This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 120 / Success Mindset with Melissa Froehlich

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

I don’t know about you but I am f#*!ing tired of the outdated, one sided definition of success that is all wrapped up in position and profit. On today’s episode I invite you to redefine success on your own terms. Here to help us think through that is Melissa Froehlich - sought after business strategist, mentor and certified mindset coach - who works predominantly with women business owners who are looking to build not only profitable businesses, but ones that bring freedom and fulfillment. What if income is just one piece of the success puzzle? What does success mean to you? What does your life look like? How do you feel? Where do you spend your days and who do you spend them with? Only you have the answer, but knowing your answer is necessary. Listen in here for part 2 of this conversation on Melissa’s podcast, The UpLevel Lounge. To learn more about Melissa you can visit her website at: melissafroelich.com To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com. Get your copy of Validation Is For Parking.

Hey you, have you reviewed the This Is Woman's Work podcast on Apple Podcasts yet? Your reviews help us get bigger and better guests, so I need your support. You can write a quick review or just tap the five stars, please and thank you. I don't know about you, but I'm freaking tired of this outdated one-sided definition of success that says if you make six figures or a million dollars or $10 million, that that equals success. By the way, the numbers change depending on the circle of people you're talking to. I'm sick of this idea that success is all wrapped up in position and profit. And at the risk of offending some people, I get completely turned off when people boast, brag, or overshare about their income or take pictures in their money baths. I have nothing

against money. I'm just tired of the messaging that money equals success and that the more of it you have, the happier you'll be. I am Nicole Kalil, and on this episode of This Is Woman's Work, I'm going to invite you to redefine success on your own terms. And I'm sure an element of that will likely include income or lifestyle, but if the answer to what success is isn't just about making more, if it isn't always about chasing your best year ever, if it isn't about doubling your income or 50% growth or making up an arbitrary number like a million dollars without considering what that number actually means to you or the experience you're actually looking to create, then how does money, income, or profit fit into your definition of success? Here to help think through this is Melissa Froelich,

sought-after business strategist, mentor, and certified mindset coach who works predominantly with women business owners who are looking to build not only profitable businesses, but ones that also bring freedom and fulfillment. Melissa and I met on a women's retreat and instantly bonded over a discussion about giving ourselves permission to not want the seven-figure business if it meant longer hours or harder work. Like if I can make seven figures while having it be super freaking easy, sure, sign us up. But we're tired of always feeling like we need to make more or do more in order to feel successful. Melissa, I'm so glad we're finally getting

to have this conversation while we're recording because it was so refreshing for me to find somebody who is just as over that messaging as I am and somebody who kind of gave me permission to think about this differently. So thank you for being here. I'm excited to get into this. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Okay. So let's start with how do you define success for you? So I feel like this is a fairly recent revelation as in the past year and a half in terms of being really clear on how I personally define success. I think the most important thing is that

it's mine, right? It's my definition. I realized that I was using a whole bunch of different filters that were other people's to come to my definition of success. And so therefore it wasn't mine. So how I define success now is so much more aligned for me. It really goes back to my core values and the why I created this business to begin with. My husband is active duty military. I gave up my corporate career and it was really important for me to build something that both fulfilled me professionally and had the freedom and flexibility to go wherever the military decides to send us. So it was really that balance, but it all came back to the freedom piece, right? On so many levels. And what I was realizing is I was sucking

up this definition of success about money, money, money, money, because that's what I was surrounded by like the next level and the next level and the next level. And so I finally don't do that anymore. And I define success now by how do I feel and what do I need in this season of my life? Knowing that my definition of success is not static. It's not a definition that is written in stone and it's ever evolving. So right now in this season of my life, success looks like having margin in my calendar and in my schedule to spend time with my five-year-old daughter and to be able to travel and to be able to go and get a pedicure once every two weeks, things that I didn't make time to do before.

Cause I was always working, working, working, but enjoying my life is a big piece of my definition of success. And it's really measured by how do I feel in my body? Right. And is this mine? Am I living true to myself and by how do I feel in my body, right? And is this mine? Am I living true to myself? And how much do I need? And again, coming back to what feels good.

So my definition of success is very, very different from many people and certainly different from my clients. But I really think that we all need to give ourselves that permission to let it be personal, let it be unique, and let it be evolving. So many good things in there. Ironic, you brought up talking about a season of your life. I had a coaching call with my coach yesterday, and we talked about the fact that I feel like I'm entering a new different season.

