This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Turning Pain Into Purpose with Courtney Johnson | 257

Starting point is 00:00:00 I am Nicole Kalil, and on this episode of This Is Woman's Work, we're diving into a topic that's both deeply personal and profoundly powerful. It's also one of those topics that's easier said than done. Today, we're going to explore how we can turn our pain into our purpose. Friend, I've seen this transformation more times than I can count. In fact, I'd venture to say that almost every guest we've featured on the show, and certainly its host, has taken something that was personally hard, deeply painful, and possibly even the biggest obstacle in their life and turned it into their work or their passion or even their purpose.

Starting point is 00:00:53 If you've been listening for a while, you know that confidence is my passion and seeing more women grow, build, and reconnect with their own confidence is what gets me up in the morning and also what keeps me up at night. But this passion wasn't born out of a place of ease or natural talent. It stemmed from a period in my life that I wasn't at all sure what confidence even was, but I was certain that I didn't have any of it. And I was lonely, unhealthy, deeply sad,

Starting point is 00:01:23 and living for show, living for other people and perception. It's ironic, really, almost as if we've been given these hardships not to break us, but to teach us, to show us that we can get to the other side of it, that if we can learn to live well with it or find a path through it, and that once we do, we can find ourselves in that unique position to help others when they face the same struggle, whether it's just one person or many millions. So as you listen today, I encourage you to reflect on your own life. Is there a challenge you've faced or a hardship you've endured that could be transformed into

Starting point is 00:02:04 something meaningful, something bigger than yourself. And by the way, it's okay if you're not there yet with whatever is hard in your life. I only ask that you consider that your unique story may lead to your unique purpose. On today's episode, I'm thrilled to introduce you to a guest who embodies this in a big way. Her story is a testament to the power of turning pain into purpose, and I'm excited for you to hear it. Courtney Johnson is a visionary entrepreneur and passionate advocate for supporting individuals and families fighting cancer. At 23, she founded Culinary Care, a Chicago-based nonprofit inspired by her father's battle with lung cancer and the impact of meals delivered to their home. Under her

Starting point is 00:02:54 leadership, Culinary Care has delivered over 40,000 free meals in the past 11 years to families fighting cancer, reducing loneliness, restoring hope, and fostering community. She's been recognized as a Cranes Chicago 20 in their 20s honoree and a Tyson Foods Meals That Matter hero, inspiring others to make lasting impact in the fight against cancer. Courtney, thank you so much for being our guest and for the important and impactful work that you're doing. And I have to ask, at what point in your journey did you think or even have like an inkling that your experience with your dad fighting cancer would one day lead to something bigger? Thank you so much for having me here. And that's a great question and And not one that I, I think about often, but my dad passed away in 2006. I was heading into my senior year of high

Starting point is 00:03:53 school at the time. So, you know, that's, I start with that because I had this sort of four, four to five year gap of just navigating going to college. And I was just quickly moved into that atmosphere. So there wasn't really a lot of time for me to pause and grieve and even just internalize what was happening. I just distinctly remember studying for the ACT on one end of our dining room table. And on the other end was my mom planning my dad's funeral. And so there really just like was not a lot of time to do that. So for me, when I graduated college, the moment that I was like, okay, I need to do something with this. And I always volunteered. Volunteerism was just part of my life.

Starting point is 00:04:47 I love being of service. One of my favorite jobs was being a waitress. I love hospitality. I love being of service. I just love connecting with people. And so for me, I just really felt like my day job wasn't going to fill that void. And I had just graduated college and was doing all these internships and trying to find what I was going to do in the world. And so that was my mindset in that time. And I thought initially, I'll just volunteer. And what meant the most to me when my dad was diagnosed and through the seven months from his diagnosis until his passing was the food that we had and were able to look forward to because neighbors and friends cared enough to make that happen for us. And so my mind just kept going back to that moment of just looking forward

Starting point is 00:05:37 to a meal. It was the only sort of highlight amidst a very stressful experience. And that was what I wanted to just bring to others. So that was kind of the nugget that got everything started was really just thinking, how can I volunteer my time? And as I started researching ways to engage in that way that I wanted to, I found that nothing existed. And so that kind of kept snowballing into, okay, well, then what do people do if they're fighting cancer and they don't have a community that's supporting them? How can I try to help them in this way? And just kind of going through those motions and asking those questions and having just a very entrepreneurial mindset of, can we just help one person? I have no idea if this is going to be just this huge organization or even where it is

