This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 184 / Ownership Mindset with Kerry Siggins

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

“Owners act and think differently than employees.” While that statement certainly applies to career and business, I want to go on record in saying that it applies to life and relationships too. An ownership mindset has advantages, creates success, and transforms your life – in every aspect of it. Kerry Siggins, CEO of StoneAge, Inc. a fast-growing manufacturing and technology company, joins me to talk about ownership mindset and personal responsibility. Under Kerry’s leadership, StoneAge has experienced double-digit growth, year over year, while transitioning the company’s ownership structure to an ESOP, ensuring that all employees share in the success of the company through employee ownership. Kerry is ALSO a dynamic, sought-after speaker, a podcast host, an author, blogger, and contributor to Forbes, Entrepreneur, and other major publications. It starts with you, of course – an ownership mindset couldn’t possibly start with ANYONE else.  First, you get to model it. And like attracts like, so when you choose responsibility and ownership you’ll attract and be attracted to the people who value it (and probably lose patience for those who don’t). While there are many important mindsets, an ownership mindset tops the list! Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Connect with Kerry Siggins: Website: https://kerrysiggins.com/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerry-siggins/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kerry.siggins/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kpsiggins Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsors: Head to zenimals.com/NICOLEMKALIL and use my code NICOLEMKALIL to save 10% off your Zenimal!  Whether you’re looking for yourself, your kid(s)/teens, as a gift for someone else - everyone will benefit from more moments of zen (and they offer discounts on bundles)!

I am Nicole Kalil, and I'm going to start this episode of This Is Woman's Work with a line directly from my guest's book, Owners Act and Think Differently Than Employees. And while we're certainly talking about career and business today, I want to go on record in saying that this statement applies to life and relationships too. An ownership mindset has advantages, creates success, and transforms your life in every aspect of it. When you have an ownership mindset, you are responsible for your outcomes, all of them, even the ones you don't like so much. You're empowered to make decisions and you're committed to making the best decisions that will lead to the outcomes that matter the most, even if those decisions are hard or scary.

An ownership mindset is about action, initiative, curiosity, possibility, responsibility, and well, ownership. At its worst, an employee mindset is believing that your success and opportunities are determined by someone else. You wait for someone to tell you what to do and what's possible for you. And you get so stuck on the small day-to-day shit that you never see the big picture. And no matter what happens, it's always someone else's fault. And let me be real clear on this. I'm not saying that business owners are great and employees are bad. You can absolutely be an employee

with an ownership mindset. In fact, that will increase your pay, create opportunities for growth, make you invaluable, and frankly, irreplaceable. And you can also be an owner with an employee mindset. That's toxic work environments, broken cultures, finger pointing, micromanaging, temper tantrums, and avoiding necessary conversations as examples.

The evidence will be in high turnover and unmet goals. But this isn't just about work. You can be in relationship with either or both mindsets. But let me tell you, the relationships where both people are actively choosing an ownership mindset are the healthiest ones, whether that's in romantic relationships, friendships, business partnerships, extended families, whatever. At least that's how I see it. Now let's see how the expert sees it. Carrie Siggins is the CEO of StoneAge Inc., a fast-growing manufacturing and technology company based in Colorado. Under Carrie's leadership, StoneAge has experienced double-digit growth year over year. In 2015, she successfully transitioned the company's ownership structure to an ESOP, ensuring that all employees share in the success of the company through employee ownership. Carrie also acts as a board member and business advisor due to her

success and experience in scaling companies and building world-class cultures. And because running a company where everyone has an ownership mindset opens up possibilities, Carrie is also a dynamic sought-after speaker, a podcast host, an author, blogger, and contributes to Forbes, Entrepreneur, and other major publications. All right. There's lots of talk out there about mindset these days. So would you please define what you mean when you say an ownership mindset? Yeah, it's, it's taking responsibility for everything that happens in your life and leadership. And, and that's not necessarily a common mindset, like as you so articulately put, there's definitely a culture of blame, deflect, kind of pointing fingers the

