This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil - Why Working Harder Won’t Get You Promoted with Patty Azzarello | 427

Episode Date: August 12, 2026

Women are often told that working harder is the key to getting ahead. Deliver exceptional results, say yes to every opportunity, support the team, and eventually someone will notice. But for many women, that strategy doesn't lead to promotions—it leads to becoming indispensable in the very role they're trying to outgrow. In this episode of This Is Woman's Work, Nicole Kalil sits down with Patty Azzarello—author, speaker, business advisor, and former Fortune 500 executive—to unpack the unwritten rules that shape career advancement. Drawing from her own journey from awkward introvert to CEO before the age of 40, Patty shares the lessons she learned about visibility, executive presence, influence, and why competence alone is rarely enough to build a successful career. In This Episode, Nicole and Patty Discuss: Why being excellent at your job can actually keep you stuck in it. The hidden career rules that no one teaches—but everyone is expected to know. The difference between being busy, being valuable, and being visible. Why women often take on "office housework" that doesn't advance their careers. How to identify the work that creates the greatest value for the business. Practical strategies for saying no without damaging relationships. Why executive presence is often poorly defined—and how to build it authentically. How bringing humanity to leadership creates greater influence than trying to be impressive. Why visibility matters just as much as performance when it comes to promotions. Simple ways to build relationships with senior leaders and decision-makers. The power of asking for help as a leadership skill. Why waiting until you feel ready often keeps you from your biggest opportunities. How healthy conflict strengthens leadership and decision-making. The career cost of constantly taking care of everyone else. This conversation is a wake-up call for anyone who has been told that hard work alone is enough. Patty offers a refreshing, practical perspective on what actually drives career growth—and how to start making those shifts today.  Thank you to our sponsors! Don't wait to teach your kids real-world money skills! Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at Greenlight.com/TIWW.  Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode! Connect with Patty: Website: https://pattyazzarello.com/  LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pattyazzarello   IG: https://www.instagram.com/pazzarello777/  Related Podcast Episodes: 162 / Compensation Myths with Kelli Thompson Leadership Unblocked (The Hidden Beliefs Sabotaging Your Ability To Lead) with Muriel M. Wilkins | 367 Why Work Feels Broken (And How Attunement Can Fix It) with Nidhi Tewari | 406 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review:Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Quick pause. We expanded to YouTube because we keep hearing I needed this 20 years ago and the next generation shouldn't have to wait. So tell the young women in your world who are scrolling and watching

to subscribe to This Is Woman's Work on YouTube. I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the This Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing women's work in the world today

with confidence and the occasional rant. And today's rant? The fact that women can do literally everything, exceed goals, lead teams, save projects, make companies millions of dollars, and still somehow get performance evaluations like we're contestants in a personality pageant because men are often judged on results. And in my experience, as long as they get those results, they can get away with acting like complete dicks. women were judged on result plus tone, like ability, emotional labor, whether we smiled enough or too intense or ambitious, a my personal favorite corporate feedback phrase that somehow means absolutely nothing and everything at the same time, you need to work on your executive

present. Great. Super measurable. I'll get right on that. Which brings us to one of the biggest career lies women have been sold, that if you just work hard enough, someone will notice and reward you accordingly. But what they often notice is, wow, she can do everything. And that becomes the trap. Because doing all the things is not the same thing as being visible. Being busy is not the same thing as being influential and being appreciated is absolutely not the same thing as being promoted. And listen, I've had women tell me that they don't relate to these examples, to these unique challenges at work. And then 20 minutes later, tell me about how they're they're still the one taking on all the special projects,

mentoring everyone, managing the household, being the go-to for every kid issue there is, emotionally supporting everyone within a five-mile radius and somehow still being described as not strategic enough for promotion because they're two, and I put in air quotes, in the weeds. So today we're talking about the career rules that we haven't been taught, the cost of being the reliable one, the danger of being so capable that you become operational wallpaper.

