This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 142 / Make Your Comeback Stronger Than Your Setback with Julia Wolfendale

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

I’ve been knocked down more times than I care to count, and the only thing I can tell you with any kind of certainty is that I’ve gotten UP at least one more time than I’ve been knocked down. I believe that’s true for you too. Because you’re here. On this episode of TIWW we’re going to talk about getting BACK into action after a setback. Because I know TWO THINGS FOR SURE, from every conversation I’ve had and every woman I’ve interacted with (even the ones with all the followers, even the bestsellers, and the stage walkers, and all the women we think have it all figured out), and those two things are: first, EVERYONE faces setbacks and second, EVERYONE struggles with them. Joining me is Julia Wolfendale, Executive Coach, Author of Five Ways to Focus, and Founder and Director of On The Up Consulting. She is qualified to a masters level in leadership and has trained and coached hundreds of CEOs, directors, and senior managers across a variety of industries. Now specializing in strengths-based coaching, she inspires people to get back into action on even their toughest days. Setbacks are what happen to you. Comebacks are what you make happen. Pick yourself up. Dust yourself off. Get back into action… head high, eyes forward, deep breath, trust in self.  Because it’s COMEBACKS, not setbacks, that a well-lived life is made of. To learn more about Julia please visit: Website: www.ontheupconsulting.com  Book: Five Ways to Focus: Deal with overwhelm, gain clarity and perspective to get things on the up! Twitter @JuliaWolfendale https://twitter.com/juliawolfendale Twitter @ontheupbooks https://twitter.com/ontheupbooks LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-wolfendale-a0417391/ Link tree https://linktr.ee/OnTheUpConsulting Course: Five Ways To Focus- a self-led coaching program To join Nicole’s pod (to get all the inside scoops, free stuff, and the occasional rant), click here

Hi friends, Nicole Kalil here, and as your host, it is important to me that you feel like this is a place you can come no matter where you're at or what's going on in your world and know that you're going to hear something of value, but even more important to me that you're going to hear something of value, but even more important to me, that you're going to hear something real. One of those real things that's still sort of shocking to me is how many women still think that they are the only ones that don't know what the fuck they're doing and that when things are hard,

it must mean they're doing something wrong. I mean, people, the stuff you see on social media is either not real or it's a tiny sliver of what's really going on in someone's life. Every single woman you see on the medias or know in real life has something going on, is dealing with some version of hard in her life, has a voice in her head that is just plain mean and is facing

challenges they're not sure they have what it takes to overcome. Every single one. And if they don't happen to be experiencing that right at this very moment, give it a day or a week or a month and they'll find themselves there. We all do. Can we stop pretending with ourselves and with each other that we don't all struggle with setbacks? I've been knocked down more times than I care to count. And the only thing I can tell you with any kind of certainty is that I've gotten up at least one more time than I've been knocked down. And I believe that's true for you too, because you're here. But somewhere in that overthinking mind of yours, you've convinced yourself that other women or good women or accomplished women have gotten past

that stage where they face setbacks on a regular basis, or that somehow they know exactly what to do to overcome them quickly or with ease. Like when they're faced with the same challenge that makes you want to give up, curl up in the fetal position, curse the gods or scream into the void, they quickly find the solution. Execute flawlessly and without breaking a sweat. Problem solve without once questioning their value or their worth. Step forward with unwavering confidence and flawless skin all before they've had their morning latte and just in time to post their Instagram worthy Ted talk in front of thousands and only to end their day reading emails upon emails of people asking no begging to work with them who are in fact willing to pay double their

fees. Don't lie to me. Well, really don't lie to yourself. I'm not all that far off. You think your setbacks mean something bad about you and that other people or other women handle them with ease and that makes you bad. Well, friends, I'm calling bullshit on all of that. On this episode of This Is Woman's Work, we're going to talk about getting back into action after a setback, because I know two things for sure. From every conversation I've had and every woman I've interacted with, even the ones with all the followers, even the bestsellers and the stage walkers and all the women we think have it

