This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Why “Rewirement” Beats Retirement (and How to Do It Right) with Anne Chow | 350

Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs, with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. Did you lock the front door?

Starting point is 00:00:34 Check. Close the garage door? Yep. Installed window sensors, smoke sensors, and HD cameras with night vision? No. And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection, and continuous monitoring for our personal info on the dark web? Uh, I'm looking into it.

Starting point is 00:00:49 Stress less about security. Choose security solutions from TELUS for peace of mind at home and online. Visit TELUS.com slash Total Security to learn more. Conditions apply. I am Nicole Khalil, and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast, where we're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And an inevitable part of most of our lives is retirement. The concept we probably think about more often than we think, and definitely not as often as

Starting point is 00:01:30 as we should. Most of us will work and save and hustle and spreadsheet our way through 40-plus years of careers and jobs just to hopefully fingers crossed and 401Ks maxed spend the next 30 years not working. But today's episode isn't about financial planning, though if you don't have a retirement plan, seriously pause this, find a financial advisor and then come back. This episode is about how we want that next chapter to look and feel. do you want to do? Who do you want to do it with? Where do you want to spend your time and your energy and your hard-earned freedom? My personal vision for retirement has definitely evolved, though a few things remain consistent. Travel? Always. My people, non-negotiable. A slower,

Starting point is 00:02:18 gentler pace? Yes, please. But what's changed is that I no longer imagine closing my laptop, walking out the office door, and giving everyone the finger on the way out. I mean, you know I was going to go out in style, right? But the thing is, I just don't see myself not working anymore. I see myself working differently from calling instead of obligation, from purpose instead of pressure. Basically, I see working when I feel like it. I'm not rushing towards this finish line anymore. And the more that I think about it, the more I get why research shows that men's confidence dips in their 60s. I assume because their value has often been tied up in producing and providing. But here's the plot twist.

Starting point is 00:03:03 Research also shows that women's confidence rises in our 60s. Maybe because we've finally stopped caring so much about everybody else's opinions, and I, for one, am doing everything in my power to accelerate that trend. So, yeah, I'm rethinking retirement as more of what our guest calls rewirement. When Ann Chow said the word, it hit me with a full body, yes. This isn't just a transition. It's a rewiring, a reimagining, a reclaiming. So let's talk about that.

Starting point is 00:03:36 Anne Chow is the former CEO of AT&T business and was the first woman and first woman of color to hold that role overseeing more than 35,000 employees and serving 3 million business customers globally. Today, she sits on the boards of Franklin Covey, 3M, and CSX, teaches at Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management and is the author of Lead Bigger, a title that says exactly what it is that she does. And thank you for joining us again, episode 253 for those of you who do want to go back and learn to lead bigger. And I'm going to start

Starting point is 00:04:11 today's conversation by asking the obvious question. What is rewirement? Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much, Nicole. And it is, it's a delight to be back here with you and sharing thoughts with, um, with your audience and your listeners on a topic that I'm super passionate, which is about remirement. So maybe I could start with just the origin of this idea and this notion. You know, I spent over 30 years in corporate America. And when I reflect back on the moment that I entered the workforce, it was just go, go, go. I graduated in May.

Starting point is 00:04:45 I started working in June, and I did not stop. You know, fast forward, I had an amazing three-decade-plus career. in tech and technology, you know, and rose to some quite high levels as an operator. And I found myself, you know, kind of picking my head up after I had reached this pinnacle of, you know, becoming a CEO of a giant business, something that I thought that I could do, but I never thought that it would happen for me. And I realized as I led my team and the business through the pandemic, that there had to be more, And no one could say to me, hey, you haven't done your time. You haven't contributed to the industry. You haven't contributed to innovation, to the business, to your people, to your clients, to your investors. I looked up the word retirement because that's kind of what I was feeling. I was feeling this, is it time? Is it time for me to go? And the definition of retirement, as I found it, was to leave the workforce. And it occurred to me that the struggle I was having with this notion of retirement was that,

Starting point is 00:05:53 I didn't want to leave the workforce. I wanted to leave the type of work that I was doing because I had done it for a salon and felt like I had achieved all of the things and more that I had wanted to. And I just felt like there was just more. You know, there was more to life than this type of work, this type of women's work, if I dare say that, pun intended. So I thought to myself, you know, I'm an electrical engineer by education. And when you have an old piece of equipment, old piece of technology, in order to refresh it, you often have to physically and literally rewire it.

