This Paranormal Life - Ed And Lorraine Warren The Worlds Greatest Ghost Hunters Or Frauds

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Ed and Lorraine Warren are far and away the world’s most famous and iconic paranormal investigators (after Kit and Rory…) Made famous by their investigations into iconic cases such as the Enfield Poltergeist and Annabelle the Doll, they have since been immortalised in the popular Conjuring movie series, some of the most commercially successful horror movies of all time. But who were the individuals behind these unbelievable stories? In this episode Kit and Rory trace the history of how these two met, their initiation into the world of the paranormal, and the disturbing rumours about their legacy that circle to this day… Follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our Secret Society Facebook Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/ThisParanormalLife⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get access to weekly bonus episodes! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Buy Official TPL Merch!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠thisparanormallife.com/store⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Intro music by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.purple-planet.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Edited by Philip Shacklady Research by Ewen Friers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is London's most paranormal tube stop? Carrots can help you see in the dark. Is there a vegetable that would let you read minds? And is it poisonous mushrooms? Answers to these questions and more on this episode of This Paranormal Life! Hello! And welcome back to This Paranormal Life,

the weekly comedy podcast where every Tuesday, me Kit Greer Mulvana, this guy Rory Parrish is sitting across from me, dive into a different paranormal case, hopefully a new one, and decide by the end of that episode. with whether we think in our professional opinion, it's really paranormal or not. How you doing today, Rory?

I'm doing great. Listen, a bit of a tangent at the start of the podcast. I was one of those kids that grew up around the era of the film franchise Spy Kids. So from a very young age, I was obsessed with spy toys, gadgets. I think a lot of us were when we were growing up. It was like a big market spy toys for kids. I know. Like we grew up with James Bond.

Mission Impossible, spy kids. Yeah. Like these days, they're like, you have to learn to code to work in the economy of the future. Boring. In the 90s, it was like, everyone's going to be a spy. Yeah. 70, 80% of the population is going to be spying for a job. You have to learn the skills now.

Yeah. So when my parents told me there was a vegetable that gave me night vision, I honestly, I ate so many carrots thinking that I was going to be like Sam Fisher from splinter cell, that I could walk into a room and have like, like green vision in the dark and be able to see perfectly. I'll tell you, I'm not crazy about the taste mother, but if I get the powers you've been telling me about, I guess I'll eat more of the carrot stew. My mom was like, no, I didn't say that my dad's like, just let him eat the cake. It's the only vegetable he's eating. Just let him eat the carrots. And now, apparently, my eyes only work in light. I got my glasses redone the other day and they checked my like prescription and they were like yeah you can't

see in the dark really yeah apparently i have like an astigmatism yeah crazy what are you going to do on tour it's mostly bag of carrots i need a lot of carrots on tour actually to be fair did actually yeah there was a lot of vegetables in the green room so i was chomping down for raw vegetables well rory today i will be guiding you through the darkness and in to the light of today's investigation Nice segue. I try my best. We have a great case to get into, as we do every week, fear not. If you are new to this paranormal life, welcome, welcome.

Thank you for joining us. I know our friends over at Spotify have been promoting the show a little bit in a few different places. So if you're new to the show, so glad to have you. We have a whole treasure trove of episodes over the year for you to dive back into. Oh, yeah. And of course, we're going to dive into today's case, but a reminder that we have hundreds, dozens and hundreds of bonus episodes after parties on the Patreon. on Patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life. You can get anything, your heart desires,

in the world of this paranormal life, at least, over on Patreon. Yeah, well, not anything your heart desires. We're not genies. Anything. No, absolutely not. It gets looking at the camera in a weird way. Gold, silver. Tell them, I'm not lying. Hand jobs. On certain tiers, anything's possible. There is a redacted tier. There is a redacted tier that costs 45,000. I think it's a clean $50,000. Oh, maybe it's $50. Yeah, I think it's 50. There's kind of a jump.

You know, you get most things for just $5 a month. $10 a month, you get some more things. Then we've got shoutouts, I think on giveaways on $20, $50 a month. Slight jump to $50,000. Yeah. The contents of that tier are completely redacted like a CIA document. Yes. And I think the implication was that it was some sort of paranormal related activity

where we reveal something or you get something classified. Maybe it is just a blowjob. I think we haven't worked it out again. I think we've just forgotten and then no one's signed up to it yet. But someone, someone is listening to this and they're interested. We've intrigued them with the talk of sexual favors. So patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life. I think this is against Patreon's terms of services probably.

Link in the description. Sexual favors, you cannot list as a reward on Patreon. No, I don't think you can even do that. Only fans. Link is in the description of this, whether you're on YouTube, Spotify, anywhere you listen to this paranormal life. Yeah, check it out. February 5th, 1943. It's a dark night on the North Atlantic, a dangerous place at the height of World War II.

U.S. Navy merchant ship, the SS Spring Hill, drifts through the mist. Two young sailors are standing on the outer deck. A long way from home, eh, sailor? You're going to say that again. Where are you from anyways, Ed? Bridgeport, Connecticut, a beautiful corner of America, pretty darn different from the North Atlantic. Other than my summer job as a lifeguard down in the public swimming baths, I ain't seen a lot of water. Amen to that. You got a gal back in Bridgeport?

Oh, you betcha. A very special gal. What, like a prom queen? More special than that. She's a psychic. She's what? Suddened, there's a huge bang. The ship shakes violently. and the semen, Paul's, are knocked to the floor. There's a huge explosion at the bow of the ship. The Spring Hill has collided with an oil tanker.