Starting point is 00:06:32 today. But that was the initial sort of impetus behind the work that we're doing. And where I was at that time was just really, there was not, I just felt like I wasn't going to get enough meaning with the jobs, the sort of day job. And I just wanted to be able to be of service. So thank you for sharing that part of your journey. And I asked the question both because I was curious, but also because I found myself, and I think for most people, there is some time, some space that sort of happens between when you're dealing with something painful or hard. I don't know. I've yet to meet anybody who's like going through it as

Starting point is 00:07:13 like, oh, this is going to be my life's work. And it's sort of more like you get yourself, and I don't want to say through it because a lot of times there is no like point where it's not still with you, but where you get some space and some distance and you've sort of worked within yourself. And then there's these breadcrumbs that you sort of follow along the way and it evolves into your purpose. Does that jive with your experience? Yes, a%. I think to your one of

Starting point is 00:07:47 the terms that I really love, and I think I learned it from Sheryl Sandberg, but it was bouncing forward. So in these times of trauma, you're just looking to bounce some direction. And I think for me, it was, I just, I have to bounce forward. And there really wasn't a lot of time to pause and think it was, you know, you're just, my life circumstance was just, I just am going to college. Like, there was no doubt of like, well, should I take a year off or anything? It was just like, this is what, what I have to do next. And my dad would absolutely want me going, going to college and not, you know, having this moment be a different life circumstance. And so, yes, 100%. And I don't, I don't think that, to your point, there was no moment where I was just like, oh my gosh, this is my whole life purpose. You know, it was just these little things that just kept going and kept snowballing. And then it just happened that it combined a lot of my passions. You know, I went to college thinking that I was going to be a doctor. I was, you know, so passionate, like I'm going to help.

Starting point is 00:08:58 I'm going to help other people that are like my dad that are going through cancer or just something really difficult. And I'm going to help them through it from like a medical perspective. And that just was not a good fit for me. And I always love food. And so it just kind of, it happened to combine these two things, but sort of unintentionally, it wasn't like I graduated college and then thought, okay, I love food and I love helping people. How do I bring these forces together? It was really just exactly what you're saying where I just, it's one foot in front of the other. And for us and what, you know, starting the org now it's, you know, we're helping hundreds of people a year. So it's hard to say, oh, it's just one person at a time because there's hundreds and, you know, eventually

Starting point is 00:09:38 there will be thousands. But, you know, in the very, very early days, it was really just how can I change one person's life? How can I change the next person's life? And it wasn't, I really tried to be cautious and sensitive about not overwhelming myself with the potential need that there was in the community. There certainly is a huge need and a huge void for what we're doing. But I really tried to be as focused as I could on just if we can change one person's life, we're doing something good here. And just okay, great. Now we're going to

Starting point is 00:10:10 change another person's life. And then it just kind of kept going from there. And a lot of it was just exploring those little moments of like, how do you get a meal from point A to point B? Let's solve that. And then it's okay,, great. How do we add in some element of care? And how do we grow the organization while maintaining this quality that we really want to deliver and making sure everyone feels seen and heard and cared for? So it is just very one foot in front of the other. I'm so glad you said all of that because I think sometimes we think, I don't know, there's only one way to do this or that it has to be really big in order for it to count, or we make up all sorts of stuff. And as you were talking, a few things

Starting point is 00:10:58 kind of sparked up in my mind. And one of them was there's one million ways you could have turned this pain into a purpose. As you mentioned, it could have been about cancer treatments. It could have been about a specific cancer. It could have been about different forms of care. There's so many ways. And you followed what meant the most to you. You followed a personal connection and started, you know, could have just been one person and that would have been meaningful. I think sometimes we think we only ever get one purpose and it is what it is, or we either live into it or we don't,

Starting point is 00:11:39 as opposed to this idea that there are lots of ways and options and purposes that can come out of something hard. So my next question is about kind of the enrolling and gathering other people into your purpose. So you're not the person making all the meals, delivering all the meals, providing all the care. It's evolved into something much bigger than that. How did that transition happen for you? And how did you get other people on board? I think we probably have a slower and steadier pace than other organizations, other startups, frankly. And I started culinary care with a full-time job. So I was coming from a place of like, I'm working full-time and this is just going to be something that really just fills my cup on a more personal level. This isn't going to be my job necessarily.

