This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Building A Brand Worth Fighting For with Laura Ries | 348

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

What if the fastest way to define who you are is to first declare who you’re not? In this episode, we connect with branding legend Laura Ries, bestselling author of The Strategic Enemy and chairwoman of Ries Global Consulting, to talk about why naming your “enemy” may just be the most powerful move you can make in business, branding, and life. We dig into how the world’s most successful brands (think Skims, Bumble, and Dunkin’) built their loyal followings not by trying to be everything to everyone, but by drawing a clear line in the sand. Whether you’re launching a business, refining your leadership style, or just trying to live more authentically, this episode will help you stop playing small, ditch the toxic “fit in and please everyone” narrative, and start owning your brand — unapologetically. Because standing out doesn’t come from being “better.” It comes from being boldly different. Connect with Laura: Website:https://strategicenemy.com/ LI: linkedin.com/in/lauraries/ Related Podcast Episodes: The Power Of Instinct In Business And Life with Leslie Zane | 214 202 / Building Your Email Lists & Websites with Brittni Schroeder 023 / Branding YOU With Terri Lomax Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review:Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. From boardrooms to studios, kitchens to coding dens, we explore the multifaceted experiences of today's woman, confirming that the new definition of woman's work is whatever feels true and real and for you. You are the decider, which is designed to be motivating and empowering, but it's also a little daunting, right? Like, I'm the decider. I can't even decide what I want for dinner tonight. And listen, I get it. And one of the things that I've noticed in my personal quest to define what it looks and feels like for me to be doing woman's work is that I often find it easier to define what I don't want, even easier than defining what I do. I mean, think about it. When someone

to ask what you want in a partner or a boss or even what you want for dinner, don't you usually start with the quick mental list of the things you want to avoid, like bad communicators, micromanagers, sushi if it's a Monday, whatever it is that we want, we often get clarity by way of eliminating our hard nose first. And maybe that sounds pessimistic, but in my experience as a realist, which is what most good pessimists call themselves, whether it's in life, leadership, or yes, even woman's work, that process of eliminating the nose first, it works. It's how I figured out who I am and what my brand stands for.

I'd see speakers who are way over the top or coaches who shove their rigid one-size-fits-all solution down our throats, or podcast hosts who seem to be manifesting sunshine and rainbows on a loop. And I knew that's not me, which helped me see more clearly who I am, and who I want to be, which is authentic, curious, and let's be real, prone to the more than occasional rant. And that's what today's conversation is about, because whether you're building a career, a movement, or a life that you love, sometimes the clarity comes not from declaring

what you are, but from boldly deciding who you're not. I learned from today's guests that in branding terms, that means identifying your strategic enemy. Knowing what you're not helps people understand more quickly and clearly what you are. And when it comes to building a brand or a life worth fighting for, sometimes the best way to rally people to you is to first draw the line in the sand about what you stand against. So let's dive in. Laura Reese is a world famous brand marketing expert, positioning strategist, and bestselling author of the new book, The Strategic Enemy. As chairwoman of Reese, the global consulting firm, she continues the legacy of her late father, Al Reese. Laura has spent more than 30 years shaping how we think about brands and positioning,

and she's co-authored several groundbreaking books that have redefined modern marketing and is frequently tapped on the shoulder for marketing analysis as well as working with major news outlets. So basically, Laura knows what she's talking about, and I'm thrilled to have you as our guest. And I'd love to kick you off by talking about why you believe it's important to identify an enemy or what you're not when it comes to building our own personal brands. Well, listen, you set it up perfectly. You understand opposition much faster than superiority. So most people say, hey, I'm great at this, but that's not really believable. When you say and start with that line in the sand, what you're not, it's more instantly believable and makes it clear

