This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Pants On Fire (The Truth About Lying) with Lauren Handel Zander | 219

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

Every time you lie – or fib, stretch or bend the truth, blow smoke, tell a white lie, tell a bald faced lie, lie thru your teeth, spin a yarn, hold back, keep the peace, it doesn’t matter what you call it – every time you do it, you’re chipping away at your own confidence.  On this episode of This Is Woman’s Work, we’re going to talk about the lies we tell, why we do it, and what it’s costing us. Lauren Handel Zander, Founder and CEO of Handel Group, an international corporate consulting and life coaching company, joins as our guest. Her coaching methodology, The Handel Method®, is taught in over 35 universities and institutes of learning around the world, including MIT, Stanford Graduate School of Business, and NYU. She is the creator of Inner.U: the online coaching course that teaches us to Human Better®, and leverages the entirety of The Handel Method, which is being used by celebrities, CEOs, and entrepreneurs. The author of Maybe It’s You, Lauren has been a featured expert in The New York Times, BBC, Forbes, Women’s Health, Dr. Oz, and Marie Claire and has also contributed to Businessweek and the Huffington Post. It’s time to tell the truth – your truth. Because if your pants are going to be on fire, let’s have it be about what matters - because of the fire that’s inside you, not because of the lies you tell.  Connect with Lauren: Website: https://www.inneru.coach/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/inneru.coach/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/laurenzander_coach/  The InnerU Course that’s used by dozens of celebrities, CEOs, and entrepreneurs: https://www.inneru.coach/ To receive $75 off use code: NICOLEKALIL  Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsor: Go to AquaTru.com and enter code TIWW at checkout for 20% off any AquaTru purifier to get yourself, and someone you love, purified water!

One of the very best ways to build your confidence is to be honest. Speak your truth. Because confidence is ultimately about trust. It's when you trust yourself firmly and boldly. And I think we'd all agree that we trust the people in our lives that tell the truth and we lose trust with the people who lie. Seems fairly obvious, right? But I want you to think about that a little deeper for a minute. When you're lied to, you lose trust. Duh. Again, super obvious. But it works the other way too. When you lie, you lose trust. Yes,

the trust of the person you were dishonest with if they figure out that you lied. But, and I need you to hear me on this one, when you lie, you lose trust in yourself every time you do it, whether or not the other person ever finds out. Let me say that again, because I really need you to hear this. Every time you lie or fib, stretch or bend the truth, blow smoke, tell a white lie, tell a bald face lie, lie through your teeth, spin a yarn, hold back, keep the peace, it doesn't matter what you call it. Every time you do it, you're chipping away at your own confidence, regardless of whether or not someone else ever finds out that you lied, because you already know that you did.

And the result is you lose trust in you. So why the fuck do we do it? Seriously, let's ask ourselves what it is that we're prioritizing, what we're putting ahead of, what we deem as more important than our own confidence, our own ability to trust ourselves. Is it other people's feelings? What other people think about us? What are we actually doing here and why has it become so easy to do it? I mean, seriously, I wish we'd all get Pinocchio syndrome or that our pants would actually catch on fire if it prevented more people from spreading all the bullshit and getting away with all the lies.

From politics to social media, the courtroom to the bedroom, the big lies we tell when it really matters and the little ones that fly out of our mouths when it doesn't matter at all. On today's episode of This Is Woman's Work, we're going to talk about the lies we tell, why we do it, and what it's costing us. And I've asked Lauren Handel Zander to join us. Lauren is the founder and CEO of Handel Group, an international corporate consulting and life coaching company. Her coaching methodology, the Handel Method, is taught in over 35 universities and

institutes of learning around the world, including MIT, Stanford Graduate School of Business, and NYU, to name a few. She is the creator of Inner You, the online coaching course that teaches us to human better and leverages the entirety of the Handel method, which is being used by celebrities, CEOs, and entrepreneurs. The author of Maybe It's You, Lauren has been a featured expert in the New York Times, BBC, Forbes, Women's Health, Dr. Oz, and Marie Claire, and has also contributed to Businessweek and Huffington Post. So the woman knows what she's talking about. Lauren, thank you for being our guest. I'm excited to talk about lying, which is something I never thought I'd say out loud. But let me start by asking maybe the most important question of them all.

