This Paranormal Life - #146 The Hill Abduction

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

This week we investigate one of the first reported abduction cases in the USA. When Betty and Barney Hill both return home with a chunk of their memory missing, they seek out the help of a specialist who uncovers the terrifying truth of what happened that night.Support us on Patreon.com/ThisParanormalLife to get access to weekly bonus episodes!Buy Official TPL Merch! - thisparanormallife.com/storeFollow us on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTubeJoin our Secret Society Facebook CommunityResearch by Amy GrisdaleEdited by Louis BlatherwickIntro music by www.purple-planet.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When bears hibernate, do they have one really long dream? Can I marry a hologram, or is that weird? All these questions you can find the answer to on This Paranormal Life. Hello everyone, welcome to This Paranormal Life, the comedy paranormal podcast where every week myself, Rory Powers, and this guy over here, Kit Greer, investigate. You're just saying yes a lot and that's throwing me off i'm doing active listening bro that's when i just like let you know that i'm listening let you know i'm right here with you sure it gives you a little more confidence

but i'm just trying to get through and when we're doing this story well you're derailed and i have all my active listening is going to waste buddy actively you're f***ing up the intro to the show hey i'm not the one who up the intro to the show. I'm not the one who did the intro. I'm not the one who brought it off course. Every week, we investigate a brand new paranormal... A brand new paranormal tale, case, claim, or beast. And come to a conclusion as to whether or not it is real. That's just coughing.

That's just coughing. You didn't even say anything. It was just making it seem like a lively audience. You ever heard a lively debate? How about we try some active listening with just, it's just a nod. Nice nod to let me know that you're in the room. Right there with you, bud. Can't wait.

This week we've got a great email suggestion from Cariel Homer and Steve Atkins. Thanks, guys. They emailed in and suggested a case called the Betty and Barney Hill case, a story of UFOs, alien abductions, and star maps. Whoa. Immediately, I was hooked. So, Steve and Cariel, you're going to get what you wished for. It's time for us to investigate.

Quick disclaimer, a lot of the info today is coming straight from Wikipedia. What? For some reason, Wikipedia has an insanely comprehensive log of all of the events that took place. An almost suspiciously comprehensive log. Yeah. It knew what people ate for breakfast, weirdly. This is also gonna be a big one, folks. So get ready for the ride of your lives.

We've got to tackle a lot of things very quickly. No multitasking, all right? I see you guys washing the dish. Yeah. Washing the dish while you try to listen to the bish. You're on Twitter while you're listening to the podcast. Lock your screen and look at your dead-eyed reflection in the glass. That's all

you need to see right now, guys. We need your full attention. But also if you are on your phone, just go into iTunes, five stars on the app. Just give us a quick little review. Then put that shit down. What are you doing in the iTunes store in the first place? Put that shit down. That was a test and you failed. It was September 19th, 1961, around 10.30 at night. The Hills had just finished a vacation visiting Niagara Falls, and were on their way back to their home in Portsmouth. They're driving through the dark, radio on low, trying to make it home before it got too late. When Betty noticed a light glowing faintly in the sky, it looked like a shooting star coming down to Earth, but its movement was too erratic. Occasionally it was even moving upward.

They both kept an eye on the object as they drove, until Betty urged Barney to stop the car so they could go out and take a look. So they pulled the car over. Betty grabbed a pair of old binoculars from the back seat and tried to get a better look at the object. She said it was odd shaped and had multicolored lights. Barney was like, gave me those goggles you crazy old woman and decided to take a look for himself, skeptical of what she was talking about.

Barney said, oh that's not a ufo it's some sort of commercial airliner they're probably going to vermont on its way to wait a minute barney froze it looked like the object had turned and was beginning to descend in their direction. That's not good. We should go, Barty said. Are we in Vermont? The couple quickly hopped back into the car and sped down the road, eager to move away from whatever the strange object was. But their night was only getting started. The Hills continued to drive on the dark road,

keeping an eye on the object that seemed to be following them as they drove they watched the strangely silent craft erratically back and forth moving in the night sky at one point the object quickly descended towards the vehicle barney slammed on the brakes stopping in the middle of the highway what the is this thing what does it want i have taken some liberties uh okay by including the dialogue in the story i'm just assuming based on the testimonies that this is the dialogue that was happening so what kind of impression did you get of barney that you thought he's got an itchy trigger finger and he's scared this commercial airliner to vermont right is is flying pretty low all of a sudden and you think that's jurassic park style okay

you think that's got his trigger finger itchy also what are you basing that on has he ever shot anything barney grabbed his gun and left the car okay while Benny waited inside. Is that an artistic liberty or? He genuinely had a gun with him. It's a real gun. Yeah, I think he served in World War II. So he was an officer in the army. Given that he survived. He did.

On account of his itchy trigger finger. Yes. Jurassic Park style. Using the binoculars, Barney glanced upward at the craft that was now hovering in the sky above their car barney said he saw 8 to 11 humanoid figures oh my god peering out of the craft's windows looking down at him if it's 8 to 11 the number does not matter it is many many alien figures you don't have time to count at that point it is 8 to 11 times the amount of aliens that are currently understood to exist. They were all wearing glossy black uniforms and black caps.