when you say you're not, that actually in reverse makes it more clear what you stand for. Okay, so I like this idea because you're right when people say that I'm the best at or the greatest at and then it almost becomes a little bit competitive, right? Like everybody says they're good at what they do or they wouldn't be doing it. So then it's believing that you're better than not just good at where, yeah, again, makes sense to my brain. Yeah, it's all about branding. It's, you know, most companies, most people try to focus on being better. Now, listen, there's nothing wrong with being better. But when you're trying to build a brand, that's something in the mind. You have to deal with the reality of the mind and

the perception is what matters in the mind. And when you can talk about the difference, when you make that contrast between two things, it makes that decision process a lot more easier. I mean, think about, you know, you set up some examples starting with what do you want for dinner, right? much faster to go with, I don't want this, right? I don't want burgers. I don't want fries. Or in another case, you know, when you're asking your children, if you ask them, what do you want for dinner? If you just leave it open, right?

If you put in, you know, do you want burgers or do you want chicken, you have that contrast that makes it more clear and actually easier for them to decide. Yeah. I think of, again, being a podcast host, I don't think I have the best podcasts in the world and I'm not going to win anybody over by trying to claim that. But what I can do is separate myself. I don't have a sunshine and rainbows and toxic positivity podcast, which lets you know that what I'm not,

but also that I'm prone to ranting or I'm not going to be positive all the time or what have you. It's such a perfect example because that instantly makes you very memorable and very understandable and relatable, right, by very clearly saying, you know, I'm not about rainbows. think about that. That's also a visual word. It's very important in branding. When you can use words

that are visualized, that hits in multiple places in your brain to make it more emotional, more memorable, more easy to understand. So when we can use words that are visualized, that helps the process even more. Okay. So you perfectly teed me up because my next question is going to be, how do we do this? Like, how do we define our enemy or what we're not? Are we looking for a person, an idea, a strategy, a thing, like help us break this down. Yeah, there's not, you know, when you instantly, when you say an enemy, people think it's, you know, it's a specific company or a specific person. No, it could be a competitor.

Many times it's another category, say the previous category and you're launching a new one. Or it could be a convention of the old way of doing or the hard way of doing versus the simple way of doing. Or even a concept like time itself could be the enemy. I, you know, volunteer with it's called the young men's surfing. These are moms and their high school sons that do community service. And you think, well, how can a nonprofit trying to do all good, you know, have an enemy? But they can. And they very strongly identified what that enemy was. And that was the fast four years of high school. Because listen,

when you tell a mom with a ninth grade son, it's going to go by really fast, he's like, no way. But that is actually very true. As I've been on the other side of that, it does blow by. And when you reflect as a senior, you're like, did I spend that time well? Did I, you know, did I impart in him, you know, values and do we have great times and memorable experiences. And that was a very key driver of setting up what that enemy is to make it clear and the benefit and the time worth spent in devoting to the service. Okay. Yet I think of a brand that I love. It's cake spotty. They do nipple covers. But the enemy that they set up early that just resonates as nipple freak out. And they're combating nipple freak out. And the idea is like when you're in a cold aisle,

in the grocery store or when you know the room is really cold or whatever and it's like right I know and I have my cakes on right now but we all know that moment or that feeling where you're like oh crap you know my nipples are leading the charge here and so like that to me was the enemy that we could all well you connect to it it's relatable it's more believable and we're motivated by fear right it's much harder to you know try to convince someone how great you are but it's much easier to say, you don't want to have nipples, or, you know, for many, many great companies have focused on this using that strategic enemy. What did skims do? Yes, Kim Kardashian could probably sell snow to the Eskimos, but her brand, $4 billion, their enemy beige shapewear.

