This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Closing the Fulfillment Gap with Dr. Helen Krug von Nidda | 436

Starting point is 00:00:02 Made it! Part of the Beast is the must-see adventure of the year. It's just you and me, boy. One of the most extraordinary on-screen brunch you'll ever see. I'll get you home. Brad Pitt, Part of the Beast. September 25th. Get tickets now.

Starting point is 00:00:17 New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to help. to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight.

Starting point is 00:00:36 Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover coffee plus on espresso.com. If you love the show, the best way to keep it going is simple. Share it, rate it, and support the sponsors who support us. I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast, which feels a little ironic given today's topic,

Starting point is 00:01:10 because apparently work isn't working all that well for women. Because most of the women I talk to you are not fulfilled, not happy. Hell, a lot of women aren't even content. We've just gotten really good at looking like we are. Ask a working woman how things are going. You'll probably get some version of good, busy. But get past the 10-minute surface conversation and the truth starts leaking out. She's exhausted, bored, underutilized,

Starting point is 00:01:40 and overwhelmed. Often somehow both, which is impressive if you think about it. She's questioning what she's doing, wondering if this is really as good as it gets, and fantasizing about quitting. And this can be particularly confusing for successful women because we've been taught to measure career success by the things that we can see. Titles, promotions, salary, recognition, influence. So we collect the credentials, climb the ladder, become increasingly competent at doing increasingly impressive things and assume fulfillment will be waiting for us somewhere near the top. But it appears we forgot to send fulfillment the calendar invite. And when our career looks good but doesn't feel good, we convince ourselves the answer is in the next

Starting point is 00:02:30 promotion, the next company, the next accomplishment. Or we decide we need to burn it all down and quit everything, move to Italy and open a bookstore. Okay, that may be just what I would do. So maybe fulfillment doesn't require dramatic reinvention or a big move, but for the record, I still remain open to Italy. Maybe it requires getting honest about who we are today because we change. Our values change. Our priorities change. What energizes us changes. Our capacity sure as hell changes. So why do we expect a career design for a previous version of ourselves to keep fitting forever. And before I pin it all on us, I'm highly aware that organizations, leaders, partners, policies, and culture all play a role in making work better for women. But we cannot abdicate our

Starting point is 00:03:23 role in our own fulfillment. We can't wait for someone else to figure out what a fulfilling work life looks like for each and every one of us because they couldn't possibly know. But we sure is shit should for ourselves, or at least we got to figure it out. And that's a lot. And that's, That's where our guest comes in. Dr. Helen Krug Vonneeda is an executive coach, licensed career counselor, an instructor at Stanford University who has spent more than 20 years helping women navigate their own careers. Her forthcoming book, Closing the Fulfillment Gap, offers a practical framework for designing a work life that actually fits who you are today. So, Helen, welcome to the show. And before we talk about closing the fulfillment gap,

Starting point is 00:04:07 I want to make sure we know what it is. So my first question is, what is the fulfillment gap and how can somebody tell whether or not they're experiencing it? Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on this show. I'm very excited for this conversation. Me too. I want to start with the premise of the book, which was that our parents' generation,

Starting point is 00:04:28 certainly our mothers, had an opportunity gap then, right? Obviously, less opportunities. We now see that today we have at least more access to different. different things that we are able to take on as working women. However, as you've beautifully pointed out, we now have this fulfillment gap. And the fulfillment gap, to me, what I've been seeing in the research is about the distance between what our expectations were, our intentions, and what we're actually experiencing. So that has become this gap, because based on all that is out there, you would expect us to have taken advantage of the opportunities and have found

Starting point is 00:05:06 fulfillment, but it's actually not happening. So the fulfillment gap remains as wide as it ever was. Okay, so I really love this because I think you are dead on. It was an opportunity gap. Now there's a fulfillment gap. And I think there are some portions of the population that think, okay, well, then let's go backwards, right? Let's go back to when we were, and I put in air quotes, more fulfilled with less opportunity. And for me, you can say that is absolutely unequivocally not the But what I often think is that all of our opportunities, all of the advancements have somehow become additive. Yes, you can work and you can be successful and you can have ambition, but you still have to take care of the home, take care of the kids, earth humans, you know, all the things. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:56 And so how much of our lack of fulfillment has to do with being just so universally overwhelmed? What do you think? So I think that, as you've just said, there are things I like to call it the three Cs. We are in a comparison trap, right? We are constantly looking at what's happening left, right, and center, and social media isn't helping with that. So that's the issue. We are at capacity, as you've said, so the work has become additive.

