This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 165 / The Introvert Who Could with Andreea Sandu

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

(To take advantage of the FREE opportunity to give and get support on social media thru 12/31 click here: https://nicolekalil.com/apply and make sure to choose the “Likes Only” option) It took me a long time to not only understand my introversion but to appreciate it. To stop trying to be like the extroverts around me and recognize that being an introvert not only was part of who I am, but it’s actually one of my superpowers. And because somewhere around 40-50% of the population identify as introverts and close to 60% PREFER introversion, you either ARE an introvert too, or you love or work with one. So, we’re going to love on some introverts on our podcast today. Andreea Sandu is a Certified High-Performance Coach and author of  “The Introvert Who Could.” She currently splits her time between writing and helping creatives achieve their goals and considers herself a “visible introvert” on a mission to change how others perceive this personality type.  It’s my belief that the world needs more listeners than it does talkers, it needs more deep connection than surface level, it needs more thoughtful than it does charismatic, it needs more pauses than full steam ahead, it needs more 1:1 than social media posts, and it needs ALL of us, connected to our authentic selves, bringing our unique gifts to the world- REGARDLESS of whether you’re an introvert, extrovert, ambivert, omnivert or I-don’t-give-a-fuck-vert. Know who you are, own who you’re not, and choose to embrace all of it. Like what you heard? Please rate and review Connect with Andreea and Resources: Work with me:https://andreeasandu.com/peak  IG: https://www.instagram.com/by_andreeasandu/ LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theandreeasandu/ Book: The Introvert Who Could 

AmpliShip is when women support women publicly. I am committed to AmpliShip and I'm creating a space where women can connect, support, collaborate, and build each other up. Where we get more women on podcasts, support women in their book launches, help market their products and their services, get more women on big stages, make it easier for us to find great coaches, connect like-minded women who are up to big things through masterminds and retreats, and so much more. We've already kicked off this public support of women on social media by creating a way to find

and like each other's content. And it has been uplifting, inspiring, and impactful. And you can join us for free from now until December 31st of 2023. All you need to do is head to my website, NicoleColeil.com, click on the AmpliShip tab and apply. Make sure to click the likes only option anytime between now and 1231, and you'll be added for free. It's a small and important way to start. You get support and you give support. It's all about reciprocity and AmpliShip. Visit my website or click the link in show notes to join the AmpliShip social media engagement party. I am Nicole Kalil, and one of the things I know to be true about me is that I'm an introvert. Even more specifically, I'm an introvert who chooses to show up in places and in spaces where extroverts are expected. It actually surprises people when I talk about it.

In fact, most people seem to find the fact that I'm an introvert more shocking than the slew of curse words that fly out of my mouth like I'm a well-seasoned sailor. Apparently, they expected that for me, just not the introversion thing. I can honestly say that while I've been given lots of business and life advice that didn't resonate with me as a woman, I've actually been given far more that didn't resonate with me as an introvert. I've worked in environments and cultures that catered to extroverts. I've had people try to coach me out of my introversion, been invited to more networking events and happy hours where small talk is expected than I care to count. I've said yes to things that I actually want to do and then wished for a cold or a broken leg or something that would

get me out of this thing that I said yes to. I've been invited to spontaneous and last minute meetings or events where I've had to fix my face so that people who asked me can't tell how disgusted I am with the idea of doing something last minute. I've been put in study groups that I didn't ask to be in. I've played icebreakers where, frankly, I stuff and people until late at night only to get up and start the day with no breaks was going to be the end of my potential for success and that I definitely needed to be fixed because who in God's name wants to be in any kind of relationship with someone who requires alone time to function and equate spontaneity and small talk along with unexpected phone calls and visits with mild forms of torture.

Friends, it took me a long time to not only understand my introversion, but to appreciate it, to stop trying to be like the extroverts around me and to recognize that being an introvert was not only part of who I am, but it's actually one of my superpowers. And because somewhere around 40 to 50% of the population identify as introverts and close to 60% of people prefer introversion, you either are an introvert too, or you love or work with one. So we're going to love a little extra on some of our introverts on This Is Woman's Work today.

Andrea Sandu is a certified high-performance coach and author of The Introvert Who Could. She currently splits her time between writing and helping creatives achieve their goals and considers herself a visible introvert on a mission to change how others perceive this personality type. She lives in the UK and says if she's not working

or with her family, you can probably find her in a bookstore, which is exactly where you'd find me too, if you're ever looking for both of us. Andrea, my first question is, what exactly does it mean to be introverted? And what are some of the things that make an introvert an introvert? Thank you so much for having me. And it's a great question to start with because I think this is where we also get to decide whether we're going to be successful introverts or not. Because I've seen people who misinterpret what being an introvert means. For me right now, it means that I need more time than other people to recover after, for example, after I have the interview with you. It also means that sometimes

