This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 195 / Finding (And Using) Your Voice with Amy Green Smith

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

One of the most powerful things you have, that is directly linked to your confidence, is your VOICE. And I don’t just mean what you say, though there is so much power in that. I mean what you put out into the world for other people to see, hear, feel and experience. Your words, sure, but also the sharing of your beliefs, knowledge, opinions, stories. Your truth, as you see it.  Back in the day, very few people had their voices heard beyond their inner circle – but in an age of global connectedness that has changed. How do you, how can you, and how will you use your voice? Here to help us with all the how’s is Amy Green Smith. Amy is a certified and credentialed life coach and hypnotherapist, masterful speaker, and courageous communication expert. Amy uses her roles as coach, writer, podcaster, and speaker to move individuals to a place of radical personal empowerment and self-worth. With her focus on helping people “find their voice”, she is highly sought after for her uncommon style of irreverence, wisdom, and humor. There’s a quote that says “it only takes ONE voice, at the right pitch, to start an avalanche” – I share that as a reminder that your voice has power. Even with your knees shaking, palms sweating, with your head filled with doubt, your heart pounding with uncertainty, stumbling over your words – USE YOUR VOICE. Connect with Amy: IG: http://instagram.com/heyamygreensmith FB: http://facebook.com/heyamygreensmith LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heyamygreensmith X: http://twitter.com/heyamygreen Grab Amy's FREE-SOURCES at: https://amygreensmith.com/free       Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsor: For CakesBody’s grippy, not sticky, nipple covers visit cakesbody.com and use Promo Code: TIWW to get your 10% discount!

I'm guessing you do this too, but whenever I'm doing something big, something that makes me nervous, I have this routine that I follow. I listen to certain songs, I get ready in a very specific way, and I always wear my lucky bracelets. But I want to share a tip that I've learned from public speaking. Yes, have your good luck charms and even your superstitions, but what's way more important are the things that you choose that help minimize any possible distractions. For me, that means wearing comfortable shoes, so I'm not constantly thinking about how bad my feet hurt. are the things that you choose that help minimize any possible distractions.

For me, that means wearing comfortable shoes, so I'm not constantly thinking about how bad my feet hurt, or doing my hair in a way that it's not constantly falling in my face. And 100% of the time, that means wearing my Cakes nipple covers because they keep those rooms really cold, and everyone saying my diamond-cutting nipples would absolutely be a distraction for them and for me. So let me encourage you to add cakes to your big moments. Visit cakesbody.com or use the link in show notes and be sure to use the promo code TIWW to get your 10% off. I am Nicole Kalil, and I'd like to submit for your consideration that the most powerful

thing that you have, that I have, that any of us can have is our confidence, that trust and belief in ourselves. Not shocking that I would believe that, I know, but I think it's worth repeating. And maybe if I say it enough times, it'll really sink in for you, yes, but also for me, because confidence is a journey and nobody is 100% confident 100% of the time, except for narcissists and liars. So I also believe the next most powerful thing you have, I have, anyone has, is directly linked to your confidence, and that is your voice. And I don't just mean what you say, though there is so much power in that. I mean what you put out into the world for other people to see, hear, feel, and experience.

Your words, sure, but also the sharing of your beliefs, knowledge, opinions, and stories, your truth as you see it. Not just what you say, but how you say it. Your voice can convey love, kindness, empathy, confidence, all the good things, and it can also convey the not-so-good things as we see on social media every single day. This can be done on a large scale like stages or in podcasts, but it is equally important that it be shared one-on-one and with the people you connect with on a daily basis. Confidence is the ultimate flex. And when you trust yourself firmly and boldly, you share yourself through your voice. Back in the day, strength was power and very few people had their voices heard beyond their inner circle. But in an age of global connectedness, that has

changed. So you wonderful, uniquely designed, fucking magical human, how do you, how can you, and how will you use your power? Here to help us with all the hows is Amy Green Smith. And before I formally introduce you, I need to share that it was her voice that got her on the show. My team and I have gotten many, many pitches for guests over the years with a pretty massive uptick as of late. And I have to tell you that the vast majority of them are done badly. But Amy's will likely be one that I remember for a very long time. Another plug for using your voice is obviously it impacts other people like hers did me.

