This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 097 / Divorce Rehab with Wendy Sterling

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Many of us have been socialized to believe that our worth and our value is tied up in whether or not we get married. In our quest to get our ‘happily ever afters’, and in our attempt to live up to societal expectations, we often ignore the red flags, and because of this far too many women (and men) find themselves in unfulfilling marriages. So what do you do? How do you know when to keep fighting for the marriage or when to start fighting for the opportunity for something better? And if you make the decision that divorce is the best choice, how do you get through this extremely tough experience? I’ve asked Wendy Sterling to be my guest and to share both from her personal experience, and as the creator of the Divorce R.E.H.A.B program, who’s helped thousands of women reclaim their identity, heal and transform their lives. She’s also the host of The Divorced Woman's Guide Podcast and is passionate about helping women get unstuck so that they can design the life they choose. It will always be true that you are the decider of what’s right for you. But in all choices, I hope that you prioritize the love for yourself as just as important as the love you feel for another. Even if it means going it alone at times, or for as long as it takes to find somebody worthy of holding your hand and being on the journey with you. That is Woman’s Work. Here's Wendy’s downloadable guide around How To Manifest The Life You Want from the abundance mindset. You can follow Wendy on IG @divorcerehabwithwendy. You can learn more about her work at www.wendysterling.net To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com

Here's a sneak peek of what you're in store for on this episode of This Is Woman's Work. You have the opportunity, right, to just put a pin in the life that you have been living and figure out what is it that you want. I am Nicole Kalil, and I'm going to kick off this episode of This Is Woman's Work by issuing a public service announcement, because this episode is definitely going to press some buttons and ruffle some feathers. Our topic today is divorce. And I know even the word divorce already triggered some big feelings. I'm going to take it

one step further and tell you that both myself and my guest believe that divorce can be a good choice and also can be an incredibly empowering experience. And because I'm going to lay it all out there knowing full well that I'm going to get some nasty messages, I'll share that I don't think divorce is the problem. I think marriage is. Now, before your trigger figures start typing me hate mail, let me explain myself. Here are the facts. In 2022, the divorce rate is approximately 44% in the United States. Almost half of all marriages in this country will end in divorce. And of the half that stay married, about a third of those are unhappy relationships. And sure, you could argue that they gave up too soon or should have gone to therapy or living in sin or a week or whatever you

want to make up about it. But I'd argue that half of marriages shouldn't have even happened in the first place. And divorce seems inevitable. Because as women, we've been socialized to believe that our worth and our value is tied up in whether or not somebody chooses to commit to loving us via marriage and inviting everybody we know to witness this validation that we have been chosen. Because in our quest and angst to get to the altar, to have our weddings and our happily ever afters, we often ignore the red flags, the signs, how we even ignore the flashing red danger alarm equipped with some screaming sirens and get out now messages. And because of this, far too many women and men are finding themselves in unfulfilling marriages.

So what do you do? How do you know when to keep trying, when to keep fighting for the marriage or when to start fighting for yourself and the opportunity for something better? And if, or when you make the decision that divorce is the best choice, how do you go through what can be an extremely tough experience? I've asked Wendy

Sterling to be my guest and to share both from her personal experience and as the creator of the Divorce Rehab Program, who has helped thousands of women reclaim their identity, heal, and transform their lives. She's also the host of the Divorced Women's Guide podcast and is passionate about helping women get unstuck so that they can design the life they choose. Wendy, thank you so much for being here today. I would love to ask you to start by sharing your story and what led you to creating the divorce rehab.

I know for many of us, our pain often becomes our purpose. So give us some insight into how you got here. Sure. Well, it's lovely to be here, Nicole, and thank you for inviting me to have this conversation with you and your audience. And I'm always very transparent in my story because I know that anyone listening is going to see themselves in some way, shape, or form through what I'm about to share. So first, let me start out by saying that I do believe that divorce can be the most empowering experience that we go through to reclaim our identity and voice, to design that

life that we choose instead of feeling stuck with the one our ex left us with. And my story starts with happily married Wendy, you know, married my college sweetheart. And we were married for 15 years, have two beautiful boys at the time. They were seven and 10. My now ex-husband and I were very focused on our careers. We were also very focused on our children. And even though we had been in couples therapy and individual therapy, unfortunately, that wasn't enough to prevent my world coming and crashing down around me very unexpectedly one night in August of 2016. And I remember the day as though it were yesterday, not because I am still dwelling on it, but because when we go through major life transitions, those are moments that are just scarred for life. And so we were driving home from a couple's night out.