Starting point is 00:06:32 So it struck me, you know, as an electrical engineer, that I had often rewired in school and, you know, in some of my more technical jobs, you know, equipment, you know, whether it was recoding from a software perspective or literally rewiring and from a hardware perspective. And I thought to myself, hey, this is a great play on words. What I actually have to do is rewire. I have to rewire my notion of work. I have to rewire what is important to me. And I got to go almost reinvent myself in an evolutionary way, not really, you know, kind of a revolutionary, but in an evolutionary way. And so I came up with this word of rewirement to describe this phase of my career.

Starting point is 00:07:15 And, you know, one of the questions that COVID I get very often is that, Ann, do you have to wait till the end, right? You know, as if, you know, after 30 years it's the end, it's clearly not. Do you have to wait till you're doing something for a really long time to decide to rewire? And what I've come to learn, as I've spent more and more time with people and have actively talked about this topic of rewirement is that, no, you can rewire whenever you want, right? Some may call it a career pivot, right? That seems to be a word of choice. I like the idea of rewiring because it's more, it seems more natural. It builds on what you've already done. It builds on the skills, the experiences, the mindsets, the emotions, the preferences that you have built up over the years of experience and things that you've done. So rewirement is really about this next stage, whatever that stage may be. You could rewire in your 20s. You know, I've got two Gen Z daughters and one of their friends went to school for engineering, did that for two years,

Starting point is 00:08:19 and decided she wants to become a teacher in her 20s. So she has rewired in her 20s with great intention, right? So any of us can rewire at any time. And so that's the origin story of rewirement and how I think about it. It's really a refresh, a reset, a evolution, an evolution for each of us of how we think about our.

Starting point is 00:08:43 our work, but now in the context of our lives. I'm so glad that you said that because as I was preparing for this episode first, I mean, I love the play on words, right? Retirement, rewirement, it works. And I was thinking about how often we probably have the opportunity for rewirement in other transitions. Empty nesters came to mind, especially as a mom, I think we tend to define our lives and ourselves around our children for periods of time,

Starting point is 00:09:15 and I'm not sure that that's a bad thing, you know, but when they go off and chase their dreams or go to college or whatever it is that they do, I think that there is a natural rewirement that gets to happen. Or as you mentioned, doing a career pivot, I mean, there's probably a bazillion examples. But then that leads me to the question of any tips about how to do this. I would imagine there's a level of reflect.

Starting point is 00:09:42 and going inward that needs to happen. So I guess what are some of the steps or processes that you go through when you rewire, you know, in a big transition like this? Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first step, and I'm speaking from experience as well as ironically, Nicole, you know, I've had several requests from people that I've now worked with, if you will, in my refresh portfolio life, in my rewirement era, if you will, over the last almost three years now. And I've had the request to write a book about rewirement, which I'm not committing to here on this podcast. I was just going to start promoting it, so okay. But it just shows to me that there's just this need. There's this need to talk about the fact that work is not separate from your life. It's an integral part of your

Starting point is 00:10:31 life. We as humans were made to work. The question is, what is that form of work? So step one that I would advise people to do is to reflect, right? To reflect on the work that you've done to date with this type of lens, the reflection should really be about what are the things that you're good at? What are the things that you like to do? What are the environments that you love to be in? What are the environments that you loathed, right? That you just did them because you had to. they are these kind of reflections of the experiences you've had to date, you know, with, you know, full on, you are accountable to nobody but yourself to answer these questions, right? Then think through, all right, well, how do I build on my skills, right? How do I build on the environments that I liked, the people that I'd like to help, the communities, the type of work, right? Let's say you love project management, right? But you hated the marketing part of your job, right? So you would say, okay, I know I've got a great competency in project managing things and people, but I don't like that external, that marketing face of things. You would then kind of log that to say, these are my strengths,

Starting point is 00:11:46 these are my passion areas, right? These are the things that bring me to a better place in terms of how I feel about myself and how I've spent my time. Another equally important first step in conjunction with this reflection piece, is to be very candid on what your life needs are. Your life needs, as it relates to things like money, healthcare, right, healthcare insurance, caregiving responsibilities, right? What are your must-house? Because as much as many of us would like to rewire at different points in our career, even earlier on, right?