Damn, if you want another semen explosion, check out the $50,000 tier on patreon.com. Pause, no, no, no. I'm just trying to find a way to support us financially well while incorporating it into the storytelling. You made it sound like there's a video. And then people's minds are going to start racing because it's like the obvious thing would be me and you getting it on.

No, no! That's what people are going to think. If you say, if you click the tier, you'll see something crazy like that. Like, they're going to... That's what I'm saying we've got to tell them. Tell them that's not what's happening. We do it to you. No.

What do you want from me? I just don't talk about it at all, actually. Sorry, sorry. We're going down. Abandon ship. The crew reached for the lifeboats and the two men clamber, just as the ship is being pulled down to the depths. But Ed spots a sailor in the water among the flaming debris. His lifeguard training kicks in and he dives from the boat,

swimming right into harm's way. Ed drags the sailor to safety before spotting another flailing about. Even though he's literally freezing to death in the water, he swims over to them. The other guy yells. Ed, save yourself! It's too late for them! But his friends tried to pull him out of the water. I feel a presence, a figure, a light, something's protecting me. Ed?

Ed? Say something. Ed looks up with a wide-eyed manic stare. I've been given a purpose. I've been put on this earth to help people to explore the edges of this world and the one that lies beyond. The spirit world. But first things first, when I get home, I'm going to marry my Lorraine. Roarie, Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Hold on. Ring any what? All right, hold on there. I'm just going to say something real quick, buddy. I don't think she wants to marry you. Because here's the thing about having a psychic girlfriend is if any bad stuff happens to you during the day, sounds like she's not that happy with you. Oh, what are you saying? You're saying...

You think that his psychic girlfriend before he left for the boat was just like, yeah, no, have a nice time. time. Yeah, yeah. I was like, do you want to tell me anything about like how stormy the sea's going to be or anything? No, no, have a nice time. And he's like, yeah, just, it feels like you're still angry about me going out with the guys last night instead of hanging out with your, your mother who was in town. Have a nice time, sweetie. No, just have a nice time. Just, you know, just keep an eye on where the life fest are when you're boarding the ship at a time. All right. You put some of his keys. All right. So, no, we need a talk. We need a talk. Yeah, I know what you're so. Okay. I see. what you're saying. In the same way that one of us might check the weather app before we leave

the house, do I need an umbrella today? Yeah. She checks the crystal ball. And it's like, am I going to get hit by an SUV today? Because sometimes when you're in a relationship, it's hard for you to figure out when your partner is genuinely mad at you. Okay. But if you have a psychic partner, then even if you are like, go to the coffee shop and have a sip of your coffee and it kind of spills down your top, you're like, well, she's mad at me then. Because then why, why is you? And she tell me, be careful when you have the sip of coffee, you're going to spill the first drop. Yeah. I don't think she's that type of psychic.

I know what you're saying. You're thinking of like, yeah, future teller. Yeah. Beware. Which I guess is one type of psychic, yes. Yeah. I think will. You think like read your mind.

You know who Ed and Lorraine Warren are. Yeah. You cut me off so violently. Yeah. Of course. It was more of a like talk to the dead psychic, right? Got it. You know?

Got it. It might be worth saying it is hard. However, on the flip side, quite easy to tell if your partner is psychic. Like, for example, I know my wife isn't psychic because a tile flew off our roof the other day and smashed in the windscreen of her car. Right. Now, if that smashed in the windscreen of my car, she could still technically be a psychic. True.

And she thought that was deserved somehow. Yeah, yeah. Some mini kind of get-back thing there. But it was her car. So that leads me to believe she didn't see that coming. Yeah, you've also been dating her for long enough that she was your partner when we started this podcast. Yeah. So she's not psychic.

She watched me ruin my life in real time. Yeah, right. Right, yeah. Like she saw a multiverse of options in front of you, every version of Kit possible. And you were like, I'll think I'm going to start a podcast, sweetheart. And she went, okay, fine. We were talking about that the other day. We're talking about, like, you know, as you say, when you're married to someone,

when you've been dating them a long, long time, you think back to like where you guys were when you met. And I was like, hold on. When we met, I was unemployed, buck teeth, owned at most one pair of underwear. Sure. Let alone see the future. You couldn't see the present. You couldn't see any situation in which this worked out. Yeah.

You know. So she's actually lucked out. I own at least four pieces of underwear now. Forget eating carrots to see in the dark. See in the day. See now. You're blind. Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Yes. Ring any bells or should I say wedding bells? Oh, that's so late. You can't do that anymore. Would you cut me off? We'll fix it in the edit, won't we? Do they ring any bells, though? They do ring bells.

We've talked about these pair a lot over the years investigating the paranormal on this podcast. Two of the most famous paranormal investigators of all time. Yeah, probably the most after Kit and Rory. Yes, they've investigated some of the biggest cases you've ever heard of. Annabel the cursed doll. The Enfield hauntings, I believe, was them as well. There are rumors that have been circulating in recent years that they are con men.

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, no, no, whoa. I'm sure we'll get on to that. Yeah, that's right. Kids here to do. tell us today why that's all lies and nonsense and slander. Ah, well, don't worry about the rumors of being cons and frauds, because there's actually different other way worse rumors. So we'll get to those later.