other way. But it's so empowering when you own everything that happens to you. So at the very foundation and ownership mindset is the mindset of things don't happen to me. They happen because of me and I'm in control. I'm in charge of my reaction, my response, and how I'm going to show up in this situation, whether it's in a relationship at work, uh, at home, uh, in the community, you get to own how you respond, how you react, how you show up. And that's at the very base foundation, what the ownership mindset is. Okay. So I think it's easier to see the ownership mindset and action for leaders or owners. Not that I'm saying leaders or owners

are doing this very well, but I think it sort of ties a little bit more clearly together. If you're an employee, what would it look like to have an ownership mindset and how does this benefit you and everyone else? Yeah. So an ownership mindset from an individual contributor and in the workplace, it would look like I'm raising my hand. I would like to take on this project, even though I'm not a hundred percent sure if I have the skillset to do it, but I want to learn. It would be talking to your boss about your career trajectory saying, I really want to grow with the company and here are my ideas. What do you think? How can we partner together so that I can gain the skills and be able to grow the way I want to grow? It's, I made a mistake, raising my hand, I made a mistake. I really screwed this up. I'm really sorry. Here's how I'm going to fix it. It's man, I'm having a really tough day and I'm grumpy and I don't want

to do or say anything that's going to damage a relationship. So I'm just letting you know that I'm having a tough day. I'm owning, I'm owning it. But I also just want you to know that, you know, if I, if I get snippy, it's not because of you. It's because I'm just dealing with something really big. Those are all examples of, and that's just like being human, but those are all examples of how people can own it in any role that they're in within a company. So you gave great examples and I want to circle back on a few of them because they're like my love language in business. So when somebody makes a mistake, which we all do and is inevitable, the owning part of it, like that, hey, I messed up or I made a mistake or whatever it is. But the

follow-up part that you said, I think is the biggest difference maker is here's how I'm going to fix it. Or here's my solution or here's my suggestion, the one extra step to not just come with somebody with a problem, but to come with potential fixes and solutions. I think that's incredible. And I would imagine anybody in any business loves that. Yes? Absolutely, because you do.

I mean, it shows that you're not just going, oh, I'm sorry. It's I'm sorry. And I've put the time and effort into thinking about how I can do it better, how I can improve, how I can make sure it doesn't happen again. And that's what anybody wants to hear. I mean, I tell all of my employees, we all make mistakes. In fact, I encourage it.

That's how we learn. We grow. We never look at something that went perfectly, that we did right and go, gosh, I learned so much from that. It's the mistakes that really teach us the life lessons that we need to learn. And so instead of being afraid of making mistakes or trying to hide them or shift blame to somebody else or something else, own it and really think through how you can show up better the next time. And, and I, not everybody, not every boss is going to take that. There are some bosses that, you know, we'll just come down on you for that. But I think the vast majority of people really appreciate that thought that you put into, here's how I'm going to make this better. Yeah. I mean, I remember telling my employees, like, if you have a question, come with a couple potential answers

to the question. And what I loved about it was it didn't put all of the burden or responsibility on me, but it taught them the skill of problem solving and it built confidence because nine times out of 10, one of their answers was the answer. And so they built that internal confidence of, I actually know what to do here and created less questions. You said one other thing, Carrie, that I just want to circle back on about raising your hand for opportunities. I do worry, especially knowing that the vast majority of our listeners are women with a bazillion things already on their plate. Any thoughts around raising your hand for opportunities, but also being mindful of boundaries and not overextending yourself or not raising your hand for every opportunity?

How might that play into an ownership mindset? Yeah, absolutely. I have a chapter in the book that talks about that balance. And I believe that work-life balance is a, absolutely. I have a chapter in the book that talks about, you know, that balance. And I believe that work-life balance is a farce. I mean, it's really about integration. But you have to know what you want to be really good at so that you can raise your hand for the appropriate opportunities. Back when I was pregnant with my son in 2012, prior to being pregnant with him, I raised my hand for everything. I had to be involved in the community. I was growing this business. I was traveling, meeting customers. I said yes to everything. And being in your late

twenties, early thirties and without children, it's easier to be able to do that. And I was burnt out. And about two months before I was due, I called my mom and I was crying. I was like, I suck at everything. I'm doing everything just, you know, with just mediocre. And she said, name three things that are the most important to you. What do you want to be really good at? And I was like, well, I want to be a great mom. I want to make sure that I take care of myself. My health is something that's really important to me. And I want to be a really great CEO. And she said, well, then stop doing everything else that isn't those three things. And that was such great advice. And I did it and I got rid of all my board seats and all the things that were just going to

take away my time from really showing up to those three things that were most important to me. And it allowed me space to have the opportunity to go after what I want in those areas. And so even though I was afraid of, you know, passing up a great opportunity or having someone judge me because I was saying no, although most people were saying, I wish I would do this too. I found that I could be more by being more picky about what I said yes to, I actually was more successful in those things that were the most important to me. Great advice from your mom.