Caps? I think he means like military. They're like a Ferrari pit crew or some shit. I think he means like military sort of caps. I don't know what they're called. It's still weird. As he locked eyes with one of the creatures, he could feel a

message being sent to him. Stay where you are and keep looking. As the craft lowered itself down towards Barney, he tore the binoculars away from his eyes. F*** that! And sprinted back to the car.

He jumped inside screaming, they're gonna capture us! At this point, the object was right in front of the vehicle. Barney slammed his foot on the pedal and took off down the road, yelling at Betty to keep an eye on the object. She rolled down the window to look, and almost immediately, they heard a rhythmic What? Like that? And then, all of a sudden, the noises stopped, and the craft was gone. What? Like that? Yeah. Here's where it gets really interesting. They were wondering what happened. Did it disappear? Did it just take off? Barney looked at the road.

Wait a minute. Where are we? He said. The Hills found that they had traveled nearly 35 miles down the road but neither of them could remember the journey at all this three four hour trip home took seven hours to complete and a number of those hours they can't recall anything so to recap they were coming home from their holiday niagara falls coming home home, obviously, the route they had planned. They were going to get home by a certain time. And they arrived several hours later than they expected to. Yeah, after coming in contact with this strange craft.

That's interesting because logistically, they'd have to con for that time. They would have to drive two hours in the wrong direction for it to take that long to get back. And it sounds like they drove two hours up which is pretty wrong sounds like they drove two hours smargin yeah right past the zontar commission through the wrong dimension yeah the couple arrived home exhausted scared and they experienced a number of strange impulses that they couldn't explain. Betty, for some reason, insisted that they place all their luggage by the back door,

while Barney was compelled to examine his genitals in the bathroom. Okay. That's a bit of a weird one. Yes. Is this a side effect of the craft, or is this a kind of men are from mars women are from venus type deal what you check the luggage and i'll check my penis yeah is the is the guy kind of on a one track mind kind of thing he's like let's just make sure the family jewels are intact i think this is a unusual experience but there was more the leather strap on barney's binoculars were torn betty's dress

was ripped and had a strange pinkish powder on it and possibly the strangest of all both of their watches were broken uh i think there were a couple other things as well um barney's nice dress shoes had scrapes on them uh at the front almost as if he'd been dragged. Yeah. A lot of just weird, unsettling things going on. But as far as their physical condition was concerned, they were unharmed, right? The dick is fine. I just wanted to double check. The package is secure.

Because I'm kind of concerned that if aliens show up, I didn't realize they'd be going for the newts. Straight in there, yeah. The couple didn't know what to do or who to talk to. People would think they were crazy. And if things weren't bad enough, this is when Betty's dreams started. Oh boy. Ten days after the encounter, Betty began having horrible, vivid dreams of what took place that night. Wikipedia says, in one dream, she and Barney encountered a roadblock and men who surrounded their car. She lost consciousness and struggled to regain it. She then realized she was being forced by two

small men to walk in a forest in the nighttime. She saw Barney walking behind her, but when she called to him, he seemed to be in a trance. The men stood about five feet to five feet four inches tall and wore matching blue uniforms with caps similar to those worn by military cadets. They appeared nearly human, but with black hair, dark eyes, prominent noses, bluish lips, and gray gray skin that doesn't sound like a human it said they appeared nearly human and then listed a lot of things that aren't very human yeah but at the same time they're they're still humanoid i mean they have lips for christ's sake i get and eyes and hair the gray skin's a bit of a right bit of a right turn. But okay, yeah, sure, I can see that. Nearly human.

In the dreams, Betty, Barney, and the men walked up to a ramp into a disc-shaped craft of metallic appearance where herself and Barney were taken into separate rooms. Betty was seated on a chair and a bright light was shown on her. A man referred to as the examiner cut off a lock of her hair. He examined her eyes, ears, mouth, teeth, throat, and hands. He shaved trimmings from her fingernails and did some intrusive experiments. The examiner left the room and Betty engaged in conversation with, quote, the leader. She picked up a book with rows of strange symbols

that the leader said she could take home with her. She also asked from where he came, and he pulled down an instructional map dotted with stars. In Betty's dream account, the men began escorting the hills from the ship when a disagreement broke out the leader then informed betty she couldn't keep the book stating that sounds more accurate that sounds more believable stating that they had decided that the other men didn't want her to even remember the encounter betty insisted that no matter what they did to her memory she would one day recall the events wow um that's this is a lot to take in yeah so they almost let her go with a pamphlet it seems like yeah an ancient text so you've been abducted it sounds like the leader kind of took liberties there and was like yeah go like i don't know whose

book it is just take it yeah it's like a little souvenir sure he's doing a lot of things by the way he's like yeah this is where we're from here's a book of all of what can kill us just go ahead go ahead and it also seems to be like as soon as he said where they were from they were like she needs to go yeah she knows too much i like yeah i love the idea the other guys are like what are you doing you You can't give her that book. He's not the leader. He's a janitor Yeah, take the book. Yeah, no authority to give it to people at all I also really like the idea of Betty like leaving the craft and Insisting to the leader being like don't worry even without the book I know that one day my memory will be strong enough to recall these events, and I'll never forget what took place.

They f***ing jab a needle into the back of her spine, and it's like all of her memories melt out of her body. She's not going to remember anything. Old James Bond movie style karate chopper in the back of the neck. She forgets everything. Who are you again? Never you mind. I never understand in these things.

