This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - The Enneagram And Why It’s All The Rage with Kristi Rowles | 226

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

In this episode, we talk about the Enneagram, which you’ve likely heard about since it’s all the rage right now! Our guest and resident expert is Kristi Rowles, a Mental Health Therapist turned full-time Enneagram Coach. In the Enneagram world, she is known for teaching it in a way that is easy to understand, practical, fun, and driven toward compassion. In her work coaching individuals and couples, speaking, and leading corporate leadership training, people often ask her, “How do I get certified to do what you do?”  So in 2018, she built Enneagram University, where they are committed to transforming Enneagram-and-people-loving humans into the most competent and confident enneagram coaches on the market. The Enneagram is an opportunity to get to know yourself better – to understand your motivations and preferences, give you insights into your behavior and choices, and help to identify paths for growth and development. And because, as women, we have a tendency to be others-focused, I’m going to encourage you to start with and stay with you for a while. Use it for self-reflection. Create deeper levels of understanding and intimacy with yourself. Do the internal work. Connect with Kristi: Discover Your Type Resource: (FREE with code: TIWW) https://www.theenneagramuniversity.com/courses/discover-your-type  Enneagram University Website: https://www.theenneagramuniversity.com/?ref=726257  Free Access To Kristi’s Typing Guide: https://theenneagramuniversity.myflodesk.com/ceced2b5-be34-4ebb-af31-739736b64410  Like what you heard? Please rate and review  Thanks to our This Is Woman’s Work Sponsor: Visit WiseFitWealth.com to get your free budget sheet, some helpful financial planning tips, or to schedule a meeting. And order your Finding Your Financial Type book here! 

I am Nicole Kalil, and you are listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. Maybe because you're an eight on the Enneagram, so it feels like I'm speaking your language. Or maybe you're a one and you appreciate some of the wit. Or a nine and the peacemaker in you is entertained by the revolutionist in me. I truly hope I speak in some way to all of you, regardless of your Enneagram types, but honestly, I'm not so sure because I'm not an expert on the Enneagram or any other personality theories, assessments, or tools, but I'm wildly fascinated by many of them. And I believe them

to be a great resource, not only for self-awareness, appreciation, and growth, but also for understanding and communicating with those in our lives that are wired differently than we are, which let's face it, is most of the people in our lives. And no matter our preferences or styles, it's imperative that we understand what connects us more than what separates or divides us. So we're going to talk about a few of these systems, models, tools, and resources on the show. And today we dive into the Enneagram.

Please note before we do that, that I'm not advocating for any tool to be the end-all be-all of understanding yourself or others. And I'm most especially not advocating that you run around telling other people about themselves or what you think they are without their permission or interest. It's a dangerous game if you think you understand everything there is to know about another person just because you have their results or can guess their type. Rather, let's think of these as breadcrumbs that can lead you to greater understanding, an amazing opportunity to practice curiosity and ask great questions, a conversation

starter among partners, colleagues, and friends who want to improve their communication or work toward a shared goal. There are lots of amazing ways to utilize and leverage the Enneagram. Putting yourself or someone else in a box isn't one of them. Now that I've said my piece, let's learn more about the Enneagram. Our guest and resident expert is Christy Rolls, a mental health therapist turned full-time Enneagram coach. In the Enneagram world, she's known for teaching it in a way that's easy to understand, practical, fun, and driven towards compassion. In her work coaching individuals and couples speaking and leading corporate leadership

trainings, people have often asked her, how do I get certified to do what you do? So in 2018, she built Enneagram University, where they are committed to transforming Enneagram and people loving humans into the most competent and confident Enneagram coaches on the market. Christy, thank you for being here and full disclosure that I have taken the Enneagram and found it to be very accurate, but I only have a very basic understanding of it. So I'm super excited to learn more from you. I'm excited to chat all things Enneagram. Obviously, I could do it all day long. Which I'm excited about, and we're going to shove as much as we can in 30 minutes. I love it.

