This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 164 / Self-Sabotage with Kamini Wood

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

In this episode we’re going to take a close look at the actions, inactions, distractions, decisions, indecision, negative self-talk,perfectionism, imposter syndrome, ALL the stuff – and ask, “WHY ARE WE DOING THIS TO OURSELVES”? We’re going to get curious about all of our self-sabotaging ways. Here to help us make sure we don’t turn into self-sabotage hoarders is Kamini Wood, who helps high-achievers heal their relationships with themselves by identifying limiting beliefs and reasons for stagnation, as well as overcoming self-doubt in order to live a fulfilling professional and personal life. She is the creator of AuthenticMe® and CEO of Live Joy Your Way - a coaching company serving those who have seen success through old-rooted, traditional metrics, reestablishing their relational self-awareness. A best-selling author, Kamini holds certifications in a large variety of modalities including high-performance coaching, conscious uncoupling, breath work, meditation, and belonging, just to name a few. As always, you are the decider of what you do with your life – and I mean that in EVERY way. All I want is for you to make sure you’re not the one getting in the way of your own goals. Here’s what I do know – self-sabotage will only ever be unpaid work and we’ve been doing it for far too long – sabotaging YOURSELF – is most certainly not woman’s work. Like what you heard? Please rate and review Join Nicole’s pod (to get all the inside scoops, free stuff, and the occasional rant) Connect with Kamini and Resources: Website: https://www.kaminiwood.com/  IG: itsauthenticme FB: https://www.facebook.com/itsauthenticme/ Free Guide:  https://www.kaminiwood.com/8-steps-to-overcome-limiting-beliefs/  

I am Nicole Kalil, and you probably already know that I have a stalker-like obsession with confidence. I think about it all the time. I wrote a book about it, I speak about it, and I practice and choose it on a daily and sometimes minute-by-minute basis in my own life. As part of my work, I've identified perfectionism, head trash, comparison, overthinking, and seeking confidence externally as the five things that are chipping away at, doing damage to, and in some cases, destroying women's confidence at the highest level.

I call these confidence derailers because they're what knocks us off track on our journey to build our own confidence. And topics like imposter syndrome come up a lot in my work, as do people pleasing, boundary setting, and managing our mindsets. It's almost inevitable that when I connect with a group of women that challenges like time management, organization, delegating or getting help will get discussed and pop up in every conversation. And I wonder if we took a step back from thinking about each of these things individually, if we tried to pack all these derailers,

these topics and these challenges into one big box, what would we call it? Like if you were packing for a move and you put your keyboard and your mouse and your pens and your chargers and your notepads and sticky notes into one big box. Yes, they're still individual things, but you wouldn't list them out all on the box, right? You'd probably label the box office stuff. So like that, if we tried to group those individual derailers, topics, and challenges into one overarching theme, into one big box, what would we label it? Is it gender expectations? Is it self-doubt? Or is it possible that the label that fits best is self-sabotage? Could it be that this box is just filled with all the ways that we're getting in our own way,

blocking our own success and preventing our own goals and desires from being realized? Like most things, I believe it's probably more complex and there isn't just one right answer. But what if we played with that idea for a little bit? What if for the next 30-ish minutes, we took a close look at the actions and inactions, the distractions, the decisions and the indecision, the negative self-talk, the perfectionism and imposter syndrome and all this stuff and asked ourselves, why are we doing this to ourselves? Let me be clear. This is not about blaming you or me or us. This is not about judgment or guilt. This is about curiosity. It's about picking this box up and looking at it and looking in it from lots of different angles, asking questions, observing it from

a neutral place before we define, label, or decide what we want to do with it. Today on This Is Woman's Work, I'm asking us all to be curious about our self-sabotage box because let's face it, we all have one. Here to help make sure we don't turn into self-sabotage hoarders is Kamini Wood, who helps high achievers heal their relationships with themselves by identifying limiting beliefs and reasons for stagnation, as well as overcoming self-doubt in order to live fulfilling professional and personal lives. She is the creator of Authentic Me and CEO of Live Joy Your Way, a coaching company serving those that have seen success through old-rooted traditional metrics re-establish

