This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - The No-BS Fitness Strategy That Actually Works (That You’ve Probably Been Overlooking) with Dr. Milica McDowell | 407

Starting point is 00:00:00 It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent. WestJet, where your story takes off. Amazon presents Laura versus fruit flies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen. These little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say, yo.

Starting point is 00:00:30 chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies. Your baby boom ends here. Save the everyday with Amazon. If you love the show, the best way to keep it going is simple. Share it, rate it, and support the sponsors who support us. I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means. what it looks and what it feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And like it or not, we cannot redefine women's work without redefining what it means to take care of our own bodies. I mean, how we look has got to be in the top three outdated definitions that we need to take back control over, individually and collectively. For far too long, our bodies and what we do with them

Starting point is 00:01:34 have been scrutinized, judged, standardized, and socialized, and we've wasted an abnormal amount of time and energy focused on doing whatever diet and whatever exercise happens to be in, in an effort to create whatever body society currently deems attractive. Oh, but don't worry, by the way, it'll change once you've invested all of your time, money, and sweat equity. Let's take exercise as an example. In my lifetime alone, we're talking jazz exercise, Taibo, Pilates, running,

Starting point is 00:02:03 bar strength training with at least one million failed attempts at other things in between all of that. And at some point, I decided that if movement didn't leave me drenched, sore, and borderline questioning my life choices, that it didn't count. If it wasn't intense, optimized, tracked, and miserable, then it wasn't real exercise. I bought into that fully. So walking, please. That's what you did when you were on a rest day or when you were with your mom. or when you forgot your gym shoes and needed to pretend you still did something. Meanwhile, my body, the one I'm actually living this life in, has always loved walking. The fresh air, the mental clarity, the ideas that show up out of nowhere, the conversations

Starting point is 00:02:48 that somehow go deeper when you're side by side instead of face to face. And it turns out the thing I dismissed as not enough might actually be exactly what I need. So my question is this. What if we've been overlooking one of the most powerful, accessible, effective tools for our health and longevity? Because it doesn't feel impressive enough to post about. Because it doesn't give us rock hard abs, doesn't need to be timed, or whatever else someone outside of us deems important. What if redefining women's work also means trusting what actually works for our bodies instead of what we've been told we should do and what will work? So we're getting into all of that today with Dr. Melissa McDowell,

Starting point is 00:03:34 doctor of physical therapy, former university faculty and human performance, and a nationally recognized speaker who spent decades studying how movement impacts everything from pain to longevity. She's co-author of the book, Walk, Rediscover the most natural way to boost your health and longevity one step at a time, and she's here to challenge what we've been told, or haven't been told about walking, from the 10,000 step myth to why your feet might be telling you more

Starting point is 00:04:04 about your health than you realize. Melissa, welcome to the show, and I want to start by asking for anyone who, like me, has been conditioned to believe that if it's not hard or intense, that it doesn't count. So what have you learned about the real benefits of walking and in what ways is it actually effective? Thanks for having me, Nicole.

Starting point is 00:04:25 I'm so excited to talk about this topic, with you and the listeners, walking has been overlooked for a long time. And you nailed it when you did our introduction today. If we're not getting super sweaty, it's not complicated, you don't have to wear a special outfit. We don't deem an activity as enough. And I think it really is one of those scenes that as women. We hear that all the time. You're not enough unless you're doing this. You're not enough unless you're doing that, unless you're frazzled and running around and, you know, getting that VP title or whatever those goals may be. So, it is, it is this return to a movement that is slow, a movement that is rhythmic, a movement you don't

Starting point is 00:05:04 have to learn how to do that your body physiologically wants and needs for its optimal health and your longevity. So what's exciting about walking is when you walk, as you mention, your mood changes, your cognitive clarity improves, creativity is shown to improve. We drive a ton of blood flow and all sorts of wonderful hormones to our brains and our brains, wake up and they're like, hey girl, let's go. It's this way that we can get a reset in our day. And on top of all those mental benefits, there's all kinds of physical health benefits as well. The hot girl walk of 2023 is coming back this year. And what's exciting about it is it is a way to boost your confidence. It is a way to connect with a loved one. And then there's all sorts of musculoskeletal benefits as well.

