This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - What To Do When Your Brain Spirals with Diana Pagano | 403

Starting point is 00:00:00 Grownups, if there's a child in your life who is interested in, curious about, or fascinated by people in places from history, then my podcast, The Past and the Curious, might just be a hit in your home. From the invention of microscopes to world-traveling dogs to fashions of the 1890s, gold rush ghost towns, and audiences going wild for walking competitions, we've got a little bit of it all. Hosted by Children's Author and Museum educator Mick Sullivan, that's me, the show is, fun, funny, engaging, honest, and beloved by kids and parents alike. Find the past and the curious at all the usual podcast places. I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And on this episode, we're doing that thing that we do, or maybe that thing that I do and you get to laugh at or roll your eyes at me.

Starting point is 00:01:07 We're talking about an important word or concept that's being thrown around a lot. In this case, especially in personal development circles. And it's being thrown around so much that I fear it's losing its meaning, its power, its impact. We're talking mindset. Because somewhere along the way, it got reduced to positive thinking, to vision boards, into pretending that everything is fine while your brain is running as spin the wheel of worst case scenarios in the background. You know what I'm talking about. the spiral that has you convinced that you're behind, you're not good enough, about to fail

Starting point is 00:01:41 spectacularly and definitely disappointing everyone in the process. Your brain can go from, I forgot to send that email to my entire career is about to implode in about 30 seconds flat. And we're led to believe that if we could just get ourselves to think positively, it would all be okay, which in my experience is about as helpful as telling somebody to calm down when they're panicking. Because mindset isn't about pretending that your brain doesn't do this. Our brains are wired to scan for threats, rehearse disasters, and keep us safe. The problem is that that same brain designed to keep us alive can also keep us stuck. It can have us playing small, overthinking every move and waiting until we feel confident before we act. When we oversimplify,

Starting point is 00:02:31 something as powerful as mindset. When we turn it into a social media post instead of a practice, we start to believe all we need to do is force our brains to think better thoughts. Easy peasy, right? Well, friend, I call bullshit. Mindset is about the much more powerful and therefore much less easy, ongoing learning of things like how to interrupt the spiral, regulate our nervous systems, and take one grounded action that moves us forward. Because the humans listening to this show, the leaders, the builders, the multitaskers, juggling careers, businesses, families, and big dreams, we don't need another fucking pep talk about being positive. We need tools. We need ways to break the mental loops that keep us stuck, and we need strategies

Starting point is 00:03:18 that move us into action, which is exactly what today's guest is here to help us do. Diana Pagano is a two-time national best-selling author, action-driven mindset coach, keynote speaker, and the author of The More Mindset, break mental limits and step into extraordinary results and where she teaches practical tools to help ambitious professionals like us break free from limiting beliefs and take bold, imperfect action

Starting point is 00:03:47 toward the results we actually want. So, Diana, welcome to the show. And I want to start with mindset because it is one of those words. I think that everyone thinks they understand, but I'm not sure we actually do. So when you talk about the more mindset, what does that really mean and where are we getting it wrong? Thank you, Nicole. So happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Yes, I think there's a notion that, you know, you got to think positive and positive things happen, right? And so the more mindset is not about, or sometimes people say, oh, well, you know, I'm so busy doing so much more. Does this mean I need to do more? It's not about doing more. It's about becoming more of who you were meant to become. And unfortunately, there's so much outside noise that we allow in that cripples us. And so you're not able to step into more when you,

Starting point is 00:04:35 don't take hold of the things that have crippled us. You know, it's the small things. I mean, you said it beautifully, a beautiful intro there, that we take hold of what doesn't serve us, because our brain is designed to keep us safe. Unfortunately, it's not designed to keep us happy. Okay, so I want to talk about that

Starting point is 00:04:51 because I think we think if we just manage our mindset, all of a sudden we'll be happy all the time. But I at least alluded, if not outright said in my intro, that the spiral that we seem to all experience is perfectly normal. So first, is it perfectly normal? And if it is, then what is the best thing, the most powerful thing that we can do when we are experiencing that spiral? Yes, it is very normal. It happens to the best of us.

Starting point is 00:05:19 The highest achievers, the people you might look up to, everyone has. One thing that, you know, our beliefs, you know, are limiting beliefs that rise up that they don't discriminate. And when you have these thoughts, it could spiral, as you said, it can go spiral. what if I don't get the job? What if they laugh at me? What if I don't, you know, look as good as they want me to look at or what if my presentation, you know, whatever. There's all these things. And the more you allow that, you know, going against the current when you know that, you know, just let things happen and trust the process, right? And I think that it's easier said than done when you're in the panic mode. So I always say it's almost like, you know, my son has asthma. I always say it's like your rescue inhaler.

