This Past Weekend - #598 - Joaquin Phoenix

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Starting point is 00:01:41 Today's guest is Mr. Joaquin Phoenix. ["Shine On Me"] Yeah, do you have any, are you okay if we start Joaquin? I am, why are you looking at the ground? What's going on? I don't know. I just feel like I'm a little bit nervous. Oh, it seems like, it seems like the assassin, like before he's about to fuck people up, he's just like staring, like getting in the zone. It's like, let's do this. So I was like, okay, yeah, I mean, start, sure, man, start.

Starting point is 00:02:22 I think I'm waiting for like the coaches in my head to show up and be like, you can do this, you know? Wait a minute, you can do this. You can definitely do this. Thank you. I'm questionable. But, coach is like, he's questionable. We're not sure if he's going to play. Hey, that's not Jimmy Chitwood, okay?

Starting point is 00:02:41 We got to sit that guy on the bench, you know? I don't know who that is. Oh, it was the guy from Hoosiers, remember? Who comes in and makes the show. I don't remember. Dang. Thank you for telling me you don't remember instead of pretending like you do, though,

Starting point is 00:02:53 so I keep talking about it. You're welcome. Yeah, it's gonna happen a lot. There's a lot that I probably don't know. Well, we're gonna find out. Thank you for your time, man. No, thank you. I appreciate it. I really appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:03:08 And thank you for all your beautiful work over the years. It's been nice to witness and to consume as just a regular person in the world. Oh, man. Thank you. You're very sincere. It's very nice and refreshing and also slightly uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Yeah, sorry. No, don't. I know you're married, so I'll keep it just as sincere. We won't get physically sincere because that can be, it's outlawed in some territories. But no, thank you for your time, man. And yeah, thank you for all the cool work and helping us think and stuff like that just as viewers. Yeah, it's funny how sometimes life or God or whatever you use is like a person,

Starting point is 00:03:46 is like an instrument, you know? And yeah, you just have such a great way of like, yeah, just being able to do something that we can't, so many people can't do, but then it helps us, the rest of us reflect on how we do things and live. So, does it make any sense even? It's very nice. I mean, I don't know, all I'm hearing is, um, all I want to say is like no everyone can do it

Starting point is 00:04:07 I don't have anything special. I don't do anything special. Well, you're lucky guy then you've been fortunate Yeah, I've been very fortunate. I've worked with great great people um Would you do this summer did anything fun? I Feel like I was getting serious for a second. No, no, no, I was, no, I wasn't getting serious. What did I do? When does the summer start? I guess the summer starts in, I would say mid,

Starting point is 00:04:33 I would say June 1st. June, okay. No, nothing fun. I just have this movie coming out, so we started, I think somewhere like the 10th or something like that, started press. So, Disimpress in LA, and then flew to London, it's a press, so that's it.

Starting point is 00:04:52 Nothing terribly exciting. But we're not like those kind of, we're not like, you know, like, go vacation people. That's not your life? No. Oh. Yeah, you always, I think when you picture like, actors, you always picture them in like a little bit of like kind of like a Rapunzel castle

Starting point is 00:05:09 or like somebody's having shrimp, you know? Like that kind of thing. I think that's like a romanticizing of the people. Right, yeah. I mean, maybe I should. Yeah. I mean, maybe that's what's missing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:23 But no, it's not, I mean, I have. Yeah. But it's what's missing. But no, it's not, I mean I have, but it's not a regular thing. It's definitely not like, oh, here's summertime, let's do that summer experience. But yeah, I have that fantasy sometimes. Sometimes I see myself in slow motion jumping off a pier into a lake and shit, but I haven't done it yet.

Starting point is 00:05:43 Oh, okay, OK. So if you're not even living out the fantasies you're supposed to be doing, then what the hell am I freaking sitting over here parading them around? I know. What are you doing? What do you do with your summer? That's a great question.

Starting point is 00:05:56 It was your question. Thanks. Oh, thanks, dude. Oh, this is a real pickleball game here. I like it. No, no. No, no, it's good. Oh, this is a real pickleball game here. I like it. No, no, no, it's good. I just didn't want credit for something.