How come these aliens are always abducting people, right? Yeah. Doing experiments. Yeah. Clipping their fingernails, apparently. Which is not intrusive. I didn't mention the intrusive ones. Yeah.

Got that impression. Took a clip of her hair. So if they're at that stage of human understanding taking hair samples presumably they don't know very much about the way humans work yet how are they able to like reliably wipe their memory like presumably that takes some knowledge of how the brain works that's a really good point also i mean half the time i think the information in the conversations were telepathic yes at one point i think one of them was just speaking english yes because they have a mouth so they obviously use it maybe i don't know maybe uh erasing one's memory of an event is more of a

universal technique yeah maybe maybe they've successfully removed the memories of horses and they're like it's all mammals exactly i mean use the ray gun on the human see what happens you could break it down to you know needing to know the inner mechanisms of the human brain but when it comes to consciousness maybe that's universal damn and erasing experiences it you know is the same on with any species that's actually beautiful thank you man now betty did mention the dreams to barney but he was somewhat dismissive i think even though the event had rattled him he at least on the surface level was quite eager to move on it's a bit rude to dismiss betty's experiences but you kind of get it it sounds pretty traumatic

especially for a gentleman who has been in the war oh yeah yeah yeah he's already been a little rattled he's like listen lady i am on the edge a feather would bring this whole house of cards crumbling down in the following weeks betty did a number of things she contacted the u.s air force andICAP, a civilian-led UFO research group. Wow. Her and Barney both revisited the sites where they believed that they'd seen the object to hopefully get some sort of PTSD flashback and trigger, you know, some memories of what took place that night. Makes sense. But nothing worked.

Eventually, their research led them to Dr. Benjamin Simon, a man who offered to use hypnotism to try and uncover the repressed memories of that night. This isn't the first time we've seen hypnotism used in a UFO case. Right. I don't know how this became the go-to for uncovering repressed memories but it is it really is whenever you've got repressed memories or lost time like this it's in the faculty of the human mind i mean it's not something that you can crack open someone's head like a coconut and start digging around in there with a surgeon's knife yeah you need to you need to goddamn inception style psycho dive and unlock the secrets of your own brain through fucking metaphors and shit. Yeah.

I mean, I hope one day we get to the Inception version of this. So instead of like, oh, I'm going to, I don't know, spin the pocket wheel, pocket watch back and forward and talk to you calmly. forward and talk to you calmly i want to like load up with guns and have something jacked in the back of my head being like we're gonna go to that night in his dreams yeah and shoot these little bastards find out what's going on up there i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna take the book i'm gonna take the star map i'm gonna take the book and i'm to give them a little double barrel surprise. And this hypnotist therapist is like, okay, but don't shoot anyone. We don't fully understand how the mind works. If you kill even a single entity in the dream state, we don't know what the repercussions will be. Why are you bringing live ammunition?

We don't know if it's fatal to them. It could be like a goddamn tickle on their universe so i'm probably not terry the rocket launcher though bring the rpg okay now you're just trying to shit up no we don't know an rpg to them could be like a freaking welcoming okay it's probably not what if you wanted to tickle them bring a feather the sword terry as well the sword yeah yeah yeah oh and the landmines. Oh, yeah. And the nukes. Bring the dream nukes.

But we're not there yet. We need to hypnotize people. Like wizards. So early in their discussions, Dr. Simon could already tell that the UFO encounter was causing Barney far more worry and anxiety than he was willing to admit. So they started with Barney. This guy's a tougher nut to crack. They sat Barney down and they talked calmly, swung the pocket watch, whatever you do to hypnotize people. And suddenly Barney starts recalling all these forgotten details. Simon could see he was struggling to process it.

His mood would fluctuate. He was having emotional outbursts and screaming. And throughout the process, he kept referring to the eyes. He said they stared into his eyes with a terrifying, mesmerizing effect, saying, Oh, those eyes. They're there in my brain. I was told to close my eyes because I saw two eyes coming close to mine, and I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes. Every hypnosis session, he would talk about them again. All I see are these eyes eyes i'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body they're just there they're just close up to me pressing against my eyes jesus yeah that's a little intense this is terrifying that's when you need to like you need to play the goddamn

inception noise get all the troops back plunge him plunge him in the water push him into a bathtub of eyes whatever it takes to freak him out and wake him up so that no one gets shot by an alien i think they might have maybe momentarily regretted the hypnotherapy 100 100 yeah so after i mean they did multiple sessions with barney and actually covered a lot about what happened that night, what happened to him, his experience, and of course, a lot of eyes. So they moved on to Betty sessions. It is worth noting that each of these sessions was done independently as to not affect the other person's hypnosis session and kind of like feed them any information. Okay. So, uh betty wasn't a barney

session and vice versa yes okay yeah yeah yeah betty's hypnosis sessions revealed accounts very similar to the dreams that she'd been having of being examined on the ufo talking with the quote leader and almost getting a free book but But this is the most interesting part. Dr. Simon, who was still a little skeptical of the whole experience, said, hey, if you're getting your memories back, why not try and draw the star map that you said you saw on board the craft? So she did. And although she said the map had many stars, she drew only those that stood out in her memory.

