This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - 7 Wardrobe Essentials Every Woman Needs with Marcy Syms | 339

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Let’s talk about your wardrobe — not in a “what’s trendy this season” way, but in a “does this outfit support your goals, your values, and your voice” kind of way. Because when your style reflects who you actually are — instead of who the world expects you to be — you show up stronger, speak more clearly, and leave the kind of impression that opens doors. To help us get intentional with our closets, I’m joined by Marcy Syms — fashion industry veteran, gender justice advocate, former CEO of Syms Corp, and author of Leading with Respect: Adventures of an Off-Price Fashion Pioneer. She’s breaking down the 7 wardrobe essentials every professional woman should own, and how to build a powerful, personal style without blowing your budget. This isn’t about dressing to impress — it’s about dressing to express. So your clothes don’t just look good… they say something good, too. Because showing up with confidence starts before you even speak — and yes, what you wear still matters. Connect with Marcy  Website: https://marcysyms.com/ Book: https://www.amazon.com/Leading-Respect-Boardroom-Marcy-Syms/dp/0806544813  Related Podcast Episodes: 143 / The Real Reason You Have Nothing to Wear with Ellie Steinbrink How To Achieve Healthy, Glowing Skin - No Botox Or Fillers Required with Lindsey Holder | 326 How to Turn Job Seeking into Job Shopping with Madeline Mann | 318 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review:Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. we're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And on this podcast, we cover a wide range of topics, many of them work-related, from leadership to entrepreneurship, workplace culture, to personal development, navigating parental leave to advocating for your own compensation. And today, we're talking about how what you wear is or isn't impacting the work that you do, the opportunities you get, and the impressions you leave behind. Now, let me be clear. I am not here to tell you that your value,

your leadership, or your impact depends on your shoe game. I am firmly in the camp of your comfort over trends, authenticity over aesthetics, and caring way more about who you are than how you look. And here's the complexity. We live in a world where perception matters, where first impressions are made in a second, where your wardrobe, favorite, or not can open doors or quietly close them, where what you wear can either support your voice or distract from your message. So what's a working woman to do? Today, we're talking about how to get intentional with your wardrobe, not to fit in, but to stand out for the right reasons, not to chase trends, but to align your closet with your values, your goals, and your identity, to make what

you wear a reflection of who you are in a way that draws the right people in so you have the opportunity to wow them with your talent, your experience, and your expertise. Joining me is somebody who knows a thing or two about making powerful impressions. Marcy Sims, former CEO of Sims Corp, longtime NPR board member, passionate gender justice advocate, and the woman who's been changing conversations and elevating women for decades. She's also the author of Leading With Respect, Adventures of an Off Price Fashion Pioneer, and today she's giving us the lowdown on seven wardrobe essentials every career woman actually needs and how to get them without breaking the bank. Marcy, thank you for joining us. And I'm going to dive us right into the important stuff

and ask, in what ways is what we're wearing, opening or closing doors for our us professionally. Well, Nicole, first of all, I want to say what a pleasure it is to meet you and to be here today and to talk about something that I was involved with for 37 years. And honestly, my career decisions had to do with family business, but also the fact that I came up in a career time when women were dressing like little soldiers. You know, we were putting bow ties around our neck and we were wearing broad shoulders and we were hoping that people would notice that we were women climbing the corporate ladder.

I think today it's really, really different and the expectations of what that first impression says is so different, you really have to come across as being authentically yourself that there is at this point in time for women a lot of opportunity for choice, and the fact that you make that choice and make it part of who you are when you walk into a room, or you're on a Zoom, is really, really important. Couldn't agree more. And it's interesting. I think sometimes it's the optionality that makes it feel so overwhelming. I'm not advocating that we go back to like having a career uniform, but at the

same time, it can be confusing and overwhelming to figure out what is the first impression we want to make and, you know, how do we do that? Right. Well, I do think that there's the opportunity now to bring back some of the classics because we have gone through a period of time where anything goes. And I must say, being a CEO at Sims, I remember having to deal with dress codes. And because we were selling men's tailored clothing as well as career dressing for women, we were very concerned about how our coworkers presented to the customers who came in. And so we gave them a very generous allowance for buying their wardrobe to work. And we gave them pointers on how to look professional. But we have gone a long way. I mean, I've been in offices where, you know,