Starting point is 00:06:10 It wasn't my question. So I just felt like I had to acknowledge that. No, well said. Yeah, that's a great question. I think, yeah, I didn't do that much. I just kind of like worked, I guess. And oh, I did get to see my niece graduated from high school. So that was really cool. Just to watch somebody go through that moment

Starting point is 00:06:34 where they're kind of like, you know, where the training wheels kind of come off of life a little bit. You know? So I thought that was pretty neat. And I watched Eddington the other day. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really yeah. Yeah. Really cool.

Starting point is 00:06:46 Cool. I never graduated. You didn't graduate high school? No. To be honest, I'm not sure I even made it to high school. OK. That's fair. Oh, damn.

Starting point is 00:06:56 That explains things so much better than I think watching you. You're like, oh, this guy didn't even went to high school. Right. Yeah, I want you to have all the information. Like, I'm an open book, and I just want you to really understand what you're dealing with here as we move forward, OK?

Starting point is 00:07:13 Well, let's talk about Eddington first, because it was awesome. And it was just like, one of the neat things that I thought, and this is just me being kind of judgmental just so we can frame this for the conversation, is you want some water? Let's think about it. I was deciding in my head, I was going, how thirsty are you, how much plastic do you want, what are we going to do here?

Starting point is 00:07:36 Yeah. That's the way, that's what you saw. So I was like, I looked at the bottle, I said, it looks good, I need the water, but it's got a lot of plastic in there. And I was trying to decide, no, no, that just feels like, then I just feel like I'm. No, I think you should, let's get in it.

Starting point is 00:07:53 Look, I agree. I think everybody's about to try to stop drinking out of plastic. Right, but this is special water. Oh, it's artesian? That's nice. It's nice. Yeah, yeah, it's artesian? That's nice. It's nice. Yeah, it's nice.

Starting point is 00:08:09 Oh, that came down on a Sherpa's back or something. That was definitely... So now this, that counteracts the plastic, I think. Yeah, I think everybody's worried about microplastics and everything. Recent studies have revealed that glass bottles now contain significantly more Microplastics than plastic bottles. Thank you so much. I did not know that I was gonna get an education here. Thank you. So crazy. I like it Speaking of so crazy man. Let's talk about adding to nude. It was so intense. The stakes kept rising like

Starting point is 00:08:41 Because you have like this it's kind of like a time capsule moment This is what I felt like to me. kind of like a time capsule moment this is what I felt like to me it felt like this time capsule moment from very recently where you have the COVID mandates you have the BLM movement going on you have a change in the overlords of media so now like information is coming out of everywhere right so there's a lot of like new but also errant information in the world. You have all of these things happening at the same time. Then you have this sheriff, Joe Cross, who's kind of like an authority figure, right? You know, that's who you look to when there's something going on. But

Starting point is 00:09:21 also at the same time everyone's challenging authority. So it just, and then he starts to lose authority over himself. So there's like, there's so much going on. My question, I'm gonna get to it too. When there's so much going on like that, as an actor, are you thinking like in each scene, are you thinking I have to embody all of these like little tributaries or at once or do you take that like scene by scene

Starting point is 00:09:49 or moment by moment? What's that like? Cause I mean, it got so intense as a viewer, you're like, I don't even know if I can watch this much less trying to be the guy who's, you know, spreading the jam, you know? I think it probably, I think it changes. I think there are days where you're probably hyper aware

Starting point is 00:10:14 of the arc and you're kind of like following this trail that you're creating. And there's other days where that gets in the way and you just go like, shut the fuck up and just listen to what this other person's saying right in front of you and just react to that. We're not, in our own lives, we're not always aware of our arc, right?

Starting point is 00:10:36 So I think it's like you're just trying to balance it out and sometimes you can be so in the moment that you do, you forget that it's like you just came, we're shooting the scene in six weeks, you forget that it's like, you just came, you know, we're shooting the scene in six weeks, but you just have come from whatever. It's a, you know, intense emotional situation and now you're coming to this scene. You got to, we have to carry that over. So I think that it changes us, like something that is just like alive and moving and changing.

Starting point is 00:11:10 And of course, you have like a partner, which is the director, and in this case, the writer-director Ari Aster, who just like knows the script obviously inside and out, and the characters, and we had been working, going through the script, you know, for a year prior to shooting, where we'd get together, we were actually in New York primarily,

Starting point is 00:11:31 and just read through the script and talk about things. So you're kind of going through and you're developing, you're developing the character and you're following this kind of plan that you have sometimes in your head, some things you've discussed, some things you're just spontaneously coming up with. And then you just hope for the best.