Starting point is 00:06:25 And even if you're working remotely, you actually realize that now you can work longer hours and into the night and into the morning. So it just has made it worse. And then we're at capacity. So those three things have been new layers that have been added on even more so, even with technology, which has made things go a lot faster. We obviously have more data now than our parents' generation did, so we're able to see, well, what are the pockets and moments that we can actually be looking at to be more intentional

Starting point is 00:06:57 about infusing more of what it is that we need to have? And I think we're going to get into that. But the fulfillment gap is saying we see it. And now the idea is, okay, we're at capacity. How do we now sort of try to shoehorn ourselves backwards into what it is that we want? We don't want to go back. But there are some tools that we maybe are not using to our best advantage at the moment as well. Okay.

Starting point is 00:07:20 Thinking about AI, for example. So I want to talk about all of that. But before I do one more kind of basic question is, are we really unfulfilled, based on your research and experience, you know, I sort of set the tone as if we are, but that's based on my conversations. It's somewhat anecdotal. So my question is, are we really that unfulfilled? And is there a huge difference between women and men or at certain ages? You are doing the research. What is it showing you? Yes. So the research was showing, because I started doing this research when I was doing my doctoral studies a couple years back,

Starting point is 00:07:56 and the research was based on the fact that women are more unfulfilled today than they were in the 60s and 70s. So that was where that premise started. Having had endless coaching conversations with women today, we're getting the same data. Yes, great, I have the job, I have this, I've got the dog, the children, whatever it is that I have wanted. And yet, I'm not as fulfilled. Now, what I can't prove at this point is whether we are now more open to having these conversations that we were before, there were podcasts, we were, you know, writing letters and things. So is there more opportunity to actually share what's really on our mind, which I think is important to note? I feel that the cohorts that I have run, the show that you have allows

Starting point is 00:08:44 people to just tell their truth and to say what they have. I hope so. I certainly hope so. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about something you identify in the book, which is the difference between, I'm just going to call it success and fulfillment. I think so much of us have. conflated the two. We think career success is equal to career fulfillment, but that's not what's actually happening. How do we reconcile or how intertwined or connected are external success and internal fulfillment? Right. So I would say that you have two camps and you have the external appearances that, as you point out, are the measure of success, the corner office, the car, all of that, you know, aspirations that we have. And that is a very different kind of meaning and

Starting point is 00:09:38 fulfilling experience than having something internal. We know that self-determination theory, which is the theory of fulfillment, basically, has three very distinct parts of it. Individuals need, in order to be fulfilled, and here I'm putting individuals generally, we need autonomy. We need autonomy, the ability to be able to have our own flexibility, to be at choice, extremely important. We need to have relatedness, which is also known as connection, connection with each other. And lastly, we need to be able to thrive and be in an environment where we are using our competence or our skill set. And so what tends to happen, if you look at the, if when we're measuring success and you start looking at, well, are those three elements actually,

Starting point is 00:10:29 fully there and you'll find out that probably maybe you have the, you're using the skill set, but there is no freedom left because now you're the CEO of a company and so that has gone, right? And maybe you don't have the relatedness, the competence piece. And so if we think of fulfillment as having as being the foundation, you can use that as your gauge to sort of think through, is this what's happening? And I would say that we've been measuring success and not fulfillment. Okay, so I love this framework. All three speak to me individually for sure. And I can tell you when I have felt unfulfilled, as I think about each of the, I can tell you exactly where what was missing or whether all three were missing. And when I have felt the most fulfilled is when I've had a good

Starting point is 00:11:18 balance or good measure of all three. Now, I think how we experience those things may evolve through our life stages. So something that may have fulfilled me in my 20s might not today as I'm 50 years old. So how do we, I don't know if check in, reflect, pay attention to our fulfillment over time? Yes. Yeah. I'd love to answer that by pointing to some research which was done by two women who did a research on a couple thousand women around career stages and career experience. It was Manero and Sullivan did the study in 2006, I believe, and they looked at women's career phases. And three very, again, three's, three very distinct phases emerged. We are at any given moment, and this is really cross the board, and they were only studying women because most of the career studies have typically been male related.