people were allowed to wear sandals. And I must say, that was a little off-putting to me, because honestly, I don't really want to see anyone toes. Right. Marcy, I like this thought of bringing back the classics. Maybe it's because I'm in my 40s and I'm not paying attention, nor do I want to pay attention to trends as much as I used to. But one of the things that I was really excited about having this conversation about was this positioning of the seven wardrobe essentials that every career woman should invest in because of that feeling of it being overwhelming. So give us an idea of what are the things we need? What are these seven wardrobe essentials? Well, in terms of the items themselves, you really need a fabulous tailored blazer. You need a blazer that looks good

walking into a boardroom, looks good walking into, I don't know, a cocktail reception and looks good with dungarets, you know, looks good with your jeans, you're your caprice. And that, you should first choose whatever items we're talking about, you should first choose your capsule best colors. What are your best colors? And choose a foundational color to get all these pieces together around. My color is black. I'm able to use only carry-on luggage because I always use black as my pivotal color for all my other pieces. And you should choose whatever looks good with you and you feel comfortable with. So that's number one. We're going to choose a tailored blazer that is part of that capsule wardrobe

that is part of the extension of that best color for you. Real quick, on the note of color, I think, especially when you think of tailored blazer, I want to talk about how to not break the bank, but this seems like a piece that you might want to invest in, right? And so pink may be your favorite color, but asking yourself what's going to stand? the test of time. And I always think of a more neutral color, black, navy, things like that

because I got that advice too with furniture. Like your big, really expensive pieces, go with more of a neutral color. You can add scarves or pillows or whatever to freshen it up. But having, if you're going to put a lot of money into something, having it be something that you can utilize for very long time. Thoughts on that? Totally right. Totally right. So I face all of my choices on my black. You might on navy blue. You might on top. You might even on a green, a kind of forest green, not a Kelly, not something that's bright, something that's muted. Any color that is muted, dark, absorbs light. You don't want a color for your basic blazer that bounces light. You don't want white, you don't want pink, you don't want yellow. You want a color that absorbs light. And is

muted enough in the fabric and is tailored enough in the cut so that it is foundational to the seven pieces that we're going to talk about. Your classic trouser. Now, you have a decision to make. I mean, the classic trouser is a straight leg trouser. But right now, with the wider leg, you might want that straight, still straight leg, to be a little wider to look more current. and that can be the same color as your blazer to make yourself a suit. Again, I'm just building that capsule wardrobe, those essential pieces. But whatever color you get that in, you're going to get it in something that's more tailored and right for the office or going to a reception and a color that's going to be right for going to a barbecue.

And so you're talking about two pieces of the seven. So you're going to need two of the pants, right? And should the blazer and the trouser be bought as a set or it doesn't need to be? No, okay. Not at all. As a matter of fact, one of the kicks of purchasing today is the enormous network of resale shops, Where you, I mean, I have a couple in my neighborhood. I can't believe how fabulous.

I never owned a Chanel suit. I just thought it was ridiculous. I know how much it cost to make them, and I didn't feel that spending $2,000 on a suit would make any sense. But now I own a Chanel suit because I have a resale. So you should go, and not only that, but look in your own wardrobe. so many times we can repurpose an item because of the essential pieces we're pairing it with. So I can take something from 15, 10 years ago and make it look very current because of what I'm pairing it with.

And that would be like your white or straight pan. I love that you brought up resale shops. It's such a phenomenal way to find really high-end things at a reasonable and approachable price. I go and get my sunglasses at our local resale shop. I also would know somebody gave me this tip and I thought it was really smart is going to the wealthiest area that is by you and finding their resale shop

because you get a lot of people who spend a lot of money on things they barely wear or don't wear or still have tags on them and you can again find them for very reasonable cost. So love, love, love that point. All right, we've got our tailored blazer, our classic trouser, now what? Right, now we need a silk blouse.

Now you're going to say to me, but something with Polly travels much better, but the problem is that in most cases, when you're close to someone, you actually can tell the difference between a natural fiber and an industrial made fiber. Okay. So you do want to go with the silk blouse. Here again, I would suggest too. They should probably be white because that photographs the best if you're taking, if you're in a situation where you're, you're going to be photographed, or you're in a situation where you have to make sure that your makeup and your hair is set off properly to make a good impression, and white bounces light. It's the best light bouncer. So you want to choose white around your face, and that's why you want that white silk blouse. and if you want to get a tailored shirt to go with it, even a notched or buttoned-down collar in a very manly kind of way, do that in cotton. But get yourself a silk with a shawl, open collar, something that sets off the blazer.

