This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - It’s Time to Give a FECK with Chaz Ebert | 210

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

We say kindness doesn’t cost a thing, but the reality is it must cost something or we’d be choosing it more. Today we talk about giving a FECK (forgiveness, empathy, compassion, kindness) and how we move from pithy statements to meaningful action. Here to help us do that is Chaz Ebert, CEO of Ebert Digital, the publisher of the preeminent movie review site RogerEbert.com, a legal adviser, TV and movie producer at Ebert Productions. For twenty-four years, she shared a life with Pulitzer Prize-winner Roger Ebert, and Chaz has passionately continued their work, leading numerous events while nurturing film critics, filmmakers, and technologists through the Roger Ebert Fellowship. Chaz has just released her book: It’s Time to Give a FECK - Elevating Humanity through Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion, and Kindness. It's time for us to start GIVING a FECK! And yes, I wish Empathy started with a U.  Connect with Chaz: Website: https://giveafeck.com/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/chazebert/  LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chaz-ebert-b3822545/  X: https://twitter.com/ChazEbert/  Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsor: Visit  https://www.heyfreya.co/ and use promo code TIWW for 25% off Quench to keep yourself hydrated!

I am Nicole Kalil, and if you tune in regularly to This Is Woman's Work, you already know that I have a favorite F-word. So when you looked at the title of this episode, you might have thought it got autocorrected and we just didn't notice. But no, today we are going to talk about giving a feck. More specifically, giving forgiveness, empathy, compassion, and kindness, which our guest today believes are all necessary for us to elevate humanity. And I agree with her, but I sure do wish the empathy started with a U, just for the purpose of our show today.

Honestly, it would likely be pretty hard for us to find somebody who is against any of those things in principle. We're surrounded by messages telling us to be kind, to practice empathy, the value of forgiveness and compassion. But agreeing with it and living it are two totally different things. I mean, we'll practice them when it's easy or convenient. We'll hashtag random acts of kindness, slap a forgiveness bumper sticker on our car, listen intently to a keynote about empathy. We'll talk about being compassionate and loving our neighbor. But what about when it gets hard? How many of us are practicing empathy with somebody who says something that goes against everything that we believe? How kind are we being behind people's backs or in rooms they're not in? Where's the compassion in the comments section on social media?

And how good are we at practicing forgiveness, really? We say kindness doesn't cost a thing, but it must cost something or to be choosing it a lot more. So today, we're not going to just talk about the value of giving effect, but the giving of it, how we move from pithy statements to meaningful action, how we choose to give effect when it's hard. Here to help us do that is Chaz Ebert, CEO of Ebert Digital, the publisher of the preeminent movie review site rogerebert.com, and a legal advisor, TV, and movie producer at Ebert Productions. For 24 years, she shared a life with Pulitzer Prize winner Roger Ebert, and Chaz has passionately continued their work, leading numerous events while nurturing

film critics, filmmakers, and technologists through the Roger Ebert Fellowship. Chaz awards the Golden Thumb and Ebert Humanitarian Awards to filmmakers who exhibit an unusually compassionate view of the world. And she has just released a book, It's Time to Give a Feck, Elevating Humanity Through Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion, and Kindness. Chaz, thank you for being here to talk about your new book. Nicole, thank you so much. And thank you for that great introduction.

Yeah, my pleasure. Intros are my favorite. Okay. As I mentioned already, FEC is an acronym, Forgiveness, Empathy, Compassion, and Kindness. But can you share a little bit more about why you believe those are necessary steps, choices, or ingredients that we need in order to elevate humanity? I think that those human values or principles, I call them my FEC principles, are things that I've seen work. I have had people who are on a different side of the political spectrum from me, and I try to lean with empathy or compassion or kindness

rather than leaning in with why my side is right and your side is wrong. And it's worked. It's helped unify people and friends and even people who are, you know, colleagues who are on opposite sides. And I certainly wish we could take it to Congress and get them to give a feck and try to come together more often. I've also seen it work, you know, I say that when we give a feck, it doesn't have to be a big, grand gesture. It can be something small. And I want to use one example in forgiveness that's not in the forgiveness chapter up front, but something that one of my Ebert Fellows did. And Ebert Fellows, by the way, are men and women who have gone through some of the programs I've endowed around the country for emerging filmmakers, film critics, or technologists.