Let me start with what is probably a very basic or foundational question. What is the Enneagram, and what is it not? Yes, so great. So the Enneagram is a personality typing tool. Some people have it in the realm of Myers-Briggs, disk strength finders, things like that. It's different in some key ways that make it a really different and more powerful tool. So I have always been a personality fanatic since I was little.

I took all the tests, like what color crane are you? And what kind of mac and cheese are you? What coffee cup is yours? Those sort of things. And so I was just a natural lover of things like that. But when I found the Enneagram, it really did unveil parts of myself that I didn't realize were unique to me, that I didn't realize were even happening in the way that I processed information related to people, related to the

world. So it really did change my life. And then when I was working as a mental health therapist, a lot of our clients, we started introducing the Enneagram to them. And it really just became a powerful tool of identity, identity of understanding who we are, of understanding how we relate in relationships and our jobs and what we want out of life, what we really want to avoid in life and all of the things. So one of the things that makes the Enneagram super cool is there's this foundation of core motivation. So it's basically what makes us who we are. And the way that I teach that is there's a core fear and a core desire. And there's a sense of our nervous system that feels like we want to avoid our core fear at all costs.

And so our brain kind of processes, okay, if I can get my core motivation, then I can ensure that I don't experience my core fear. And that keeps me safe. That keeps me thriving. That keeps me happy. And so me thriving. That keeps me happy. And so that's a key part of it. The other part that we can definitely chat about is because a lot of personality typing tools squish us into a box, like that's a lot of what people hate about them, me, myself included. And so the Enneagram really says, here's the whole spectrum of your

personality. This is kind of what you look like on autopilot, but here's what you look like when you are growing, when you're healthy, when you're more developed. And here's what you look like when you're stressed out and really under functioning and not in a super healthy space. And so it really does cast this whole spectrum of who we can be. And that really gives us consent to one notice when we're not doing great, recenter ourselves, and then have a unique path for growth. Because the truth is what is healthy for you is not the same of what's healthy for me. And so having that language and getting more specific is really incredibly eye-opening and so powerful. This is obviously a wild oversimplification for

something that I know is very complex. But is it fair to say that what Enneagram is, I don't know if testing is the right word, but connecting with most are our motivations and the fears underneath them. So this isn't necessarily about like our talent or our personality type. This is about our motivations. Is that fair? A hundred percent. Yes. So it's what's happening under the surface. There could be five of us in the same room and we could all on the outside, look the same, present the present the same even react very similarly but what we're hoping to achieve or what we're hoping to avoid can be completely different so understanding what's driving us this is also why when I work with clients and we say like oh why do I keep doing the same thing over and over why do I

keep relating to people this way why do all my relationships end up like this why do I always end up frustrated at work whatever that may be having insight as to what drives us is life-changing rather than just focusing on behavior, which a lot of other personality typing tools do. This really says, okay, well, you're acting, you might or may not act this way, but what's driving you is this. Great. So I know the Enneagram says you're something between a one through a nine, right? That's kind of how you get identified through it. Would you be able to give us a kind of brief overview of each of the nine so we get a sense of those motivations? And if you're listening and you haven't taken it, you might get a sense of who you are and get excited about taking it.

So is that possible to go through all nine a moment? Absolutely. A short period of time? Okay, great. Yes, let's do it. We'll move through quickly and just know anyone who's listening, this is brief. The Enneagram is a very complex tool, which is awesome. But at the beginning, it's just helpful to kind of pull out.

Like if listeners, if you go through this episode and you just end with like, okay, here's a few types I think I might be, that is a win. And the other thing to know about assessments is it's pretty widely accepted in the Enneagram world that assessments are around 60% accurate on average. And so I always tell people when I'm doing typing sessions with clients, when I train my coaches to do typing sessions, we start with an assessment, but then we take the top four scoring types and then we kind of pull those apart in an individualized typing interview. So it's, yes, take a quiz if you want from a legitimate source, if you will, but then definitely do your research, read into more about them,

listen to the way that we're going to talk about them today and really kind of explore from there. Don't just get married to the type that the test pops out. Makes sense. Okay. So type one. Yes, let's do it. So there are nicknames, by the way, for all of these types. And so I'll share them today.