That's what I'd say for the third piece. The next I would go with a middy dress. And that, when I say midi dress, I mean, it could be anything that you, I always think packable. I always think packable, but you might not have to travel a lot, so you don't think packable. But a mini dress that has flexibility, something, there are amazing selections now that have elasticity around the midsection, even those that have more of an umpier, you know, where the indentation starts under the breast line. and continues down past the waistline. These are often things that are easy to pull over. They're really easy to pack.

They also do very well in long wear. And you can do that. To me, I would suggest a solid because that way you can always dress it up just like your couch with a great-looking scarf. Those oblong five-feet-long scarves, five-foot-long scarves, Oh my goodness, you can change a middy dress in a second with one of those thrown around your

shoulders or your neck. Then I would say to have a pair of chunky loafers. Now, those loafers can have heels because right now we're seeing a lot of that where you almost have the penny loafer with a two-inch heel and a platform front. And that looks great with jeans. It feels good because you can walk on it for a long time without feeling like you're losing your ankles. But you also need a pair of sneakers because now sneakers are more acceptable in places than ever before. And I don't know about you, but after working in retail for 37 years, my feet are shot. They're totally flat. And by five o'clock, I got to put sneakers. So I have dress-up sneakers. And what I suggest is getting something with sparkly bits.

You know, a black sneaker with sparkly bits goes with almost anything today. I cannot tell you how often I show up to a speaking engagement and myself and the other speakers are wearing sneakers, but like elevated, right?

Little sparkle, little bling, something that just makes really bright pop of color, something that makes it stand out, but as somebody who wore heels 100% of the time for far too long and have completely destroyed my feet. I am absolutely thrilled with the trend of wearing sneakers to professional opportunities and engagement. So thank you for making that note. Yes, totally agree. And I agree with the reasons. But the fun of it is the

kind of statement it can make. And you can really take it. And that brings me to the handbag. We're now into, I'm actually someone who, also, after years of wearing shoulder straps, totally brutalized my shoulders, and I'm really into handbags that have no weight. So the only thing that weighs anything is what you have inside. That kind of goes against what is the best look right now to make an impression, and that's a structured handbag. So I would say get a structured handbag that inside, side of it has the least structure so that you can get in the pieces you want to carry with you. I know because I'm an organization person. I imagine most of the women listening to us today are really organization. They really try to get better at it all the time. But more zipper

compartments does not make a better handbag. Agreed completely. And Marcy, let me just ask, I think with handbags especially is where we can get caught up on brand. Is this a place to invest? Is this the place that it matters to know you have a certain type of handbag? What are your thoughts there? So my thoughts are that every designer Mark Jacobs and Prada and on and on. They all have the handbag that runs about $500 in order to bring you into their merch. I don't feel comfortable walking around with someone's name on my handbag, so it's kind of hard to find one of them without their name being announced.

I find sometimes, curiously, you can find something in a store brand and, you know, go to Macy's, go to Norstrom's, go to their store brand handbags that don't have a name outside, but they will have the same form. fine structured look. Many of them are made in Italy, just like the designer brands. And you can get that without being a walking billboard. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure. Stay three nights this summer at Best Western and get $50 off a future stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit BestWestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Summer's here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days, delivered with Uber Eats.

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that. And I don't suggest that anyone else does. I love that you said that because a lot of times when I catch myself doing that, it is from a position of insecurity. It's I'm not super confident that I'm up to date with the fashion trends or that I, you know, put together this outfit that looks like I totally know what I'm doing. And I'm trying to mask that by having something that in theory represents that. It is a little bit of a default to go high end when I'm feeling insecure. Yeah. Okay, did we get all seven or did we miss one? No, I think we did. But I wanted to aid just talk about out-of-ware and something that's been in fashion for the last, I don't know, 70 years with just minor alterations has been the trench coat. Yeah. So I know it's boring. It sounds fuddy-duddy,

but financially it's brilliant. Locate the trench cut fit for you, try to find one with a zip out lining, and you are good to go. You know, autumn, winter, and spring with this classic trench coat. I tend to like the tope, but I've also had navy and black,

my two other favorites, and they really do fit in anywhere, anywhere. I was in Paris over spring vacation and I saw literally trench coats everywhere I looked. Like I was like, I want that one. I like that one. And I really went and got myself one that was like in my mind, my Paris trench coat. And it wasn't a lot of money. You mentioned the country that actually wears the scarf the best in the world. And a trench coat really lends you the opportunity to show off scarves. There are a couple of additional. to the seven important pieces to put together a capsule wardrobe. And that has to do with

eyeglasses, particularly if most of what you do is on Zoom. Your eyeglasses might be one of the most important after your hairstyle, might be one of the most important decisions you make about your first impression. So that obviously, it doesn't matter how expensive they are. It matters how they complement the shape of your face, your eyes, your chin, and how they look overall. The other thing is jewelry. And I've been through all of the different periods of jewelry, the big chunky, the 10 rows of fake pearls and all that. We are really in a time of minimalist jewelry.