Why do we lie? We want to keep other people happy and we don't want to get in trouble. We don't want to get in trouble. We don't want someone to know what's really going on. We're scared what they're going to do. We want to manage and control the situation and whatever we just did or whatever we think they're going to think we want to be in charge of. So we tell what we think they want to hear, or we don't even know why we lie. Our parents lie. So the only other answer is we were raised in it. So we don't even hear them coming out. Our parents lie. So the only other answer is we were raised in it.

So we don't even hear them coming out of our mouth. It could even be with no good reason. It's just like, you look great. And the thought in my head was, no, you don't. You look exhausted. Why did I just say that? Oh, I want her to feel good. Oh, it's social. Like, so we have reason after reason after reason. And my line is that lying has become a virtue. Like telling you something nice is like good for you. Right. It's that toxic positivity sort of thing. I also think, okay, so in that example, you look great, but you think they look exhausted. I think sometimes when we talk about being honest, that doesn't give us permission to say whatever the fuck we want. I don't walk up to somebody and be like, oh, you look exhausted. That might be honest,

but that doesn't mean that's a necessary comment. So I guess my question is, how do we be honest responsibly? So we see a lot of people who are out there, and I'm going to put in air quotes, telling the truth, which means basically like telling it how they see it. But they're being complete dicks about it, regardless of gender. Absolutely. So how do we tell the truth in a responsible way while being mindful of other people's feelings that we care about or what really matters to us or how people perceive us? The point is, first, you have to figure out how the very individual, how one lies, right?

I wrote out about seven different ways a person lies. And then I really have a person make a lie list. Like, how do you do these? Why don't you figure out how you do them? And then even figure out why you do them and who you do them to, right? So rather than making it immediately about the other person, I really do make it about oneself and minding what comes out of your mouth, like your words and how you talk and how you think and what you say really matter, right? So no, I'm not saying walk up to someone and say, what's up with your hair, right? Like nothing like that at all. This is not permission to hurt someone's feelings or say something unnecessary.

It really is like, I think there's a science, you know, they've done studies where every human, that's all of us, lie 13 times a day, minimally. And everyone's like, what do you mean I don't lie? Maybe I do. So I don't even think we've looked for the ways we lie and then really faced why we do it. Okay. So let's do that. What are some of the ways that people are lying? And as you go through it, I mean, I am a person who does lie because obviously I'm human. Like you said, everybody does it. I try really hard to be mindful not to.

But as you go through that, I'm going to think about the ways that I might be doing that. And what you're doing it for. And I'll give generalizations of why a person does it. Great. So outright lies, right? Outright lies are, I'm going to the movies. And no, you're not. You went out on a date with that person, right? Outright lies are, I'm going to the movies. And no, you're not. You went out on a date with that person, right?

So an outright lie is usually to protect yourself or protect the other person, air quote, because you're protecting yourself while you're protecting them. Or you don't want them to know something because they could get hurt. So you go, oh, I didn't hear anything from John. Right. But he just spoke to you for an hour and told you all the ways he's going to break up with Susie. Right. And you're like, oh, OK. So outright lie. Next one is lying by omission. Right. If you don't ask, I don't have to tell. Except if you knew I knew that, you'd be really hurt. So omission is you didn't ask me what I was doing, right? If you didn't ask me how I felt about that, why do I

have to tell you how I feel? Yeah, I was hurt, right? So people get to get away with not telling their truth by lying by omission. Next one. They get smaller from here, right? But they all count. Lying by exaggerating. I had the best time. Right? So some people really like to tell a story, right? And they want it to sound better than it was, right? And so they are exaggerators.

This one really bothers other people. Like everyone can't, like if I say, make a list of everyone you think exaggerates, you could have a list of your friends. You're like, oh, they don't really tell that. How much money do you really think he made last year? Right? So the braggers get in trouble here. So lying by exaggerating. Next one, lying by under exaggerating. It was good. Oh, we're good. It's okay. Yeah, I sold the company.