why nobody knows you can stall your career and why women are often navigating standards and leadership models built by and for men and then being blamed when they don't fit inside them. And thankfully, we're having this conversation with someone who tells the truth about all of it with honesty, humor, and zero corporate fairy tale nonsense. Patty Azarello is a author, speaker, business advisor, and former tech executive whose new book, Why Is She Still Here, My Ungraceful Journey from the playground to the boardroom is a sharp, funny, painfully honest look at building a high-powered career while also panicking on the inside. Patty became the youngest general manager at Hewlett-Packard at 33, ran a billion-dollar software business at 35, and became a CEO at 38. And today, through

Azarello Group, she works with CEOs and leadership teams to help businesses and the people inside them get better at what they do. Patty, thank you for being our guest. And I want to start with a tough paradox many of us find ourselves in. And that is, wind is being excellent at your job become the thing that's keeping you stuck there. Oh, man. That is the million dollar question, right? Well, not only is that the million dollar question, but particularly for women, it's always, it's something we do for all time, it starts in school. Like we're all the little Lisa Simpson super students. And you wear out.

Like you just being so excellent all the time. And all of the things you mentioned in your introduction, it really takes a toll on your life force. Work is an exchange of life force for money. You got to get that bad. balance right. You have to get that balance in a way that you're excelling at your work, but you're also liking your life. You have enough energy left over for your life. Your company can absorb an unlimited amount of work from you and not really care about you and your well-being. So I have

experienced this myself. I see other people experience it. I see a lot of women experience it. It's this idea that excellent work is going to get you promoted. And so you just try to be more and more and more and more excellent. And that's not what gets you promoted. That's what keeps you from getting fired. And there are so many other unwritten rules that are the things that get you promoted that if you're only focused on being excellent, you get stuck because you missed the game. Okay.

So I want to talk about a lot of these unwritten rules. But with this one particularly, it took me a long time to unravel this. If we think about people at the highest levels of any career, they're typically very narrow in their focus. They're typically very specialized, very niched, very, I don't know, whatever you want to say. They are very clear on what they do and they focus on that. Whereas I think we as women with this being,

excellent, we kind of mean being excellent at everything and doing everything and saying yes to everything. And we make our work very wide. And so it's really hard for people to see us in a specialized role when we're doing everything. And so we're almost unconsciously creating our own problems. What are your thoughts or reactions to that? Yeah. So in the every, so I always say don't even ever try to do everything. You're never going to get everything done. So just don't even have that as a goal. Because it's really important to understand what is possible and what is not possible.

And everything is not possible. But what I see women doing is their unfair share of what I call office housework. And so not only are they trying to be good at everything, they're the ones that are organizing the templates and collecting the information for the strategy plan and and leading the committees and organizing the Christmas party. Like it all, it all falls on them. And they think, well, if I'm going to be excellent, I have to do everything that's asked of me because if I say no to something that's asked of me, that's going to be a black mark. And if I get another one, they're going to bounce me out of the room. Like it's this constant panic of everybody's looking for a reason to

bounce you out of the room and saying no to something or not being or not doing something and not doing it excellently is going to be the thing that takes you down. And it's quite the opposite. Trying to do everything is the thing that takes you down. And what I learned in my own career and it was interesting for me because I had some health issues growing up and into my career. And it's not anything extraordinary or even interesting, but I always felt like I had less energy than a normal person. That I had to navigate my career with less ability to just muscle through all of the work. But I was ambitious and I wanted to get promoted and I wanted to stand out. And I saw people coming early, staying late, working weekends, doing emails after dinner, working, working, working.

And I just thought, I'm going to die. I simply don't have enough life force to work on that kind of schedule, but I'm ambitious and I want to get promoted. So I was sort of backed into a corner needing to figure out the thing that we all need to figure out. And I only figured it out because I was backed into a corner. And it was, I need to figure out what's valuable here. I need to figure out what are the things that contribute most to the business, either to the bottom line to the customer experience. I really have to understand what makes this business go and apply my efforts to those few things, as you were saying, not try to do everything,

but apply my efforts to those few things that were adding the most value. And I tell you, when I started doing that, life got better and my career started taking off and I was getting access to promotions. And I was disappointing some people. Like, I didn't say yes to everything. And one of the things I had to learn is you don't always just have to say no. You can finesse it a little bit. This is another one of those things is just say, I'll get to that later. And back to your intro of women are judged on how we make people feel more than the results. Being the person who says no all the time is the wrong, is the wrong feeling, right? You're not, you're not being who you're expected to be. But if you can say, I'm working on this super important priority that has

this value to the business, I think you'll agree. Isn't that this is important? I love your thing. It's on my list. Let me get back to you in a week or so and we'll talk about it again. You don't even have to say no, but you have to protect your time to work on high value things and you need to protect that with your life. Yeah. I've also heard in situations like this, not every time, but sometimes that's just a great opportunity

to advocate for somebody else. Like so-and-so on my team would crush it at this project because we are expected as women to be others focused. So playing into that, being a team player without doing everything by supporting and encouraging other people,