And I can't tell you how many people are just wearing that. fine gold or silver a chain around their neck with a small, I'm doing it too, with a small piece of accent that just draws your eye to the center of your face, which when you're on Zoom, that's what you want to accomplish. And that's what people are doing. That's what women are feeling comfortable with. That also goes with jewelry. We still see the dangling earrings, cautionary in a professional setting first impression dangling jewellries it's a distraction I don't recommend it go with a simple simple whether it's a stud or as I'm wearing some sort of just a you know a little treatment that bounces light off of it but dangling for

daytime business don't recommend it I'm so glad you brought that up because it brings me to kind of the don't, right? We talked about the seven and a few additional things and all of those things super helpful. But you mentioned the dangling earrings or like I host a podcast. Sometimes people show up with all the bracelets and I have to ask them to take them off because it's constantly picking up noise. I know one of the don't that I have that I often give the advice of when people ask about speaking or professional is like anything that's a distraction. If it's dangling earrings. If it's a dress that looks good standing up, but you didn't think to sit down in it and what that looks like, or something you're constantly tugging at, or a bra that doesn't

fit, I think a lot of the don't fall under the category of things that make you feel uncomfortable or create distraction for you and other people. What other don'ts should we be mindful of? Well, the caveat there, of course, is comfort. Because if you're comfortable and you feel the fit is correct and that's something we haven't spoken about but fit is essential i know i'm a petite it doesn't matter how many times how many brands in their petites i still have to shorten the sleeves even though it's a petite because my my arms are shorter than they should be for that whatever it takes to make the fit right will make you more comfortable that might require learning how to sew because it's kind hard to find seamstresses. But that's what's required. And once you have that comfort with the fit

and the fabric and then the style, then you can present yourself in an authentic way. And the don't is don't show more skin than you have to. Yeah. Good point. Because it's a distraction. It is a distraction. It's a message that you don't want to sense. most times. I'm not talking about going to a wedding or, you know, a graduation party or something, or I'm just, I'm talking about the kinds of issues that we confront 90% of the time. You don't want to show more skin than you have to, and that the style is asking you to do. One of the things about cleavage, I know as I've gotten older, my cleavage has gotten musher. So it, you know, like you see here, I'm wearing a little cover here because I don't want that.

I don't want that to be a distraction. Nicole, you just said it. All of this stuff is a distraction from whatever you're trying to present. And you don't want that. So it's a don't about the skin. It's a don't about makeup. Makeup that is a distraction. I know that false eyelashes have made us all feel like we're magical, you know, we're all little princesses with fluttering eyelashes. But the truth of the matter is if it looks like a mink coat above your eyelid, you are totally canceling out anything that comes out of your mouth. Yeah. And it's one of those things that the more you do it, the less connected you get to what natural really looks like. What I mean by that, I think of the person who has done so much plastic surgery that they can't see it anymore.

The same thing with the eyelashes. Like at some point I'm like, can you not see that this is getting in the way of everything else? Like, that's all we can see. And we also see that now, again, I know I'm going to step on a lot of people's expectations with this one. But honestly, the whole nail thing with the length of nails, I don't know how you can do a lot of work. And, you know, if you go to scratch your face while you're talking with a group of people, not for profit, for profit, where if you are. And the nails look like they're implements of destruction. Yes. I don't care if they have American flags on them. It's a turn off to

taking you seriously. Right. So I agree with all of that. And I struggle then with the, like, being who you are, being authentic. And I sort of admire people who are like, I don't care. This is who I am. And I think, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, so feel free to completely disagree with me. But I think my lean is be who you are, but be mindful of the message you're sending. Because no matter what, we live in a world of other people's perceptions. And if our goal is to get other people to trust us, like us, respect us, do business with us, buy from us, whatever, we need to be particularly mindful of those perceptions. And so, you know, if you're trying to attract a certain type of client or listener or whatever, and those things work for you, then great.