I need more time to process my thoughts. I do need to prepare before a presentation or before an interview. And it also means for some people, not for everyone, that there's more empathy, more creativity, a lot of deep thinking. This is how I see it now. It wasn't how I saw it maybe a year ago. If you asked me what being an introvert meant a year ago, I would have said negative things like, oh, I wouldn't be able to network. I'm very socially awkward. I don't like to spend time with people. I don't like people. Most of it would have been negative. And that was what was causing a lot of limitation in my life. Once I reframed, I redefined what an introvert means. That's when I opened more doors for myself because I didn't

have all sorts of thoughts that stopped me from being visible. Okay. So I want to dig into some of that because there's some visible. Okay, so I wanna dig into some of that because there's some powerful things there, but I can relate completely with the needing more time to both prepare for and recover from certain types of events. For me, it's typically more social in nature. Those are the ones that really drain me

at the highest level, especially social interactions with people I don't know well or at all. What are some of the myths that you think need to be dispelled about what it is to be an introvert? The first one that comes to mind is the fact that we're shy. There are also extroverts that are shy. It seems like people make this correlation between being an introvert and being shy, and it also extroverts that are shy. It seems like people make this correlation between being an introvert and being shy, and it's not the case. If I'm comfortable around someone, I'm actually okay with being on the spot. I'm not shy anymore. Of course, there's a little bit of anxiety in the beginning, but once that goes away, I have no problem being out there.

And the second thing would be that we need to change. We need to become extroverts if we want to be successful. Because yes, I think there's still this bias towards more extroverted people, especially in a corporate setting. I know I was there. And on every single yearly review, I got the same feedback. You should be more social, get out more, speak more in meetings. They wanted me to be an extrovert and I wasn't having any of it. Okay. So how do we begin to focus on some of the advantages or superpowers of being introverted rather than the perceived flaws? Being an introvert already has some superpowers, like deep thinking, for example. We can plan. We can have a big vision for our project. These are good

things, but it has to start with you. It has to start with you being aware of these things. And the first step is to stop focusing on only on the negatives and ask yourself, okay, what is it that is actually good for me here. Introverts are amazing listeners. And when you're such a great listener, you're an amazing friend. You can be an amazing coach. You can be an amazing leader, but you have to first become aware of those things. Okay. So let's talk about how we can get past. If somebody gives us, for example, you said in your review, you were constantly getting the feedback to be more extroverted or we are given maybe tips or advice that is aligned with a more extroverted personality or ultimately we're being told to

change. What part of that advice do we want to take in? And what part of that advice do we want to set aside or let go? Because I do think that there is an element of not saying, well, this is just who I am. I can't do that. So, for example, saying, well, I'm an introvert, so I can't meet new people and I'm not going to network. Well, yeah, that actually might impact my overall success. So how do we navigate the feedback and use what works and get out of our comfort zone while also being authentic to ourselves? Right. I always think

if I were to go back to corporate and have this conversation with my manager again, first of all, I would now recognize, back then I didn't have a name for it. I didn't call myself an introvert. Now I know. I would be able to have this conversation where I would say, these are my strengths, strengths. Let's use them. But also, I do need some boundaries to enable me to do my best work. For example, if we're in a meeting, don't put me on the spot without having some time beforehand to prepare for it. So I would mention these things that I would need to be able to do my best work. And on the other hand, I would also recognize that if I say continuously, I don't like meeting new people, I don't want to have people around me, especially in a corporate setting, not having influence will limit your career prospects a lot. And that would be the growth mindset. It's about just accepting that if you don't have a large network,

you won't be able to grow as much. It's so much easier when you have other people to support you. And that means actually talking to them. Sometimes, unfortunately. And so I like where you're going with this. And I think what I'm taking away from it is this idea. And I, like you, didn't know the word introvert or introversion when I was younger in my corporate career. So I didn't have, and I loved the way you framed that conversation. But what I'm hearing is this idea of what's the message underneath the message. So for example, if somebody tells me,

you know, you should go networking, you need to meet new people in order to be successful. What my brain goes to is thinking a big room with people with name tags and a bunch of people I don't know. And I have to introduce myself and make small talk. And that sounds like torture. I'd rather die than be successful. That's what that takes. But I think what the advice is, is that you, as you said, need to build your influence and you need to make connections. And that advice is really quite good. It's the how to that might differ. So for me as an introvert, I might not go into the large networking room where I don't know anybody. I might rather choose to build that influence and make those connections on a one-on-one

basis or small group or something more intimate or ask somebody I know to help make a connection to somebody that they know. So there's that commonality and credibility already walking into the room. All of that to say, the advice might not be all bad, but the opportunity I think is for us to think about, okay, how do I do that in a way that works for me and plays to my strengths versus that extrovert strengths? Any reactions or thoughts about that? Yeah, my thoughts went to the word alignment, which we now throw in all directions. And we talk about alignment a lot. And for an introvert,

we might think that living in alignment would mean to not do any of the social interactions, to not learn the social skills. Because honestly, that would be the easy way out, right? However, how I see alignment now is I will still do the hard things. I will still learn the people skills, but in a way that works for me. Yeah. It's the difference between the awareness that discomfort is a requirement for growth.