Starting point is 00:12:40 So it was really just me, my family, and some colleagues that had a similar story to mine. And that's really, in terms of how do we rally people around our cause, it is a small and unfortunate connection that we all have where my story is not unique. There are so many people that have lost a loved one that they haven't, what they haven't lost their loved one, they're going through treatment. They have, you know, a loved one who's gone through treatment is now a survivor, but food is really that connecting point, like food and cancer. And so, you know, it is something that just resonates with so many people. And even if you haven't had someone that has gone through cancer treatment specifically

Starting point is 00:13:25 we have those foodies that just appreciate what my dad and had raised me to appreciate which is like food is something we should be able to look forward to and that was how I grew up and had the privilege to grow up in that circumstance of just for us food was something that we were always able to get excited about look forward forward to. And that's how I live my life today. Like if I don't know what I'm having for lunch, dinner, breakfast, I'm like, what is happening today? But it was truly, so that was, you know, a little bit of context in terms of how we rally people. And I think where the mission just deeply resonates with people is just sharing what we do, who we are and what we believe. And they connect with that from just a logistics and getting started standpoint and going

Starting point is 00:14:11 from this volunteer based organization. I was working full time for two and a half years. So you don't have to start an organization and like immediately jump in. You don't have to jump in to do anything, whether it's starting a nonprofit, starting a company, or just starting something new. It doesn't have to be like this immediately jump off the bridge, hold the parachute and hope it works type of situation. We really just tried to be intentional and steady and grow at a pace that felt right for just like a life balance, frankly. And so that was really how we started. So for two and a half years, I was working full time, it just got to a point where we had raised some funds. And really, the inflection point for us was we had raised funds. And there were so too many families reaching out to us about wanting to use our program that we couldn't

Starting point is 00:15:07 handle the bandwidth from a volunteer-based organization standpoint. Somebody had to do this full-time from both a fundraising standpoint and just delivering the meals. And so the person that made sense for that leap was me. So I took that leap and we started in 2013. In spring of 2015, I came on full time. And then we just hit another inflection point where it was, I was delivering 100% of our meals for the most part. I was raising 100% of our funds. And the balance between that, we needed to hire somebody to help deliver meals. So we put out ads and it was just a meal delivery position. And we were just highly sensitive to who those people were. Their interview process was and still is to this day, it's a lot for what we're hiring for. But we really try to be

Starting point is 00:15:59 diligent about who we're hiring. You are the face of the organization. You're going in, you're greeting our patients. And then it really has just been these little inflection points where you're just like, okay, this is where we're at, we need to switch, you know, this year, it was we need to move into Salesforce, like our current systems, we've got like three different CRMs that we're using our teams, like across, you know, all these different platforms,, we need to be able to be into one system. And so there's just these inflection points that you hit where it's like, this makes the most sense. And we always put the programs first. How is this going to help us change someone's life? So for Salesforce, it was if we can take tasks off of our program's team's plate and give them the

Starting point is 00:16:47 bandwidth to deeply care and be more intentional about the care they're delivering, this makes the most sense for us. They're doing tasks that an automation can do that doesn't add value to our patient. It's just things that they have to do to get a meal delivered and to deliver the service. And so for us, it's really just how do we make these next steps? And it's just really like, what's the one next thing you can do that can get you towards your goal? And we try, I personally just try to not be like really overwhelming about it. There's so much to do and there's so much we want to change. And we just try to go as fast as we can while also being realistic to the balance of I've got an eight month hold at home. So you know, there's only so much time in the day. And you can only do

Starting point is 00:17:35 so much as one person. So I try to be realistic about about that balance and just appreciate that like this is where we are in this moment. Do I want to grow faster? Yes. Do we want to do more? Yes. But there's only so much time and energy we've got. So, and I'm trying to figure out how to word this, and this is a personal decision that each individual would need to make for themselves. But I sometimes hear people saying, you know, turning your pain into your purpose keeps that pain very alive in your day-to-day world. What would you say about doing something as your work, as your purpose that stemmed from what I have to imagine was heartbreaking. Does it serve as a reminder? How has that been for you?

