This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Etiquette We Should All Know with Heather Wiese | 220

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Our topic today may sound like one that falls under the old definition of woman’s work, but we’re going to talk about the etiquette everyone should know today. Heather Wiese joins us, as an Etiquette Writer and Founder of Bell’INVITO, a woman-owned, responsible luxury brand that sells stationery and leather goods made with heart and high standards. Heather is passionate about empowering others by teaching social skills and outlining how to invest in relationships for optimal results. She advocates re-facing old-school stodgy etiquette with a new vernacular and refreshing relatability, with the philosophy that the world is a better, kinder place when people invest in social skills and learn about empathy. And she’s here to help us with the do’s & don’ts and ways to be emotionally intelligent in a variety of common social events & situations. While you’re out there doing whatever version of woman’s work feels true for you, remember to mind your manners and follow this old quote – if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything at all. Let’s throw out what no longer works for us, but make sure to bring forward the things that do. Connect with Heather: Website: https://www.bellinvito.com/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/heather_g_wiese/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/bellinvito/  Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsor: Book your in-depth virtual visit with the menopause and perimenopause medical experts at Midi Health by going to joinmidi.com - they accept most major health insurance plans! 

I'm Nicole Kalil, and you're tuning in to another episode of the This Is Woman's Work podcast, where together we're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today, with the new definition being whatever feels true and right and authentic for you. You are the decider, which if you compare it to the old definition is slightly radical. It used to be that woman's work was only about housekeeping and child rearing, domestic duties and catering to the whims of our husbands. And there might be some women who still choose that definition of woman's work, and that's okay because they are the decider for them, you are the decider for you, and I am the

decider for me. I also think it's unlikely that those that love that old definition listen to this podcast, but I could be wrong. As is always true when change happens, some things are lost and new things are found. We let go of the old to make room for the new. And this may sound very old-fashioned of me, but one of the things that I believe we've lost a little too much of in the transition is basic etiquette. I'm not talking about formal table settings and curtsying or strict dress codes or women moving into the drawing room so that gentlemen can talk kind of etiquette. No, I'm talking about manners, awareness of social norms, and ways to function in society that are thoughtful and respectful of others that we all are aware of regardless of our gender. I don't know about you, but I often find myself Googling things like when and how much to tip movers or delivery people or second guessing

how much to spend or give at weddings. Basically, I love the direction that we're going, but I wish we'd bring along some etiquette because frankly, I think we could all behave a little better. Whether it's traveling to different countries or visiting different cultures, being a guest at big events like weddings or communicating on social media, or even at work events where we want to put our best foot forward, it is important that we know about these social norms and expectations. So our topic today might sound like one that falls more under that old definition of woman's work, but we're going to talk about the etiquette everyone should know in today's day and age.

Heather Weiss joins us as an etiquette writer and founder of Bell & Vito, a woman-owned responsible luxury brand that sells stationery and leather goods made with heart and high standards. The company is on a mission to inspire customers to live beautifully and purchase intentionally while educating them on etiquette. Heather is passionate about empowering others by teaching social skills and outlining how to invest in relationships for optimal results. She advocates refacing old school stodgy etiquette with new vernacular and refreshing relatability with the philosophy that the world is better and kinder when people

invest in social skills and learn more about empathy. And she's here to help us with the do's and the don'ts and the ways to be emotionally intelligent in a variety of common social events and situations. Heather, thank you for being our guest. And I thought the best way to approach this topic might be to ask about a few, I don't know, experiences or events where etiquette is important, but there's a strong probability we're not being taught proper behavior anymore in our day-to-day lives. Does that sound like a good place to start? Yes. I'm smiling from ear to ear. I wish everybody could see that. Your intro was just amazing and spot on. And I know I'm passionate about this topic ear. I wish everybody could see that your intro was just amazing and

spot on. And I know I'm passionate about this topic. I don't know if you get this way, but I know I'm so passionate about this topic because when I see it click in people's minds, I like my eyes tear up, you know, I'm just like, because etiquette, as you were saying, is so empowering. And when you don't know what you don't know, usually the reaction when you find out is negative. It's somehow- Yeah, you're embarrassed, right? Right. Right. So it's defensive or it's however you respond to negative energy coming at you or negative energy that you just discovered inside yourself. So when you have that little bit of education, all of a sudden you're confronted with something you know.

And not only do you know how to behave properly, but you're kind of proud of yourself, even just for a split second. Oh, I knew that. And all of a sudden you're a nicer person because none of that negative energy just flowed into your experience for that moment. And it's the impact of etiquette knowledge. It's just, it's world changing for people. That speaks to my personal experience. I will also add to, it boils down to a matter of respect for me. I don't know if this is true for other people, but a lot of these social norms and etiquette things are about respecting other people's experience, their cultures, their...

