This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 206 / A Better Way to Define Success with Stella Grizont

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

Is success about how much you make? Is it about being influential? Is it about having it all?  How do we, how do YOU, define success? Here to help us answer that question is Stella Grizont, the Author of The Work Happiness Method, an Executive Coach, one of the first 150 people in the world to earn a Master’s in Applied Positive Psychology (aka the science of happiness) from the University of Pennsylvania, and a leading happiness expert according to Time Magazine. Leveraging research from positive psychology, neuroscience, and leadership, Stella helps people identify their vision of success and make strides towards achieving it -- in their career and in life. Success needs to first be defined in order to be achieved. And then acknowledged and celebrated in order to be experienced. Otherwise we’re just chasing an elusive moving target, and I can tell you from experience that that is fucking exhausting. Create YOUR success – define it, achieve it, celebrate it. Connect with Stella: Website: www.stellagrizont.com  Book: https://www.stellagrizont.com/work-happiness-method-book  IG: https://www.instagram.com/stellagrizont/  Free Vision Generator Resource: www.visiongenerator.com  Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsor: Once I got these leggings, I switched my loyalty to LNDR. I’m not sure what witchcraft was used to create their uber soft, extremely sculpting leggings, but I’m here for it. Go to lndr.com and use promo code TIWW to get 20% off. (And here’s the campaign video I mentioned - it’s SO GOOD!)

I'm JJ Khalil, and my mom asked me to tell you about my Xenimal and why I love it. It helps me meditate and fall asleep at night, and it reminds me that I'm a good kid. I use my Xenimal every day and take it with me when I go on trips. I think any kid you love would like a Xenimal too. If your kids annoy you sometimes and you lose patience, you could use one too. If you want to buy a Xenimal, you can go to Xenimals.com and use the code NicoleMKhalil to get 10% off. I'm Nicole Khalil and you're tuning in to the This Is Woman's Work podcast where together we're redefining what it means to be doing woman's work in the world today, successfully.

I never say it that way, but it feels implied, right? I mean, I want you to come up with a definition of woman's work that works for you. And whatever it is that you do for work and in life, I want you to have the success that you're looking for. And let me be clear that success and perfection are not the same thing. We know that perfection is an unattainable standard that does not work. We know that nobody is happy, confident, or successful all of the time. But I hope, however it is that you define woman's work for yourself,

that it gives you the opportunity to feel all of those things at least some of the time. Otherwise, what's the point? And while that might seem simple, it's definitely not easy for lots of reasons. But chief among them is that many of us can't even define those terms for ourselves. Think about it for a minute. What does it mean for you to be happy? Not somebody else's definition. What makes you happy? Is it a choice or is it a feeling? What does success even mean for you? Because if we can't define it for ourselves, how will we even know it when it happens? And if we haven't defined it, does it become a moving target that jumps further and further away every time you get close to it?

And if we haven't defined it for ourselves, are we using somebody else's definition? Will it even feel like we hoped it would when we get there? Or does it feel empty or confusing or even worse, disheartening? Because I have to tell you, I don't know many women, many people for that matter, but certainly not many women who are experiencing success in a very productive and healthy way. Most of what I see falls into the never enough category, where any success creates an almost instant need for more of it with a side of stress and worry on the side. Or it's success in one aspect of life, but not in all aspects. So there's always something that makes us feel like we can't celebrate our success or even acknowledge it as success.

Is success about how much you make? Is it about being influential? Is it about having it all in full transparency? I don't know if I know the answer because I've played the never enough and I'm not winning in every single aspect of my life. So it doesn't count game for way too long. I've used other people's definitions and expectations. And frankly, I'm not sure anymore that we even know what it is that we're talking about when we say the word success. I even did a five-minute Google search and found no less than 16 different definitions of the word.

