This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 192 / How To Ask For Help with Dr. Cynthia Bentzen-Mercer

Starting point is 00:00:00 I have never had a piece of technology have such a profound impact on my well-being until I got my aura ring. Let's be real. Most technology has me wanting to chuck it out a window. So as somebody who's committed to my own self-discovery and longevity, this little wearable has been a game changer. If you're on a journey to prioritize your health and reconnect with your own body, I can't recommend the Oura Ring enough. It's not just a wearable, it's a partner in your wellness journey. Check out the link in show notes or go to OuraRing.com forward slash T-I-W-W to get your own. I'm Nicole Kalil, and we're covering a topic today on This Is Woman's Work that I have been historically bad at. Like if life gave us grades, I'd probably get a D minus on this one. And while

Starting point is 00:01:00 I have no goal to be a straight A student, and let's be real, nobody gets A pluses on all aspects of life, I do think this is a subject I'd like to bring my grade up in. I've been actively working on it and have been giving myself a lot of grace, which often looks like me reminding myself that I've spent probably 30 years being really bad at this, so it's unreasonable for me to be great at it right away. I get to practice, and maybe equally as important, I get to shift my mindset about it. What is this thing I historically suck at?

Starting point is 00:01:35 Asking for help. Let's quickly review my history book. As a recovering perfectionist, I was highly self-critical and thought asking for help was both a sign of weakness or incompetence, and I'm not sure which of those I hated more. I thought that if I did everything right and that if I gave enough to others, that people would come along and offer me help. Basically, I thought I needed to earn it. I did this unconscious thing where I kept score, but for every 100 times I gave

Starting point is 00:02:06 support, it maybe earned me one time where I could ask for it. I thought being an independent woman meant that I needed to do it all, have it all, and be it all. And anything that I couldn't handle on my own meant that I was somehow less than. I lived by the mantra, if you want it done right, do it yourself. I can say that in more recent history, I've practiced asking for help because I recognize that perfectionism is the enemy of confidence. And by the way, it's also super annoying. But the way I've practiced has been a lot of hinting or being oddly vague. I've asked without actually asking. I've inadvertently turned it into a quid pro quo. And in some cases, I've even nagged. I've also experienced the sadness and disappointment that can come when you ask for help,

Starting point is 00:02:58 but then don't receive it. So while I'm definitely improving my grade here, I still have opportunity for growth. I bet the same is true for you. So how do we learn to ask for help? Well, ironically, we ask for help. So I've invited the expert. Dr. Cynthia Benson Mercer is the co-founder of Zeal of the Heal, a business executive, human capital strategist, author, and executive coach. As a working mom and breadwinner serving in a predominantly male-led industry, she has

Starting point is 00:03:31 often been the youngest and only female on the executive team. Navigating her career in gaming, hospitality, and healthcare while raising two young children and pursuing advanced degrees, Cynthia has experienced the joys and the challenges of trying to have it all. Cynthia and Kimberly Rath worked together to co-author their new book, Now Near Next, an essential guidebook for women to promote their skills and accelerate their careers. And I'm sure each of them could have written this alone and have written books on their own. But in the spirit of collaboration, which is a nice word we use a lot in business that actually means asking for help, they did it together.

Starting point is 00:04:13 And Cynthia is here to help us get better at asking for help. Cynthia, thank you for being here. And I want to start by asking why you say asking for help is liberating. Yeah. First of all, thank you, Nicole, for having me. I think the reality is it's liberating because when we allow other people to support us in ways that we need so that we can focus our time and attention on sometimes higher value items or higher value places where we need to put our time and energy and priority. It takes something off our plates. It takes something off our shoulders, but it becomes liberating when we let it go. When you talked about in your opening that being a perfectionist, right? So if you're going to ask for help and then judge the way someone else helps you, that's

Starting point is 00:05:12 not liberating. That's stressful for both of you. Yeah. Okay. So I want to hone in on that without judging how they help us because I am famous at this. How do we uncover or discover how people want to support? So I believe if people love us, respect us, care about us, they want to help. But that doesn't necessarily mean they want to help in the way we want to help. So how do we figure out what to ask for or what they might want to help us with? Does