all figured out. And the two things I know for sure are, first, everyone faces setbacks, and second, everyone struggles with them. Nothing we say today will eliminate either of those two things, but what we can do is help you to get back into action faster toward what matters to you and remind you that you're in very good company. Joining me today is Julia Wolfendale, executive coach, author of Five Ways to Focus, and founder and director of On the Up Consulting. She is qualified to master's level in leadership and has trained and coached hundreds of CEOs, directors, and senior managers across a variety of industries. Now specializing in strengths-based coaching, she inspires people to get back into

action even on their toughest days. Okay, first, Julia, what are your thoughts on my opening statement? Are there actually people or women out there who just never get rattled by a setback? Hi, Nicole. Thank you so much for inviting me to be on your show and yeah that's really just put some truth to the matter um I think so often women think that because they believe what's seen on social media and obviously what's written about in in the press and everything that's kind of filtered and photoshopped and curated and created to make us believe that there's this perfection and most people are kind of nailing that it's going to really have an impact on everybody else but it's not the truth it's not the whole truth it's not reality for the majority of people everybody's

struggling with something at some point a lot of the time and there are some people that really know how to power through and deal with the difficulties and kind of ride out that storm and then there's others that will kind of really suffer and really struggle and so we never really know what's going on for anybody at any time we don't know what someone's feeling thinking we only know what they're choosing to show and there may be reasons why they choose to show that because maybe they don't want us to see what's really going on maybe they haven't really figured out a way to to be acceptable it's okay not to be okay you know that's that's still not true for everybody so yeah I think what you said at the

beginning is absolutely right that perhaps we we um convince ourselves that not everyone is having such a hard time that we are so we don talk about it, but actually it's probably more the case that most people are struggling with something at any one time. So let's talk about those moments then. If we're all facing some sort of setback at some point in time in our life, then what gets in the way for most people? What's really happening that makes it hard for us to get back into action, to, you know, dust ourselves off and pick ourselves up? What happens in those moments that makes it so hard to want to do anything productive? Yeah, I think sometimes it's the kind of taking it personally and kind of going down that route of blaming either yourself and that leads to shame or blaming a situation, but not feeling you can kind of take either responsibility for it or move forward in the way um of people getting things going well again too much

of that kind of thinking taking this personally rather than being able to kind of put a bit of emotional distance and and we need that psychological flexibility to be able to recognize that what we're feeling is what we're feeling it's not necessarily what is happening it is just what we're feeling um and having some space between those feelings and a feeling that we would prefer to have and want to choose to have and want to find a way to have we can really you know kind of really get bogged down by that I think people focusing on what they can't do or haven't been able to do is that kind of place of stuckness that is hard to move away from you know and and get things on the up but it is a place where there's learning if we if we choose if we choose to um use that as

a place of learning and a place of personal growth I think looking back as well kind of having a an undue or kind of a sense of the things that have happened previously all culminating you know rather than seeing things individually and objectively but kind of um thinking all these things have happened to me well actually we're our success rate of getting through difficult things is probably 100 if we're sitting listening to this podcast you know it's probably a whole lot of things that people have already gone through and you know are behind them and it is what the thing really is there how can you grow from this that's a question I really love to ask when I'm coaching somebody and you know people do show up with difficulties and things that they're experiencing as leaders and those sorts of setbacks that might kind of make them lose some

confidence or lose their perspective or, you know, lose their focus and their energy. I'll ask, how can you grow from this? What's the learning in this situation that you might want to start to focus on? So yeah, I think a lot of it is around focus. It's around what do you put your focus on? And that will generate the kind of energy that you've got to move forward or not. Okay, so there are a handful of things that I want to circle back on first. I couldn't agree more with this inclination that we have to take it personally. I don't know if women are doing that at a greater rate than men, but it feels like it. It feels like there's this, you know, thing that we do where we make it, we're bad, or there's something wrong with us, or rather than saying something went wrong, we very quickly go to we're wrong, right? We internalize and make it personal and we make it about who we are as humans, not just a, you know, single event. I also couldn't agree more with the tendency, I know I do this,