Their space, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'd love to start with weddings and showers. I literally just went to one this weekend, so it's top of mind, but it's inevitable that we're going to be invited to these events as women, especially. And in some ways they're changing and becoming bigger and more stressful. And in other ways they're changing and becoming less stressful and more comfortable. I don't know. It's this weird, it depends, I guess, on the wedding, right? Right, right. Let's start with how to be a good guest. Oh, I love this. I like to just go right down the invitation.

I mean, you have an invitation in front of you, right? So you're getting there. And the first thing that you want to do when you get the invitation, you want to look and see who the hosts are and the hosts are who are inviting. So if the bride and groom are inviting you and it's worded that way, they're also the hosts. If the parents of the bride, which is the most traditional or the parents of the groom, I mean, we're all into whoever, whomever. Um, the first thing is responding to the host. The first thing that you have to do for great guest etiquette is respond.

You need to respond in the way that the host has set aside for you to respond, whether it's, and don't do it in another way. Don't, your way's not better. Yeah. Don't email them if there's a card. Yeah. Come on. If there's a card, send the card back. If there's an email, don't text them because it's easier and you have them in your phone so that their responses are funneled into one place. We have way too many touch points. I don't want to collect as a host, my DMs and my texts and my emails and then try to figure out how many people are coming and which ones actually we're trying to be thorough and respond in three different places. So do that. And second, I would say the second thing, because everybody likes to get dressed and pay attention,

look at the venue and look at the time of day. Are we in a garden at three o'clock in July in the South? Knowing where you're going to be and how you're going to dress is, is part of just being prepared and being prepared and showing up ready to do what you're there for, which is honor somebody else's wishes for a couple of hours and celebrate with them. that is being a fantastic guest right there out of the gate. Mm-hmm.

On the note of the invitation, also who it's addressed to, right? If it says your name and guest, then you get to bring somebody. I'm so glad you brought that up. If it says your name, then you are invited. Or if it is like adults only, don't be like, hey, can I bring my kid? I mean, what the actual, these things are happening on a very regular basis. And I'm so confused by it. It couldn't be any more clear. Right. And I have people ask me all the time. I mean, and bless them. This is probably the hardest thing as the

etiquette person to say, how do I politely tell people no children? And it's like, well, you're responding to something that's a rude behavior with something that's also considered a rude behavior. So there's really not a right answer there. The right answer to your point is to look at the envelope, who it's addressed to. There's nothing on the invitation itself that tells you who it's addressed to. The envelope is who it's addressed to. And in the formal setting, you've got two envelopes. You've got the mailing envelope that got obliterated and run over by the truck and all those things. You've got that. And it's just the head of the household's name. So if I'm living by myself, I've got my name on the outside of the envelope.

And then on the inside of the envelope, it would say my name and guest if I was allowed to bring a guest to this event. Or if I had a husband, it would be my husband's name, usually Mr. and Mrs. And some people are skipping the inner envelope and just doing something different. So if they skipped the inner envelope, then all the names would be on the outside. This is just a blanket. You never ask your host if somebody else can come. Yeah.

You just don't. There are a whole bunch of respect reasons that if we wanted to go down that road, we could. It's not about do this because I told you so. I'm a huge why. And if you don't know the why, feel free to just keep poking that bear until you finally get the why. The why on that one is people don't need to tell you things that you don't need to know just because of your own

curiosity. And if you were, if you were invited as a single person and you don't have a plus one and you're uncomfortable, then you need to just bow out. And that's okay too. You politely decline. Yes. Because that is an option. Yeah. Same with children. If you need to bring your children and they don't have childcare, a lot of these things are financial and it's just, it's rude to poke around in that and it's none of your business. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. What about gift giving? You know, we've got to registry. A lot of people give money or like honeymoon funds or things like that. Is there anything as a guest that we should be thinking about when we decide how much to spend? You know, obviously personal

budget is one thing, but is there an etiquette or basic manners thing we should be thinking about? There are. And honestly, I'm constantly looking this up because it is constantly changing. But the rule of thumb right now is that very close family. And again, I say this with such, these are things that you can search and Google. But I say this with such hesitation because I want to be really sensitive to people's financial situations. And just because the national average of something does not mean that you're going to look bad if you do something a little bit different. So with etiquette, it's really about, again, you know, showing up. And if you gave a gift at the engagement party and the shower and, you know, you really only need to give one gift per wedding.

And if you, you know, gave something along the way, you don't necessarily need to give another one. Will people? Yeah, they will. And I can't sit here and try to tell you how you're going to look because everybody's going to have different opinions. You can do the same thing and one person reads it as ostentatious because you gave too much and you were a show off. And the other person thinks you're cheap because you didn't give enough. So don't worry about that. Just throw that to the wayside. So, you know, one gift per couple per occasion is fine. And the national average, I want to say, if they're a family member, someone who's

you would consider close is around $100. And if they're not, if they're just a good friend, then it's around $50. And, you know, and it kind of went a little bit down from there. If they were it kind of stayed in that area, I want to say like 35 to 55, if they were like a work buddy, but nothing else, you know, but those are, those are very vague. I think, I mean, I think they're constantly changing. You know, what has been the most frustrating part of perimenopause for me, you'd think it was the hot flashes, brain fog, insomnia, and weight gain, or maybe the increased moodiness, like anyone in my life needed any more of that.