The map consisted of 12 prominent stars connected by lines she described as trade routes. I didn't bring this up, but I know that there is a picture of it that is the actual drawing that she did based on these sessions. I'm going to find it for you right now. based on these sessions. So I'm going to find it for you right now. That would be absolutely fascinating because this is, like you say, totally non-corroborated with our partner evidence. It's some of the best and most convincing

paranormal evidence we've ever seen. Feast your eyes. Okay, wow. Betty has drawn a bong. Watch it. It's a star map. It could be a number of things, but it mostly looks like a bong with a couple ping pongs coming out of it look it's not the most exciting thing because a star

map is essentially dots yeah and trade route lines are lines okay so it looks like an incomplete connected dot sort of image you know to to be fair i mean it's possible that someone who actually knows about this shit like an astronomer that they might draw something something like this too i mean like you say space is just empty and it's filled up with dots aka stars yeah um pretty interesting the idea that these aliens might have trade routes yeah that's really going in the deep end isn't it it's very detailed because it's like oh not only do I remember certain stars, here's also the trade route. Here's where they do their goddamn shopping.

Yeah, I know. It seems like probably could have just done the constellations. It's interesting you brought up getting an astronomer involved. Because in 1968, a teacher and amateur astronomer named Marjorie Fish. She's not a fish. She's a human. Just nipping that in the bud before you snipe in with anything. No one said that.

No one said that. Heard a little carping about the story. Why'd you make a fish pun, Matt? That's just... If you didn't want us to bring up the fact that it sounds like she could be a fish. I wrote that in because I was 100% sure you were going to call her a fish. Okay, well, when we did, you should have glossed over it. Okay, well, I'm going to have to change a bunch of this shit then.

There's more? Yeah, there's a whole ton of fish puns because I thought you were going to make fun of her for being a fish. Well, even if I had. And then I was going to have to. There's something in here about her floundering. Even if I had, it wouldn't have necessitated a paragraph of fish puns. I don't think we ever really do pun gags. Something here about her friend Annette.

Like a net, a fish net. I'm going to have to cut all that. That's a stretch, man. Annette wasn't even a real character in the story. I made her up to facilitate the fish puns. That's bad journalism also. Honestly, I'm a little rattled right now. I feel like a fish out of water okay

that was the last one just get them all that was that was actually the last one is marjorie fish even real did you just want to talk about fish she actually doesn't exist okay the the real name was michael salmon it wasn't obvious enough so i had to change it to fish what it's incredibly obvious no i just thought i didn't think you were gonna go for the bait like a fish bait. See what I did there? There was actually one more. I lied.

That was the last one though. But I got you though, right? Hook, line, and sinker. That was the last one. And then it's so forth. You said the last one three times. I know. And I know that I've said that before

and I've lied. So my truths are starting to look a little fishy, but I swear to God, that's the last one. That doesn't count because it's the same thing as Marjorie Fish. Exactly. I guess we should keep going. but I swear to God that's the last one that doesn't count because it's the same thing as Marjorie Fish exactly I guess we should keep going

I mean if you want it's your investigation honestly derailed I'm so I'm all over the place now man okay I honestly thought

you were gonna make fun of her for being a fish let's just I'll just call her fish no no you're right that's worse

I think we have to move past the fish. I'll call her Marjorie. I think at this point, it's derailing the entire episode. It's kind of overshadowing somehow even the UFO investigation. You're right. You're right. We'll just push on. We'll just call her Marjorie.

How about that? Sure. Leave the fish out of it. Marjorie, fish, heard about the story and was intrigued by the star map, wondering if maybe it could be deciphered to reveal which star system the UFO had come from. It's pretty smart, isn't it? She managed to construct a three-dimensional model of nearby sun-like stars, and after studying thousands of vantage points over several

years, she discovered the only one that seemed to match the star map was the viewpoint of the double star system of Zeta Reticuli. The old Z-R words. Her conclusion was agreed with

by Walter N. Webb. Sorry, I just I was so sure you were going to do a spider pun in there. Conclusion was agreed with by Walter N. Webb. Sorry. I was so sure you were going to do a spider pun in there. I haven't offered a single pun in this episode. Honestly, that's rattled me. I wrote this episode thinking you were going to interrupt with a bunch of shit. Which is based on nothing. I've never done that before. Oh, Jesus.

Okay, fine. Sorry. By Walter N. Webb. Not a spider. A Boston astronomer, not a spider kit, who forwarded... You're out of evidence. Who forwarded... You're stalling for time.

Walter N. Webb forwarded the study to the editor of the popular magazine Astronomy, and for the first time ever in the journal's history the magazine debated a ufo report wow that's big i know it didn't sound that big because kind of overshadowed by the spider puns and the fish puns but um basically what that entire section means is that the star map that was drawn from the hypnosis sessions that betty had matched a viewpoint of the double star system of zeta reticuli which was agreed with by walter and webb a spider for christ's sake he's got like eight eyes so he can see you said he can see pretty clearly not a spider and then that was sent to an astronomy magazine where they debated ufos for the first time in the whole magazine's existence it was

the 60s things were getting weird the stars that she picked out for her drawing sufficiently matched real stars in the night sky and not only that from a specific vantage point from a star system it was crazy. That's nuts. Crazy enough to have a whole debate about it, even though I'm pretty sure the magazine article was debunking the reasons that it was wrong. Okay. Yeah.

