This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 123 / Women And Competition with Diann Wingert

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

On this episode we talk about Women & Competition: Envy, Jealousy and all the other Green-Eyed Monsters. And in the spirit of supporting, collaborating, acknowledging and celebrating the talent and gifts of other women, I’ve asked a woman I admire a great deal to join me! Diann Wingert is a psychotherapist turned business strategist and coach, on a mission to help female solopreneurs with busy brains get focused, fired up and flame retardant. Host of The Driven Woman Entrepreneur Podcast, Diann does similar work with a similar audience, in similar ways as me…basically, I could see her as competition, but I don’t. I see her as inspiration, motivation, someone to collaborate with and leverage for support. A loving reminder that gossiping, judging, comparing, or jealousy will ALWAYS say more about the person doing it than the person it’s being done to. So here’s my call to action to all the women that are listening. First, stop being an asshole. Second, stop surrounding yourself with them. BOTH of those things are definitely woman’s work. To learn more about Diann and her work go to www.diannwingertcoaching.com To learn more about what we are up to outside of this podcast, visit us at NicoleKalil.com.

Hey you, have you reviewed the This Is Woman's Work podcast on Apple Podcasts yet? Your reviews help us get bigger and better guests, so I need your support. You can write a quick review or just tap the five stars. Please and thank you. While it's fair to say that I'm a pretty big supporter of women today, I also think it's important to share that I haven't always been. When I was younger, I often said and believed that I had better friendships and working relationships with the guys. And early in my career, I avoided any and all women's events or women's initiatives like the plague.

Kind of ironic if you consider that these are the things that have become my life's work today. So why did I do this? Well, I argue there were some real reasons, like not wanting to be put in the box of being a good woman leader versus just being a good leader, or knowing that the culture that I was in at the time didn't value the feminine as much as the masculine. So spending time with other women at best felt like a distraction and at worst felt like it could be career suicide. And I'd also argue that most of my reasoning was complete bullshit. And because I value truth and

transparency, I would also have to share that most of the things I was worried about, most of the reasons I avoided other women were because of the things I was doing. Things like being catty, talking shit and gossiping about other women, seeing every woman as my competition, trying to one-up each other and being super judgy about what women wore or what decisions they made in their personal lives, who they dated, how they communicated, or if they were too much of this or not enough that. Basically, I avoided women because I thought they were bigger assholes than the men. And trust me, a lot of the men in my life at that time were pretty big assholes.

But the truth is that I was the biggest asshole of them all. One of the greatest lessons, one of the things I'm most grateful for and proud of, and probably one of my life's greatest gifts, is the work that I do and the relationships I have with women. But it wasn't women that changed. It was me. I am Nicole Kalil, and on this episode of This Is Woman's Work, we're going to talk about women and competition, envy, jealousy, and all the other green-eyed monsters. In short, we're going to challenge us all to stop being assholes to other women. And in the spirit of supporting, collaborating, acknowledging, and celebrating the talent and

gifts of other women, I've asked a woman I admire a great deal to join me. Diane Winger is a psychotherapist turned business strategist and coach on a mission to help female solopreneurs with busy brains, get focused, fired up and flame retardant. Host of the Driven Woman Entrepreneur Podcast, Diane does similar work with a similar audience in similar ways as me. Basically, I could see her as competition, but I don't. I see her as inspiration, motivation, someone to collaborate with and leverage for support. I feel better about the future of our world for women because she's out there doing this very important work. All right, Diane, let's talk about some green-eyed monsters.

First of all, Nicole, what a difference a year makes. Right. Because the way you are showing up for this conversation is like chef's kiss. And it's so much more powerful because you're leveraging talking about the uncomfortable topics in a bold and powerful way. So I am so here for this. First of all, yes, I want to say that let's just start with terms because before we start getting into all the spicy stuff, there's a lot of confusion between envy and jealousy. A lot of people use them as synonyms, but they are cousins,

maybe sisters, but they are not identical. So first, what is envy? Envy is the painful feeling of wanting what someone else has. It might be the size of their bank account. It might be their title. It might be their kids. It might be their Instagram following. It could be anything. But envy is when we have pain from longing, coveting, desiring what someone else has. Jealousy is when we have something that we're afraid of losing to someone else, a spouse, a promotion, a brand. You see how people, everybody wants to trademark their stuff now because everybody's so afraid that someone's going to copy them, rip them off. So that's jealousy. I don't want to lose what I have. You see that they're closely connected, right? And this is rampant among women. Now, you and I are of different generations,

