This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Healthier Sex, Not Hotter Sex: Reclaiming Desire, Pleasure & Connection with Dr. Nicole McNichols | 384

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Talking about sex shouldn’t feel like a performance review you didn’t prepare for — and yet, for so many women, it does. In this episode of This Is Woman’s Work, Nicole Kalil gets publicly uncomfortable (on purpose) to talk about what we’re really craving when it comes to sex — not hotter, not louder, not more performative… but healthier. Joined by internationally renowned human sexuality professor and author Dr. Nicole McNichols, this conversation cuts through cultural noise, outdated scripts, and unrealistic expectations around women’s desire. Together, they unpack why exhaustion, mental overload, hormonal shifts, and decades of conditioning disconnect women from their bodies — and how to rebuild a sex life rooted in honesty, agency, and pleasure. This episode isn’t about doing more or trying harder. It’s about unlearning shame, understanding your body, honoring your evolving needs, and creating a roadmap for sex that works for you — at every stage of life. What We Cover: Why “hotter sex” is the wrong goal — and what healthier sex actually looks like The mental load, exhaustion, and emotional labor killing desire (and what to do about it) Dr. McNichols’ Hierarchy of Sexual Needs and why pleasure starts internally Getting out of your head and back into your body (hello, sexual mindfulness) Mismatched libidos, desire discrepancies, and how to stop making them mean something’s wrong When curiosity, communication, and consent unlock deeper connection Healthy sex isn’t about performance, frequency, or checking boxes — it’s about presence, permission, and pleasure that evolves with you. When women reclaim agency over their bodies and desires, connection deepens, shame loosens its grip, and intimacy becomes something we get to experience — not something we’re expected to perform. Thank you to our sponsors! Sex is a skill. Beducated is where you learn it. Visit https://beducate.me/bg2602-womanswork and use code womanswork for 50% off the annual pass. Connect with Dr. Nicole McNichols: Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/You-Could-Be-Having-Better-Sex/Nicole-McNichols/9781668053775  IG: https://www.instagram.com/nicole_thesexprofessor/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicole_thesexprofessor Related Podcast Episodes: Access, Agency & The Abortion Underground with Rebecca Grant | 358  051 / Connecting To Your Sexuality with Aylen Doucette How To Listen When Your Parts Speak (IFS Therapy + Ancestral Wisdom) with Tamala Floyd | 376 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review:Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If this show adds something to your life, I'm asking for your help so it finds its way to the next woman who needs it. The three best ways to do that, rate, share, and support the sponsors. I am Nicole Callill and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today, which, of course, requires confidence, curiosity, and a willingness to get uncomfortable. And today is one of those days where I'm getting uncomfortable in public because our topic is how we can all have better sex. And if your immediate reaction was a mix of intrigue and discomfort, interest and a sudden urge to clean out your junk drawer in avoidance, congratulations, you're in good company.

Because for so many of us, sex can sometimes feel like just one more thing in the endless list of things we're supposed to be good at, available for, excited about, and doing, and I put in air quote, right. As if our bodies, these changing, aging, paramenopausal, postmenopausal, in so many cases, childbearing, ambition-carrying bodies aren't already juggling enough. We're out here managing careers, caretaking, calendars, and sometimes crisis. And somewhere on page 47 of our never-ending to-do list is reconnect with sexual self, feel and look sexy, initiate more, and don't forget it's supposed to be hot. I'm sorry, but my brain and body shuts down right about here. And listen, if you're having super hot sex all the time, I am truly happy for you, sincerely, but I'm going to be straight with you. What I'm interested in,

what I suspect many of us are craving, is not as much hotter sex as the world defines it, but healthier sex as we define it. Because how many of us have an unhealthy disconnected or just plain confused relationship with our own bodies? How many of us were told or sold to prioritize someone else's pleasure over our own? How many of us are navigating shifting hormones, shifting desires, shifting identities, while nobody gave us the updated manual. Friend, the louder culture screams about hotter, the more I find myself asking, okay, but can we start with honest, with connected, with actually knowing what we want instead of what we've been taught to give?