Starting point is 00:05:48 my question make any sense? It does. It does. And I think it has to do too with who you're asking, having insight into where that individual excels and shows up. I wouldn't ask my daughter, bless her heart, to clean my house. I would not be delighted with the outcome. But asking her to run an errand for me or asking her to do something that requires creativity or making a phone call, the kinds of things where I know she is good at doing it, it doesn't create more work for her. And my expectations are clear, I think is so important. I also think we have to be clear when we're asking for help.

Starting point is 00:06:33 This is what we need. This is what this is going to do for me and how this is going to help me and why this is going to help me. Is this something that you can do for me? It sounds very much like delegation and it is. And I think that's the other part of why it's liberating because as women and particularly professional women, but even people like my daughter who is a stay-at-home mom with a whole lot of side hustles, there's just times that you need to be able to be really clear on what it is you need and why you need it. And then people I think can come through for you because they're not trying

Starting point is 00:07:10 to read your mind. Great advice. And when you said it's basically delegation, I had the thought of like asking for help needs a rebrand. It's a delegation, it's collaboration. It's such a more empowered way to look at it. I think, I don't know if anybody's like me, but the asking for help almost has a negative connotation that I'm having a hard time letting go of or reframing. So let's give it a rebrand. Absolutely. So I shared a few of my own, but in the work that you do, what do you see as the predominant limiting beliefs that women have when it comes to asking for help or delegating? You mentioned this, and I think it's thematic. We interviewed 30 women through our qualitative work, and then we studied several hundred women through quantitative work and a deep research dive, and then just

Starting point is 00:08:05 one's personal life experiences. And this notion that I'm not enough, or I'm not good enough, or I should be able to do it all myself. A lot of women, particularly in that sort of 30 to 50-year-old range right now, were raised by women who role modeled kind of doing it all. Now, we don't know. They probably had the same struggles that we all have. But in our minds, my mother being one of them, I thought she was superwoman. It seemed like she somehow managed it all. So I think it feels like a sense of failure, a sense of I'm not living up to all

Starting point is 00:08:44 that I'm called to be as a woman because I should be able to manage my very demanding career and raising a family and all that goes in between, and societal expectations. What are people going to think of me if I can't also make the brownies for the event at school or I can't also show up as a room mom once a month, or I can't also pick your thing. So we place so much pressure on ourselves from the, if I don't do it all by myself, somehow I'm falling short, either at work or at home, right? Because we should be able to ask for help at work as well. I'm not only falling short, but now society is going to look at me like I'm

Starting point is 00:09:27 falling short. I think I can relate to every one of those, which leads me to my next question, which is going to sound like a weird question, but when should we ask for help? And the reason I ask this is because I often wait until the breakdown occurs, right? Like until I'm totally burnt out and I desperately need help and there's no other option. And I'm just going to assume that that's not the best way to do it. So when should we be asking for help? Well, there's always going to be those times, right? That things just collide and you're at that point where you realize that it's just too much and you're going to need to ask for help.

Starting point is 00:10:07 And so obviously in those times, certainly it's recommended that you do so. But to your point about how do you get proactive about it, one of the things that we think a lot about and study is this notion of boundaries. One of the things we find is that women tend to take on more volume versus value. And that's in all parts of their life, but particularly in their professional lives. We are the ones that absolutely will do that. We're the go-to people. People come to us.