It was very late at night. I live in Los Angeles. And so we were, you know, it was a beautiful evening. Windows were down, even though it was late at night, music was playing and, you know, it was almost midnight and all of a sudden the phone rang and it was a female colleague of his and it didn't just ring once. It rang five times. And I remember getting this punch to my gut saying something about this doesn't feel right.

And after the third call that he didn't pick up, I looked at him and I said, I don't understand why she's calling you this late at night. And his comment to me was, oh, well, she probably got into a fight with her boyfriend. And I looked at him and I said, but why is she calling you? And he didn't have a good reason. And so we got home and, you know, he just refused to engage with me about the topic. And I remember going to the gym the next morning. And while I was there, I tend to get a lot of clarity when I work out, if anyone can relate to that. And I remember coming home and looking at him and, you know, telling my boys to go upstairs. And I asked to see his phone and

he refused. And I just got this overpowering feeling that he needed to leave. And so I essentially kicked him out of the house and came to find out that my worst fear came true because he had left his iPad and I did some digging. And I, it was one of those moments that I said to myself, number one, how did I get here? Number two, I thought we were working on our problems. And number three, this is not what a divorced woman looks like. Divorce doesn't happen to people, quote unquote, like me. And yes, I thought I was better than, and I thought that divorce happened to people who weren't me. And here I was, you know, the last couple that any of our friends would have ever suspected to get divorced or separated.

Here I was. And I remember looking at myself in the mirror and going, who are you? You know, understand that I had a successful 20-year career in corporate America. I thought I was a really great mom. I was an amazing daughter or sister, you name it. But all of a sudden, I just lost Wendy. And my divorce was that wake-up call for me to say, when did you lose yourself? When did you stop being you?

When did you stop caring about what you want and what feels right to you? So first, Wendy, thank you for sharing your story. And as you were talking, it kind of kept popping up in my mind how sometimes people say, you know, they took the easy way out. And let's be clear and upfront. The divorce is never easy. No, it's the hard way. It is the hard, and it is an incredibly hard decision to come to.

So I'm curious, knowing what you know today, after having gone through it with the benefit of hindsight, is there anything that you would go back and tell yourself back then? I've thought about this a lot and I've answered this question a lot as well. You know, here's how I'll answer it. Okay. I believe that we are, we see what we want to see. And when we're ready to see something different is when sometimes we get whacked upside the head by the universe. As I always say, I got whacked upside the head by a two by four because I, I stopped listening to my intuition. And if I went back to that night, what I would tell my younger self was that my ex-husband

and, you know, we're very good friends now, but he, he was really, he thought he was really good at the smoke and mirrors. And I chose to not pay attention to the holes, the gaps and to not question things. And yes, I gave us a year, we separated for a year. And I really wish that I would have told myself to end it sooner than I did. There were a couple of moments where I kept saying, I got to stay for the kids. I got to fight for my kids. I don't want my boys to have parents that are divorced. No one in either side of our family was divorced. And I

just, it was the last thing I wanted. And I stayed, I stayed separated longer because I was fighting for my kids. And what I would tell myself is that ultimately it's not about what's best for my kids and to sacrifice myself in the process. What is best for my kids is their mom happy, their mom feeling, you know, good about herself, their, their mom being respected. And I stayed in our marriage too long. I stayed separated too long because I, you know, part of me too, is that I'm a person that I can't live with regret. And I would have wondered, I would have looked back and gone, well, what would have happened if, and the one positive thing that I want to also go back and tell myself is I'm really proud of you for making sure that you were making the right choice for everybody concerned. However, I knew, I knew, you know, probably eight months into our separation that it was over.