And I don't really know what that means yet. And I don't totally have it defined, but I'm so appreciative that you reminded us that this definition of success is a, is an evolving thing. And it might be dependent on the season of life that we're in or what's most important to us. So I'm going to ask the question because I know I'd be curious if I were listening in, do you have an income or lifestyle or number associated with this current level of success? And then how do you factor that in? How does that evolve and grow too? I love this question. So the answer is ish. So what I mean by that is last year, right before you and I met, I was really clear myself that permission to look at things differently. I mean, like quite literally, I remember the moment we had the conversation.

I remember it so distinctly. And it was like, I saw myself and like, yes, holy cow. And I, this person gets me like it was, there's very few people in the world that you have that instant bond with. And we truly had that. And okay. So all of that you have that instant bond with. And we truly had that. And okay. So all of that to say that changed the number, meaning I realized that to get to that number was entirely possible. The number that I had set last year, it was entirely possible,

but at what expense, that's what I started honing in on. And I realized that I was going to have to work more and that I was going to need to hire more team and all of these things. And then I really got honest about, is that what I want? Is that in alignment with who I am and what I'm about my core values? And the answer was no, no, no, no, no, no. income goal to be sustaining what we'd already created because it was freaking more than enough. It was more than I had ever imagined being able to do. And in this season of life, like this is success to me. And I wanted to hold onto that. So I changed the fascination of the money piece from being about more to being about sustaining. And so it's really about staying at this half a million in gross revenue a year, because the bar that I had set last year was 850,000. It was written out in my goal sheet. It was part of everything. And I remember telling the team like scratch that, that is not what's important. If we get there with incredible ease, fabulous, but I am not

willing to work harder, more spend more money. Like we've created something amazing. So, yeah. I hope those people who are listening are having the same experience that I did back then. And I'm having again right now is it's like so refreshing, you know, this thing that we have, like you said, ambitious driven people, it's like, got to have the best year ever have to beat last year, have to, you know. So talk to us about having a growth mindset while also being focused on sustaining. So like I could imagine some people listening in are like, but I want to grow. I want to be better.

It's like, I know you, you are growth oriented. So how do you kind of handle this? What could feel like a paradox of being growth oriented, having a growth mindset and also giving yourself permission to just sustain and not have a bigger number. Yeah. So I love that. A growth mindset is such an important piece of my own work, my personal work on myself, and then what I do with clients, because it's often overlooked. It's often something that we tell ourselves isn't for us yet, or it's for them and not for me. And in fact, it's totally for you.

And so the thing about this growth mindset is what does growth look like in all the different layers of your life, right? So although I'm not fascinated at the moment with growing my revenue, I'm growing the amount of joy, the amount of self-care, the amount of quality time with my daughter, the amount of just synergy with my team and the quality of work I'm able to do with my clients and the creative energy that's flowing through all of these qualitative things that are really hard to measure unless we are aware of it, unless we're changing our mindset to say that we also can give a lot of honor to these other parts of our business. We have been so trained and indoctrinated into the effort. Our success is measured by how much energetic

effort or how much growth we have in our bank account. And like, that's simply not true. Like what else is important to you? How else do you measure how you've evolved? What is the amount of growth that's happened in terms of your emotional intelligence, right? Your self-leadership, all of these things. So although I'm not concerned with growth in terms of my bank account, exponential growth, and like you, I love money and I want to make money

and it provides so many incredible opportunities, but it's the alignment piece, right? I need all of these other things to also be in alignment because guess what will happen? My bank account will continue to grow. So that's where the interesting piece is. When we are only focused on the money, money, money, and all of the other parts, the holistic parts of our business and our person are neglected. We're not focused on the growth there. We start getting into that like push and that masculine energy, and it becomes the only thing. And it's this interesting thing that when we back off of that and focus on all these other parts and becoming a healthier,

happier, more aligned version of ourselves, the money also grows. No, it's so, it's so interesting. I think we all know of people who are uber successful. I put in air quotes financially, right? Like they make crap tons of money or they have like highest level position and they are miserable. Or at the very least you look at their life and you're like, I wouldn't be excited about being divorced four times and not having a relationship with my children and having people think I'm a horrible human. It's like, yes, you can focus on the fascination or the obsession with money and growth and that, but at what cost? And that's, I think where we were commiserating over. Exactly that at what cost. So if I had chosen to just go, go, go after the next level and next level, cause we would, we would have hit three quarters of a million this year, totally

strategically possible. And I have the energy to make it happen. Then I would be like, okay, a million on deck for next year, but guess what would have happened? I would have been a much less happy, healthy, and present mom to my child. And so what is it all for if we're constantly burning ourselves out for chasing that, that number on the bank account? And I realized how influenced I was by watching so many other people, like you were saying at the beginning of this episode, show screenshots of their bank account. That is a really like trauma based way of selling. And I think that it can be really inspiring when it's done from a place of inspiration, but when that's your only measure of success, like that's really,

