This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - How To Chase Your Dream with Broadway's Mandy Gonzalez | 281

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

We all have dreams—those aspirations that ignite our souls and push us toward greatness. Whether it's a childhood ambition or a newfound passion, the journey to achieving our dreams is filled with challenges, triumphs, and invaluable lessons. In this episode, we delve into the art of chasing big dreams and how to navigate the path to success. Our guest, Mandy Gonzalez, embodies the spirit of fearless pursuit. At 19, she left college to sing backup for Bette Midler, marking the beginning of an illustrious career. Mandy's Broadway debut was in Aida, and she went on to originate the role of Nina Rosario in Lin-Manuel Miranda's In the Heights, earning a Drama Desk Award. She captivated audiences as Elphaba in Wicked and portrayed Angelica Schuyler in the megahit Hamilton for six years. Beyond the stage, Mandy has appeared in TV shows like Madam Secretary, Bull, Quantico, and Only Murders in the Building. She's also the author of the Fearless young adult book series and the founder of the social media movement #FearlessSquad, promoting inclusivity and empowerment. In this episode, Mandy shares her journey, the obstacles she overcame, and the mindset that propelled her forward. She emphasizes the importance of taking risks, embracing failures as learning opportunities, and staying true to oneself. Connect with Our Guest: Mandy Gonzalez Website: https://mandygonzalez.com/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/mandy.gonzalez/  Related Podcast Episodes: Holler At Your Dreams with Judi Holler | 211 How To Build Courage with Dr. Margie Warrell | 273 7 Keys To Unlock Your Dynamic Drive with Molly Fletcher | 229 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music

Hi, I'm Nicole Kalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means, what it looks and what it feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And if you've been tuning in regularly, you've probably noticed that we're doing a lot of these how-to episodes lately. And that's because while I love a good motivational pep talk as much as the next person,

what really gets me excited is tactical, actionable advice. You know, the stuff you can actually do something with, the steps that bridge the gap between wishing and doing. And we've covered things that may seem basic, like how to breathe, or things that may seem daunting, like how to write a book, and things we can all benefit from, like how to build courage. And today, our topic is how to chase your dream. Because you have them.

I know you do. Maybe it's that one dream you've had since you were a kid, that thing you've always wanted to do, or maybe it's a dozen dreams that you've collected along the way, or even one that you're not entirely sure about yet. But if you want it, I want you to go after it. And today's episode is all about how to do just that.

Now, you know I'm not a big fan of rattling off resumes when I introduce a guest, but I'm making an exception today. Why? Because I think it illustrates the point that our guest has not only chased and accomplished a very big dream, but is continuing to chase them.

And I'm guessing there's far more to the story than just the highlights that I'm gonna read here, but let's take a minute to acknowledge and celebrate some of these amazing accomplished dreams. Our guest is Mandy Gonzalez, who left college at 19 to sing backup for Bette Midler and has become an accomplished film, TV, and stage actor and author. Her first role on Broadway was an aida, and then she brought her talent to Lin-Manuel Miranda's In the Heights where she originated the role of Nina Rosario in the Tony Award winning Broadway musical and also snagged a Drama Desk Award for herself.

Before soaring as Elphaba in Wicked and then leaving an indelible mark in the mega hit Hamilton where she starred as Angelica Schuyler for six years. She's also showed up on your TV in shows like, Madam Secretary, which is one of my favorites, Bull, Quantico, and Only Murders in the Building, as well as film as the voice in Disney's Mulan II, and has performed at Carnegie Hall

and with major symphonies worldwide. And somewhere in there found the time to champion hashtag Fearless Squad, a social media movement for inclusivity, and authored a hit young adult book series called Fearless. If you're wondering how someone does all of that and still has time to chase new dreams, then you're in the right place.

So let's go. Mandy, thank you for being our guest. And I want to start by asking you a bit about your journey because I think people often feel like it's easy for some people. Like Bette Midler just happened to see you singing at a coffee shop and invited you on her tour and then introduced you to Lin-Manuel Miranda and the rest is history, right? And I don't think it actually ever happens that way. So talk to us a little bit about your experience and maybe some of the ups and downs of chasing your dream of being on Broadway. Absolutely, Nicole. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, it's definitely not easy and it definitely never stops. I remember one time I was going to this audition in New York and I saw one of my friends who's one time I was going to this audition in New York and I saw one of my friends who's a very award acclaimed, Tony Award acclaimed actress. She has been nominated three times, she's won once. And I saw her also on the same street. And so I said, hey, what are you doing? She goes, oh, I'm going to an audition.