their relational self-awareness. A best-selling author, Kamini holds certifications in a large variety of modalities, including high-performance coaching, conscious uncoupling, breath work, meditation, and belonging, just to name a few. Kamini, thank you so much for being here to talk about the ways we may be self-sabotaging and how it's impacting us setting and achieving our goals. That was amazing. And yes, thank you for having me. My pleasure. So Kamini, let's start by looking at what are some of the most common ways we may be self-sabotaging? So like if we open the box and we're not sure what's in there, what might we be looking

for? Oh, gosh. So if we were to look at how we normally self-sabotage, it generally has some element of avoiding failure, right? So if there's a fear of failure or there's a fear of potentially letting people down, that's another big one. Or there's just a fear sometimes of success. We actually will find self-sabotage lurking around because those are the things that will

hold a lot of us high achievers back. So I call negative self-talk head trash. I think of overthinking, perfectionism, fear of failure. Can you give some examples in your coaching work of some ways that we might be unconsciously or inadvertently sabotaging ourselves, whether it's at work or in our personal lives? Yeah. So from a personal perspective, what I will see many, many times with clients is self-sabotage in the context of relationships. That usually shows up where they find themselves in a relationship and they actually will either take action or pull back, almost isolate in that context of that relationship because

they are protecting themselves from potential hurt. And I call that self-sabotage because really what they're doing is they're trying to control that fallout. They're afraid that at some point this relationship isn't going to work out because that's been the pattern maybe from the past. And so they go into it figuring it's not a conscious thing. It's a subconscious thing, but they go into it trying to protect themselves and trying to protect, trying to control the fallout of the relationship. Right. If I know that it's coming, it won't hurt as much. It's a, it's a lie. We tell ourselves like, with professional clients and they have an opportunity perhaps to put themselves up for a promotion. And then they will self-sabotage for fear of failure or fear that they might not get the promotion.

And so they hold themselves back or they, they will find ways to keep themselves from being able to move forward. And, and really what that is, is it's either fear of success. It also could be fear of failure, but also it's just the idea that maybe imposter syndrome is playing into that a little bit too, where it's, I don't know that I can do that. I don't believe that I can. So that's where the self-doubt comes in. And so it's a combination of imposter syndrome, then leading into self sabotage, holding themselves back from back because of these false beliefs. Yeah. I'll add sort of the I'm not ready thing can also be a way that we self-sabotage. Great examples on both personal and professional. I think we have all experienced some version of that. Talk a little bit about fear of success. I think we all know fear of failure. Talk about fear of success for a second. Yeah. So this was actually, this is one that not a lot of people realize is something

that they fear, but it stems from wanting something so badly, right? I want, and I even working, so I also work with other coaches, coaches who see themselves wanting to, they set these goals for themselves and then they self-sabotage because they start heading towards that and they don't know that they can sustain it. And so they have that fear of actually achieving the thing that they've been setting out for because it's, can I sustain it? There's a false belief many times of, I don't deserve it. And that keeps them from actually living into their success. I've actually also worked with doctors where this has been a real issue where they're in, you know, they're in medical school,

they're going through their residency and that fear of success. It's what do I do when I actually get there? I don't know that I can, I will be successful in this role. And that's the thing that holds them back. And so then they start self-doubting to the point of, I don't think that I can do this. Maybe I'll just go into, I'll become a professor. I'll do something from the educational side rather than actually practicing as a doctor. It's wild how unconsciously, closely we hold to even the discomfort we know. It's like the opportunity of success and what could happen. There's still an element of unknown about that. And that can be really scary as opposed to, okay, well, I'm not where I want to be. I haven't achieved my goals yet, but I know what this looks like, right? I'm somewhat

comfortably uncomfortable here versus uncomfortably uncomfortable up. I see and experience that myself quite a bit. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think I do that too, where the uncomfortability of not achieving our goals becomes the norm. We become conditioned for it. We don't know what it's like to actually succeed and do the thing that we've been setting out to do. And that's super scary because as humans, there's this need, this desire to control, this desire for certainty. And that being uncertain feels just, I mean, it's scary. We don't know what to expect. So why do we do this? Why do we self sabotage? My perspective, and I know this is Kamini's opinion on this one. I do think that some of it has to do with controlling fallout.