which is one of the reasons why conversations like this are so important, because most of us tend to put ourselves in echo chambers where we are only talking to people who look like us and have the same cultural references because we're around the same age. I am part of the generation of women who cracked the glass ceiling, didn't break it. A lot of us cracked our heads in the process. And part of the generation of women who flooded into the workforce in numbers for the first time and not just seeing being a wife and mother as our calling. So I've had a couple more decades of cultural conditioning than you have. And let me just tell you, I think fundamentally that's where the problem lies is in the cultural conditioning.

We've all drank the same Kool-Aid. Yeah. I think there is a lot of truth to that. I also think we're not as far apart as you might think we are. So first I want to start with the distinction of the words. I think this is so important. We throw words around far too often today without really thinking about them or distinguishing between them. So thank you for doing that. I would also say like, there's a difference about communicating about somebody versus gossiping about them or comparing yourself to somebody and feeling inspired versus judgment, or there's all these different things that we do and none of them are necessarily bad. None of them are necessarily good. It's understanding what's really going on and

what insight it's giving to us about us. At least that's my thought process. No, I agree. So I want to ask the question, why do you believe that female relationships are so complicated or maybe what's different about them? What nuances or differences exist between, you know, relationships with men or other genders? Something that you talk about in your platform a lot is confidence. Obviously it's an obsession that we both share and how to help more women get more of it. And I agree with you, Nicole, we are not born without confidence. And the way you describe confidence is fundamentally, it's a choice, and it's the ability to trust yourself. So I agree

that we are born fundamentally confident. We know who we are. We begin to lose that little by little. I believe that women are culturally conditioned females to lose it at a rapid rate, starting a couple of years shy of puberty. And I think I'm going to set a frame around this. I think what sets us up to become mean girls, to become judgy, to become bitchy, to become backstabbing, to become gossipers, and to see other women as competitors instead of allies is because at least in the culture that you and I are part of, and most of the world as well, we are fundamentally taught from a very early age that we are not enough. We're not pretty enough. We're not thin enough. We're not smart enough. We're not strong enough.

We're not fill in the fricking blank. The list just keeps going on. And because we learn these things early, our brain is a, I call it an empty field of fertile soil. So whatever gets planted in there, those thoughts that get thrown at us and that we absorb even from cartoons, they get planted deep in our brain. So the thoughts that we think about ourselves, starting from a very early age, I'm not pretty, I'm not strong, I'm not smart. I'm not literally, I am not enough of whatever it is. Those roots sink deep because there's not as much planted in there in the early years. I mean, you only get one brain and it's got to last you like 80 plus years for your lifetime. There's not much planted in the beginning. So the roots go deep. Your brain literally forms neural pathways so that those thoughts are on default mode and autopilot. Most women literally

cannot remember a time that they didn't think that they weren't enough. So if we're all conditioned to see ourselves as not enough, and as you have pointed out, we are culturally conditioned to be pleasing to the male gaze is the full sentence and to the male way of desiring us. All the things that we are taught we should be, we all think the more I can be that, the more value I have, the more worth I have. Well, everybody isn't going to accomplish. It's not a level playing field to begin with, right? We don't all have the same amount of access to those things and the ability to enhance those things and develop those things. So some of us are going to fall short. We are naturally going to compare ourselves to others, not because we're born assholes,

but because the human brain is by nature comparative. What the human brain is designed to do is observe, identify, label, and recall. So that fundamentally requires that we label things and that we are able to compare things we've labeled and we get socially conditioned to think this is good behavior, this is bad behavior, you're being a good girl. When we're being good, we are appropriating and internalizing and aligning our thoughts, our feelings, our behaviors, especially with what we've been taught is good and feminine. But I was part of the women who went into the workforce in the late seventies, into the eighties. I am woman, hear me roar. And the behaviors that we needed to be successful

in those early years were the behaviors of men. Now I'm here to tell you, I have been told all my life that I have masculine energy. I have been told ever since I was a teenager that I'm intimidating and that I'm threatening. And I understand it used to hurt me so hard. I understand that because I'm tall, because I'm articulate, because I am direct. And because I don't do a lot of feminine posturing, which women have been trained to do, to be uncertain and and kind of, well, you know, I just think maybe like, the maybes, the mights, the sorrys, the honey, it's like, I kind of, well, you know, I just think maybe I'm like, the maybes, the mights, the sorries, the honey. It's like, I'm saying, okay, here's your problem.