Starting point is 00:10:39 We're nurturing. So we're happy to lean in and be that team support and that team player. And we do that at home and we do that at work. And so what we ask women to really challenge themselves with is what are the things, if you were to step back, that let's start at home, that you could delegate to other members of your community? And think about it from the perspective of don't give up the things you love to do. If you love packing your children's lunches, don't give up that duty. If you love giving them a bath, don't give up that duty. And for women that, you know, have, are empty nesters, if they're certain, if you love grocery shopping, don't assign that to somebody else. But if you're like me,

Starting point is 00:11:20 and you don't have time for grocery shopping, and you don't love grocery shopping, I have my groceries delivered to my door. That's something that I committed to that it just helps me out. So where can you to a spouse, a significant other, children that are old enough to take on, neighbors and friends that are willing to help? And it doesn't have to be quid pro quo. It doesn't have to be because that person is doing a certain part of carpooling, by way of example, that you have to show up and do your part of the carpooling. There's other ways that you can give back to, as you said, a thousand things before I feel like I can make the one ask.

Starting point is 00:12:01 What are you showing up and volunteering for, number one, and how are you being discerning about that? Again, excellent advice. And I couldn't, when you said volume over value, it like hit me in the gut because I see that as being true everywhere I look and almost every woman I interact with. And I'm so glad too, that you said paying attention to the enjoyment of the things that you're doing. I do appreciate thinking about the value from a productivity or maybe profitability standpoint. I think that that's smart, but far too often though, we end up stopping doing the things that give us joy or doing things just for the sake of enjoyment. I think that that's really important to do too.

Starting point is 00:12:48 So I'm glad that you said that. You mentioned a few things. I'm curious her perspective on this. If we think about the different types of help that we should be considering, you mentioned the neighbors and grown children. My daughter's 10. We're starting to give her some things that are her responsibilities. I have two sort of non-related questions. First is any tips for

Starting point is 00:13:14 getting the support you need professionally? Like most of the examples we've talked about have been more in personal life. Any tips for professionally? And then I'll ask my second question. Yeah. For me, I think it comes back to this volume over value perspective. One is it's having boundaries when you're being asked to do things. And when I say value, just to be clear, it's much more like you were considering it. It's different than just profitability. It's value from an intrinsic satisfaction. It's value from it's going to grow your career. And it's value from it is a positive personal branding. If you're always showing up just doing other people's work that they're constantly asking

Starting point is 00:14:00 you to take on, that becomes your personal brand. And if you're good with that, that's fine. But most of us want to be known for the higher level value that we can add in an organization. So part of it is knowing when to not take on those tasks. The other part of it, as you were asking, is how do we ask for that help? And I find that asking for that help is looking to individuals that have a natural talent for a particular thing. So I am not a whiz on Excel and doing those kinds of spreadsheets.

Starting point is 00:14:37 So I identify people in my professional community, if you will, that are really good at that. It comes really naturally and they're fast and they like doing it. And to reach out and say, hey, you know, Sally, you are so amazing at this and I just need this really quick favor. Would it be, you know, it'd be great if you could help me with this. People like offering help if they're able to do something that they're naturally good at, that brings them joy, makes them feel good, right?

Starting point is 00:15:09 Because they're adding value. They're doing something. You're not asking them to go stand at the copier and make 100 copies of something necessarily. You might need help with that at times. So find that person that owes you one. But I think it's really about finding people that you are leaning into them and what they bring to the table and honoring them by allowing them to do something that fills their cup, that they're good at, and helps you out at the same time. And then being appreciative.

Starting point is 00:15:39 A big part of it is just being highly appreciative of the help and support that you're getting. As you were talking, it brings to mind so many conversations I've had with women who are either transitioning into a leadership role or have been elevated in some way. And it's that transition from being a doer to more of a overseer or a leader. As you were talking about that, I was thinking like of all of the high-level executives or business owners, nobody ever describes them as a jack of all trades or a Jill of all tasks. Nobody's ever like, oh, they get it all done. That's not the role or the goal of leadership. And how often we inadvertently pigeonhole ourselves and enable other people in a way to not do their work or to not learn or grow