Which brings us to today's conversation and the questions that I've been wrestling with. Is my desire to focus on healthier versus hotter sex about the sex itself or about decades of conditioning and expectations that I'm still trying to unlearn? And when I get uncomfortable talking about sex, is that a boundary I'm honoring? or a place that I still get to heal. I'm not sure, but we're going to explore this topic through the lens of women's lived experiences, the exhaustion, the evolving bodies, the mismatch libidos, the pressure to perform,

the desire to reconnect with ourselves. And maybe for the first time in years, we're going to have this conversation. So thankfully, we have someone extraordinary to guide us. Dr. Nicole McNichols is an internationally renowned, human sexuality professor, author, speaker, and the force behind the diversity of the... God, I can't talk today, friend. No, my name alone is a lot.

Yeah. I don't know what my deal is, and I usually can talk, but apparently not today. Again, the discomfort is coming through. Okay. You're great. The force behind the diversity of human sexuality, the most popular course in the history of the University of Washington, enrolling over 4,000 students every year. You may know her from Psychology Today, the Seattle Times, her TEDx talk, or her accessible, shame-free

approach to pleasure, desire, arousal, and the full spectrum of human sexuality. She is also the author of the new book, You Could Be Having Better Sex, the Definitive Guide to a Happier, Healthy, and Hotter Sex Life. Nicole, welcome to the show, and I hope you're still happy to be here after I said all of that. Nicole, that was beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I want to start by asking you just your thoughts or reactions in my opening conversation

and where you feel, the way I'm kind of framing it is thinking about this first and foremost internally and like how to have a healthier relationship within ourselves with our bodies and sex. And then that might lead us to hotter and external things. What are your thoughts? Well, that is exactly right, Nicole. And I loved your opening comments because it really speaks to what I think so many women today are struggling with when it comes to having better sex and feeling connected to our bodies, which is the sense that we, on the one hand, are getting all of these messages from the culture around us, from the media around us about what hot, amazing, thrilling sex looks like that's throwing at us all of these different types of myths and ideas. and scripts that aren't really about female pleasure

and that aren't really about advocating for this sense of connection to your body and to your mind. And to your point, this is why in my book, I introduced my McNichols hierarchy of sexual needs because we can't just expect ourselves to go try out that amazing sex scene that might have been beautifully orchestrated on Netflix

or walk into that sex shop that we've been taught we should feel empowered to go into and buy the handcuffs and take it home and have hot sex. That's not the formula, right? So many people want to feel connected to themselves, want to be having better sex, but they need a roadmap. And so my McNichols hierarchy of sexual needs is really a roadmap that brings you there. And it takes you through the layers of feeling a sense of connection to your body, unlocking what I call your erotic space, your mental erotic space by leveraging your pleasure cycle. and then getting into the social emotional needs of communication and carving out the types of

relational contacts that work for you. In other words, are you in a 20-year relationship? And if so, what does the science say is the secret to having a hot sex life in a long-term monogamous relationship? Or are you navigating casual sex and dating? And what is the research really say about how to have a connected experience versus one that's going to leave you feeling really? empty. And then from there, launch into all of these curiosity-driven, amazing explorations that might have to do with exploring your fantasies and your kings. But the key point is we can't expect ourselves to simply come home one night, throw on the handcuffs, and have better sex. We need to start from a foundation of honoring ourselves, our bodies, our minds, and then

building through there to the communication and to the exploration level. Okay. So I'm so on board with this. And I want to talk about the roadmap or the formula. But before I do, I'd love to ask, what do you see that might be nuanced or different that is blocking, getting in the way of preventing women from having the sex life they want and deserve or from even going down this roadmap? Well, first, let's talk about things that have helped, right, which is definitely a focus on pleasure. I think most people know that penetrative sex is not the way that most women reach orgasm. Only 18% of women can have an orgasm without clitoral stimulation. So hooray, we all understand that we need to be paying attention to the types of techniques, which I get into, that bring pleasure. We've also made huge