And it impacts the opportunities you create for yourself. Okay. Amy Greensmith is a certified and credentialed life coach and hypnotherapist, masterful speaker, and courageous communication expert. Amy uses her roles as coach, writer, podcaster, and speaker to move individuals to a place of radical personal empowerment and self-worth. With her focus on helping people find their voice, she is highly sought after for her uncommon style of irreverence, wisdom, and humor. Amy, thank you for being here.

And I opened the show by talking about using your voice. But in order to use our voice, we need to have first found it. So what does it mean to find your voice? Hi, Nicole. I'm so glad to be here. I'm so glad you're here too. I am so glad that you asked this question because I know one of your big pet peeves is when people say, oh, just go be confident. And everyone's like, okay, but how? And the granular explanation of personal development, I think, is what we really, really need and really tactical steps. And speaking up for yourself or finding your voice is another one of those catchphrases where we just kind of throw it out sort of in

the personal development sphere and people go, okay, great. I'm going to get right on that. How the fuck do I do that? And I think one of the easiest places is to look at where you've actually been silent. And so one of my favorite hacks is to check in with yourself about where in your life or with whom do you chronically complain about that individual or that scenario, and you have not given voice to that grievance to the appropriate party. Because for many of us, we might be really pissed at our partner, let's say, and our bestie gets the earful. Or we're really upset with a business partnership, but our mom gets the earful.

And so maybe we are being vocal. We're getting that out of our bodies, but we're not doing it within the party that could actually move the needle. So I'm not talking about just venting or releasing some steam from a difficult day. I'm talking about a habitual issue that you have with someone that you have leaned into the complaint as opposed to leaning into the remedy. That's the big change there that we have to look at. So I think for most people, we can do a couple of things.

We can look at our emotions as cues. When we're upset, when we're frustrated, when we are feeling something uncomfortable, usually there's some kind of messaging there of, I'm not being heard, I'm not being seen, my voice is not being flexed. And so we can tap into those emotional currents to go, okay, wait a minute, there's some messaging that's happening here. And that's why it can be so beneficial to look at what do I complain about the most? Who do I complain about the most? And would they have any idea that I'm this upset, right? Sometimes folks in our life might go, Nicole might have an issue with that or I got a funny

look, but they might not realize the gravity of how big of a deal something is to you. So I think starting there with just, am I bitching and moaning about something that I'm not willing to take action on? Because if it's worth complaining about, then it's probably worth getting into action around. It reminds me of something my coach often says, something to the effect of complaining is when you talk about something, you don't have the courage to do anything about. And I think there is an element of courage involved.

It doesn't take a lot of courage to complain to somebody who's not part of the challenge or the problem. It takes a lot of courage to address it directly. That's right. I think often when we think about what we're complaining about and then taking it to the appropriate person, we either worry about hurting their feelings or making them feel bad, or we worry about backlash and how that might come back to us. Any tips or thoughts there? Yeah. So this is one thing that I do think is exponentially worse for women or those who are femme presenting or identify as women because we are so conditioned that we are responsible for how everything lands and how everyone feels.

So we get the message very early on that, oh, you could never do that to her or say that to him. And the messages that we receive are ones in which we are responsible for everyone else's feelings and how they compute data. And the reality is, is we are only responsible for our intention, not our reception. That is one of my favorite mantras. So that is one tip that I would offer. Thinking about how much mental real estate takes up in our minds when we think about how somebody might receive something. So years ago, right around the 2016 election, I had released a podcast episode that had a little bit of a controversial sounding, antagonistic sounding title, but it was really

about how do we get through this very polarized time right in the face of holidays? How do we get together with families who are completely divided around this particular issue? And my perspective was one of coming together, communing with one another, having boundaries, but still being able to focus on meeting people where they are. And I'll tell you what, the reception was all across the board. There were some people who loved it and said, thank God, I had no idea how I was going to navigate the holidays. I had other people who said, you lost a listener. I can't believe you would do this. And I said, well, did you listen to the actual episode?