Starting point is 00:12:20 So they wanted to see how it was happening with women. And they found three things, which I think speak to what you've mentioned. And at any given point, we are either looking for or leaning more towards authenticity, sort of the self-reflective period of our life and, you know, taking a moment, taking a step back, or you're looking at balance or integration, like work-life integration. This is a time when actually I'm just looking to get through the day? Or you're ready and engaged in a challenge. So the model is called ABC, or the kaleidoscope model, authenticity, balance, and challenge.

Starting point is 00:12:53 And it speaks to your point that, of course, course, along our career trajectory, it's going to be different. I would say that I'm maybe now challenge slash, you know, authenticity, because I'm launching a book. And so this is sort of how I'm feeling, but that has not always been the energy. And it's cyclical. And I think that helps women kind of normalize where they might be feeling in any given moment in that career journey. I so appreciate, and I just want to reiterate that you said it's cyclical, because I don't want the listener to think it's linear. Like I'm going to be in the authentic stage

Starting point is 00:13:27 and then I'm going to be in integration and then I can see that you're agreeing with me. So, because that hasn't been my experience and it might be sometimes year to year or week to week where it evolves and flows. It evolves and flows. And I think we also have to remember that as women, any decisions we make have an impact

Starting point is 00:13:46 on our relationships, our roles, our responsibilities, because we typically are the ones who are wearing several hats, as we know. And so with that in mind, it can send you into different phases because we may not have the luxury to be having an introspective moment.

Starting point is 00:14:04 You may just need to get through the day. Yeah. And that's what matters. Okay, so I think you've done a great job identifying the fulfillment gap. Now let's talk about closing it. And I would imagine that the vast majority of people listening in

Starting point is 00:14:21 are not feeling. particularly fulfilled, again, based on my conversations and experience. So if the listener is like, okay, I'm not fulfilled, something is missing or I'm in a particular stage, but I want to close that gap. Let's start with the move framework that you offer in your book. How can we leverage that to begin to close the gap? Yeah. I would love to start with that. And I think I'll start with, through the example of a client who I will call her Zara for the purposes of explaining. And I also want to say that when people are feeling unfulfilled or a little bit, like, just unsure the inkling is to just drop it all, right? And what I'm really here to say is that is not the moment to do that.

Starting point is 00:15:08 The moment you're feeling a little uncomfortable is a moment of reflection and self-awareness, but not necessarily the moment to make the move because you don't have enough data points. You don't have enough data points to start exploring. You might, but most people don't. So I'll take the case of Zara, and the reason why I'm going to take you through the move framework, which is four parts that I identified as being supportive of someone's journey when they're looking to find more fulfillment. Zara is a senior executive.

Starting point is 00:15:42 She'd actually finished an MBA program, an 18-month MBA program, you know, husband, child, and all. of that. So working full on, loves her company, goes into her boss's office to ask for a raise. She's just finished 18 months of that. And basically she got the, that's great. You're not getting that. Sorry, it was a raise and it was also a title change for all that she'd been doing, 18 months, really high level MBA program. And the answer was, no, just happy you're here and you're already making good money. super demotivated. Super demotivated.

Starting point is 00:16:18 So the first part of the move framework is around motivation. One thing, that's the thing you need to address, but it's also the thing you need to be clear about. And motivation is the actual fuel to what lets you know what you want to do. So as we talked about the ABC model, are you looking for more authenticity or balance or challenge? You have to be able to know that before you've been thinking about making a move. So we identified for her. She was just looking for visibility, which was kind of like hidden under the whole piece around finding more balance in her life.

Starting point is 00:16:53 She didn't want to quit. She loved her job. Great. So the next piece is, well, where are the opportunities, which is the O of the MOO framework? And within that, there are some other subcategories. But what I will say is one important one is accessing networks. And women typically are great relationally, but we're not great at you. using our connections to ask for help.

Starting point is 00:17:17 And so we have all these underutilized links to people who could support, you know, a career journey or exploration. And so we focus on that for her because the idea was, how do I then like get more visible, maybe get more speaking things whilst I'm still working? And that was LinkedIn. So we did a huge strategy with her for LinkedIn, really accessing her networks there. The third part of the model is the V, which is vision. And vision, if you think about it, most people don't necessarily know what they want to do maybe a year, three years from now.

Starting point is 00:17:53 But they have an idea of things that they like to experience and things they don't. And so for me, vision means think about what it is you want to experience, even six months from now. What would look different for you just six months from now? That is already a piece of vision. And that's something for you to focus on. It's the thread that starts the motion. And so we obviously, she knew specifically she wanted to speak on more stages. She wanted to enter more women's groups.

