This Past Weekend - #579 - Mark Zuckerberg

Starting point is 00:00:00 The all-new all-electric Can-Am Origin motorcycle takes you everywhere. Sleek power for the streets and deep adventure routes for the trails. Discover your origin today. Learn more at CanAmMotorcycles.com. I have some tour dates to tell you about. Miami, Florida on May 10th. Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th. St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20th. Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st. Rapid City, South Dakota

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Starting point is 00:01:07 only so few people. He co-founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old. The company that turned into Metta which is where we are today in their headquarters. I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg. ["Shine On Me"] I'm off the stage. You drink coffee man or no? Nah. Really? No. Really?

Starting point is 00:01:48 Yeah. I mean, you've had it. I have. Sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while. Just like a celebration. Yeah, no. Really?

Starting point is 00:02:03 Yeah, no. I just hate anything that messes with, like I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that. Oh really? So you like to keep everything the equilibrium? Yeah, my sister gives me such a hard time about this. She's like, you're just sitting there raw dogging reality.

Starting point is 00:02:17 Wow. It's kind of true. Like, so you, but have you, you've had it before? Yeah, but you just don't like it. Yeah, yeah, I don't like it. So when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do? No, no, no, yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:28 I mean, I wake up and I fight people. Yeah. No, it's... Yeah, no, I mean, I wake up in the morning and are, are we going by the way? I mean, we should, we should get this. Yeah, we're going. What's up, all right, good.

Starting point is 00:02:41 Oh, you mean you wake up and do jujitsu, you mean? Oh yeah, no, I mean, yeah. So I probably wake up like, I don? Oh, you mean you wake up and do jujitsu, you mean? Oh yeah, no, I mean, yeah, so I probably wake up, like, I don't know, seven, 730, whenever, like, the kids start making noise around the house, it's like, all right, sleep is done. And then, like, it's like, I look at my phone, and I'm just like, all these things

Starting point is 00:03:00 that these people are doing, like, you did what? Are you fucking kidding me? It's like, I have to go fucking deal with this? It's like, it's like, this partner, are you really? God damn it, all right, so, and then doing, like, you did what? Are you fucking kidding me? It's like, I have to go fucking deal with this. It's like, it's like this partner, really? God damn it. All right, so, and then it's like, I compose myself and go fight for two hours, like recenter myself. Then it's like, now I can go deal with the stuff.

Starting point is 00:03:18 But no, it's a- So that helps, it's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes, like rolling jujitsu kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I mean, right now I'm doing more striking. So that's really fun. I just, I think it's like the greatest sport. I mean, it's, it's like neurologically stimulating. It's a, you know, it's good cardio, good strength. Oh yeah. A little bit of a threat, right? So it keeps you on, you know, it's not, not like just

Starting point is 00:03:41 like running. I used to like run around the neighborhood, but running is not that thrilling. Running compared to jujitsu is for running is a, running is not really neat once you can do jujitsu. Yeah, no, that's good. Because I think one cool thing about jujitsu is just like, you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose like, like they can submit you, but you'll learn something along the way, right?

Starting point is 00:04:06 And a lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn, too. So it's like, you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it. Yeah, totally. Do you do it? I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:20 Yeah. Yeah. I used to do it a lot. I used to do it a lot. Yeah? Yeah. No, I never got enough striking, but I would just kind of like, but I would just do jujitsu on the mats, you know?

Starting point is 00:04:27 Oh yeah. No, it's so fun. It's just like fun to do with friends. Oh yeah. And some guy chokes you so hard. And then you're just like, God, you're like, oh. It's a good day. It's, yeah. It's just, yeah. It's a cup of coffee. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:41 If a big fella just squeeze you until you can't handle it, it's a cup of coffee. Better than caffeine for me. I don't know. I'm just not into that stuff. Is there like a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet if it's not caffeine? Is there some like...

Starting point is 00:04:56 I drink a very large amount of protein. I mean creatine. I don't know. I don't know. Vitamin D, like all that stuff. Yeah, vitamins, good. But like, yeah. It's not your thing. No, no, it never been my thing.

Starting point is 00:05:13 I, yeah, we're not, oh, well, we saw each other at the UFC and you and your wife were there, right? Yeah, which one was that? I'm trying to think, it wasn't- 312? Was that, that was Alex? I'm trying to think it wasn't- 312? Was that, that was Alex fighting Magomed. Oh yeah. Yeah, I was sad about that, man.

Starting point is 00:05:31 Yeah. Yeah. Dude, your wife, I could see she could like really, it like, she was like head in her hands sometimes. Yeah, no, I think she, I think she would say she enjoys it, but I think she mostly goes to support me. Yeah. me. Um, yeah, no, she's into it I think, um, you know, it's tough. I mean we've gotten to know a bunch of the fighters and

Starting point is 00:05:51 It's just like when you see someone who you know and like get hit or go down. That's like that's tough, right? I mean, it's like I've gotten to uh, like train with valk a few times and um, you know, we were there at 298 when he fought Ilya. Oh yeah. And that was really tough. Didn't you get to walk out with him or no? Yeah, I mean, he asked me to walk out with him. And I was like, all right, yeah, this

Starting point is 00:06:12 will be a cool experience. And then I'm just standing there while they're walking. Did you see that whole meme where he's passing off all his clothes and I'm just just like sitting there like useless. Yeah, no, there you go. That was a fun one. Was that scary? Like, I guess you feel like, yeah, what do I do now?

Starting point is 00:06:32 No, I mean, this was a fun moment. But watching him get hit by Ilya, I mean, it was like right cage shot. It was like three feet from us. And I mean, he's like a big, he's like a tough guy, right? And so that was tough. But so I think after that, Priscilla was like, oh man, I don't know if I can go watch VULK in person again.

Starting point is 00:06:54 But I mean, you know, I mean, we just have friends over. It was fun watching him fight Diego. It was good. It was a great fight. Oh yeah, that was great. That was awesome. Some tough, tough moments in round two and four. But he's his heart, man. I mean, the way he described it after,

Starting point is 00:07:08 did you see the shot in round four where Diego grazed his eyelid? With his glove? Yeah, and he lost his vision. And you could see he was just the head movement and everything trying to stay in a good place. Watching an animal try to survive on one of those Animal Planet shows or something, when you're cheering for the animal,

Starting point is 00:07:27 you're like, oh, it's not going to go well. But then it goes good. Yeah, no. He's an amazing guy. He's really cool. Very talented, a lot of heart. Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters.

Starting point is 00:07:38 I think that's one thing that is great about social media these days, that you get to know the fighters a little bit more, some of their regular life. You can get involved in who they are. Yeah, totally. So it gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Is it tough to take your wife, since you're a, and I'm just going to, I'm going to say the word really fast just so it's like, so we don't dwell on it, but since you're a billionaire,

Starting point is 00:08:01 is it tough to take your wife on a date? Like at that, you know, like, do you have to live up to a standard or what's like a nice date night? What is that like? I don't know, no, I think she's pretty chill. She's a chillionaire, huh? Sorry, that's a horrible joke, my niece will like it.

Starting point is 00:08:20 Yeah, there you go. No, I mean, I think the main thing for me is like, like life is busy. There's like a million things that I could be doing at any given point in time. I just think it's important to like take time, you know, each week, like, you know, Wednesday night, we really try to have a date night, you know,

Starting point is 00:08:38 try to hang out with the kids and put them to bed every night. It's like that's just like an important part of my routine. I think that's important stuff to do. But no, I mean, we try to like go out somewhere, but every once in a while we'll just cook or eat at home and that's all good. The UFC stuff I think is probably more for me than for her. But she's a good sport about it.

Starting point is 00:08:57 Is there something you'll do for her? Or is there like a fancy date? Because you could afford to take your wife on like a date that a lot of us could only dream of, right? That most people could only dream of. Is there something that you like, is there some magical date that you took her on one time? I don't know, that is a good question.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Let's see. She's pretty simple on this stuff. I think most of the, you know, I like doing, I like making things, right? So I don't know if you on this stuff. I think most of the, you know, I like doing, I like making things, right? So I don't know if you saw this thing. I like working with like great artists and stuff. So I did this project where I've always admired Daniel Arsham and he's this like great sculptor.

Starting point is 00:09:37 And I worked with him to make this sculpture of Priscilla because I thought it was cool. And yeah, you're pulling this up. And first of all, I think it's like, make a sculpture of Priscilla partially because that's cool, partially because I'm like, I'm not going to make a sculpture of myself. It's like, that's crazy.

Starting point is 00:10:00 It's like, who the fuck does that? So it's like, she's kind of the target of my creative energy in a lot of places. Like the muse in a way. So there's all these memes online after, yeah, there you go, where people are like, wow, I wonder what Zuckerberg did wrong that he had to make a sculpture of his wife. And I'm like, no, you guys are totally missing this.