No, I don't have to. And I was like, all right, well, peace be with you. Don't let the door crack you in the ass. And then there were people who were totally indifferent and had the luxury of not focusing on politics, which I'm like, who among us? But when I went back and I looked at it and I said, okay, I can't control the reception all across the board. You simply cannot. So now the barometer of success needs to be different. Instead of this conversation will go well as long as my mom sees it my way, or this will go well as long as my partner agrees to do what

I want them to do. Instead, saying this will be successful if I show up in a way in which I am proud, that's a completely different rubric for success. So if I can think about, yes, there might be pain that's incurred. There might be a situation where either one person is going to be happy. You know, I've had this situation with my own story where I grew up in an extremely conservative, born again, Christian family. My dad had a master's in divinity and a doctorate in ministry, so he wasn't fucking around. And so as you can imagine, my mother and I have very, very polarized beliefs about, he has since passed. So my direct relationship is with her. So we have completely opposite views, politically, religiously, and we're kind of relegated to superficial topics because of that.

But I had to be willing for her to incur some pain, emotional pain, by me saying, please do not invite me to those events. I can imagine that having children who don't subscribe to the faith that you raised them in is unbelievably painful. And I also demand respect. So if anything ever changes for me, you will be the absolute first person to know. But until that time, I'm going to politely request that you do not invite me to church functions, that you don't send me materials, and really outlined a boundary. Now, is there pain that's incurred? Absolutely.

Did I show up in a way to inflict pain? Not at all. It is quite simply there's only one person who's going to be able to get their way. And I learned very early on that when push comes to shove, if I have to choose between making someone else happy or making me happy, I'm going to choose me. So I think we need to get past this idea that we're going to be able to have completely differing views from someone and be able to talk about it without pain being incurred. Think about every queer person who's come out to a family who didn't accept that. Is there pain that's incurred? Absolutely. But is it that queer person's pain to carry? No. It's about, did I show up in a way in which I'm proud? And then allowing other people

to be responsible for their own emotions. Okay. That's so much power in just a few minutes. I hope people rewind and re-listen to that. What I heard and I'm really taking away and want to reiterate is that what we can control is our intentions. And the best thing any of us can do is to show up in a way that makes us feel proud of ourselves. And that aligns directly with everything I know about confidence. So extra plug on that. And we have no control, even though we may have been socialized to believe differently, people pleasing and all of that. We have no control on how other people receive our intention or are showing up in a way that feels proud. Now you said, you know, I'm going to prioritize my happiness. I would reiterate and add like

prioritizing our truth and feeling proud of ourself, again, confidence builder. And that it's not that we don't care about other people's happiness. It's that we're not responsible for it. That's right. And we see this everywhere we look. Like I, I think of books that I've read that have literally changed my life. And some people give them one stars, one star reviews. And I'm like, how are we reading the same book? Right? Like, or, you know, I mean really anything, if you're doing anything worth doing, you're probably going to invite conflicting and different feelings and opinions and all of that. Okay. Which leads me a little bit towards the people-pleasing aspect.

I know that is a big part of your work. Where does people-pleasing and finding and using your voice connect, conflict, what are some things that we need to be thinking about there? Well, they are almost always antithetical. So they're directly related in that way, in the sense that if you are heavily enveloped in a people-pleasing behavioral tactic, usually that means you're not speaking up at all, right? So they're kind of antithetical to one another. But what we really need to understand is that, first of all, let's talk about what people-pleasing even is.