I think that can be a good option in moments like that. Okay, let's talk about something I mentioned. in my intro that focus on executive presence, strategic thinking. I think we as women get a lot of feedback around that. Like that's something we need to work on. While I often see, and this isn't a knock on men, this is just a knock on what I'm noticing is it's like women are getting this feedback of more executive presence, more strategic thinking, but then men who aren't doing either of those things any better are getting the promotion and the opportunity. What's the deal with that? So I think this idea of,

of executive presence and strategic thinking is part of something that is so fundamental to the work environment and that it's if you are not part of the default group, there's low expectations. You're not expected to be strategic. You're not expected to be competent. And I think as women, when we're young, when we enter the workforce, the way we deal with that is to just be very serious. I'm going to be very serious so that people will take me seriously and stop treating me like a little girl and or stop hitting on me because those are the two treatments you get as a young woman. The problem is then you use that seriousness as a strategy. It is a self-defense mechanism. You grow in your career and then everybody says, oh, she's too serious. We can't relate to her.

You're cold, right? It's back to this how you make people feel. It's like, oh, my God, what what do I have to do here to get a win? And I think that executive presence thing is the same thing. I see a lot of male executives that do not have very good executive presence. Some of them do. Some of them don't. But executive presence is a woman, there's not a clear definition for what that means. And so we're all just sort of scrambling trying to figure out,

how to how to overcome this. You know, a lot of women get told, you don't have enough gravitas. And part of me always translates that to, you don't have enough penis. There's no amount of gravitas that you could have that is going to get all of the feedback to go away. So what I decided to do,

do in my own career was to translate this feedback about executive presence and gravitas, not into like acting differently or acting more important or being bigger or managing my image. I just, I threw all that out the window. And instead, what I decided was to give myself permission to bring my humanity to work. And that worked so much better. And what I mean by that, and I'm like, I described myself in my book as an awkward introvert. I was always the awkward one growing up. So I've had to overcome that throughout my life and my career as well.

As an introvert in the awkwardness, I was like terrible at small talk. I hated small talk. It just was every bit of that was agonizing. But what I finally allowed myself to do, you know, jumping, you know, experimenting and then jumping to the end of those many years is instead of trying to be impressive. I would meet a big scary executive and I would sit in a calm manner and say, hi, how's your day going? How's your week going?

And I'd shut up. And then they would come back and they would tell me. And then that was like the keys to the kingdom for this awkward introvert because it gave me, they told me their mood. They told me, did they want to get right down to business? Did they want to tell me, oh my God, you have no idea. Did they want to talk about their family?

They started making that human connection. And then I was able to participate in that conversation. And more importantly, what I learned from that in terms of executive presence is always let the audience or the listener guide you as to the kind of information they want, the mood they're in, the amount of detail they want, and let them help to find the problems you're solving together. I've become more convinced over the years that good health isn't about one dramatic decision or big change. It's about the small choices you make over and over again.

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The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. The first ever All-Electric 26 Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the Trail Obsessed, with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all. All-wheel drive, make the 2026 Trail Seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit Subaru.ca. You mentioned something earlier that I'm curious to your thoughts on, because I've actually given this advice a couple of times, I'm not sure it's great advice, but when people say you need

to work on your executive presence or strategic thinking, my response is always, can we get more information? Can you ask them to define that? Give examples. How do they notice? How would they measure that. You have to do it in a not shitty way, right? Like if you're annoyed by it and you're like, well, I need you to define that. What is, you know, or why is so and so getting the promotion when they don't? Like, you have to be very neutral in your approach. But what I have found is we're throwing out this terminology as if we all know what we're talking about. And the reality is most people don't even know what they're talking about. They don't even know what they mean. It's just sort of a term. And we tend to.