Starting point is 00:10:20 This is the thing I did wrong. It's like, you can't, like, you're gonna have to wait to see what I have to do to make up for having made a sculpture and putting it on our front lawn. It's like she didn't want a sculpture of her in the front lawn. It's like, that's, that's weird, right? It's like, you know, it's, but no,

Starting point is 00:10:34 but she's a good sport about it. And, um, that, and at least you can tell the door desk guy, like just set it by the sculpture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of nice. It becomes like, um,

Starting point is 00:10:44 and I think having like a woman as a look out in your yard's kind of nice. It becomes like a, I think having a woman as your lookout in your yard is kind of nice, you know? Yeah, I know it's got like a good angelic form factor thing. It's a good vibe. Did she make you make any adjustments to it or was she like, okay, I'll accept it as is? No, I mean, I don't think she was that happy with it. Cause again, I mean, like who wants a sculpture

Starting point is 00:11:03 of themselves in the front yard? But you know, I think she thinks it's sweet. And I think she appreciates that. I mean, there's a lot of more destructive things I could be doing with my creative energy. Yeah, you made an effort, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and so it's like I designed her this this

Starting point is 00:11:25 Porsche minivan thing it's like we took like a Cayenne and extended it to be bigger It's like I do that cuz it's like alright. I like cars, but I'm not gonna design a supercar for myself Let's like just design a sweet minivan for my wife right it's like yeah, it's just fun. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so I guess creative stuff like that trying to be creative and show her some creativity Oh, that's nice. There you go. I mean look at that and where did you meet your wife at? I met her in school. So we were in college and I had just done this prank And all my friends and everyone was convinced. We were all convinced. I was gonna get thrown out of school Okay, and where were you get in school at mark Harvard? Okay, and so I was a sophomore get thrown out of school. OK. And where were you in school at, Mark? Harvard. OK. And so I was a sophomore.

Starting point is 00:12:06 She was a freshman. My friends were convinced I was about to get kicked out of school. I was going in front of this trial for the school discipline committee. My friends threw a going away party for me. And it was in the bathroom line at the end of the party, where I was just like next to Priscilla,

Starting point is 00:12:27 and we were talking. You had nothing to lose. This is your last meal. I was just like, look, man, like, it's, you know, I have a prednisant man. But it's, like, it was not very a romantic situation. It's like, we're waiting in line for the bathroom. She's just funny.

Starting point is 00:12:42 She's just cute. And it's like, I was like, all right, all right, hey, if we're going to go out, we'd better go do this quickly, because I'm probably going to get kicked out of school in like two or three days. I like that. That's a good pickup line, right? It's like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:55 That's how you really show that you have potential in the world. Well, it's a limited time offer. Yeah, but it's not very aspirational. It's like, hey, I'm going nowhere in life and I'm about to get kicked out of school. So you're gonna wanna, you know, you're gonna wanna go out with me really quickly.

Starting point is 00:13:13 Right. It's like, yeah, I guess another way to look at it, it's very sale rack in a way, you know? Very sale rack, yeah. So, but I mean, but everyone I knew thought that this whole thing was over. I mean, my parents drove up, we lived in New York, they drove up to help lived in New York,

Starting point is 00:13:25 they drove up to help me pack up my dorm room because they were like, it's over, you're coming home. Yeah. But it didn't. Then of course I made Facebook and a few months later I dropped out anyway, so jokes on them. But that's how, yeah, no, that's how it went.

Starting point is 00:13:43 Did you have to go to the trial at school or you didn't? Oh, no, I did. Oh, you did? And it was like, the questions that they asked were even worse than the questions that I get at the congressional hearings. It was like, don't you know that once you put this terrible prank website online, it is there forever?

Starting point is 00:14:01 And it's like, no, actually, that's not how it works. The site's already down. They're like, you're a smart ass. And I'm like, yeah, that's probably true. That's probably true. But. But. But half of a smart ass also is smart.

Starting point is 00:14:15 Yeah. So that's good. I'll take that. It's better than being a dumb ass. Yeah, well, you know, it's like maybe smart and a little bit of an ass. And you know, it works. Yeah, I'd rather be a smart ass, I think.

Starting point is 00:14:24 Do you know about, what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook though. No, no, it was this thing called Face Smash, which in the whole lore of the thing, there's this whole movie that got made about all this stuff. They made it seem like Face Smash was a predecessor to Facebook.

Starting point is 00:14:37 It wasn't. When I was in college, I just liked making things. So whether it's statues or minivans or internets or glasses, like whatever, I just liked making stuff. Yeah. So whether it's statues or minivans or internets or glasses, like whatever, you know, I just like making stuff. You like being creative. Yeah, so like I, so it was, it was very mean spirited.

Starting point is 00:14:57 It was very mean spirited. I basically, I downloaded everyone's ID photos from their ID cards. I made the site where it showed two photos and you clicked on the person you thought was more attractive. And then it used, and it basically took all the matchups and ranked everyone in the school based on who everyone thought was the most attractive.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Very mean-spirited in retrospect, not connected to Facebook in any way. But just like a- Just like a college kid kind of being a jerk. Yeah. But, you know, it's like, okay, so that was not my best move. But you gotta take, you know, it's baby steps.

Starting point is 00:15:37 I mean, yeah. And also pretty cool to make something. Some of the things I did were useful and fun. That one, I put it together in a weekend. Not my best work. Yeah, no, not my best work. That's fair, not your best work. Not my best work.

Starting point is 00:15:51 Yeah, we've all had things we made that weren't the best, probably. Did you, let me think what I'm gonna ask you. Oh, did you, what kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive? Right now, Blackwing CT5. What is it? Um, what kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive? Uh, right now black wings ct Ct5 what is it? Um, it's a Cadillac. It's nice. Oh, it is it's um, it's uh, Here pull it up. It's uh, I

Starting point is 00:16:15 Really like driving manual transmission cars. Oh, yeah, and I like that type of thing, baby. It's uh, It's a good one., god, that's nice. Yeah. That thing will just shift. That thing will just get shifty out there. No, it's good. It's good.

Starting point is 00:16:32 It's got a nice little ass on it. I feel like you want your car to have almost as much horsepower as your helicopter, I feel like, is a rule of thumb. It's probably a rule of a very rich thumb. Yeah. So for a while, OK, so my security team kind of convinced me for like 10 years that I should just let them drive me places, which,

Starting point is 00:16:56 I mean, realistically, I probably should. But then eventually I was just like, I can't do this. It's like I need the freedom, I need to be able to drive myself. So I started learning how to fly helicopters. And then as a car, well, this is just ridiculous. It's like we have the security team driving me to my helicopter that I then go fly away.

Starting point is 00:17:17 It's like, that makes no sense. It's like, let's just go, let's get a car. It's kind of Batman, it's almost as a Batman vibe, but I guess it is true, because then you're just by yourself out there What do you mean? Are we you take somebody with you in the car? No? In the car the helicopter and the helicopter yeah, I definitely have like a real Professional pilot fly with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's wild though. Yeah, but I guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick, right? Yeah, I mean, it's it's a good, it's a good tool to have in the arsenal.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Unreal. Yeah, no, it's, California- You're like a damn emperor, dude. Does that feel like that ever? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Man, it's like, I feel like I wish that people did what I wanted them to do. It's like, that would be fun,

Starting point is 00:17:57 but in the meantime, you can have some fun. Yeah, oh yeah, I would have a chopper. I'd have a, I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel, even though it came right back up next to where it started. I do have an underground tunnel. Do you really? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:10 Yeah. In USA? Well, I have this ranch in Kauai. Yeah, where there's this whole thing where people are like, there's this whole meme about how people are saying I built this bunker underground. It's more of underground storage type situation. Bring it up.

Starting point is 00:18:24 But yeah, no, it's a's like more of underground storage bring it up situation but um, but yeah, I know it's uh, it's uh, oh Wow Zucky got that bonky. What's under the ground is more water, right? It's basically you just said it's sort of a tunnel that just goes to another building yeah It's a good place to hide a little bit of dope though. That's what I would say, dude. Those are the good, that's what I would do anyway. But you and I defer there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:51 So you don't use, you've never used drugs or? I mean, I don't know. D.A.R.E. really worked on me. When I was in third grade, it's like, I don't know, there's all this stuff about how it like, how it backfired and like, it just kind of taught people how to use drugs. For me, it like really scared me. It was like I don't know I don't like any of that

Starting point is 00:19:07 stuff. It's like a friend will show up and like I was like getting an IV to feel better. It's like I don't even want people to like extend their arm and show me their vein. Like it's like that shit like no. Yeah that's true dude. No. I'm raw dogging reality. God. Yeah no it's. There's kind of a fuck. That's kind of insane really these days. It... There's kind of a... That's kind of insane really these days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was like really straight edged and sober, that they was... that that was a nerdy thing, I think.

Starting point is 00:19:33 But now, I never even thought about it for... now that's almost the most insane thing you can do. It's like, wait, you're under the influence of nothing. Nothing. Nothing. From sun up to sun down, you're a fucking animal, you know? It's kind of crazy that things have gone. That the perspective of that has kind of changed.

Starting point is 00:19:56 How big is that tunnel? Is your tunnel pretty big, or what's it like? It's not that big of a tunnel. I made a put a reel on Instagram one day of Priscilla kind of making fun of me playing video games with some friends down there. But it's yeah, no, it's it's it's all good. Yes, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time. You know how the Internet is. The Internet will always make things seem like they're crazier than they are. But you know, what's an under I mean, in Hawaii, it's like having a little storm shelter underground

Starting point is 00:20:27 tunnel's pretty sweet. That's the thing right there? No, I don't think so. That's insane. Is that Roblox? Who built it for you? It looks closer to Roblox than what the thing is. Dude, the future's definitely, things are definitely

Starting point is 00:20:41 getting weird with cars. Dude, I saw four Waymos meeting up behind the Ikea over here. Having a meeting? Yeah. Deciding what they're going to do next? It's just like, what's your next move? I was like, where are you going? Who are you?

Starting point is 00:20:52 Yeah, I think it was. Have you seen Hot Tub Time Machine? I haven't seen it. You would like that. Really? That's good. Yeah, no, I think that there's the self-driving car that's hunting down the guy who is mean to it, and it's good.