Starting point is 00:16:36 themselves. And then I just love the idea, that reminder that just because we don't love it doesn't mean that there isn't somebody on our team or somebody out there who does love it and what a great opportunity for them. So all good stuff there. Now, my second thing, I'm curious your opinion on it. I have a little bit of a beef when we talk about asking our spouse or our partner or other parent for help. And I'm putting for help in air quotes. The implication is that it's my job as the mom or the wife. I can't handle it. So I need to ask for help as opposed to, no, we're co-parents. Absolutely. We both decided to be in a marriage or a relationship with each other. We seemingly weren't coerced into it. So like, I don't know, like on behalf of women who maybe don't get the help that they

Starting point is 00:17:34 should be getting, like how do we reframe it from asking for help from like, just, I don't know, do your part, holding to expectations. And do you think I'm just way off base? I'm just curious your response. No, I don't think you're off base at all. And I actually love that. It's a funny little aside. My daughter and son-in-law have three children, two, three, and 10. So busy mama, because she's a stay-at-home mom, as I mentioned earlier, has a lot of side hustles. And when she has things that take her away overnight or for extended periods of time, my mom, her grandmother will say, well, who's watching the children? And I'm like, their father. Like, what? Some of that's

Starting point is 00:18:18 generational, I guess, and societal. I would say this, I 100% agree with you. And that's where I think it becomes delegation as part of asking for help. So it's a nuance. If you always are the person that does a certain thing in the household, it's 90% of the time through the distribution of responsibilities, you always give the children a bath or sit down with homework or pack pack lunches, or what have you, and you have things going on to say, hey, I really need for you to do X tomorrow, or this week, or tonight, or what have you, I have Y going on, just as respectfully as I would think the spouse or significant other who always does some other task, whether it's take the trash out or what have you, would ask for the same.

Starting point is 00:19:05 Hey, I'm going to need for you to do this for these reasons. But I agree with you. It's less about we have to take it all on and now suddenly because we have these old fashioned gender roles or what have you that asking somehow makes you less than. And I think my daughter struggles with that, to be honest with you. She struggles with it with me and with her husband. She doesn't like to ask him to do things that she takes on, partly because she's a stay-at-home mom with side hustles versus somebody who works full or part-time outside the home on a regular basis. She doesn't even like me to help with laundry

Starting point is 00:19:42 or tidy up around the house when I'm there. I can tell it makes her feel defensive. And we've talked about it. You know, Jordan, why are you so balled up? I'm trying to help you make your life easier. And in a real crystal moment, it really was, it just makes me feel like I should be able to do all of these things. That's my job. So, so much of it we have to get out of our own way.

Starting point is 00:20:05 A hundred percent. And I think that it's, there might be a generational component of it, like you mentioned with your mom, but I see this with young women, women younger than me all the time, especially those that work from inside the home. And I often think, well, yeah, if you're a stay-at-home or work inside the home parent, and then your job is from seven to five or whatever, just like your spouse's work. But then in the evenings and on the weekends, then we share this responsibility. In my mind, obviously, I'm not the decider of what everybody should do in their relationships. I travel a lot for work and I've never once had to consider whether or not my husband could take care of my daughter for four days or that he wouldn't know

Starting point is 00:20:58 what to do or whatever. Now I do 0% of the cooking in our household or grocery shopping. We divide and conquer, meaning that like we each have our own tasks and we rarely do each other's stuff. But when he travels, my child doesn't starve. Right. Right? Like we don't just not eat. Like I figure it out even though it's not something I do on a regular basis. So I'm just, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:21:21 I'm a little confused about it, but that is a topic for another day, I guess. Well, you and I are in very much 100% agreement about that. And I think that, again, that becomes the difference of sort of negotiating those roles and sort of the light spirit of delegation or rearranging who does what from time to time. But yes, asking for help is different when it comes, I think, to the person you're co-everything with, right? Co-living, co-parenting, what have you. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:21:49 Okay. You talk about having a life's board of directors. Tell us more about what that is and what part they play in this notion of getting help that you need. So I came upon this concept years ago and it really resonated with me. And it's this idea of thinking about all of the people and starting big picture, starting with all of the people that have helped to form you positively throughout your life. And thinking about them and literally or figuratively writing them on a piece of paper around sort of a

Starting point is 00:22:26 hypothetical board table. And it could be a teacher or a coach, a parent, a sibling, a friend, et cetera. And so you identify these people, living or dead, that have had a positive influence on you. And then our advice is for those individuals that are still present in your life or could be present in your life is to, A, let them know that. Let them know, you know what, Nicole, you've really influenced my life in a positive way. And here's how. Here's how that has been formative to me. And I'm just grateful for that. And I want you to know that it's very filling for the person who's receiving that information. It also reminds us that we should be that for others.