really unhealthy, right? Because there are so many other parts to being successful and growing like we're talking about. Yeah. Okay. You mentioned sort of masculine energy. And I know both of us naturally have masculine energy and characteristics and we're decisive and ambitious and all of that stuff. And we're not by any means saying that hard

work or grit or grind doesn't play a part. And you mentioned seasons earlier. So my question is what part did grit, grind and hard work play in your success? Or was there a season where that was appropriate? So let's start there. How do you feel about grit, grind and hard work? Well, first of all, I want to start with like, if you don't, if you don't come and look at both Nicole and I, like we could be sisters, but also probably like twins in the sense of the way that we approach things. And it really was like finding my person when I met her. So yes, I can speak to this very well. I can roll up my sleeves and get it done any day of the week, right? So grit grind, just incredible work ethic. That's how I started my business. I didn't

know anything about the online space. I stumbled into it after a lot of failed attempts to get another corporate job. And I just figured it out. I leaned into the grit piece and that's what got me started. And I'm grateful for that. But what was interesting was learning that there was a different way, learning that there was this thing called feminine energy or leaning back and allowing all of the strategy and processes that I had built to work for me. Right. So truly the hardest work is to like sit in what I've built and to trust the process, but it's important work. And I will never lose that ability to access the grit and the hustle, call it what you may. Like I actually have a real problem with all of the hustle shaming that happens out there. I don't think that hustling as a constant is good. That is not what I'm saying, but kind of, we've, we've talked about it in a way that makes people feel shame if they hustle. And I think a little bit of hustle is necessary and it's good, right? That's how like I springboard to the next level. So it's being very, very aware of

the balance or the harmony, right? I don't think that there's anything like a work-life balance and we achieve it and we're going to hang out there, but making sure that I'm not tipping the boat on either side. So learning more about who I am and how I'm designed and how do I support myself better as an individual and a leader? And truly this came up this year at a, at a conference, somebody said like, what's your number one, like business growth hack right now. And I was like eating more protein, like what, but I'm serious. This whole year has been really, really devoted to getting my health back on track and prioritizing moving my body. And I was grossly under consuming protein because I was hustling all the time and working

because that's what's comfortable for me. I am good at this. I can control this. And so really being careful to look at where am I leaning into my natural tendency to go forward with that masculine energy, which is incredibly important, which is why we're so freaking good at the strategy and figuring things out and building strong foundations. But how do we also blend in this other part that isn't as natural to us because we want that harmony. That's the goal. Yeah.

I mean, again, you're always speaking my language. It's for us, the masculine side is actually easier and more comfortable a little bit because of, well, maybe a lot because of natural tendencies, but at least part of it too, is the environments in which we birthed our professional lives from corporate tends to lean more masculine. And so we were probably acknowledged, recognized, promoted and all of those things. And so for me, the hardest part is honoring, accessing the feminine, because I agree with you, balance might not be the right word. I like harmony, but this work for the sake of working, this wearing your hard work, like a badge of honor person last out.

It just doesn't appeal to me anymore. And maybe it's because of the season, but I agree with you. There was a season where grit grind and hard work was not only necessary, but integral and getting me to the point we are today. Right. Totally. And one little thing to add there, I am studying, um, pretty in-depth human design and gene keys right now, and I'm a generator. And so this is a big part of why I have been such a goer and a doer all my life, but that doesn't mean that I should just do because I can, because I can, I can out work anyone, but the work for me personally right now is figuring out the right way to use my energy

so that I don't burn out. And so there's been so many times where I've been working just because that's what I feel like I need to do. So getting the need out of my system and allowing some of the desire to come in and help lead that, which then causes me to sit back. I have to be more in that feminine flow and not push, right? Because I can make stuff happen. And you're like nodding your head and you're like, yeah, but how do we also sit back and allow, right? That was my word of the year this year. And it's been an uncomfortable one, but so important

because I want to control everything. I want to have a plan for it. And that's part of being an entrepreneur and a leader is being able to also navigate through allowing what we've created to work for us and not have to constantly be maneuvering and massaging every single piece of it. Yeah, you're speaking my language.

And I personally needed to hear this, especially at this time we're recording this, you know, kind of towards the end of 2022, which is the normal time where I would be like strategy, business planning, reevaluate, set up the forms and the processes. And, um, I'm, I, this is the first year I'm having a vision and I am having goals, but I think maybe allow might be the word of the year for me for 2023. But just really, you said earlier, and I love the word trusting and letting things flow. So obviously hard work, grit and grind plays a part.