accept it, like, okay, I'll go work on my executive presence. Again, as if we have any idea what they mean and specifically how we would model that, how they would notice, I think, you know, just digging into what we're actually talking about as a worthwhile conversation. Yeah, absolutely. I had a mentor that really helped me with some definitions. And all of my mentors were men, by the way. There are good ones out there, and my career would have been nowhere without good men giving me access and opening doors for me and helping me with questions like this one. Same. And there were some very simple things, my mentor told me. He's like, when you enter a room, people should know that you're there.

Don't lurk at the edge. Walk right to the middle of the room and start a conversation with someone. If you are hosting your team, don't just like go out to dinner with your team. Create a moment. It doesn't have to be more than 20 seconds, but stand up, thank people for coming, show up as the leader of the team. Another thing that I kind of built on that that worked really well was I was always trying to lift up the people on my team and elevate them and give them visibility and opportunities. So in the big meeting where all of the muckety mucks were, I would have them do the bulk of the presentation. But I would always bookend it. People need to know you're in the room.

I would stand up. I'd give the intro. I'd talk about why it was so important. I'd do a nice promotion for the employee. They'd come up, do the thing, and then I'd bookend it and I close it and talk about next steps and so forth. And just things like that. And a lot of it is just being willing to be. present. Yeah. There's one thing I always say is no one is ever more impressive when they're

trying to be impressive. Like that's just an icky thing. People can see that you're trying too hard, right? So when you have those moments, just giving yourself permission to relax and say, I'm allowed to be here. I'm allowed to stand in this space. I'm allowed to have a voice and I'm allowed to just be a human and smile and greet people like a human and stop over, overselling and over explaining. I just read a quote on this that knocked me out. It said, over explaining is a form of begging. Interesting. Yeah. You gave a few examples in there, but I wanted to ask what you believe women are misunderstanding about visibility at work and how important this is? I had just a quick story. When I first had my first executive role in a big

company over the first year, I just knocked it out of the park. This is a story that's in the book. And I'll spare all of the details. But I really knocked it out of the park. And I'm so excited to go get my conversation with my boss about my raise. And I went through all the things I accomplished. she's like, Patty, this has been amazing. This so far exceeded my expectations, anyone's expectations. Thank you so much. And then when we got to the part about my raise, my raise was zero percent. It was nothing.

And I was like, what? How does this conversation match? Like, he was also newish to the company. And he said, I tried. I really tried, but nobody knows you. And I'm just like, what do you mean nobody knows me? Like, what does that have to do with anything? My brain couldn't even take in the connection between nobody knows you, this work I had accomplished and no raise.

He did a very good thing for me in that moment. He gave me a list of executives across the company and then said, you need to go meet these people. And here I am, this awkward introvert with I'm supposed to network. I'm supposed to meet strangers. Like so many things seemed wrong with this to try and talk to them when we didn't. have a pre-arranged topic, this was horrifying to me. But I did, I don't know, maybe 15 of these over the course of a year and the world changed. One of them turned into a mentor, a sponsor, opened a door for me that got me a giant leap forward into a role I never would have seen.

I never would have accessed without my boss encouraging me to get through this. Nobody knows you. And then when I became an executive, I was the one on those committees making decisions about people. And I was always more connected with the people at the lower levels because I like to respect people and treat them like humans and know them and thank them for their work and those kinds of things. So I knew a lot more people who were being discussed in the committee than the rest of the committee. And man, the number of times when if there were five names and I knew all five, the one that got the thing, the raise the promotion, the special project was nowhere near the most competent. But it was the one who the most people knew their name. And it's awful. But that is so how it works.

And I think it's so not fair that I think a lot of people, a lot of women miss this because it just doesn't make any sense. sense. But, you know, I had my eyes open to that by all that effort and not getting a raise. And I'm thankful for that. It all worked out in the end for me. But I'm thankful that I got that insight as early as I did. Yeah. Whether it's fair or not, I think is beside the point at this point. It's what we need to know in order to create the work and a life that we want. And what we need to know is you get yourself noticed. Somebody isn't going to come along and just notice you. I've shared this example on the show before, but in my previous work, I would go to these conferences and I'd see my male counterparts meeting with the powers that be the executives, the corporate leaders, across the company, you know, and I'd be like, furious. I spent a couple years being furious that I was being missed and discounted and disrespected and that's because I'm a woman.