We're not going to talk about that? Irrelevant, though. Right. And sure, Marjorie Fish, I think on her deathbed, actually, when new evidence came out, had to deny all the claims that she'd made previously, that there was somehow evidence that like the law had spoken they debated it therefore it must be somehow valid it's like no they shut you down yeah you'd be like well at least it was a conversation it's like well you yeah but it was a very short one and now you owe him money it's like still though it was up for debate who was right and who was wrong there were honestly people on both sides.

It's a crazy story. I'm not going to pretend like it's not a crazy story. I'm also not going to pretend like I didn't gloss over a ton of shit. Okay. Because I did. First off. Right. All of these hypnosis sessions are recorded.

You can listen to them. Really? Yeah. They're all on YouTube. I didn't include them for i didn't include them for two reasons really one is even though i really sexified barney's hypnosis sessions you know very scary talking about the eyes the eyes yeah that was pretty disturbing these hypnosis sessions went on for hours okay and were over days he he it wasn't just mumbled eyes once and i kind of

blew it out of proportion it wasn't just about the eyes i think i said something about he had to be put in an insane asylum that was fake uh he he pretty much it wasn't as as sexy as that he pretty much told start to finish a very coherent retelling of exactly what happened that night yeah so it wasn't just kind of like cool mumbling about the alien's eyes it was like so i went here i was taken here they took me to this room betty was here is it's not that exciting okay i mean i think at one point they ganked some of his sperm and put something up his ass, did a bunch of scraping. He didn't get a book or anything like that. But, yeah.

Bump deal. Your typical kind of UFO abduction procedures that you would think is going on. So, one, I didn't include them because. Although that would explain why he immediately went to the bathroom to check his junk. He did actually get some bumps or something on his groin. Okay. But I think that was unrelated. Yeah.

Because the doctor gave him some medication and then it went away. So that might have just been an STD. I don't know. That was fine. But the other reason I didn't include the recordings is that it's just it's his especially are pretty horrible right there's a lot of screaming involved because I think the idea is through the hypnosis you are reliving internally the events of that night I listened to the tapes and I read the transcripts and there's a lot of times where uh Dr. Simon has to be like whoa chill out you're not there you're safe it's not

happening now because he starts to believe he's there now and he just starts screaming the trigger finger was getting itchy honestly yeah but hey this is a testimony to how real this is like all our great cases at one point project blue book got? Honestly, when we started talking about them, I assumed it was like some top secret, super classified CIA project where the highest of the high were sent to investigate the most paranormal of the paranormal.

Five cases later, these guys are just showing up to anything. If you probably saw a weird looking bird, they would show up and kill it and take the body away. They were borderline like going to just random schools, show and tell. Yeah, just see what's going on. Just seeing if the kids were saying any suspicious shit.

It's insane. But they did get involved and a whole write up of the case and the entire transcript of the hypnosis sessions can be found on the cia.gov website yeah as declassified information wow take from that what you will that actually probably adds a level of believability to the case yeah that seems bad why why does the cia i don't know man barney and betty Hill's private hypnotherapy session transcripts? I'm going to tell you something, guys. You can find a lot of weird stuff on the CIA.gov website. There's a ton of very strange documents that I think they just think no one's ever going to actually find or really look for or care about.

Look at this. No one's ever gonna actually find or really look for or care about. Look at this. This is just an official US Air Force UFO form that you sign with all the details if you find a UFO. We're not gonna talk about this? This is wild. Rory has accidentally uncovered some WikiLeaks shit. You're the next Snowden brother.

Honestly, this is bananas. Check this out. Is that a UFO with a U.S. Navy sign on it? That's a UFO that America and Canada built. I'm not joking here, guys. This is the CIA.gov website. They just built a UFO in 1965 that they had to decommission because it couldn't fly more than a few feet off the air. But it says approved for release in 2001.

I can't look at this too much. It's like the sun. This is Rory. It's like Thanksgiving dinner with his family. Are we not going to talk about this? There's thousands of documents out there. I'm supposed to be grateful for a goddamn turkey? Rory, I said pass the goddamn Brussels sprouts.

Your heads are going to be vegetables, like Brussels sprouts, if you don't open up your eyes and admit the fact that we are living in a cosmic egg. You open, you blink, everyone's gone. It's December 7th. Thanksgiving was over weeks ago. We've talked a lot about the case.

I actually think some of those points I brought up at the end strengthen the argument towards this being real having the documents on the official cia website uh talking about the actual tapes of the hypnosis sessions and after the incident and in the future the hills apparently made no effort to seek publicity we always like to see that we always like to see that we always like to see that exactly i mean granted i think down the line they were involved with a book that became a bestseller and sure there was a hollywood movie based on the event okay so they didn't seek publicity because they were getting fat publicity they were drowning in it yeah okay

also they wanted a pretty sweet commish from this particular episode uh yeah that's true they did uh later in life betty claimed this is where it gets a little bad later in life betty claimed to have seen you're being your own devil's advocate for some reason betty claimed to have seen ufos a number of times after the initial abduction okay and she became a quote unquote celebrity in the ufo community our listener stevie when he emailed in he'd be like please ignore the fact that towards the end betty started to lose her marbles a little bit so i don't know how much later in life she started claiming to have have been abducted more by ufos more times or seen ufos more times yeah there seems to be an unfortunate trajectory with people who have experience of ufos where they somehow decide