And I think so many of us, myself included, can relate completely to the opportunity that gets created when we narrow our focus and are really clear of what really matters. Okay. Let's talk about responsibility. Regardless of your position, right? Responsibility is an important part of ownership mindset. And yet I think when we hear the word responsibility, we often think burden or duty, and it feels like heavy. Why is responsibility an important part of ownership mindset and how can we look at it differently so it doesn't feel that way? Yeah. So I look at responsibility as, as really in two ways. One, the, the responsibility to take care of the things that you care about. There are a million things that we could say

that we're responsible for. There's a million things that we could care about, but really when we narrow down our priorities and our focus, there's a set things of things that we really, really care about. And I think that's where responsibility really comes into play is how do you take the responsibility to care about the things you care about and make sure that

you're doing a good job with that. So your job, your family, you know, whatever that is to you really get clear on that because then it doesn't feel like a, I have to be responsible for everybody. Like I am not responsible for, you know, X person's feelings, right? That is not in this realm here. So I'm not going to take responsibility for carrying that burden. Those types of conversations that you have with yourself, I think help you really get clear on what am I actually responsible for and what can I feel compassion for, but not have to take on the burden of responsibility. And so that has helped me really be able to delineate that because I used to feel that burden of I'm responsible for every single person who works for me. And in some

ways I am, but I'm not responsible for their decisions and, and their life situations. I'm responsible for creating a great culture that allows them to grow. But not for the personal choices that they make in their life. And when I was a young leader, I got sucked into those things and really felt that. So caring, taking care of the things you care about, I think is a really good way to be able to look at responsibility. The other aspect of responsibility that I think is a really important one is that the opposite of responsibility isn't your responsibility, which I think is a lot of people, a lot of people would feel the opposite of responsibility is blame. And I think when you

look through it through that lens, that really helps to do I need to be responsible for this? If I'm not responsible for this, am I blaming somebody else? And if it's not about that, then perhaps I don't actually have to be responsible for it. And, and so looking through it through that lens, I think also helps. The opposite is blame. Am I blaming in this situation? No, then I probably don't need to be responsible for this. And that helps me with my, you know, feeling of being burdened sometimes by all of the responsibility, the perceived responsibility that I do have. I love that because yeah, you're right. Those are the perceived responsibility that I do have. I love that because, yeah, you're right.

Those are the feelings that go along with it. The shame, the guilt. And I like what you said. The connection sort of came in my brain is that responsibility is a lot about choice. And one other thought, I had somebody tell me once responsibility is also about being able to respond and being conscious of the fact that, yeah, you can't control everything that happens, but you can always be able to respond in the best way possible. Any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's the one thing in life we can control. That's it. There's absolutely nothing in life that we can control except for how we choose to show up in the moment. And I think that is the simplest way to start thinking about responsibility. And so I love that you brought that up because you can say I'm responsible for how I'm going to show up. I, you can even say I'm responsible for setting a boundary here, right? This is something that I'm just not taking on. And that's really, really important. And that's okay. That is responsible, right? That's responsible, being responsible for taking

care of yourself for, for loving yourself for, for not overloading yourself. And, and I think when we, when we switch it and start thinking about it in those three priorities of what's most important, and those are the things I care about, and I'm taking care of those things. It really does help people feel more comfortable setting those boundaries where they might otherwise not have. Very well said. Okay. I have to ask on behalf of the people who are listening, who are leaders or who, you know, work in corporate cultures, how do we create environments or even work relationships where everybody has an ownership mindset? Like it sounds wonderful. I'm guessing a lot of people, myself included, aren't sure where to start and having that permeate throughout your entire organization. So it starts with trust. You cannot inspire ownership thinking in anyone if there isn't