Okay. Rory's right. If you don't know Ed and Lorraine Warren, you do. Because the conjuring movies, for one, are about this couple. They literally star the fictionalized versions of Ed and Lorraine Warren. Now, while Ed passed away in 2006, and Lorraine, more recently in 2019, this couple were the, even while alive, were the posh and becks of the paranormal, the Sid and Nancy. They were the gruesome-tusome. But where did they come from?

Presumably they didn't pop out of the womb with a crucifix and a Bible under their arm. Well, Ed's wartime experience in the North Atlantic was said to be his awakening. Did this paranormal life take some artistic liberty with those events? Sure. But that's not important. Although that really did happen. He did kind of almost die at sea. And then he had this like come to Jesus moment where he was like,

I know what I want to do with my life. And I need to go back home and marry Lorraine, who he was already dating. That's a nice realization to have after a near-death experience. Now Lorraine at this point in the story was already actually known is something of a clairvoyant. So I guess maybe you're right that I think clairvoyant is the one

where you can kind of see the future, right? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, yeah. A person who claims to have a supernatural ability to perceive events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact. Hey-yo. Yeah, a bit of a mix.

Rory kind of called it. Now, for her part, ever since she was a small girl, she knew she was psychic and clairvoyant, beginning when she saw an angel in a hospital. But despite no one believing her as a child and being mocked by her peers,

Lorraine grew to harness her gift, which she believed was a gift from God. In fact, both Ed and Lorraine had a very, very strong Catholic belief. Well, that checks out. Yeah, it's the more spooky of the Christian denominations. For sure, yeah.

So after Ed almost died at sea during World War II he was, I didn't know this is how they did things he was sent home for 30 days of Survivors leave where if you almost die they're like, take the month off chief Wow!

And just chill and then you can come back. That's surprisingly progressive. A little mental health day. I thought they'd just slap him hold the collar of a shirt slap him and go get it together junior. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, they pick, grab them and they say, don't you get it? You're the lucky one.

Look around. and there's a bunch of floating bodies. It's like, get back out there. Yeah. But it sounds like they were like, hey, you actually look like you've been pretty stressed recently. That must have been a terrifying thing you went through. Take some time off. Are we realizing things are worse now than they were in like 1944?

Is that what we're realizing? They were like, take a mental health day, bud. Seriously. When Phil is like, I'm feeling a little under the weather. I feel a little underworked. We show him all the CVs of everyone. who didn't get the job. Look at this.

You're the lucky one. Get back to work. Even when he almost dies, he gets electrocuted by a hard drive or something. Phil's like, I can see nine angels in the office right now. I think there's something wrong with me. Ru, you're heavy breathing. You need to see a doctor. I got to work.

So Ed didn't waste a day. He headed home, proposed to Loray and got married immediately, and then enjoyed 20-something days of kind of, wedded bliss and then eventually went back to the military. But the war would soon be over and then Ed was able to return for good. And once back from war, the couple got deep into the paranormal, albeit via a slightly unusual route. Ed started making money in the post-war society by sketching, drawing and making paintings of people's houses. And then he would talk to them and sell them on the painting I guess and he would get tours of the house oftentimes people who get

into conversations and more and more while making these paintings as he got the history of the house he would be told that the house was in fact haunted ah I genuinely a pretty unexpected and cool way of him learning more about haunted houses yeah that is cool he was fascinated by these stories because he had grown up in an allegedly haunted house himself it felt familiar to him and so But this almost became his niche then making paintings of houses which were specifically haunted. They almost started hunting down houses that had the best stories behind them. Right, right.

So it wasn't long before the couple were making site visits to alleged hauntings and spiritually charged locations across New England and further afield. Fast forward to 1952 and they founded the New England Society for Psychic Research. And the rest, as they say, is history. I mean, it sounds weird when you're talking about the paranormal, but I guess this is just how anyone gets into any line of work. People say that all the time, right? You just fall into kind of doing something. Yeah. You know, you just have a vague interest in it and then an opportunity pops up.

This is cool because they were probably, there probably weren't that many organizations around at the time doing this sort of thing. Yeah, this is probably the early doors, yeah. Yeah, so that's cool to be one of the first kind of like paranormal investigation offices officially established. And it's like the early days of like media and stuff. It's like I guess they'll go on to write a book or something at some point. But like they're still kind of at this point in the world of just like helping people, right? Yeah. You know like investigating and gathering evidence, maybe working with priests.

What does this look like when you're trying to start this business and you go to the bank to get a loan? I'm so sorry. We just have to call you in because I don't, I'm not sure I fully understand what the business is about. it says here so point of interest demon and then a bracket S question mark

implying you don't know how many demons are going to be out there maybe more than one yeah well there's billions of the things so could be could be two could be one for sure could be zero actually in which case the business would be

well be pretty hard wouldn't it to make any money so for insurance purposes here I have to ask you about any policy possible like threats or health and safety issues that might arise. Oh boy. All of. All of all. Whatever you can think. I mean, throw them at me. All of what? So we have, but I mean, we have a checklist here. So, okay, risk of physical harm. Yeah. Yeah. You bet you're too late to ask me that. Yeah. Okay. Risk of mental harm.

Well, yeah. I mean, your psyche could be replaced with that of the demon Bealzebub. your entire personality could become that of a demon. So yeah, I'd say that's pretty psychologically damaging. Okay. Yeah. Well, this is okay. Well, you're already entering a territory where you can tell I'm not going to give you the loan. Just because of the amount of panting you're doing during this interview is already suspicious.