Starting point is 00:06:01 know that it's going to happen, but how do you get through that one precise moment? Because it takes a moment, a moment to change your action. Because if you believe in your mind or your heart that this isn't going to work out or you start having these thoughts that will allow you to spiral, you have to interrupt the pattern. You have to interrupt the pattern. And so that'll get you through the other side. And I say, you know, it's like your rescue inhaler in that moment. And then it allows you to be able to breathe again. And so one of the things I talk about in my book is a method that I call change the channel because it's all about the channel of focus that we're on. Why do you think there's highs and there's lows?

Starting point is 00:06:37 There's things that you're focusing on. If I ask you, it, give me a time that, you know, you felt the best. You're going to smile. You're going to think about it. Maybe it's when you had your first child. Maybe your first, you know, job that you landed or business deal, right? And so you're going to feel good. But if you're thinking about defeat or what would they say about me, whatever that negative

Starting point is 00:06:56 thought is, right? We all have them. And you don't change your channel of focus. It's going to change and continue to change how you feel. And one of the things I will say, and even science will show you, when you feel bad, you make bad decisions. This is just a reality. I mean, heck, we all have our moments. I have four kids of all ages. I come home. You can lose your S-H-I-T. And right, and you're not going to, if you're in a bad state, you're on thin ice. And how many times us women, especially, we shower last, we have to do everything at the home. And we, we're not. And we're not going to, we have to go continue with our careers and that's okay and even for stay-at-home moms my gosh that's a full-time job but when we are stressed when we feel stressed we're going to be a little agitated and so the way that

Starting point is 00:07:37 you perform the way that you show up not just for yourself but for other people and even yourself um is going to that that's spiraling so so so you got to focus on how you feel and yes i understand that some people might say oh my gosh am i supposed to be kumbaya 24-7 365 i don't believe we were designed to be in one emotion, right? We were emotional creatures, quite frankly, men and women. And so how do we change that? Because you don't get what you want in life. You typically get what you believe to be so, but your emotional state dictates, Nicole, what action you take. So if I'm not feeling so confident, I'm probably not going to take the right action. Oh, well, I'm going to contact customers that, you know, to help me with my business or whatever it is, whether you're in sales or not. Personally, I think everybody's in sales,

Starting point is 00:08:26 the way that you feel, right, is going to dictate the type of action that you take or maybe even the lack of action is still you taking, making a decision. And so the way that you interrupt the spiraling is change the channel. I know it sounds so simple because if you're thinking like, what if I don't get the job? What if I miss my flight? What if I, you know, what if they don't say yes? What if all these what if? What if the doctor tells me the bad news that I don't want to hear? I know this sounds really serious. It depends, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter your circumstance. What if it goes right? What if it does work out?

Starting point is 00:08:58 And I say that and you might think, well, that's easier said than done when it hasn't worked out in the past. But could it happen now? Because, right? And there's even science that shows that over 90% of our negative thoughts, probably even 98%, but I know it's over 90% of our negative thoughts, Nicole, are false assumptions. They just are. And we are the ones that can keep that alive just by having that shift of saying and changing

Starting point is 00:09:23 your channel to focus. Allow it, allow yourself to dream. Allow yourself to have more, believe more, believe bigger. In that moment, in that precise moment, it's going to work out. And even when it doesn't work out, I'm meant to go through this thing and I'm going to still step into more because you're allowing yourself. It's almost like that thing that you hold on so tight, Nicole, and you suffocate the outcome. It's a true thing. I've been there so many times. I've coached hundreds of women that have suffocated their dreams and I'm like, wait a second, what if it doesn't work out? What's the worst that could happen? So, right? And so it's, it's not allowing your spiral and interrupting the pattern to change the channel and allowing yourself to look at the situation as it, as if it already worked out. And when

Starting point is 00:10:09 you think about neuroscience, just to add this one last moment, everything that we've gone through in life, your wedding, your first job, you know, your promotion, your business, anything, anything, You've already done it twice because it started in your mind. That's a real deep thing for many people, deep thing for many people to realize. Yeah. So, okay, there are a handful of things in there. My area of focus is confidence. And you talked about action and feeling.