It wasn't bad. It was pretty good, right? So they don't want to tell something. They hide the information and they're scared that someone's going to think something. So they're lying because they don't want other people to have opinions. Then there is lying by, ready everyone? This is the one we all can quote. Lying by avoiding confrontation. If I brought it up, it would create a confrontation. I can't possibly bring that up. It's confronting.

I don't want to be confronting. So the truth becomes confronting, right? And a confrontation. And it even sounds virtuous to not be confronting. This one is another one that people really have that's lying by taking something to the grave. Like I'm allowed to keep secrets, right? It's none of your business. And this one in particular, in my coaching, I end up working with is because this one really hurts people themselves, right? If you can't talk about something and you're taking it to the grave,

you are doing that because you're so embarrassed or ashamed or worried what people are going to think again. And then you don't know that you're keeping a lot of pain in. There's many more ways we lie, but those are like my main seven. And I think as you were going through them, I think we all have experienced or done those, you know, for sure in our lives, if not like in the last week. So I opened up the show by saying lying damages our confidence. And we talked about different ways that we might be lying. What other ways is lying damaging us and our relationships? Why should we care is my question. So when you lie to keep someone else happy, or when you lie, because you don't think someone can handle the truth, you're literally making yourself separate. Like you're over here, the real you is over here. And then this PR agent, like your public relations person is running the relationship with your

mother, father, child, best friend, coworker, like you're managing your appearance, not your real truths. And so how do you expect to feel deep, connected, love, confident? How do you expect to feel anything if you're keeping up appearances and you're managing perceptions? That's a lot of work, right? It's exhausting. It's exhausting.

And then keeping up your personality, right? Like you have a character and your character is more important than who you really are and what you really have to say. Okay. So well said. What effect, I guess, does lying have in the different areas of our lives? So the example you gave, it creates distance in relationships. I could see that being highly problematic with your partner or child or parents or best friends. But my coworker, I don't know if I care about having the closest relationship. So what effect does lying have in the different aspects of the things that we do and who we are? There's no need to lie.

The first thing, there's no need to lie. If you're not friends with that person, you're not deeper connected. There shouldn't be anything you have to lie about. Lying is an active thing you did. Like, oh, that's great. I thought you did a great job. Social grease for the sake of having character and making chit chat, the first thing I do is I have people drop that because you don't realize that's exhausting too. If you walk away and listen to your inner dialogue, like I've been doing this for a long time and I track people's inner

dialogue connected to lying and stopping lying and starting to catch lies and why you even told it, it's like an anchor to start to see why you're over-caring and under-caring and reacting to everything. It's a great way to listen to yourself. If you take on no lying and then you go, well, you don't have, there's so much less talking you have to do. There's less bullshitting you need to do. You'd be amazed that even in the most important relationships, people don't know what the other one wants in bed. I mean, I have fixed in marriages, like after 20 years, like, did you ever, like, what's your dream for your sex life? And that's like, what do you mean?

What's my dream for you? I'm like, it's not that tricky guys, right? Like that you got some parts. How do you like them? Right? Like, what do you like? How do you like it? But and then it's like, why does it like, have you ever had that conversation?

Can you have that conversation? And then they have a story, like an entire dissertation of why their husband can't handle the truth. And then I go, oh, I know what the, do you lie about orgasms? And then if you find a yes there, then you're now have a real liar taken to the grave. So what I'm hearing is, you know, the lie in itself is problematic, but what we should be really curious about is why we feel compelled to. Like what's driving the desire or the decision to lie versus tell the truth or not say anything at all? And that can give us some insight. In order to be present, there is a way to, lying is a brilliant method

to get a person to actually care about everything coming out of your mouth, which then starts to have you wonder what you're saying in your head. So all roads that I'm working on lead you to your inner dialogue, because that inner dialogue of yours directs your next action. And if you don't have mastery or rights to your inner dialogue, and your inner dialogue is like saying whatever it wants,

thinking however it thinks, like it just takes you for a ride, then you're going to be faking orgasms, right? You're going to be staying up late watching Netflix too late. And then you're not going to exercise in the morning and you have no power. So lying and starting to care about every word coming out of your mouth or the ways you lie is a way to have actual self-respect and love. And then it lets you respect everybody else. If you know me, you know that I get more than a little frustrated about all the conflicting beliefs and advice among those in the health and wellness industry. But one thing I found