But again, I always tell people don't get too hung up on them because it's very hard to squish down a very complex human being into like two words. So the nickname that I use for the type ones is the moral perfectionist. So these types, you know, I talked about the thing we're trying to avoid, the thing we're kind of running towards. So I'll start there with all the types just to kind of lay a foundation. So for type ones, they really want to avoid the feeling that they're bad, corrupt, evil, immoral in some sort of way. They feel like if they can do what's right, if they can do what's good, if they can do what's good, what's pure, if they're ethical, then they can avoid those feelings of being bad or corrupt or evil in that way. So these types typically are really self-controlled. They're very sensible,

very logical. They have an incredibly high standard of excellence. And sometimes it's beyond excellent. It's like 100% is not good enough. Like it needs to be 120%. And so it can be pretty hardcore. The other thing that is really important for ones that's unique to them is they have what we call an inner critic. And most of us, especially if you're in the workplace, you're a high achiever. We have an inner critic that comes to our head and, you know, says things like you could have done that better. You could have done this better. But for the type ones, it is kind of relentless. All day, every day, it's just so much more present. It's not like, oh, I turned in a project at the office and I got this feedback and that

was hard. It's like, how do I every moment listen to that inner critic that's kind of, sometimes I've heard ones use the language even of berating me. The pursuit of doing what's good and right is to kind of appease that inner critic. This might not be a fair question, but is there a certain type of role or career or lifestyle that ones gravitate toward? That's a great question. Yeah. So leadership roles, ones have are incredible leaders. They have some vision and they also have an incredible ability to understand details

and to do things at just a higher level than most of everybody else. So leadership for sure. Anything that is based around morals, ethics, things like that is very common for type one. Social justice work is very common for type ones, right? It's about making the world right and righting the wrongs that they see everywhere around them. Um, anything that is really particular, even like an interior designer, um, something like that, that's just really detailed in the nitty gritty can be a very common outlet for type 1s. Okay. That makes sense. I think I know a couple of type 1s. Let's talk type 2. Yes. So we call these the supportive helpers. So these types really don't want to experience

the idea of being unloved, not needed, or feeling replaceable in their relationships. Relationships are literally everything to type 2s. It's how they feel a sense of connection and groundedness. It feels like life is all about love and connection for type twos. So they really desire again, to be loved, to be wanted, also to be seen as selfless. And sometimes for type twos, there is this pull to be needed, but almost in sometimes like, right. And let me just say this. We all have unflattering parts of our types and we have beautiful parts of our types. So I'll just say that sometimes with the type two, and I love a lot of type twos. There can be this, like, I'm going to make sure that you rely on me. I'm going to be your go-to person so that you stay close to me,

right? If you need me, you'll keep me around sort of thing. And so for twos, a lot of their healing work is realizing that people love them regardless of what they do for them, regardless of how they take care of them or don't take care of them. So these types are incredible friends. They are incredible assistants. If we're speaking job-wise, I mean, twos can absolutely be phenomenal leaders as well, very caring leaders. Twos tend to be really great listeners. They tend to be generous. I had a type two client recently say, if I am not curled up on the couch like a pretzel with the person I love, I'm not close enough. So there's not really such thing as too much intimacy for a type two, whereas a lot of other types would be suffocated or overwhelmed by it. For twos, it's like more and more, I love my people. I love that.