But no, it's the not knowing that perimenopause was what was triggering those things. I genuinely thought that perimenopause was something that would happen in my late 40s, not start in my early 40s. So why are we not talking about this more? And why can't I find doctors that at least appear to be trying to help? Because here's the deal. We deserve to feel great at every age. And the experts at Middie Health understand what you're experiencing and know how to help. They are menopause experts dedicated to providing safe, effective FDA approved solutions and are covered by major insurance providers. Schedule an in-depth virtual visit to discuss your unique experiences and symptoms and leave

feeling heard and with a plan. You don't have to go it alone. Book your virtual visit today at joinmidi.com. That's joinmidi.com. And now that we covered that, we'll head back to the show. Okay. I want to switch over to travel because I think that is another big thing that we're all doing, hopefully all doing and loving. But I think that there is definitely an emotional intelligence and basic manners piece and also some etiquette. What should we

be thinking about when we travel to a different state or a different country? That's good. Well, you've got the travel, like the journey, right, itself, and then when you get there. So on the journey itself, I just say pack patience. And that whole late is rude. Actually, no one thinks about this, but it is the same way when you're traveling. And I don't mean like culturally showing up late when you get there, different cultures are kind of, you know, different, but I mean at the airport, if you, I'm a last minute traveler, I don't want to get there and sit there two hours before I hate it. I won't do it. But at the same time, if, if I ran late or if I chose to go a

little bit later, because I would rather sit at home and do fun things and sit at the airport. And then I am, you know, something that I wasn't prepared for. It is not everybody else's problem around me to now make compensations for, you know, me to get through the line faster or to do this or that, because I didn't come prepared. So when I, I'm a big believer in, you know, me to get through the line faster or to do this or that because I didn't come prepared. So when I, I'm a big believer in, you know, you have to own your choices. That's part of emotional intelligence. So if you chose to not take the TSA, you know, two hours ahead of time and try to squeeze in 45 minutes before, it is not everybody else's problem once you get to the airport. Don't be a jerk when you get there. So I would say, you know, kind of pack patience. You need to make sure that that is that respect to everybody else in the airport who arrived

and doesn't know what you know, because they don't travel as much. Have patience on that journey. Just expect to need to have it and be ready. I think that's so important. I mean, it sounds so, I don't know, it sounds so basic, but it's just something we all don't do. I think people get there and they have their expectations. I see it happen a lot. People have their expectations of how everybody should act and how they're going to act. And then when everybody else in a massive

crowd who's not educated the way they are doesn't act that way, then they have no patience for it. That kind of thing. No, we're backwards on that. So, so, and then when you get there, it's, again, reservations, I am, it's hard to plan ahead in our very reactive, fast paced society. But if you don't, and then people can't accommodate you for, you know, you have to wait behind the people who did think to, you know, you have to wait behind people who did think to, you know, think ahead and make a reservation for an Uber or for transportation or for the ticket to the museum or whatever, then you just kind of deal with it and don't have a meltdown. Like, I think, I think we're all very reactive and, and, and I see a lot,

especially in young travelers, you know, they get there and they have such an expectation of life as it is at home, and it is wildly different. Well, and to that point, I think there is an element of doing a little bit of research about where it is that you're going. It used to be there are these lonely planet travel guides. I'm aging myself here, but like these books that you could buy about different locations and they'd give you some of the social norms and the etiquette and all of that. And obviously it's still available on the interwebs, right? Like it's not like we can't find it, but I think sometimes we go into like, oh, I'm going to Greece for my vacation. We're so in vacation mode that we forget that that is an entirely different country with different social norms, different ways of interacting and functioning. And I'm the

outsider coming in. I think it's so important to learn a few key catchphrases in the language of the places that you're going, even if it's just please and thank you, or where is the bathroom or whatever, like at least attempt in their language or being mindful about their meals and when they eat and, you know, how they do it. And what are the polite things to do as it relates to eye contact? I mean, there's so many things. So many. But I feel like we have forgotten, even from state to state, we have forgotten that we all have our different cultures. And when we go visit somebody else's hill, I think it's basic manners and a sign of respect if you do just a little bit of digging or at the very least ask when you get there if you're unsure versus expecting them to conform to you. Genuine curiosity to ask those questions as opposed to walking in with expectations is huge. And a lot of times when we're on travel, we think, oh, this is my vacation.