And, you know, I was having this conversation with one of my colleagues. and he was like, none of these people are reaching out to us. We are reaching out to them and asking to meet with them while we're here and taking advantage of these opportunities. You're not being missed. You're just not asking. And it was like a slap in the face that I absolutely needed because when I reached out for the next conference,

I think I lined up like eight or nine one-on-one meetings, nobody said no. It just I didn't know that these people weren't sitting around waiting or deciding who they're going. going to meet with is our job to get noticed. When you're the only woman in the room, when you're the only woman in sight and everybody's having these conversations and they're in their groups and their conversation circles, it's so easy to think, I'm not welcome.

I'm not wanted. I'm not invited. It's just you're the only one and they're all doing their thing and they all look relaxed and like they're have deep and important conversations. And I had the same reaction. I looked at these, these men all talking to each other, and I'm thinking, this is where everything happens. In this job, in every job in the whole world, this is where it all happens.

And I'm not part of these conversations. And so I also, I learned the same thing. It's like in life's game of musical chairs, you just have to go grab an extra chair and shove it in the circle and sit down and say, I'm here, they're all still talking and they're still mostly ignoring you. Like, don't get uncomfortable and leave. Stay in it and listen. Listen like your life depends upon it because the more times you get yourself in those rooms and get yourself in those circles and you listen, because you're not doing all the talking, you have the opportunity to see things and form

connections that they're all missing. And then you can put some idea or initiative or recommendation together that just blows everybody's mind just because you shoved your chair in the circle and you listened and now you're super smart. Yeah. What are your thoughts as women about asking for help? Power move or avoid it like the plague? Oh, power move. Absolutely power move. It's been, I couldn't have done anything I've done without help and I ask for help constantly. Okay. And then what do you think about the cost of waiting. I think a lot of us are waiting to feel ready or like we have all the knowledge, the experience, the information, the competence, the credibility before we go after the next

thing. What are your thoughts on that? Yes, you will die waiting. Don't keep waiting. You have to go for things and see what happens and eventually one will stick. What are your thoughts on, I think a lot of women are taught to avoid conflict when the reality. is leadership requires tension conflict. It requires having difficult conversations. So how do we navigate this paradox? Be the one to deal with conflict in a productive way. A lot of times we just think all conflict is nasty and it's not.

Conflict is productive. Conflict, anytime you have a decision to make, it's a conflict. Yes or no, which one? getting comfortable with that sort of conflict allows you to be the one to move things forward. And it's absolutely fundamental to success. Yeah. Okay. What is one workplace behavior that you believe that women think is helping their career but is actually hurting it? Taking care of everybody. Good one.

Yeah. Look around. Like if you're taking care of everybody and nobody else is taking care of everybody, That's just taking time away from what you could be doing on these high value things that are going to really make you stand out as a valuable player in the business. My last question is around this thing that I think many of us do as women is we talk ourselves out of opportunities or promotions or raising our hand or putting ourselves in that uncomfortable room or reaching out to meet with. the power of the B or whoever, like fill in the blank. We do this all over the place in our lives. So how do we as women stop disqualifying ourselves? And I know from the book that you have a personal example of this as well. Yeah.

I almost didn't even show up for the biggest promotion of my career. My career-making promotion, I had disqualified myself. I looked at that job and thought, wow, like that's, exactly the job that I want. It was to run a billion dollar software business, had thousands of people all over the world. I was 35 and I thought, someday, back to your waiting thing, right? Someday, that's the job I want, but I'm not ready now. And thankfully, my mentors, like, they all came to the rescue and they're like, Patty, we don't see your name on this list. What are you doing? And I'm like, me, that job? I'm not, that's way too big. I'm not ready for that job.

and they're like, Patty, you have to interview. And I'm like, no one will take me seriously for that job. And they showed me a list of the other people interviewing for that job. All of them were men. And many of them hadn't even been a general manager at all. Like, I'd been a general manager, a smaller thing, at least. And I was like, oh, my God, if they think they're allowed to interview for this job, I must.