Starting point is 00:21:04 Yeah, that's what it seemed like. Dude, there was four it's, yeah. That's what it seemed like, dude. There was four, I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four way Mo's all meeting. Yeah. They, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, what are, who were they? What are they doing? You know? And then my buddy said he was in one and it was crying to him because it like the way Mo was crying. Yeah. The rainbow. The rainbow was like complaining about his spouse or whatever. And it was like, what form does that take? Is it like speaking English or is it like RDD? No, I think he had set it on a British setting. So it was like, oh, me miss is,

Starting point is 00:21:32 is really getting at me. No. So I think cause you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever, or like, um, or a female or semi female or whatever. But like, yeah, I just think Female or semi-female or whatever? female but like yeah, I just think it like Yeah, just some of that way most stuff's just getting out of line I never thought like oh, what are these cars doing until I saw four of them meeting up? And I was like this seems like a lot to me You know that's where the future starts to get a little bit scary as moments like that. We're like what are they doing? What were they doing?

Starting point is 00:22:04 Probably just waiting to pick people up scary moments like that. We're like, well, what are they doing? What were they doing? Probably just waiting to pick people up. But they'd have to do it in a group behind an Ikea? Yeah, I don't know. That does seem like an unlikely place to pick people up. That's true. And well, it just seems I'm not going to defend them. OK, OK, OK.

Starting point is 00:22:19 It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up. Yeah, and then I was in one way, Mo, and it was like, you know? Yeah. And then I was in, I was in one way Mo and it was like, you want to gamble? And I think it was like sponsored by draft games or something. It was like, you want to gamble with me? Yeah. Like, it's like, I bet you $40 you'll never get where you're going. And it was like, this is, this seems as the doors lock. It's like picks up speed. And why are all the way most white too? I'm like, this is I don't know

Starting point is 00:22:48 I just think we got to start to diversify the portfolio. I feel like a little you know, yeah, but what do I know? You So let me switch topics. Sorry. I sometimes get a little bit nervous. Is that alright? Yeah, okay. I mean there's no way that you're less nervous than me. Let me think about how you said that. Yeah. Let me think about that too. More nervous.

Starting point is 00:23:11 More nervous. Yeah. See, I didn't even say it correctly. Really? Oh, but I think that's a trap. I think that I am probably more nervous than you. You think? Yeah, man.

Starting point is 00:23:20 I wake up. I am an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like. What does that mean? I just feel like I'm always, you know. Eh, eh, eh, eh. Why, you know?

Starting point is 00:23:32 I don't know, I just think I've always felt like that. I've always felt like kind of frenetic, you know? It's like how do I get things to calm down more than how do I get things to amp up, you know? Like I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now, and it makes things a lot easier for me to kind of navigate. Interesting. Yeah, it just makes everything easier to focus on. It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out any of those

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Starting point is 00:27:11 You dropped out of college, right? Yeah. And Alexander Wang, he came on one time, and we were talking about him earlier, but he had dropped out of college also. Is that a, do you think people need college still or, cause it's just, you know, you have these creative guys who are having success and they didn't go through college. Do you feel like people still need college? What do you feel like that looks like for now in the future?

Starting point is 00:27:37 I don't know. Well, I mean, college, there's a question of how much of it is about the learning and how much of it is about the kind of like learning how to be a grown up before you kind of go out into the world. I mean, for me, it's like the classes were fine. I mean, that was fun, sort of entertaining part of college. But I mean, I met a lot of people who are really important in my life, right? It's like, I'm in Priscilla, my co-founders at the company, a bunch of people who are still friends,

Starting point is 00:28:09 close friends to this day. So, I think that's almost more of it than like whatever class you took. Right. But, yeah. Yeah, that's just that social is learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents. Yeah. And I mean, and I went to boarding school

Starting point is 00:28:30 for two years and then before I went to college for two years. So I feel like even though I dropped out of college, I kind of got a full experience in a way on that. But it was good. I feel like you just like, you know, you need some time some time away from home a bit

Starting point is 00:28:46 before you fully go out. But I don't know. I think that that'll be a thing. But I do think a lot of people, I'm not sure that college is preparing people for the jobs that they need to have today. I think that there's a big issue on that. And all the student debt issues are like really big issues.

Starting point is 00:29:05 I mean, the fact that colleges, it's just so expensive for so many people. And then like you graduate and you're in debt. Well, you're not even guaranteed a job. Either you would think at a certain rate you're paying, you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment. Yeah, no, I think that's probably the big, the biggest issue with it is it would be one thing

Starting point is 00:29:23 if it were just kind of like a social experience, but you started off neutral. The fact, if it's not preparing you for the jobs that you need and you're starting off in this big hole, then I think that's not good. I mean, that I think there's going to have to be a reckoning with. That's a good point. People are going to have to figure out

Starting point is 00:29:39 whether that makes sense. But I don't know. It's sort of been this taboo thing to say of like, maybe not everyone needs to go to college, because there's a lot of jobs that don't require that. And, but I think people are probably coming around to that opinion a little more now than maybe like 10 years ago.

Starting point is 00:29:58 Yeah. Do you think, I was just talking earlier with Colin, I think one of your assistants, one of your coworkers, sorry, I didn't say assistants, but, and we're kind of saying that, yeah, what classes do you think kids should be learning now? Because with AI coming along and with technology starting to really multiply itself pretty quickly,

Starting point is 00:30:24 our ability to advance is gonna only grow faster, it seems like. Would you feel like that's true, overall statement? Oh yeah, totally. I think it's accelerating. Accelerating, yeah, that's the word I'm looking for, sorry. So with that happening, what are, like I feel like they should be teaching

Starting point is 00:30:37 how to like kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that, that sounds very real to me. Do you feel like that that's, like not how to code or anything, but just how to do it? So, I mean, it's interesting because the technology changes a lot, right?

Starting point is 00:30:52 It's obviously, it's a lot different now than it was 20 years ago when I got started with the company or when I started coding when I was a kid. So, it's not like the specific things I learned to code when I was 15 are the skills I'm using today, but you know, I think there is something about kind of understanding the technology and understanding how to use it and Getting on that train that I think is valuable, right?

Starting point is 00:31:20 But the other thing is I just think like having good mentors or teachers, no matter what the actual class is. Like when I was in boarding school, I really liked studying Latin and Greek. And that's like not useful for any practical thing. No, it's like- Amplership. But it's fun. And like- It's fun. It's fun. It's fun.

Starting point is 00:31:44 I think there are parts of it that are fun for sure and the tests that that I had to take were You know, it's they would you know, you'd be reading these kind of great works and The test would be they'd pull out any word in like Whatever the you know third of a book was that was kind of that that kind of section of the class and They'd like show you a sentence and then they'd say okay this word whatever the third of a book was that was kind of that that kind of section of the class and They'd like show you a sentence and then they'd say okay this word

Starting point is 00:32:16 like give us the full kind of grammatical and and like poetic significance of Of kind of how this word is used by this author in this piece. So, okay I'm not like I'm not that good at language. So the way that I did that class was I basically just sat and studied word by word the historical significance of each word over tens of pages preparing for these exams. And OK, I don't remember that much of that at this point. Right, I mean, there were a few quotes that I think are pretty good from some of those books.

Starting point is 00:32:49 But, and I put them on shirts, but. Have you, P. Pluribus Unum, have you heard that one? Yeah, no, that's a good one. What does that one mean? Let's ball out or whatever? From many one. I think it's talking about how we come together as a people or as states into one union.

Starting point is 00:33:04 Oh, that's nice. P play with us, you know. But so you did it word by word, but it still helped you? But I just think the lesson from that is, it kind of gave me this confidence that it's like, okay, that was a crazy thing to do, to have to go learn what every word's significance, poetic significance and grammatical structure and all that is. And after I took that class, I was basically like, I can work hard enough to do anything that I want.

Starting point is 00:33:35 Because I just fucking learned all these words that don't matter in order to like nail this thing. And like, and I won and kind of did that and got that to kind of, and kind of, had some fun doing it. So. Well, it's like you, like you found a model kind of. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:33:57 And it was hard. It was a tough model. Yeah, so I mean, there's like, there's that. I mean, there's like the math version of that. I mean, you're talking about Alexander Wang on here. I did a bunch of the same kind of math competitions that he did. I had this like super hardcore math instructor

Starting point is 00:34:13 in high school. His name was Zuming Feng. And he- Chinese guy? Oh, yeah. And I think at some point he had worked with... Zooming Fung, bring him up, baby. Zooming Fung, now he is...

Starting point is 00:34:28 We want the Fung, you ever hear that song? They would use to play that? Well, this guy is just like a badass. And he basically was involved in training the US Math Olympiad team for a long period of time. And he made a huge impact on me kind of growing up. And he kind of taught me a little bit about how I approach problems.

Starting point is 00:34:51 He's like, look, you actually, he's like, you kind of have this, he's like, look, you're not that good at math. I'm like, no, no, but I'm kidding. He kind of taught me that I had this sort of intuitive ability to have a sense of what zone the right answer was in. So he's like, I look at your work,

Starting point is 00:35:15 and you do a bunch of stuff that doesn't really make sense. But then at the end, you come to a conclusion, and you realize that that conclusion doesn't make sense. And then you kind of check yourself and go back and do it. And you keep on doing it until you get the right answer is like, I don't understand how you like have this intuitive sense for like what the shape of the right answer is. But like, that's really good. As long as you like couple that with working really hard, you're going to be able to kind of succeed and get a lot and get a lot done.

Starting point is 00:35:42 But so that gives you a map of how to navigate yourself, like your intuition with your hard work. Yeah. So I don't know. It's OK. Does the specific high dimensional geometry or whatever the thing is that we were working on together, like, do I do any of that today?

Starting point is 00:35:59 No. I don't remember any of that stuff. But I think it's like you have some good teachers who teach you how to think and how to work hard. And that stays with you forever. And I think that that's some of the stuff that I think it builds confidence. It teaches you how you approach problems.