that they can all agree on is the importance of drinking water. And having safe, clean water is the last thing we should have to worry about. And yet, according to extensive research, three out of four homes in America have harmful contaminants in their tap water. So here's why I personally use and endorse Aquatrue. First, their purifiers use a four-stage reverse osmosis purification process and remove 15 times more contaminants than ordinary pitchers. And they fit every type of home, from installation-free countertop purifiers to higher-capacity under-sink options. And the filters are affordable and long-lasting. Just one set of filters from their classic purifier makes the equivalent of 4,500 water bottles, which is less than three cents a bottle.

Plus, big bonus, you'll save the environment by using less plastic. Listen, if I'm going to drink 80 ounces of water a day, I want it to be the very best water. AquaTrue comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee, and my listeners receive 20% off any AquaTrue purifier. Go to AquaTrue.com. That's A-Q-U-A-T-R-U.com and enter code T-I-W-W at checkout. Again, 20% off any AquaTrue water purifier when you go to AquaTrue.com and use promo code T-I-W-W. So I've heard in preparation for this, I've heard you say that to force yourself to stop lying or to choose to stop lying is an act of self-respect.

That really resonated with me, but tell us a little more about that. Why is it that deeply connected? Okay. So you have a self and who you are, your soul, however you relate to yourself. It did not come to be a fraud. It did not come to bullshit people, to make other people feel something that isn't true for you. Like to know yourself is to be honest.

And you can't be honest if you're lying. They're literally the opposite things. So to know yourself and not to lie is to always tell the truth or to say nothing. Right? And that is an act of self-love. Because how do you love yourself if you're lying to everybody else? How do you love yourself if you're willing to lie to that person to make them feel something? Like, is that self-respect? What is self-respect then? It's treating yourself like what you think really matters and how you feel really matters and what you do really matters and what you do really matter matters right like

you matter and if you matter you treat yourself like you matter and that's very honest when i'm taking away is like we lose connection to ourself we lose respect of ourself we lose ourself when we prioritize what we think you you know, when we prioritize other people's feelings or our perception of their feelings as well as how they see us over speaking our truth and how we see ourselves. That's right. Oh, okay. So let's talk, because I know there are people listening and I have a little bit of it myself too, of like, when is it better to lie? More specifically, like, when is it okay? When does it not cause as much damage or does it always cause as much damage no matter for what reason or when you're doing it? So I have been negotiating when to tell

hard truths my whole career. So the child's adopted. Do you believe in telling the child is adopted? Like that is a deep belief that is not mine to go, you owe that truth. Right? Like, ah, that's heavy. That's like deep. You adopted a child. You don't, like, oh, you got inseminated and that's not your sperm. Right? Oh, do you, like, so there are really, like, that's a heavy subject that the parents are making a very big decision. There's no parent to go find or they, like,'s a heavy subject that the parents are making a very big decision. There's no parent to go find or they, like, what do you really believe about adoption? Or what do you believe about that you cheated, right? I've coached people who have cheated, who then went into marriage counseling.

And then when are they going to tell that they cheated becomes a matter of time, right? And context. And I even have helped someone who was never going to tell, like, stop everything. Like, what can we get you to do? So you do everything but go to the grave with that secret. And even that person who stopped lying about everything, about four or five years later, after her marriage got so much better,

couldn't live with herself and confessed it. And then they went back into therapy and they have a beautiful marriage now, right? Like they did the work. So I have compromises about heavy duty life, big ones, and that, that it's an individual's choice. And it sounds like timing from a, like, when do I feel is the best time to share this or what are the consequences to me and everyone else? There's probably, so with the big, big, big ones, there's probably a lot more to negotiate,

but let me take us all the way to the opposite side, because I think this is where we probably lie maybe more often, but think it, and I put in air quotes, doesn't matter. The like, do you want to go out tonight? Oh no, I have other plans with so-and-so, or I'm not feeling well. And it's like, no, I just don't want to go. Right? Like, any tips about what to do in those moments where, you know, maybe it's not that big of a deal, but you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. I feel like that's where it pops up a lot in those little moments. Great question. Like, what do you say? Oh, thank you for asking me. And I, I, I have to confess, I'm kind of a homebody. Like, so you take full responsibility for why it's your truth. Like you're actually making a vulnerable moment where you're sharing yourself.