And I just didn't, I wasn't ready yet. And that's okay. And, you know, things happen for a reason. Timing happens for a reason. I'm not pro-divorce. What I learned was I'm happy what makes you happy, what brings you peace, what brings you joy. And if divorce is that choice, fantastic. If it means fighting for your marriage and putting the work in, which I would have done, had he been on that same path, I would have fought for that too. But ultimately what was best for me was the choice that I dreaded making. And it just, it took, it took me a little bit longer and that's okay. Yeah. It's really interesting as you're talking. I ask this question often to people, what would you go back and tell your younger self? And if you take even just the topic of divorce out of it, we all say very similar

things and myself included, I would tell myself to trust my gut, to trust my instinct. I would tell myself to do more of what brings you joy and happiness. I would think I was thinking about doing sooner. It's really interesting how there is a commonality there. Okay. So you said this and I agree completely. It is a personal choice and it's not for anyone else to make. No. Having said that, do you have any thoughts? You work with women in this space all the time. Do you have any thoughts about knowing when it is the right choice for yourself? Yeah.

You know, I do work with women who are in that place of, should I stay or should I go? And it's not, uh, it's not a decision that anyone should make based on, you know, uh, a one minute thought. Um, you know, the process that I support my clients in is really figuring out who it is that they are today. Um, what it is that, you know, the, the life experiences that they have had, both individually and in their marriages, who has, how has that impacted who they are in this moment? Who is it that they want to be moving forward? What is the vision of the life that they want to create? In that, figuring out if their partner is the right person for them to be on that path with. You know, a lot of what the women who come to me need support in is really remembering what their voice sounds like. Remembering who it is that they are and learning how to not be manipulated into a choice that isn't fully theirs. And so a lot of what I support them

with is that mindset work, right? Is really taking a step back and to stop being on autopilot, which we've all been on. I mean, I was on autopilot for decades and really just taking a step back and slowing down because many times we just act without thinking, or we respond without thinking, or we react many times we just react. And so a lot of what I support them with is really figuring out like, what is the life that you want? Like you have a, you have the opportunity right. To just put a pin in the life that you have been living and figure out what is it that you want. And it's never done without like giving your partner the opportunity to, to join you, right? I'm all about, give them a chance, like see if they are doing the work themselves,

but you can't force other people to be somebody that you want them to be. They have to want to be the best version of themselves. And many times it's not a dual decision. Usually one person is doing the work while the other one thinks that there's nothing wrong with them. And, you know, I'm not saying that there isn't the possibility that, you know, maybe somebody out there is lucky and their partner is doing the work with them. And I know many colleagues who, you know, maybe somebody out there is lucky and their partner is doing the work with them. And I know many colleagues who, you know, whose spouses have done that work. I actually know two colleagues whose marriages got saved because their partners invested. They were, they were in it with them. And I think that that's beautiful. That is the rarity. It just is. And it is also, you know,

my mindset when I go into work with these women is not like, oh yeah, you're headed to divorce. I'm literally holding space for what do you want? Yeah. What do you want? And is this person, is their vision for what they want the same as what your vision is. That's it. So tell us a little bit about the five steps in your divorce rehab program. I know in a 30 minute podcast, you could not possibly tell us everything you would need to know, but if you could give us, yeah, I can break it down. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. It's an acronym. So it's an easy breakdown, hopefully for everybody listening. So rehab is the acronym for the five steps. So the R is about reclaiming your identity and voice.

And the way that we do that is really honing in on and digging deep into what your values are and ultimately creating boundaries for yourself and everyone in your life, including your children and your family and your friends around what those values are. And from there, we go into the E, which is ending your pity party and victim mindset. And the way that we do that is really identifying those negative inner critic voices and separating them from your inner wisdom, which typically sounds a little quieter. And you don't necessarily pay as close attention to them, but it's really about taking ownership of your story, taking ownership and responsibility for your part. And a lot of that also involves, you know, overcoming the fears that you have on the,

you know, the fear of the unknown is the number one fear that I coach through with all of my clients when they're trying to end that pity party, because they stay in it because they think it's safe, right? But it's what's perpetuating their fears. And I teach them how it is that they can learn to love themselves again. And by doing so, we enter the H, which is all about healing your wounds. Now, when you get divorced, it's not just mourning your marriage. You're mourning the loss of the family, the financial security, the dreams, growing old together, your best friend.