You know, the color beige or some in the fashion say it nude, all people are not beige. And her inclusive, you know, range of colors, range of sizes, you know, set up a very effective strategic enemy that she goes against. And when you have that focus on what you're, you know, fighting against, you know, that's what makes it worth fighting for. It's much easier to fight against something than just for something. Or Bumble is another great example. You know, what is the enemy there? Men swiping right on you. On Bumble, and I haven't been on there, I'm married, but on Bumble, women get to make the first move. A very effective strategy. And what happens, most people just say, you know, we're going to go in there. We're going to have better, you know,

better service, better pricing, better, better, better, instead of thinking, how can we dramatically be different and showcase it against a very contrasting strategic enemy that makes our side more, you know, relatable to a certain sect of people. Okay. I want to dive into the very last thing you said, a certain sect of people. I think a lot of times we, especially as women, think part of branding is to capture the most amount of people. And so we tend to water ourselves down or people please our way through or, you know, we're trying to be all things to all people. And the reality is when we do this, we are eliminating a certain segment of people or a lot of people. It's fair or no. Well, here's the thing. I mean, the way to build a brand is to stand for

something, right? To narrow the focus so you can get that idea in the mind. Now, even if you have a narrow focus and the danger is trying to appeal to everyone. And when you try to appeal to to everyone, sell everything. You know, you don't have something to stand for. You don't have something to fight against, most importantly. But here's the thing about, you know, let's say a target. It's not necessarily the same as the market. For example, go back in time, the Marlboro Cowboy and the Marlboro Cigarette, you know, was a very, very specific target. But that wasn't the market, right? If they just sold it to Cowboys, that would be very small. And believe this, that the largest selling cigarette among women was Marlboro. They related to the cowboy imagery

that was, you know, associated with their brand. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you're excluding anyone just because, you know, you're focused on a specific target. Okay, this is fascinating. My brain is, I think, working hard to try to catch up. So standing for something. So, like, I think of personal example is, you know, I am not toxic positivity manifesting sunshine and rainbows, blah, blah, blah.

So people who are very positive or very, you know, are looking for uplifting all the time or whatever, they're not going to gravitate towards my brand. Am I doing a disservice? Like, how do we figure out how to stand for something without eliminating the market? Well, because if you don't, you're not going to be remembered. If you don't stand for something, you're unlikely to build a brand. You're unlikely to get in the mind and you're unlikely to attract listeners. And listen, all of us don't choose one brand all the time. I mean, even if you're a happy person, sometimes you don't want the rainbows. I mean, you know, being a choice for a certain, you know, period of time or part of the day,

I mean, that makes it, you know, a reason to tune in, right? Instead of, I don't know what I'm going to get or it'll be a little bit of everything. I mean, and that's the thing. I mean, people do have multiple brands and they do buy from different companies at different times. And over your life cycle, I mean, you think about a car. You don't stick with one car brand over the, you know, over your whole life. You know, when you're young, you might, you know, pick a small car when you get kids, right? I got, I immediately went out, had my first child.

I got a Volvo because that was the safe car. I couldn't be driving a BMW with the baby. I mean, we, you know, different times of our lives, different, you know, feelings that we have. We make different choices. But the most important thing is your brand stands for something so that, you know, people, when they want that choice, they go for you. I'm also thinking of skims, the example that you gave. I'm not personally a big Kim Kardashian fan. I don't, I'm not going to say anything negative about her, but she's not.

who I'm attracted to, and yet I wear skims, wearing them today. So I think there is something to be said for different things, different times, different people. And also, like, we are not just one way all the time ourselves. So we might brand ourselves in different ways at different times. Sure. But I do think that the most powerful thing a brand can do is to stay consistent and over the long term. And so, I mean, obviously, as people we do, I mean, we're talking companies versus people. People do change and evolve.