Starting point is 00:18:35 Yeah. I mean, for me, it's really been the complete opposite. A lot of this stems from when my dad passed, we, you know, I'm the oldest of three and we were all teenagers at the time. So we've got, you know, my mom who's trying to navigate my dad passing with three teenagers at home, which I can only imagine the level of stress. And I remember she brought us all and was like, let's go see a family therapist. Like this going to be, I don't know what to do and how to communicate with you guys. Let's have someone help. And the one thing that I remember that therapist saying was that being of service and helping others tends to help with the grieving process immensely. And for some reason that just really, really stuck with me. And I just still remember it to this day. So for me, doing what I do is not rubbing salt in the wound. It has actually been incredibly healing and it has turned the pain into something that just

Starting point is 00:19:42 almost brings joy into my life, which sounds strange. It's such a traumatic experience that I miss my dad every single day and wish that I could share another meal with him. At the same time, being able to talk about him so often is so healing. And yes, when I started culinary care, there was not a moment where I probably wasn't in tears sharing my story. And if I had an event and needed to get on stage or speak to people, I would have to tell my mom to hide behind a wall or a curtain or something because she would always cry every time I told my story and talked about my dad. And then about, I would say like two or three years in, it just became something where I get to

Starting point is 00:20:32 just celebrate his legacy and his life and just share what he loved and what I learned from him. And I feel like a lot of people don't get that and they don't get to do that with their family members and their loved ones if they're not being of purpose with it. And that doesn't mean having to give back or having to start a nonprofit. It's just doing something and being intentional about how you're keeping that person's memory alive. Because at some point, for a while, I would just call his cell phone and want to hear his voice. And so I'd get the voicemail. And then the cell phone line is disconnected. And you're just kind of like, oh, my gosh, like, what do I do? And there's a lot of, you know, friends and, you know, family members who I see their loved ones have passed. And they really don't get a place to talk about it

Starting point is 00:21:19 and turn it into something positive. And so when you bring it up to them at dinner, you know, how are you doing? Or you ask about it, you do feel like you're rubbing salt in the wound, because it is like, it's not something that they're proactively addressing on a regular basis. So for me, I think it is something that I highly encourage people to do, whether it's just writing, you know, a guest blog post for someone or just talking about it. Even if it is just like opening up with it to family and friends and just taking it and just trying to talk about it as often as you can and turning it into something where it's not this sad subject. And I think that's what I love about food is it's not necessarily focusing on my dad or his cancer. It's focusing on something that just brought a lot of joy into our lives, whether it was through his diagnosis or just beforehand. So I think that is something that I really do encourage anyone to do is just

Starting point is 00:22:21 try to do something to talk about the trauma. I'm so glad I asked that question, even though I obviously didn't really know how to ask it, because that was so, that's such a beautiful response. I think it spoke to me and it connected me with you and your story, but also like my experience too. So well said. I want to talk a little bit about culinary care specifically. I wonder or worry that people might think that meals might not be as impactful as they are. Obviously the love of food and all of that, but I think there's also the element of, you know, these people have way bigger, more important things to do in their day often than cooking. So they, you know, either don't eat or can't eat or don't have the time or don't have the funds or, I mean, there's so many reasons. So can you tell us a little bit about outside of just the love of food, why meals are so

Starting point is 00:23:27 important and so impactful for families and people living and fighting with cancer? Yeah, I think that is such a great point because it is food is something that I think we so easily take for granted. And I think a lot of us saw it, particularly when it comes to good food. And I think a lot of us experienced that in COVID when you were no longer able to dine at restaurants and that sense of community that you had and that feeling taken care of and that hospitality was now sort of stripped out of your life and loneliness hit. And now it's a global epidemic of loneliness and just feeling isolated. And so I think food

Starting point is 00:24:13 has so much more purpose in our life. And that's why we sort of have transitioned our mission into making nourishment part of cancer care is because for us, the reason we designed the name and we didn't just say like culinary cancer food service is it is culinary care. And we take for granted the amount of care and just emotional nourishment and love that is felt when you are giving someone a good meal. And that is really, you know, sort of half of our name is the care. But on the nourishment side and the food and culinary side of things, what I have seen with our patients is it is really hard. It's hard to put food on your plate for all of the reasons you said. You know. You're navigating your everyday life. Life