Everything will go well and everything will cater to me because I am the client, I am the customer. Customer's always right and I'm on vacation, I'm paying for this. That's the absolute worst way to go into anything and enjoy it and have a good time and be happy because your expectations are going to be shattered at some point. But if you go in curious and if you go in interested and you're ready to meet people, and this isn't even about like whether your personality is social enough to just meet people around, but just even the waiters or the people that check you into your hotel or most people in that industry are loving that you're asking the question and happy to give you an answer and never walk in with the mentality of

you needing to know everything or you don't look right. No one that's genuinely curious, worst case scenario, it may be endearing as you know, as opposed to, but you just, people don't need to walk in feeling like they should already have those answers. Just be curious. Yep. Good. What about professional events? So you think about, you know, the work holiday party or the celebration event or, you know, something, maybe you're going to a conference. What are some things from an etiquette perspective that we should be thinking as we prepare for those events? I, I tend to talk to young people on this because there's so many young people that are, you know, going into this work workforce that's, that's new. And, and I have the same, I really have the same advice. It's go in with curiosity and

don't get caught up because you know more, you have, young people have a fresh knowledge and they know more about current, you know, technology and all that kind of stuff. Don't for a second think that just because you know that and somebody that's been there 20, 30 years doesn't, 40 years doesn't know that piece, that they don't have something very, very valuable to give you. And the interesting thing is the kids that are coming in at 20, 25, even people that have like taken a little bit of time and get into a workforce in their late 20s, early 30s, they're looking at, if someone comes in and says, how do I do this? How would you handle that? I really noticed some detail and I want to ask

you about it because you have experience and expertise. You're talking about like, you're springboarding right up that corporate ladder or right up that small business ladder, whatever, you know, whatever you're getting in. Curiosity is just a wonderful, wonderful trait that we lack as a culture. Agreed. Agreed. And I also think too, as a young person coming up the corporate ladder, there were certain situations and certain times where I hadn't experienced anything like that before, like going to my first really fancy dinner with, you know, my leadership team and not being all that comfortable about how to order wine or, you know, what to order on the menu. You know, I think my mom did a really good job in basic etiquette or

basic manners where it was like, okay, I'm not going to order the most expensive thing on the menu and be a jerk. And I'm not going to order anything where I have the potential of wearing it at the end of the night or broccoli in the teeth or just being mindful full of about things like that. But I don't know. I feel like those moments can feel a little bit more loaded than most because it's correlated to your career success and relationships and how people perceive you. When I go to a wedding, I do want to be a good guest, but nine times out of 10, if somebody doesn't perceive me well, it doesn't matter because I'm never going to see them again. Whereas at work, I feel like there's a little bit of an extra pressure because the powers

that be are around. So let me close out by asking one thing that wouldn't exist in the old etiquette books. And I don't even know if there is etiquette, but there certainly should be more emotional intelligence and basic manners happening in this space. What about social media? You know, what's funny is I tell people, and I've told myself this yet, and this goes social media, this is anything electronic. This is texting. This is emailing back to somebody reactivity is your worst enemy like do not be emotionally reactive you've got to we used to what we were doing on social media you and I used

to do with our friends by the pool venting and we get it all out of our system and then you go back and then you sort of handle things in a different way and you don't have the whole world seeing everything that you said because half the stuff that flew out of your mouth was unreasonable. It was just your perspective and you were emotional and you get that. That's fine. But to do it online for everybody to screenshot and save or see, and then you edit later, but they still saw it, even if they didn't screenshot it, it was there. You know, just emoting online is a big, if we could just, you know, if we could just get that into people, that would be helpful. The reactivity, you know, and keep it, it can be used for a positive in so many ways. So use it for that and just don't use it for the negative stuff. Yeah. Well said. There are probably a lot of things, but if you can just

capture that, don't share all of your emotions as you feel them on social media, I think that would be a really wonderful place to start. Heather, thank you. And I know people probably want to learn more and have more questions. So go to bellinvito.com and you can also find Bell & Vito on Instagram and you can find the amazing products and invitations and also some etiquette education there. Heather, thank you so much for your time and your expertise. Thank you, Nicole. I really appreciate it. Okay. When you respect yourself, it shows up in confidence, healthy boundaries, self-care, and sound decision-making, just to name a few things. When you respect others, it shows up in good manners, thoughtful action, and simple kindness. Basic etiquette is how you demonstrate that respect and awareness of others.

And that, my friend, is timeless. So while you're out there doing whatever version of woman's work feels true for you, remember to mind your manners and remember this old quote, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Let's throw out what no longer works for us, but make sure to bring forward the things that do. As an example, I'm going to update that quote for us a little bit. I'm going to keep what I like and throw out the rest. And it looks like this. If you don't have anything kind to say, and if you're not coming from a place of care or love, well then shut the fuck up.

Because that is woman's work.