it's because they are somehow special yeah they have a connection with the ufos the ufos get them and that they are like tuned in to some ufo frequency i guess it must be tough if you if you are abducted by an alien and then you try and tell people about it and the only people that will treat you with some respect are all the other people who think they've been abducted by aliens or at least believe aliens are real and then you you're in this kind of like self-serving cycle of you know being more involved and being fed more information by the only people who will listen to you who are the wildest people and then you're in like an echo chamber of of alien abductions and that can probably be pretty damaging you know there's no voice of reason to come in and be like let's just chill. Let me hypnotize all y'all for a little second here.

We're going to go into your dreams. My name's Dr. Spider. I'm going into your dreams. It doesn't happen. So in a lot of these cases, that's what we see is people who possibly never had any interest in the paranormal have one encounter and then spend the rest of their lives touring paranormal events writing books being involved in the community and um whether or not that's a good thing or not is to be debated i guess well it's yeah i mean god damn i mean how much of what those people do exactly

what you described is because the world that we've set up it's not very kind to people who have who are blabbing about paranormal shit it's true it's not easy to like speak at a ufo i say this is someone living this life who's been rejected from multiple paranormal events it's not easy to speak at a paranormal convention and then like turn up to a straight-laced job interview on monday and ace it and sell yourself as a normal member of society the problem is that once you are sidelined into this alternative community and your defining moment in your life is this weird thing that not everyone believes in how are you gonna make money how are you gonna sustain

yourself in this life kind of gotta double down yeah and say this is me this is who i am i'm a goddamn freak i'm gonna speak at conferences this is you at the job interview i'm a goddamn freak the interviewers tap in the security button they can't get there fast enough like what would you say is your biggest weakness well a martian broke my spine with a space baton it hasn't healed fully since so that's pretty bad also i'm a perfectionist security guy walks in they're back come with me master you're not hired yet please don't touch me it's a problem it is a problem it is a problem you can get anything you need with uber eats well almost almost anything so no you can't get an ice rink on uber eats but iced tea and ice cream yes we can deliver that uber eats get almost almost

anything order now product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Problem. But look, that's all the evidence really that we have for this case. I mean, if you are interested in this story, I'd say, I mean, definitely do check it out yourself. A lot of the events that take place that were uncovered in the hypnosis sessions are pretty eye-opening, pretty terrifying. And I don't know, pretty pretty the tapes are pretty believable okay okay when i was reading the transcripts of barney's sessions it sounded it was like nonsense it was too coherent it was basically it was like he was telling a story okay but when i listened to the tapes and how it was being told it's quite unsettling because it's also hearing a grown man who is terrified and like screaming like the top of his voice and i wasn't prepared

for that i was like oh damn this is a weird thing to be lying about if you're going to be this passionate and this scared um during a hypnosis session so i don't know this is a tough one i'm i'm gonna throw it to you first, Kit. In the Betty and Barney Hill case, what are you thinking? Well, like you say, listening to those tapes, this might be a case we sometimes come across in paranormal investigations where if the case is not objectively real, whether that is up for debate, what is maybe not up for debate is that the people that happen to believe it 100 yeah that's a really interesting point because that was kind of the conclusion that dr simon came to at the end of the sessions was that i don't think that these people were abducted by aliens but i 100 think that they think they were abducted by aliens. There's no doubt about it.

How that has happened, there was a number of explanations. But he firmly believes at the end of the testing that it didn't really happen. I'll preface what I'm about to say by saying I like this case so far. I think it's got a lot of potential for even being true. And it's pretty storied, pretty evidenced. One of the issues I have is actually right at the beginning. It's like a couple clues that disturb me.

One of which being the lost time. Yes. I worry that it's a common feature of lots of UFO stories. And hell, if all of these stories are true, that lost time may just be a really unfortunate side effect, or Christ, maybe even a deliberate side effect, done by the greys. It's very unfortunate for us trying to decide whether this really happened or not, that people report large swathes of lost time. Because I start thinking then our witnesses have, on some psychological level,

started filling that time, filling in the blanks with their own ideations. And that Betty and Barney have started bouncing ideas off each other of stuff that didn't necessarily happen. Just try and fill in those blanks and that's the problem is you know on one hand you can look at betty's dreams as her subconscious trying to handle what happened that night on the other hand you can see it as having these fantasies about what had happened after seeing an object that looks suspicious in the night sky as you said filling in the blanks all

of a sudden she's telling barney about it barney's getting kind of upset now because he's like well i did see that thing and i don't really remember what happened and then before you know it they're both being hypnotized and all of these stories are coming out when the reality is maybe they could have both got a little carried away and they did mention that they experienced at the tail end of getting chased by the ufo they experienced the sensation of entering or leaving an altered state of consciousness that could have been caused by just about anything but it's it's difficult one thing that i didn't mention because i didn't really have time and i didn't want to get into it is that uh as you said there was like an altered state of consciousness and it felt like the

car was vibrating, like it was being hit by something. When they got home the next morning, they looked at the back of the car and it had a number of rings on the trunk. Wow. And allegedly, again, I don't know if anyone ever tested this, but allegedly when they brought a compass near the rings, the electromagnetic field would send the needle of the compass spinning around any time it was brought close. But again, that was them saying that this happened. I didn't see any pictures of the rings.