Because we're two in and I'm like, yeah. Yes. And some. Now, there's a risk here, you know, a threat of issues arising such as like nepotism. So who's involved in the company? What's nepotism? Is that a, is that one of the layers of hell or something? No, it's, so it's like a bias for employing- I think I read that in revelations. Relatives or anything like that.

Oh, employing relatives? Yes. Yeah, yeah, I'm making my wife CEO. Yeah, right, that's a big tick risk of that, for sure. Yeah, she's smart though. She can see the future, so she can see we're gonna make hell of bread, actually. If she could see the future, you shouldn't have come here. You must have known that. This is a waste of your time.

Yeah, she's weirdly in the car. She said she didn't want to come in for some reason. Go to your wife, sir. Go back to your wife. And I'm looking through the business plan and the inventory, nine gallons of holy water. Yeah, at least. Yeah, expenses.

So I've had to kind of quickly describe how they got to where they are, but now I can tell you where they got. Their impact on the world was huge. As described online, they authored many books about the power and about their private investigations into paranormal activity. They claim to have investigated well over 10,000 cases during their career. Makes us look like shit. With years of visits to paranormal locations,

the Warrens collected a trove of cursed objects and artifacts, leading to one of their other major contributions to demonology, their infamous occult museum. That's such a lie. What? 10,000 cases? Yeah. We have investigated one case a week for almost eight years.

Yeah, we're part timers, bro. And we're on 400. Yeah, well, that's not true because we have bonus episodes too. So we're a little above that. Sure. Yeah, but even what? So let's say even 500. Okay, we're only, yeah, we're,

they said 10,000? We haven't even hit episode 100 of bonus episodes. So, okay, yeah, we're on, we're on like 550 investigations. Investigating to them must be like the smallest amount of... They're not going out on location. They are going on locations. No, no, not for every single one. Not for all 10,000.

That's insane. Yeah, but you have to remember they were doing this for literally decades. Yeah. We haven't hit one decade yet. All right, hold on. I'm going to do some quick math here. And this is like they do it every single day going to locations. We only do one a week, which is not that many.

Well, we have to edit it. It takes time. Yeah. They weren't making like a... borderline mini TV show for each case like we are. Okay, yeah. So 10,000 divided by 365, which is the year. That means if you investigated one case every single day,

it would take 27.3 years to investigate that many cases. So that assumes you don't take a single day off, and it would almost take 30 years. Some of those have got to be, all right, we got an email, so the house was haunted. Looks good to me. Stamp it. That's an investigation done.

I assume they're breezing through some of these. Roy, if you want to discuss holes in this case, we'll be here for 27.5 years. We will be very early in the whole poking stage of the show. That is a good point. That is a good point. I think there's probably a lot of investigators out there who will say they've covered thousands of cases and they did indeed do it for a very long time. Speaking of hole poking, once again,

Patreon.com, that $50,000 tier, you're going to want to check it out. A lot of good stuff over there. I will say, as a slight defense of them, Roy, because you're saying, oh, it would take 27 years. They started their organization in 1952, and she worked until she died in 2019. Well, okay. It's almost 70 years. Yeah. So if it takes about 30 every day, if you did three a week, that could take you 70 years, three to four a week. So maybe it is possible. No, you are right.

They are lying. But they also did it for a really long time. Both things are true. Both things can be true. Well, let's not bury the lead. It is worth mentioning the occult museum. We will come back to it later on. But it's worth mentioning.

It is their kind of, I would say, besides the conjuring movies, I guess, it is their lasting legacy. There is a museum, which I believe at time of recording is closed. It's been closed for a few years. years, probably since Lorraine died. But actually, it's been, there is news about it this year, isn't there? I don't know what you're talking about. I think you do. That comedian Matt Rife, ah, the house, has entered a deal, which he was at great pains in the video he posted online. Great pains to explain that he doesn't own the museum, but he has taken like guardianship.

Right. He is a five-year contract or something to operate the museum as a business. Really weird. Matt Rife is a very, very famous comedian who weirdly is into the paranormal as well. And he's going to reopen the museum. And I believe let paranormal investigators and punters come stay in it overnight. And what is the museum? Is a museum of curiosities and paranormal entities that includes Annabelle the curse doll? It includes, yeah, artifacts that they have seized over the years. There you go. Evidence from cases including Annabelle's really the piece de resistance of the museum. I would pay to not own that. Yeah. I wouldn't want to go anywhere near this thing.

It is funny to think, isn't it? I mean, you made the joke about going to get a bank loan to run this business. That is pretty funny that they have like a, I guess, a LLC business in which they have to house hundreds or thousands of cursed objects. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty high risk of fire, flood, wind, air, demon damage, you know. It's going to be one of those things where you're like setting it up.

as a business and you're like, these are real cursed artifacts. We need to take this thing seriously. This is a business and I want to be respected as a businessman. And then the person is probably like, okay, well, if these are real cursed objects, you know, your insurance prices are going to be through the roof. Well, look, some of them, of course, yeah. I mean, yeah, they're cursed. But like, most of them are safe. Nothing actually happens. They're semi-cursed. Yeah, it's fine. They're not that If the paranormal is real, then this business is completely unsustainable. But if it's totally fake bullshit, then we can actually do it. Yeah, exactly.