So how do we, how do you define success? Here to help us answer that question is Stella Grisant, the author of The Work Happiness Method, an executive coach and one of the first 150 people in the world to earn a master's in applied positive psychology, otherwise known as the science of happiness, from the University of Pennsylvania. And Time Magazine named her a leading happiness expert. Her book and coaching programs teach individuals the inner skills to manage their mind and their mood to get clear on what it is they really want, set healthy boundaries,

face uncertainty with openness, and refocus when they fall off track. I think we could all use all of those things. Leveraging research from positive psychology, neuroscience, and leadership, Stella helps people identify their vision of success and make strides towards achieving it in their career and in their life. So Stella, thank you for being on the show to talk about how we can define success authentically. But I think before we do that, I'd love to acknowledge some of the ways that success is being defined for us, or in some cases, maybe against us. In your work, what do you see as maybe some of the most problematic ways that success is being defined? Got it. Great question. And first of all, thank you for having me. So the way that success is defined for us usually is around money, certain achievements,

title, ownership of certain homes, cars, things. So it usually has to do with things that you are acquiring or that you're earning. And when I talk about success, it's actually about being and feeling. Okay. That's going to be a hugely important distinction. I would also add, it's something we're acquiring or earning. And I think that contributes to this once you get it, it's like onto the next thing because we don't know how to experience it any other way. I also think, and you gave a really good list there. A lot of those things, most of those things are external. They're about what other people see or what we can show or prove to other people versus, as you said, about how we feel or who we're being in our lives and in the world.

Exactly. Exactly. And when you achieve great things, which is wonderful, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to feel great, right? For example, I just made the bestseller list on USA Today. And that was a dream of mine to have this book out there in such a big way. And I checked in with myself and I was like, okay, like, it's just like fine. Like friends are asking, how are you doing? I was like, it's good. Like, I'm just like, I'm in my life. And so it's a nice check mark. And I feel more, I feel proud that it's out there, but it hasn't been, it hasn't really changed anything for me, but I knew that going in, but in the past I would achieve a great deal of things and then be left feeling disoriented, left feeling confused. Who am I? What am I going after? What does this all mean? success with acquisition or earning an achievement solely. That's not examined or conscious and linked to actually how we want to show up in this world. So goals and achieving things are important and I'm very grateful for the things that I've achieved, but I have to always remember who my

being and is this enabling me to be that person? And is this allowing me to express my values in a greater and easier way? Everything you said, I think is so important and so powerful because I know I can speak for myself and, you know, I interact with so many women and women that you would think from the outside looking in, they do have it all. They're, you know, ringing all the bells. They're achieving at the highest level. And it is crazy how often we all do not experience what you think you would experience when you hit those amazing milestones or incredible achievements, or do the thing that you've been working for years and years and years to get. And it's like it happens. And you're right,

disorienting, confusing, disheartening. I mean, almost sometimes I think we're so focused on the thing and not enough focused on what's the experience we're looking for. And is that thing going to give us that experience or can we create that experience in that? So what are the healthier ways to measure and define success? When it comes to success, I first have my clients do what I call to create a vision. And I have them go through an exercise called the vision generator, where I help them tap in and consider what is it that brings me most alive? Who am I being when my heart is singing, when I'm almost seeing in technicolor, when it feels like

the universe is colliding in my favor? What are the qualities of that, right? How am I behaving? What are the strengths I'm tapping into? What are the conditions that are enabling this wonderful experience? Because that helps us get clued into how do we want to be most of the time? Like, are we going to be that way all the time? No, but that's where we want to strive, right? And so for me, I know that's about being creative. That's about being loving and connected to my family and community. That's being of service.

That's being playful. So there's a lot of aspects that we can scrape from that vision to understand our own values. The thing, and you said it so beautifully in the setup, is that if we're not aligning our actions to be who we want to be, then we're most likely aligning our actions to be what someone else thinks we should be. And that could be society, our parents, our peers. And so it's really important to have that clear vision of who we want to be. Otherwise, we really get trapped in comparison. Anytime we go on Instagram, anytime, you know, a friend remodels their kitchen, anytime we see someone's beautiful lunch or vacation, it's so easy for us to return to ourselves with judgment and feeling like not

enough. And so it's really important for us to be very grounded on, am I being who I want to be? Am I connecting with my loved ones? Am I doing my work with a level of excellence that I'm proud of? Am I contributing to something beyond myself? Whatever those things are for you. And then when you have that clarity and you can say, yes, yes, yes, these are the ways you can, you can like relax. You can almost disarm yourself. You can break free from that black cloud that generates when we're on social media where you feel like you're not enough. Because you can validate to yourself that I'm on my own track and I am making progress towards who I want to be. And the beauty of when you have your vision is that you realize there's