Starting point is 00:10:36 And I often think people think that confidence is a feeling. And my understanding of it, my research of it, it's more of a choice. It's something anyone of us can choose. just like action. And so as we change the channel or interrupt the spiral, and I think that's really where the practice comes in, the more we do it, the easier. Again, the spiral doesn't go away.

Starting point is 00:11:00 The negative thoughts don't go away. It's just being able to catch it faster, to name it faster, to do something about it faster. So do you have any tools or tips or tricks that work for you or that you've seen work for other people that any one of us could do that help us change the channel or that interrupt the pattern?

Starting point is 00:11:25 Yes. Okay. Yeah. So when that thought comes, the first thing I would do is stop and ask and challenge it and say, is this a fact?

Starting point is 00:11:34 Or am I making an assumption? Is it a fact? And I would take a deep breath. When you do this, by the way, Nicole, it becomes a habit. So don't worry about being perfect. we all have our moments. I want you to challenge it and say, is this a factor?

Starting point is 00:11:48 Is my making an assumption of all the what-ifs? There's a bunch of what-ifs. And if there's good what-ifs and there's bad what-ifs. And when you take a deep breath, first off, it resets you, your nervous system. Because when you spiral, your nervous system is your cortisol levels go up, right? Your hormones, stress hormones, and that is affecting your body, your mind, right? And so you take a deep breath and you challenge it. And you say, okay, is this a fact?

Starting point is 00:12:12 and then you change the channel by just changing your focus. So we all have frequencies, right? And like neural pathways in our brain. I know this, when I first learned this, Nicole, years ago, I was like, wow, wow, there's like, we create these neural pathways in our brain. What does that mean? And I'm telling you, we do live more than 90% of the time unconsciously.

Starting point is 00:12:33 I mean, I did this the other day. I was driving someone. It was like a Saturday, but it's my routine during the week. And I got off the exit that I typically only do during the week. and I'm like, wait a second, I'm not going there Saturday. And so because unconsciously we repeat these behaviors. And so when you know that, that's why it's so important to decide. You mentioned confidence when you decide up front the decisions that you make that you're

Starting point is 00:12:56 going to be consistent. And even if you're not perfect, you just get back on the saddle. Because eventually, the more you do this, now you're rewiring your brain to think differently. If you're the person that always thinks like, oh, this always happens to me, it never fails. I can't tell you how many people I've worked with and I'm like, you can't say that. You think it's small, but that's the belief that you're continuing to tell your unconscious mind and that's what you're going to continue to get things that actually mimic that. So I challenge everyone.

Starting point is 00:13:25 So listen, you think this is crazy. Woo-woo, it's not woo-woo. The more you tell yourself, things work for my greater good. Things are happening for me, not to me. Even the bad things that have happened to me, I always used to resist it and challenge it in a way that's like, no. And I'm like, no, this is happening. And we need to start listening to those things that challenge us. Sorry to break in, but this part matters.

Starting point is 00:13:48 Rate the show, share it, and support the sponsor so I can keep making episodes worth interrupting you for. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $24.50 an hour. Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills, training programs for in-demand fields like software development and information technology. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. I'm curious your thoughts on this. Many, many years ago, I created something for myself that I called the recovery plan. And it was a list of things, actions that I could do from small to big when I find myself

Starting point is 00:14:42 in a bad place, had a bad day, had a bad week. the brain is telling me all of my normal patterns. And then, of course, as you said, then I'm creating them unconsciously. And what I found is on my worst days, during tough times, my feelings are not good things to rely on. My feelings have me wanting to binge watch Grey's Anatomy or drink a glass and by glass, I mean bottle of wine. My feelings want me to give up. And so this recovery plan was a list of simple things. Like I have a feel good folder where I keep any sort of emails or notes of things where I made a difference or made an impact. And so I'll open my feel good folder and remind myself that the work that I do matters, that I matter, that I make a difference, or a phone a friend option,

Starting point is 00:15:32 or going outside for a 10-minute walk and taking deep breaths. There are just so many better choices that what my feelings want me to do on those tough days and in those hard moments. I'm curious to your thoughts. Is this an example of a way that we could kind of interrupt that pattern? And is it helpful to have ideas of healthier, more productive, more empowered things to do in those moments? I feel like even though we know it's coming, we are wildly unprepared. This is what I'm trying to say. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:16:07 I love that you mentioned, you know, it's like the feel good folder. and now you start, because what you're doing there from a science, again, neuroscience, you're actually changing your channel of focus. And that's the key right there. It's a channel of focus. You could be driving. If you don't have time to go to your folder, you could do something in that moment by saying, what else can I focus on right now?