Right. It's the opposite of keeping someone else happy. It's actually being intimate and vulnerable. Right. Your truths are important and special. And then what you also don't realize is the more you start to tell them, the more other people will tell you theirs. Right. So it's kind of like breaking the fourth wall. Like there's a wall there of letting someone in and knowing you. Well, and back to what we were saying earlier about lying, creating distance, telling the truth creates connection because your example is perfect. I am a homebody and I do often, you know, get asked if I want to do this or that. And to just be able to say, listen, I am so introverted. The anxiety and all the things that I need to go through to get myself

to do that, I just don't have it in me today. Or I've had a really long week and I'm very much looking forward to an evening by myself or whatever it is. Yeah. It's the advantage of telling the truth is you're sort of standing up for yourself, but you're also sharing yourself. And now, you know, if I do that with these people, they're going to begin to know that. So the next time they ask and I'm like, oh, sorry, just not feeling it. I don't need to explain myself every single time. And I don't need to come up with a new fucking lie every single time. Exactly. You mentioned lying by omission. And we talked a little bit about, you know, you, we do have the option to not say anything at all. I guess, when does it tip into a lie versus I'm just not going to say anything because it's not necessary to say. So I have a rule about this.

It's the three mumble rule. If your head talks about it three times, like if you have a thought like, I think I'm mad at you, or I don't think I liked what you said, or I don't want to go, or I don't, like something, something. Or you like are suspicious about something. It could be anything. And you're like, I don't want to have that conversation. I don't even know if it's true.

Right. So you talk yourself out of it once. If the mind comes back and says it again, I don't think I really believe him. Right. Or I don't know what really happened with that email. The second time it comes up, you're in trouble. Right. Or I don't know what really happened with that email. The second time it comes up, you're in trouble, right? Like note to self, if you don't get it to go away, you're going like the rule is the three mumble rule on the second time you hear it. If you hear it one more time or at the second time, you just go have the conversation and frame it. Like, I think I'm

in my head. I could be crazy, but could you let me know? I just don't, I don't know what really happened with that. Can you explain it again? Right. So I, if I hear something three times, I have to go deal with it. That's a great role. And I call that my higher self. If my higher selves keeps tapping me on the shoulder about something, like it will not stop talking and being concerned, there's a lesson in it for me. If I go have that conversation, I'll learn something. And mostly, we're just intimidated by being wrong, right? Like if I say something or they react or like, and so we're just scared of the risk of being in that moment of being in our own truth, which I promise, guys, if you follow these instructions, you will love yourself more and kind of be more engaged in your

own life. It makes it more fun. Well, and again, and people will get to know the real you and, and, you know, gosh, we talked about this earlier. It's just exhausting putting on the front or faking it. And I mean, I agree with you. Women have been faking far too much for far too long, right? So I'm curious, have you in your coaching work and in your research found if somebody lies more, does it impact their ability to trust? I said another way, do we assume if we lie that everybody else is lying times 10? Or do we see lies everywhere because we're doing it? Like, does it impact our perception of other people? It's a little, it's even a little creepier than

that. The answer is yes. It completely makes us paranoid and it makes it even worse. Like if, like the nine out of 10 times, everyone be, be prepared. This is frightening. Someone who's jealous of you, like jealous, like, where are you? What are you doing? They're, they're likely cheating. Like it's, it's extreme, right? The person. So when people are managing you about something, it's because they do it themselves. Okay. So if you're lying, it's virtually impossible to trust people really well. And then if they give you a compliment, you're like, oh, they don't really mean it. Right. So you're the voice in your head will mirror to you exactly how you treat others. Fascinating and a little scary.