But if you can have one, I call it an anchor that keeps you grounded. And if you're, you know, not the rainbow, that's the anchor, which I think is a very powerful one that a lot of people can relate to and like to have, you know, as part of their, you know, listening experience. It's like music. You don't always listen to the same song or the same type of music. You like the variety. I mean, I think that is a powerful part.

of life, but you do pick the specialists. And that's one of the dangers I call, you know, don't be your own worst enemy. And that comes from, you know, line extending or try to be too many things to too many people because people don't think brand first. They think category first. I mean, if you're going to have an alcoholic beverage, you don't say, okay, I'd like a bud light. Which kind would a bud light would I like? Would I like a seltzer? Would I like a next? Would I like a bud light arena? No, nobody thinks like that. They think, you know, do I want to? a beer? Do I want a hard seltzer? Do I want a hard lemonade? Do I want a non-alcoholic beer? And once they make that category decision, then they look in their mind and say, what is the dominant brand or the

brand I like the most in that category? And that's going to be the winner. So categories are incredibly important. Of course, we talk in brands, but we think in categories. Okay. Interesting. So branding and marketing, clearly not my area of expertise in something, you know, I've personally struggled with on the business side, even more than the personal side. I think I've had an easier time figuring out who I am and want to be in life. And then translating that into my business has been much more challenging. So my question is, what's the best way to build a brand? You talked about consistency. You talked about categories. Help us think through the do's and don't of building a brand. Sure. Well, I mean, listen, it's very challenging to do this to yourself.

even myself, I'm updating my website. It's very challenging to work on your own brand. So it is helpful to have, you know, an outsider, a trusted advisor or a consultant or something like this to help you because they have fresh eyes on it. You know, they see it from the outsider's perspective to understand what the perceptions of you are and, you know, what things you can do to leverage that perception to build your brand. Now, when it comes to a brand, the most important thing is a narrow focus, what you stand for. Secondly, it's very important not to be customer focus, but to be competitor focused, right? You're not just trying to please your customer when you think only in that direction. And it's not wrong to be nice to your customer or help them out. But,

you know, you expand and you kind of get away from what that focus is. Instead, when you're competitor focused, you have to look at the landscape to say, you know, I'm out there in the world. I'm not just one, you know, thing. I'm being compared to other things. So what can I do best to set up a difference, right? So whether it is my skill or even a visual. So I talk about visual hammers. And visual distinctiveness is incredibly important in branding. So when you think about a personal brand, that many times can be, you know, even what you wear. For example, I always wear red. Jensen Wong and video wears a black leather jacket. Steve Jobs wore a black turtleneck. It was, you know, the uniform, if you will, but the consistency of when you saw it, you saw the

uniform, you saw the person. And then that, you know, what it did was drive in for Steve Jobs. It was innovation, but then it connected to what he was looked like and making. that more memorable with the more connections in the mind. Did you lock the front door? Check. Close the garage door? Yep. Installed window sensors, smoke sensors, and HD cameras with night vision?

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Conditions apply. What do you see some of the mistakes that we're making in branding? Well, I think, you know, being too general instead of being specific. Again, it comes down to, you know, trying to appeal to more people, but to build the brand, to be memorable, to get noticed, to break through the clutter, you have to be as narrow as possible. And you think about, for example, an example like BMW. You know, they try to, you know, talk about all the advantages of a car. And a car is a big, you know, expensive purchase from the gas mileage and the styling and the driving and the this and then that.

And they were 17th in imported cars in America. And then what did they do? They narrow the focus to one idea. Now, people get scared. If I only say one thing, they're not going to think anything else. No, no, no. It's the halo effect. Because if you can own one strong idea in the mind, people will give you the rest.

They'll think that you're good in other areas. But you have to break through and repeat. that one thing, and the ultimate driving machine said over and over again, Nike is just do it, talking about, you know, the athletic performance and inspiring you to greatness. That's a very powerful idea. But at the other end, there's always no matter how big, no matter how powerful, you know, a brand or a competitor or dominant company may be, there's always a weakness in every strength. And you think about, for example, Nike. What did Skechers do? It's the anti-Nikey. It's comfortable. It's not about athletics. It's about, you know, sneakers for the rest of us.