Starting point is 00:36:19 Then you just get better and better at some things, and you build confidence. So that's the value you're saying and seeing in college. Those are some of the other values you might not see. Oh yeah, I think so. Might not be able to be seen on paper, but the value of that. Yeah, that's a good point, man. It's like, yeah, I remember some of my favorite people still

Starting point is 00:36:37 to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me or that believed in me or that said a certain, like, man, I admire the way you do this or this, you know, and it really encourages you and kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more. Yeah, and they don't have to be teachers, although obviously, you know, that's-

Starting point is 00:36:55 Or mentors. I think a lot of these days, a lot of people get their mentorship, probably, I would guess, from teachers unless they play a sport, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the main way that you learn those from colleagues, right? It's like people you work with.

Starting point is 00:37:08 And I remember growing up, I was really into computers. Like when did you get your first computer, you think? So my family had a computer probably when I was like eight or nine, and then I think I probably got one. And would you be in there on that thing all the time? Just riding the keys? Yeah, so my dad's a dentist. And he's like-

Starting point is 00:37:31 Oh yeah, he just got a tooth yesterday. Yeah, how's that? There you go. I just got a half of a- Gotta see Dr. Zuckerberg. Really? Yes, he'll take care of you. Did your parents give you love or just Sonic care? That's just an old dentist joke. Glad you got that taken care of you. Did your parents give you love or just sonic care?

Starting point is 00:37:45 That's just an old dentist joke. Glad you got that taken care of. Yeah, I feel a lot better about it. But what were we talking about? Oh, I was just talking about how my dad was the type of dentist who was really into technology. So whenever a new laser thing came out to drill your teeth better, he was on that first.

Starting point is 00:38:03 And that was kind of cool to be around and kind of see. He clearly loved technology. And I think I sort of got introduced to a bunch of stuff through that. So he had, in his dental office, there were a bunch of different operatory rooms, I guess. And they each had computers. And I was like, all right rooms, I guess. And they each had computers and I was like, all right, you know, like.

Starting point is 00:38:28 Oh yeah, it feels like the future in there. Yeah, it's like, but it was still, he'd still like go between them to talk to the different people. I was like, you need like a chat app so you can just like send messages to everyone across the dental office. So I like wrote that for him.

Starting point is 00:38:42 And it's like, all right, that's cool. So you were coding, you were putting coding in like dental office. So I wrote that for him and it's like, all right, that's cool. So you were putting coding into dental work. You were already thinking of how to connect things. I just like making stuff. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's sort of been the theme for me is the intersection between computing technology on the one hand and people and connecting people.

Starting point is 00:39:04 When I was in college, I wasn't there for long, but I was technically a psychology major. I took a bunch of computer science and math classes too. Dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for four days, dude, I would hire them to be my therapist or whatever. Yeah, I wouldn't. Really? No, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:39:23 I'd rather have someone who I definitely subscribe to the theory of you want people who did well at whatever they did, not just who have some random credential. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess, but Ron, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to Mars or something. It was very, you know. Yeah, no, I get it.

Starting point is 00:39:41 So but I think so it kind of differs from place to place. Whenever you drop, whenever you, did you have to tell your parents you were dropping out of college? Was that a crazy day? Did you DM them? Or what did you do? So I mean, I'd already started Facebook. And Harvard had this nice policy where

Starting point is 00:39:55 you didn't have to make a hard decision to drop out. You could just postpone. So I just didn't go back for the next term. But later, my mom told me that she always knew I wasn't gonna finish college. I was like, mom, the hell does that mean? But no, but actually- But that's gotta be the worst.

Starting point is 00:40:12 Imagine this, okay? Say your son or child or daughter or mixed child or whatever, imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know your kid is not going to do good on that test, right? But you still have to stay in there in the kitchen and give them a little bit of chocolate milk and be like, you're going to do good out there today. Benny or whatever his name is, right? But then the second he leaves, you're just like, Oh, good.

Starting point is 00:40:36 We're going to have a. Yeah. It's like Benny's screwed. Yeah. Benny's screwed. Um, no, I don't know. I don't know what it's like. No, but my younger sister. I don't know what we're talking about. I don't know what it's like. No, but my younger sister. Is our conversation going OK? I feel like it's cool you. Yeah. I mean, it's less random than I expected it to be.

Starting point is 00:40:53 You know? It is? I'm just kidding. Yeah, I think it's just hard to talk sometimes to people. No, before I went to college, my mom, I think, told me that she thought I was going to drop out. My younger sister bet me that she was going to finish college before me.

Starting point is 00:41:10 Ooh, I like that attitude. And I was like, now I'm going to get a degree. And they all came true. I dropped out, my younger sister finished college, and then I got an honorary degree. So you know, bonus. Oh, you got a free, they gave you that. I know. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:22 Oh, dang. Do you even get your GED at all either? No, I did finish high school. You did? GED's high school, right? I don't know, I think they make a GED Premier now. I don't know, I don't know, anyone? No, no?

Starting point is 00:41:34 GED's high school equivalent. All right, thank you. I got a real, I got a high school diploma. You got a high school diploma, yeah. That's my education. Dude, that's 94% of our country, so you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats.

Starting point is 00:41:50 So when you started, when you first started, let me think of one thing. Oh, where was your first date that you took Priscilla to? Do you remember? Yeah, for Priscilla, that was, we went to this place, Burdick's. It was- Burdick's?

Starting point is 00:42:02 Burdick's, LA Burdick's,dick's LA Burdick's this uh like chocolate place hot chocolate that was that was pretty good and was it just like y'all went and sat down or you is it like a restaurant or just a place to get yeah it's like a little coffee place little like hot chocolate type coffee place it's um yeah no it's nice they make good chocolates they make these little mice things oh yeah chocolate. So now every year on our anniversary, we get some mice. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:30 Good deal. Nothing like a couple of tech emperors are enjoying a couple of mice, you feel me? I think that's very normal. That's very normal to me, dude. Sorry, that just made me laugh. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freak out. It's just crazy to think.

Starting point is 00:42:52 Well, chocolate mice. Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah, and we'll put that in the notes. Yeah, no, it's not. I feel like when you go full Roman Empire, it's like, give me the live mice Give me the live mice and then one mouse shows up and he has like a bad leg you're like all of them fully live Dude if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg nobody even cares that's the saddest thing about some ice But actually I used to sell hamsters My first job was selling hamsters growing up and a lot of that market

Starting point is 00:43:27 They brought in these Russian hamsters, right? Uh-huh, and it took away a lot of the American market in the Russian ones They're called like the Roborovskis bring up a couple of Roborovskis man. They were They they they took away like the fluffy kind of American ham and they... I mean they're pretty cute. They are cute but the ones that we were getting a lot of them were from Russia. Put from Russia. Put uh, Roborovsky hamsters from Russia.

Starting point is 00:43:56 Uh, with the small white ones with kind of the red eyes. Yeah, they really, I think they put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good. Yeah, no, that's like a vampire. It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of the children.

Starting point is 00:44:15 So one of my daughters is really into hedgehogs. So we found, we were in like, we took them to Japan and there's this hedgehog cafe that you can just go in, and they can just play with the hedgehogs. I've never seen a hedgehog. Yeah, no, they're pretty cute. It kind of looks like that, but less red eyes. But yeah, no, cute.

Starting point is 00:44:36 Shoddy Bay. Yeah. She's out there. Those are beautiful. Now, the idea of cafes where you can hang out with animals. Priscilla was telling me that she took the kids to this cat cafe. And like, it's like my daughter was like,

Starting point is 00:44:51 hanging out with the cats and it was like, couldn't find a cat that she liked. And then like finally found a cat that she was into. And then like, just as she was sitting down, like hanging out with the cat, someone came in and was like, this cat has been adopted and took him. Just like that issue that's going on with that guy.

Starting point is 00:45:09 They deported El Salvador right now. It sounds like very, I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's like a lot of- That seems completely different. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely a completely different thing. You're right. That's-

Starting point is 00:45:19 Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairytale. I don't know how either one of those fairytale ends, but that's so sad that- Well, the cat at least got a home. Yeah, the cat got a home. And this, I think that guy will getale. I don't know how either one of those fairytale ends, but that's so sad. Well, the cat at least got a home. Yeah, the cat got a home. And I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it.

Starting point is 00:45:29 It just spawned a man that could be something like that. Do you have how many daughters? You have a? Three daughters. Three daughters. Yeah. You had three sisters. I did.

Starting point is 00:45:39 Yeah. So you're surrounded by girls. God. Yeah. And did you, what's it like, like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like, what is that like at the Zuckerberg's home? Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like, so, because I'm so busy during the day,

Starting point is 00:45:53 I try to make it so that, like the time that I know I'm gonna hang out with the kids at night, I try to spend like half an hour with each of them at night. And they're different ages. So we got like a nine, a seven year old, a two year old. Oh wow, that's fun. Yeah, so bedtime, I don't know. I mean, the kids are all crazy in different ages. So we got like a nine, a seven year old, a two year old. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So bedtime. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:46:07 I mean, the kids are all crazy in different ways and just kind of like, try to connect with them on, on whatever they want. Like what do they like to, if it's not, the two year old is just like starting to learn how to speak. And she has like, yeah, no. Yeah, well, she's like, yeah, no, the two year old has very strong opinions and I think it's gonna be very interesting. Really?

Starting point is 00:46:32 Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, let me think about what, I mean, she's, I don't know, I need to think about something funny that she's doing. But while I'm thinking about that, the seven-year-old is just like purely generative, constantly just creating things. She's the one who's like, we'll do like 3D printing.