infinite ways for you to be who you want to be. Like for example, vitality is my top value. Well, there's infinite ways for me to go about that. So if I skipped my workout, well, I can go for a walk. I can actually take a nap. I can have like tea instead of another coffee. So I can, at the end of the day, assess that, you know what? Yeah, today I didn't do my workout and I didn't have this great meal, but these are the small ways in which I actually was true to who I wanted to be. And so when it comes to your career or anything, your family, your relationships, there's infinite ways for us to show up and be who we want to be. Friend, I'm about to tell you about these leggings that I love. They've become part of

my work from home uniform and are my go-tos whenever I'm working out. But before I tell you more, I have to tell you about how much I love their marketing. They caught my attention by telling me that their leggings would make me feel like a sleek beast. And I thought, who wouldn't want that? And then I saw their campaign video, which I'll link in show notes so you know why, I was immediately hooked. And once I got my leggings, I switched my loyalty over to LNDR. I am not sure what witchcraft was used to create their uber soft, extremely sculpting leggings, but I am here for it. No bullshit, just comfort and compression. Are you looking to get held? Go to lndr.com and use promo code TIWW to get 20% off your favorite pair of leggings. Stella, I'm going to be fully transparent. I'm having a hard

time wrapping my brain around vision and the way that you're explaining it, I'm very attracted to it, but I have grown up in business. And so often when it's, when people talk about vision, they're thinking about picking a point in time in the future, 10 years from now, and you write with great clarity, all the things you're doing, all the things you have. What I. I've always struggled with that. That's never resonated with me. What I like about what you're talking about when you talk about vision is it's more about what is the experience I'm looking to create? Who do I want to be? And what are the things I might, the values or the experiences that I might be thinking about that align with that, that have me be true to who it is that I want to be.

But there seems a lot more flexibility in your version, a lot, a lot less detail and a lot more like we're going to figure it out as we go. So thank you, first of all, for bringing that up. I think there's many, there's a lot of reasons to struggle with generating your vision. First, and I set this up and I have this exercise, it's available for free at visiongenerator.com

or you can share it in the show notes. One of the reasons that I struggled with creating my own vision is because my whole life growing up in an immigrant family, who's very loving, very hardworking, was always telling me to be realistic. And for me, that was code, don't think too big. Do what's practical, whatever will earn you money, and that's it. And so it really was very difficult for me to consider who I wanted to be in the absence of money or specific goals. And those things do matter. So if we have a voice in our own minds that limits how far we go, even if that voice came from a loving place, it may create some resistance. And that's okay.

I always say in the setup to the instructions of the vision generator and in the book, I describe this as well. Consider this an imagination massage because a lot of us have knots and we're really tense and we're really tight. And it may take getting multiple massages to loosen things up, to allow ourselves to see a little bit bigger for ourselves. So that's one thing. When it comes to the vision generator, I do have people imagine themselves in the future because that also helps us break away from figuring out how it's all going to work. So I do have people envision themselves five years in the future and I provide certain prompts to help them not get stuck on the details. I do encourage you to be as descriptive as possible, but at the same time, we are taking those specific images not as direction, but as clues on what it is that, what's the feeling underneath those. So I could say, I'm sitting on the beach five years from now and I have my laptop. It doesn't mean that I'm going to be living on an

island. It means that maybe I have flexibility in my work experience. Maybe it means I'm spending more time in nature. Maybe it just means I have a sense of freedom. So what we do is we scrape your vision for the clues of ultimately what are those attributes you want to be shooting for so that you can find the choices that are right for you. Does that make sense? It does. I feel like little light bulbs are going off. If success is ultimately about who we want to be and how we want to feel, approaching vision from a place of curiosity and self-discovery, I like this concept of it's giving us clues. It's not necessarily about the thing we visualize. And it's certainly not about being rigid about everything I choose

needs to lead me to this outcome, or it's not a clear vision. It's more about using it to really go back to that core definition of success. How do we want to feel? Who do we want to be. And visualizing that can help maybe unlock some of those things that aren't at the forefronts of our minds because we haven't been thinking about it or because we've been using somebody else's definition or all the reasons. Exactly. I had a client once who worked in a healthcare company in event planning. And after she did the vision, one of the things came up is that she really wanted to be creative and artistic. And this was shocking because she never took an art class in her life other than in elementary school, right? And that took her on a path to actually leaving her job and becoming a fashion designer and going back to school in her 40s