Starting point is 00:05:51 Okay, so what would you say to the person who's like, okay, great, but I need to fill in the blank. I need to go to yoga. I need to strength train. I need to, is this, I don't know if additive is the right word. That's not my intention. But is this something that we use to balance out other things or is walking our primary most beneficial movement? It's a yes and. So if you're a pickleballer, you're a Pilates gal, you're a You like to tie bow, you want a kickbox, you're a marathon runner. Absolutely yes and walk, please. And you can use walking for that recovery day, especially if you are someone who engages in higher intensity activity. But if you're somebody who doesn't do those things, you don't pickleball, you don't CrossFit, you don't Pilates. It is the activity that you can insert into your lifestyle,

Starting point is 00:06:43 choose it as a radical type of self-care, and use it to improve how you feel today and how you'll live tomorrow. One of the things you talk about in your book that is very interesting and also freaks me out a little bit is that our feet can predict things like fall risk and even longevity. So what are our feet telling us that we're not paying attention to? And the reason I'm scared by that is because I have not taken very good care of my feet. I wore uncomfortable heels for far too long and I have some feet pain and all of that. So what do we need to know about our feet and what it's telling us about our health? So feet are a predictor of your overall health. If you look down at your beautiful bare feet and you see bumps and lumps and red marks and maybe they're numb or tingling, they are trying to tell you a story. And oftentimes that story is, as you mentioned, a result of footwear choices. There's a phenomenal research study that came out in 2018 telling us that over 60% of adults are wearing the wrong size shoe. So my gals out there, if you're

Starting point is 00:07:48 you think you've been an eight since high school, pre-pregnancy, post-pregnancy, pre-baby, post-baby, act and forth, my guess is that more than half of you are no longer an eight. So I would highly recommend getting a professional shoe measurement every year because feet change, even though you stop growing vertically. Your feet can lengthen, they can widen, they can shorten, and that is a result of muscle, growth or decrease. It's a result of hormones. It can be a result of medications. And so if you take nothing else away from listening today, please go get your feet measured. And so when we do have feet issues, bumps, lumps, hammer toes, bunions, pain, our feet are telling us things that are early warning signs of other problems.

Starting point is 00:08:31 And you did hit the nail on the head. Strength in your foot is a predictor of fall risk. And it also is a predictor of death risk. Because we know, particularly in women, if you're over 70 and you fall, that really increases death risk. The secret is in your big toe. And so our big toe flexor, the muscle that allows us to push the big toe down into the ground, is this keystone muscle that when we muscle test it, we're able to identify is your right equal to your left? And are you able to create about 10% of your body weight in force? If you are good to go, foot strong, that's amazing. If you have a significant difference right versus left, that can be a warning sign of some imbalances. And if we see individuals who can't press down with that 10% of body weight, it's definitely something that is an early warning sign and we can intervene. There's a ton of exercises. There's all kinds of fun little exercises. We call them movement snacks, little things you can interspers throughout the day. So you can stop the decline and make that foot strong. We like to say that the movement snacks are like having a personal trainer for your feet.

Starting point is 00:09:39 Okay, first of all, I love the term movement snacks. I'm stealing that. It's so good. Yes. And is walking. one of the ways that we can strengthen our big toes and our feet. So absolutely, if you are walking in a healthy shoe. So there's a caveat there because if you're clomping around in the Jimmy Chews or those horrible Balenciaga things that look like, you know, a monster eight half of your foot, if you're in a narrow toe box, if you're in a high heel, I like to say stilettos are the new smoking, right? You are putting your foot at a disadvantage. You're reducing your ability to balance and catch yourself if you do stumble and fall. And so walking, yes, trains your feet,

Starting point is 00:10:21 makes them stronger, but you have to be in a shoe that is healthy for your foot. Okay, I want to dive into this shoe conversation. I know you have something in the book that you call the 24-hour foot clock. Before I do, it's fascinating to me as you were talking about most of us wearing the wrong size. I'm sure, I know I haven't gotten my size checked in a really long time, so I'm going to do that. but I'm also quite sure that I wore the wrong size purposely. And I'm thoroughly embarrassed for myself, my 20-something-year-old, 30-something-year-old self, who thought that my fucking shoe size mattered.