And I just said, really? Like, you know, and it just, just was that reminder of it never stops. You never have to, nobody ever just, sometimes you get offered the job. Like, look, sometimes that happens, but a lot of times it doesn't and you have to go for it and you have to put yourself out there. You have to face a lot of rejection. But there's just something inside of you that says yes, and that you can do it, and kind of propels you forward. When I first moved to New York

after I did the tour with Bette Midler, my mom gave me a book and it had a Pablo Neruda poem and translated it said, a traveler there is no trail, the path is made by walking. And that really resonated with me because so much of my life has been watching other people, like the beginning of my life. At 19, 20, you feel like, oh my gosh, I've lived so much life. And now that I'm 46, you realize like, wow, I had so much to learn and I knew nothing, you know, nothing really except that I wanted certain things. But when I was a kid, you know, I loved to sing all the time. And I had a grandmother

who loved show tunes. And I was the only grandchild that really sang back with her for those show tunes. She loved torch singers like Judy Garland, Edie Gordon-May, and Ethel Merman. And she babysat us a lot. And she told my parents that Mandy has talent. And we have to figure out what to do because we have to get her into lessons because she's going to hurt herself. She's too loud. And little did she know that that loud voice would one day help me in my projection on Broadway and everywhere else. But it was really her seeing something

that was special in me and, and putting that out there that made me feel like so special and that I could do do anything. And she was really the one that went to, you know, in those days, there was no internet. And so she had to go to the paper and see where there were opportunities that I could perform at. And there was a dinner theater down the street from her house called the Showboat Dinner Theater. And we would go there because it had all you can eat pickles. And we had to take my brother and we both like

pickles, because we're a year apart. and my brother is not a performer at all. But he had to go with me to everything. And so we went and we saw Man of La Mancha there and my grandmother went up to Alonza after the performance and said, my granddaughter can sing and she needs lessons, do you teach? And she said, yes, I do. And that became my first singing teacher.

So I think that dream of performing and wanting to pursue this creative life for a living started with her and her encouragement of, well, you can do it. Every family gets together, I would sing. I would be, my grandmother would put me up there and say, Mandy sing, and everybody would have to sit down, including my brother, and listen to me.

So for some reason, it made me feel really, really special. And it wasn't until I was 15, you know, I had done a lot of, you know, different lessons, a lot of performing around town, because I'm from Los Angeles, with a group called Rock Theater. It was a performing group. But it wasn't until I was 15 that my singing teacher told me about a performing arts camp in Florida, where there were Broadway professionals that were teaching. And I went to that camp. And that's where I realized that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, because

all of a sudden you're no longer the best one in the room. You're with all these other kids that are the best ones in their community. And they all had so much information. All of them were deciding, well, I'm going to go to this school for college. I'm going to go to this school for college. I'm going to go here, here, here. So I thought I came back from that and I told my mom and I said, well, I guess I have to go to these schools

in order to get where I want to go. So I have to apply for these schools, apply for this school, apply for this school. And there were some schools that I just, I didn't get in. And there were some schools that I auditioned for that I got to the next step, but it was a school that was just way out of our league financially. And I couldn't even fathom thinking

about going to that school. And I remember thinking, well, that's it. You know, I didn't go to these schools that everybody else went to, so I'm not going to be able to do this. So, but there was still something in me, this fire that burnt. And so I said, well, I think what I'll do is I'll go to school, close, a school that had accepted me and that was close to home CalArts. And I went there for my first year, my only year of college and they didn't have a musical theater program. It was just theater, but that was really great for me. And, and I lived at home and I went to school and, and then somebody had called me through all my lessons through all the work

that I've done, you know, growing up, they called and said that there were was an open call to audition for Bette Midler. And I thought, well, that sounds kind of cool. And that's when it, you know, I said yes, and I waited in line with hundreds of people to have my five minutes in front of that creative team. And that's where it really started for me, that saying yes, but there are those moments why I say that Pablo Neruda thing,

because there are those moments where you think, well, I can't do it because of this and this and this and this. I meet so many people on a daily basis that will tell me that, like, I want to do this, but I'm already this age, or I'm doing this, but I have this responsibility, so I can't pursue that. And I just say to all of that, I really feel like there's no time like the present. And if you really want to do something, you just have to say yes, and go for it. And that's enough to start because it's hard enough

to just put yourself out there. And that's, that's enough. But that's a first step. It's about taking that first step towards your dream. And that doesn't mean that your dream is going to look exactly how you thought it was going to look. You know, when I moved to New York, I set a goal for myself and I said, I'm going to be on Broadway in six months. Like that was my goal. And I moved to New York and I lived in Brooklyn and I was going out for all these open calls. I bagged wealthy people's groceries in the mornings. And then at night I worked at a restaurant doing coat check. And during the day I went through the papers and I went to every open call that I fit into.