I just want a great pair of shoes. So you can always leverage being different, but it's very hard to just try to be better. Okay. Where does the strategic enemy play in? Is that when you're on this competitor focus and you're trying to figure out? Okay. Yeah. So because when you're looking at say, you know, if whatever the dominant brand is. So for example, in dog food, you know, for years, I fed my dog, you know, the expensive, you know, the most expensive kibble at the store. I mean, I thought the veterinarian said it was good and then comes along the farmer's dog. And they're positioned as, you know, fresh dog food. It's sold by prescription. It has your dog. But they don't just talk about the, you know, benefits of fresh dog food. They also line up the strategic enemy.

Because first, remember this, you got to end sell me at the proof what I'm previously doing to get me to change my, you know, my purchasing. So they have brilliantly called not just, they've called out that enemy, not by a brand name, but by calling it burnt brown balls. And these are highly processed food. You don't want to feed your dog processed food every meal of its life. That will shorten its lifespan. So being very specific, calling out that enemy and then repeating that over and over is what builds. And the more you say something, the more believable it is. And that's why things like just do it. I mean, saying it wants is one thing. But saying it wants is one thing. But saying it decades makes it even more memorable. Right. So do you ever find people get in trouble

like with the, what did you say, burnt brown balls or whatever? Like do you ever face backlash from your competitors or like do you care about that? Like can you get yourself in trouble by going too hard against someone or something? Well, you know, you certainly want to call out something that is, you know, you can't just say the competitor sucks, right? Because, you know, it's not, it has to be something very specific that's maybe even visible to see. And, you know, understandable. Listen, the, was Dunkin' Donuts had a great Super Bowl commercial. It was the, you know, going up against the barista buds, right? And he had Ben Affleck. But because it dealt with the perception already in the mind that Starbucks is more expensive and the long wait times and the, the

complicated menus. I mean, that was a very strong perception already held. And so that reinforced, you know, the distinctiveness and the contrast between the two brands. And they have a very nice slogan to go along with it, right? America runs on Duncan, right? It is the coffee that's fueling, you know, America's hard workers, which I think is a very nice and simplistic contrast to make. Yeah. I live just outside of Boston. So I am obsessed with the Duncan social media account and their branding and they're just so good i'm more into their branding and marketing than i am into their coffee and and it's i think because i grew up in california and i tend to just think oh let's go to starbucks but duncan is winning me over big time i want one of their track suits i'm like all in

i have one i have it i have the whole oh my gosh i have the socks i have the whole thing i got it for my sons it's amazing i mean it's it's so powerful because it's a stark contrast i mean and and Listen, here's the thing. Both sides have a strong position. There's a great position for Starbucks and, you know, the coffee and the third place and the, you know, fancy drinks. But there's also always the reverse is a very strong position as well as, you know, the coffee, the fun, the colors. I mean, the bright orange. It's so powerful that both visual distinctiveness as well as the positioning distinctiveness is what drives those brands. And people love to pick a side. They love to debate. That's the other thing. When you can have those two dueling brands, helps everybody. It generates excitement in the category and it sets up, you know, what side you're on. And even though most of us probably drink from both places. Right. Okay. I know some of our listeners are entrepreneurs or in branding and marketing. What advice do you have for somebody who's looking to build their brand for their business? Well, especially, you know, when entrepreneurs are starting up and you're trying to, you know, start your brand, you've got to think of two

important factors. One is, what is the category? And can there, you know, do we have an opportunity to create a new category for this brand? That's the most powerful thing to be first in a new category, to dominate that new category, and to rise with that category. That's exactly what Tesla did. They narrow their focus to electric vehicles. It was a slow start, but they dominate the mind and today they dominate the market. Now, the category is important, but the brand name is also critically important. And many people make, you know, a sad mistake in choosing their name. And they try to have, you know, cute, they try to be too generic to the category. So you have Lyft, for example, competing against Uber. But if I say, you know, do you need a lift? You know, it looks good on a piece