Starting point is 00:47:00 She'll create like 3D worlds in this like Horizon Metaverse system that we're building. She codes, she writes books, she basically like makes music. She is- She's seven years old? She's seven, yeah. Seeing her has really like, I think helped me understand myself in a way because it's like, it's kind of like, okay,

Starting point is 00:47:25 like why do I just keep like building stuff? Like, why do I care so much about creating stuff? And it's like, I don't know. I think some people just like have a thing in them where it's like, they have to create stuff. Like the stuff just like comes out of them. They're constantly generating things and like, and kind of producing stuff.

Starting point is 00:47:39 And you notice that in her. She's like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, I think before, before kind before she started growing up and doing that, Priscilla was just like, why don't you just relax? It's like you've done, you've built enough things. It's like your company is good.

Starting point is 00:47:56 You can just chill. And now I think after seeing this one, she's just like, OK, no, I get it. You have the same thing. You have what she has, right? It's like you're just constantly creating stuff. She's like, dude, yeah, you're Thomas Madison. There you go, there you go. Is that pretty good?

Starting point is 00:48:13 I like that, yeah, no, it's, yeah. Thank you, dude. Every now and then. And then, yeah, no, our oldest daughter is just like. And the oldest one is nine, you said? Yeah, she's nine. Okay, so that's getting up there a little bit. She has eight.

Starting point is 00:48:23 So she's getting into the zone where she's like, she competes, she's doing like, history B and competing in math, and really wants to understand the world. So my activities with her is like, we'll usually go through the news, and she'll find one thing, we'll pick out a story and we'll just like talk about it. And it's really interesting because like, it hadn't occurred to me before

Starting point is 00:48:51 how much in order to understand like technology, you need to really understand like government and civics and politics and law and like all of these different things. So trying to explain to like a child who hasn't thought much about these things is, it's both very fascinating for me. But it's just been like a cool bonding experience of like, and you start off and it's like a really basic understanding. But then after you've done it for like a year or two, OK, she has a very good understanding of the tech industry and the world and all the stuff.

Starting point is 00:49:30 And it's pretty interesting to talk through. Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear, what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? If your kid's 13 and you're still reading the same bears or whatever, some of that's on you. You got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know? Because yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's

Starting point is 00:49:53 head but if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them. Because so often we just expect teachers and different curriculum out in the world or just the world to do that for our children. But man, I think the biggest faucet for a child is the parent.

Starting point is 00:50:19 That's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little. It's just two. We got a bonus. Yeah. So it's, no, she's good. The little one is just a little. Just two. We got a bonus. No, she's good. But I mean, obviously, very. She's just obsessed with her older sisters.

Starting point is 00:50:32 So one day she just decided, I am not a baby. And we're like, oh, you're the family baby. I'm a big girl. That's a core part of her identity, is she's a big girl to you. She's like, email me now. Yeah, no, it's like, yeah like a core part of her identity is she's a big girl. It's like email me now. Yeah, no, it's like Yeah, email me email me at sucker baby at meta. Well, she can't even like fully pronounce it

Starting point is 00:50:52 She's I'm a bit girl. It's like okay. It's like well, maybe learn how to pronounce it first and then I'll believe you but but Now she's like I weigh six terabytes Like calm down, you know Yeah, no, she's... That's so funny being like a... And the stuff that we do, it's like, I mean, it's- A little grid baby. Look, you're trying to teach them basic stuff.

Starting point is 00:51:18 So it's like, we have this book, it's like, how do I feel? Right, and it's just like pictures of other kids and their facial expressions. And it's like the only emotion that she identifies with is happy. And so she'll be having like a terrible meltdown and like sobbing. And I'm like, Oreo, how are you feeling? She goes, happy.

Starting point is 00:51:38 And it's like, no, you don't have to say happy all the time. It's like it's normal. Like in life, it's like we have all these different't have to say happy all the time. It's like, it's normal. In life, it's like we have all these different emotions. It's important to understand when you're sad or angry or frustrated or something. But that's hilarious. So we're still working on that.

Starting point is 00:51:57 We're working on, we're still in the remedial emotional emotions phase. She'll be like crying. You're like, how do you know she knows that's the one? She's like, hey. She knows that's the one, she's like, I don't know. She knows, yeah, no, it's like. Oreo's her name?

Starting point is 00:52:07 Aurelia. But we call her Oreo, which I'm sure we're gonna regret when she's older. It's cute, I think Oreo's a cute name. She'll probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? It could go, you know, Oreo Zuckerberg, dude,

Starting point is 00:52:23 that's when you take, that's when you dude, that's when you take, that's when you get into the food industry. Oreo Zuckerberg. I don't know, she I think could be. The Sugar Empress of Menlo Park. Kids love, like, you know kids love, they go through a phase where they love cleaning, and they love playing cooking, right? It's like, oh, just give me some, like, they go through a phase where they love cleaning and they love like playing cooking. Right, it's like, oh, just give me some like,

Starting point is 00:52:47 like a pan or like, I don't know if that's something. I think a lot of kids like that. She's just like, give me a desk. Like I want to work like dad does. Like give me a desk and like, I don't want to do this like cooking shit. Like it's like, yeah. We want to own a Popeyes.

Starting point is 00:53:06 And she's like, but I like that though, which she has like a play, you know? No, she's a, she's a bit girl. Yeah. I love that idea that some child somewhere, this is going to make my day so much better. Just knowing that a child is just a child behind a desk, just like demanding it's like, like, yeah. is a child behind a desk just like demanding. It's like like yeah

Starting point is 00:53:26 Yeah, there's not enough bandwidth in this Enough bandwidth to the crib. Yeah to pull off what I need to pull off I know the kids, you know, I don't is it fun being a dad. Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters? Or with, yeah. I don't know. I think it's like there's probably some things that they connect better with mother about,

Starting point is 00:53:52 but I feel like there's also, I don't know, there's all these weird dynamics. I think that there are some things that they like probably just connect with me better about, where it's just a different dynamic with father. And what do they call you? Do they call you all dad, father, mother? Dad, although sometimes they're,

Starting point is 00:54:10 if they're being disobedient, Mark. It's like, no. Dad is a title, an honorific title that I've earned. Mark, like what is going on? It's like Oreo, that is bullshit. Get back in your crib. I'll see you in court. No, it's not.

Starting point is 00:54:30 These diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer that's hilarious. That's crazy. I don't know, I think like, it's just good for them to have good role models, right? You know, part of the way that I feel like when kids grow up, they either end up wanting to marry people who are the opposite of their parents

Starting point is 00:54:52 if it was a bad experience, or people who they think of as sort of like, oh, this was a good role model, right? And so I feel like as long as they look up to us, that's kind of the, you want to set a good example. Right? So, I don't know. I kind of, for me, we talked about this a little bit with the fighting stuff early on,

Starting point is 00:55:17 but for me, it's always just been important that it's like, I don't just want to be a person who sits and works all the time. I think we're not meant to just like sits and works all the time. I think like, you know, it's, we're not like meant to just sit at a desk all day long and one day Oreo will learn that. But, you know, I think like a lot of life is like, you move around, you like, you know, it's like, we're like meant to be active and do stuff.

Starting point is 00:55:40 And I think that that's a big part of it. I try to like, it's important to me that, that the kids get that too. And the kids are very active. Do your kids have a lot of screen time? How much screen time do you allow your kids? Yeah. It's different for the different ones.

Starting point is 00:55:57 We don't just let them do whatever. But I actually want them to be fluent with this stuff. And kind of like we talked about earlier. I want them to learn how to code, how to use technology. I think it's important because a lot of socialization obviously happens online at this point. People need to get used to the norms and stuff around that. So they're not on, and they're still

Starting point is 00:56:22 too young to be using social media, but they have Messenger Kids. We make it so that they can video chat and chat with their friends. And we'll obviously monitor to make sure that they're just connecting with the people who we think that they should. But I think it's actually good.

Starting point is 00:56:41 I think people need to grow up. I don't need to, strong. But I think it's good if you have an engaged parent and as a child you learn up, you grow up learning how to use a bunch of this stuff. So I think that that's all good. I want the kids, to the extent that they're interested in it, to learn how to code, learn how to create stuff,

Starting point is 00:57:06 whether it's in Horizon or VR tools, or they play Roblox and Minecraft and stuff like that. I think that's good. And then there's a lot of educational study type tools that when our daughter's studying for her competitions or whatever, she can make a lot of progress on that. So I think that that stuff is good, but we're not just like letting them just kind of sit

Starting point is 00:57:31 and watch stuff all day long. So you think- Unless you're on a plane, then you do whatever you need to do to get through that flight. Yeah. Thank you, dude. Somebody else needs to say that.

Starting point is 00:57:43 Yeah, no. Where's the, I want to, When do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours? I'm not saying there's anything crazy, nothing illegal, but we need... We need a high voltage pacifier back in society, Mark. Oh, man. Give us something, brother. Yeah. These kids are screaming. They, they sometimes do. I will...

Starting point is 00:58:06 Yeah, the craziest thing happened to me, one time I'm on a plane, I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams because I never have good sleep or anything. So every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming. And I go back underwater. Um, but I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele, and at some point I wake up,

Starting point is 00:58:29 and there is a effing child, or child as some people call him, playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I was still groggy from being asleep, and I was like, we can't do this today. It's like the ukulele is, it's a- It's a lot. It's time out for ukulele.

Starting point is 00:58:53 We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here, brother. I mean, it probably took a lot of restraint to not just pick up the ukulele and smash it. Oh yeah, it really did. Yeah, I mean, it's- It really did. So I just said, we're not doing this today.