And at six months, I did not get a job on Broadway but I got a job off Broadway. And that job off Broadway completely changed my life because it was a show called Eli's Coming, and it was directed by Diane Paulus, and Judy Kuhn was in the cast, Anika Noni-Rose, who was also just starting, Wilson Jermaine Heredia, who I had loved from Rent,

and Ronel Bay, a famous jazz singer. And it completely changed my life because that's where a lot of people from the Broadway community, from the New York community came to the Vineyard Theater, this prestigious theater, to see that show. And from there, I got offered to be a standby for Princess Demiurys in Aida. And that was another moment where I had somebody tell me, like, you shouldn't be a standby.

The standby is like an understudy. But you're just there for this one part. You're kind of offstage the whole time. And they said, you shouldn't do that because that'll ruin your career. And, you know, that's, you'll never do anything else but that. So I thought about it. And I really wanted to do it because it sounded really cool. And I'd never done a Broadway show. And, and then I remember sitting with Judy Kuhn in the dressing room.

And she said, Well, I've been a standby. And this is a woman who was the original coset in Les Miserables. She's done beyond that, like everything. And I said yes. And that started my Broadway career. So it didn't start at the six months mark, but it definitely started soon after that. Okay, so I'm gonna pull out a handful of things that you said that I have found to be true

from most people that I know that have accomplished big things. And that is first, there's often somebody who sees something in us that we don't yet see ourselves or believe, whether that is a family member or a mentor or a coach or someone along the way, sees something in us. Then we have the opportunity and the challenge that we all face where you get serious about something and you're being put alongside other people who do what you want to do. That challenge can either motivate us or it can knock us out of the game altogether. Those people who succeed tend to be the ones that get motivated.

People are going to say no. In fact, you'll probably get a lot more nos than yeses. There are going to be people who don't see your dream and that doesn't change the fact that it's still your dream. Keep showing up. Opportunity creates opportunity. Like you were saying, because of the experiences, that's how somebody told you about the bet Midler opportunity.

Most people have some sort of work that supports the chase, whether it's bagging wealthy people's groceries or something like that. Most people do something that pays the bills while they're doing the chase. And then finally, this idea of trusting yourself over other people's opinions. Your path is your path. So whether it's being an understudy when somebody says you shouldn't be, or some version of that,

you kind of have to listen to people, but listen to yourself more than anything and anyone else. Because as you said, the path is made by walking, not by overthinking or all the other things. So that happens too, though. Yeah, of course. That's always like part of it, you know, the overthinking of it all and not catastrophizing and learning how to live in the moment. I mean, that's definitely for somebody like me with such an imagination, overthinking can definitely get you into trouble,

but if you accept it, it's just the thought. definitely get you into trouble, but if you accept it, it's just, it's just a thought. I want to talk about, you know, some of the failures and the knows and the obstacles and the challenges we'll all inevitably face when we're chasing a dream. I think sometimes we think those obstacles and challenges are going to be within the dream we're chasing, but sometimes they can be outside of it. The example that comes to mind knowing a little bit about your story is being diagnosed with breast cancer. That wasn't a challenge of somebody saying no to you in an audition or auditioning for the right parts or things like that.

That was something outside of your dream that impacted your dream. So how did you navigate the challenge of having breast cancer, going through chemotherapy while still showing up eight days a week to perform on stage with Hamilton? Yeah, it's definitely something I don't recommend for everybody. Yeah, it's definitely something I don't recommend for everybody or anybody. But for me, I think it really saved me during that time because it was something that cancer couldn't take. When I was diagnosed, I said, okay, well, cancer can be part of my life, but it can't be all of my life.