advancements with menopause and perimenopause and an awareness of the incredible, you know, unbelievable effect that that can have on your sex drive. I mean, I myself am on hormone replacement therapy. It is a game changer. But here's what, yeah, it's amazing. I recommend it for everyone. But the biological realm is not the only place we need to be addressing if we want to improve our sex lives because women today, and I can speak to this very personally, because I have three kids, two needy dogs, a husband, a very full-time job. Women are exhausted, right? I mean, we have so much that we are trying to manage and juggle, just the emotional labor alone of trying to remember the dentist appointments, what, you know, we need to do for our job, what, what project is

do next week, what we need to do for the kids' school, right? When we're going to plan that vacation, whatever it is that we are in charge of managing, right? What new data is really showing, right? And I'm a little bit of a data geek. So I love when studies look at this. But when you plug in these variables of, okay, when we interview thousands and thousands and thousands of women about what's getting in the way of them when they are trying to have better sex. And yes, the hormonal impact is real and that should be addressed, but so are all of these psychological and relational factors, right? And so much of what might be more effective or just as effective, just as important, that deserves equal weight as, you know, HRT or whatever other biological,

wonderful things you're doing to help yourself is an acknowledgement that this level of exhaustion, it needs to be managed if we're going to be connecting to ourselves because we make this mistake where we assume that sex takes place in this own small sphere that doesn't impact the rest of our life, that it is just something that happens with our partner and it is not really relevant or drawing from anything else in our lives. And that's simply not true, right? The energy and pleasure that you are cultivating and feeling in the rest of your life is, of course, going to come into your sex life. And if you think about, you know, even, you know, this idea of the pleasure cycle, which I really think is so misunderstood, if you're going to be enjoying

something like sex, it's not just about the experience feeling good in the moment. It's about that level of anticipation and wanting. And I think that that's really what so many women are struggling with because this exhaustion and overwhelm is getting in the way. And so how do you really dig into finding a way around to dig yourself out of that exhaustion and overwhelm and feel like you have permission to pursue the sex life that you really want and deserve? So this kept popping in my head. So I'm just going to honor it. I don't know if it totally ties with what you're saying, but I found for myself, and I have to, imagine this is true for a lot of women is one of the bigger challenges is getting out of my head.

Yes. And when I was in my 20s, it was more about like, oh my gosh, how do I look in this position? Or can he see this roll of fat or whatever? Like it was in my head with a negative body. But as I've gotten older, I'm in my head for different reasons. It's the to-do list. Did I pick up the dry cleaning? Yes. How much time do we have? I'm so tired. It's, you know, and yes, the exhaustion, but I wonder if this is a common thing where it's disconnected from our bodies because we're so up in our heads about sex when it's happening, when it should be happening, when it's not happening. Any thoughts or reactions there? Yes, this is so common that Masters and Johnson in the 1960s who brought subjects into their lab, hooked them up with electrodes, measured all

of their thoughts and feelings and bodily reactions during sex itself. Found that people reported so commonly, and you're right, with younger people, it's often about body image issues. But with older people, it often gets into these what we call non-erotic thoughts, which is everything you're describing. Did I unload the dishwasher? Did I leave the coffee maker on? My endless to-do list.

And that's why I think what we really need to understand is, you know, a reframing of what it means to plan pleasure into our lives because we cannot expect ourselves to go from, you know, I mean, I know the advice of plan sex is something that a lot of people hear. And the way that that's interpreted is, okay, so just, you know, midway through emptying the dishwasher, I'm going to go jump into bed and have sex, right? Set the alarm, have absolutely no lead up. And that is not an effective. way to plan intimacy into your life. What you really need to be doing is thinking about, okay, how can I lead myself and give myself space and permission to enter into a mindset at a particular time,

but yes, I have planned ahead with my partner so that I know that, you know, that email that I needed to send is already sent earlier in the day, that I've turned off my laptop earlier and done whatever it is that I need to do to reconnect to my body, whether it is, you know, listening to music, taking a bath, getting a massage, you know, there's so much data showing that, you know, couples who enjoy passionate relationships who have a lot of sex really set the mood, right? And setting the mood is what takes that intention and planning. So it's not that you're just going to, you know, stop from the. rest of your life and jump right into sex because I think that's when we're usually the most susceptible