in fashion school with kids in their 20s. But she did it because she remembered that there was a creative part of her that was beckoning. It just helps us remember different parts of ourselves. So it's the first thing you do and then you choose the goals, right? So it's not like we're throwing out goals and desires to achieve. It's just that we're reverse engineering the sequence. We start with how we want to feel, and then what do we do to get there? I love that. Okay. So as we are defining success around how we want to feel and who we want to be, where does or does money or income get factored in? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is a prompt in the vision generator where I ask people about their finances, how they feel about their finances, what it's providing for them.

So finances are very important. We need to put food on the table. So it's absolutely a part of the equation and it's a very practical consideration. Are there ways that we can catch ourselves if we're falling down the trap of caring more about looking successful versus being or feeling it? Because I do think we all do a very good job of noticing other people's perceived success or falling into the trap of wanting it to look a certain way. How might we catch ourselves if we're going that direction? Yeah, that's a great question. So in the Work Happiness Method, which is a book,

but also a coaching program, when I work with my clients directly, one of the things we do is we come up with three accountability questions that you can check in on every day. It takes you less than two minutes. You don't have to go and cook or be present with your family, in that transition, a little ritual that you can do for yourself is check in on the three values that you're trying to actively cultivate. You can't work on everything at once, but I like to choose three. And so let's say that one of your values is about connecting with people you care about, right? So you can ask yourself, in what ways did I find moments of connection today? And so maybe you're like, okay, I told

my husband that, you know, thank you so much for the flowers. Or I told him he looked really cute before he left for the office, right? So you do a little check in on that. Then you're like, OK. And today I really nailed it on this presentation. I'm really proud that I listened to myself. And then maybe, you know, another value is like we said, being creative. So, you know what? Today I I did things a little bit differently and I took a risk. So what you're doing every day is you're asking yourself open-ended questions that seek out the progress you're making on how you want to feel. So you're not saying, did I? Because that leads to a yes or no. And our inner critic will prove how we're never enough. So we don't want to ask the yes or no. and our inner critic will prove how we're never enough. So we don't want to ask the yes or no. We want to ask, in what ways did I make progress on these things that I want to feel and be? And that creates what I call a virtuous trifecta,

because what you're doing is you're witnessing yourself make progress on what really matters. And it perpetuates that behavior. And then what it proves to you is that, oh, I have control. I have agency. I'm not just like responding to everything that has to get done. I have power in my life. And that's what I call organic confidence, because it emerges from you witnessing, you taking action on being who you want to be. I love that. And that aligns with how I see confidence as well. What about, I experienced this and witnessed this a lot, this, where does satisfaction or contentment play a part in success versus this sort of never enough, or I achieved the goal, or I felt the way I wanted to feel, but then it's like, what's next? We're so quick to what do I need to accomplish next? So maybe it's just the difference in the definition of success, but where does satisfaction

and contentment come in? Well, I think it comes in when you, and that's why I have my clients do those questions, because those are moments to pause and appreciate your progress. And we know from research that progress is actually the most motivating factor above and beyond like incentives and rewards and anything or anything like that. It's another way of also celebrating your small wins or big wins. It's another way of expressing gratitude. So just having your eye on that progress is a way to slow down the what's next. And if you can, I heard you mentioned celebration. I think that's so important.

I was going to ask that next. Okay, good. Whenever I start a call with my client, the first thing I ask is, what do we want to celebrate this week? And what it does is it expands what's worth celebrating. It really forces them to appreciate their progress because so often, like you said, we're so quick to move on to the next thing. I'm having to put the brakes on myself because I feel like I really need to celebrate, you know, just what I've been through. And I'm noticing myself so quickly jump on to what's next. And so I'm actually like actively thinking about that right now because I feel the pull of what's next, summer plans, blah, blah, blah. So I think celebration and slowing down, but even just

having that daily ritual of a two-minute check-in can do the trick of us seeping back into ourselves and reminding ourselves of the progress that we're making. I love that. And I do think even just the smallest progress is worth acknowledging and celebrating. I mean, let's be honest, sometimes doing the smallest thing on a day is much harder than doing a really big thing on another day. And I don't know that I know anybody who's great at the celebration piece. As you're thinking about this, I know I am too. What ideas are you coming up with?