And I had so many people tell me that, well, you can't perform or you can't do this during that. You just have to sit and sometimes you can't. But I had a doctor, my oncologist who said that you can do it. I know you can do it. And I think there's something about the way that I grew up and the show must go on kind of mentality that I always knew that was familiar and really allowed me to to fight through that. And it wasn't until, you know, the pandemic happened that Broadway shut down. And then all I had to do was go to chemotherapy and get treatment and deal with my family and all of those kinds of things

that I realized how much I needed to stop. How much I needed to take a minute to figure out who I was now and the healing process of going through a cancer battle. You know, I wasn't prepared for any of it. And I remember how much when I was performing, how much it saved me to sing, because I always feel like singing is the closest that I, I come and I get to God because it just really allows me to feel free, you know, of everything, I don't I don't have to think about anything. It's just something that I it's such a gift that I've been given and

just something that I, it's such a gift that I've been given and to give to other people, it allowed me to let go of my worry about cancer, my worry about what could happen, talking about anxiety. I mean, it was deep. But then when I did have to stop because of pandemic, I learned so much about myself. I think we all learned so much about ourselves like during pandemic. And I finished my treatment. And then I looked at my husband and he said, Well, now what am I going to do? You know, I have to sing,

I have to do something that nobody was, you know, allowing you to come into the room or you couldn't work. It was just, it was so difficult. And so my husband and I put together in our back room, a whole set where I would do concerts online for people. We came up with those concerts, we met somebody that did that kind of thing online where they could put those concerts out to people. And I started to get hired. I started to put that out there that I was doing concerts, people started to come. And then I started to get hired by different companies who were no longer doing their retreats for their customers or this and that because of the pandemic.

So I think that I'm just that kind of personality. It doesn't matter what I'm going through. I need to create and I need to, uh, to do what I do. And I will find a way to do it, to express myself. And for me, when I'm doing that, that is when I feel most alive. Right. Yeah. I think that there's something to this idea when you have a big dream,

and there is all kinds of dreams, right? But when you have a dream that isn't so much something you want as it is who you are, you sort of can't not do it. Like the idea of not doing it is more painful than the rejection and the fear and the anxiety and all the things that come along with it. And you know, I think it's worth reiterating the sort of mentality that you have of the show must go on. Yeah. And you know, I have, I grew up with a dad who, you know, both my parents are great and amazing,

but my dad used to sing in a band when he was younger, and then he got drafted to Vietnam, and when he came back from the war, he decided that he wasn't going to sing anymore. I don't know that why, but that was it. And he sold his microphone. He sold his amps that he had from the band. But my father played music all the time in the house. Both my parents did. And he would play the drums on the steering wheel and introduced me to so much music. And the first time I heard him sing

was when he was gonna be reunited with his band from high school. They were going to do, you know, this reunion concert. I went and I heard him sing for the first time and I was like, oh my gosh, like he was so talented. And I couldn't imagine having to hold all that talent in and not be able to do it. So I think there's also something in that because I do come from very hard working people, you know, blue collar, and they've had to hold

their dreams to the side in order for us to survive. And I think that when I see those things, I go, well, I'm gonna give it all because I feel like they're with me and along for the ride. So I don't know who's saying before my father, but I knew that I wasn't going to keep it inside what I have to give.

And so I think that if you have that talent and you're thinking, well, I don't have the time, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I don't have this. We'll never know if you don't go for it. Totally. Okay, I am curious your thoughts on plan Bs. When we talk about chasing a dream,

should we have a plan B? Is there a place for that? Is that a discouragement or an out? Like what are your thoughts about having a plan B? I think you should never feel limited to be one thing in this life. And I, when I started, it was like, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a singer. I'm going to be on Broadway.

I'm going to be an actress. And that's what I'm going to do. And then as I've grown up, I go, well, I really like writing. I really like directing. I like doing this. There's no... To me, there's no such thing as a Plan B. It's just life.

And it's just another category of your life. You know, it's like your life is this big pie, and what you do is one part of it. This is another part of it. This is another part of it. And I think that it makes it so much so much better. You know, when I meet with young people and they tell me, well, my parents don't think I can make a living in the arts and so therefore they don't want me to go and study it. And I say, well, first off, I don't think that's fair. I think that if you encourage your kid to pursue the arts all through their life and then all of a sudden they want to do it for a

living and you go well no whoa whoa whoa now we don't support any of that. I think that um if that happens to you and you do have to study something else um find the choir in your college, find a class that you can take, find an out community theater like nearby, that might allow you that outlet to perform. So if you're facing that kind of roadblock, you just have to find other things to fill in the pie, you know, because you don't have to be one thing, you know, I want to make a certain amount of money in my life. And I want to make sure that that's taken care of before I pursue this other