It is, isn't it? Right. It makes you live in your own doubt. I want to talk about the lying by exaggerating and under-exaggerating. I feel like the lying by exaggerating happens a lot in business, maybe more specifically on social media and business. Also maybe in parenting. What is the exaggeration telling us about us? What are we watching out for when that happens? Is it a comparison thing? Is it a what what's happening? It's really trying to make ourselves feel better, like it's an insecurity. Or like, you know, so I know, I know this one woman, it was a very big deal for her to stop exaggerating everything, because she thought she was boring. And so she really wanted people to like her. And so she always embellished everything. So she would be more fun. But can you get that? Wait, let me get this

straight. You wanted to be more fun because you really thought you were boring. So you started to lie more, which really was proof you were boring in the first place. Yes. Okay. And then the under-exaggerating part, I could be wrong, but I feel like that might be something women might opt to more than our male counterparts because of the societal expectations that we be humble and that we don't brag or boast and that we be humble and, you know, that we don't brag or boast or, and that we'd be focused on others. So when we find ourself potentially going towards the under exaggerating, what would you coach someone to do to be honest in those moments? Is it just about sharing the facts or is there something about, hey, I'm uncomfortable sharing this, but I want you to know, like, what do we do? It's a deeper, so again, things are deeper, right? So it really is, if the person is an

under-exaggerator, you nailed it, right? They likely won't brag and they're ashamed of having the attention on themselves, of being proud of anything, or it could be scared of the evil eye. If I tell it, they'll want it, they'll be jealous, it's weird. And then a lot of that is our upbringing or religion. So for the under exaggerator who's humble, I make them make a brag list, like every ridiculously proud thing that you have ever accomplished. Because the other thing that happens is we don't let ourselves feel it. And we don't let ourselves have it. And it really isn't, I'm not saying it to show you up. That's more of the exaggerator and right boasting. So it's actually incredibly important for the humble person to find their brags. Yeah. Well, and some of them are just straight facts,

right? Like I wrote a book. That's not a brag. That's a fact, right? Or to even just say, you know, one of the things I'm really proud of, it doesn't need to be, I'm telling you this to impress you or to change your mind about me. I'm sharing something that's meaningful and important to me. That's neither of those things are bragging. It's just maybe we're not so used to doing it because we haven't been offered the opportunity all that often. I think, you know, in according to science, over 80% of our thoughts are negative. And we really don't have a lot of positive language about ourselves. Even about like, we might have it about others, but we we think it's like, virtuous to complain, or to not be happy or to always point out what

was wrong, right? As a way to get better. Instead of really learning how to appreciate yourself, love yourself, acknowledge yourself and talk sexy to yourself, right? Like, why aren't we allowed to talk hot to ourselves? And that doesn't mean you're pretending you don't have shit. And the, usually one of the things I have people do is look at who you're, who's in your head, who's in the audience in your head. Like who, when you think of something, you know,

that you did great, who do you want to tell? Right. Or if you're hiding something, who don't you want to know? Right? So there's always this, like, who are you pleasing? Who's the board members in your mind that you're still answering to? And that's basically also in the lying business and managing what you're saying at all times to yourself. Fascinating. And also just, I mean, really great information. Thank you. And if you're listening and you want to learn more about Lauren and her work, first and foremost, absolutely check out Inner You. It is used by celebrity CEOs and entrepreneurs, and it really is about learning to human better. You can go to inneryou.coach, so I-N-N-E-R, the letter U,.coach, and you can go to inneru.coach. So I-N-N-E-R, the letter U, dot coach. And you can use Nicole

Khalil to get $75 off your course. So Lauren, thank you so much for being here. I very much appreciate your time and wisdom. And I am going to do the no lie thing and really pay attention because holy shit, that's going to be hard. I consider myself a fairly honest person, but we all do it. Yeah. Awesome. And then if you just wrote down when you were going to lie, why you were going to lie, you will really have revelations. Okay. And I'm going to report back for my listeners. Awesome. Excellent. Okay, friend, more than any product you could buy, any weight you could lose, any achievement you could gain or success you could win,

being honest is the thing that will build your confidence. And lying will chip away at it. It's time to tell the truth, your truth. Because if your pants are going to be on fire, let's have it be about what matters. because the fire that's inside of you, not because of the lies you tell. The fire for your dreams, your joy, your love, your truth. Burn bright, my friend, because that is woman's work.