Because so many people who are really high achievers or maybe they're gregarious and outspoken or they're in high-powered positions, would not adopt the moniker of people pleaser. Because in our culture, we kind of see it as someone who's meek and timid and maybe a repressed posture, really shy, kind of the wallflower. And I think that's a really myopic view of people pleasing. I think people pleasing is truly when you are putting everyone else in front of yourself at a cost to who you are, at a cost to your integrity, to your wants, desires, and needs. So people-pleasing is also directly related to your sense of self-worth. Because if we are consistently

quieting ourselves, not speaking up, putting everyone else's needs in front of ourselves, every single time that happens, we're sending a subconscious message that they just matter more than me. That's a self-worth thing. That's, I don't matter as much. I'm not as deserving. I'm not enough. So understanding, first of all, people pleasing is just a high investment in the opinions of other people so much so that you twist and contort your own needs. The other thing that I think is really important in understanding people pleasing is that it's a primitive defense mechanism. It's directly linked to what is called the fawn response. So we've all heard fight, flight, freeze, and now fawn is a little newer on the conversation topic. But fawning is essentially if you were, you know,

primitively being attacked by a tiger, mountain lion, et cetera, would be to placate, to go, here kitty, kitty, here's some food. Go over that way. Right? Well, all of our fear responses have modern iterations. And the modern iteration of FON is two people, please. So if we feel like we might not be safe, let's say, as a child with an abusive parent or someone who abuses substances, and you've learned like, okay, if I just walk on eggshells, if I make sure dad's always happy or sister's always happy, if I can fly under this radar, okay, cool. I can actually stay safe. And so there are things like perfectionism or people-pleasing that pop up in the personal development sphere where we don't look at nuance. And this is one in which we need to. So I often say, you know, if I had to have brain surgery,

I sure as fuck hope that that surgeon is a perfectionist, right? Like there are times when it really is in service of us. I identify as queer. If I'm in an environment that is anti-LGBTQ and I could actually be harmed and hurt, if I start waving the rainbow flag and start calling people out on their bullshit, I might actually lose my life, right? So there are situations in which we do need to people please in order to stay safe. So understanding those two key pieces, I think are crucial because in a work environment, people pleasing could actually get you where you need to go. I would say far more often than not, however, we are people pleasing in search of self-worth, not out of self-preservation. So we are saying, I need you to approve of me or love me or accept me in order for me to see my own truth and my own value. So understanding those pieces of nuance,

I think are really important as well. Agreed. So many things that you said in there, I want to circle back on, but I want to say how much that spoke to me personally. And I don't want to hijack our show, but in a way that looked different, right? So you talked about, you know, when we think of people-pleasers, we think of wallflowers and doormats. Nobody sees me as either of those, but I was using the same strategy for a different thing. And you also talked about, you know, this sort of core belief of not being enough. I'm curious because I definitely have that in certain aspects of my life, but what I often find is the fear of being too much. So my people pleasing

often plays out in holding myself back or keeping myself or my voice a little smaller than maybe I authentically want to be because I'm afraid I'll be too much and it'll piss people off and all that. Now I've turned this into a personal coaching session, but any other reactions on that? I love it. I love it. Yeah. So it can show up in a litany of different ways. And I'm so glad that you brought this up because this is one way that we squash brilliant, vibrant women in our culture, right? And you really are damned if you do, damned if you don't, right? It's like you're too loud or you're too quiet or you're too sexy or you're too prude or you're, you know, it's like you're too loud or you're too quiet or you're too sexy or you're too prude or you're, you know, it's like you're too successful and you're a ball buster or it's like, oh, you don't have ambition. And again, this is why I think we have to focus on our intention rather than our reception because it will be all the way across the board. But there will be people who are threatened by a loud or brilliant or vivacious opinionated woman. And that's not going to stop. There's this great quote, and I wish I knew who