Starting point is 00:12:25 You know, I didn't have a chance to talk to this daughter's friend about her rewirements, you know, from an engineer to a teacher in her 20s. But my hope is for her that she has thought through the different trajectory that that will place her on, right, in all facets of what that means. So this point of reflection, these moments of reflection are so critical, I would say that you should have an inner circle with which you can talk to about this. this is not something you can talk to everyone about. You should only talk to your true confluence who know you personally, whom you trust implicitly. As you might imagine, this is not something that you want getting out there, especially if you're still fully employed, right, and engage as you, you know, fully in your, let's say,

Starting point is 00:13:11 day job, right? So this is something that you have to intentionally make time for and bounce things off other people that really, that really know you, the people who really really. really, really know you and have seen you at your best and also seen you at your worst. So reflection is the first thing. You know, the second thing that I would say after all of that kind of scope of reflection is you got to do your research, right? You got to do your research. And one of the biggest mistakes that I see people make in this research part of what am I going to do next? What does rewirement look like for me is they think that they cannot start that

Starting point is 00:13:49 research activity until they are done with their prior job. Okay. You know, I'll never forget this conversation I had with a headhunter decades ago. And it really stuck with me. And he told me, he said, you know, and one of the mistakes that so many executives make is that, you know, they have these careers for decades, decades, decades, then they retire. Then they decide that they want to go teach. They want to go be on boards. They want to go do these other things. But the reality is, is that their personal stock, if you will, is on the decline, right? And so this research part of what Rewa might be for you needs to be done while you're still in the game that you're currently playing. It's when your network is the strongest.

Starting point is 00:14:39 You have the platform that you've spent years, maybe decades, building for yourself. And you do your research. You do your research to assess, hey, how do I competitively stack up? How do I competitively stack up against other entrepreneurs who have gone into this space? How do I stack up as it relates to getting into private equity if I've come from a public company, right? How does it, how do I stack up if my aspiration is a public company board or an aspiration to go teach at my alma mater? Who has done that before and how do their profiles and experiences compare to me, right? And so this research period of time is work, right?

Starting point is 00:15:18 it's work to go and assess how could you compete? Importantly, the research part, I would say, then leads you to a, what I would call a planting of seeds, right? If you've not already intentionally then, let's say your research says, hey, you know, the way that you most effectively get on boards is to develop relationships with a couple of key recruiters, make sure that you're networked up with a bunch of existing board members, right? You've got to be honest with yourself of as to Have you done those things already, right? Are you starting from a platform of strength, which with to plant those seeds and grow those seeds that will form, you know, this beautiful array of what your realignment could be, right?

Starting point is 00:16:03 And so planting seeds is really important. Again, always easier to do if you are employed and engaged in the workforce in some way. And so that's kind of a big safety tip that I would give, is to make sure that you're planting those seeds and doing that network, that networking and making those connections while you are still out there. So then the next step after that is really making that plan, right, making that plan of transitioning. And only, this is such a personal thing. You know, that trigger point, that catalyst of when you pull the trigger is really a personal decision, right? You know, what are the things that have you believing, you know, have you already landed a nonprofit board? And

Starting point is 00:16:48 that can be a springboard to something, right? You know, and that timing is very personal. There's no right answer or wrong answers. There's only the answer that is circumstantial and situational to you. So then you make the decision. You make the decision to then go for it, right? Now, if I think about that first year of my retirement, I should say, here are some of the things that I would share to watch out for.

Starting point is 00:17:14 And just be aware of. One is, you will go through an identity crisis. especially if you were doing similar things for a very long time. You know, for me, I had 32 plus years of, hello, I'm Ann Chow, comma, AT&T, blank, blank, blank, blank, right? And as much as I was ready, I mean, I was so ready that I thought that it would not be an emotional kind of transition. It was very much so.