And I asked them to apply one of the principles in their work. So that's what, when I say Ebert Fellows, it doesn't mean guys. I get it. Thanks for the context. Yep. So during, I think it was during lockdown, one of the Ebert Fellows named Laura Garber had to go back home to live with her mother after everything shut down. And I don't know if there had been some tension between her and her mother, but she decided one of the ways that she wanted to diffuse it was to watch a movie together. And I love this story

because she chose one of the movies that's my go-to movie. I have two go-to movies if I want to cry, if I need a cathartic cry about something, Terms of Endearment with Shirley MacLaine and Deborah Winger. And Deborah Winger plays the daughter who's dying in the hospital. And Shirley MacLaine is this crusty old mother who is not very nurturing, but she's able to let her feelings flow when her daughter's sick in the hospital. Laura said that she recognized something about herself when watching that movie. She would never cry if her mother was in the room watching the movie with her. I think she wanted to appear to be just stronger, emotionalist. I'm not quite sure why, but she said that during lockdown, when they were watching the movie together and it was so much, seemed so much more poignant. During the hospital scene, Laura said she could feel herself

tightening up, not to cry, but she decided it was a gift she was going to give to her relationship between herself and her mother to allow herself to cry and let down and show her mother how very emotional she got during the movie. She said it really broke the ice between her and her mother to let her mother know how she really felt about that movie and that scene. And really, to her, she was telegraphing to her mother how much she really cared for her mother and loved her. And I think she said, after watching at that time and breaking down crying, she and her mother told each other, I love you. What I love about that story is that reminder that you gave us already, that giving effect doesn't mean necessarily that it needs to be big and public and, you know, impact millions of people in order for it to, and I put in air quotes, to count. I think we as women often think that it needs to be big in order for it to count. I think we as women often think that it needs to be big in order

for it to count. But in that moment, I'm guessing it was a very big thing to allow those emotions to come through with somebody. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, they say that one person can't make a difference. One person can make a difference. And that's the other reason I wrote the book, because I want people to know whatever you do in the name of unity, whatever you do in the name of love, whatever you do in the name of respecting another person counts. And you don't know the ripple effect that that will have. When they go out into the world to do things, if you've repaired a relationship, that could affect, I mean, it could have a big ripple effect that you just don't know. And one of my other favorite stories in the book is about James Harrison, the man from Australia,

who, when he was 14 or 15 years old, had to have like a open chest surgery. And he lost a lot of blood. And they called people to the hospital to donate blood. And he had to take something like 13 pints of blood from 13 different people in order to live. And when he, his surgery was very successful. When he got out of surgery and he heard about all these people donating blood, he told his mother, I want to donate blood. His mother said, you have to be 18 to donate blood. And he said, well, I'm going to do it. So every year when he was 16, can I donate blood? Nope. You have to wait until you're 18. 17, on his 18th birthday, he went to the hospital to donate his first pint of blood to pay back. It was like, I call that

a reciprocal kindness. Well, I pause because this story is so amazing. When we talk about one person, it turned out that his blood had some sort of antibodies in it that I call superpower antibodies to help make an antigen that saved the lives of women and babies. You know, some mothers had blood that almost poisoned their children and they needed an antigen injection in order to save the babies. His blood had those antigens. And when they found out his blood had the superpower, this man donated blood every week or two weeks from the time he was 18 years old until he was 81 years old when the law didn't let you donate blood anymore. He donated over a thousand times, let's say 1100 times, and they calculated that he saved 2.5 million babies with the antigens from his blood, 2.5 million. And the Red Cross in Australia said

every ounce of antigen, anti-D is what it was called, that was made in Australia came from the blood of James, from James's plasma. And the other thing that I love the story so much, no one could verify this, but they think that medically the reason his blood had such superpower antibodies is because those 13 different people, blood he got from 13 different people when he was 14 or 15 years old, combined to create all of these antibodies. This is a long story, but when I talk about the ripple effect of, you never know how one of the things that you do in forgiveness, empathy, compassion, or kindness will count. So incredibly powerful story. And let me also add my blood donors literally saved my sister and my nephew's life. So that is a very powerful and seemingly, and I put in air quotes, small way that you can make such a big difference. So good reminder there. And also I think what I am taking away from this is the theme of we probably won't know.

Like we hear these big stories and that story is a phenomenal example. And there are people who donate blood or do all sorts of things all over the world all the time, and we don't see it. So how do you, I don't know if maybe personally or from your observation and experience, how do we choose to give effect while knowing that we might not, and most likely will not, see the direct outcome of it? Okay, so this is what I say. Not only are you doing something for someone else, you're doing something for you. And that is also a scientific fact. When we commit a random act of kindness, or when we find it in our hearts to put ourselves in the shoes of another person to empathize with them, whether we're watching someone on the screen for two hours,

or we go and volunteer somewhere to see what it's like to be another person and to see what challenges they have. When we do that, that compassion and that kindness causes our hearts to grow. But what it does from a physiological perspective is it creates all of these neural transmitters and all of these really feel-good things that endorphins and oxytocin that run throughout our body. It makes us feel better. And guess what? They said it actually makes us healthier. So just think about, even if you sat, I would love to do a seminar where I have people sit and think about one person who either did a really good deed for them or that they did a good deed for. And start thinking

because you can actually see people's faces change. You see their posture change thinking about this. So these are things you may not know that you're saving 2.5 million babies, but you know that you are making yourself feel better. And guess what? When you go out, the next person that you see, you're more likely to smile at them. You're more likely to say hello. You're more likely to drop some of the bitter feelings that you have toward another person. You're more likely to let more love and light into your life so that you are able to show up as your best self in the world. It may not happen all the time, but I guarantee you it will happen.