to those different types of thoughts that can get in the way of our being able to enjoy pleasure, right? We tend to be more in the mood and more able to relax and drop into our body when we are planning for that intimacy, carving out that time with our partner, not in a way that invites a contract, right? I mean, we, not where there's no ability to say no in the moment if something happens, but just where you're prioritizing each other and giving yourself that space where you're going to, you know, do whatever it is that makes you feel you're sexiest. And then on top of that, I really encourage women to really think about, you know, there's so much research from a really brilliant researcher named Dr. Lori Brato. She's at the University of British Columbia. And her work

on sexual mindfulness has been just an incredibly powerful technique that many women have found that can be, you know, it's really no different than other types of mindfulness where, you know, you're kind of focusing on your breath, you're focusing on the sensations in your body, you're focusing on the sexual cues of your partner, you're allowing those to be your guide during sex, you're noticing those thoughts, right? You're noticing non-erotic thoughts. You're like, okay, there I go again, thinking about the dishwasher or the laundry, but, you know, or my job or the school auction, whatever it might be, but I'm noticing that thought and I'm going to let it pass out. Or I see myself making this judgment. I see it and I'm letting it pass away.

And so by constantly bringing during sex your attention back to your body, back to the sensations that you're feeling, you know, that's, you know, in her research shown to be an incredibly effective way of coping for people who have different types of sexual dysfunction and different types of of trauma in their past history, but it's also just the best way to have better sex, right? When you're bringing yourself back into the present, that is what's going to maximize pleasure. Because if there's one thing we know from all of the data, you know, there's this very famous researcher, Daniel Gilbert at Harvard University. And my initial background before, you know, I didn't grow up dreaming and becoming a sex professor. My PhD is in social psychology. I believe it or not, began wanting to solve the loneliness epidemic. But his research, he's a social psychologist,

shows that we are the happiest when we are present. In other words, in a title of one of his most famous papers, a wandering mind is an unhappy mind. And nothing is truer when it comes to sex, when we can be present. And so it's just cultivating a practice of being able to bring yourself back to your body, back to the sensations that are happening so that you're paying attention to what pleasure feels like to you and not what you're seeing in a script or as an obligation with that planning piece so that you can enter that emotional, erotic space that you've cultivated and given priority to rather than just expecting it to fall from the sky. Here's my hot take.

What if we all gave the finger to resolutions about losing weight and focused instead on gaining pleasure? This year, instead of another resolution that quietly dies by mid-January, more women are choosing something different. They're having better sex. Beducated is an online platform with over 150 courses on sex and intimacy designed to help women explore pleasure in a safe, private space at their own pace from the comfort of their own beddivet. bedroom. And you don't have to guess where to start. You take their quiz and get a personalized roadmap to sexual happiness. No pressure, no performance, no shame. So if you're done with resolutions that make you feel smaller, try one that actually expands your life and relationships. Click the link in show notes to kick off your journey by taking the quiz. Get your personalized

roadmap to sexual happiness with Beducated. Sounds like solid advice for life too. I mean, the amount of judgments that pop up and if we can be in observation or more neutral about them versus getting, like, it just seems like good advice all around. Anyway, I can't, you know, move forward without talking more about the McNichols roadmap. Yes. Where do we start? I know we won't have time to dive deep into every step of it, but can you give us sort of a general overview and maybe dive into a couple points that might be? Yeah, absolutely. So it starts with. It starts with. And, First of all, one of the most common questions I get is, should I even bother, right? Which is the question of, okay, why, you know, I have so much on my to-do list, should sex really be

prioritized? And the answer to that is yes, we do have solid data showing that sexual satisfaction, when you look at longitudinal data, does lead to greater well-being, greater relationship satisfaction. So beginning by making the decision that you could be having better sex and you deserve to be having better sex and you can be having better sex. And so we enter into the roadmap with that frame of mind. And I begin with your physical needs, right? That is the foundation of my pyramid because if you understand your body and you understand your particular pleasure zones and in my book I get into, believe it or not, we have studies looking at tens of thousands of women of the most effective techniques, touch, and I'm talking really intimate things from pattern, pressure,