Starting point is 00:18:22 Great. So we set her up. The last piece, which is the center of my framework, is called the E for Encouraging Community. Because nothing, nothing happens unless you have support from friends, neighbors, colleagues. It's a very important piece because these conversations, when you are feeling stark or a bit dissatisfied, it's important to be able to have someone you can count on or a couple people. They don't necessarily have to be close friends, but at least to be in communities and or to listen in to different programs that really speak to you. And so move to me came about because it was the answer to the obstacles that women who were unfulfilled were facing. They were unmotivated, didn't really know what opportunities to.

Starting point is 00:19:08 to go after, vision wasn't clear, and they were not tapping into their support. And so when you flip that, it becomes the move framework. Having a teenager who's becoming more independent is both a blessing and a curse. I want her to have freedom, but I also want to know that she's okay without turning into a full-time stalker. And that's what I like about Hey Polo. It's a family safety app built around consent. Everyone controls what they share, with whom and for how long, whether that's an exact location, general area, or private mode, because trust and privacy still matter, even when we worry.

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Starting point is 00:20:35 Part of the beast is the must-see adventure of the year. It's just you and me, boy. One of the most extraordinary on-screen brunch you'll ever see. I'll get you home. Brad Pitt, Art of the Beast. September 25th. Get tickets now. New from Nespresso.

Starting point is 00:20:50 Blend wellness into your coffee routine with the coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso, with ginseng extract.

Starting point is 00:21:11 Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nisprosso.com. Again, couldn't agree more. And I'm thinking back at times in my own life. And that's exactly what was missing. And also exactly the opportunity that lay in front of me,

Starting point is 00:21:30 wish I would have the framework back then. But I want to hone in on vision, mostly because I have said many times, I'm not the best at vision. That one is a little bit hard for me, and I like the way you framed it. It's sort of what are the experiences that you're looking for? And what I have found when I do come up with something that means something to me

Starting point is 00:21:52 is when I think about those experiences that I'm looking for or the ones that I'm not, and sometimes looking at what you don't like or what isn't if it can give you some insight into what is. Do you agree or is that? And I'm just going to put in air quotes, focusing on the negative because that's sometimes the feedback I get. All right. I mean, really, I'm like, yes, thank you for saying that because a lot of people don't know. And if you don't know what it is that you want, because that's the classic question,

Starting point is 00:22:25 what do you want? I have no idea. Okay. But you certainly know what you don't want. So we can start by the process of elimination. It works every time. You know, you don't want to work. You don't want to work with numbers.

Starting point is 00:22:36 you don't want to work in a different country. Like there are things that you can eliminate, which will help with the clarity and the focus on what it is that you do want to experience. Yeah. So I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one. And I do think that a question that I've used, and it's in the book, actually, there's this little quiz which is called like the 27 experiences, which is not from me, but it's from a professor, Dr. Bayardtas,

Starting point is 00:23:03 who put this question together, which is around just brain. storm 27 things that you want to experience in this lifetime. Just write them down. Different post-its, put them down, take no more than 10 minutes, and then start to look at what themes emerge for you as you collect them. Because you're going to notice some patterns, and even that can give you a bit of a hint, like, okay, so a direction that I'm interested in is, you know, I don't know, maybe it's basket weaving or it can be anything, but you might get some hints. And it's also like joyful and uplifting thing for you to do. I often think of experiences like that as breadcrumbs or threads.

Starting point is 00:23:41 There's something about this feeling that I don't need to know exactly where I'm going or exactly how I'll get there. But I can pay attention to and follow the clues. Okay, so as somebody who hasn't felt very strong in the vision category, one of the things I do often lean on are values because I'm pretty clear about those. How do our values or can our values help us make career decisions? I love that, that you mentioned that because within values. So when I talk about the move framework, each has like motivation, opportunities, vision

Starting point is 00:24:20 and encouraging community, excuse me, has subsections. And motivation starts with values, skills, and recognition. And the first bit of homework you need to do to kind of identify where you are today is just explore your values again because fundamentally they don't change, but they do shift. So, you know, whereas you might have valued freedom 20 years ago, now maybe it's family because you've got a family at home. So they do change and they matter a lot and you have to start there as a point of reference. Because if you use your values to think about how much of what I value actually shows up in my life, that's another great pointer. That's another breadcrime.