Starting point is 00:10:58 Like, I wore a five and a half or six because small feet were bad. I don't even know. And it's like horrifying. I can't even believe that I got duped into this size matters in shoe size. I mean, in all of it is stupid. But in shoe size, it's really exceptionally dumb. Anywho, talk to us about the 24-hour foot clock. What does that actually mean?

Starting point is 00:11:21 And how should we be thinking differently about what we put on our feet throughout our day? Yes. So just like Beyonce, we all have 24 hours a day. You know, I love that saying. It's like, I'm so busy. Well, she's got 24 hours too, right? So if you think of a pie chart, and that's 24 hours, during those 24 hours, a third or more be barefoot, right? So when you're sleeping, most of us are barefoot.

Starting point is 00:11:46 If you wear socks during, you know, for temperature at night, it can bring your toes together and your feet don't really have a chance to get into their natural splayed position. And a position of splay is when we can see a little bit of daylight between each of the toes. That means that we've used the muscles in the foot to open up that space. So I would highly recommend, if possible, if temperature allows, sleeping barefoot. So then when we think about that shoe clock, if we're talking about, you know, a third or more of our day being sleeping, we're barefoot. If you're at home, be barefoot if you can be. So now we're adding a few more hours, right? Maybe we're pushing up to almost 50% of the day being barefoot. Modern humans

Starting point is 00:12:24 leave the house a lot, right? And our environments are hard and they're unsafe. You might be walking in grass. There could be a piece of glass, you know. So I don't recommend running around barefoot in environments that have risk. If you are able to be in a grassy field that is safe and doesn't have debris, if you're close to a beach, those sorts of things. Those are awesome opportunities for your feet to have sensory inputs on the bottom of the foot. You've got hundreds of thousands receptors there that are screaming for information. And then it also strengthens your foot when you're barefoot. So if you can get to around half the day or more without shoes on, that's a huge win. So I would say that's goal number one. Then we assess the rest of your day. We actually interviewed

Starting point is 00:13:07 a flight attendant from a major airline that we can't disclose. in our book, and we asked her about the uniforms that flight attendants wear. We know that this is not just reserve for flight attendants. This is women and men in many professions that require a specific type of shoe, style of shoe, the military, you know, uniform shoes, those sorts of things. If you're someone who has to wear a certain type of shoe because of your profession, what we want to do is when we think about that 24-hour shoe clock, how many hours are you in that one? You know, are you in that shoe for eight hours, 10 hours, 12 hours? What can you do to counteract it if you have to wear what we call a fancy shoe, like a traditional shoe? And then the other part of the shoe clock is if you're

Starting point is 00:13:47 able to get into the types of shoes we call functional or minimal. So a functional shoe is going to have a few criteria. It has a wide toe box. It is shaped like a foot. So if you're wearing shoes right now while you're listening to the podcast, maybe some of you are out walking. That's even more bonus points. go ahead and look down at the toe box of the footwear you're wearing. If it is tapered, it looks like an arrow or a point. That is a narrow toe box. If it's wide and it looks like your foot, that's a wide toe box. A wide tow box shoe is a more healthy choice, a healthier choice.

Starting point is 00:14:20 And it also is what we call a functional shoe. A functional shoe is a wide toe box. It's got a lower heel-to-to-to-drop, meaning there isn't as much difference of the foam below the heel as below the toe. And it's going to be less cushioned. So those of you who are wearing mega shoes, and I could list off the brands, and you guys all know them, you know, the super duper cushioned shoe, super giant pillow shoe, those shoes are taking away the sensory information that you get from the ground you're walking on. They create some instability. And so you want to be careful as you're assessing your 24-hour shoe clock. Are you choosing traditional shoes? Are you having to wear a uniform shoe? Can you spend some time in a more functional shoe, which is that wider toe box lower drop or less cushion and or are you able to go to a minimal shoe and a minimal shoe is the shoe with a wide toe box zero drop so your heel and your toe are at the same level there's

Starting point is 00:15:14 no height under your heel and then very little to no cushion it's a shoe that you could take and you could twist it almost like you're wringing water out of a towel so that's how you would do the shoe clock and it's a fun exercise I'd encourage everybody to try it assess your 24 hours think about you know the parts of the pie that you're wearing those shoes throughout the day and then if you are someone who's required to wear a uniform shoe, then we talk about, all right, well, what do you do to counteract that? RBC Training Ground has discovered potential in over 20,000 Canadian athletes and counting. Your story could be next.