all of these different techniques that can be really used and leveraged and learn to unlock pleasure within your own body because it really begins with feeling pleasure in your body and knowing how your own body works because the reality, Nicole, is nobody craves sex that's not pleasurable. And if we're going to be able to unlock how we communicate to our partner, what feels good, and what kinds of fantasies we want to entertain, we first need to know how our own particular body works within this whole spectrum of pleasure diversity that exists, right? People's bodies are very different. Not everyone's responds the same. So I begin with that acknowledgement. Then I like to get into this idea of reclaiming your mental erotic space,

which really ties into the sexual mindfulness piece. And then I really get into this idea of, okay, you've connected to your body. You've learned how to inhabit your mind in a way where you have a sense of freedom where sex is not becoming something that's obligatory, but more of a path towards pleasure and connection to yourself and something that you know you feel entitled to. And then, Right? Only once we have connection to our bodies and are able to understand how our carve out that space in our mind for sex, then do we begin to negotiate how we pick out the context. And that context might be understanding, okay, what are the research-backed tools for livening up sex in a long-term relationship, which is very possible. There are so many myths out there that get in the way where women assume, for example, that, in order to have a hot sex life, you have to have tons of novelty and lots of mystery, that mystery is the secret to desire, right? Not true.

Not at all backed by the research. We can get into that. Or that any kind of casual sex experience is automatically going to be horrible and bad. Again, I'm just driven by what the research says. Emotional outcomes to casual sex are much more varied than people think. There are some variables that do predict when they're going to be better versus when they're going to lead to distress. So understanding those, because all of this allows you to be really intentional in how you're creating the relationships that are going to lead you to be able to speak up for your

needs and communicate what feels good to you. And then we get into this third piece, this evolution piece. And this is where we really need to be understanding that we are fluid, we are changing, right? Our sexual needs, our wants, our desires, they change over time. and that we need to be leaning into curiosity, whether it means exploring something along the kink continuum, right? Or if it means understanding that your sexual fantasies are normal and there are ways to, in a very healthy way, leverage them to bring some heat to your sex life. Or understanding the nuances of your sexuality, right? Which we now understand encompasses so much more than just being gay or straight, right? that there are really interesting aspects there that can be uncovered.

So I'm really just trying again to provide this step-by-step roadmap for people who are like, well, I want better sex, but where do I even begin? And I'm just hoping that can bring people that information. So I want to dive a little deeper into this evolution part because it could not be more true. I mean, our lives are changing, our bodies are changing, our hormones are changing, our needs are changing. Like it's just this, and you mentioned earlier pleasure cycles. Can we dive a little bit more?

Yes. What does that mean look and feel like? Okay. So let's talk about pleasure cycles. Let's start with Nicole. What is your favorite thing to eat for dinner? Anything with cheese. Anything with cheese.

Okay. Pizza. Yeah. Pizza. I love pizza. Let's start with pizza. Okay. When you eat pizza, your enjoyment of that pizza is,

not just a function of when you bite into the pizza and taste the cheese and that gooiness and that deliciousness and that comfort, right? That's what we sort of think of when we imagine pleasure, right? But there's also that anticipation, right? Like, oh, tonight, I can't wait to have pizza, right? Or pizza sounds amazing. I am salivating over pizza tonight, right? And then there's also sort of the after effect, right? The place where you're like, oh, that was so good. I feel so satisfied right now. And the revision of, okay, well, maybe next time in my pizza, I want to try pepperoni, right? Or peppers, right? So the point here is that if we really want to relish the pleasure that we derive from something like pizza or sex, we need to understand that at a neurological level,

Pleasure involves three phases. There's the wanting phase, the liking phase, and the learning phase. And we happen to be very bad at really embracing that, right? We tend to think like, oh, I'm just going to like whatever everybody else tells me I'm going to like. You know, again, there's this, you know, so much research showing that we in general are terrible at predicting exactly what will bring us pleasure. That's again where this mindfulness piece comes in because, yes, you want to anticipate, you want to build excitement, right? Because it's like the best part of Christmas. It's the night before when we're really looking forward to it, right? It's that excitement, if you remember, as a kid, right? It's not when you're actually like sitting there with, you know, opening the presents. That's exciting too, but it's usually that anticipation. That's the best part. And so leaning into that, right, cultivating space for that, that's where like that planning comes into place because think about it, we plan other things in our lives