of paper, but think, in the mind, it's a sound. You know, you don't see the words. You think and sounds. And so that is exactly the same thing, whether and whether the Lyft, L-I-F-T or L-I-F-T is the same. And that's confusing. So the brand name is incredibly important. So companies thinking about that, whether it's the farmer's dog versus fresh pet who they compete against. Fresh pet is a weak name. Farmer's dog is much stronger. It's specific. It's more memorable. And it makes that contrast very clear. It's also just focused on dogs, which is nice. Okay. So same question, but for those of our listeners who maybe aren't entrepreneurs or don't have a business, I have the belief that we all have a brand, right? We are living billboards for who we are and what we value. Yeah. You know, so for the individual who's

maybe thinking more from a personal branding perspective, any advice there? I mean, you know, think about what you, first of all, think about what you love. Everyone should be doing what they love, not trying to be, you know, there's a lot of talk about, you know, how people have a persona online. Forget about it. It should be you. Otherwise, it's not going to be authentic. It's not going to be real and it's not going to be any fun, right? You should be real and you should have confidence in that. But also, you know, try to think about what it is you want to stand for. What is going to be your mantra? Is it rainbows or is it anti-rainbows, right? For me, it's positioning. I mean, that's what I talk about. That's what I hammer. And just know, it might get

a little boring, but the best brands know that it's the reinforcement of that. So, you know, trying to be a new thing every day instead of picking one lane and having, you know, a post every day about, you know, crazy ads you see. I like to post on my Instagram about crazy line extensions I see. Did you know they had Morton Salt is a, now they have a cleaning product? That's crazy.

But that's kind of my take on the world and you become known for that. And even down to, you know, what you dress. It can be a unique thing to, you know, pick that uniform, pick a color. I'm red. You know, Taylor Swift is orange and everything now is orange, right?

I mean, it was a very effective way to have that clear idea, clear identity, clear focus, and then repeat, repeat, repeat. Okay. So on that note, what would you say to somebody like me who's like, I'm not sure yet and I don't want to get stuck, right? So like I haven't picked a color or, you know, in my world, if I'm thinking competitors, I mean, obviously Mel Robbins doesn't see me as a competitor. I think of that as more of an aspirational thing, but like she has her glasses. And so it's like, okay, glasses probably shouldn't be my thing, even though I wear

glass. Like, how do you sort through the mind fuck of all of this and like get in on something that you're willing to commit to or stick with for an extended period of time? Like at the beginning of the podcast, I often say, you know, redefining what it means and what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. But so often I am preparing a podcast. I'm like, I'm not going to say that again. It's getting so old. People must be bored with that. Like, no, they're not bored. They're not bored. You know, think about it's the repetition of some. That's why you have cheers at football games or you repeat the same phrases. It energizes people. It reminds them. It reinforces. And unfortunately, it is, it is can be boring for the person itself, but for the listener. I mean, you know, that's, that's, that gives them the mojo. That reminds them why there's, there every, you know, episode or, you know, every time. I mean, very interesting statistic. There was a study done of who paid the most attention to automobile car advertising. And you would think, well, somebody who wants to buy a car, duh, that wasn't true. It was actually the people

that had just bought the car. And they were watching the commercial to reinforce the decision that they already made. So again, reinforcing it is always a good idea. And that's, you know, a very very important thing for people to remember. Okay. Would your recommendation be to pick an imagery, pick a color, and just go with it as long as you love it? Like our style or, you know, we had a mayor here who would put a big flower, you know, a pin every time she appeared.