Starting point is 00:15:46 If you've got the drive, they'll help you find your path to the Olympics. Let's see what you've got. Sign up for free at rBC trainingground.ca. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $24.50 an hour. Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields like software development and information technology. Learn more at about amazon.ca. I can't say I'm totally surprised about barefoot, but I am surprised about the less cushion because I think we think the more cushiony, the softer, the better they feel. in the moment, you know, the better they are for our feet. And so I don't want to put brands on

Starting point is 00:16:46 blast, but let's do the reverse. Are there any types of shoes that you find to be generally great brands or great shoes, counting the fact that some of us want or need to be somewhat fashionable when we're out and about? Yes, for sure. For sure. Yes, absolutely. So some of the brands I like that are considered a more functional shoe. So they have a wide toe box, less of that stack, right? Your heel isn't super popped up. Ultra running is a great shoe for walking and running. I love that shoe. That brand is doing a great job technology and innovation-wise. Topo Athletic is another shoe that is kind of same. And these are more sport shoes. You wouldn't wear these with a dress by any means. I mean, you might. I wouldn't. You know, it's more of a sporty

Starting point is 00:17:32 shoe. And another one is called notase, an O-T-A-C-E. That's another functional shoe. And then when we talk about more minimal shoes, again, the criteria. for a minimal shoe, wide toe box, zero to toe, zero heel to toe drop completely flat, minimal cushion and twistable. There's some really fun brands out there. Vivo Barefoot is a brand that does an amazing job. They've got everything from streetwear to almost like a snow boot to cute shoes. There's a ballerina flat coming out this year, ladies, that I would get your hands on as soon as it drops. That's a brand that I love. I love the brand Wildlings. I'm actually wearing a pair of Wildling shoes right now. They have some really cute kind of street styles, again, more of a fashion shoe. And there's a brand

Starting point is 00:18:15 that's from Mexico that's a sleeper. And it's called O-R-I-G-O, or Rigo. And they're handmade by artisans in Leone, and they are absolutely gorgeous shoes. And they are a wide-to-box, and they're like a women's or men's dress shoe. So you can get a Mary Jane, like some sneakers, some different types of loafers. They do boots. And so those are some that I really think are worth examining and checking out. For those of you who are more budget conscious, get on Amazon and look up Witten, W-H-I-T-I-N. That brand, you can get a pair of functional shoes for $30 and try them out and see how it works into your lifestyle. The biggest thing that we teach in the book is when we have those three criteria types of shoes, we have traditional shoes, functional shoes, and minimal

Starting point is 00:19:02 shoes. You have to earn the right to go down the spectrum. So if you're someone who's been wearing high heels, you've been wearing a super cushioned shoe, you know, like a Brooks, a Hoka, a Nike, those types of traditional shoes. If you want to change to a more functional shoe, you kind of have to go back and forth because if you just go cold turkey, all of your tissue is going to get upset. Then if you go from a functional shoe to a minimal shoe, and you guys maybe remember the five fingers barefoot shoes from years ago, people would get those and they'd go, oh, they'd go, oh, they'll run 10 miles in them. And guess where they would end up in the physical therapist and the chiropractor's office because your tissue hasn't really adapted and earned the right

Starting point is 00:19:39 to go into a minimal shoe. So we talk about moving down that spectrum from traditional to functional, dabbling and minimal, going back to traditional, going back to functional, back and forth, until your body kind of tells you what's working for you. Fascinating stuff and also one of the few episodes where we just encouraged us all to go shoe shopping. So I'm very excited about that. Okay, my next question is you say in the book that walking is a key pillar of health on par with things like sleep and nutrition, which I think we talk about a lot and prioritize. So my question is why is something that's so foundational, so historical, and we have so much evidence. Like we think of the blue zones. None of them are like gym focused or particular exercise.