that we love, whether it's a vacation or a massage or even something simple like a foot rub or getting our nail, you know, whatever it is that brings you pleasure. And if we're not opening up space for that wanting, right, we're not going to then invite the liking and the learning. And the learning phase is also really important, right? Thinking, okay, what when I was eating the pizza? Wink, wink, tasted particularly good, right? What during that night of sex that I had with my partner really felt good? What do I want to try more of? What, you know, if I'm really leaning and I always encourage people to lean into the positive of what was working, that is your foundation for launching that curiosity piece. What really felt great, right? Not what did Netflix or porn tell me was supposed to

feel great, not what I'm being told by, you know, the sex positivity movement is meant to tell me to, you know, to feel great. But like, what really felt great, right? What really felt great. And then revising, right? And that's where that evolution piece comes in because when we're learning about what feels good to our bodies, what makes us feel connected to our partner, whoever they are, What makes us understand the emotional mind state that works best for us in a sexual experience? And we're revising. We're allowing that room for growth and we're really being driven by curiosity. Okay.

So my next question is when we might not be eating pizza alone, what do we do if the other person isn't craving pizza or doesn't like pizza? When we're talking about whether it's a one-night stand or a 30-plus-year relationship, how do we navigate when we might not be on the same page or mismatch libidos or, I mean, all the things, when it involves coordinating two people? So first of all, I want everyone, all of us, to just take a deep collective breath because sexual desire discrepancy, first of all, is the number one reason that couples and up in therapy together. And two, or in at least in sex therapy together, and number two, right, that even in couples that wouldn't really say, oh, we have a huge issue, there's some level of sexual desire discrepancy in every single relationship. And that's okay, right? So there are a number

of strategies that I recommend in these situations. And it really depends on the sort of severity of the difference. And the way that you. address whether it's that they want sex three times a week and you want it once every other week versus they want to try tying you up and that sounds horrifying to you. These strategies apply. And so the first, right, is to simply acknowledge that discrepancies happen and that the tools sometimes are as easy as just sitting down. I recommend that you not have this conversation when you have your clothes off, do this on your comfy couch at a time when you are clothed and not feeling as vulnerable as if you've just had or about to have sex, right? And you want to, you know,

it could be as easy as saying, could we start to put it on the calendar in a way that's essentially a compromise, right? Maybe one person really only wants it once every other week, the other person wants it three times a week. Maybe you could compromise at once a week. Because sometimes, what the person with lower desire needs is just simply an awareness that planning it could help them to get into the mood more, right? And sometimes with the person who, and help from their partner, right, learning how to initiate in a way and build up anticipation for that night where they've really put it on the calendar. And the person with the higher desire, sometimes they just also need to hear feel like they're being heard and seen invalidated.

and that they really like sex with their partner, right, and that they want that connection, right? Now, sometimes it's not going to be as easy, of course, as saying, okay, right, let's compromise on once a week and aim for that. Sometimes there's going to be, you know, more of a difference. And, you know, in those situations, you, again, it's rarely the sex itself that's making us dig our heels in. It's almost always the meaning behind it, right?

And so if you start with, you know, the person that has the super high sex drive, is that about the reflection of a need for just sexual release, right? Is it that you just feel like you can't relax if you're not having sex multiple times a week or every day? If it's just about the sexual release, let's please normalize masturbation, right? There is nothing wrong with masturbation in a relationship. In fact, significant data shows that people in relationships who masturbate have more desire, have healthier sex than couples who don't, right? Masturbation is not a replacement for a partner. It is something that only enhances sex. And so maybe the partner who wants sex at a super high frequency can just masturbate a little bit, right? At the same time, right, it might be that