Starting point is 00:17:44 Took me a couple months to get used to the fact that, hey, I'm on my own here, right? I've got no team, I've got no staff. I didn't have that identity that so many people knew me for, right? That was the thing that shaped almost who I was to so many folks out there, right? Whether it was in the community or in the business world or otherwise. So that identity shift, the more you go into it, eyes wide open, I believe the better off you'll be. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside.

Starting point is 00:18:23 So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. Slash-y-A-Mex. What a run! This champ is picking up speed.

Starting point is 00:18:39 But they found a lane. Phenomenal launch into the air. Absolutely incredible. Air trans-transats. the seven-time world's best leisure airline champions, Air Transat. Maybe it's just a phase you're going through. You'll get over it. I can't help you with that.

Starting point is 00:18:55 The next appointment is in six months. You're not alone. Finding mental health support shouldn't leave you feeling more lost. At CAMH, we know how frustrating it can be trying to access care. We're working to build a future where the path to support is clear, and every step forward feels like progress. Not another wrong turn. Visit camh.ca to help us forge a better path for mental health care.

Starting point is 00:19:21 One of my biggest takeaways is that this is a much longer transition than we might be giving it credit for, whether we're talking about rewirement, retirement, or anything else. It's kind of no matter what it is that you want retirement to look like, whether it is you don't ever want to work again or you want to continue to work at a really high capacity in some way or anything in between, reflecting on what it is that you want. Because I know a lot of people who have done the traditional retirement. I stopped working. I'm done.

Starting point is 00:19:56 And the identity crisis still happens. The fear around money, the sort of not knowing what to do with yourself, all of that to say is to, yes, reflect, think about what it is that you want, how you think you want it to look and feel and all of that. to do some basic research, even if the thing is I want to do nothing, okay, but then what does nothing look like for you? What hobbies do you think you're going to want to do? Why not start some of them now to actually see if that's something you're interested in? And then that plan of transition, going back to something that you said early on was, what are your life needs? I'm glad you

Starting point is 00:20:36 mentioned not just money, but insurance and health care and things like that. These are, I think, big issues. And also a little bit of like the inner circle of who you want to do this with. Like if I am in theory retiring or rewiring with someone else, how aligned is that experience or how we want it to look and feel because if one person wants one thing and another person wants something entirely different, like that's a conversation that needs to be had. And my biggest takeaway is that most of us are making the mistake to have these conversations, reflect, plan, research until after the transition happens as opposed to being proactive and thoughtful about it. So out of curiosity, now that you've been in rewirement for, I think you said

Starting point is 00:21:27 three years, obviously didn't look exactly the way you thought it would. I find very few things rarely do, right? But are you happy? Are you learning new things that you didn't know before about the next transition of rewirement. Like, how is it actually going, I guess, is my question. Yeah. So for me, I could not be happier. I am so grateful, you know, and I'm so thankful for all of the different opportunities, you know, which have presented themselves, including the ones that I've turned down, by the way, right? I'm so grateful to have had a choice, right? This word of choice, by the way, is a core theme of rewirement, right? What is it that you choose to do with this one precious life you have, right?

Starting point is 00:22:21 What is this thing that you choose to do? Which people do you choose to spend time with as you pointed out? So for me, I'm thrilled with a portfolio that I've got between the boards, the teaching, you know, the book, the speaking. I will confess. that one of the objectives that I had in rewirement was to start taking better care of my health. And in classic form, I did not do well. That was the lowest priority I had in the first couple of years.

Starting point is 00:22:53 Okay. And it showed, right? I mean, I still was working at a frenetic pace, albeit at many different things with no staff. Right. And no help, right, right, right. With the exception of my husband, who is now the accounting department, the IT department, the transportation department, all of those things. But this year three, I've been, you know, as I approach a milestone birthday next year, I've doubled down to now really try to create more space now that my portfolio is recently settled for my health, right, my physical health, right? My mental health has been quite good, right?