We all need to be willing to get uncomfortable to get better. But there is a difference between something being uncomfortable versus something being inauthentic. And for me, checking in with myself on the distinction is really important. I have to do uncomfortable things all the time. I don't want to do inauthentic things ever because that never really goes well for me either. Okay. In preparation for this, I noticed that you'd mentioned the three comfort zones that we can split activities into. I'd love to learn a little bit more about that. What are these comfort zones? How are we splitting activities so that we don't miss opportunities to grow or live with extreme anxiety all the time. I touched a little bit on that when I was talking about alignment. But how I usually like to explain this is if someone wants to learn how to swim, there are teachers that would just throw them in the water and that person might not be able to cope with it. They will have extreme

anxiety. They will not want to go back in the water ever again. And there are also teachers that take you step by step and really leave you on the edge of your comfort zone. And from there, you just take a little step and the comfort zone expands and then another step. And again, the comfort zone expands until you get to the same point where the person who just jumps in will get maybe a bit slower, but you'll still get there. So we have the comfort zone where it's all nice and easy, but there's not much growth. And then we have the edge of the comfort zone, which I think this is where I like to play. And this is where many introverts like to play.

And then there's so far outside of the comfort zone that you can't even see it anymore. And whatever is in each of these zones, I think it's personal for each one of us. I mean, I don't like talking on the phone, for example. Yeah, I need it to be scheduled and I need to be mentally prepared for it. And it's not because I don't love the person I'm talking to or I'm not. I mean, this is like with my mom, my mom and I talk every Friday at 9am. We have it scheduled and it's in the calendar. I am mentally ready and engaged for it. If my mom calls me in the middle of the day, I'm more often than not going to decline or like, because I'm not mentally and emotionally prepared, but I absolutely can relate to what you're saying. I think all of my growth has happened on the edge of the comfort zone. And as I push against that edge, it gets bigger and I go further

and further. But if you push me into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim, you can bet your ass I'm never getting in the pool again. that's just too much too fast for me. So I like those comfort zone examples. One last question. Any tips or I think a lot of corporate environments or cultures do set up a lot of things with extroverts in mind. Lots of happy hours, lots of, you know, big group events, lots of happy hours, lots of big group events, lots of public recognition, lots of things focused on the people part, which nothing bad with any of those things. I just think they could be balanced out with some things that might appeal to the more

introverted members of that organization. Any ideas or tips of what organizations might be doing to help create that balance and to serve their introverts at a high level as well? Something that I actually requested back when I worked in a corporate environment was that when we had our social events for them to be during working hours, because it didn't feel fair to me to spend even more time away from home because I didn't get enough time then to recover to be able to come back the next day and feel refreshed because I spent all day with my colleagues and then another few hours afterwards with them. And then got home way too late to even feel like I have a life outside of work. And they actually listened to me.

And we've had social events during working hours. I was very grateful for that. It also depends what kind of events happen. One of them was an escape room. I love them. Maybe many introverts love them just because of the thinking part of it, the puzzle solving. I love that. I was also in a smaller team, so that worked perfectly for me. So yeah, maybe these kinds of events that are not super

loud in environments that are very stimulating. Yeah. Both of those examples resonate with me completely. My husband and I have this conversation all the time where it's like, why does everything need to be in the evening and on the weekends? Like that drives me batty. And I would sign up for an escape room all day long. So I don't know if it's just the two of us or if that's good for other introverts too, but something that is a little bit more structured, smaller, intimate thinking, as opposed to the very unstructured, you don't know who you're going to talk to, what they're going to say, or what conversation you're going to get dragged into at a big happy hour with a bunch of people and drinks involved.

And that can be, I think, a little awkward and uncomfortable if that's the only thing. Okay, if you're listening and you want to learn more about us introverts, or if you're one of us and you feel like someone is finally speaking your language, please go to andreasandu.com

and you can find a link to her book, The Introvert Who Could, as well as ways to follow her and all of those links in show notes. Andrea, thank you so much for being here today. And before I close us out on this topic, I want to wish you, our listener, if you celebrate Thanksgiving, a wonderful day where you're stuffed with love and surrounded by family or friends who have become family. No matter what, I am grateful for you. And I'll share two hills I'm willing to die on as it relates to Thanksgiving. First, all the best people know that the true star of Thanksgiving dinner isn't the turkey. It's the mashed fucking potatoes.

And gratitude is wine for the soul. So go on and get drunk. Okay, so let me close out this episode on introversion for us. Like masculine and feminine, I see introversion and extroversion as more of a sliding scale than an either or. We all likely have some of both things inside of us. And for those of you who are like me that lean real hard on the introverted side of that scale, let me remind you that your introversion is a superpower and not an excuse to avoid the things that matter. You don't need to be fixed because you're not broken, but you do need to grow because it's necessary for all humans to do so. Because being stuck, disconnected, fearful,

or avoiding what matters is no way for anyone to live. It's my belief that the world needs more listeners than it does talkers. It needs more deep connection than surface level. It needs more thoughtful than it does charismatic. It needs more pauses than full steam aheads. It needs more one-on-one than social media posts. And it needs all of us connected to our authentic selves, bringing our unique gifts to the world, regardless of whether or not you're an introvert, extrovert, ambivert, omnivert. I don't give a fuckvert. Know who you are, own who you're not, and choose to embrace all of it. Because that's woman's work.