Starting point is 00:20:26 It's all walking and movement. Yes. Why has something so foundational been so overlooked in your experience? So I think walking is overlooked because it's just so obvious and it's right in front of us and it feels like you're not getting much bang for your buck. There's no social media account. There's not a proper hashtag. Nobody has a multi-gazillion dollar marketing budget for walking. We have that for running. We have that for pickleball. We have that for Crosfit. We have that for every gym known the man. Soul cycle. Peloton. You name it. Dollars, dollars, dollars, dollars, dollars signs. Nobody's putting that behind walking yet. I would say, No one's putting that behind walking yet. And so there is a movement coming, I believe. And I think

Starting point is 00:21:09 Courtney and I, my co-author of the book, we are very much on the front end of the ones like shouting from the mountaintops, hey, come along with us. Let's go do this thing together. And so I do think it's overlooked because we have gotten into that hustle culture and that biohacking culture. What's your whoop score? What's your aura ring say? You know, what's your Apple Watch telling you about when you should menstruate or when you're going to have sex. Like, it's all just like getting a little bit ridiculous. And so I think it's just opportunity to take back something that 98% of the population has access to do, right? We definitely recognize there are some people who don't walk for various reasons. There's all sorts of other activities they can participate in to help boost their

Starting point is 00:21:53 cardiovascular health, connect with their communities. But when we are talking about people who do have the ability to walk, it's that connection, person to person, person to person, person to community. It's that activity that is actually easy for most of us. And so it does really reduce some of the participation barrier because if we want to go play a pickleball on the coal, we need two more people. We need a bunch of equipment and we have to book a court because everybody known to man is pickleballing. If we want to go CrossFit, we need a membership, we need skills. We need to be fearless because it's kind of terrifying. And so when you think about walking, it's one of those things where it's like, hey, do you want to come with me on a walk? It's an opportunity for a connection.

Starting point is 00:22:34 It's an opportunity to lift someone else up, to listen to their story, to support them. The rhythmic nature of walking with somebody creates connection on so many different levels, calming our neurologic systems, helping boost that interactivity that we're all seeking right now in challenging times. And I just think that it's right in front of us. We just need to unlock it. We need to be specific and give people a permission slip to do it, right? And we also need to give people some guardrails and parameters of how to do it well. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:09 And I do want to talk about that because I have a feeling somebody is listening and is like, timeout, I'm getting my 10,000 steps. Is 10,000 steps the right, I don't know, ideal, or is it a myth? like talk to us about the 10,000 steps and also is there an ideal, I don't know if metric is the right word, but something we should be striving toward. Yes, step count. Step count is a fun one to talk about because I love to think of it like a salad bar. There's something for everyone, right? 10,000 steps. It's a myth. Throw it out with last year's music you were listening to that you're over. The song of the summer 2025, we're not listening to it anymore. 10,000 steps is a

Starting point is 00:23:53 hangover from the 1960s, and it was from a Japanese pedometer marketing campaign that was launched following the Tokyo Olympics. And there was this huge called action in Japan for health and being well and moving in community, and everyone was really inspired. And a pedometer company, the old school pedometers that have like a little ticker, and every time you take a step, it goes click, click, click. A pedometer company named the device a Monko Pay, which is 10,000 step meter, And when you hit 10,000, the thing reset to zero. And that's where it came from. So all of you who are listening who feel pressure, who feel like that is the benchmark, who feel like if you don't do 10,000, you're failing. I want to unlock this for you. 10,000 steps is a bunch of horseshit. So there are no

Starting point is 00:24:43 scientific studies that support 10K. There are no studies that say you absolutely have to do all of this in one bite. So let me unpack that for everyone. The absolute basic basis, If you are sedentary, if you've had a surgery, if you are coming back from injury, if you have been in a terrible car accident, I mean, Courtney, my co-author and I were both clinicians. I've worked with people with burns, amputations, spinal cord injury, you know, devastating life-changing injuries. If you're coming back from not walking for any reason, $2,500 is a basement. Please get there. And within our book, we have three programs. And the first program is called base. And it is for those who are not walking $2,500. $2,500 is where you start to unlock health benefit. If you're below 2,500, I am telling you as true as I said here, your death risk is astronomical. Cardiovascular disease, stroke, cancers, all the death risks that come with depression and anxiety, all the mental health sides of things, suicidality, you name it. If you're under 2,500, honey, we've got to figure something out. Now, here's the wonderful news. If you're someone who's below 2,500, and that's your first benchmark, we can do that by adding