Now, as you say, Rory, the Warrens and their cases have been featured on this paranormal life many times already. Let's remind ourselves and look at some of their most famous cases, the cases that put them on the map, as well as some slightly more obscure lore before we get down to the nitty-gritty of whether we thought they were legitimate or not. Okay. And of course we kind of have to start with the big one, the Perrin case, aka the plot of The Conjuring One. Oh yeah. This is the OG, the originator James Wan's iconic supernatural horror that propelled the warrants into household name, territory. And this tackled the Warren's time with the Perrin family in the early 1970s.

According to Ed and Lorraine, the Rhode Island farming family was being haunted by a witch who had lived lived there in the early 1800s. They alleged that Bathsheba Sherman had sacrificed her baby son to the devil, and after that cursed the land. This origin explained the almost 10 years of, quote, full body apparitions, disembodied voices, objects moving on their own, clocks stopping and beds, levitating. Whoa! Lorraine even conducted a seance at the house where the mother, Carolyn Perrin, allegedly became

possessed, spoke in tongues, and levitated. The hauntings continued until the family were able to move out of the house in the 80s. Holy shit. I want to know how many years into this business were they when this one happened. It was in the 70s, so they were, I mean, already 20 years of investigating deep at that point. Okay, that's good, because if this is number one, I would rethink the business. I'd be like, let's set up a frozen yogurt shop. Let's do anything else.

Yeah, I think I'm going to need that mental health day. Yeah, yeah. Because I assume most of the work you do at a business like this is someone coming in and saying they want to like communicate with their deceased mother or something. And you can kind of channel the voice of the mother or you can give them some nice support using your paranormal abilities. But if if day one you were like, all right, there's something going on in this house, you open it up and there are floating beds, women chanting demonic.

It curses, you know, I'm just closing the door and I'm rethinking my choices. I'm out. I'm out. Yeah. Ed's like, war was safer. War was safer. I need a shotgun. I need a shotgun. Yeah. To protect against these possessed old ladies. But 20 years in, you're kind of ready for that. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think they're probably fine at this point. At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health. From the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today and may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to cherish. Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today.

Medcan. Live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Kind of speeding along, I should say that you kind of gather 10,000 cases, guys. We don't really have time to get into the evidence behind any singular case. We'll more just get an overview from a lot of the cases they studied. You'll see there's quite a few big hitters. Speaking of that, the Conjuring 2 was based on, of course, the Enfield Poultergeist. Yes.

A story that we have actually investigated. This is the 1977 to 1979. Enfold Poultergeist case. We did a classic two-parter, classic, classic two-parter. Yeah. In which the pacing wasn't weird at all, and Rory didn't get at all frustrated with the sheer lack of evidence. In a case that ended with catching the children bending spoons themselves.

I forgot that. It's a classic. It's an absolute classic. A case so famous and so powerful that we haven't even bothered to go across London to where it happened. Which is on the two. Yeah, it's so easy to get to. It's not far. 2.84 Green Street in Enfield, London. Yeah, we should go.

The poltergeist activity, of course, centered around two young sisters, Janet and Margaret Hodgson, 11 and 13 years old, respectively. The house was plagued with strange noises, voices, moving furniture, and violent spirits, tossing objects, including the girls, around the house. It was a media sensation at the time and would have elevated the Warren's profile, I'm sure, considerably.

Interesting that researcher Ewan has reminded me that we actually split vote on that. Rory went, on that case and I went yes. I'm not going to say who was right in retrospect, but let's just remind ourselves, Rory, of the famous let quote levitation photo from the case. Yes, kid is showing me one of the most famous photos from the Enfield haunting, which is, it's literally a kid jumping off of their bed photographed in midair.

Like, it couldn't even be, it couldn't even look more like that. Because, like, levitating implies, like, we all know what, like, a levitating human looks like. It's like head rolled back, arms by your side, kind of floating up like you're being raptured. She's, like, fully jumped. Bent over off of, like, a crinkled blanket bed. It's so bad. That's so bad. There's better evidence than that in that case.

That photo, which is the famous one, is terrible. It's tough. It's tough. There's now been so many conjuring movies that they actually just sum up really, yeah, the most famous cases of all in the Warren's history. The Conjuring movie, The Devil Made Me Do It, Discussed the Arnie Cheyenne Johnson Murder Trial. A pretty insane story. I don't know if we'll maybe come back to any of these stories in future and do proper investigations, but this one tackles the Glatzel family. That was also my excuse to my parents when I got my penis stuck in the vacuum.

cleaner. The devil made me do it. Yeah, that backfired. Yeah, that backfired. I don't mean the the Hoover. You got sent to Bible camp for six summers after that. Yeah, when I tell all the stories about me being a camp counselor at Bible camp, it was because I was just too old to be one of the campers. They were like, but he still really needs this. We're worried if he comes home for the summer, he's going to put his penis back in the vacuum cleaner. The only place there isn't a He keeps making doodles of it in his notebook. Also might be on the $50,000 tier. Check it out. In 1981, the Warrens observed the possession of a child called David Glatzel.

When the Glatzel family moved into a new rented property, the youngest David was troubled by visions of an old man. These visions included the old man, quote, appearing as a demonic beast who muttered Latin and threatened to steal his soul. Shortly after, David experienced night terrors, exhibited strange behavior, hissed, spoken in another worldly demonic voice, levitated, and obtained unexplained physical injuries. The family called in the help of the Catholic Church and the Warrens. During one of a series of exorcisms, the Warrens allegedly observed the demon leave David's body and go in to a man called Arnie Chen Johnson. This was David's sister's boyfriend. Oh shit, Arnie caught astray.