Starting point is 00:16:27 No, we're not going to go there. We're not going to go there. Because let me tell you, the biggest achievers, I will say this again, whether you know them or not, you know, they don't stay in that place of defeat. they change their channel of focus and even the words you tell yourself the words you tell yourself be kind to yourself i mean i've heard people that they think it's not a big deal like oh my gosh stupid me oh my gosh i'm such an idiot words actually affect you way more than you believe if you think you're just being facetious and you're just joking i'm telling you the words you tell yourself so so yes

Starting point is 00:17:01 breathing is a good thing i always say i always make practical examples because i know i've been there and myself driving in the car and you're just like, what if I, you know, need to put gas or what if I run out of gas? I mean, what if, you know, and there's all these things because they're all circumstances that we've lived. And so in that moment, reframe it. How can you reframe the words? Like you mentioned, how you feel one moment is always going to be a result. That's a, that's a result, clear result of what you're focused on, that you're going to feel a certain way. So when you change your channel of focus, that changes a lot more. Why do you think that some people have the same background, the same money in their bank account, the same resources, but one person is successful while another

Starting point is 00:17:46 person struggles all the time? I mean, listen, there is struggles, real things in life that hurts our soul, that it's going to happen to the best of us. But it's what you do in that moment, right? And like you mentioned, you know, looking for other ways to think about what you're doing, your work really matters. You have to be your number one fan of yourself, number one, if you're thinking about your business or whatever it is that you're doing. But in that moment, I would reframe it. What's the language that you could use right now? So, for example, what I do, let me just tell you what I break down and what I've done many, many, many years. And I look back, Niccoe, I'm able to look back at the journals that I've had. So I have one at my nightstand.

Starting point is 00:18:29 And it doesn't have legs. If you can treat this this way, and I'm going to tell you why, when you do that, you just increase your chances of actually being consistent. And when you write in your journal, because when we're talking about spiraling and what are you do in that moment, but what I want to mention, a very key component, Nicole, is how do we become proactive? Don't wait until the storm hits. How can we be proactive? Because that's reactive.

Starting point is 00:18:51 Like the rescue inhaler, how do I get through this moment of nervousness, a frustration, of defeat? Your rescue inhaler is your change your channel and that'll get you through that moment. but there's work to be done. Don't just allow, okay, I know what to do when it hits. I'm going to change my channel of focus. I'm going to breathe. I'm going to see and what else this could mean.

Starting point is 00:19:11 I always say that. Anything that I've ever worried about, anything you get mad about, the first thing I want you to say is what else could this mean? What else could this mean? And so this is where I struggle and I'm curious your thoughts on it because I could not be more of a believer in mindset of reframing of, have seen it work over and over again. And I worry if we boil it down to a single solution issue that we inadvertently send the message that it is always about mindset. Like, I agree,

Starting point is 00:19:48 money, it has a lot to do with how you see it in your beliefs as an example. And if you are more abundant, if you live more abundantly, you create abundance in your life, I believe that. And the idea that people who don't have money, it's only because their mindset, doesn't jive with me either. So my question is, do you wrestle with this too? How do you reconcile? And I believe in the power of reframing and even knowing it and believing it, we all still have ways that we are struggling with it, where it's harder than others, where we're still, like, I mean, I'm about to be 50 years old. I still have a belief that pops up. I'm like, how am I still? wrestling with this belief. I guess my question is how do you wrestle with or reconcile this strong

Starting point is 00:20:40 belief and knowing that it works and is there a tendency potentially to oversimplify or make this a one solution issue? This is very deep. This is very deep because I've had people challenge me. I've had people pay me thousands of dollars to coach them and I said, listen, and I'll return every single dollar, but I got to stay true to who I am and what the thing is. And I've had people say, wow, I was very much feeling offended because of you telling me that everything happens. It starts in the mind. And I get chills thinking about it because even until this day, I still coach this person

Starting point is 00:21:20 has been over two or three years. And so it is a touchy thing because people say, well, how could this happen to me? How did I create this for myself? and it's not that you created it for yourself. I mean, there's external factors. There's external things. The economy, I mean, you remember COVID happened. There are external things, but why do you see businesses, even in a recession, whether

Starting point is 00:21:41 it's a single individual or a major business? How did they thrive? And so it is your outlook. It's not just, I think mindset has been such a used so loosely like mindset, mindset, mindset. It's so much deeper than just the word mindset. Like, regardless, not to make the mindset. this religious, but regardless of who you believe in, the way that I believe God created all of us, created us all equally with the same ingredients in the way that our brain words. There's,

Starting point is 00:22:08 there's, this is in my opinion, rectangular activating system is a part of our brain that filters. It literally filters all the things that exist in terms of opportunities that come. Your awareness, your awareness is what it filters. So for example, if I believe that in this economy, it's impossible for me, Diana, to get a job. Your reticular activating system is unconscious, Nicole, and it's like antennas. It's antennas. It's truly antennas.