But if we think about redefining success from your lens, what else would you suggest that contributes to success outside of just grit, grind, and hard work? I know you're big on mindset, so that might be some of it, but like if you had to, you know, give some ideas as people are rethinking success of what contributes to it, what would you hone in on? So right now for me, like what I'm super passionate about, and I feel like I've been talking about this 24 seven, but it's, it's really the culmination of years of seeing patterns in the women that I work with and like, what is the missing link? And I, I'm like, okay, it's not knowing ourselves enough. So if you can do anything for yourself, get to know who you are

as an individual, right? We have soaked up so many beliefs, some of which we were born with a lot of how we were raised where relationships, all the things, right? And we have all of these filters that we process information through many of which are not our own or no longer service. So how do we get back to who we are? So some of the tools that I would suggest, because people are always like, well, where do I start with that? Find something that's exciting to you. Some of my favorites are the Enneagram, looking at your human design, whatever kind of sparks a little bit of joy in you, but like, how are you meant to function in this life? And then from there, are you building a business that's in alignment with that, that it truly honors that?

And what do you want? What is it that you're striving to create? What would feel really good to you and nobody else? Like take a detox from social media for 30 days. Try that. Don't look at what anybody else is doing. What do you really want to do? And the more I know myself, the more I shift things in my business, rearrange my approaches, goals, whatever the things are, but truly like those pieces have been integral in terms of my own transformation, how I look at

success in the past couple of years. In terms of how you are functioning in your business, look at something like the Colby or the disc, right? There are so many different things, but what I want to say about all of those things I just mentioned, those are all lenses, right? They're all different layers for awareness. They do not define you 100%. One assessment, one study of something is not, I have to change myself to fit into the thing. It's meant to say, Ooh, what can I learn about myself? And how am I creating a business that supports me, that supports my lifestyle? So really asking yourself,

is this business another job for me? Is this business allowing me to live the lifestyle I want? And the answer is probably gonna be some degree of, not really. The good news is, and this is where the growth mindset comes in, you can change that. So being willing to get curious, be vulnerable with yourself and

learn who you are. And this ties back to what you mentioned earlier for many of us coming from corporate, like that was for the C-suite leaders to work on who they were in terms of their self leadership and their leadership DNA. No, that is for you. That is for you right now. Get to know yourself. That will change things in such a powerful way. And it doesn't cost you anything. Like you can consume all of this content in podcasts and, you know, Instagram feeds, like, but choose one thing, dive in for a little bit and get curious about yourself. I couldn't agree more. My definition of confidence is when you know who you are, own who you're not and choose to embrace all of them. And this is what we're talking about here. And that really, that first part, the knowing who

we are, it's shocking to me as women, how much we don't know because we're so others focused all the time and we're so freaking busy all the time. And so I think what's happened is there's been a disconnect from ourselves. And I couldn't agree more without advice to spend some time reconnecting and really getting to know who you are. There was a quote that says something to the effect of whatever makes you feel the sun from the inside, chase that. I just, I mean, I love it. So I'm curious your thoughts on this. When we talk about development, self-development or growth mindset or growing or anything like that, I've found a lot of women have a habit of focusing on their weaknesses and trying to turn them into their strengths. One of the shifts I've made in the last couple of years is focusing on my strengths and really

growing and developing and doubling down on those. So like, I'm aware of my weaknesses. I want to make sure they're not a problem, but I've sort of bought into this idea that my weaknesses are probably never going to become my strengths and I should delegate and leverage or, or, you know, again, make sure they're not barriers, but to become better at what I'm meant for, or to double down on these things that are already my strengths. Curious your opinion there. Yes. Like a full body yes to that on every single level. And, you know, I, I'm curious what I would have said if you asked me this two years ago, right? Like, but absolutely 100%. Yes. And that is where getting to know yourself and looking at how are you literally designed to operate? What are your strengths

leaning into that? I'm not meant to be an expert at everything, right? That is not how any of us are designed. So asking yourself questions that are so liberating and empowering when you start to do this, who can do this better and faster than I can? That's one of my favorites, right? I can figure out how to design something in Canva, but by golly, I should never spend my time doing that. I am never going to be an incredible graphic designer. Would that be cool? And would I love it? Yes. Right. But saying like, that's not one of my strengths. Like I need to outsource that. So it comes back to all different layers, but that's one of the things that I love to help people understand when we're