He probably popped his head in at one point being like, Hey guys, just swinging by to... His soul leaps out of a child into his body. My sauce dominions. Oh, God. He was just coming in to see if anyone wanted pizza. The Domino's guy standing at the door waiting to get paid. Yeah, so the total is 81.

He like lifts him up by the neck. I've actually, one, never heard of this case before and two, maybe say less, brother, because this feels like a fun one we could cover on the podcast. So maybe let's not talk about any conclusion to that one. Okay, let's call it there. I wouldn't describe the next couple sentences I was going to read as fun, but they are pretty interesting.

The kid exploded. I mean, I described it a minute ago as a murder trial. Oh, maybe we would. won't cover that one. Wait, who murdered who? The kid murdered someone? Do you want to know? Yeah, why not? I won't cover it if it's a murder trial. We ain't true crime. Sorry, guys. Yeah, but people just want to know now, don't they? Yeah. Probably most people know this. Say it and then maybe I'll, we can beep it if we do decide to cover it. All right. Yeah, we can decide. Um, Arnie went on to murder his landlord like two days later. Um, then his murder

trial marked the first ever occasion that a defense of not guilty by virtue of possession was heard in court. Oh shit, maybe we will cover this one. All right, beep, beep, a bit of that. That actually sounds kind of interesting. I think I would be here all day, probably, if I started going through all the major, most famous ones. There is, of course, even just the topics of the other conjuring movies, such as the Smurl, haunting. The movie Annabelle, of course, the investigation into the doll. The f*** is a smirle. I think it's just a family name.

Oh. Annabel, worth noting, because I'm sure we'll talk about the occult museum again, Annabel is essentially one of the stars of this museum. We did give Annabelle a double no in our investigation into the doll. Great episode. You should go check it out and listen to it. But I did want to cover what might actually tell us slightly more about the Warrens, besides what we already know, which is maybe the B sides, right? Besides the hits, the hit records we've heard that have been the movie,

movies, what were some of the other paranormal cases they covered? Because I'm also conscious the movies have really focused on what might be thought of as their specialty, which is possession cases. Yes, yeah. Which like even you can hear it when I read out the synopsis of these stories. I mean, these are incredibly filmic horror-esque stories. They're pretty astonishing. Yeah, I think that's why these are the ones that get talked about the most is because there's a lot of, there's a lot going on in a possession case or a haunted house. or something like that. But I don't know, maybe the Warrens were also f***ing with aliens, or, you know, just regular ghost sightings. I'll give you a good one. In 1983, the Warrens

returned to England this time to South End on sea to visit a Bill Ramsey. But what was going on? Was Bill experiencing bumps in the night, moving furniture? No. He was turning into a werewolf. Yes, this is what I want to hear about. Bill had been attacking police during manic episodes, allegedly throwing grown officers over his head with superhuman strength. I take you back. I don't want to hear about this. Bill had requested that they lock him up for his own and the public's safety. The tabloids, as they like to do in Britain, had covered this strange case. And in one story said, quote, Bill had hunched shoulders and both hands had curled into claws.

And he bared his lips like a rabid animal. Anyone who dared approach was knocked down easily with superhuman strength. Okay, but did the werewolf transformation happen during a full moon or after six pints of Guinness? I'm going to show you a picture of Bill. I will say if you had to pick a guy to be a werewolf, he kind of looks mid-transformation. That's a werewolf. Yeah, yeah, right. That is a werewolf. What a face.

Yeah. That's a great-looking person right there. Yeah, like he could be like a character actor in a movie in like a Robert Eggers movie or something, right? He looks like he's carved out of stone. Yeah. That's a very, very cool look. In the interest of actually getting to hear what Ed and Lorraine sounded like, I'll show you a clip of them discussing this case. Ed, can you tell us about this actual case of lycanthropy?

Well, this is the first case of a werewolf for lycanthropy, which is a scientific name for it, that we ever came across in 45 years. investigations. Lorraine and I were at a friend's home and we were speaking and talking, fooling around. All of a sudden, my attention was drawn to the fact that there was another werewolf in London picture on. I thought, my God, they made another one, but this was different. It was on sightings, and I looked at it and I was watching these police officers, real London police officers, talking about being attacked by a real werewolf. And I looked at Lorraine and I said, what do you think about this? And so as we watched, we realized that this man was the first case of lycanthropy that we all got to come across.

So we took it so seriously that we flew to California. We talked with the producers of the show. They told us, yes, that Bill Ramsey was considered a real-life werewolf. And so then we flew to England. and we talked with Bill Ramsey, and I talked and interviewed the police officers who were actually attacked by this man. Now, he stands about 5'7.

He weighs maybe 150 pounds, but he would take some of these bobbies who were well over six foot over 200 pounds. He'd throw them around like they're a kindling wood. And the stories that they told us about this man were incredible. How he would ask to be. locked up in the jail cell for his protection and the protection of the public. Now, the people out there listening to us right now are probably saying, come on, what are you talking about? A

werewolf? Well, I think by the end of this program, they'll realize that Bill Ramsey was a real-life werewolf. But it was Lorraine, really, to talk me into going into London. Wow. It's kind of interesting that was a different one even for them. Yeah, they were kind of excited, it sounds like, to be like, we've never done a werewolf before. They say that they convinced Bill to visit their church in Connecticut where they had him exercise after which he was apparently cured. Why doesn't help a werewolf? Yeah, I know.