You know, it can be many things. I mean, Seth Godin with his, you know, bald head and his glasses, there's lots of different things you can do. But here's the thing. You can play around and do, you know, try different things. you're only a brand when you become noticed and you become famous, right? So, you know, people don't pay attention to all the, you know, things you might try early on. It's only when you're well established that it becomes very difficult to change that brand. Or it becomes a big news event, right, if you change

your brand or that kind of thing. And maybe that's part of your play as well. But think back, I don't know if you know the brand Lalo, but it's a child furniture and toys and everything. But they tried many products before they really hit it big with the high chair. They had a stroller, but few people remember that, you know, because there were other strong solar brands like Bugaboo and others. So that wasn't, you know, a big hit. It was the high chair that was, you know, the minimalist design that really stood out and, you know, letting, you know, people think that their ugly plastic highchair wasn't going to ruin the decor of their house when you bring that baby home. Yeah. Okay. I think there are some obvious answers to this

question, but how do you know when it's working? How do you know when you're being, noticed for your brand and like when to lock in versus when to pivot? Well, you know, whether or not it is something that is picked up and verbalized by other people, that's the true test. Because think about, you know, the brand you saying it is one thing. But it's when other people say it, relate to it and repeat it, that's when you know it's working, when other people notice it. And so, you know, even talking to people, I mean, I, you know, the elevator test is a great one, right? get in the elevator, you know, can you quickly tell someone what you do? And do they get excited? Do

they resonate it? Even with my book, you know, early on, you're so nervous. Like, is this going to work? Do we like the cover? Do we like the title? But in talking to people, those reactions are what fueled me. Or in some cases, we made dramatic pivots when, you know, our initial title was a total loser. And we made the change to something much stronger because it, you know, it really, it got the conversation going and made sense. Yeah. I actually think that's probably the best example I have in my life because book title, we had started with the ConfidenceCon and I was talking to people and it was people that were somewhat interested, but and then when it got to validationist for parking, you could like actually see people's reactions and it was, you know, exactly what we wanted.

But it took some massaging and some figuring out and some like, oh, that's not quite having the response or the reaction or people aren't going to remember that when they walk out of the elevator, but validation is for parking. They do. It's a brilliant title, again, because it lends itself to a visual in the mind. And that's always a stronger position. Well, one of my book titles, you know, initially when we started writing, it was going to be the PR error. I mean, boring. But we ended up calling it the fall of advertising and the rise of PR. I mean, talk about calling out a strategic enemy. But here's the thing. If you read the book, we actually don't say that advertising is terrible. We just say that it's not very effective. It's not very useful in launching a brand because you don't have credentials. You don't have the money.

But advertising is incredibly important in, you know, reinforcing a brand and, you know, reminding people of what you stand for and defending against competitors that are going to compete with you. But the title was very provocative and set up that contrast. And then, of course, on the cover, we had the runover sock puppet, which was, you know, one of the most iconic, you know, disastrous ad campaigns of, you know, launching a brand purely with advertising instead of PR. Okay. Well, I know I'm pre-ordering the book right now, the strategic enemy. And I'm sure our listeners are going to want to dive into it as well because I just find

this so important and fascinating and frankly really. hard. And as you said earlier, having that outside perspective, I think of the quote, it's hard to read the label from inside the bottle. And that's where we are with ourselves and with our businesses, right? We're in it. Yeah. And so using outside resources, whether that be a book or your actual services and things like that, I think can be incredibly helpful. So again, reminder to you, the listener, the book is called The Strategic Enemy. You can also go to strategic enemy.com. And we're going to put all of the ways to find and follow Laura in show notes as well.

Laura, thank you for the work that you're doing. I wish you could just brand me. And thank you for being here today. Thank you so much. That's so fun. All right, friend, building and being a brand that you care so deeply about, that's so true to you that you're willing to fight for, that flies in the face of the messaging we've been fed for so long up to this point,

which is fit in, don't make waves, be everything to everyone. And for the love of God, make sure you look good while doing. it. That is exactly why I love this concept, because I have yet to meet a person who's found joy, contentment, or real success by playing small and worrying about pleasing everyone. This is about your work, your relationships, your cause, your life, because you're the only one who gets to live it. So name your enemy. Find the hills that you're willing to die on. Discover who you truly are and what you truly want. Reject the shoulds. Give your fingers to the supposed to torch the old playbook and write your own damn rules. Who runs the world? You decide

because that is woman's work.