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Use my code TIWW to get yourself 25% off. Okay, let's get back to the show. It is true from my experience. And what I love too, you're saying this is yes, when we give or when we are kind or practice empathy or show compassion, we hopefully make an impact to the person that we're doing it to, but we definitely make an impact in ourselves. And what I heard you say too, is it's contagious. It's contagious. It really is. Absolutely. So we don't know the ripple effects. We don't know what our one seemingly small act of kindness might do down the road and around the world. So I love that. One of the things you talk about is

that we are connected, that we are in this together. Yes. What can we do to prove to ourselves and each other that we really are in this together? Because I think we, like as I said in the beginning, I think we, and I put air quotes, know that. But hypothetically, I don't know that we're living that. You're absolutely right. So one of the things that I would like to do, I don't even know if it's practical, but I'd like to have what I call FEC dinners. So go this is a political season we're going through,

what if I had a dinner with Fox News watchers sitting across from MSNBC news watchers and putting them around a table, not ostensibly to talk about politics, but just to eat. We'd have dinners together because when you're sharing a meal with someone, you're less likely to have your guard up. First of all, you're talking about the meal. Food, you know, gives you a little bit of an endorphin high as well. And then just start talking, but with simple questions, finding out if we could find the meeting point, the point where a center

point where everybody can kind of agree on that, yeah, we all want to be a little happier. Yes, we all want to know that we're secure in our jobs. Yes, we all want to know that we're probably not going to have a war on our land or something. finding out some area of agreement before we move out to areas where we disagree. But I'd like to do that and have those dinners around the country in red states and blue states and, you know, actually in independent states as well. Because I do think that there is, my mission is to unify people, to bring people together. And I think it's possible. Yeah. So where do you suggest we begin so that it's not just something we talk about, but something we're in action about? What contributions can we be making? Where do we

start in the name of forgiveness, empathy, compassion, and kindness? You know, I was on television with Richard Roper, who was my late husband, Roger Ebert's TV partner after Gene Siskel died. And Richard Roper loved the part in the book where I said, think of like a cartoon character or character from a movie that you would like to emulate or somebody that you think made a difference. And what are your traits that are similar to that? Or how could you do something? So I also have something in here where I say, if there's someone that you have some discomfort with, think of how you would feel practice running into that person in your mind first. Look in a mirror. What can you do and say?

How can you, what are the pros and cons of keeping that relationship toxic? And what are the pros and cons of making that relationship better? And you know what? Usually the pros and cons of making a relationship better outweigh the pros and cons of keeping it toxic. Because when you have carrying around all that revenge or making yourself feel like a victim, even if it's not your fault, you have to find a way to come out of it. And forgiveness is one of those ways of doing it. Sometimes you have to meditate. Sometimes you have to talk to maybe a therapist or, you know, or a friend. Sometimes you have to get down on your knees and say a prayer and just ask to be relieved of this burden. And when you forgive, you're surprised.

I was surprised. I'm speaking from personal experience, surprised how much lighter I felt, how much sunnier, how much better the next day was when I'm not carrying this around. Sometimes you may be carrying it around and the person that you have that you want to forgive doesn't even know it, that you're thinking about that. They may have forgotten all about it. And then you feel like a schmo. Why am I doing this? And this person

doesn't even care. They're going on with their life. That's a long one, Nicole. But I think that, you know, in talking to people, they say forgiveness is probably one of the hardest ones. I agree. Forgiveness and empathy I find to be the most challenging personally. You do share some inspiring stories of people who've overcome pretty tough circumstances and unified groups of people and complete strangers in the name of love. Let's pull out the Candace Payne story. Tell us a little bit about that. Oh my goodness. I love that story. She is a woman in Chicago who lives on the south side of Chicago, a business owner, small business owner, not anyone from a lot of means. And in fact, her background is someone who you

would have never thought would be a person who would own a business. I think it was January of 2019, we had what was called a polar vortex in Chicago. I had never even heard that term before, but it was so cold. They said that there was a big Arctic blast from Canada that came down and blanketed us with ice and frozen snow. It was like the frozen tundra. It was below 30 degrees below zero or something, some incredible thing that you can't even really fathom. And when she went outside to go to work, she realized, she called all her employees and said, no one come to work. You can't even get around. And she went back home and she told her husband, wait a minute, what are the homeless people going to do? They're out there. Some of them aren't even in tents. They're under, maybe under bridges. What are they going to do? She took a credit card to call around to find hotels so that she would have someplace to take them.