to make it a culmination, right? Like every single thing works as opposed to an individual experience or event. And I think it almost makes the problem bigger than it needs to be. I don't know if you have data or percentages or anything like that, but in your experience, how much would you say the obstacles or the challenges when you're faced with the setback are internal versus external? I think largely they're internal because of how we feel about them every event is neutral until we choose to attach a feeling to it and you know people can it's like we all experienced a global pandemic but individually people experienced a global pandemic in so many different ways given

their personal situations but given their personal levels of resilience even their personal outlook around what was happening and what was happening to them so I think everything is external until we choose to internalize it because events can happen to us and we can treat them lightly or we can hold them as as weights as burdens that we might carry in that kind of stress rucksack that we carry through for a large part of our lives adding like you say with this culmination of things oh and all this as well and that's um that's really hard for people because that lessens their resilience for future things if they see that there are more things to add to the things that they perhaps don't think should have happened to their emotion of being difficulties they should

have experienced yeah and this kind of idea that life should be easy why relationships are difficult jobs can be tough you know in a way the way we live our lives should create some expectation of difficulty. You said something to the effect of not focusing on what you can't do. pre-written question, but in my experience, there are some people who when faced with a setback or when they feel they're really struggling, have a tendency to hold really strongly and really firmly to all the reasons why they can't move forward. Like there's this inclination towards, no, no, that won't work. No, I can't do that. No, that's not an available option. No, no, no. As opposed to being open or looking at new and different possibilities. I find people often fight really hard for their limitations in those

moments, as opposed to their possibilities. We do that. And I think, yeah, we can probably put kind of too much attention into the things that we can't do. And that takes up too much of our focus, too much of our energy. And, you know, we feel tense about taking steps that will bring about change, because even a place of stuckness becomes comfortable, comfortably familiar, you know, over time. So and sometimes we kind of get an association of the identity of, oh, this has happened to me and this is what I don't want. So the first thing really is to notice what we do want. And sometimes that takes a coach to ask that question, to listen to, OK, I hear this is the difficulty. I hear why that has been a problem for

you I can understand this is the situation that you're in now but to be able to ask that question which is just completely reframe things and say so what do you want you know what do you want to improve what do you want to change and sometimes it can it can take the client's kind of kind of breaths to go actually there's a realization that they've been spending a lot of time and energy and focus around the difficulty they're having and had almost not thought about the way forward because it's become familiar this situation and by just asking that question and asking people what do they want then there's an opportunity to help them focus on what they actually can do and I cover this in the

book you know the things that you can do and to really if this thing that's happened the setback is really weighing heavily break that down to the smallest possible thing what can you do in the next two hours what can you do in the next 24? What can you do by the end of next week? It's like, we're really on a roll here. Like, what can you do in a month? And what can you do in the next three to six months that will really help you achieve the thing you want? The five ways to focus. You break it down to the five things you can focus on that will take you forward. And it's so achievable when you break it down. I love that concept of breaking it down. I often say in my coaching work, how do you climb out Everest? And the answer is always one step at a time. And I think again, in those moments where

a lot of internal things are happening and you have all the feelings, It's hard to focus on what you can do. And I think even harder to focus or to do anything about it if you're looking at it as this big insurmountable thing as opposed to breaking it down into those. That's a phenomenal takeaway. I want to circle back to something you said because I want to hone in on a little bit. This concept of being comfortable with your discomfort. Like there's this discomfort we know, no matter how much we hate it or no matter how much we complain about it or how much we know it's not working for us, it's the discomfort we are comfortable with. We know how to live in that. And how many people I've experienced this in

coaching are, I have to assume it's unconsciously, but they're unconsciously staying in situations or making choices that keep them in a place. They say they hate, but the reality is the fear of the unknown sometimes outweighs the fear of the discomfort they know. So how do we, A, recognize if and when we're doing that? And B, how do you help people choose the fear of the unknown over the fear of staying stuck? So I think how do you get people to recognize that that's where they are is how people understand the kind of the stories and scripts that they're telling themselves. The explanation that they give, I'm in this job because I went for promotion, but they pick someone else. The organization doesn't want, really want people like me to progress I I don't think I could uh you know take up take on a uh promotion right now because I don't think I'd be able to commit to it because