dream that I have. Okay, that's cool. Take care of that. And then do that as well. Right. Your life doesn't have to be like black and white. Like there can be a gray. Yeah. And it's okay to feel like you want to live in that a little bit. Well, what I'm hearing, and I think it's just really good advice, is there are so many ways that we can share our gifts. And there are so many ways that we can chase our dreams. And so there is an element of,

and I think sometimes we get caught in this as we get really rigid about how sharing our gift or chasing our dream is supposed to look. Like it's the, I need to be on Broadway in six months or I'm done, right? Like as opposed to, I have a goal to be on Broadway in six months and there are so many ways to share my gifts and there's so many timelines that can get me there and there are so many ways to share my gifts and there's so many timelines that can get

me there and there's so many opportunities and so kind of that committed but open combination that can- Yeah, and there's so many ways to be creative these days. It's like you don't have to go on backstage and say, hey, I want to figure out how to, you know, I didn't have an agent when I moved to New York and everybody was like, Oh, go to New York without an agent, you'll never make it. And it was like, Well, okay. And I went anyway. And I, I followed my heart. And I think that's some of the best advice that I've been given is follow your gut, it will never lead you

astray. If something doesn't feel good to you, say no. If something feels really good, you'll always know that it was the right decision if you followed like your intuition. Even if it doesn't turn out great, at least you followed like what you thought. And that's part of it too. It's following your heart and letting go

of what other people think about you. Right, and the added benefit of when you do that, you build your own confidence. Because I am a firm believer that confidence is when you trust yourself firmly and boldly. And you're right, that doesn't mean that everything's gonna go perfectly or that there's gonna be,

but there's something in trusting your gut that is confidence building, which then carries into the next opportunity, the next, the next. And I firmly believe going into any and every opportunity as confident as you can be is a game changer. Also, fake it till you make it. Choose it until you become it. Choose confidence until the feeling catches up.

That's like my twist on fake it till you make it, but I'm with you. Because it's like, hey, some people ask me, what do you do? Like, I'm so nervous when I go on stage. I'm so nervous, putting myself out there for an audition or just signing up for something. And I just say, well, that's okay. It's okay to be nervous. I'm nervous all the time. My hands shake all the time. My hands sweat all the time. It's about that thing of just accepting what it is. And sometimes you're just nervous and it doesn't go away. And sometimes you can't just accept it

and you try to make it go away and then it gets worse and all those kinds of things. That's just life. And don't let that, don't let fear stop you from being who you're meant to be. Yeah. Mandy, as we close out this episode, I meant to ask you this before we hit record and it completely flew out of my brain, but I was going to ask if you'd be willing to sing something

for us, ideally something that maybe you sing to yourself as you're chasing a dream or going after an opportunity or feeling the nerves or something along those lines like that is just sort of an uplifting thing for you that you can share with us. We begin fearless, we crawl, we walk, we run until we fall, begin again, begin again, we climb until the world puts up a wall. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

Oh my gosh, Mandy, thank you for being our guest. And I know people are wanna find and learn more about you. So friends, the website is mandygonzales.com or you can find and follow her on Instagram at mandy.gozales. Or if you find yourself in New York City, she is guest starring in the role of Norma Desmond on Broadway's upcoming Sunset Boulevard. And what that means when she's guest starring is that she is in that role on Tuesdays.

So make sure if you're booking to book on Tuesdays so you can see Mandy Gonzalez live. Mandy, thank you. Thank you, Nicole. This was so you can see Mandy Gonzalez live. Mandy, thank you. Thank you, Nicole. This was so great. It was my pleasure. All right. As we wrap up this episode on how to chase your dream, I want to share a quote that I found from Mandy, and that is to keep working, keep believing, and let your love for the

craft guide you through every challenge because the journey is as beautiful as the dream itself. Dream chasing isn't about guarantees. It's about showing up, doing the work, and trusting yourself to figure it out as you go. It's about having the courage to go after what lights you up, even in those moments where it may feel impossible. So here's my challenge to you. Take one step toward your dream today, no matter how big or small. One action,

one risk, one moment of saying yes to yourself. Because if there is anything I've learned, it's that dreams don't chase us. We get to chase them. And you know what I'm going to say, don't you? Dream chasing is absolutely, absolutely, woman's work.