She put on social media. She had a little car. She went around to pick up people, but she found that she needed a bigger van. So she put on social media, please help me. I will pay you to help me transport people, but we need to pick up people who are without homes and take them to a safe place so they won't freeze to death in the polar vortex. People responded. She could not believe how many people responded. And this

is when she cries because she says she didn't realize that people were so good. That wasn't her experience in life. And she said that's when she realized that realize that people were so good. That wasn't her experience in life. And she said that's when she realized that people really wanted to be good. People wanted to show up. And so many people showed up. This story almost makes me want to cry now because she told me some people actually spent the night at the motel so they could help cook food for some of the homeless people who they put in rooms. And they took turns. Some people had to go back to work, but they would come to the hotel, help her, take their van, go out. And I think by the end of that week, instead of getting a room for one night for 20 people,

I think she ended up getting rooms for about 75 people, but she saved over 122 people. Some women who were out there pregnant, homeless and pregnant. Can you imagine that? 30 degrees below zero, took them out, took them to a hotel, gave them food. I'm sorry, all of these stories sound so long, but they're so incredible. I can't believe how, this is what I think, Nicole. I think that people basically are good and I think people basically want to be good. I couldn't agree more. And again, very powerful story because obviously of the people she impacted, but also, as you said, the impact it had on her, just that statement, I didn't realize that people were so good. Yes.

To literally have an entirely different perspective of humanity for herself coming out of that is really incredible. And again, how many other people step up. So cool. Okay. While I have you, I have to ask you one last question. Where do you think film and media play a part in spreading the message or representing this concept of giving effect? Okay. Two films that I mentioned in my book that I think actually shows the fact, some of the fact principles are Ava DuVernay's film

Selma about Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And I think that that film was showed one of the things I really like about the film is it portrayed Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. not as some superman who had to put on a cape every morning and fly out and save the world. He was a man, an ordinary man, like other men who decided that he wanted to make a difference. And he reached out to the church community and to people, his neighbors and the people, and he started going out and doing the work. And when you watch the film, you think, wait a minute, if he can do that, I can do that. You think some of these historical figures had started out with maybe more empathy or more kindness. No, sometimes they had to learn it and they develop it as they go along. Candace Payne developed it as she went along. She came out of it. She came out

of that situation changed. I also talk about a cartoon that I love, an animated feature, Inside Out. And I don't know, have you ever seen that? I love it. It's one of my favorites. And they're coming out with the second one and I cannot wait. I can't wait to see what they do with the second one. But the little girl, Riley, in the first one, they showed all of her emotions and they actually labeled the emotions disgust, sadness, happiness. And they showed these emotions sitting at a control, manipulating little Riley to be sad. The thing that I loved about that movie is I saw the movie in a room full of men. There were men and women, but it was primarily because it was film critics and other film people. They were primarily

men. And they were sobbing or I could hear them sniffling sobs sometimes when Riley was really sad. And I thought, how can an animated film, a cartoon really make you feel like that? But it can. And I think that filmmakers, it doesn't mean that you have to start out making a sappy movie or movie that you think is just sunny. It can be science fiction. It can be anything. It can be a drama. But I think that there are ways that we can put human values and not just car explosions in films. Now, I got nothing against car explosions. I love those car explosion summer movies, too. ones that have some human value or something that shows you how a human connection, how doing something for someone else makes not only their life better, but makes your life better. I love that. Chaz, thank you for being here today and for putting this incredible book out into the

world. Friend, go and get your hands on Give Effect. You can go to giveeffect.com or order on Amazon or get it from your local bookstore. You can also find Chaz on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter at Chaz Ebert, or go to rogerebert.com to get your movie reviews. You heard it here first. It's time for us to start giving effect, forgiveness for others, not necessarily because they've earned it, but because it hurts you more to carry it than it does to set it down. And sometimes the greatest opportunity we have is to forgive ourselves. Empathy. Ask yourself, how would I feel? What would I believe? And who would I be if I lived another person's life and experiences. And remember, it requires great courage and

confidence to have a heart-to-heart with somebody that you don't see eye-to-eye with. Compassion requires us to be sensitive, to go out of our way to help relieve the suffering of others, and kindness. It honestly might actually cost you something, but no act of kindness is ever wasted because kindness connects us. It makes both the receiver and the giver happier and it's contagious. And that's the kind of pandemic we really need. There are certainly times, people, and situations where not giving a fuck is encouraged, but giving a feck always is.

And I like to believe that is woman's work.