of the family and it's the first thought the first thought that people have um taken on board and accepted as a truth that then kind of stands the test of time because it never gets challenged so for someone who's saying you know um I didn't get I didn't get the promotion the organization doesn't want people like me to turn that around and say how do you know that that's true and then help people sort of test out that assumption what's like you what do you have to offer so go back to what is it that people what's what strengths does somebody have and who's the best person to employ that kind of person then you know and really kind of tease out the self-limiting beliefs and the what people have discounted and filtered and kind of disregarded for themselves and

link it back to what well if that's what you really want what would you need to do that so what is it that you would need to do to be ready for promotion next time what is it that you would need to be able to demonstrate this time around if you were going to go for a more senior role what is it that you would need to be able to convince them of that maybe they didn't see last time and it's like just that idea of having another shot at it if it's important enough or trying another way if that way hasn't worked rather than you know kind of staying stuck and even asking that question if you would stay with this situation for the next one one year two years what would life be like for you and sometimes people don't

think about the future and how if they stay where they are how they might not actually end up feeling any better unless they do something about it so being able to ask somebody you know how how will life change for you if you stay where you are right now they'll go well it won't it won't get any better okay so what what's better then what would be better you know what's better mean to you what are you really looking for what would be the ways to do that just looking at it from different perspectives creating some new insight. Often the answers, they're there, but they've been discounted too soon. I think that that is very accurate. You know, I don't know that there is a number or percentage around this, but I'd say the vast

majority of the things we interact with as if they're truth or as if they're fact are not in fact truth or fact. They're things in our own heads. We make them true. Yeah, we make them true. And I love that you said that we make them true because we don't challenge them. So you had mentioned it might take a coach earlier. and that was one of my questions. Where does advice, outside perspective, coaching, therapy, or any other sort of outside influence fit in, in the midst of a setback? Because I have this theory that it's during those really, really tough times that our brain defaults to these

truths we think we know, and then we're going to reinforce. It defaults to the negative. It defaults to all the reasons we can't. So there's a saying that goes something like, it's hard to read the label from inside the bottle. And that resonates with me because when you're in it and you're swimming in it and you're, you know, engrossed in it, it's so hard. Whereas as a coach, sometimes when I'm talking to people about their setbacks, solutions seem really obvious to me or plentiful to me. And it's because I'm not inside the bottle. I'm, I'm outside looking in. So all of that to ask, you know, how important is this outside perspective and how do you know when to listen to somebody who to listen to when you're in those setback moments? Yeah, that's a really good

question actually. And I think for people to know who to go to and whether or not they need advice or whether or not they need a or whether or not they need a coach. I mean, as a coach, I don't give advice. I ask the questions that will create the insights and the new perspective, because as a coach, I believe that the answers are within the person themselves, whereas a mentor would say, look, I've been in that situation and this is what you should do. So a coach like myself would be asking asking those questions so my approach really is around strengths-based approach so I would help somebody see that say they didn't secure an opportunity that they'd gone for say a promotion at work or something like that I would remind them that

they might be feeling kind of quite they'll be feeling the setback they'll be feeling that they are less but I'll remind them that you don't lose your strengths you just might not be using your strengths so they are no less than before but right now they might be kind of withdrawing and they might not be showing up so well at work because they might not feel so committed but so they might just not be using their strengths so I would then encourage them to think about okay so what are the opportunities where you can really use your strengths and really show your strengths and where might that lead you to in terms of, you know, new opportunities or a renewed confidence to go for this kind of opportunity again? Yeah. I like the idea of picking somebody, whether you have a coach or not, or get a coach or not,

but somebody who can challenge with love, ask the right questions so that you can self-discover. And then I want to circle back on something that you said that it was kind of a mic drop moment for me, which is that you don't lose your strengths. And how often I can speak for myself when we're experiencing a setback where we start to question everything, everything about ourselves, everything we know to be true, every, you know, track record and history of successes that we've ever had. It all goes, you know, to shit. We're like, I, you know, I can't do anything right. And I just, there's so much power in that we don't lose our strengths. We might feel slightly disconnected from them, but we're not, we haven't lost them. And what a phenomenal opportunity that is. You mentioned early on, I wrote it down when you said it, flexibility. And I think, you know, there is a tendency to focus on tenacity and resilience,