said it, but I'm sure you've seen it floating around. And it says, if I'm too much, go find less. And I have a client and student who would very much fall in this category and was constantly told, you're too loud. Gosh, you're too much. You're too, ugh. And she recently got that tattooed on herself. Like, go find less. But to your point, our people pleasing or acquiescing into what other people want can show up a ton of different ways. For you,

it might be dimming your shine. For someone else, it might be, I've got to always be the class clown. I got to be the one who keeps everybody laughing and rolling. And so that person might have a really, really difficult time ever owning sadness or being seen or being held and supported through a dark time. If you've been the quote strong one, that's another one that like I can't, I have to over function. I have to take care of everybody in this scenario. So God forbid I have a weak moment. So we show up with all of these different kind of costumes, so to speak, of how we're going to be accepted

into the fold. So I think it's just one way that can show up. But I think, again, to the point of nuance, that's a great example of it not necessarily looking like this meek, shy wallflower. Okay. I feel like I derailed us a little bit. No, not at all. Personal therapy session, but I'm so grateful. And I have to imagine other people will have taken so much out of that too. I want to go back to the using your voice. Yeah. I think sometimes people think when we say use your voice or speak your truth, there is this element of it needs to be big and loud and public. And you think of the motivational speakers who are basically yelling at you and it's

like, okay, they must be saying something important or they wouldn't be yelling, right? Like what, that's one version. What are some other versions or ways that are maybe equally or more impactful that we can use our voice that don't involve yelling or social media or huge public formats. Well, something you said earlier, I think, warrants circling back to. And it's this idea that if I speak up, I'm being mean or I'm being a bitch. And I'm like, listen, you're only being a dick if you're really being a dick. Like if you're trying to hurt someone, then yeah, you should feel kind of bad about that. You're being an asshole. If you're trying to inflict pain, you know, yeah, that should be guilt. However, having a difference of opinion from someone else or feeling offended by something

someone said, that is not you being a jerk to someone. So there are many instances where just being assertive, just stating that you don't necessarily agree with somebody can be really powerful. So we'll give you a couple of examples. I think one of the things that we get tripped up on too is we think that if we bring something up or say I found that offensive or I don't agree or I don't share that opinion, that then we now have to entertain an entire conversation and we have to litigate and we have to go to court and we have to plead our case. And that's not the case either. So I operate under a mantra of do not allow your silence to make you a liar. So what that means to me is I will not allow conversation to go on around me with me being a part of it and me being complicit to that conversation simply by me being silent.

I had a situation that happened years ago when I was doing community theater, where there was a gentleman who came up to me and he was showing me a meme on his phone. And it was a very disparaging meme about a mentally and physically disabled child, which to me does not constitute humor or comedy. So in that moment, the easy thing to do would have been just to kind of laugh it off and just like move away. But I will not allow my silence to make me a liar, nor do I want to get involved in a big conversation about it. Because I have shit to do. I have to go on stage and be a damn diva. So what I said was, you know what? I actually don't find that funny and I would appreciate it if you just didn't show me stuff like that in the future. So anyway, will I see you in the green room

and just change the subject? So I've done it with my brother around guns. He wants to get going talking about guns. And I said, listen, I don't share the same opinion as you, but I'm not going to get into it right now. And there's a couple of things that happen when you have that sort of a delivery. One is you can't be written off. You can't be just the hysterical woman, right? All of these monikers that we've received throughout history about just being difficult. So I keep in mind, do they deserve for me to be calm? Probably not. They probably deserve to be ripped a new asshole. However, that is not going to get me heard. And it's that going back to being proud of yourself in the moment. I have gone full rip somebody a new asshole. And it honestly does feel good in the moment. But

after the fact, I often think there is a more mature, emotionally intelligent way I could have handled that. And the problem with ripping somebody a new asshole is it doesn't, well, changes maybe because the opposite silences agreement. I agree with you on. And so being proud of ourselves, but being proud of what we say and how we say it and how we interact with people is something that is a work in progress for me and really important. Yes. That is such a great point because so much of our examples of people speaking up have been fire and brimstone and have been yelling and screaming or the hysterical woman, right? And so we don't have really articulate, eloquent examples of how to say no or how to decline an invite. We think that if we decline something, it has to be because we