This is what you need to do. Does that make sense? It's go time. And people say, I can't believe any straight man would want to be with you because you behave like a man. And that was meant to be negative. And it's like, it seems efficient to me, but women are our own worst enemies. Because first of all, most of us don't even realize that we have been culturally conditioned to see ourselves in a certain way. And if we see ourselves in this way, and it's

become so unconscious because we can't remember not seeing ourselves that way, we are going to judge other women for two reasons. One, how well are they aligning to that cultural conditioning? So is she a good woman or a bad woman? I'm a bad woman in case you didn't figure that out. And, and if she's doing it better than I am, she is the object of envy. If she's not doing it as well as I am, she's the object of scorn, ridicule, and gossip. So there's no winning under this model. Yeah. I almost think of like a circle, like where everything connects into the, maybe the part of the circle that starts this is this not enough. We've been conditioned, socialized, not enough. And from a not enough place,

our brain does what a brain is supposed to do to compares, but we either make ourselves better than or less than another. And so from this not enough place, it sort of starts the circle. Then we go into labeling, right? And I think I want to talk about labeling a little bit more, but I think what is problematic about labeling is we interact with our labels as if they're truth with a capital S as opposed to our perspective, our opinion, our, you know, but okay. So then we go into labeling good, bad, you know, poor, virgin, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff. Right. And then there's an element, and I don't know if this is part of the circle, but the word scarcity came up for me, but like, I think of the generation of women who entered the workforce,

there's probably some reality to the, there is only one spot for a woman in this organization or in this role. And so it was a little bit, it's either me or you and might've triggered some competition, or we think about, you know, jealousy over a man's attention or whatever, as if this is the one man and he's either going to choose us or not choose us. And, and so there's this sort of scarcity element that plays into, and then feeds into the not enough. And now we've got this vicious circle. It's a cluster. It is a total cluster. And Nicole, you are so right because, because scarcity is part of the conditioning. Think about it. How old were you when you first heard the statement, a good man is hard to find. If that's just, just a nugget, just, just a part of it, then we've been taught

you're not enough. You, I mean, the self-help industry therapy, you know, the beauty industry, there billions and billions of dollars that are being spent and have been spent for decades to not only keep us thinking we're not enough, but to sell us on the idea, but wait, there's things you can do to appear to be enough, right? I mean, it's extreme plastic surgery, like so many things. So, and, and, you know, to the point of your thought leadership around women and confidence, it is all based on the hook of externalizing how we get to feel about ourselves. Human beings will always be triggered by the perception of scarcity. It is a fricking survival mechanism. So if we're told a good man is hard to find,

I've been told for many years, you know, first it was, if you wouldn't be so direct and opinionated, you might have more men interested in dating you. And then later it's like, well, nobody really wants a divorced woman with children. Then it was like, you've been single for 10 years. You're about to turn 50. You know that there's kind of an expiration date. You know, you're never going to get remarried if you hit 50. So gross. It is totally gross gross but if we all are sort of conditioned to believe in this scarcity then naturally we need to be picked it back in the 50s it was a little easier all you had to do is be picked be picked i just need to be better than the other girls prettier smarter a better cook you know

know more about cleaning products how to sp, a better cook, you know, know more about cleaning products, how to spank a child correctly. So you don't leave marks, whatever. But you, you then move forward to the seventies. Now I have to get the job and keep the man and tend the kids. So it's stacking of expectations with this grid. It's like a matrix. You're stacking the expectations and you're also teaching and preaching scarcity. There aren't enough positions to go around. There aren't

enough promotions to go around. There isn't enough childcare to go around. There isn't enough schools for your kids or tutors or sports program. So we're constantly being conditioned to believe I'm not enough. There isn't enough. How could we be anything but competitive, fearful, and seeing every other woman as the one who's going to take my shit away from me or prevent me from getting it. So a few reactions in no particular order. And people often say we've come so far as women. And the answer is yes, we have. But I want to reiterate what you just said. It's been stacked. It's all additive. It's not in replacement. Nobody's taken anything away. Right. Yeah. So there's that thought. The other thought, something you said earlier is it makes me cringe more often than not. The advice I see people giving around confidence is around how