It's a protection mechanism. It's the part of us that doesn't want to get hurt. If we do self-sabotage, there is an element of that part of us feeling like, well, we see it coming. It's almost like when you're in a car and you see somebody from your rear view mirror, you can somewhat brace yourself for the impact. It's kind of like that with self-sabotage. If I do this to myself, I know it's coming. I can then brace myself for this fallout. And we tell

ourselves it's not going to be as bad. It's not going to hurt all of the things, even in that rear end collision that we brace ourself for, it still hurts. And that's the part that we don't really recognize when we're in the self-sabotage. This is a weird thought, but I remember a long time ago, and this could not even be true, but reading some sort of study that was said, often people who get in accidents that are drunk walk away because they don't brace themselves, because they're not fully there. So they don't do that. It almost oddly hurts less. So obviously I'm not encouraging drunk driving, but I think about this from, it's like, we're trying to control the outcomes. We're trying to brace ourselves. We're trying to protect ourselves. And I think we actually end up hurting ourselves more.

Whereas if we let go a little bit, we might be able to walk away from whatever happens a little bit. You're spot on. I actually ran my husband's personal injury firm for a while. And so I actually, there are studies that say those that brace themselves for the impact because their body is so tense, they actually do feel that impact more than if somebody who doesn't necessarily know it's coming, they still get hurt, but their body is more, it's just fluid. It's more just malleable, so to speak. Same concept and you're spot on. I think what happens is we're trying so hard to control the outcome that we end up setting

ourselves up for even more disappointment than if we allowed ourselves to be present for the process. Yes, we're setting a goal, but we're present for the process. Yes, we're setting a goal, but we're present for the process. We're here in the moment. That allows for, if it doesn't work out, it's not gonna be as disappointing because we were present during the process.

We gave ourselves the opportunity to learn and to experience during the process. So we can actually take that information now and use it to move ourselves forward. I also think as it relates to confidence, it's a great opportunity to choose and build that trust within ourselves. And the trust can just be, I'll be okay no matter what. Or there is a learning, a lesson, opportunity, something in this experience that, as you

said, if I stay present for, I'll come out the other side of this better in some way. I often think, and I say this a lot, it doesn't make it suck any less when you're in it, right? Sometimes things just suck, but there's that opportunity to trust in the bigger picture, to be present in the process, to not tense up that I think could create something bigger, something better for all of us. Absolutely. Yes. And what you just said is really important. We're not saying that it's not shitty when we're going through it. You know, we're not saying that all, we're just going to name it. Like, yes, this is shitty. However, even in this, this crappy situation, this is what I can take from it. And I can move myself forward. And you said something very, very important, which is that's how we build confidence.

That's how we build self-trust because the truth is if we give ourselves permission to be present for the process, we're learning, we're evolving. That's how we're going to build the self-trust to know that no matter what happens on the other end, we will show up and deal with it. We will show up and do what's necessary. The self-sabotage keeps us from actually naturally showing up and facing what happens. It tries to somehow, it almost becomes inauthentic at that point because we're just sort of, we're shutting it down before we really get started. Yeah. It's just not something we'll ever be able to avoid. The shittiness of life, it's there.

It's coming for every single one of us. It doesn't matter how much planning or preparing. And I know that that's hard to hear, but I've yet to meet a single person, no matter what it looks like from the outside. I have not met anybody who isn't dealing with their own version of hard, their own shitty experiences, their own fears and doubts. Yeah, what you're saying is just spot on, right? Pain is an inevitable part of the human experience. Suffering is where we get to play with our choice points and how much we sit in it and what actions we take to move through.

But pain itself, like that's just part of the human experience. And the more we try to control, the more we're trying to almost take away from the human experience. You know, as a parent, that's one of the things, you know, you want to protect your kids. You want to keep them from feeling certain things. And we also have to realize that they have to experience some of that because that's part of being human,

trying to protect and, you protect and keep them closed in. We're actually taking away their ability to have those experiences and to learn and grow from them. Yeah. And we're creating a situation where at some point they're going to face pain because that's what life does. And we haven't prepared them. We haven't equipped them. We haven't built up their tolerance. And so even the little, and I put in air quotes, little things become really, really big things for them. And I understand with every fiber of my being, the inclination to want to protect your child. And we can't with them. We can't with us. And I think reframing it in that we're actually doing ourselves and them a huge disservice, again, doesn't make it any less shitty or doesn't make it hurt any less or suck any less, but it just is a good way to