Starting point is 00:11:57 You just go, at some point you go, well, because here's the thing, this is the crazy thing about it. You'll have this fucking plan that you're like, I'm fucking clever, I figured this shit out. It goes from this scene, then I go, do that and that scene, I'm doing that and that scene. You have this brilliant fucking plan,

Starting point is 00:12:14 and you're like, I'm kind of like a genius. And then in editing, they'll pull two of those scenes out, take them out, or put them somewhere else. And then it's much better. And you're like, I'm not a genius, I don't fucking know anything. Like if this shit works, it's because the fucking director is making this work.

Starting point is 00:12:37 You know, so like that's the, it's like something very humbling about that process, right? And you have to do the work And you have to do the work. You have to do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life, and then there's moments that aren't even in the script and on screen that you're trying to, I don't know, think about and feel and kind of like take on

Starting point is 00:13:01 as your experience. But you don't really know what's going to end up in the movie. So yeah, it's a pretty cool experience. It's kind of like life. Yeah. Like you plan all this shit. You plan your day and your life and your year

Starting point is 00:13:20 and then shit happens, it changes, things get moved around and sometimes they're characteristically just get like, you're taken out. Yeah and sometimes you have a plan, like you're gonna show up to like a something and everything's gonna be perfect, you're gonna have flowers for this and you're gonna have the best thing to say

Starting point is 00:13:36 and then next thing you know you're running late or you get there, your plane gets delayed and now you show up and you're getting there as everybody's leaving and you're the last person and you brought the 30th thing of flowers and everything's different. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, oh.

Starting point is 00:13:51 Yeah. Can you tell at your, with your level of experience, can you tell when you stuck the landing on a scene? Like, can you like, is there a moment when that thing cuts and you just like, can be like, that was pretty good? Like, I serviced it well. I've had that feeling before and it always turned out to be terrible

Starting point is 00:14:11 and I was wrong. Like anytime, my experience is that anytime I'm like, fuck yeah, okay, got it. It's terrible. And the times where I'm like, I don't know if I even landed, I'm not sure what happened. That's usually when things,

Starting point is 00:14:34 when I look back at it and I go like, oh, I think that was good. That's just my experience. I don't know what other actors are like, but yeah, I guess maybe, because I don't know, I don't know if other actors are like, but yeah, I guess maybe, because I don't know, I don't know if the things that I like are like, capturing something that feels like intangible

Starting point is 00:14:59 and hard to define, and like when you kind of like nail it, I don't really like that kind of acting or maybe I'm not good at it. Like I, you know. Yeah, maybe there's a sense of bravado that comes with that that's not as true to life, you know? Cause it's very rare in life,

Starting point is 00:15:17 maybe you just feel like you kind of nail it probably. Maybe, I mean, I don't know. I guess there's some people that walk around the world like nailed it. I know, Hulk Hogan. Who else? Yeah. Who else is somebody that really freaking nailed it?

Starting point is 00:15:39 Oh, Nicolas Cage in Family Man, have you seen that movie? Uh-uh. God. We got to sit together on a plane one time. Ha ha ha. You know what was interesting about, and thanks for talking about this with me, man, because it's just cool to get to like,

Starting point is 00:15:55 like it's rare you get to look at a piece of art and you get to talk to the paint, you know? The interesting thing about Joe Cross, the character that you played, is that there were moments I'm like, am I cheering for this guy? I just felt, I was like, how do I feel? Because he's who you're kind of going through the film with, through Eddington with.

Starting point is 00:16:18 I'm like, how do, do I feel for him? Do I feel against him? The whole time I just knew I just felt. He made me feel, right? Are you thinking about that as you're going through it, like how you're trying to make us feel, or that's not something that an actor is doing? So something that Ari and I talked about,

Starting point is 00:16:38 something that was very important to me from the beginning, was that to me from the beginning was that, that Joe challenges the audience's preconceived idea of what a conservative small town sheriff is. And I didn't know how, I didn't really know how or what that really meant, what that really looked like. And I think at some point,

Starting point is 00:17:10 I just wanted to care about him. I just wanted to take politics or philosophy or anything like that out of the picture and just go like, what's the man? And I think that I really, I think that we found that through his relationship with his wife. I think that's really where he's like most, like his power or authority is like threatened