to look confident, not how to be confident. And so you said something that triggered that thought. I wanted to throw that in there. And then, oh my gosh, I had like this like light bulb moment when you talked about a good man is hard to find. There is that scarcity element, but what's also interesting to me about that is the lens in which we're supposed to react to that statement. A good man is hard to find. I actually kind of agree with that, but my thought is there needs to be more good men. Yes, ma'am. And the expectations we have of men and how they should show up and who they should be. And that to me is the opportunity we, we

should have the expectation of more good men. Yet that statement is thrown out. And more often than not, we think as women that we need to then go and figure out how to be pleasing enough. So those few good men will choose us. And it's so weird. The angle that we take in these moments of scarcity or even fear or doubt or whatever, we make it our problem and we just need to be better. We need to perform more. We need to, and then it's all, all the emphasis is on women, ourselves and other women. That to me. Oh, I'm just, I'm just totally inflamed right now about this because the truth is, is that it's, it's sort of like the pie analogy.

Everybody talks about the pie. I literally have that written down piece of the pie. Cause if you're talking, I'm like, it's not a freaking pie. Well, there's another way of saying it, which is it's not a freaking pie. Well, there's another way of saying it, which is it's not a fricking pie. Or if instead of talking about how do I make sure I get my slice of the pie, why don't women join forces and make more fucking pie? Like if we were not so obsessed with getting ours and making sure that she doesn't get it first and all that, we could join forces and literally be in the pie making business together and not worrying so much about how to slice it. Yeah. It's interesting. I just recorded an episode. I don't know when it'll release in

comparison to this one, but we were talking about glass ceilings and I basically said, I've been rethinking glass ceilings and I see them more as a dam. And the reason is because, you know, the idea that glass ceiling is invisible, but my experience and a lot of the women I talk to is now we see the obstacles. They're there, plain as can be. We just don't know how to get on the other side of them. We don't know how to push through them. Well, out of curiosity, I Googled how do dams break and it's basically an over flooding. And so that's what was going through my mind. It's like, make more freaking pies. Together, we need to flood the freaking dam. Right. And we have that power together, but we're doing so much damage to

ourselves and we're minimizing that power by letting the green eyed monsters get in the way. I love, I love the flood, the dam. And I think what's also true is, I mean, it may be more so in male dominant industries. I went from a male dominated industry to a female dominated industry. And I'm still, believe it or not, pretty idealistic, Nicole. So I was thinking, oh, women are going to be more collaborative. They're going to be more helpful. What I think one of the things I don't like about senior women in many organizations is that women in my age group tend to think, hey, nobody made it easy for me. Nobody held the damn door open. I had to bite and scratch and kick and claw to get to where I got. I'll be damned if I'm going to make it easier for somebody else,

just because she happened to be born a couple of decades after me. I see this so often. And I think, shouldn't you be at a certain point of maturity where you are more interested in seeing what you've worked hard for continue what we call legacy than thinking, well, I got mine. See you later, bitches. You know, that just, it's like, there's something really, and I think it really speaks to the degradation of our personal values. When we really get deeply embedded into this mindset, when we really get deeply embedded into the thinking that other women are out to get us, they will rip us off, they will take our stuff, they will steal our husbands, you know. And so we need to defend what's ours, because that

has never been where the true power in women lies. If you study tribal cultures, you know this, like women joining forces together is where our power lies. There's never been a divide and conquer, never has been. And I don't think it ever will be. And it's so ugly when it happens. You gave an example that I see all too often, the know, the more veteran, older woman, like it was so hard for me. It's like, don't you, I love the way you frame that. It's the opportunity for legacy and maturity over. I've also heard, you know, when, when women are achieving professional success, there's

almost always a, yeah, but look at what she's doing in her personal life. And I'm like, I don't, that blasts my mind. Because, because we don't get the, I mean, I've been through two divorces while rising professionally. And there are many reasons for that, but I will tell you one of them for certain I now understand is that when men's lives get more complicated, they get more help. When women's lives get more complicated, they create more role conflict and role strain. Something is going to give, and oftentimes it is the marriage or the kids are being neglected or what have you. And then those very things that are part of the systemic problem, like they say, you know,

at the end of the day, a man goes home and his day is done. A woman goes home to her second shift, whether she's a single parent or has a partner. So that being the case and how we've all sort of accepted that as the norm and women judge other women for hiring help to offload some of that role strain. I think that's one of the worst examples of how we've internalized all of this absolute bullshit. If another woman can hire help with her kids, with her cooking, with her household cleaning, with whatever she wants to get help with. We should applaud her for creating jobs and not judge her for thinking she's too bougie to make her own bed. Right. And I would just add and treating the people who do those things with respect and value. But it's interesting that you say that because even