working together is like, okay, let's look at all the things that you're doing in your business and what you actually should be doing and what we should really be giving to somebody else. Right. That's just one layer of it. But yes, yes, yes. We have gifts and we are diluting them if we're trying to be good at all the things. And that really, you know, that's tied into so many layers. I feel like we could talk about this forever. That's the woman in us and being very maternal and trying to fix everything and make everything work. And it's like, no, the more empowered you get about saying this is me. And this isn't in terms of my strengths. Like that's, that's confidence. Like that is being very, that's, it's liberating. It truly is. It really is. Shockingly. So like, I didn't know that saying no or saying I'm not good at that, or that's not meant for me. I didn't know how freaking good that would feel until I started

doing it because I was a default. Yes. Person. I was a, you know, Oh, I have so much capacity. I can take on everything kind of person, right. Doer and all that. We're running tight on time and I have a bazillion other questions and I know like we're doing a pod swap for those of you listening in. So I'm going to go on Melissa's podcast right after this. So I hope we can continue some of this conversation, but I wanted to ask one more thing while I have you, what part does coaches, other outside resources, masterminds, women's groups, I've often said I never did any women's oriented things until like five or six years ago. And I missed the mark so much, but what part of all of those things do you think plays into

the creation of your definition of success as well as the actual living into it? Oh man, this is the hardest question because I struggle to articulate this well enough. I think in terms of the power of it, how transformational it is. And I'm with you that I wish I would have prioritized it sooner. I didn't start going to things in terms of my entrepreneurial journey until a couple of years ago, because I made a lot of excuses as to why it wasn't possible from, you know, I couldn't leave my daughter to the fact that I was too busy to that. I wasn't ready to be in that circle. All of which were BS really at the end of the day, when every single time I am with a group of empowered women, whether it's in a mastermind,

whether it is in a women's retreat, the sparks of inspiration, the downloads of connection, the sisterhood, the refer, like the fringe benefits of it are immeasurable, truly like this connection right here that you send me something that says, Hey, I want you to check this out, or you should meet this person. There is no question. I'm going to do that, right? Because you meet your people and you are, for me, it's like, I feel like I'm finally seen and heard in so many different ways. And when people invest to be in a group of other women, I feel like the quality of reflection that you can receive, it's so valuable because they're going to be honest and true and there's nothing for them to gain. It's not a personal gain.

They're there to give as much as they are to receive. And I've never regretted making an investment in coaching or masterminds or retreats because there is always something incredible that comes out of it. It's not always the thing that I thought it was going to be, but there's always growth and learning. Like, I'm so glad you said that last part. Cause that's true for me is often not what I thought it was going to be or in the way that I thought. So like the retreat, we went on wonderful retreat. I got so many good takeaways. There was the woman who facilitated is awesome, but the best part of the retreat for me, the life changing part of the retreat for me

was that conversation that we had on that. I mean, like you, I can remember exactly where we're standing and it just had me literally, it was like a redirect. And I've been thinking, you know, very differently since then. So, okay. If you're listening, I want to make sure you know where to find Melissa, but we're going to take this conversation onto her podcast for sort of like an ongoing part to melissafroelich.com is her website, melissafroelichbiz on Instagram. And we'll put all of this in the show notes, Melissa, anything to add about where people can find you? I think that, you know,

just know that my inbox is open on Instagram. I know that you never know in this day and age, who's going to be on the other side of it. It really is me. Um, if you have a question, if there's something in this podcast that we talked about and you want to dive deeper, I'm an open book. So I would love to hear from you and thank you so much, Nicole. And I can't wait to record phase two of this. Melissa, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm going to close this out by saying when Melissa and I met, she said something to the effect of sustainability being sexier than six figures and something inside me lit up and said, yes, like the inner knowing of me knew that that was truth. And I want you to really think about that word, sexy. Sustainability is sexier than seven figures. And I'm with you

on that unless it wants to land in my lap, right? Of course. So ultimately what I believe is Melissa is onto something that I needed to hear. So I'm going to ask you, what part does happiness, well-being, freedom, time for family, friends, hobbies, things that bring you joy, what part does all of that play in your definition of success? What part of that does that play to your success mindset? Along with income, achievement, and lifestyle, what else is important to you? What if you need to prioritize all of the things to create all of the things instead of this messaging that we hear over and over that if you prioritize income and status, that eventually you'll get the other things. Instead of checking the income box just for the sake of saying you did or one-upping your previous year

or somebody else's achievement, what if income is just a piece of the success puzzle? What does success mean to you? What does your life look like? How do you feel? Where do you spend your days and who do you spend them with? Only you have the answer, but knowing your answer is necessary

because that is woman's work.