got front row seats to Beyonce or our mom's in the hospital. Like, no, no, no. You can just say, unfortunately, I'm not available. Thank you so much for asking. Those are small ways we can flex our voice. Another small way is through just having an opinion. So if you're with a bunch of friends and you're going out to dinner and everyone's like, where should we go? Instead of being the one who goes, oh, I don't care. I don't care. Even if you genuinely don't care, I am not she, but even if you genuinely are up for whatever, have an opinion. Know that your voice matters. Just say, you know what? I could really do Chinese tonight. That sounds really good to me.

Even if you're down for Thai, even if you're down for whatever. But just starting to flex that. Something else that you illustrated really beautifully is talking about the did I handle myself in a way that I was proud. were many instances for me, specifically with my mom after my dad had passed, where I don't know if I was bolstered by the fact that it was one against one as opposed to one against two or what, but I became incredibly combative. And there were many instances where I had to go back and kind of declare a do-over and tell my mom, I'm so sorry for my delivery. But so often we have this kind of confidence hangover or this speaking up hangover where we're at odds with someone and we know we were shitty in our delivery. And so we just take it all back instead of just taking back the thing you need to apologize for. So what that sounded like

was saying to her, hey, listen, I really don't feel settled about our conversation the other day. I still feel very strongly about what I shared. However, how I said it was incredibly inappropriate and I should never have spoken to you in that way. And for that, I'm incredibly sorry. And learning how to clean up my delivery without taking back my stance. We tend to think it's all or nothing, right? Like if I didn't speak up, oh, my opportunity is gone. No, you can circle back. You can go, hey, listen, when you brought up that thing the other day,

I didn't say anything and it's really been bothering me. You can go back. It doesn't matter if you've not spoken up for decades. You can still create something new. If you spoke up and you don't like how you showed up, you can go clean that back up. It doesn't have to be flawless all the time. Just declare the do-over. Agreed. In fact, it very rarely is flawless. I think sometimes we wait to use our voice because we're waiting for that mic drop moment, right? We're waiting for the right words in the right way. And then we'll say it as opposed to more often than not, we're speaking in the moment without a ton of preparation. And so we're navigating our best. And oftentimes there is potentially something to circle back and add

or reiterate or change or potentially apologize for as in your example. Amy, I want to point out for our listeners, you've given us so many beautiful examples of responsible communication as well. I think of, you said, I don't share that opinion versus your opinion is wrong. And I think being responsible and owning that this is, you know, I don't share your opinion allows for you to not get into that big conversation. Because if you say to somebody, your opinion is wrong, but I don't want to get into it right now. They're probably not going to let you off the hook so well. Right. I know we're at time, but thank you for this beautiful and powerful example of using your voice and so many great tips and how-tos and even little sentences that we can use in our

day-to-day life. Amy, thank you for the work that you do. Thanks, Nicole. I've had such a blast. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Okay. If you're listening and you want to find and follow Amy, and I encourage you to do that

on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, you can find her at HeyAmyGreenSmith. And you can also grab Amy's free sources, that's resources that are free if you didn't catch that play on words, at AmyGreenSmith.com forward slash free. And I want to close us out with a quote that says, it only takes one voice at the right pitch to start an avalanche. I share that as a reminder that your voice has power. So with your knees shaking, palms sweating, with your head filled with doubt, your heart pounding with uncertainty, stumbling over your words, use your voice. Because that's how every single person starts saying something worth saying

that doesn't make you weak or small or bad it makes human the difference isn't how you feel it's the choice you make in the face of those feelings when you choose to share your truth or when you don't just remember you're the only person who can. Your voice matters because you matter. And knowing that deep in your soul, trusting that what you have to say and share matters is most definitely woman's work.