Starting point is 00:25:52 micro walks, which are five minutes or 500 steps. You could do that twice a day. You can incrementally work your way up. And I have definitely worked with people who are under 2,500. It is life changing. You get them to 2,500. So, no, that's a very important thing. And is this 2,500 every day? Average, yep, every day. So if you walk 4,000 one day and the next day is more sedentary, you're just looking for that average across the week of 2,500. And if you're new or returning back to walking after layoff for a various reason, you can take rest days and do nothing. thing, right? Maybe do some breathing exercises, some foam rolling, something else. But we want to average, we want to average 2,500. Now, if you're at 2,500, and you'll give me five minutes, 500 steps,

Starting point is 00:26:34 I can guarantee you, we will reduce your risk of dying, all cause mortality, by 7%. So if you go from 2,500 to 3K, you just reduce your risk of death by 7%. Massive studies, multi-year, multi-center, hundreds of thousands of people, excellent science, If anybody wants a copy of the article, send me an email. My website will be attached to all these things. I'm happy to provide it to anyone that wants to read the science. Big time, a plus five-star research that absolutely demonstrates adding five minutes reduces risk of dying by 7%.

Starting point is 00:27:09 But you add 1,000, you're going to reduce your risk of dying by 15%. So if we can get you up to 3,500 steps a day and you're going to live, let's say, the average women lives to late 70s, I've just added a couple years to your life, a couple of years of spending time with your kids, a couple years of spending time with your grandkids, of contributing to society, of walking the dog. And to me, that is just foundational. Our book is being published in the UK as well. And we go over there to London, which is phenomenal. We get to meet with the folks from Penguin Random House who are just amazing women. And they are positioning this as a public health opportunity for us to change the public health

Starting point is 00:27:50 in their country with this information. And Courtney and I wrote the book because we wanted to help more people. You know, you can only see so many patients in a day. You can only, you know, teach so many students. And so we really saw this as a way to get that information to a wider audience. Now, those of you who have depression and anxiety currently, issues in the family, predisposed to it, what have you. If we get you walking 5,500, it reduces your depression symptoms.

Starting point is 00:28:17 If we get you to 7,500, it reduces lifetime risk. of developing depression. If you have dementia in the family, walking 3,800, 3,900, excuse me, reduces your lifetime dementia risk by 25%, walking 9,800. So here's the one that's the closest to 10K. If you're around 9800 daily, that reduces risk of dementia by 50%. There's data for cancers. There's data for musculoskeletal. There's data for gut health. We've got, there's like a salad bar, like it's like a menu in a restaurant of all of these different step counts. And it's all about finding what works for you. There's more to life than finding the perfect car.

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Starting point is 00:29:50 I love it because then we can kind of pick from the salad bar and build off of it. And, you know, all of those things are important to me. But I do have dementia in my family and it scares the shit out of me. And so I literally wrote down 3,900 and I give myself a, like something that matters to me. And then I can build from there. Okay. So you mentioned the mental and emotional and the relationship sides. of walking. So I would venture a guess that it's done best outdoors and sometimes with people.

Starting point is 00:30:28 What are your thoughts on treadmills? Is it better than nothing? Is it, forget it, just get outside. What are your thoughts? I love a treadmill. And a treadmill is wonderful because it's safe. You know, I travel a ton for work. I've been to all 50 states. I go in various countries. I travel alone a lot. There's times where I don't want to go for a walk in the place that I have been put in a hotel. So a treadmill is something where you are able to control your environment and be very safe. It's also wonderful for people returning from injury, surgery. If you have foot pain, knee pain, low back pain, you name it, the belt's cushioned. So it's going to be more forgiving than walking outdoor.

Starting point is 00:31:04 So I love a treadmill as a way to get into an outdoor walking program if you have access to a treadmill. Another thing that's phenomenal about a treadmill, you can stop whatever you want. You know, it's like if you're going on a walk and it starts raining, you're screwed. And so it is one of those things where it has so much utility if you have access to one. In our book, we talk about ways to be good at walking. And this is a question I get often asked during interviews and things. How do I walk better? How do I know if I'm doing it right?

Starting point is 00:31:30 Whatever. Everyone walks differently because we're all different heights, different leg length, different speed. Maybe some of us have differences of limbs, all those sorts of things. One flips longer than the other. One muscle is weak or what have you. But universally, our goal for every single person who walks, is to be efficient, be an efficient walker. So I am a total creeper in airports.