Yeah. They tend to sometimes focus so much on other people, taking care of other people, that they lack the ability to tend to themselves. And so again, for type twos, turning that love inward is really important for them. Okay. I feel like I have a great picture of a type two. And I appreciate that you said earlier, there is no good or bad type. I sometimes think people get into that mode when they hear about the different personality assessments that are out there. I just want to reiterate that every type has its amazing, positive, wonderful qualities,

and every type has what I'll just call a shadow side. Is that a fair statement? A hundred percent, yes. Okay. All right. So let's go type three. Type three. So we call these the successful achievers. So threes really fear. They want to avoid this sense of losing, failure, feeling worthless. So one of the things that they really pursue is success. And that can look different for all of them, right? Like sometimes success for a three looks like being the highest performer at a job. Sometimes it looks like having the picture perfect family, right? It can look very different, but for threes, they really feel like, okay, if I can achieve success, if I can be

super valuable, if people admire me, then I'll be okay. Then I'll know that I'm not a failure. So type threes are again, kind of similar to ones in the sense that they're incredibly, they can be incredibly detail oriented and high, high performers. Type ones prioritize perfection over completion. Sometimes threes are more likely to prioritize completion of a task or project over complete, you know, perfection. So there's obviously push and pulls to both of those things, right? So type threes are highly productive people. I mean, it's like a thrill, right? Checking things off their list for ones and threes is really a big deal as well. And so sometimes for type threes, they can be a little emotionally out of touch, especially with themselves, or sometimes be a little bit of a chameleon because it feels like

they walk into a room and they're thinking, okay, who in here do I need or want to impress? And how do I need to present myself in order to do that? So that inner narrative, whereas other people might walk into a room and be like, oh, where's the food? Or like, where's my friends? Or let's have a good time or whatever. Threes really walk in typically and think, who's top dog here and how do I get them to like me? Yeah. Makes sense. And they gravitate, I would imagine, towards maybe entrepreneurship or roles where you can succeed at a really high level. A hundred percent. Yes. And also where success is scalable, right? Like threes are not ones to get a job and be like, I'm happy here. Like I don't need to go anywhere from here. It's like, how do I move up? How do I achieve more goals? They're incredibly goal oriented types.

So threes tend to be leaders. They are great visionaries. And so, you know, both the ability to envision something incredible and produce it and execute it themselves is honestly so impressive. Yeah. Okay. I, again, have a great picture. What about our fours? So fours, we call the romantic individualist. So this is definitely kind of on the other end of the spectrum where threes sometimes lose touch with their own feelings and twos can a little bit as well because they're so – twos are others focused, threes are success focused. Fours tend to be really introspective. So these types really kind of want to resist the sense of being mundane or insignificant.

I don't want to blend in. There's a sense of like, if I'm so normal, then I won't stand out and I'm not unique enough so people may or may not keep me around. There's an abandonment piece with type fours and type sixes that they're kind of dancing between at times. So fours tend to really want to be unique individuals. They want to be their most authentic self. So more than anything else, it's like, who am I really? It's this deep sense of who am I? Who am I becoming? Who have I been? They tend to be

incredibly emotional types. And sometimes, obviously, that can be very intense, especially in a world that doesn't always honor or hold space for that. But these types tend to process their emotions a lot in creative outlets. So they might be artists or dancers or writers or poets or photographers or things like that. So again, all types can be photographers and artists. But force, their internal world is so emotional sometimes that the way that they work it out is in, um, more expressive ways. So incredibly sensitive types, deeply empathetic. One of the types who can literally sit with people while they sob and never be like, Oh my God, I'm so tired of this or I'm bored or like, get over it already. These are not our force. Our force have a deep capacity to sit with pain, their own and other people's, and creates safety in those places. So the flip side of that,

there's a sense of sorrow sometimes for fours. It's just kind of a quiet hum under the surface of feeling like everybody else has something that I don't. Like there's something defective or wrong about me. Everybody else has it figured out. Everyone else isn't lacking, but I am. So there's this kind of tension sometimes that can create envy or jealousy and also grief. And a word that's really common for fours is melancholy. And so that sense of like, oh, I'm just going to sit in my sadness and the depth of me, right? So again, that can be really beautiful

and also can be a little suffocating and self-sabotaging. We've talked a lot about personality styles and motivators. And I think we'd all agree that who we are and how we make decisions impacts literally every aspect of our lives. And that includes our finances. Think about it for a minute. It might not be the money that's in your accounts or the income that you make that's determining your financial situation or your financial future. It's you. And if you're not

aware of your financial type, well, friend, it's likely your unconscious mind that's in the driver's seat of your financial decisions. So here's what you need to do right now. Press pause, go to Amazon and search for the book, Finding Your Financial Type by Chantelle Bonneau CFP and add it to your cart and check out. You need to know your financial type as well as that of anyone you make financial decisions with. And finding your financial type will help you do just that, along with providing some actionable tools to increase your financial awareness and knowledge. Again, finding your financial type is the book.