trust. And so as a leader, that's the first place to start. How do you start building trust? Well, one, you be trustworthy yourself. So you don't have emotional responses, right? You don't blow up. You have predictability in how you show up. You are accountable for your mistakes. You are transparent in your communication, right? So you have to really say role model, how am I showing up to be able to create an environment of trust? How do I make it safe for people to speak up? And you set the tone as a leader. You cannot do it without trust. And so starting with role modeling is first. Second, building those relationships. You have to know the people who you work with. And for some of us, that's really easy to do.

We're connectors. Like I'm a connector. It's very easy for me to spend time to get to know not just the people who report to me, but everybody in my company. For others, we're not wired that way. But it doesn't mean that you can't still show that you care and that you still aren't trying to get to understand your employees and what's important to them so that you can help them grow. And then the third aspect of that is autonomy. You have to be willing to give up a little bit of control to let people have more control over their own work. And if you are the kind of leader who wants to just tell everybody how to do something,

or you give them runway, but then you tell them how they did everything wrong. There's no trust there. There's no autonomy there. And so you have to really be comfortable with letting people make mistakes and letting people do things their way. And that's really what people want, right? They want to know that they have the ability to grow within a company and that they have some autonomy over their work. And autonomy isn't just a free-for-all, right? Great autonomy is setting guardrails. Here are the expectations. Here's what success looks like. I believe in you. Here is how I'm going to invest in you to help you get the skills you need to do this. Now go do it. Go do great things. That is how you start to inspire ownership thinking in people. And there's a lot more aspects to it. There's giving feedback, but

all of those things are secondary to that feeling of trust and giving up a little bit of control so that your employees feel like they have autonomy in their work. Jay has been not so subtly hinting for a while now that he thinks meditation would make a difference for me because of how much it's helped him. But I've tried meditation before, and I can't sit still. And all I can think about is how I am doing it all wrong. So a little over a year ago, a close friend of ours got JJ a Xenimal to help her with the preteen feelings of anxiousness, overwhelm, and worry. And I've seen the difference it's made for her. So I'm starting really small with my very own Xenimal. Just like the one for kids, the one for adults and teens also has

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healthier, joy-filled lives. Okay. I feel like there are plenty of mic drop moments in there. So I'm hoping people will rewind and re-listen several times. And I'm going to ask a question that sounds maybe like I'm just re-asking the same question in a different way, but I think it's important. Sometimes we can identify what something is when we see what something isn't. What are leaders unconsciously doing? I'm assuming they're doing it unconsciously. Nobody would destroy a culture on purpose, but what are they doing that is getting in the way of creating this trust in this ownership culture? I think a lot of leaders feel like they have to be the ones to do it.

They have to be the ones to make the decision. And so, I mean, I just worked with an organization, just did a keynote with them, and they're trying to change their culture to the ownership mindset. And the motto of the previous leadership was don't hesitate, escalate. So what does that tell people? Do not make this decision. Don't hesitate. Don't think, don't try, just escalate it to management. What a huge missed opportunity to teach people, like you said, to help people gain that confidence. So I think a lot of leaders think that it all falls on them, that they have to be the ones to make the decision. And, and so I think that's a

big thing. And that comes from fear, right? Fear of failure, fear of somebody making a mistake and then looking bad, all of those things. So that's a big one. I think a lack of self-awareness is another one. Leaders very rarely get honest feedback. And that is really sad because we all need feedback to grow. And I tell leaders, even if you're not getting feedback, trust me, people have it for you. They're just not saying it. And wouldn't you rather know what people are thinking so that you can address it? And some people are like, no, but I think most leaders who want to be good leaders do. But if you aren't a self-aware, if you aren't understanding how you are impacting others, the things that you say you do, the facial

expressions that you make, how those are potentially shutting people down, then you're not going to create an ownership culture because people aren't going to speak up. They're not going to tell you what they think. They're just actually going to tell you what they think you want to hear. And that's not ownership. So those are kind of two really big areas where I think a lot of leaders self-sabotage ownership thinking. Phenomenal examples. And the one about, you know, don't hesitate, escalate. I couldn't think of a better example because again, they didn't create that trying to go against an ownership mindset. Exactly. It was, you know, something that made sense to them at the time and it had