Starting point is 00:31:53 If you ever see me in an airport, come say hi, please. But I'm a total creeper because I am busy watching people walk. I am assessing their shoes, and yes, I'm judging you if you're wearing stilettos in an airport, because that is dumb. Same, especially if you're dragging a bag. But I'm watching people walk because I'm fascinated by gait. And you can really learn a lot about someone and assess, are they happy? Are they sad? Are they hustling?

Starting point is 00:32:15 Are they slow? Are they carrying a baby? Are they carrying a backpack? Like, what do you learn about somebody watching them walk when they don't realize they're being observed, right? And you can also see the people who are struggling walking. Maybe they have a little bit of a limp. You see that like torso shift. Maybe they're catching one foot. Maybe you can hear a foot that scuffs. That's just an inefficient gate pattern. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it means there's opportunity to improve. And so we love to teach individuals, especially when we talk about a treadmill, get on a treadmill, Walk, do not have music going, and listen to your gait pattern. Does it sound equal? One, two, one, two. Does it sound imbalance? One, two, one, two. Do you hear a scuff? Do you hear something that sounds not equal side to side? And then treadmills are wonderful for walking drills to boost your efficiency. So in the book, we say, walk taller, walk softer, and walk faster as three drills, which are really fun to unpack. And then another one that's amazing on a treadmill is walking backwards. And people are always shocked that we're like walking backwards, that sounds unsafe. On a treadmill, you can hold

Starting point is 00:33:19 on to the handrails. And so it's a great way to introduce walking backwards. Walking backwards, if you are someone who struggles with knee pain or low back pain, there are phenomenal research studies supporting backwards walking as part of your walking in order to start firing muscles in different patterns, emphasizing different muscle control, offloading those painful joints. You'll be shocked. If you're someone who struggles with knee pain and you're like, I don't want to walk, it makes my knees worse. Go ahead and start with forward walking, switch to backward in a safe environment. Treadmill or, you know, walking around a track is actually great backwards because there's no potholes or, you know, things, different obstacles. And then switch back to forward walking and see how you feel. So I'm a huge fan of a treadmill.

Starting point is 00:33:58 I would much rather people walk than don't. And for all those reasons I just mentioned, safety, you know, being able to ramp up, playing with drills. I love a treadmill walk. Okay. Great. Good to know. because I think my favorite way of doing it is outside with somebody, but that's not always feasible or reasonable. So good to know there. You mentioned earlier, and I couldn't agree more, that I'm just going to put it all under the biohacking umbrella that it's gotten a little ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:34:23 And so for the person listening, like me, who sometimes is like I don't have the time or the energy for one more thing. So my question is, any tips on the most realistic, the most approachable, the most helpful ways. to start, to incorporate, to walk, you know, without having it feel like this one more extra thing. Yes. I'm a mom. My daughter is now in college, but I'm a dance mom. So there is glitter and eyelash glue still everywhere in my environment. I wouldn't have it any other way. Those gals out there, you're running kids, you're picking bodies up, you're here, you're there, you're doing all the things. When you are

Starting point is 00:35:04 waiting for somebody in the drop-off line, soccer, dance, pick up your husband at the airport, whatever's happening in your life, that's a chance. That's a chance to sneak in a walk. Five minutes. Five minutes can change how you're feeling, creativity, reduces your blood pressure, improves your circulation, helps with gut motility. If you're somebody who's struggling with blood sugar, it's an amazing way to assist your pancreas and helping to get blood or sugar out of your blood. So, sneak a walk, just squeeze her right in there. Be brave. Be fierce. Be unapologetic. And take that five minutes for you. The other thing I love is a walk and talk. And so a beautiful, a beautiful activity is to call a loved one while you're walking. If you are in leadership, in a business, I challenge all of you

Starting point is 00:35:51 listening right now, give permission to your teams to walk and talk. We don't all need to be sitting in front of Zoom. Yes, some of us talk about confidential things. That's not an appropriate time to walk and talk. But if you're doing a stand-up, a team catch-up, a shoot, even an interview, you name it, take that person for a walk, See if they can keep up. Maybe it's a nice way to weed out the week. But I would really encourage those of you listening who are in positions of leadership, give permission for walk and talk. So sneak them in when you're waiting for things, drop off, you name it.