Starting point is 00:25:05 is not put on hold for you to fight cancer. You are balancing what was already probably a really stressful and busy life. And now you're integrating seven plus hours of chemo and all of these treatments. And it is really hard to think about food. There's so much that is out of your control when you are fighting cancer. Food tends to be the one thing that is in your control. And as a result, it gets pushed down your to-do list and it just keeps getting pushed down. Oh, I'll eat that later. Oh, it's not as important. And we have to make it part of the conversation. It is critically important to actually consume calories for our survival. We all have to eat to survive. But it's also just emotionally critically important because you really need that moment to

Starting point is 00:25:52 pause and de-stress and come together. Whether it's a family that's sitting in chemo together, our meals, because everything is prepared by local restaurants. So it is their escape. It's their one chance in the middle of chemo to feel like they're not in the middle of chemo. This is our moment to sit and actually share a meal together amidst a very crazy, busy schedule in life. And coming together for my family and I, having those meals that were delivered to us from our family and friends, those were the were delivered to us from our family and friends. Those were the moments that we actually did come together as a family because otherwise it could have been very easy for us to come home, you know, grab a slice of pizza, head to our bedrooms, do our homework. And especially when you have teenagers at home that don't want to,

Starting point is 00:26:40 you know, we're not overly eager to connect with anyone other than like our phones and our friends and, you know, family kind of takes the backseat, I think when you're at that age. But for us, the meals were like, okay, yes, we all have to eat. And so we'll come and sit with you, mom and dad. And it was just really the moments that, that we were able to savor. But I think from, you know, from what I've seen with our patients, it is such a profound, you do think you have this sort of sense of what is one meal going to do? And the first person we ever delivered a meal to, she got one meal from us. Now you can sign up for a program. And whether you're in chemo for three months, three days, or three years plus, we have some families who we have been with for over three years. But this one woman got literally one meal from us. She was the first person we ever delivered to. And she ended up writing me a four-page letter about how this one meal just made her feel less isolated. It reminded her that people care about what she's going through. And it restored her faith

Starting point is 00:27:46 in humanity because she felt like everyone had turned their their back on her and so it is just really profound what one meal can do because there's it's so much more than food at the end of the day it truly does like every bite delivers that sense of like someone thought to make this for me and thought to bring it to me and reach out and asked how I was doing and did all of these things. So. Yeah. How do we engage, support, give to the amazing work you're doing? What's the best way to do that? The most meaningful thing you can do, and I hope it is for culinary care because we would love to have you join our community. But if there's any nonprofit that you support, please join their monthly giving community.

Starting point is 00:28:31 It is just the most sustainable way for us to make a difference and do it faster because there's so much need out in the world. So I'm just a huge advocate and huge proponent for people joining. It can, you know, $10 a month can change everything. So it feels like, oh, this is so small, or it feels like a huge gift. Whatever you can give, it really does make a huge difference on a monthly basis. It just allows us to plan, to grow, and to know what we're able to do. I'm so glad you said that. And if you're listening and you want to contribute to Culinary Care, go to culinarycare.org. Their monthly giving community is called The Line. So you can give there and make your pledge and your

Starting point is 00:29:19 monthly commitment. You can also follow Culinary Care on social media. I'll put all the links in show notes. Courtney, thank you for sharing your powerful story and your journey and for, again, doing this incredible work. Thank you for having me. Okay, friend, before I let you go, let me remind you that pain is an inevitable and unavoidable part of life. And if you're in a painful period, please know that I am sending you so much love. At some point though, I believe we all have the choice and the opportunity to

Starting point is 00:29:51 transform our pain into something meaningful, something that can help another person or even change the world. I know that when you're in it, it can feel overwhelming. And the idea of turning that pain into purpose might seem impossible, or you might even want to tell me to fuck off, which I get. But I want to encourage you to give yourself some time to feel it, to heal from it, or to learn to live with it. And when you're ready, look for the breadcrumbs, look for ways to do something with it. Whether it's starting a nonprofit, supporting a cause, or simply being there for someone else who's going through a tough time,

Starting point is 00:30:28 there is so much power in taking what hurts you and using it to help others. You are stronger than you might feel today and you have purpose that's waiting to be uncovered. Now go out there and make your mark because that is woman's work.

This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Turning Pain Into Purpose with Courtney Johnson | 257

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