reframe it. And I love the distinction. I'm so glad you said that between pain and suffering. I think that's incredibly important. So where does imposter syndrome or self-doubt contribute? I think for, for the work that I've been doing with my clients, I'm often seeing it, you know, when that inner critic is getting really loud, the inner critic is coming up and either saying, you know, one, especially with professionals, like you mentioned, I'm not ready for this. That's a big one. But then also I don't deserve this. People are going to figure out that I was a fake or a fraud, or just, I faked it all this time. And what happens is, is when that imposter syndrome or that self-doubt creeps in, now we're giving the inner critic a lot of room in our head

and a really loud voice. And when that voice starts to take over the ability to lean into things like confidence and just self-acceptance, that gets smaller and smaller and smaller. So eventually we're not able to move forward. And then of course we have, you know, that evidence bias that comes out, right? So now the inner critic's taken over, starting to push us down. And so now we start looking, we're not able to execute as we normally do. And so we're like, see, there's the evidence that all of this was just a fluke. I wasn't meant to have this.

And we, we continue to push ourselves further and further down into that rabbit hole. So when we're dealing with imposter syndrome, we're dealing with self-doubt. It is so important for us to name, name what that inner critic is saying, really recognize, like notice and name a, whoa, there's my inner critic telling me that all of this was just a fluke. And then we have to come back to the present moment and actually reconnect with ourselves and say, well, what's actually true about me here? What's actually true is I've put in X number of hours into learning this craft, or I've

put, you know, all of this effort into moving through X project or Y project. And I've really, I've really honed in on my expertise. I absolutely deserve to maybe put myself up for that promotion or that job shift or whatever it may be. It's, it's pushing it. We're not pushing away the inner critic because the more we try to push it away is going to come rearing back, right? She's that part of us. She's going to come rearing back louder and louder. We have to give her the space to say, I hear you and I notice you, but I'm also going to make a choice not to necessarily give you my energy right now. I'm going to let you be over here. It's like the roommate who is a really crappy roommate,

doesn't clean up after themselves. You can go sit on the couch. I'm just not going to hang out with you. I'm going to hang out with a roommate over here who actually is helpful. And together we're going to go clean the rest of the apartment, whatever it may be. Right. So we have that choice point. We get to choose for ourselves, which voice we're going to listen to. Absolutely. So I call the inner critic head trash because I want it to sound as dirty and disgusting as it actually is. And I'm right there with you. I think naming it is so important because when we don't do that, we often interact with it as if it's something else productive and more empowered. And the practice of that and the difference that it can make is immeasurable. I think my next question is,

a lot of it is subconscious, right? So we're probably not choosing to do this or even totally aware that we're doing it. So what might be present in our lives or what might we be looking for as evidence to know if we're self-sabotaging ourselves? Like, how do we know we're doing it? Yeah. This goes back to what you were saying in the opening. And I absolutely loved it because I talk about, I use this word constantly. My phrase, my catchphrase is compassionate curiosity. That's what we need, right? Because really what we're saying here is giving ourselves permission. We're not going to pathologize or diagnose ourselves. That's a very important distinction here.

It's an understanding. It's an understanding of ourselves. So when we're noticing that maybe the inner critic is loud or we're just noticing self-doubt creeping in, getting really compassionately curious, what is happening for me here? What is this about?

Where might this be coming from? Because a lot of times we can trace this back to previous experiences or messages that we might have internalized where they have become false beliefs. And once we become aware of those false beliefs, those limiting beliefs, now we're bringing the subconscious to the conscious, right? And now we can say, okay, I'm aware of this thing based on what's true for me, based on my core value system. What is it that I actually, what committed actions am I going to take to continue to

move myself forward? That's a different place than if we're just letting it sit in the subconscious and we're just on autopilot. So the way that we have to work through this is noticing, we'll see it. We'll see it in like stagnation. We'll see it in just that stuck feeling. Those people who might resonate with this, where it's like, I just, something's off. I'm feeling stuck. I'm just not quite there. That's usually an indication that there's something

happening under the surface. And that's where we call in that compassionate curiosity. Let me understand myself better. Where is this popping up? Sometimes we see it in patterns like, oh, it's popping up in relationships. Okay. That'll give us some indication. What's my story around relationships? Again, not because we're diagnosing or pathologizing. We're just like, okay, let me understand myself better. That's really what this comes down to is truly giving ourselves room to witness ourselves and understand ourselves.