Starting point is 00:36:22 And then call a loved one and get on the phone with them while you're walking and talk. And if you're in a safe environment where you can wear headphones and that sort of thing. And those of you who are in business, I just would love for you to change that narrative and give people the permission to walk and talk meetings. You know, I'm so glad that you said that, one of my best friends, almost every time I talk to her, she's out walking. I love it. And almost every time she's out walking, I end up going out walking because I'm like inspired by her breathing heavy. I'm like, I'm not going to just sit here or not, you know.

Starting point is 00:36:52 Right. And I also think of two, those underdesk treadmills that they have now. Walking pad. Thank you. Walking your dog. I love my dog for so many reasons. But one of the initial reasons we got him was because I was like, that will give me a legitimate reason to get out there. I guess as you were saying that, there are just so many

Starting point is 00:37:13 little opportunities. And what I love about walking that I dismissed in the past is that it can be done in five minutes. It can be done here or there. It can be done seven times in one day and fit in between things. Whereas most of the other exercises that are being thrown on our face at a regular basis, it's like an hour, plus, you know, the drive time, plus the getting ready, plus you have to shower after. And it's like, all right, every day, that's a two-hour decision. It's a big commitment. Minimum in most cases.

Starting point is 00:37:45 And I'm paying somebody and all the things. So thank you for being here for doing this incredible work for reminding us and reinforcing and having all of the data and the medical research to back it up, that movement is movement and walking is probably the best place for any of us to start. Melissa, thank you. So appreciative of you being here today. It's my pleasure. And I'm really excited to share what she looks like.

Starting point is 00:38:12 This is our beautiful girl. She's launching May 5th. What's fun about the book is there's some special stories of the little avatars on there. This is my dog who passed away in 2025. So she is being honored on the cover of the book. Her name was Olive. And then our patient, our person right here that has a prosthetic leg is a client that Dr. Conley and I shared who was injured in a plane crash.

Starting point is 00:38:35 So we have some really. special tributes throughout the book. And so I would love to share this work with everyone. As you said, it's science-based. There's 300 research studies in there. There's some really heartwarming patient stories. There's some really funny things that if you're a woman in your 40s, you're going to be like, is that a nice ice baby reference? Yes, it is. So it's lighthearted. It's designed to be something that is just going to inspire you. And I really, I would love to take a walk with everyone listening. I love that so much. Okay, I'm going to remind you, the book, again, is called Walk. For those of you who couldn't see it, it's gorgeous. And you can buy it, of course, on Amazon or whatever it is you buy books. But let's keep our local bookstores in business. Better yet, why not walk to your local bookstore and get the book? So again, it's called Walk. And her website is Melissa McDowell.com. We'll put the link to that and all the ways to find and follow Melissa in show notes. Again, Melissa, thank you for being here today. Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure. Okay, friend, here's my takeaway. We've complicated something that was never meant to be complicated. Shocking, I know. Because movement isn't just about fitness. It's about function. It's about how we live in our bodies, how we move through our days, how we show up for our lives now and for as long as we're here. And walking, it was never the lesser option. It was the original one, the accessible one, the sustainable one, the one, all people in the blue zones have.

Starting point is 00:40:05 in common, the one that meets you exactly where you are, no matter your age, your stage, or your starting point. So maybe the work isn't to do more, push harder, or chase whatever version of exercises trending right now. Maybe the work is to come back to what works, to trust what your body has been asking for all along, to stop overlooking the simple things that have the power to change everything. Because taking care of your body in a way that actually supports your life, not just your image, that is, and will always be, woman's work. Grownups, if there's a child in your life who is interested in, curious about, or fascinated by people and places from history, then my podcast, The Past and the Curious, might just be a hit

Starting point is 00:40:57 in your home. From the invention of microscopes to world-traveling dogs, to fashions of the 1890s, gold rush ghost towns, and audiences going wild for walking competitions, we've got a little bit of it all. Hosted by children's author and museum educator Mick Sullivan, that's me, the show is fun, funny, engaging, honest, and beloved by kids and parents alike. Find the past and the curious at all the usual podcast places.

This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - The No-BS Fitness Strategy That Actually Works (That You’ve Probably Been Overlooking) with Dr. Milica McDowell | 407

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