Starting point is 00:59:05 In a tone that was... That seems stern for a child. It was. Especially for a child who is not your child, who you don't know. Very fair. Type of thing that you could cause a scene. Very fair.

Starting point is 00:59:19 I got lucky. The parents were... They agreed. They were probably pissed about the ukulele too. But they were afraid to tell their kids something. Yeah, it's like, so you did them a favor. Yeah, it's like, hey, Oreo sometimes, business is closed.

Starting point is 00:59:30 Yeah, no, it's like, yeah. Working hours are over for today, okay? It's. Well, you'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like some of you just have to, you know, but some of the, so I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids from being on planes or screaming on planes.

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Starting point is 01:04:09 That's shipstation.com code Theo. I do think a future version of the glasses will get there. I think you had a chance to play around with this a bit. Yeah, I did. Are those the ones you have on right now or no? No, this is sort of, I mean, these are the ones that are available today. These are like our eye glasses.

Starting point is 01:04:25 So I mean, they're glasses. They can, the main thing is they can, you can take photos or videos with them. I love just using them for listening to music and taking phone calls on them because your ears are open. So it doesn't obscure your ability to hear anything else. The audio quality is really good, right? Because it is a microphone, like it's a contact mic that's

Starting point is 01:04:49 like basically in the nose pad. Audio quality is great. Yeah, so when I'm like, you could be on a plane and take a phone call. And like the other person on the other side can't even hear that you're on a plane. It's just like the, you can be in a wind tunnel and it's just like, whatever.

Starting point is 01:05:03 The sound quality is amazing. But then the main thing is they're AI glasses. So glasses, I think, are the perfect form factor for a device where if you want to have an AI that you let see what you see, hear what you hear, it can talk to you. You can talk to it throughout the day. And glasses is that's like, yeah, if you want to have something that has the same context of the world that you do,

Starting point is 01:05:31 it's going to be glasses. And there's like a billion or two billion people in the world who wear glasses already. So to me, the chance that we look back like a decade from now and like all those glasses aren't AI glasses by that period, it's kind of like, like obviously all the flip phones were gonna become smartphones, right?

Starting point is 01:05:53 I mean, that was clearly a thing that was gonna happen. I think that's gonna happen with glasses too. But the other piece of this is that you're gonna get the ability to kind of put holograms in the world. So our experience with technology today is, I know it's kind of funny in a way how it's divided, where we have the physical world all around us. And then if you want to interact with something digital,

Starting point is 01:06:19 you need to put a screen up. So maybe it's like this, you have your small glowing rectangle, your phone with you, you know, you have like, you know, your screen if you want to like project something. Yeah, your computer. But I think in the not too distant future, this should be blended together, right? You'll have like the physical world,

Starting point is 01:06:37 but all this digital stuff should just basically be holograms, you shouldn't need like a physical screen. Like there's no reason why in the future, you know, you want to have a screen there. You'll just have glasses and that screen will be a hologram. Right. And that's what you put me in. Yeah. Somebody put me in it. Yeah. And that's that's final season of Stranger Things back there. I got put in whatever they put on me. It was like Lenscrafters makes Lens crafters look pretty, you know, lame. Well, it's different, it was, well it was crazy.

Starting point is 01:07:11 I'll say it, it was like, can I say what happened to them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, so they put it, you put the glasses on, and it's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now, right? So it's like years down the line. How many years down the line do you realistically think that those could?

Starting point is 01:07:28 I'm hoping that we'll have a version of that as a product in a few years. But it's going- Like four years or eight years? Hopefully closer to four or even less. But I think that there will still be simpler glasses like this and then there will still be simpler glasses like this, and then there will be more complex glasses.

Starting point is 01:07:47 Those will be more expensive. There's more technology back then. Right. What do you want, kind of? Yeah. So some people will want more tech. They'll want the holograms. Some people just want a simple experience where it's like,

Starting point is 01:07:55 all right, I got the AI. I got the ability to listen to music and phone calls and do all that. And then obviously, the less tech that you put into them, the thinner they can be, which I mean, some people like bulky glasses, some people want thin glasses. Yeah, it was fascinating.

Starting point is 01:08:11 Yeah, yeah. They had a thing on my wrist, right? Uh-huh, neural interface. A neural interface? Yeah, I mean, you could basically control the glasses with your mind through signals that you're sending from your brain to your hand. Yes, it was fascinating. It was like I could like touch different nodules that I needed to and stuff

Starting point is 01:08:30 or different nodes, whatever it's called. I could look at certain things and that would highlight what it was. And it was like a screen. It was just a screen in midair. And I could walk around the side of the room and then come back and the screen would still be there. But it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on. Yeah, it's a hologram. Yes, and it was crazy, man. I don't know. And then I was like, well, my first thought was like,

Starting point is 01:08:56 well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Because people aren't just gonna go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps. There's like, almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then in advance, or the first mobile phone, and then you have the first meta glasses,

Starting point is 01:09:11 and then it advances and stuff like that. So it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man, who I just met him, and we played ping pong. And I believe it was an Asian guy, and I don't know if they did it on purpose or not, and I don't know if ping pong is Asian. But people think it is.

Starting point is 01:09:27 And I started playing with this man back there, you know? And the table. Did you win? Huh? Did you win? Dude, who knows? We're in the future. I don't know if they keep score.

Starting point is 01:09:35 I think everybody gets a medal. No, you definitely keep score. Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah. And in our future, not everyone gets a medal. Yeah, I like that. No, it's. Who are you not to entertain?

Starting point is 01:09:43 Yeah, no, that's more, yeah. Oreo, are you not entertaining? Yeah, no, it's like, yeah, no, that's more, yeah. Oreo, fire up the grill. Yeah, no, it's- Loser burns. But no, the, but we could play a game of, and it was a not real, it was a ping pong table in front of us that was not real. It was like 3D ping pong. Yes.

Starting point is 01:10:02 So it wasn't there. Someone could ride their bike through it, like your dumb brother could ride his frickin' bike. Like, dang it. Yeah. Ricky, bro. You frickin' rode right through our net. So I mean, I think it's an interesting thought experiment

Starting point is 01:10:16 how many of the things that we physically have aren't going to need to be there in the future. Right, so pretty much every screen doesn't need to be there. It'll just be a hologram. Any media, any book that you're playing, any board game, any cards, those are. That would be nice.

Starting point is 01:10:32 Because one thing I hate is at the airport, all these TVs are on. It's like everything is so loud now. It's like, can you just make it for you? Just turn it down. Yeah, personalize it. Why do we all have to experience this painful noise sometimes? Yeah, it's like you're driving through a city

Starting point is 01:10:49 and there's billboards and nothing is personalized. It's like how TV used to be. I mean, in the future, now all the stuff that you use on your phone, it's like you get exactly what you're interested in and it's just a much higher quality experience. But there's all this physical stuff that just stuck and is static.

Starting point is 01:11:05 And yeah, I mean, everything I think is going to be able to... Sorry, not everything, but I think it's an interesting thought experiment, how much of the stuff that we physically have today that just doesn't actually need to exist in the future. So. Do you think, is social media bad? I mean, I don you think, um, is social media bad?

Starting point is 01:11:27 I mean, I don't think so. Yeah. Maybe that's not the right term. Um, like at a certain point does. Yeah. Like how much, you know, there's been like studies on where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression, that sort of thing. Like, do you, what do you think about that? Like?

Starting point is 01:11:47 Yeah. So, so look, I mean, we obviously study this stuff pretty carefully. You guys do? Yeah. I mean, we study it, we work with academics to study it. You know, as you can imagine, there's a lot of like media coverage of this stuff. That's like very sensationalist that tries to like have a skewed point of view. My understanding of the current state of the research is that there isn't a conclusive finding that this is negative for people's well-being.

Starting point is 01:12:16 So I think that that's. And in general, some of the stuff that ends up being positive for people is building relationships. So there's the media part of social media there's sort of the media part of social media and there's the social part of social media. I think the interacting with people, to the extent that that's helping you build

Starting point is 01:12:35 good relationships, I mean, friendships and good relationships is one of the things that correlates the most strongly with positive wellbeing and like feeling good about your life and all that. The media stuff, I think that's more entertaining. I think people want things that are fun. Yeah, people want to be entertained, for sure. It doesn't necessarily correlate with good well-being

Starting point is 01:12:56 or bad well-being. But I guess the way that I think about this stuff is that it's, our modern online environment is, it's just an environment in which we live in a way that has pros and cons, like whether you live in a city or a rural place, right? It's like, okay, like some people may prefer living in a city, there's like things that are good about a city, there are things that are bad about a city.

Starting point is 01:13:25 Okay. Like the fact that we went from being primarily offline as a society to now like this kind of hybrid kind of physical and digital reality. There's some things that are better about that. Some things that are, that are maybe less good. It's not that every single thing improves at each step along the way, but I think overall

Starting point is 01:13:48 it's kind of the overall effect is significant improvement. And I just don't see a way that people would want to go back to not having services where they can get the content that they're interested in, and where stuff is personalized to them, and where they can communicate with the people who they want and don't need to be constrained to just the people who are physically around them.

Starting point is 01:14:05 It's just, I mean, we're just, you know, we're not going back to that. And if you look throughout history, it's like when people first built cities, there were all these, there's a lot of kind of nostalgia for the simpler life and things like that. It's like, OK, yeah. And yeah, sure, maybe cities aren't better

Starting point is 01:14:26 in every single way. And some people might prefer to kind of only go sometimes or whatever. But I just think it's like we're building more and more capabilities as a society. And I think that that's sort of, I just think about this stuff more as like an environment in which we live.