Amazon is the easiest place to get it. And knowing your financial type is the next best step towards you taking action for your financial future. And now that you've done that, let's head back to the show. I can see that too, when you are high on empathy, it's really hard. I mean, I think in all times, but it feels like things are really heavy out there, right?

And there's a lot of the weight of the world. And I would imagine if that's a low hum, sadness is a low hum and empathy is high, that it would be really easy to tip over in today's day and age. Yeah, 100%. And I had a type four client say to me once that their feelings were so big. She said, if I tell you, it's like an ocean wave that's like going to come on shore and

suck us both out to sea and then we're just going to be lost. Like that is very intense for fours, the emotional experience of existing in a world that is sometimes very, very brutal. Okay. Fives. So we call our fives our investigative thinkers. These are highly analytical people. So fives really want to avoid the feeling of being incapable, incompetent, and also invaded. Fives tend to be really private. They feel oftentimes like I only have so much capacity. And so a lot of how they spend their mental energy is kind of thinking, okay, how much do I have to do today? What is this week going to require of me? How can I kind of withdraw from as much as possible so that I can maintain my

own energy so that I don't get completely depleted. Fives tend to be, like I said, really cognitive people, very analytical, very thoughtful. So where we have fours that are highly emotional, we have fives who are highly analytical. So fives tend to love knowledge. There's no such thing as too much knowledge. And it might be in specific areas, like whatever they do for work. It might be a certain hobby. It might be like gardening just as much as it could be engineering just as much as it could be outer space. Right. So these types sometimes feel almost so much in their head that people can a little bit, have a hard time connecting with them because they, um, are often like they just live in their brains. It's such a safe, beautiful place for them. So the great part of that a lot of times is incredible visionaries. They are incredibly

inventive. The ability for fives to come up with solutions that are really critically thought through and very highly to actually work and solve a problem is incredibly impressive. So of course, one of the things that is difficult for fives being in that space is that, um, you know, people in our world, especially in a professional setting, demand a lot of us. They demand our performance. They demand certain timelines, they demand effort and energy. And sometimes fives feel like I just don't have enough to provide or meet the needs of what is being demanded of me. Nines actually feel a flavor of that too. So we'll talk about that, but there's a little bit of a summary of a five. Yeah. So you had said earlier, the assessment

is kind of step one and it might be 60% accurate. Well, when I took the Enneagram, the five was my second highest and very, very close to my highest. And as you were talking, there is a lot of that that I can relate to. I put it in the category of introversion, but the wanting to be alone, getting stuck in my own head so easily and the love, the absolute joy of problem solving. So there was a lot there. I don't think that five is my primary, but there was a lot that resonated with me. Okay. So let's talk about sixes. So one thing on that before we move on, it is so important. So I mentioned earlier that the enneagram shows our spectrum of personality. So where we are in health and where we are in stress.

So for you, if you're dominant in type eight, the stress type is the type five. So when part of when trained Enneagram practitioners, coaches, um, do typing sessions is understanding how those things are connected. So when I see someone who scores super high in an eight and the five is right behind it, I'm like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. Right. So our, our stress types tend to show up very, very present for us. And so that, yeah, it just makes a lot of sense. Okay. Well, I'm glad to know that I make sense. The five in me appreciates that. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Sixes. So our type of sixes. So this is my dominant type. So we call sixes our loyal guardians. Sixes have, they tend to be incredibly anxious types. Again, all types can have anxiety, but anxiety is

like a buzz under the surface for sixes, just like the melancholy or the sadness is a buzz under the surface for fours. The anxiety and the tension or that like, oh, something might be going wrong. I might not be safe is kind of a buzz for us. So what we are trying to avoid is being completely on our own. There's a sense of if I'm not supported, if I don't have any guidance, if I'm completely on my own in the world, there really is this kind of internal message that the world is a scary place and I may or may not probably don't have the resources that I need to navigate it successfully. And so we tend to be incredibly dependent on other people, not always in a toxic codependent way, but in a just relationships, again, are very important to us, just like they are for twos. So they're different, right?