and I love tenacity and resilience, but I also think that there's a component of flexibility that makes recovering from a setback more effective and efficient, faster and better. You know, I think sometimes when we focus on tenacity or resilience, there's the inclination to just shove it aside, forget it happened, ignore it, and like just power through as opposed to this idea of flexibility, which is a little bit more, I don't know, it speaks to me a little bit more at this stage in my life. What are your thoughts about flexibility, tenacity, resilience, any of those things and what part do they play in recovering from a setback? Yeah. So really good questions. And, you know, each of those can be strengths, but we have to be careful not to overplay or underplay.

So tenacity overplayed will have a real effect on somebody's resilience. So to keep going and keep doing something that is not working or is taking a huge amount of energy and not getting great results is gonna it's gonna be hard for somebody to sustain over the long term and effectively it's gonna wear down their resilience and resilience can be a great thing when people can show it and we need resilience to be able to bounce back but you can't really keep doing that there will be a time when enough enough is enough and being able to notice that for yourself if you're approaching that point of burnout before you know something dramatic happens you know your health gives out or or you're making a mistake because you you're not in a position to kind of

um do the quality work you need to do or keep showing up regularly so it's important that we pay attention to these things and think about them if there are strengths that we don't overuse we need to be able to pay attention and check if those strengths are still working for us and we're using them well and then I think the flexibility is so important when we're thinking about coming back after a setback because we need both the psychological flexibility to put some space between the emotion of how it felt to have the setback and the ability to to look forwards and move forwards with positivity and hope and kind of a new plan but we also kind of need the flexibility that kind of comes with creativity around choosing a new way to go about things you know planning a new way of

handling situations or trying a new way of getting the result we're looking for you know maybe applying for a different career you know maybe it's not such a straight line move or maybe it's a sideways move before it's a move up or maybe it's a different sector you know what's the what creativity can we bring to you know what ideas can we have about finding a different way forward and that does require some flexibility too and not to be too not to hold on too much to what we really wanted that actually is probably not going to be available to us and kind of have some new thinking about actually what might be another way to get the reward of that um in a more indirect way you know what might make us feel fulfilled what might make us feel we're part of a team what might make us feel

like oh we're earning the kind of money we deserve what might make us feel and that we've got some kind of freedom and some autonomy and you know what might give us the kudos and status so when we focus on the outcome that we were looking for we can find a new way flexibly and creatively to achieve that outcome and it might not be trying again in the same way as before it might be about looking at doing things differently but that's the learning and that's what's great about setbacks they do make us think okay what now yeah so um it can be a really positive thing it's like how do you grow from this you know that is such an important thing to be able to ask and understand of ourselves it's a very powerful question and i love the distinctions between tenacity and resilience and flexibility

and creativity that's a great ad there too. We are at time, Julia. Thank you so much for being here today. If you're listening and you want to learn more about Julia and her work, go to her website on the upconsulting.com. You can also find her on LinkedIn at Julia Wolfendale. Get your hands on her book, Five Ways to Focus. And she also has a course that you can find on her website. Thank you, Julia, for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. I've enjoyed it so much. Thanks,

Nicole. Okay, my loves, I'm going to close us out with one of my all-time favorite quotes that I look at literally all the time because I face tons and tons of setbacks on a very regular basis. And I struggle with all of them. And it goes like this. Sometimes we lose ourselves for a while. And that's okay. It's all part of learning. Just make sure your comeback is stronger than your setback. Because setbacks are inevitable.

And it's during those times where you grow, learn, and build the most confidence, resilience, strength, even though it sucks when you're in it. Setbacks are what happen to you. Comebacks are what you make happen. Pick yourself up. And if you need help doing that, ask for help. There's absolutely no shame in that. In fact, it is fucking brave.

Dust yourself off. Get back into action. Head high, eyes forward, deep breath, trust in self. Because it's comebacks, not setbacks, that a well-lived life is made of. Comebacks. It's woman's work.