So, so much of this is aligning with confidence. You know, the first part of confidence for me is knowing who you are. And it's not just self-awareness, it's self-appreciation, self-understanding. And as you were talking, that's what I was thinking about. And then as it relates to head trash or negative thoughts or fear or doubt, I often think that giving ourselves grace, communicating with ourselves the way we would someone we love if they were in the same situation is maybe not the answer, but it's a answer. It's something that helps.

What are your thoughts on that? Where does giving yourself grace play in to self-sabotage? Oh my gosh. Oh, that's yes, absolutely grace. And I love what you're saying because it's that concept of self-compassabotage. Oh my gosh. Oh, that's yes, absolutely. Grace. And I love what you're saying because it's that concept of self-compassion, right? Offering ourselves that same compassion that we would offer somebody else. It's noticing that if our friend or a loved one we're going through and saying the things that our inner critic is saying, what would we say to them?

And then turning that around and offering ourselves that same grace, that same kindness and that same love and understanding, we need that just as much. And so that absolutely plays a critical role in breaking down self-sabotage. Because if we just sit there and blame ourselves, what we're really doing is internalizing. We're giving ourselves internalized shame at that point. We're shaming ourselves for the self-sabotage. Shaming ourselves is not going to get us where we want to be. We actually have to say, yeah, there's nothing wrong with me here. There's nothing wrong with me. This is just, it's a limiting belief. It's a message.

It's a narrative I've picked up. I have the autonomy now though, where I can shift this and I can rewrite this for myself. How do I do that? Kindness over judgment is going to get you a heck of a lot farther. Couldn't agree more. And it's a really challenging habit to develop, I found, because we've all created the habit of saying nasty stuff to ourselves. That's easy, right? I don't have to think to do that. So any tips for all of us, for any of us who

want to practice compassionate curiosity more? Are there any steps, tactics, ways to do this, suggestions? I think of all the modalities you have a background in, is there anything that you find to be really helpful generally speaking? Yeah. So while I could say from a cognitive standpoint, just noticing the thoughts and then trying to reframe them, Absolutely. That could be one of them. But when we're talking about self-compassion, what you said is really true. And, you know, let's call a spade a spade. If we we've been taught to be super negative to ourselves, like that is automatic. Let me pick on myself. So sometimes we can do something as simple as go into third person, talk to ourselves as though, like I would say comedy, that's really harsh. What you just

said to yourself, is that really what you mean? Right? You go into third person because it is so much easier for us to be compassionate to somebody else. And it's a great concept of offer yourself the same love and compassion. You would have loved one or a friend cognitively. That makes sense. But from a habit standpoint, not so easy to execute. So how do we put this into practice? Talk to yourself like you're a totally separate person and offer yourself that compassion in that third person so that that starts building this muscle. So we learn how to be more self-compassionate. Interesting. And I can't for the life of me remember who it was, but somebody once told me

that in those moments, they talked to themselves in the third person, but they talk to the young version of themselves. And for some reason, like the level of compassion for seven-year-old you or 16-year-old you is way, way, way higher than today you, who we have all sorts of feelings about. You know, it's interesting. One of the things that I've said to clients too is get a picture of yourself as a little child or young child and keep that picture nearby

on your computer or something. And then when you are finding yourself, that inner critic is really chatting away, talk to that little girl, little boy, whoever it may be, right? And just offer that compassion. Yeah. Okay, so my last question is how do we distinguish between self-sabotage and external sabotage? There are some environments in relationships or in work

where you're interacting with somebody who is not on your side or who doesn't want the best for you. How do we know when it's us doing it to us or someone else doing it to us and distinguishing between the two? That is such a great question. And I think, especially if we've been self-sabotage, sabotage-ers. We almost gaslight ourselves. Like it's more difficult to see when it's happening externally. So that's when it's really important to, to slow down and to pay attention to things such as how are individuals showing up in relationship with you? How are they talking to you? How are they treating you? What are those environments like? Because those are going to be some indicators of whether or not, is it really you doing