Sixes do have this thing we call optimal distance where it's like a two wants to be snuggled up like a pretzel and that's still not close enough. Whereas the six, it's like, ah, that's a little close for me. Like I want to be close enough to know that we're secure, but I don't want to be so close that I feel suffocated. So sixes tend to be incredibly responsible. They also love a to-do list because we are very driven and we have this kind of constant pressure it feels like to what are the expectations of me and how do I meet them? Right? So we deeply desire the sense of being safe and secure and grounded, especially in our relationship. So it feels like if I can be there for you, if I can take care of you, if I can be a great team player, if I can be

an incredible problem solver with you, and if you can trust me, then our relationship will be more secure. So sixes tend to be skeptics. We tend to be slow to go all in, but once we go all in, we're incredibly loyal to our people. So that is a huge part about sixes that, you know, trust is really sometimes feels very black and white to sixes. Like if I don't trust you, then I'm just not on your team and I don't really feel that responsible for you per se. But if I do trust you, like I'm all in and I'm obsessed and I'll do whatever you need from me because you matter to me. So the other thing that I'll mention about sixes, and this is one of the things that stood out to me when I was hearing this type six described on a podcast when I first found my type years ago, was we tend to be worst case scenario thinkers. It's like, let me think of the worst thing of how this could go wrong and then prepare myself so that it doesn't catch me off guard. And so on one hand, that makes us incredible for like risk management positions or, you know,

thinking through the details of an event or, you know, whatever. But it can also, again, create that constant buzz of anxiety, tension, uncertainty, and it's just kind of like angsty energy. So I'm going to just say this because it's happening for me. If you're listening and kind of typing all the people in your life, I just want to encourage us all to be careful about that. First and foremost, let's pay attention for who we are in self-discovery. And I'm like, listen, we're all human. We can't help but go, oh, that reminds me of my sister or my friend or my partner.

But let's just be careful that we don't go run and tell people what they are or like, again, put them in a box. So let's move the sevens. Yes. And the whole rule of thumb with Enneagram too is we don't type people, period. And part of that is because I have no idea what your internal world is like. Half the time, we don't even know what our internal world is, let alone someone else's. And I will say a lot of people in my life type me as a type eight, like a lot. And some of the people who were closest to me. And that was very confusing for me because when I listened to the eight, I was like, I wish like that's really dreamy. I want some parts of that. Um, and I do have certain, again, behaviors of the type eight that make me present in that way. But I only know what it's like to live in

my body, to live in my brain and in my heart. And I know that I'm a six on that despite how I present. And so that feels really important and also feels so important to just honor other people's space and self-discovery is vulnerable. So making sure that we invite people in, we share like, this is how I found my type. Here's what it's relating. I'd love to know what you think. Here's a resource for you to go read and let me know what you think rather than kind of stealing that from them. Thank you.