There's so many aspects that you don't understand when you go through divorce. So the way that we heal those wounds is really starting with that self-love piece. And from there, we really hone in on learning what self-care looks like. Many of us have to share custody, whatever that percentage looks like, and really how do we use that time to love on ourselves, to really take care of ourselves, to build back our self-worth and our self-esteem so that we can emerge from this feeling confident in a way that doesn't depend on external resources. And then from there, we move into the A, which is all about acceptance and accountability. So accepting where it is that you are, accepting your role. And in order to do that, you have to have accountability for your role in your marriage

falling apart. Now, you are not a failure. Your marriage failed. And it takes two people, two people to make a marriage work. Now, I do not take responsibility for the choice that my ex-husband made. What I do take responsibility for are the choices that I made and how I showed up, right? I picked fights.

I tried to get attention. I would have conversations in my head and then all of a sudden blow up at him and he's like, whoa, where, like, what is this, right? So it's not until you take accountability and it's different than ownership, taking accountability, holding yourself accountable and making sure that you're not going to make these choices moving forward. Right. And that's where the self-forgiveness

comes in. And I actually spend a lot of time with my clients on that because my clients are like me. It was the hardest part of my healing process was understanding forgiveness. And a lot of that comes in the form of gratitude, self-compassion, and mindfulness. And I teach my clients how to do those things so that they can step into a place where they can wind up with the B in rehab, which is building that new foundation, right? What are you not going to tolerate anymore moving forward? What will you tolerate? What is it that you desire? What is it that you want from, you know, your next life that you're not going to back down on moving forward? Wendy, one of the things that kept standing out to me is my area, my passion is around confidence. And everything that you said in your five-step process in the acronym of rehab aligns completely with everything I know to be true about how we build our confidence, how we trust ourselves, listening to that small, sometimes quiet voice of intuition and how we begin to trust ourselves again.

You didn't need my endorsement by any means. I'll take it. I will tell you that just it is great to see how in the work of helping people navigate through a very tough decision and a very hard time. You're doing the things that I know will build their confidence as women, as humans. So incredible stuff there. I have heard the expression, and it kind of made sense to me that a lot of most marriages, problems are more of a slow leak versus a flat tire. Like very rarely does a marriage end because of one huge event. It's typically a compounding of a lot of. So I guess my question is any advice

about how to maybe address some of those things before they become unsalvageable or before you get to a place where divorce might be the only option. And I get that there are definitely times where that is the only and best option, but just any thoughts there? You know, what I have come to realize, not just with myself, but with all the women that I'm truly privileged to get to know and to work with, is the common thread around why most marriages wind up going down the divorce path is because communication has broken down, period. And that's on both sides, right? Both partners get to take responsibility for poor communication. And I know that there were conversations that I avoided. I'm sure my ex-husband would say he avoided them too. You know, we just, it was almost like we just put

it away in the closet, hoping that it would just disintegrate and we would get through it. But I was really, I didn't have those hard conversations. I was really, it's funny because most of my clients are afraid to have those hard conversations. And yet that typically those hard conversations that you avoided are the reason why your marriage is now coming to an end. And so the biggest thing that I can tell people, and it's one of the things, I mean, it's why I'm now in the best relationship of my life with my boyfriend. And, you know, we have an open communication policy where we get to talk about anything and everything, and the other person doesn't have to like the topic or doesn't have to like that person's

feelings, but we get to hold space for what it is that they're experiencing and committing to moving forward. I have this saying, and I learned this in a leadership program that I did about two years ago, two and a half years ago. And it's this, you know, you get to have a 10 out of 10 in every area of your life, including your relationships, whether that is with a, with your spouse, with your boyfriend, with a future partner, with your kids, with your family, with your friends. I always strive to have a 10 out of 10.