They just, yeah. I mean, you're starting to see that they view everything through a very specific, like, Christian lens. Yeah. And I think there's like quotes from Ed and Lorraine where they're like, the people most at risk of the paranormal are non-believers. You know, the best thing you can do to protect yourself is, you know, pray and be very religious.

Look, I appreciate I'm providing a very high level overview of what the warrants got up to in their illustrious career. But I think we can gather that it was hard-hitting and kind of captured the imaginations of people enough that they became a household name. They became a subject of these huge movies. We also have to move on in the story because there is so much controversy to discuss in their career. Before you go on, I had a little good riff there. they became a haunted household name. That's pretty good. Yeah, I'll give you that.

Yeah, I felt like worth interrupting this story for. I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, yeah. No, I'm cutting it out for sure, using the power of AI to just make it seem like I got a clean shot at that. And there's kind of no easy way to discuss the depth of the criticism surrounding Ed and Lorraine Warren. So I appreciate it might sound a little heavy, but I do think it's important and it would be totally pointless to discuss the warrants without bringing it up and talking about it extensively actually. Um, the probably the most important accusations against the warrants have come from one, Judith Penny. Judith Penny was a woman who lived with Ed and Lorraine for decades.

Hmm. The problem is she said in recent years that she lived with them because she was in a sexual relationship with Ed, with Lorraine's knowledge that started when Ed was was in his 30s and she was 15 years old. Ooh. Oh no. At first, Penny stayed in a bedroom directly opposite, the one occupied by the married couple, but eventually she moved in to an apartment built for her above their home. One night he'd sleep downstairs, she said in a recording, one night he'd sleep upstairs.

Um, these guys are demonic. It said that even in 1963, a teenage girl did not move in with a married man without attracting notice. That year, Penny was arrested after someone reported her relationship with Ed to local police. Good. I love that. Even in 1963, that was crazy. As if, like, anything went in 1963? Yeah, but not for the reasons you probably think.

She says she spent the night in the North End prison in Bridgeport, while the police tried to persuade her to admit to an affair. Oh. Penny has also claimed that Ed was abusive to Lorraine. early on she said she witnessed him backhand his wife so hard she lost consciousness. Bloody hell. Penny said in one recording some nights I thought they were going to kill each other.

Penny has also said she helped Ed maintain a reputation as a ghost hunter. He claimed to have captured, you'll be interested in this, Rory, the white lady, a ghost who haunts the Union Cemetery in Connecticut. God damn it. No, stop it. Don't tell me about this because that's one of my favorite cases of all time. And I don't want to know that it was investigated by a diddler.

He claims... And I don't want the didler to be on my side. You gotta love this. No, I don't think I will. He claimed to have captured the white lady on tape in the summer of 1990 after camping out in the graveyard for a week. Penny claims Ed wanted to make a video

that would show what the white lady would look like if she were spotted, so he put on a white sheet for the filming. It's worth noting that for the creation of the conjuring movies as well, it is on the record that Lorraine who oversaw the negotiation of those movies, movies. The contract with her included unusual restrictions. The films couldn't show her or her husband

engaging in crimes, including sex with minors, child pornography, prostitution or sexual assault. That is unbelievably worrying. Neither the husband nor wife could be depicted as participating in extramarital sexual relationships. Why is that? Because if you, if someone was like your, we're going to, we want to make a movie. about you, Rory, about your life. Mine would be, is like, okay, yeah, absolutely. You can't include me getting home drunk and falling asleep with my hand in a bucket of KFC

chicken. You know, it would be, it would be stories like that. That's the stuff that I would be worried about of them depicting in my life. If someone's like, we want to make a movie about you, it's like, well, you just, you can't show any of the nonsense. They're like, what? Just don't make me look like a nun. Don't make me look like a pedophile.

Why would that happen? Why would that even come up? I'm just saying. I'm just saying. The good thing for you is you live in 2025. So if a video comes out of you, yeah, half naked, drunk, hands and a bucket of chicken, you could be like, that's AI. Yeah.

That's SORA 2. Slap a water, saw a watermark on it. We're good. We're fine. It's like that meme video of Iron Man in court and it's like my lawyer putting the Sora 2 watermark on a video of me committing a crime. I absolutely did. And don't just take it from me or the internet.

The original Conjuring Movies producer, DeRosa Grund, said, quote, Ed was a paedophile, a sexual predator, and a physically abusive husband. Lorraine enabled Ed to do this. She knowingly allowed this illegal relationship to continue for 40 years. They lied to the public. Hmm, okay. I wish I'd known this earlier. In my seven years of investigating the paranormal.

It is interesting because we've talked about them and we knew there was like chat, but we never like read into it very much. I think I always just assumed that it was like the controversy was that they were hoaxing stuff. Yeah. And I was like, throw a dart. They're all hoaxing stuff. Yeah, yeah. Like Zach Baggins, every paranormal host of all time is hoaxing shit except this paranormal life.

Because we don't leave the studio. We don't go to locations in order to hoax things. Also, I don't care. My job doesn't depend on whether or not something is or isn't paranormal. So we get to be very obvious. But I did not know that it was this level of controversy, which is pretty much as bad as it can get. Yeah, unfortunately, the Warrens were kind of just part of this larger picture of kind of entertainers, personalities, celebrities, who are using every ounce of their power to abuse other people. Yeah.