I feel sometimes embarrassment isn't the right word, but like, I don't want to share it because I know what will happen. It's like self-conscious, self-conscious. There we go. Because I mean, well, first of all, I don't do any of the cooking. Jay does all the cooking and all the grocery shopping in our household. And I, and I love that we've set that up. But on top of that, we now have somebody come into the house twice a week to help with cleaning and laundry. I have yet, this is literally the first time I'm telling anybody that, and I pay these people very well, more than they even asked. And I love them. And I can like, they're, they helped me so much and there's still a stigma about it or else I wouldn't be afraid to share it.

And this is, this is sad because look at what you're doing. You are, you are creating employment for these people by paying them better than they might be paid by another employer, you are increasing their standard of living. I think when women really tap into their power and spit out the fucking Kool-Aid, we can make our lives better and the lives of other women. I think at some point you have to to choose to ignore or rise above the noise? I mean, why can't women see envy is a mirror. When you envy another woman for her success, for her physique, for her whatever, why does that have to come at a cost to your own self-worth and hers? Why can't you see that as she is an example of what is possible and in a way that's inspirational and aspirational, as opposed to something that degrades you both? I think that's a choice available to us. It does require some self-awareness.

It does require us to call bullshit on our own inner assholiness and recognize, you know, I know something that you teach a lot is grace. We didn't make ourselves assholes. Like maybe some people find it easier to go that way, but we're all being conditioned in the ways that I've described. And if we realize, you know what, this isn't actually who I am. It certainly isn't who I intentionally choose to be. And no matter how long I've been buying into this storyline, I can choose to stop it right now and begin to identify when is the green-eyed

monster looking out through my lids? And when are other women showing evidence of envy or jealousy with me? And are there simple things that I can do in that moment that start to become habit forming? And I say, absolutely, yes. So I want to talk about some of those simple things that we can do. But before I do, I cannot gloss over the envy is a mirror statement. That's so powerful and so important. I think those feelings of envy, even jealousy to a certain extent can give us some insight into our desires. Yes. Right. It also can give us some insight into our beliefs and our values. And we can look at those beliefs and values and not make the other person bad or wrong, but more again, is that mirror of like, what is this telling me about me and what I want or what I don't want? And just coming from that place without having to make it about the other person. Okay. So,

but let's be honest, we're human and every one of us has green-eyed monster moments. What can we do? What are some of those small choices that we can make in those moments that can be habit forming so that we find ourselves in that situation less. Well, let's take for the example, gossip, right? Gossip is judgmental. It's promoting negativity. It's promoting division, exclusivity, all of these things. So I think maybe like first level, if you are with a friend or with your professional network and someone starts to gossip about someone who isn't present, first level, don't contribute. Like just notice what's going on. Have the honesty, the self-awareness and the grace to recognize that you still feel the urge to jump in on it.

You do. You're going to feel the pull because it's a habit you already have. And I know circles of women where gossiping becomes like this game of one-upsmanship, where everybody's got to dig up just a little bit more dirt. It almost becomes like an unhealthy competition about who can dish the more dirt about the person who isn't present. So just observe. I happen to be a practitioner of Buddhism and mindfulness. So for me, learning how to manage my emotions, my thoughts, and my behavior always comes down to the basic principles of mindfulness, openness, curiosity, and lack of judgment about self and others. So in this scenario, how it would look is I'm open to the discomfort I'm feeling when other people are gossiping and I feel the

urge to jump in, but I'm making the conscious choice not to. I'm also making the conscious choice not to judge them for doing it because this is just part of their habit and unconscious programming. I'm just choosing something different for myself. First level, you just don't contribute. When that starts to become a little bit solid for you and you're not feeling so compelled, you don't have to leave the room to avoid contributing to the gossip. You can maybe challenge it a little bit without being overly negative. You could say, I don't

really want to talk about her right now. Or, well, you know, maybe that's so or maybe not. Or there could be another explanation for that. Sometimes you can be influential with other people, just by giving them the opportunity to hit the pause button and recognize they're just propagating something based on assumptions. And it may not even be the truth. And I think it really comes down to not judging yourself for being this way, even if you know you were a hardcore asshole. I mean, your own story is a beautiful example of that. You were culturally conditioned to see women in a certain way. You went into a male dominated industry. You were not going to hear anything to the contrary there. You eventually got woke, if you will, and realized, oh shit,