Starting point is 00:23:14 We should be thinking about whose life's board am I on? And how am I filling their cup? How am I investing in them? And I think when we really approach life support directors, it's more of a professional approach to asking for help. It obviously can be used personally as well, but it's really about sponsorship. So often we keep our thoughts and our aspirations and our desires to ourself. And what we really recommend is figure out who those people are that are in rooms that you are not, that have seen what you're capable of, that know your

Starting point is 00:23:51 aspirations, that you've shared your desires with. And then those are the individuals you're just saying, listen, you've had this great influence on me. Here's my dreams and aspirations. And I hope you'll think of me if something comes or avails itself to you in a room that I am not. And it is amazing how often you get added to a committee or presented for promotion or considered for another job or what have you because somebody who cares about you and your success and has poured in and invested in you knows your aspirations and they're showing up for you.

Starting point is 00:24:28 But we can't expect them to be mind readers. I love this concept. My brain starts going to the tactical because you explained the who. Right. Is this something that's informal or formal? Do you meet with them as a group? Do you meet with them individually? Do you, you know, because when I think of board of directors, I often think of a group of people whose job it is, is to protect the interests of the stakeholders, right?

Starting point is 00:24:58 So, you know, how do we set that up in our life and our career? Is my question making sense? It does. It does. It does. And I think it depends on the individual. I think it can be what makes sense for you. At its core, I think figuring out the who, noting that, right? I think telling them, having that conversation, assume again that they're in your life and they have that opportunity because it's a meaningful conversation to that individual, number one, and then they're thinking of you, number two.

Starting point is 00:25:31 So those are the two things that I think are the tactical part. Identify them and talk to them and share your aspirations and your hopes and desires and dreams with them. From there, I think it depends on how they've shown up in your life and the role that they play. It sort of gets back to you don't delegate one size fits all. You may have somebody on your life's board of directors that you trust at such an intimate level that you can go to with really tough questions and things that you're discerning. And you know that they're going to be advice giving and they're going to have your back. There may be others that have some kind of industry expertise and you need their sponsorship

Starting point is 00:26:08 in a certain way because you're pursuing something. That may be somebody else that has been an entrepreneur and has fabulous business acumen and you're thinking of exploring something and you want to go to that person for some business advice. So I think it depends on who your life's board of directors are, how they show up in your life. The most important thing is to utilize them, right? So I've thought often about getting together the girlfriends that I have established over 30 years of a career that I've met at different points in my life. They live in different states. And I thought, wouldn't that be fun to have a life's board of directors gathering for a weekend with specifically the women of similar ages that I have had the blessing of getting to know over the years?

Starting point is 00:26:57 That isn't the comprehensive board, right? There's many other people that would be around my table, but that might be something that would be a fun way of saying, look, you eight women have had so much positive influence on me. I want you to know that. And here's uniquely how each of you have touched my life. And maybe that becomes some form of a group or a book club or some other kind of sisterhood that you take into the future. I'm still kind of playing with it in my mind, but I think there's something to be said for that.

Starting point is 00:27:30 You know, it's funny. I'm playing with a similar thing in my mind because those experiences have been some of the most impactful I've given myself or had the opportunity to experience through the course of my professional life and my personal life, frankly, to be in a room with a group of women that I respect and care about and who have nothing but my best interests and I have nothing but theirs. There's just something about that hive mind. I know the term mastermind, but it's a little bit different what I'm noodling on. So anyway, one last question.