Starting point is 01:14:40 So then it's more like if, yeah, like sometimes I think like, cause I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have, it's's like well, we're moving into such a like technology is advancing so much faster, right? It's accelerating the advancement speed and then We're just humans and we're in this Space now where there's like one generation of the next where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really Yeah, so I wonder and I think the older generation probably sees it as like, man, this is so negative.

Starting point is 01:15:08 Everybody's stuck. But I wonder if the younger generation, do they even know any different, right? You know, like just, I start to wonder what is the value of being human? Like, like what is the, does that start to dissipate as we become more technologically advanced or does that alter? Do you think about that sometimes? Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's going to give people the freedom to focus more on the things

Starting point is 01:15:33 that they want. I think if you look at the arc of history, go back like, I mean, before, in ancient times, life was pretty brutal, right? It's like, OK, so then you go to like maybe right before the industrial revolution where- They had team toilet paper at one time. They had like group toilet paper and it was like- Yeah, I mean, that's not good.

Starting point is 01:15:52 That's not good. That's not good. Yeah, and I don't think, I mean, you don't wanna, yeah, no, I think anyone who has nostalgia for the past really is not taking into account the disease and the lack of hygiene that existed in the past. So I think that there's, so anyway, but pre-industrial revolution,

Starting point is 01:16:10 I think some huge percent of the population was farmers because basically everyone needed to be focused on growing things in order to have enough food. Then we basically got to the point where, OK, now we can start to produce food much more efficiently. So that actually frees up a lot of people to not have to be farmers. Now maybe like 2% of people could be farmers,

Starting point is 01:16:38 and 98% of people can do other stuff. So now people start doing more kind of other creative stuff and inventing new things and And at each step along the way kind of Like being a farmer is a really hard job, right? it's like you're working like a lot of hours and and and and now as As kind of people got more options they took other jobs

Starting point is 01:17:02 But then we've also seen this mix where the percent of people's time that has gone towards leisure and entertainment has just steadily increased over time. And I just think that that's going to continue to be the case with technology. We'll have more stuff that will make it so that the basic needs are taken care of, which will free people up to do some combination of more creative jobs

Starting point is 01:17:26 and not have to work as hard if they don't want to. But I think some people are going to like working all the time, like me, and you'll be able to do that too and get more done than you could have ever possibly done in the past, but that'll be sort of a choice. Well, since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know? How do you know that what your convictions are,

Starting point is 01:17:53 how do you gauge if what your convictions are are the best for everybody kind of? How do you kind of figure that out? It seems like such a challenge. Yeah, well- Does that make sense to the question or no? Yeah, no, I think I get what you're asking. I mean, look, at the end of the day,

Starting point is 01:18:11 there are still a lot of options of things that people can do. Just because I build something doesn't mean that people are gonna use it. Actually, a lot of the things that I build, some of them work, some of them don't. And I think part of the reason why the company's been successful

Starting point is 01:18:25 is because maybe we have a slightly higher hit rate of things working than others. But it's kind of like, I don't know, in baseball, it's like most people don't get on base most of the time, right? So it's like, running one of these companies, more of the stuff doesn't work than does. And if we do something that doesn't work, then in general, people aren't going to use it.

Starting point is 01:18:52 And then the future doesn't go in that direction. So I see. So you're saying it's up to the user more. Yeah. I mean, look, I kind of think one way to look at the world is that there's a version of history that says that like individual people are very powerful and have a lot of kind of autonomy and ability to kind of go in the direction

Starting point is 01:19:17 that they think is right. And then there's like all these other narratives where people try to kind of diminish people's autonomy and authority. And I'm just like, I've always been a person who really kind of believes that people understand people are smarter than people think. Yes. And, and I think in general are able to make good decisions for their lives. And when they do things that like the media or whatever things don't make sense, it's generally because the media

Starting point is 01:19:47 doesn't understand their life, not because the people are stupid. Like if people are saying something that seems wrong, it's not usually misinformation, it's usually that you don't understand what's going on in that person's life. And I just think that there's like a certain kind of paternalism in some of the mainstream narratives

Starting point is 01:20:05 and some of the media narratives. Like a know-it-all-ism almost? Yeah, it's like I- There has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more. Yeah, I think it's a little more receptive as maybe some of those cultural or media elite people are having a harder time predicting

Starting point is 01:20:20 what's gonna happen in the world. Maybe there's a little more humility of like, okay, maybe we don't understand all of this. But to me, the best predicting thing has always been, like, all right, if you build something, do people actually think it's good? Because like at some level, you know, I just believe that people are actually very smart

Starting point is 01:20:38 and understand their lives very well. And if you're building something that is useful for them, then they will use it. And if you're using something, and if you're building something that is not useful for them, then they will use it. And if you're using something, if you're building something that is not useful for them, then they have other options, they will do something else. And so, I don't know, it's always served me well to generally have faith in people

Starting point is 01:20:58 and believe that people are smart and can make good decisions for themselves. And whenever we try to like adopt some sort of like attitude of, oh, we must know better than them. It's like, we're like, we're the people building technology. That's when you lose, right? And if you do, and if you have that attitude for long enough, then you just like become a shitty company and you lose

Starting point is 01:21:19 and you lose and you lose, and then you're irrelevant. So, so I tend to just think that at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, I think people are smarter than a lot of people think, and I think ultimately drive the direction that society goes in. So like people, a lot of times, like there's guys who are like kind of,

Starting point is 01:21:40 you know, Elon Musk is probably like a socially awkward guy, and I would say that, I mean, I think it's. It's okay. Yeah, yeah. We all are. Right, we all are, right? I think we all are. Yeah. And it's interesting that there's like probably people,

Starting point is 01:21:52 I mean, have you ever felt socially awkward over your years? No, I'm really smooth. Okay, okay. No, no, no, obviously. Yes, yeah, I'm like the most awkward person. People have been calling me a robot online for 20 years. It does wonders for my confidence. No, your confidence cannot be impaled, I don't think.

Starting point is 01:22:11 That's one thing you have that's probably a sheer North Star inside of you. It's got to be... You've got to become bulletproof. I think there's times where, yeah, you seem like a guy who probably like, like, watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know? But I think we all go through like, we're all like awkward in different ways. You know, you put you in certain environments and you're not at all. But I think it's interesting that there's-

Starting point is 01:22:35 Haven't found those environments yet, but maybe, you know, it's- Dude, even being here today, bro, is nice of you. It's nice of you to be here today. I think the podcasts are awesome because you just like, you get to explore something. Right, for sure. But here's my question. Sorry, Mark, I didn't mean to of you. It's nice of you to be here today. No, I think the podcasts are awesome because you just like you get to explore something. Right, for sure. I mean, here's my question. Sorry, Mark. I'm gonna interrupt you. No, go for it. But I'm not gonna get another chance to. So, my question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who have, would probably self-describe as socially awkward at times, kind of creating technology that socially connects people.

Starting point is 01:23:05 That's the thing that, do you ever kind of find that kind of fascinating? Cause I've always had a belief that, that like sometimes socially awkward people are almost a mix between human and like machine, like the future or something. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah, you know, it's an interesting question. I just think that there are a bunch of factors

Starting point is 01:23:30 here that you need to peel apart. I think someone can be socially perceptive and understand kind of what is going on in social dynamics and have a lot of empathy and care about other people while still being quite awkward in how they communicate. And so I don't think you can build a great social. Yeah, I'm trying to build too broad of a bridge. Nah, well, I think it's a fair point, right? I mean, it's like, all right, a lot of social media is like people creating great content

Starting point is 01:24:09 and kind of communicating really well. And those are not my biggest strengths, right? It's like, I don't think I'm the best communicator by a long shot. I mean, I think I kind of got to where I am because I think I kind of understand what people like and I have the ability to build it. But I don't think my strength is like, oh, I can really communicate about why

Starting point is 01:24:33 what I'm building is awesome. I generally like to make it so that my work speaks for itself. And I try to explain it so I can kind of explain how I'm thinking about it. But I don't think people primarily like using our stuff because they saw me talk about it and they're like, oh yeah, this seems super exciting now. But I think the ability to kind of communicate

Starting point is 01:24:55 in a way that is not awkward is a different skill than the ability to kind of understand and have empathy for kind of people and social interactions. And it's, you know, there's an interesting thing where I actually think sometimes a lot of the people who can communicate in the smoothest way sometimes have a lot less empathy and understanding of social dynamics

Starting point is 01:25:21 than the kind of nerdy guy who may not be able to express himself quite as well, but sort of understands a little bit better what's going on. And I don't know, the world's complicated and there's like multiple dimensions to all this stuff and no one's good at all of them. So you just, you know, try to do the things that you like hone the things that you're good at and try to put it to service to do as good of work as you can. Yeah. I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think

Starting point is 01:25:53 that one something isn't social and then the younger generation thinks that it is social. And so I feel like in some senses we're at this crossroads kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit in this advancement. And sometimes those steps are, uh, are kind of tricky to take. Um, this is my last question, cause I know you have to go. Um, so I feel like Elon Musk has like a, like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate different planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing, dude, he's just blasting his seat out into the different rockets or whatever.

Starting point is 01:26:24 You know, he's just out there, you know, he's like, dude. He's just blasting his seat out into the different rockets, whatever. He's just out there. He's like the Johnny Apple solar system. God bless. No, God bless 100%, dude. And yeah, 100%. And I'm just joking. I think he probably would know that. But I just think it's interesting.