That was beautifully said. Yeah. All right. So type sevens, we call these types our enthusiastic optimists. So these are basically the life of the party. Sevens, they really don't want to miss out on incredible or exciting things. They are trying to constantly avoid the sense of boredom, feeling limited, especially controlled or anyway, like boxed in just makes them want to like bust out. And so

for sevens, it really is about pursuing satisfaction, contentment, and fulfillment, however that might look to them. I talked to a seven once and we were, we were actually, I think we were in a typing session. And one of the things I share about, um, in typing sessions with type sevens is sometimes it feels like in their soul, there's this bucket and it doesn't matter how much they fill in this exciting thing and that adventure and this, that there's a hole in the bottom that it just like, it's never full. They can't ever feel like they're really, truly satisfied. And so it kind of forces them out to like constantly pursue the next energy or the next event, the next adventure, the next exciting thing that is around them. So these types tend to be incredibly optimistic people. And I want to say this too, you know, we talked about fours having

this kind of undercurrent of sadness. Six is having this undercurrent of anxiety. Sevens have this undercurrent of joy. But that doesn't mean that any of us lack the capacity or ability to feel the opposite, right? Fours also feel joy incredibly deeply. Sevens, whether they are, you know, life of the party, super positive vibes, it's all good around here, let's have a blast. They still can feel sadness, but sevens tend to hold that within partially because everyone sees them as the life of the party. So it kind of communicates to them over time that those parts of them aren't really

safe or aren't really welcome. So sevens, um, like I said, they love adventures. They want to do the next thrill. They have a hard time slowing down. They have a very hard time being present. Sometimes, I didn't talk about this before, but there's triads in the Enneagram. So twos, threes, and fours are in what we call the heart center, the heart triad. Center of intelligence is the full lingo for that. Five, sixes, and sevens are in the head triad or the thinking center. And so there's an undercurrent of high cognitive functioning for the fives, sixes, and sevens are in the head triad or the thinking center. And so there's an undercurrent of like high cognitive functioning for the fives, sixes, and sevens that's kind of based on this anxiety. So when the activity or the like jazziness of whatever's happening for the type seven

slows down, they tend to become more aware of this feeling within them of the lack of fulfillment or anxiety. And so it's like, okay, I have to constantly stay stimulated then. So I don't feel that. All I know for sure is that I'm not a seven, but I, I, again, I, you know, people popped into my brain. So, all right, because of time, let's move on to eights and nines. Yeah. So type eights, we call these our protective challengers. So these are types who really don't want to experience being controlled. Like they just don't have it. I'm not having it. No one's the boss of me. They don't want to be harmed. They don't want to feel weak. And so

they tend to be really resistant towards vulnerabilities. They also tend to be like just intense fighters. It's like, I know what I want. I know what I, you know, my goal is or what I want to achieve. And so like no one or nothing is going to get in my way. Threes can have a little bit of that energy, but eights are like, I will literally push you aside if you're in my way. So it's a little bit more intense sometimes, but it doesn't make them bullies. And I think that's really important for us to know because sometimes eights get pegged as being like really aggressive and sure they can be, but a lot of us can be. It's what I like, the language that I use for them is the protective challenger. So they're protecting themselves or they're even

protecting other people. There's no one, like when I think mama bear, I think eight, like this is somebody who does not mess around, don't hurt their people. So these types are really protective. They are, they don't tolerate injustices in the world either. So the difference ones and eights can definitely be social justice workers. Ones tend to have a little bit more of like a, I'm doing this because it's pure and it's the right thing. Whereas eights are like more rebellious energy is part of the motivation, which I'm here for it. So sometimes people that are eights can be intimidating to other people. Eights love a good debate. They don't feel uncomfortable with conflict at all. So sometimes

for eights, there's this kind of like constant hunger for more. Like I want more intensity. I want more thrill. I want more whatever it is. So that said, there is a really soft, squishy part of type eights and those who are really close to them will see that part. But a lot of other people never will get to see those parts. So if you're close with an eight, like there's nothing more beautiful. And so that feels important to mention as well. Yep. Again, I said it on the onset.