Starting point is 00:17:43 or non-existent. And so that, it becomes the catalyst for his kind of desire for more authority and power. It's one of the things, as you said, there's several things kind of happening. But then, once you start working, I think maybe you're thinking about that less, it's less becomes about, it's almost like you, you start the process almost like an audience member

Starting point is 00:18:13 yourself because you're kind of outside this thing looking in, you're reading the script and he's kind of like, it feels like it's like this character over there, you know what I mean? And you're trying to get to it or bring it to you or whatever that process is, I don't fucking know. And so you're starting like that and you're kind of going like, oh, how do I feel standing back here when this guy does this?

Starting point is 00:18:38 And like, if he said that line in this way, how would that make me feel? And then somehow throughout this process, you hopefully start coming together and kind of merging to some point where it's not me standing outside of the character saying, not in some bullshit like I'm the character way, but just like you're just hopefully experiencing something

Starting point is 00:19:07 versus telling an audience what they should feel. And I think ultimately the director's probably most responsible, is totally responsible for telling the audience how they should feel. So I think it's part of me is like just to take on the experience and be honest in that moment. So you have to really trust that director then, huh?

Starting point is 00:19:32 Oh yeah, fuck yeah. Fuck. Ari's outside, I think he is not one of you mentioned in here, he's trying to edit from outside, he just bleeped his own name out. That's fascinating. Totally, totally. Wow, but that just shows you how locked in he is

Starting point is 00:19:45 to being on the ones and twos. A lot of times with acting, the actors get blamed for when things go bad, right? I feel like as a viewer, you're like, oh shit, you know? Right. Like Rodney Dangerfield sucked in that, you know, or whatever. Well yeah, it's dead.

Starting point is 00:20:01 But it's really the director. The director doesn't take as much heat, I don't feel like. Well, so the actor is the one that you're looking at. So like, if you're like hating a movie and you're just looking at somebody's face, you're just going to blame them, right? But conversely, like, if you're also like, this rules, this is the best time, they get the credit, right?

Starting point is 00:20:25 So like actors oftentimes, I think more often than not, the actors are getting credit and the director's like, I fucking made all of this work. You fucking ungrateful shits. It must be like very frustrating to be a director. Like a parent almost, or the child, you're like, this fucking thing looks handsome because I chased that lady down the street

Starting point is 00:20:49 and he's just wandering around here with his good looks, fucking hiding important shit in the backyard because we bought him a shovel for his birthday. Exactly, yeah. And I mean, you're talking about, you're having multiple takes to choose from, right? And so, director's going through, and ultimately with the editor selecting this take,

Starting point is 00:21:12 sometimes they're pulling the audio from another take they're putting in there. Just the, just like what lens is used and how it's lit and the angle and whether you cut to a wide shot or you're close, like all of those things, it just happens. Like even for me, I just watch a movie also.

Starting point is 00:21:30 I'm not aware of that all the time. Yeah, it's a good point. It's not like you're a wizard watching it or something. I'm definitely not a wizard watching it. Yeah. Yeah. So I imagine it's very frustrating for them. And I think anyone that's in the business knows this. I imagine it's very frustrating for them.

Starting point is 00:21:49 And I think anyone that's in the business knows this. So when the movie doesn't work, even if the general public is like, fucking so and so sucks, the director probably knows that they really mean them. So they carry that. I think it's probably, I imagine it's the hardest job. Being a director? I mean, for making movies, the hardest job.

Starting point is 00:22:16 You haven't directed, did you ever think about it sometimes? Are there moments where you're almost there? I don't know that I like to delegate and I'm really indecisive. Oh, yeah. And it's like particularly under pressure and it feels like there's a lot, you're constantly under pressure, I think,

Starting point is 00:22:40 as a director, right? So, but I don't know, I think what's appealing about it, the idea is the collaboration with all of the heads of the different departments. Is it after you're collaborating with costume and hair and makeup and props and stuff stuff and then of course the director. But like the director's just like everybody and that sounds nice and appealing.