unintended consequences that worked against them. So great example there. I'm curious about if you create an ownership mindset culture, how does decision-making actually work? If everybody's got ownership and everybody's making decisions, there are some decisions that need to be collaborative, or there are some decisions where it does maybe need to be escalated. How does that work? So we use what I call a framework for decision-making. There are certain things that you need to have policies on. And I am pretty much an anti-policy person, like only have policies for the things you absolutely have to have policies for, like per government regulations.

Otherwise, how can you create a framework for decision-making? And so that's how we teach people how to make decisions. And so it's not like this formal structure that we have and it goes in various, it takes on various forms and different types of decision-making, but you know, that's what it is. Okay. Do you understand what success looks like? Do you understand, you know, the goal of this project? Yes. Okay.

Here's what your decision-making authority is in this. If you have a question, here's who you talk to. And so we kind of create this framework and it really at Stone Age, it is our culture. The biggest thing that you have to do as a leader though, is if someone makes a bad decision or if someone, we, a lot of times we say it's a bad decision if we don't get the outcome that we wanted, but it could have been a good decision. You could have got thought through everything correctly, done all the analysis, you know, had every, had all the information that you could to make a decision and you didn't get

the outcome you wanted. It doesn't mean it was a bad decision. And so you have to be willing to take that on. And I think that tolerance is something that a lot of organizations don't have. And so then they either over policy because they just, this is how you make the decision. The policy makes it for you, or they have leaders who make that decision. So creating that framework of decision-making, and it really starts with clear expectations. Here's what success looks like. Here's what we're trying to do. Here's the vision of the project. Here's where the guardrails on, you can make decisions anywhere in this. And here's how you communicate about the decisions you make. And when people have that clarity,

it makes them feel more confident. Now it's not always going to happen just like that. Especially for people who have been trained to, you know's not always going to happen just like that, especially for people who have been trained to, you know, not to hesitate to escalate. But if you start to create an environment like that, you will see people making more decisions. Another way to do it is do not make a decision for people. I had an employee who had great ideas, but he didn't have confidence in himself. And so he would always be in my office and he'd be pitching me something and he's like, okay, but what do you think? And so I stopped giving him my answers. I don't care. What does it matter what I think? What do

you think? What do you think we should do? And so leaders can unintentionally squash decision-making by answering a question of like, hey, I want your opinion on this. Well, that feels good. Somebody wants my opinion. You have to be disciplined to say, no, my opinion doesn't really matter here. You walk me through your thought process, your decision-making process. And then, you know, I'll share any feedback if I have any, that really does help encourage people to, to trust their decision-making skills. As you were talking, two things kept going through my mind. So I want to talk about being anti-policy. I worked with a wonderful company, Veterans United, a couple years back, and they're pretty

anti-policy. And I was blown away and I wanted to hear more about that because I think the, I don't know, reaction for most people is there is a problem, let's create a policy around it. Or what we end up doing is creating policies with the worst employee in mind or with the one bad thing that happened. We make policies for the exceptions, not the masses. So talk me through the decision to be anti-policy and what are the upsides and challenges of that? Sure. So the reason why I'm anti-policy is that I think that it does not encourage leaders and managers to truly understand the unique situation. And there's always a unique situation.

And I agree with you. I think we make policies for, you know, the lowest common denominator or a big mistake. And we're not thinking through, well, you know, what if this happens? And then how do we have to apply this policy? And that's why the framework for decision-making I think is so much better. So we use this in COVID. And it was really tough for those managers who just wanted a clear cut different. Like, let's understand what happened here. And so we can, we can assess the situation rather than just this blanket policy that doesn't feel fair. And a lot of people want to put you, they, they, they create policies in the name of

fairness when really what's fair is people being able to have an opportunity to explain their unique situation and have it taken into consideration. And so that was a really, really acute way of seeing how policies could destroy a company and destroy morale. And yes, some people had different, you know, had different outcomes because of the way that we applied our framework for decision making. But every single employee felt like it was fair. Like at least my situation was taken care, considered, and we addressed it in an appropriate way. That's hard to scale, but boy, it helps people realize that my story matters. My situation matters. That really sealed the deal with my anti-policy. And we, I always was a believer in that. Like, let's not just make, have a bunch