Starting point is 00:28:08 Any specific tips when you're asking for help, like three tips for success or follow this simple formula type thing? Anything that we should always keep in mind when we delegate or ask for help? So I'm going to address that two ways because I think it's as important when you're being asked for help that you have specific things in mind as well. So I think it's reciprocal because we also need to be able to have boundaries and also show up for others. So I think when you're asking for help, be specific, have clear expectations, and ask individuals who have a natural ability, propensity, et cetera, to do the thing you're asking. Don't set yourself and the other person up for failure by asking them to do something

Starting point is 00:29:01 that going into it, you know that you might be a little disappointed and then release it. Perfectionism is not at play when you're asking somebody else to do something for you. If it gets done and it's not illegal or immoral and makes somebody's mama mad, then it's done. I think on the other side of that, what I would want to leave your audience with is we can create boundaries about being asked for help as well or when we think we have to do it all. And that is think about it in terms of time, talent, treasure, or no thank you. There are points along your career that you don't have the time and you

Starting point is 00:29:46 don't have the treasure. But could you volunteer something that is a talent? Could you make phone calls in the evenings or on the weekend? Could you do something else that doesn't cost you money and that you can do when it's convenient? Sometimes we have the treasure. We can say, you know what? I can't volunteer doing that, but I can pen a check for $20. And if that helps with school supplies or this charity or what have you or whatever, that denomination makes sense. And so you lead with treasure.

Starting point is 00:30:18 And sometimes it's time. Sometimes you can put yourself into a situation where you're volunteering because you don't necessarily have the dollars to give, but you can go be an extra person that can help with something. So I invite women to think about it doesn't have to be everything all the time. Maybe you can't do exactly what's asked of you, but is there another way to contribute? And then sometimes it's just no thank you. Sometimes it's just I can't right now. And we have to get really comfortable that that's sometimes the best answer for the person

Starting point is 00:30:53 asking and for ourselves. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. No is sometimes the best answer. And I really like thinking about it through that lens and being prepared because let's be honest, you know, women with a lot of capacity, as my listeners are, are always getting asked for help. So thank you for that.

Starting point is 00:31:14 All right. I have so many other questions I could ask you, but we're at time. Cynthia, thank you so much for your time and wisdom. And if you're listening, you must go to zealoftheheal.com to find and learn more about Cynthia and her work and their new book. It's called Now, Near, Next, and it's available on Amazon. So go and order your copy today. Thanks again, Cynthia. Thank you. Okay, friends, I'm going to practice our learnings because action builds confidence and practice makes progress. Will you please help me increase the reach and credibility of this podcast by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify?

Starting point is 00:31:53 And because I respect how busy you are, I'd love to offer two ways of doing this, one of which takes you less than 10 seconds. The less than 10 second option is to just hit the stars. On your phone, go to Apple Podcasts or to Spotify, find This Is Woman's Work podcast, and scroll to where you see write a review or you see the stars and literally just click the stars and hit submit. The second option is to write an actual review on Apple Podcasts. You follow the same directions, but instead of just hitting the stars, you write something in. Share what you like and don't overthink it. You might say, this is a great podcast, or I love listening to this on my commute to work. Or maybe share what your favorite episode has been, or if you just come here to hear me rant. Honestly, whatever is

Starting point is 00:32:40 true for you is great. And I'll share them in my Instagram stories because here's the deal. Your review matters to me. It contributes to how our podcast gets ranked across the globe. It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it gives us feedback, which is very tough to get in any other way. If you've already left a review, thank you, thank you, thank you. And feel free to grab somebody else's phone and do one on their behalf. I need your help and I'm immensely grateful for it. Now it's your turn to practice. Where would you benefit from asking for help? Who will you ask and who gets to be on your life's board of directors?

Starting point is 00:33:21 The people who love and respect you want to help. Sometimes it's just figuring out how they can help best and then having the courage to ask. But any way you slice it, my friend, asking for help is woman's work.

This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 192 / How To Ask For Help with Dr. Cynthia Bentzen-Mercer

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