I must interview for this job. And so I really, I got my nerve up and I went to interview for this job. And this was a business where I didn't have any experience in the content of the job. I had a lot of experience as being a general manager and leading. And I got into the interview and they said, okay, Patty, like, what are you doing here? You don't have any general or you don't have any network management experience. and that was true. And that was a moment.

Am I going to disqualify myself in this interview or not? And I had a choice to make. Am I going to get defensive and try to over-explain, or am I going to go for it? And I thought, I'm going to go for it. So I said, you have 3,000 people in this business who are network management experts. You don't need another one.

You need me. And why you need me is because you're in a business that's losing market share in a growing market. And I went on to outline all of the business leadership qualities and organization leadership qualities that I brought. And I said, that's why you need me. And I left that interview. And I was like, oh, my God, what did I just do?

And I went and hid it in the bathroom. And that was a big swing. And I was just like, I can't believe I just did that. But I got the job. And so what I'd love to leave people with is this idea of being scared does not mean you're disqualified. Break that link. Scared does not mean unqualified. And never, ever, ever be the one to disqualify yourself.

Let others disqualify you. I went for plenty of promotions. And they said no. And they told me why. And I learned something. Like always let others disqualify you. Never ever disqualify. yourself because you're going to spend your life waiting.

And that's not what you really want. It's not helpful. So I just encourage you. Just because you're scared does not mean you're disqualified, everyone is scared. Everyone who's trying to do something new or bigger is scared. I always say the most worthwhile things I've ever done in my life, I've been at least equal parts excited and equal parts scared. and sometimes it's more scared than excited or I vacillate between the two,

but I have never just been 100% excited about anything worth doing. There has to be an element of fear because it's unknown. It's big. It's exciting. It's you're putting yourself out there. So I couldn't agree more. And I love this idea of like, let the other people disqualify you if they want to. We should first and foremost be an advocate for ourselves.

So, Patty, thank you. I know our listener is going to want to learn more. probably can relate to a lot of these examples. So the book is called Why Is She Still Here? And you can also find out more about Patty and her work at patty azarello.com. We're going to put the links in all the ways to find and follow her in show notes. But again, the book is why is she still here? Available wherever you buy books, but let's keep our local bookstores in business. Patty, thank you for an incredible conversation. Thank you, Nicole. This was super fun. It was my pleasure. All right, friend, if today's conversation reminds you of anything,

it be this. Working harder is not always the path forward. Being useful is not the same thing as being valued and leadership does not require you to become smaller, softer, or easier to digest. Or harder, louder, colder, or anything other than a growth-oriented version of you and your humanity. The goal shouldn't be to fit into the mold. Maybe it's to question why they're trying to pour you into plaster in the first place. So be visible, take up space, ask for help, say the thing, go for the opportunity before you feel ready and for the love of all things holy stop confusing busyness with success get out there and break some molds because that is woman's work hey all it's kelly clarkson with wayfar ever order furniture online and wonder what if like what if it doesn't hold up that sofa

was four days old you should have ordered from wayfair with wayfair there's no what if just style you love and quality you can trust visit wayfair.ca wayfair every style every home david gardner here for more than 30 years i've been searching for the market's greatest rule breakers, the companies, ideas, and leaders that change the world and reward investors playing the long game all the way through. On rule breaker investing, we go beyond the headlines and the hype to explore the mindset, the strategies and stories behind truly transformational investing. If you're looking for hot tips, this may not be the show for you, but if you want to become a smarter, happier, richer, investor and successful human being as well over time. Join me every week on Rule Breaker investing.

Fool on. Every Wednesday we talk AI, robotics and all the smart do-hickies all around us on intelligent machines. Hi, this is Leo Leport from the Twitter Podcasting Network inviting you to join me, Jeff Jarvis and Paris Martino. Our guest, Henry Blodgett. He was there at the dot-com crash in 2008. Now he's all in on AI. Is he here for the 2026 AI crash? Find out this week on intelligent machines. You'll find it at twit.tv slash IAM or wherever you get your podcasts. Every Wednesday we cover Microsoft on Windows Weekly.

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