When I took the Enneagram, eight was my highest. That felt very on point. Yeah. So, okay. Let's go for the nines. So nines are peaceful mediators, is what we call them. So these types, unlike AIDS, really hate conflict. It makes them physically uncomfortable. Like how can I crawl out of my skin faster? They often will sometimes fear being overlooked or unaccepted, kind of dismissed. Sometimes nines will say like,

I fear when I leave the room, people don't even notice that I'm gone. And so that part is like, if you love a nine, anytime that you can help them feel seen is just so important. So for nines, they really, because they want to avoid being unaccepted, um, conflict, all those things, they tend to go along to get along quite a bit. Uh, they tend pursue peace. That sometimes means that they withdraw themselves or it feels like, who even am I? A three can have that identity crisis because they're like, okay, well, I've shifted to this person. I shifted to that person. For a nine, it's more like, I literally just don't know. I don't know what my feelings are. I don't know what my opinions are. A lot of the work for the nines is developing a sense of self. Idea so idea for nines, a language that we use a lot

is like they're asleep. They're asleep to their own needs, their own desires, their feelings, what they want out of life, how to get there. So sometimes they wind up feeling really powerless or like they don't really matter. So the beautiful thing about nines, they are incredible mediators sometimes in conflicts, especially if it's not them involved. But they don't love that role, but they are great at it. They also tend to be incredibly lighthearted, laid back, accepting, kind, thoughtful. They just bring a sense of groundedness to the environment that makes them incredibly lovable and precious to have around. So there's not really many nines in life that people don't like. They're just really likable people. Christy, that was wildly impressive. You went through all nine.

And I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on understanding, obviously very base level, but a good level. So if, well, at least I would imagine the next step for somebody listening who wants to learn more is to take the Enneagram to figure out their type. But once you've done that, what are some of the best next steps to learn more? Yeah, great question. So there's a ton of books out. I actually have several friends who have authored books. They're available on Amazon. So check those out and definitely buy from a woman, right? Like there's a lot of female authors out there. So love that. And so there's some great options. There's also more podcasts you can also work with if you

want. At Enneagram University, we have professors who see clients one-on-one. They can be students at EU or they can just be random people who are like, oh my gosh, I need to find my type. I need help. Or I know my type, but I really want to dive in deeper. So that is an option as well. You could hire an Enneagram coach and, um, yeah, there's, there's a lot of places to learn more, but I would just say bite off little tiny pieces at a time, especially when you're just trying to find your type, because sometimes the more you read, the more you see parts of yourself in them. And so what I would say to people who are listening is if you listen through, maybe even listen back a second time and kind of rate them like, okay, I connect with the type one,

like a three out of 10. I connect with a type two, an eight out of 10, like just kind of objectively measure them out. And then you'll, it'll be a little bit easier to see which ones rise to the surface that you want to dive in deeper. So those are some options. We also have a course on Enneagram University on the website. If anybody wants check that out. It's just a presentation I've taught around the world at a whole bunch of different events to really help people find their type too. So that would be an option as well. Okay. So I know that you probably want to go get your type right away as you're listening. So go to theenneagramUniversity.com and there is a Discover Your Type resource that you can get for free with the code TIWW. We'll put all of that in show notes.

But again, the EnneagramUniversity.com and then go to the Discover Your Type resource and use code TIWW to get it for free. Christy, thank you so much. This was fascinating. Yay, absolutely. Yeah, and that's a $99 value, which is great. So I hope you guys enjoy it. Shoot me an email. Tell me what type you think you might be. Let me know if you have questions, but thanks for having me. Obviously, I could talk about it all day. It's so fun. It's changed my life, my client's life, and it's just, I just love to nerd out. So thanks for having me on. I am right there with you. Thanks for being

with me. Okay. So let me close out with a loving reminder that whether you're a one, a nine, or anything in between, it is all good. There is no bad type to be and no type that is better or worse than the other. This is about getting to know yourself better, understanding your style and your preferences, giving you insights into your motivation and your choices, and helping to identify paths for growth and development. And because as women, we do have a tendency to be others-focused, I'm going to encourage you to start with and stay with yourself for a while. Use it for self-reflection. Create deeper levels of understanding and intimacy with yourself. Do the internal work,

allow it to help you know who you are, own what you're not, and choose to embrace all of it. After all, that's the work of confidence. And then, once you've spent lots and lots of time with yourself, start thinking about how it can bring understanding and growth to your relationship with others. Know thyself. This is woman's work.