Starting point is 00:25:03 So if you value flexibility, but you're in an organization where you absolutely don't have that, you know that that's assigned to you to be looking at something different or a different aspect of the work maybe within that organization. But it's really, these are great breadcrumbs. Okay. So as somebody's working through the Move framework, identifying their values, and I do, I want to point out as an introvert, I have undervalued the community aspect of a it far too much. I agree completely that we're not really that great at leveraging our resources or other people, but I will tell you, even worse than that for me was I undervalued it in the first place. I was like, oh, I'm an introvert. I don't need people, right? Which is total bullshit.

Starting point is 00:25:51 Why is this so important? And is this just a woman thing? Or is this really valuable for everybody as it relates to fulfillment? So relationships is valuable for everyone. And Any kind of research, whether you're listening to Arthur Brooks or the longest study on human happiness, any of the research, all the thought leaders around like joy and happiness and fulfillment point to one thing, and that is relationships. Relationships, because it's really about what do I value, how much do I feel valued? Like, we want to matter in this world. And that happens through relationships. And even as an introvert, by the way, I think there are some wonderful online communities where you can just barely show up with a camera off or maybe you can just go to a coffee date.

Starting point is 00:26:46 But there are ways where we can be in connection without it being overwhelming. I also believe in experimentation. So it's like, okay, I'm not typically like a network or whatever, but maybe I could join one community and see what that's like. LinkedIn community, for example, you're basically quietly in the background, but very quietly, but that might be a way. You want to make sure that we're strengthening these linkages with each other. Agreed. And again, I'm curious, your thoughts on this. I think community based on what you enjoy and value and the experiences you're looking for, even if they're not obviously work related, I'll give you

Starting point is 00:27:26 an example, I hate working out and I finally found a gym. It's like nine women who come together and work out and lift really heavy things. And I never in a bazillion years thought I would ever do that. And I do and I don't love it, but I do it and I love it after the fact. But I met a woman in there and for six months we lifted weights around each other. Well, come to find out six months into this that she's a Wall Street Journal bestselling author who's about to release a new book. And like now we can commiserate about our work. She's a keynote speaker. We can talk about it.

Starting point is 00:28:04 There's so much synergy there. And I didn't know it. And it wasn't the purpose of going. Mm-hmm. But I think we can find encouraging community in sometimes unlikely places or not obvious work connection places. Thoughts? Oh, my gosh. music to my ears.

Starting point is 00:28:22 So you're speaking directly to some research by Mark Granavutier called The Strength of of Weak Ties. Have you heard of that theory? No. I love this. I like the name of it. You're a perfect example. The point of the strength of weak tires is that we tend to typically gravitate

Starting point is 00:28:37 towards our immediate circle, who we know, what we do? So when you are looking to get new ideas and new thoughts, you just go to your gang. The strength of weak ties is, well, what about the friend of the friend? or what about when you go to the bakery or you go to the gym, all of a sudden you're meeting someone in a different circle who, I mean, to your point, that is such a cool example of the strength of weak ties, because there's this new opportunity, new friendships, new ideas, new perspectives that immerse from that.

Starting point is 00:29:07 And what his research noted in LinkedIn wrote a big article about it was the fact that most people actually in looking for a next role or new connections found that, the strength of the weaker tires was what helped them make that connection and that leap. So I think this is extremely important and I'm so glad you mentioned it. I love that and I love just that language, the strength of weak ties. I'm borrowing that and it will credit it, but that's very cool. Yeah, out in the world.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Okay, so if somebody goes through the move framework, I believe we're responsible, but we can't control everything, right? So we're responsible for our own fulfillment, but we can't control whether or not this person is going to give us, in Zara's case, the title change and the raise. And we can do all the right things. And sometimes we're just not in the right environment. And so I agree, you know, you don't want to burn it all down as the first step. But sometimes there's a point where it is time to actually move and to leave and to change. How do we know? and then any tips for when we get to that point. Yeah. So, and absolutely, by the way, I just feel like there's an opportunity to first do it what I like to do like a work life audit where you are.

Starting point is 00:30:29 And there's an exercise actually in the book around that, which is just looking at your work life as almost like a pizza, like a pie. And to just attribute it and say, okay, so how much, you know, let's look at like the content of my work or let's look at the energy in the office or my commute. look at the different pieces to first get a sense of, is it the whole job or just aspects that I maybe just want to tweak? So that's already like the first easier step. I think doing an audit is great. If at that point you realize, okay, this is actually not working for me, great. The next step from there is conversations because this is where the strength of weak ties comes in.