I'm the asshole. But you obviously gave yourself forgiveness and grace and some curiosity to begin to unpack that and recognize that. And I think that's fundamentally where it starts. Don't contribute, but don't judge other people that are in that moment because you were there too. And it's not so hard to imagine that you could continue to do that. You don't have to become an evangelist. You don't have to start telling other people, you know, you really shouldn't do that because nobody changes as a result of that kind of feedback. And like everything else, it starts with you. It's an inside job. And you'd be surprised how much of an influencer, and I don't mean an Instagram influencer, I mean a person of influence in your own network. If you simply stop contributing to the envy, to the gossip, to the competitive analysis of other people and what

they're doing. If you just S T F U on the whole topic. And then just notice how different things feel to you in those environments where maybe you used to play along. It's really quite fascinating. It's fascinating. And I will add the difference in the quality of the people you attract when you begin this practice. When you contribute and participate, you attract the other type of people who want to contribute and participate. And then, you know, I always think it's just a matter of time until it turns back on you. Right. But when you begin to stop contributing and stop participating. And I love the reminder that, that it is us. We, the only thing we can control is ourselves, but when we stop contributing and participating, one of the by-products is you attract a different caliber of people into your circle. And for no

other reason than that, it's worth doing in my opinion. Absolutely. So indeed, Diane, I w we are already over normal time and I could talk about this forever. Thank you for your wisdom and for giving us a tactic. And this is such a good conversation. If you're listening and you want to learn more about Diane and her work, go to Diane winger coaching.com or listen to her podcast, The Driven Woman Entrepreneur, or follow her on LinkedIn at Diane Winger Coaching. Any of those places, we'll put it all in show notes. I am a huge fan and I would encourage you all get connected

with her some way, somehow. Thank you again, Diane, for your time. I would talk to you anytime, anyplace, anywhere. No lie. Me too. Deal. All right. I'm going to close us out by sharing a quote that I like that says, haters start rumors, fools spread them, and idiots believe them. I try to remember that because I have no interest in being a hater, a fool, or an idiot. And it could be argued that there are ways in which I'm still an asshole, but being catty, gossipy, and seeing other women as my competition are not among them. Yes, I still catch myself falling into the comparison trap. And as much as I try not to judge anyone, judgment is the green-eyed monster I always need to be on guard against. In which ways are you contributing to the narrative that women don't support other women?

Be honest with yourself. Do you spend a lot of time talking about the other women in your life? Do you judge their choices? Do you think you know what's best for the women in your life? Do you waste energy comparing yourself to other women and feeling behind or feeling better than? Do you think that in order for you to win, another woman needs to lose? Do you throw other women under the bus, share their secrets, give your two cents when it wasn't asked for, or feel like you have some sort of right to decide what's best for someone else?

If you said no to all of those things, well, I don't believe you because it's human nature to do them. All I'm asking is that you consider doing them less. Then you make it a goal to stop yourself when you catch yourself. This is not about liking or agreeing with or wanting to hang out with every single woman. There are lots of women, frankly, lots of people that aren't my people and I wouldn't choose to spend energy on, but I can have them not be my people without making them bad or without wasting my time and energy talking about them or judging them. In short, I can dislike them without needing to do or say anything about it. And a loving reminder that there is nothing we can do to change or fix another person.

We can only change and fix ourselves. And any gossiping, judging, comparison, or jealousy will always say more about the person doing it than the person it's being done to. And if somebody is doing this to you, you have two choices. Have the courage to address it or walk away. Because if people are talking about you

behind your back, that's exactly where they belong, behind your back. So here is my call to action to all the women that are listening here today. First, stop being an asshole. Second, stop surrounding yourself with them. Both of these things are definitely women's work.