It's kind of just a pattern throughout history, sadly, that they were very much a part of. Which, it's no wonder they were involved in so many horribly haunted houses. Because any time even something remotely paranormal was going on, people were like, oh, should we call like a priest, a man of the church to come? I don't think so. Let's recruit these sexually abusive paedophiles to come in and talk to the demons and see what happens. Mano e mano. Game, respect, game.

The demons are like, damn, this guy's f***ed up. This guy's crazy. And then they're like, oh my God. Is your chick 15? That's insane. That wouldn't fly down here in hell. And the people who recruited the Warrens are like, these guys are really good because they're really provoking the hauntings. They're talking to the demons.

Things are getting crazy in the house. And it's like, no, it's because these people are awful. It does. It starts to then create a picture because you could say, that the crimes are maybe unrelated to their actual work of paranormal hunting, until you realize that a lot of people have held the opinion that take someone like this who is clearly abusive, that they also, through their paranormal work, were maybe taking advantage of vulnerable families, people who had no money, people who maybe even were mentally ill and used those stories for their gain.

This is like if your house is on fire and you hire gasoline to come and help. And then when the gasoline arrives and the flames get even bigger, you're like, thank God we called the gasoline. Because look how much fire there was that we didn't even know about. And it's like, no, no, you need water. You need someone to actually put it out. You can read about it online. You can get into the weeds of it. There are even cases that they've covered where some of the family members involved.

Have they even tried to sue the warrants for using their name, their likeness without permission. Wow. And they didn't want to be discussed or used their story to be used in the way that it was. Crazy. Are the warrants still alive? No, no. I said they both died. 2006 and 2019.

Okay. To be honest, that's almost a note I feel like leaving it on is, you know, even in my research into the warrants, I found, like, you know, there's like personal anecdotes from people who worked with them. experienced interacting with them on places like Reddit. And some of them are genuinely fascinating interactions that paint very interesting experiences or characters. And some experiences that people insist are strange. We've been investigating the paranormal long enough to know that, you know, strange, interesting paranormal things could have happened somewhere along a 70-year career. Yeah. That was also littered with crimes and hoaxes.

And in many ways, it probably only contributes to the intrigue surrounding this famous couple is trying to understand what was real, what wasn't who they really were. Yeah. And this is the problem with people like this is it's not their job to find out whether or not something is real. Even if they word it that way, you know, it's in their best interest for it to be real and for them to come and solve it. and to be paid to solve it. Yeah. Which is why we do enjoy paranormal investigators more like Dr. J. Allen Heinek, who was paid to investigate UFOs. Not to solve anything, but to just learn about it, hear the cases, and write about them, document them. And hopefully not marry a 15-year-old.

Hopefully. I haven't read that deeply about his personal history. I think he's fine. I think he's fine and highly respect. Fine. So Roaring, at the end of every episode, we got to decide whether we think the case is really paranormal or not. I know this one's a little different. I guess we could say, did we think that the warrants really investigated, came away with paranormal evidence? Do we think that bastards are not? Do we, I think it's just, do we think they were real paranormal investigators or not? That's a hard question. I think whatever the question, it's a no for me, talk. I think. I think, whatever the question, it's a no for me, talk. I think. I think. I want to say no. They were, let's just, let's just run that back real quick.

Quote, Ed was a pedophile sexual predator, physically abusive husband. Lorraine enabled everything. They enabled an illegal relationship to continue for 40 years. Double no this week. Double no. Probably. Double no. It's actually, if anything, I'm disappointed that these are the people that were given the

opportunity to investigate all these paranormal cases. Because I assume in all these years of investigating, there were people that really needed help. And they probably did have paranormal problems. And this was the help they got. Which is a shame. And it wasn't Kit and Rory instead. It is interesting to read about it.

There's a lot of people who are very mad at, I think it's Warner Brothers for essentially, you know, laundering the reputation of these people. Yeah. Through the movies. In the movies, are painted as extremely likable, heroic, religiously pure individuals, which couldn't, couldn't be further from the truth. So let it be a warning to all of you that, unfortunately, something like the paranormal, which is a kind of alternative world, alternative society, economy, weird kind of underbelly of the world. It is full of weird people, but not us.

No. $50,000 tier over on Patreon to see some crazy sex shit go down. Totally legal, though. All legal. Totally legal. It's fine. Yeah. I hope you've enjoyed this case a little bit different.

But I think an important PSA and hopefully important setting the record straight within our paranormal history of the world. If you can't get enough, like we say, head over to patreon.com forward slash this paranormal life to get more. We got bonus episodes. We've got after-party episodes. That's the weekly behind the scenes of the show. And as Kit said, a lot of the cases we covered in today's episode are cases that we've done on the podcast before, including the Enfield Haunting, Annabelle the Curse Dahl. there's a bunch of episodes.

And the cases aren't problematic. No, the cases are fine. It's not their fault who turned up on the front door, is it? It's not. It's just not. It is. Great episodes.

Go back, check them out, listen to them. There's some great ones back there in the catalog. And maybe we'll have to check out that other creepy case we referenced earlier. It had to beep out.

Just maybe. Just maybe. Yeah, that was before I learned one of them was a pedophile. So I think maybe we won't cover that case. Well, no, no, but the people in the story weren't nonses.

Yeah. They were murderers. Yeah. For sure, though. We will be back on Tuesday next week with a much lighter probably paranormal tale on Friday on Patreon with the

after party before then. And in the meantime, remember to live fast, investigate and die young baby.