it to yourself or is it somebody externally, especially in toxic environments like toxic workplaces? It could absolutely be somebody on your team, for instance, who might be sabotaging a project. And so it's really important to just pay attention to what is that dynamic between myself and that other individual? Is there mutual respect here? Because those could be some indicators, right? That something could be awry or amiss. But to your point, it is important to pay attention to, is this me or is this somebody else? Because if

it is somebody else, boundaries, I mean, we've got to go into the whole concept of how do we set boundaries or potentially choose for ourselves to move, move out of that environment. Agreed. And I feel like this happens more often than we might even be aware of. I've talked to so many women who have said something to the effect of, I didn't realize it got that bad, or I can't believe I stayed so long, or I didn't know how bad it was until I got on the other side of it or until I left or whatever. And this is in work and in relationship.

And I guess I said that was my last question, but maybe a quick follow-up is what role does an outside perspective potentially play in something like this? Like I often say it's hard to read the label from inside the bottle. And that's what I think of in those moments where you might be in a toxic situation is you might not know. How do you leverage outside perspectives without caring too much about what other people think in a situation like this? I truly believe in relying on maybe your inner circle. So there's people that you really trust and feel that you can be vulnerable with and also support systems like coaches, for instance, because a coach,

absolutely. When we're having conversations, like I know personally for me, I've been able to point out toxic relationships to my clients. I don't just come out and say, Hey, I think you're in a toxic relationship, but the dynamic between the two of us and how we're those conversations we're having allows for that space to occur. To your point, like you can't read the label what's right in front of you. The metaphor I usually use is if we're in the forest, we can only see the trees in front of us. But if we go up like on a hill, now we can see the whole thing. That's what that coaching relationship is about, is offering a little bit of space so that the individual can start seeing for themselves from a little bit of distance.

Like, oh, as an observer, this is what's actually happening. And then they start to name it for themselves. And it is really hard, I think, when we're in it, especially in toxic dynamics, because we're functioning within the parameters of that dynamic. And so we can't necessarily see it. So having those outside trusted sources to say, hey, have you looked at it this way? Are you noticing this? And still giving you the autonomy for you to name it for yourself, I think is really important. That's not to say, however, let me just give a quick caveat.

In domestic violence type situations, I absolutely believe that those trusted sources should name it and help that person see it because that's a dangerous situation. However, I also do believe in empowering people for them to truly come to that conclusion because if they come to that conclusion, it's intrinsic. They're going to own it and they're more likely to actually take action to move themselves forward. Well said. I wish we had more time, but if you're listening and you want to find out more about Kamini and her work, go to kaminiwood.com. She also has a free giveaway on her website, Eight Steps to Overcome Limiting Beliefs. She also has an app and you can follow on Facebook and Instagram. We'll put all of that in show notes. Kamini, thank you so much for this

important conversation. It went by far too fast. Thank you so much for having me. Okay. I'm going to close this out by asking you to stay curious about your metaphorical self-sabotage box. What did you find in there as you were listening? Were you surprised or did you already know what was in there? And the most important question of them all, what are you going to do about it? Maybe the answer is to pull something out and ask yourself if there's a different way to see it or a different use for it. Like, as an example, maybe it doesn't serve you as a toothbrush anymore because that's gross, but it can be what you use to clean your shoes or kitchen sink. The same thing might apply to something in your self-sabotage box. Maybe there's just another use for it. Maybe it's like that old dress you think you might just get one more use out of,

even though it doesn't even fit you anymore, that you just need to choose to let go of. Maybe you need to hire movers, i.e. therapists or coaches in this case, or call in some friends to help you get rid of it. Maybe the answer is to cross out sabotage and relabel the box shit I no longer need. Maybe label it to be destroyed so it doesn't inadvertently get put in storage or accidentally donated to someone else. As always, you are the decider of what you do with your own box. And I mean that in every way. All I care about is that you stay curious and in action about making sure that you're not the one getting in the way of your own goals. And here's what I do know for sure. Self-sabotage will only ever be unpaid work and we have been doing it for

far too long. Sabotaging yourself is most certainly not woman's work.