of rules. Let's like, listen and understand what's going on here. But after COVID and that's where we came up with the term framework for decision-making within the organization, we apply it everywhere. And it is so much more helpful. And it's so empowering's where there has to be a lot of conversation around, you know, what are the guidelines for what we can do here? Like, for example, we do, we do sabbaticals here, we do not have a sabbatical program, we give people sabbaticals when they need it. And anybody can come and ask for one and, uh, and there needs to, you know, there's guidelines for that, but it's not like, okay, you've been here 10 years, you get a month sabbatical. Um, although I would love to start to implement something a

little bit more generous like that, but if somebody needs it, they have a mental health issue or they've got a family or they have a big dream that they want to go after, come and talk to us about it. And every single one of my employees knows that they have the opportunity to come and ask for that. To me, it's better than a policy. It's what our culture is. But it could certainly bring somebody up going like, well, why did that person get it and I didn't? And I think those are the downsides of it. It's fascinating. I think I could talk about that for a lot longer. And I know I said I had two things, but I'm going to skip the second thing because I have to ask this one last question.

What do you do if you're working with or in relationship with somebody who refuses to be responsible? Oh, that's such a tough one. Sorry, I ended up on that really simple, easy question. No, no, you know, well, I mean, it's not a cookie cutter answer. It depends on the situation for me as a leader. If people aren't accountable, they can't work here. It just does not fit into our culture.

So, uh, so for us, it's a hard, no, we don't just give up on people. We try to teach them. Um, but a lot of people like that's something that's really ingrained. I would say the best thing you can do is try to compartmentalize and isolate that as much as you possibly can. If it's a spouse, that's really tough. Because, you know, you have to really be able to work through, you know, what that looks like, you can't just say, Okay, I'm only going to engage, you know, in these situations here. And so one, you've got to role model it to you've got to talk about responsibility and, you know, and how we take responsibility in those things. And then three, if it is in a relationship like that, I think you have to work with somebody to get help with it. Because it's, it's a really,

really tough thing for people who have been so ingrained to not take responsibility in their lives that they're just not going to get it by you telling them, nagging at them, even role modeling it. My husband had an accountability issue. He grew up in a family that there was no responsibility taken at all. And so it was a real issue for us. And we went and did not

counseling, but like a coach, we hired a relationship coach. And she was able to really help him see that not taking responsibility was damaging his relationships. And so that was good, because I needed to have somebody in there to be able to help me, to be able to take the pressure off of me to have that conversation with him. So that's a really tough one. But in a work environment, try to isolate yourself as much as possible because it's a really tough, tough thing for people to change. And you probably need some help if it's a, I absolutely refuse to take any responsibility. If you're a leader, don't allow it.

Like it's just the most toxic trait you can have in your company. And you just can't tolerate a lack of responsibility and accountability. Excellent advice. Thank you for handling such a big question so well. And I appreciate you sharing a personal example as well. Okay. So if you're listening and you want to learn more about having an ownership mindset, go to kerrysiggins.com. She also has her book, Ownership Mindset, which you can find on her website and we'll put everything in show notes. Kerry, thank you. This was such an important

and awesome conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. All right. As women, I think we often associate the word responsibility with having more shit to do and more people counting on us. It can feel heavy like a duty or a burden, and I'm pretty sure you don't need any more of that. So when I invite you to claim responsibility and ownership at work and in your life, that's not what I'm talking about. It might take a shift in mindset, but I advocate for an ownership mindset because I believe it's the ultimate act of kindness and self-care. It's because I want you to experience the freedom that exists on the other side of it. Responsibility is an act of

courage and ownership is the healthiest form of power. It starts with you, of course. An ownership mindset couldn't possibly start with anyone else. You get to role model it. And like attracts like. So when you choose responsibility and ownership, you'll attract and be attracted to people who value it and probably lose some patience for those who don't. So while there are many important mindsets, an ownership mindset allows you to choose. And that, my friend, is woman's work.