Starting point is 00:23:14 I don't know, it might be a pain. Like oftentimes, you know, they're like, I'll call you back but I have to choose which forks we're using for the dinner scene. Right. You're like, which fucking forks? Yeah. Like, there's five forks to choose from,

Starting point is 00:23:31 I gotta choose which one we're using. Yeah. Like, that kinda sucks. Oh yeah, and it sucks if you're watching a movie and you see a fork that fucking is out of place too. You're like, these people. This isn't the Titanic. You blame the actor.

Starting point is 00:23:46 Oh, honestly. Because it's the actor's face, and you're just like, I fucking hate this movie. Oh, you're like, Dunkirk sucks. You see the silverware in that thing? You know, that's how you feel sometimes. You know what was interesting to me, and some of these questions are novice

Starting point is 00:24:03 about acting and directing, thank you for entertaining them. One thing that was interesting to me and some of these questions are novice about acting and directing thank you for entertaining them. One thing that was interesting to me about Joe Cross about your character well for one he was so imperfect right and yeah when you saw him at night and he was like feeling like those feelings with when he come home from his day and he finally got to deal with what he really wanted to deal with which which was love, right? That just felt like so human to me. And he was his villain and his hero, right? He was the creator of his possibility and his pain at the same time.

Starting point is 00:24:40 And it was just so like, it was, fuck, it was just a lot to watch sometimes. Does that just feel like regular life? Like, could you relate to him as a human? Does that make any sense, that question? Yeah, it does. First of all, happy to talk about whatever. I also don't, I just realized,

Starting point is 00:25:01 I was just talking about movies and directing. I don't fucking know anything. I had no idea what a director does. So I just like, I don't want you to go like, oh, now I understand what directing is. Because I guarantee you directors are like, this guy doesn't know shit. So I just want to clear that up.

Starting point is 00:25:22 Yeah, yeah. Dude, he's got some ideas. I'll tell to clear that up. Yeah, yeah, dude. He's got some ideas. I'll tell you that about him. Well, you didn't walk in here like you definitely had brought the weather with you. You certainly came in here like a victim of the storm or just like a regular guy who just gotten, you know, you can't. Anyway, go on, sir. No, no, no, no. Let me educate you here, Theo.

Starting point is 00:25:46 Let me teach you about filmmaking. All right, folks, something special's about to happen over in the Big Easy. You know what I'm talking about? UFC 318 is coming to New Orleans and it is absolutely stacked. Draft King's sports book, the official sports betting partner of the UFC, has all the action you need.

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Starting point is 00:27:49 I don't know if we were boating or if we floated away on something. Me and my buddy got stuck out in the sun. And gosh, when we got back to shore, dude, I just, I drank everything. I drank every, I was drinking at a dang, hose is faucet. I'll drink out of somebody's mouth if they left it open for 30 seconds because I wanted to stay hydrated But things are different now

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Starting point is 00:28:45 Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code Theo at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code THEO at liquidiv.com. I'm sorry, I don't remember what we were talking about. Yeah, I just felt like he was the cause of his own possibility and his own pain constantly. And it just, it made me think so much about life,

Starting point is 00:29:09 but it was so real to see him that way. Could you relate to that in your own life? Or? Yeah, of course. Yeah, just normal, huh? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think all the characters in this, I felt when I read the script, I was like, oh, I kind of like, I think all the characters in this, I felt when I read the script, I was like, oh, I kind of like, I recognize myself

Starting point is 00:29:28 in all of these characters, actually. And sometimes it's like, you know, it's an embarrassing admission. And then, you know, there's just things, particularly that time. And I think in some ways, yeah, maybe we're always, we're always, maybe we're always responsible for how we respond to what happens in the world, right?

Starting point is 00:30:01 So, not like so much of like just what happens in life you, right? So we're not like, so much of like just what happens in life you don't have any control over. But how we respond to that, we have control over. And I know I constantly fail in my response, or at least don't respond in the best way in the moment. Right? I respond like emotionally. And so I definitely identified with that.

Starting point is 00:30:30 And that's Joe. I mean, he kind of like just keeps making mistakes. And he's so desperate to to have some control. He's just like, you know that feeling when you're like, I just need things to just stop for a fucking second so I can breathe, and then your desire to make things stop just make things ramp up more and more, and then you just like trip and you fall down the stairs. It's just like, it's like that.