Now that doesn't mean that I'm always at a 10. What it means is that if I'm at a seven or I'm at a six, I get to figure out what's in that gap, right? What's preventing us from getting back to that 10. And I get to have conversations with the people in my life that I love to figure out like, what is in that gap? How do we get back to that 10? And it's not about accusing the other person, right? So many times we speak from the you, right? Pointing the finger instead of the, I am, I feel, and I would highly, highly, highly advise anybody to start communicating from the, I feel instead of you make me, you this. No, absolutely not. The other person doesn't have that power. You're giving them that power.

It's I feel this when, right? I feel unseen. I feel unheard. How can we connect? How can we work through this, right? And allowing what your partner tells you to just be neutral information, not polarized, positive or negative, but just neutral and figuring out how it is that you can get back to that. You know, by the time my ex-husband and I were in couples therapy for three years before I discovered his infidelity. Okay. And I know that he had checked out even before we started couples therapy. And I knew when he checked out, like I it's interesting. Cause like, I look back and I've even said this to him, like five years before we separated was my last memory of us actually feeling intimacy and connection. And after that, it was just gone.

And that was, you know, and two years later is when therapy started, but I knew that I had lost him before. And I wish that I had had the courage to have more productive conversations with him because I'm not saying that our relationship would be better, would be different. We would have separated early. We would have been divorced earlier. I think we both would have grown. I know that I would have learned a lot more. And I also would have learned that I didn't have a vocabulary of emotion. I really didn't. I had like four words and now I have a whole plethora of words that I get to choose from of my feelings. But don't be afraid to have the

hard conversation because when it's too late, it doesn't matter anymore. It just doesn't. So Wendy, I couldn't agree more. Communication. You hear this in every relationship, right? Communication is key, but I really like the lens of, I'm going to call it responsible communication because how you communicate is important as communicating. I think sometimes we think, well, I screamed that at them and I told them and it's like, well, well, they shut down. Right. Yeah.

Like defensive. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and, and I know like anytime I looked at him and I point, you know, he felt a finger pointed, boom, didn't even take anything in after that. Right. And I'm so much better now. You know, I tell my boyfriend, I'm like, man, if you knew me, you know, six years ago, it's like, I'm a different,

I'm a different person and how it is that I communicate. And I feel so seen and heard now. And I'm like, God, if I had known this so much earlier, like all the areas of my life, right. But it's not about looking back and going, God, what if it's, thank God I learned this now. Thank God I know what to do moving forward. And I don't live my life in the rear view mirror. I look, you know, I'm always looking straight ahead and, and always, we're always learning. We're always transforming. It's never over, you know, and I want people to also understand that like when you're going through this healing process of divorce, it's not like, you know, I'm sitting here healed and nothing impacts me anymore.

Like I still have tough days. I still have moments that I feel, you know, the wound opening up a little bit. You know, my ex-husband, he's remarried. He has a two and a half year old daughter. You know, there's a whole new family forming and there's sensitivities that are still raw for me that every day I'm like, okay, new emotion. We're going to navigate this. Right.

But it's about knowing how it's about having the tools to be able to not make the same mistakes and to allow yourself to really feel through whatever it is that comes up. Yeah. Thank you for your transparency and for doing this very important work. And thank you for being here today. Thank you. Um, if you are listening and you want to connect with Wendy or learn more about her work, you can check out her website at wendysterling.net. Uh, you can find her on Instagram and Facebook at Divorce Rehab with Wendy. Check out her podcast, The Divorced Woman's Guide.

And in show notes, we're going to put all that information plus a free downloadable guide to manifest the life you want. Thank you, Wendy, for sharing that. Sure. Okay. I came in pretty hot on this topic. So let me end by saying as a married woman, I can't think of anything I'm more grateful for than being married to Jay.

But I'll also be upfront that my marriage has been really the easiest thing I've ever done. And it's not for me to decide anyone else's choices or to have opinions about anyone else's relationships, which I often have to remind myself of. It will always be true that you are the decider of what's right for you. But in all choices, I wish, I hope that you choose from love for yourself and you prioritize that

at least as important as the love you feel for another. I hope you choose from abundance, from what's the biggest and best possibility for your one precious life. And I know that we're not meant to go it alone. So go with somebody who makes you, who makes life better. Even if it means going it alone at times or for as long as it takes to find somebody worthy of holding your hand and being on the journey with you. That is woman's work.