Starting point is 01:26:42 You get what his ideas are. He wants to like, we want to be on Mars, and we want to send the rockets, and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff. And you're such an innovator and a leader. What do you feel like is your kind of, it's not a goal, but kind of where do you, what draw, like, what is the thing where you see us, you know? Like where you're at a point where like, man, this is what I'm really proud of, and this is where I see us going. Because we're all on this bus together going somewhere,

Starting point is 01:27:09 and we don't exactly know where we're going because it's the future. But you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus, or you're at least riding shotgun. So it's like, where are we going? I mean, I think different people just care about different parts of the future. So the space thing, I think different people just care about different parts of the future.

Starting point is 01:27:27 So the space thing, I think it's cool. I'm glad that people are working on it. It's never really been my main thing. For me, it's kind of been about the intersection of how do you build technology that helps people connect with each other and understand the world better and just take in different formats over time, right? So when we got started, people were mostly like,

Starting point is 01:27:53 writing text, then we got smartphones and we got cameras with the smartphones. We started taking a lot of photos and sharing that. And now most of what we do is video, right? The mobile networks are good enough that you can like share great video. It used to be- Oh yeah, it's great.

Starting point is 01:28:10 Yeah, like 10 years ago, you try watching a video, it's like buffering, buffering. It's like, okay, this is terrible, but now it's good. People always want to both kind of express their ideas and experience other people's ideas in whatever the richest format is that they can. So if that was gonna be text then that was the best that they had great. Photos visual great a picture's worth a thousand words. Video better than photo for most things but I don't think that's

Starting point is 01:28:38 the end of the line right. I just think we're gonna be here, whether it's five years or 10 years, and I think the ability to fully capture moments, to really be able to experience them, I think that's sort of the hologram thing that we're talking about. I think that that's just gonna be the next level of people being able to express ideas. Like the next palette kind of? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the next palette kind of? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:06 Like the next blank canvas? So that's one thing. And then there's the whole AI thing, which we haven't spent as much time on. I know we didn't get into, sorry. We should, we should. Which that is really going to give people a lot of new tools to kind of,

Starting point is 01:29:24 both just get smarter at everything they do. And if you look at the world like I do through this lens of how do we express ourselves and how do we kind of take in an understanding of what's going on, AI is just going to be super powerful for both of those. It's, I mean, you can already see some of the basic stuff with people creating images or editing images. Oh, it's unbelievable. I mean, it's crazy how fast it's happening, too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening.

Starting point is 01:29:50 But do you envision this like, are you just like, what do you envision that will be on these surfboards? Do you have kind of like a utopian idea? I just wonder, how do you see things? Because you're the only like, you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought. I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:30:12 Well that we, you know, you're one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So it's like, how do you, what is it? What is it like out there? I mean, I think that we're going to get general intelligence. We're gonna have systems that are smarter than any individual. And I think it's mostly gonna be very empowering for people.

Starting point is 01:30:34 First of all, look, there are already systems that are smarter than any one individual today. If you take a company, it's like, okay, you got like a thousand people or 10,000 people who are all kind of like working towards, ostensibly working towards a goal together. If the intelligence of a 10,000 person company is not greater than the intelligence of a single person,

Starting point is 01:30:55 then like, what are we doing here? So there are already these systems in the world that have this sort of super intelligence that is far exceeds what any one person can do. And I just think like, instead of having relatively few people be able to kind of harness the power of like, you have the ability of, you know,

Starting point is 01:31:15 you have a 10,000 person organization that can help you build the things that you think are good. I just think in the future, almost everyone is gonna have that. And that's cool. What does that mean? It means that more ideas are good. I just think in the future, almost everyone is gonna have that. And that's cool. What does that mean? It means that more ideas are gonna get tried out.

Starting point is 01:31:28 So you might be leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI. Yeah, and I think it's gonna be every field, right? So science will get more advanced, will get more productive, but I think a big part of the internet is stuff just gets more fun and funnier and like the memes get weirder and more specific and like that is advancement to like universal basic technology kind of in a way it's just the ability to

Starting point is 01:31:56 To kind of express these like very complicated ideas in like a very simple piece of media I think we're gonna get better and better at that. And that advances our kind of understanding of ourselves as a society. So yeah, I don't know. I think we'll get super intelligence. And I would guess that it will be a continuation of this trend that humanity has been on for a hundred plus years of basically getting more time

Starting point is 01:32:23 to do creative things, less time having to do drudgery Not having to spend as much time working if you don't want but if you want to Dedicate your life towards that you're gonna have more powerful tools than you could ever have possibly imagined So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice is how you see that like just kind of that Sort of thing. What do you mean? It's not like you're like like Convicted to this sort of like future as we advance, like it's just a space of choice.

Starting point is 01:32:48 If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those, and if you want to be able to do these things, you can do those. There you are on the bus right there. There you go. I mean, that's a little weird of a photo, but you know. I did not think that is good. I did not think that is good.

Starting point is 01:32:59 I don't like that at all. And we, no, thank you for telling us that though. Yeah, no, it's- It's horrible AI. Yeah, I think that was open AI, dude. So sorry about that. Do you think you'll live forever, Mark? Is that a thought coming to your head? Oh man. That is an interesting question.

Starting point is 01:33:16 I think- You have two minutes to answer, then you have to leave. Yeah, no, I don't know. Live forever. Gosh, I think at some point we will, like a lot of, well, let me come at it this way. Outside of meta, the philanthropy that I do with Priscilla, the Trans-Aquaburg Initiative,

Starting point is 01:33:39 is primarily focused on curing diseases. And the way we're doing that is not by focusing on any single disease. It's by focused on kind of basic technology at the way we're doing that is not by focusing on any single disease. It's by focused on kind of basic technology at the intersection of AI and biology to accelerate the pace of science. And we originally thought that kind of 100 years from when we started was sort of around the time frame

Starting point is 01:34:01 to be able to cure and prevent and deal with all diseases. I know there's a chance that that happens sooner than because of all the work with AI. I guess I'm more optimistic about that now. That means that we are going to live forever, or we just have healthier lives for the period that we're supposed to be living.

Starting point is 01:34:22 And then at some point, like your human body is done. I don't think we understand that yet enough. But a lot of curing diseases is not just about living forever. It's about having better lives. And it's like, while you're alive, like you don't want to have to deal with shit, right? It's like where you're just like, you feel terrible because you're sick or like you're alive, you don't want to have to deal with shit. It's where you feel terrible because you're sick, or you're injured.

Starting point is 01:34:50 Do you think it's possible? Because you have an understanding of science and being human that supersedes a lot of people's. Do you think it's possible that we could figure that out? Curing all diseases? To be able to live, to keep life. Do you think it's possible we we could figure that out? Curing all diseases? To be able to live, to keep life, like do you think it's possible that we could figure out how to do it?

Starting point is 01:35:09 I think it's possible. I don't know, it's honestly, it's not an area that I've studied that much. It's- Didn't know, cause we don't know. We don't know what's going on, Mark. And we just want you to tell us. Yeah, I mean, no, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:35:20 I don't know. Let's check back in in 10 years on that. I think as the AI stuff makes more progress, I think we'll kind of get a sense of the trajectory for that. But I think it's just going to unlock a lot of creativity and productivity and fun. And I think people, the technology industry

Starting point is 01:35:38 misses fun a lot. I think that that's one observation that I've had building stuff out here, is people are very focused on like, all right, we're gonna make like a better word processor. We're gonna like process information better, cool. But I know a lot of what people care about is just like, all right, I wanna like be entertained.

Starting point is 01:35:59 I want like, I want my life to be fun, right? I want something that's funny that I can then go show to my friends. And then we can talk about that and then just hang out and have a good time showing each other funny things and talking about what the world is. And I think AI is going to make this stuff all great. So I don't know.

Starting point is 01:36:19 I do think this is a big focus for us. And we're building this meta AI. It's our, we call it personal AI. I mean, our goal on this is not just to build something that's like, I mean, yeah, it's gonna be super smart, right? It's like, yeah, we're trying to solve full general intelligence and super intelligence and all that.

Starting point is 01:36:39 But I think in order to build the product that people are gonna wanna use, you're gonna wanna build something that's fun to use. That means like, you're not just going to want to like type to it, you want to like have a conversation, right? And it's not just about having it be like only able to answer hard questions. It should like get to know you and like what you think is funny and like what you ate, right? So that way you know it can like or you know what your hobbies are. So that way it can kind of relate to you and

Starting point is 01:37:05 People don't know that AI can do that. I think there we need we're missing quickly. I think an education Educating people how to what AI is and how to use it I think I noticed even in my own life and I spent a lot of time in online involved in stuff But I think people are not understanding what's going on So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can. I think whoever can also serve people the best way to educate themselves is going to be able to best exert

Starting point is 01:37:31 or be able to best coagulate people to their AI model or whatever. You've never heard coagulate used that way? Or something like that. I get what you're saying. Because that's the big thing. A of people like we have the best yeah But most people like what the hell is what are we doing? Yeah? I'm saying yeah, so anyway Sorry, I think I kept you longer than we're supposed to but um

Starting point is 01:37:54 Yeah, sorry. We got a lot of technological stuff I think it's just kind of like you know we don't know what's happening and sometimes we want to talk we get to talk to Me like you and it's important. You know yeah, no, it's good. This is a fun conversation. Yeah, man, I enjoyed it too, man. Yeah, thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with us. And I hope that, yeah, just keep, make sure we stay alive or whatever we're supposed to.

Starting point is 01:38:17 And just keep taking. Working on it. OK, that's all we can ask for now, sir. All right, awesome. Mark, thanks, dude. Appreciate it, brother. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm just floating on the breeze,

Starting point is 01:38:27 and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found. I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take a little I also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental That's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California

Starting point is 01:38:59 They glued my tooth was broken and they glued it back together Before the interview today. So I'm thankful that they helped and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks.

This Past Weekend - #579 - Mark Zuckerberg

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