But when we're talking about the kind of typical professional environment, that's where these rules really hold true. Absolutely. And when you think about going into a PTA meeting, or going into a sales meeting, as opposed to someone who's going down to the grand old Opry and applying for a backup singing job, well, I think the nails are different than. Then maybe the, you know, three-quarter inch nails with the big eyelashes, maybe that works. Right. But appropriateness and what is it you're trying to achieve. Now, let's talk a little bit about the hybrid and virtual world that we live in.

I know in my closet, tops become particularly important. Like, I have way more tops than I have anything else. So what might we be mindful of or how does it impact our seven essentials when we're on Zoom all the time? Right. Well, we talked about the two pairs of pants that are essential, but you need about eight tops at minimum to start out. You need, you know, one a day, and then you need that one that says you just came back from the opera, you know, that is particularly a more elaborate statement. So I would start with those two whites, right, getting back to jewelry and how jewelry and scarves change your tops, particularly when you're talking about Zoom. Particularly that. I mean, I didn't think of it. I should have bought a couple of scarves to show you.

But I could totally change my look by doing a scarf or doing a shawl or, you know, and those are pieces that you can have 20, you can have 30. Often, one of the most versatile scarves I had, I bought at a museum store, a gift store, and it was several years ago. and it was really inexpensive. It was like $25. I can't tell you because it has black as one of the colors, white background, and then red in a spray of minty orange and minty green. And it just goes with everything and my black blazer. So you just change the whole feeling of something with a scarf. Okay. So I have to ask about getting all of these essentials without spending millions of dollars, right? Especially for somebody who this might not be in the financial situation to invest in those types of things. You talked about resale shops. I think that's a great tip. Any other ways that we can be saving money. And also, you know, I had the thought of getting something when you said tailored, getting something, you know, that looks great and then literally taking it to a tailor or seamstress

or I love Nordstrom because, you know, somebody will come up and they seem to always know what they're doing. What are your tips on doing this with less money and also getting things to actually be tailored without having to go custom? Well, I have, growing up in off-price retailing, I never buy anything in season. I always buy at the end. of the season. If they haven't started their sales for having to get rid of all the winter, I'm not buying winter. Same thing with summer. I always wait till the end of the season to buy something. That means that you have the confidence to buy it today at the end of August for next summer, but it means saving 40, 50, sometimes 60% from a department store. If you're going to be

purchasing in person. The other thing that a lot of people are doing is this rent an outfit online with a personal shopper who actually delivers through the mail, just like Amazon does with a package that you purchase, has a package come and delivers your clothing for a week. And there you're not making necessarily the same large outlay of cash, but you also don't own the items. You are renting the items. But that's another way to attack it.

And it's a good way to figure out what you feel most comfortable in, what looks best over time on your body, and you can go out then and make the investment. I would say, though, honestly, for going to Nostrums, I don't think they do the same tailoring when you buy off-season that they do in the regular season. So that's not that dependable. And I would say that if you find yourself, your local dry cleaner, oftentimes they have someone who does

alterations in the dry cleaner. Yeah, I found a local tailor who I love, and it's the best. Okay, Marcy, so many good tips. I wish I would have known you or been able to hear from you in my 20s. You would have saved me from a lot of mistakes, but this has been exceptional. I know our listener is going to want to learn more. The website is marcy sims.com and get your hands on her new book, leading with respect, adventures of an off-price fashion pioneer. And we'll put all of those links and every other way to find and follow Marcy in show notes. Marcy, thank you so much for being our guest. Nicole, my pleasure. Okay, friend, here's the deal. Your clothes don't define you, but they can speak for you. And if they're going to be saying something anyway, they might as well be saying what you want them to. So whatever it is that you're rocking, remember this. Your style should support your message, not compete with it. It should reflect who you are, not just who the world expects you to be. And what if what you wore helped you walk a little taller, speak a little louder, or feel a little more you in the process? Well, that's even better, because that's what we're doing here. We're showing up fully, leading intentionally, and yes, dressing like we mean business, whatever that looks like for you. And all of that is woman's work. Hey, JJ Virgin here. On my podcast, Well Beyond 40, we ditch the idea of aging gracefully and go all in on aging powerfully. Every week I have.

host powerful experts who can give you powerful insights on building muscle, boosting your energy, and feeling amazing no matter what your age. This is your one life. And trust me, being smarter and stronger are superpowers that can turn lifespan into strength span. Listen to Well Beyond 40 wherever you get your podcasts.