I didn't see any evidence that this had happened. It's tough. This is a tough one. It is tough. I think I am one piece of physical evidence away from saying this is a yes. But I just don't have that. It's the book, isn't it? If she had got the book.

She got the pamphlet. The star map is fine, even though it doesn't look like it does link to anything that we can perceive in the universe. even though it doesn't look like it does link to anything that we can perceive in the universe which i don't hate on her by the way because it's it's a very tall order to glance at a map and then try and recreate it that's not gonna happen yeah glance at a map then have your memories wiped then dream about it then have a hypnosis session to remember the dream about the event you suppressed in your mind at that point point, you're just drawing a star. Yeah. And at that point, it's rude of the magazine to roast you for your map being inaccurate.

Yeah. I love a good UFO case. And this one is definitely one of the most interesting. But there's just something about this story that I just need. I need a picture, man. It's the 1960s, right? So there could be a picture of the car the rings on the car a couple more illustrations um you know we've had incidences uh in the past like i forget what was

the one where it was like a diamond ufo yeah remember that one damn but but the people who were there and and were kind of blasted by the craft. They all got radiation poisoning. Yeah, very concrete evidence. It was like medical documents confirming it. And that was like a really good, solid piece of evidence. Whereas this one, we have quite an elaborate story that I'm not quite sure I'm ready to believe just yet. I agree. And, you know, this is it.

What we know happened was they were on this drive, they experienced the lost time, there was some weird altered state of consciousness. And then what we know happened after that is some bizarre side effects and pretty, pretty atrocious hypnotherapies, some of the stuff that that dredged up. But in between that, filling in those gaps, I don't know if we can start filling it with gray-skinned humanoids in caps with star maps pamphlets and medical testing yeah and we definitely can't fill it with two yeses we're gonna fill it with a double no this week folks damn it's like a double stuffed oreo except with no's but thank you so much to cariel homer and steve atkins that was a banger guys and i really enjoyed

investigating it so thank you so much if you have your own case you want us to investigate please email it in to this paranormal life podcast at gmail.com thank you so much to everyone for listening to this week's episode of this paranormal life you know the people in your life they're obsessed with the paranormal they're freaks they're outcasts they're weirdos and what listening to this week's episode of This Paranormal Life, you know the people in your life. They're obsessed with the paranormal. They're freaks. They're outcasts. They're weirdos.

And what would they like more than 25 bonus episodes of This Paranormal Life? 25 bonus episodes of This Paranormal Life is available right now if you sign up on Patreon to our $5 tier. I forgot what was the message here? For $5, you can get a whole ton of bonus episodes of This Paranormal Life, the number one paranormal show in the world. You can quote that, take that to the bank.

But if you do support us at the $2 tier or $5 tier or even higher, give us a million bucks for all I care. They won't. What we like to do is give you a little shout out and a little thank you at the end of the podcast. So thank you to... Janae Warner. I tried to warn her, but Janae wouldn't listen. Oh no.

I said, hypnotherapy is dangerous. You do not know what is going on in the subconscious. Right. But she wanted to know. And you know what happened to the curious the subconscious right but she wanted to know and you know what happened to the curious cat what do you it's psycho dove what and it didn't come back uh janae um last i saw last i saw last i saw uh she thought she was joan of Arc The week before that She thought she was Cleopatra She's diving too deep

Gone too deep into the past lives Granted they're probably real That's pretty cool But you know You need to live in here now too You do You do So J'Nai lay off the hypnotherapy

And the drugs And the psycho diving Just for a little while Thanks also To Sarah Dickerson. Sarah, I didn't mean to scare you, but I feel like I need to apologize because I did sneak up behind her and scream, Sarah! Oh, that would do it. It did. I didn't realize she had high cholesterol.

She was on a knife's edge and her heart just exploded the second that i screamed it really so she is a spirit now okay um but i'm glad to see that somehow those airpods are just floating in space like like colonel floating gun just two airpods hanging out there she's still enjoying the podcast hopefully still not pissed at me because frankly it wasn't my fault was it sarah it was a little bit sure granted a tiny bit seems to be mostly your fault but she's still here which means she's she's not that angry which is nice thanks also to stewart warnock we've all heard of stewart little this is stewart biggle whoa it's a it's a giant-ass rat. Are you serious?