the partner who wants sex a whole lot is really just seeking connection, right? They miss you. They want to feel like they are connected to you, right? And sometimes for some people, you know, and I think this is true, particularly for men who are not exactly told or taught or encouraged to be honest about their need for emotional connection and to be able to share their feelings. Sex might be the one way that they feel comfortable doing that, right? And so maybe it's about understanding that that need for high desire. it's not about a need for just release. It's really about wanting to feel seen and heard and validated by you. And so in that case, maybe that doesn't need to always look like a sexual experience, right? Maybe there are other things that you can do together where you're connected and seeing each other and feeling like you're really, you know, having close time together as a couple. And then beyond that, right, there could be relational dynamics. There could be, you know, this, you know,

as we talked about with women, if you're just feeling tapped out and exhausted, I mean, I remember when I had really young kids, right? Just, I was really into, you know, being the absolute best mother that I could. And I was, you know, breastfeeding can take a hot minute to get used to. And I was not good at limiting my kids to just, you know, breastfeeding for 15 minutes at a time. It was like these 45-minute marathons where they fall asleep and you have to wait in. You know, you can. You get into bed at the end of the night and you've been breastfeeding all day. And you're just, your partner, you know, and I think so many women have a sense of guilt about this, but it's like, you just feel like, oh my God, it's like one more person's physical needs to fulfill, right?

And so it can just, and I remember just feeling so guilty and horrible about that, but it just was true. And what really sort of moved me beyond that was realizing that, you know, this wasn't just about fulfilling another person's needs. It was about. needing to feel supported in other areas of my life so that that division of work and responsibility was more evenly distributed so there could be less of a load on me and more of my sort of, you know, energy freed up to be able to connect with my husband in a way that felt like it was about me and my pleasure just as much as it was about his. So again, it's about getting to the needs underneath this, I think, and really understanding what's at play. It's not just

about the physical experience of sex, right? Sex is a relational, emotional, spiritual, intellectual, experience. And I think if we can honor that, we can really help ourselves. My last question, and I have a thousand, so I'm just kind of try to narrow it down to one. In addition to your book, which, again, everybody should get their hands on. It's called you could be having better sex. But in addition to resources like your book, whether we're talking individually or with our partner or someone else, when do we sort of navigate and explore on our own? And when does it make sense to go to a sex therapist or bring in some additional resource? I guess my question is, like, how do we know when we might need help? Well, I don't think it is ever a mistake to go to

therapy or see a counselor or go to a sex therapist, no matter what, even if you know, even if you have an amazing relationship, that's only going to make it better, right? Having someone who has the tools and the skills and where you're really setting time apart to work on your relationship, that's always a good thing. But I would say the biggest mistake I think that couples make is waiting too long, right? Waiting until there's really a problem that has just bred so much resentment and digging in of heels that there's just such a wall to break through. So I, I would say early and often when it comes to therapy. And, you know, and of course, especially if you're having trouble just navigating through

these things and feel yourself, you know, looping. Like I would look for that looping back to, well, I need this and you do this. If you've hit a wall, please go to therapy and don't wait. Go early. Great advice. Nicole, thank you for being here today for having these important conversations and for speaking out loud things that feel uncomfortable. to so many of us. Maybe not for you, but for so many of us. You, the listener, I want to make sure you get

your hands on her book. You could be having better sex. And you can also follow Nicole on Instagram and TikTok at Nicole, the sex professor. We're going to put all the links and all the ways to find and follow Nicole in show notes. Thank you. Thank you, Nicole. This was wonderful. My pleasure. Okay, friend, here's the deal. We can't unlearn in silence. We can't relearn in shame. We grow by being supported, not scrutinized, by being witnessed, not judged, by recognizing that our desires, our boundaries, our comfort, and our pleasure are not only allowed, they're essential. And just like with everything else on this is woman's work, there is no one-size-fits-all version of a healthy sex life. There is no gold star for performance, no universal definition of hotter, no script that

you're supposed to follow. There is only what feels true and real and right for you. You, are the decider of your sexual self the same way you're the decider of your work, your worth, your relationships, and your life. Not the culture, not the algorithms, not the expectations you inherited. You. And maybe that's the real invitation to create a relationship with your body and your pleasure that belongs to you. To speak what needs to be spoken, to learn what you were never taught, and to build something healthier so that if you choose the hotter part, it becomes available too. Because honest conversation, shared wisdom, and women supporting each other as we reclaim pleasure?

Well, that is woman's work.