How do we celebrate? I mean, again, we're not going to celebrate necessarily everyday progress other than in the acknowledgement and what you're talking about in the day-to-day. But let's say you do do something big, like make a bestseller list or your podcast goes in the top 10 or you remodeled your kitchen or whatever it is. Those, I think, feel worth celebrating. Yeah. How do we do that? I'm asking myself the same question because I'm like, what do I do?

Do I throw a party? I was so tired from this whole book launch. I was like, what do I do? Do I throw a party? I was so tired from this whole book launch. I was like, I don't want to be around people. I did the party. It did not work for me. I was too freaking tired. So I want to know what you did because I need some like, now that I've come off of it a little bit, I feel like some energy is returning to me. So I, I, I do think togetherness is important. I agree. I do feel like, so I do want to be together. I'm just searching for a way that doesn't feel depleting for me to like organize, but togetherness is everything. Right. And that's

also one of the best ways our nervous system kind of returns to homeostasis and releases the cortisol in our bodies. So together, I think whatever, I think celebration is really about togetherness and it doesn't matter. Like the first thing I did actually after my book launch day was I just jetted off to Boston to be with two of my favorite girlfriends. And another thing I'm like, so I've, I've organized small girl trips and of course, um, time with my family. So I'm figuring that out because I'm

paying attention to my energy. Yeah. And I'm heading down that same path. I think often what I need after a big achievement is something to re-engage with people who get me or I feel safe with. I think that there is sort of a refueling of the tank, figuring out what's next in a way slower, calmer, more grounded way, as opposed to this like, you know, like, oh my God, I got to do, I got to figure out the next thing. I need to figure out how to keep this going. I need to figure out how to get it going, the spirit in which I'm doing it. And I've just found in life that experiences far outweigh things, right?

So what is the experience I'm looking for? What do I need, you know, in those moments? And then how do I think about creating that or making that available to me when those things happen? I'll also add, and this is kind of silly, is I often will get something that I can keep for a long time, like, and it doesn't need to be expensive, but like a piece of jewelry when I achieve, because it reminds me, like I have my bracelets, each one of them reminds me. And so when I'm having a tough day or when I'm unsure or lacking confidence, I have this reminder of I've done it before. I've done it before here and I've done it before here and I've done it before here.

And it's less about the jewelry or what it costs. And it's more about the reminder and the memory of something achieved. Yes. I love that. I love that. My husband actually got me a book push present. He didn't get me any for giving birth, but I did get one for the book. But I will say the reminding is very good. And I also feel I need to be reminded that it's not all on me. So to have faith to let go, because that also has been a teaching moment for me in this book. Over and over again, the things that matter most are where I've actually allowed myself to surrender. And that's actually the reminder I need more than the reminder that I've achieved is the reminder that I can let go and I'll be okay.

Yeah, that speaks directly to my soul and inner knowing because that's the lesson I keep getting to learn in those moments. Okay, I wish we had more time. If you are listening and you want to learn more about Stella and her work, which I know you do, go to stellagrisant.com. She has the Vision Generator tool for free on her website, or you can go to visiongenerator.com either way and get your hands on her book, The Work Happiness Method. It is available on Amazon.

Stella, thank you so much for your time and wisdom today and helping us all to rethink and redefine success for ourselves. Thank you. It feels like a really important question, right? How do you define success? It's right up there with what's the meaning of life. There is certainly no one right answer. And even your answer for yourself might evolve and change over time.

It probably will. But it's important that you at least begin to answer it and continue to define it for yourself. Who do you want to be? How do you want to feel? Because if you don't define it for yourself, somebody else will. And their definition may not work for you. Probably won't. Your success needs to be defined in order to be achieved and

acknowledged and celebrated in order to be experienced. Otherwise, we're just chasing an elusive moving target and I can tell you from experience that that is fucking exhausting. Create your success. Define it. Achieve it. Celebrate it. That is woman's work.