Stuart Little's obviously the cute little mouse. Yeah, he wears little Ralph Lauren outfits all the time. He's a very preppy gentleman. This Stuart is like his older brother, who's like half rat, half wolf. He wears like track suits and a cap. Okay okay he's not so concerned with being cute nah he's a he's a rat of the street okay but um you know you know not every sturt's gonna be the same sturt biggle is he's the kind of rat you want to have have your back what's sturt little gonna do in a fight get stood on that's so true stir biggle he's done time it's kind of

messed he's got rats on the inside it's kind of messed up that they call the two brothers stewart yeah yeah that is weird isn't it thanks also to adina hampton adina do you have any morphina because the injuries from the paranormalanormal Commune's Medieval Jousting Competition have been near fatal. Really? We have a number of people severely injured, and obviously there's no doctors in the commune. So we do have... We have people who are hurt,

and a little morphine would chill them out a little bit, because honestly, they're a bit annoying. It's getting... It's just a constant. Okay, well, their life is in danger so you should probably have a bit of a better attitude my day's in danger of being ruined by their screams so if they could just calm down for one second i don't think morphine is gonna do anything other than shut them up it doesn't sound like it's gonna save them exactly that's like oh it's all i want

i guess it's a start yeah thanks. Thanks also to Noel Anders Pettersson. Noel, please tell me that you have an extra big pointy pole. Because a lot of the ones we were using in the medieval jousting competition have been shattered. On first contact with some of the contestants, they just exploded. Yeah. Body parts everywhere. Morphe nowhere to be seen, frankly. So, Noel, we do need more equipment. I feel like these people will shut up if we get a bit of entertainment going.

Round two, round three, and so forth. Because there is no morphine, so the next best thing is adrenaline. Exactly, yeah. A bit of pizzazz. A bit of showbiz around this place. So get in contact, Noel. Thanks also to Sam Western. Sam is straight out of a Western.

He has like a cowboy name, like Dirty Sammy or something like, you know. Six Shooter Sammy. That's a cool one, actually. He just rolls around town to town solving problems or causing them depending on how his day's going. Depending on how much

whiskey he's had. You sound like a cool guy, Sammy. If you've got any western style adventures coming up, give us a call. We're pretty good on horses as seen in the medieval jousting competition. Of course. Yes, for sure. And while we did not participate

in the jousting, God no, we did regally ride our horses around the commune for everyone to enjoy. So we're good on a horse. Sam, between us and you, don't enter the competition. It's a goddamn death trap. Just come to our castle at the back. We got a shit ton of morphine we're going to blast off on. Thanks also to Martin

Thorogood. Martin, I hope you can fight like a Spartan. Because without getting into details, there's a certain event that is ongoing in the Paranormal Con. And there's an opening. Some contestants

had to drop out. Several openings. Due to missing limbs. so if you know any other spartans get them involved we love y'all don't even have to ride the horses just run at each other honestly morale's a bit low and we need a bit of entertainment uh martin so uh bring all your friends and let's just have a little have a little joust not to give it away what the event is thanks also to anklebert Humperdink. Humperdink is like the name of the sheriff in the town that Sammy Six Shooter rolls into. Like tips his hat.

Morning, Sheriff Humperdink. Wow, morning, Sammy. You stay out of trouble now, you hear me? Shoots his hat off his head. Yeah, as a little warning shot. I'll stay out of trouble and i'll stay into trouble whatever sammy's feeling he gets arrested on the spot you can't do that humperding's like you're going to jail you're absolutely going to jail you shot my head

that was a short episode i missed didn't i thanks also to nick watterson. Every time I see Nick, I'm like, do you need water, my son? Because he is. He's like those mummies that they find in ancient tombs. He's like bone dry. Yeah, raisin. Drink wrapped. And, you know, it's a good look. He's looking lean.

He's got, you know, I can see the muscles on his body. Definition. For sure. That's what you're going for but his also his heart hasn't beaten or beaten in about a thousand years oh so i think a drop couldn't he might just be a mummy actually no it sounds dead yeah he i did find him in one of those tombs as well so he might just be a mummy he just set up a kind of trick trickling afterlife fund that's great we need his favorite podcast somehow awesome thank you too sam taylor ahoy sam taylor the sailor one of the worst to ever set sail on the stormy seven seas really what does that mean every single one of his boats he sails back into port captain jack sparrow style where the boat is essentially sinking as it goes in to let to dock right

he's gone through hundreds of boats which hundreds of thousands of pounds it's really a problem because sam we're relying on those shipments and you keep sinking it into the dock. Yeah. We would honestly rather the ship survived and you went down. Preferably. We need the shipments, Sam. We do. Thank you, too, Adrian Medell.

Adrian, if you want another Medell, you're going to have to earn it. In the gladiatorial arena! Where we only joust. Yes. Granted, there's no horses left. They all died in a jarstring-related incident. But the giant f***ing spears are still available, folks. It's true. So, Adrian, you're gonna

have to prove your metal to earn your medal. Last but not least, thank you so much to Cole Veeder. Well, if it isn't Swole Cole. Ho swole cole the most jacked sob in the paranormal commune wow this guy you know a lot of people if they're uh they're working out they eat a lot of protein yeah drink a lot of protein shakes sure a lot of weight i saw this dude just straight up punch a cow in the face and then take a bite out of its unconscious body.

Oh my God. At this point, we're all too scared to confront him. Wow. Some kind of... Because that's pretty illegal. Yeah. It wasn't his cow. Some kind of wild Neanderthal character.

But until we can raise up a police officer to be strong enough to beat him, like when the Hulk has to fight that other version of the Hulk that's... I don't know, what is he? He's like the bad Hulk. Something like that. Who knows? That's what we need. And that'll be a great event to take place

and everyone can come and watch it when the jousting season has finished, of course. Thank you so much to all those people. And thank you to you, the listener, for tuning in this week. What a case. We had a blast. Again, please send in your email submissions. And until then, we'll be back with a brand new case next week of This Paranormal Life.