Starting point is 00:31:09 It is very difficult to do a move. And we've just seen this recently with women. in sending out hundreds and hundreds of CVs out into, you know, the ether and nothing landing. We need to be having conversations to get data to understand what's out there, who's doing what. Most jobs are not even advertised anymore. So I would say this is an opportunity to, it is harder for people who are introverted. I get that. But then maybe there's like a slightly more like LinkedIn style approach. How can you increase some of the conversations you're having to be intentional about what you need more information about to help you make a decision to move. And I also want to add that. I look at Move and this just came to me after the book has now

Starting point is 00:31:56 been published. It's a bit like a flywheel in the sense that you may not have to start with motivation. You may already have that very clear, but maybe to your point, Nicole, you said, oh, you know, the encouraging community part was something that I hadn't touched on and that's, you could start there, right? It's very much up to you to decide where, where, where, you know, where to start. And that's honestly the whole premise of this show is we are the deciders, right? And so having these tools and these frameworks help us so much, but we still get to do the work and we still get to make the decisions and we still get to find our own fulfillment. So my last question, even though I have a bazillion more, but I will hone it down to one, is what's one move or

Starting point is 00:32:39 one action that the person listening to us right now can make like now or this week or in the next 30 days to feel more fulfilled in their work. So I would do the very simple, the first thing I would do is do a general audit. I would take move. You don't even know like the intricacies of it, but I would just go, okay, let's put these four buckets. How do, you know, how satisfied am I like with my motivation? How clear am I on the scale of one to ten? I would look at opportunities, you know, how comfortable am I with the opportunities that I have? I would look at vision. Do I even know?

Starting point is 00:33:17 Like how satisfied am I with thinking about what I think might be my vision? And then who's in my corner? And I would start by doing that audit to just get a landscape and then say, oh my gosh, I actually need to do some work in this area versus that area. Because the other thing that's, I think, important to say, and I know as a coach, is that it's so overwhelming. And the moment you start to think that you're miserable or you know you're miserable at work, that's like another job in itself.

Starting point is 00:33:47 And you don't want that to be like the Sunday night thing that you do when you've ended the day of the week and put, you know, sorted the house out. And so to sort of quieten that part down and give people an opportunity, it's like, just start with that. Yeah. And then dive in. Great advice. And I just want to reiterate that that audit and so many other resources are in Helen's book. It's called Closing the Fulfillment Gap. It's available on Amazon or wherever it is that you buy books, but let's keep our local

Starting point is 00:34:18 bookstores in business. And you can also subscribe to Helen's substack. It's called Career Joy with Helen. We're going to put those links as well as all the other ways to find and follow Helen in show notes. And I just want to thank you for this conversation for, I mean, really, truly excellent tools that I know I'm going to use and wish I would have had over many decades. So Helen, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on your show. This has been wonderful. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:34:49 Absolutely my pleasure. All right, friend, I'm going to close us out with this. This is a complex issue for sure, but you will never convince me that we don't have power. Maybe not all the power, not power over every circumstance, system, person, or outcome, but we have power over our choices, our actions, what we tolerate, what we pursue, how we move, and what we're willing to risk and to change. And if we want to close the fulfillment gap, or any gap for that matter, we have to stop overlooking the power we already have. Recognize it, own it, wield it. Because ultimately, fulfillment isn't something we find. It's something we create,

Starting point is 00:35:32 even if it's one breadcrumb at a time. And using our power to create a life and work that fulfills us, well, that is woman's work. Maining! Made it! Part of the Beast is the must-see adventure of the year. It's just you and me, boy.

Starting point is 00:35:56 One of the most extraordinary on-screen branch you'll ever see. I'll get you home. Brad Pitt, Art of the Beast. September 25th. Get tickets now. Hey there, I'm Travis Hoym. hosts of Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing. Each weekday on Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing,

Starting point is 00:36:13 we talk through the business news you need to know, and the story's moving stocks on Wall Street. On weekends, we game plan personal finance strategies and dive into the industries shaping tomorrow and host the experts, authors, and executives that understand them. Tune in for insights and a long-term perspective on investing, and of course, stock ideas, plenty of them. To quote a listener, it pays to listen.

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This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Closing the Fulfillment Gap with Dr. Helen Krug von Nidda | 436

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