Starting point is 00:22:39 Just looking for opportunities that mimic, mimic what I just said. And it's almost impossible for opportunities to exist, and your rectangular activating system is like, it filters it out. It filters it out. So now I'm not hyper aware of it because my belief is that it's so hard. hard and it's impossible for me to get a job. I was a single mom struggling in Scottsdale, Arizona once upon a time. And I remember being so fearful of all these things and beliefs, I thought I had to work seven days a week because my parents, you know, didn't tell me. But when I was

Starting point is 00:23:13 five, 10, 12, 11, I saw it with my own eyes that it was hard because we were being evicted every 12 to 18 months and having to move a mile away. People thought, oh, you're from San Diego. That's beautiful. And I'm not trying to, you know, knock my parents did the best they could at that moment. And that's what drove me to write my book because of what I single-handedly went through as a kid. And then I started to repeat those same vicious cycles. So when you talk about, just to answer more about your question, it all starts on our belief. So it's not belief, yes, I believe that, you know, whatever it is that you believe. And it's not that it's wrong or right. It's just, what are you doing with that? Is that serving you? Because it's belief. It's your core belief. It's the habits that you're doing.

Starting point is 00:23:55 it's decisions that you're making. And that's why it's labeled mindset, because what mindset are you bringing to the table? Well, I'm bringing a mindset that although it's a tough job market, I'm going to keep knocking on doors, something's going to give. It's like that farmer planting seeds. And he's like, when's it going to rain? I need my crop to come to fruition. And he gives up when it's almost, you're almost there.

Starting point is 00:24:17 When you don't see the success, that's when it becomes more of like you need to stay with it. right? It's easy when things are going our way, but the ones that actually stick to it and keep planting those seeds and knowing, knowing that one day it's going to rain, that's the mindset you're bringing to the table of grit. That's the true grit. We take away grit because people are so easily distracted. They get everything at their fingertips, instant gratification. But yes, I do believe that it's all in our belief. Yeah. So one of the things that always just resonates with me is we have, I don't want to use the word control, we have ability, we have options, we have possibility when it comes to our mindset. And it's something that is always ongoing, right? We're

Starting point is 00:25:09 always learning something new about ourselves and the way we see the world. We always have opportunity to play and create and rethink and reframe. And that's what I love. about it so much and couldn't agree more how powerful it is. I just, I love the opportunity of focusing on mindset first because it's something we all can do something with. It's not like mindset is like only for people that believe. Like we all bring that. We were born like that's how we were given like a brain to think for ourselves, a brain to believe what we choose to believe. You have free will. It's a beautiful thing. The biggest gift that you have from whoever you believe your higher self is, is the power to control your thoughts.

Starting point is 00:25:54 You have control. When I learned that, I was like, wait, what? I can control. This isn't just like things that I'm just going to, you can't control how to navigate through that. And you mentioned manifestation, even manifesting is like, oh, that's too woo for me. No, you're already manifesting. All right. Listener, I encourage you to get your hands on the book. It's the more mindset available on Amazon or wherever it is you buy books. Let's keep our local bookstores in business. And you can find more about Diana and her work on her website, diana Pagano.com. We're going to put her links and all the ways to find and follow her in show notes. Diana, thank you. Thank you, Nicole. All right, friend, your brain spiraling does not mean that you're broken. It means you're human because your mind will offer you

Starting point is 00:26:36 worst case scenarios. It will question. It will try to protect you. And the goal isn't to eliminate those thoughts, is to prevent them from getting in the driver's seat. So when the fear and the doubt and the overthinking in the noise come and they will, the biggest opportunity any of us has is to pause the spiral, to come back to the present, to reframe and take one grounded step forward anyway. Not perfectly, not fearlessly, but intentionally toward what matters most because confidence, momentum, and change aren't built in some magical moment when your mind finally behaves. They're built in the moments where you choose action, even while your brain is still arguing, with you. And choosing that next step, that is woman's work.

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This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - What To Do When Your Brain Spirals with Diana Pagano | 403

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