Starting point is 00:23:32 But the physical health has always been lowest on my priorities, right? It's the thing that I sacrifice the most, I think, which is not uncommon to many women. So am I still learning? Oh my gosh. I am learning so much. I mean, whether it's, you know, through the boards that I'm on, you know, the type of preparation now that I have to do, the type of studying and familiarity that I need to do, whether it's conferences that I need to go to, things that I need to read, things that I need to try. It's all sort of self. It's got to be largely self-initiated. So even in the context of the business role today, while I'm not a practitioner, I still feel quite relevant on many different areas, and in particular the area of leadership and culture and business transformation, all of which are imperatives in every single business today. So I am learning an immense amount, but I can't emphasize how strongly that you may have this vision of rewirements,

Starting point is 00:24:33 but the people that you love and you want to spend an immense amount of time with, one, they may no longer be local, right, to you. Two, they might not actually envision this, you know. And if I could share a personal story that I think might be relevant to folks, you know, many folks that I've talked to have this vision of when they have children that when they retire, right, from the regular grind, that part of their retirement slash rewirement is they want to go move closer to the children wherever they are and spend time. Hopefully there may be more children and grandbabies and grand pets and all these other things. You know, the, I had a friend tell me a couple of decades ago, like, yeah, that's a great, and she was a couple years older, she said, you know, that's a great vision. But the reality is, is that you don't want to serve as an anchor to your children, right? Their careers will ebb and flow, just like yours did. What's to say that they're not going to move around over and over and over again, right? And so on that point of, quote, unquote, settling down, may be very, very different for you, right?

Starting point is 00:25:33 And one of the things that she told me, which I can absolutely validate is true from my own experience, too, is that as you get older, it is harder to make friends, right? It is harder to find your people, the cohort of people where you're connected with, where you're intellectually compatible and emotionally compatible and, you know, socially compatible as well, right? It's harder to do because you no longer have the infrastructure of, let's say, your children's schools or your work environment, sort of a large work environment where you're constantly out there. So this idea of building community is so important. So this idea of, you know, this dream of, hey, I'm going to go move to where my kids are. It means you are going to start all over, right? And so that has also

Starting point is 00:26:18 factored into our thinking about what this could look like. You know, there's sort of like no, there's no commitments to where we may be. But it's also top of mind for me. You know, having relocated a little bit later, you know, in my career, I've experienced that. And even, you know, while I was working, that it is harder to integrate yourself into a community as you get older, right? So those structural things don't necessarily exist, right? And, you know, we all know people, sadly, that they've pivoted to this next phase of retirements and couples split up, right? Because they're not on the same page, right? This is actually a phenomenon I've seen with quite a few corporate executives, if you will, because they've spent most of their waking adult

Starting point is 00:27:04 lives apart. And then all of a sudden, all of this togetherness is not what was in the plan. It was not, you know, it's also not how their relationship was shaped. Right. So that takes work, right? That takes work as well. Again, it's all work, but it's just a different type of work, a work that you choose to do, you know, and I think these are all things that are relevant when you're thinking about rewardment. Yeah. I'm so appreciative of all of that. I'm just going to call it real talk because I think we often say or think things like, oh, we'll just live where our children live. Well, if you have multiple children, then they live multiple places. And I like this, you know, being an anchor, you know, you don't want to be the factor in whether or not they move

Starting point is 00:27:51 or take an opportunity. And also this idea of community, I see that with my own parents where it's, you know, it is really hard to make new friends. You know, you're not just surrounded by people like on a regular basis like you are at work or with your kids' activities and things like that. And I don't know if burden is the right word, but you don't want your children. I think most of us don't want our children to feel like they're responsible for our community and our connection and our happiness either. And yes, I can totally see how your relationship with your partner would completely evolve when you have that much more time.

Starting point is 00:28:27 And it's like, do we really even like each other? Do we like hanging out with each other? I mean, there's so much to this that, again, I think some forethought and treating it more like a transition would behoove all of us. So my last question is, you know, in work, we have all sorts of metrics that let us know if we're successful or not. In parenting, maybe not metrics, but I think we have ways where we define our own success as a parent. Any tips or thoughts about how we determine our success at rewiring? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I love this question. And can I confess that as a working mom, and why do we not say working dad, by the way,

Starting point is 00:29:14 who was fortunate enough to be married to a person who chose together to become the primary caregiver? So my husband retired at the age of 39 to become the primary caregiver in an era where only 10% of men were stay-at-home dads, right? So he had many issues that he was dealing with societal pressures and otherwise. And I'm grateful for the choice that we made together around that. I used to tell him that his KPIs were the children's report card. That's like a true story. I'm kind of embarrassed by that. So one of the metrics for success is.

Starting point is 00:29:51 requirement. First of all, I think a really important point that I want to make that needs to be at the foundation of all of our requirements is that there is an immense amount of research and data and more coming out that says that a key to longevity is social connection and relationships, right? So this point that we just kind of ended the last part of the conversation on around community, this is priceless, right? So it is vitally. important that you have this in your mind, right, that you will need to develop your own new network of community, your own new set of social connections, right, from transactional to meaningful, but you will, even if you're an introvert, right? And I am, you know, introverted

Starting point is 00:30:40 engineer by, you know, by sort of my origins. You will need to have connection with more than just one person, right? More than just your family, right? So that, that is critical. And I'll give you an example of that. And then I'll go to the close with the, how I think about success in the context of rewirement metric-wise is my parents followed us to Texas a couple years after we moved. And it was not something that I expected them to do or wanted, you know, I of course secretly wanted to them to do it, but I didn't ask them to do it. And they moved into one of those continuing care retirement communities. And I, and this was right before the pandemic, I am a hundred percent confident that their choice to place themselves into a community of people elongated their

Starting point is 00:31:35 lives. I absolutely, I lost my father at the end of last year. And I believe that the fact that my mother is still in that community is absolutely part of how she will continue to, you know, live hopefully as long as she possibly can, right? It's the fact that she has built-in social connection. She's not ever alone if she doesn't want to be, right? And it is a beautiful thing of how many of these retirement communities, these senior communities have evolved, that I would say break what some of the old paradigms of what retirement communities are about, right?

Starting point is 00:32:13 So I'm a huge fan of them from first and experience. So how do you measure? How do you measure rewirement? I would say it's not quantitative, but it is all in, it is all in you, right? So rewirements, if I could try to put it succinctly is, rewirement is about joy, not happiness, right? It goes beyond happiness, which can be episodic and momentary. It is about joy which comes from inside.

Starting point is 00:32:42 So how joyful is your life? Okay. The other important dimension of rewirement is fulfillment. How fulfilled do you feel, right? Which directly feeds into how much joy you're experiencing. Fulfillment is different than success and achievement, right? You can be successful and achieve a lot and meet tons of goals. You could be, you know, you know, Buku rich.

Starting point is 00:33:10 right you know from a traditional standpoint but you may not at all be fulfilled right and so to me the measurements of of rewirement a successful requirement is would you characterize your life in this moment in this era as being joyful and fulfilled most of the time so that's how I would measure it. And that is a individual, personal, also changes, you know, from moment to moment to year to year day to day that only each of us know for ourselves. Yeah. And thank you for helping us rethink retirement and giving us the skill of rewirement at any stage we care to use it. So I just want to make sure our listeners can find and follow you. So the website is theanchow.com. You can also find Anne on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Starting point is 00:34:08 And I do hope that if we are following you on any one of those, that we do see a rewirement book in our future. But, you know, only if it brings you joy and helps you feel fulfilled. Thank you for being our guest today. And I so appreciate this conversation, this concept, and your ongoing work. Thank you. It's been my pleasure to be with you again. My pleasure.

Starting point is 00:34:29 Okay. So here's what I'm walking away with. Retirement doesn't just mean the end of something. It can be the beginning and a transition to something else. So if you're anything like me, ambitious, driven, pulled by purpose, then the idea of a full stop doesn't feel freeing. It feels foreign. But rewirement, that feels right.

Starting point is 00:34:49 It makes space for the truth, that who we are evolves, that our purpose can shift, that our value isn't tied to just our productivity, and that our worth doesn't expire once we stop clocking in. And we don't have to wait for a specific age or date. to do any of that. Whether you're nearing or starting that transition or still decades away, this isn't just a future you conversation. It's a right now invitation to start imagining, to start rewiring, to let go of the outdated narrative that says work is who you are and retirement is when you disappear. Because we never disappear. We rewire to reflect both who you

Starting point is 00:35:26 are now and who you're becoming. And all of that, my friend, is woman's work. Thank you.

This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Why “Rewirement” Beats Retirement (and How to Do It Right) with Anne Chow | 350

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.