Starting point is 00:31:10 Yeah, that escalation. Oh, I kept imagining the whole time, I'm like, oh my God, this guy is fucking just like, has put too much cheese on his burger, dude. This guy is just, and then I kept imagining the whole time he has to take a pee and he can't even get to that. He's just dealing with like activists and people throwing things through wind and then he gets home and he sleeps in his glasses. Like he literally gets up and

Starting point is 00:31:32 just has to like bow and he's like, suddenly it's all in focus again. And his brain is barely had time to rest. And I'm like, God, somebody fucking just put a sniper, shoot a Xanax into this dude or something. Somebody fucking give him a damn Percocet suppository or something, this guy needs some relief, you know? And then it also was like, God, especially during that time, like a lot of mania came along with a lot of those different things that were happening in the world.

Starting point is 00:32:01 And there's still a lot of mania remnants from that. And I was like, God, everybody needed some relief. You know? It feels like that as a society sometimes, we need some relief sometimes. But we have everything we need, it feels like. So it's kind of a weird juxtaposition to be in. Yeah, so what's the plan?

Starting point is 00:32:18 Yeah, what is the plan? I don't know. I don't know, it just feels like we're just doing the opposite of a hug right now. That's right, that's right. And did you feel when you watched it, maybe like you got to the, like you were like, this will be a reminder, this will like help influence

Starting point is 00:32:36 people in a better way, this could be like a seed of like where we've been and where we can grow from. I don't know, I mean, I don't know. I don't know, like movies are I don't know. I don't know, like, movies are surprising, those things that connect with people and actually influence culture. And sometimes they don't, I don't really know what it is.

Starting point is 00:32:59 That's crazy to ask you. No, no, no, I think it's a fair question. I think in some ways, I think all I can do is think about myself versus the effect that it has on me. And in some ways, there was, I felt like I had permission to laugh at myself, like a way to kind of evaluate some of that like mania as you say, we're like fucking crazy, like the summer of 2020

Starting point is 00:33:29 it was crazy. And people were, I love that you said it's the opposite of a hug and it really was, like everyone was so kind of fractured and fragmented and just all isolated in our own worlds, like quite literally physically isolated. And then everyone was just so online and kind of fed their own. An algorithm.

Starting point is 00:33:51 Fucking, yes, that just further kind of propelled them into their own lanes. It's like even people in the same houses and their own place. And there was just like this, I remember everything felt so aggressive. Like even there were like signs that were supposed to be like,

Starting point is 00:34:14 we trust science and we love all people. But some of it even not felt like confrontational. Right. It was like there's, it's like, there's, there's, it's like, it didn't, it felt like no matter what anyone said, everyone was like, this is my position, and my position is fucking right, and you can go fuck yourself. Like, you know, it's just like, people went fucking nuts.

Starting point is 00:34:39 Well, we, not people, not, we did. Yeah, all of us. No, it doesn't seem like you're calling anybody out. It feels like we're all inclusive. I agree. It's amazing what a time, it was like the most recent time capsule that was the most insane.

Starting point is 00:34:51 Like usually they're like, we found a can of ham from 1930, you know? And we're gonna invite everybody over and the girls will sing and then we'll open it, you know? But this was like, Jesus Christ, we just found the most insane time capsule. And we, the mud is still wet. Yes.

Starting point is 00:35:07 Yeah. But then it's like, it was a reminder, have we even recovered from all of that? Like what happens to the human being as we go through all that? And then you have all this pent up anger and confusion and everything. I think we wanted to forget or like pretending to forget

Starting point is 00:35:23 I think we wanted to forget or like pretending to forget because yeah, it was ugly and it was ugly. But it was also really painful. And I think a lot of people were like fucking scared. But then also the character of the mother, I didn't even think about that, of Joe Cross's mother. Because- Mother-in-law. Mother-in-law. Oh, that was his mother-in-law.

Starting point is 00:35:50 Of the mother-in-law because then you, you're like, Did it just change everything now for you to know that it's not his mother? No, it made it a little bit more crazier. I'm like, so you're telling me he teamed up with her mom and now they're the one, it's just like, but then that is something a lot of people have in their life.

Starting point is 00:36:10 Like, oh, well I talked to my girlfriend's mom and now we're team, or the, you know, oh shit, man. That guy was screwed, dude. Yes. Jack Frost was fucking screwed. Yeah, but he screwed himself. Yeah, he was the holder of his possibility and his pain at the same time, you know? It was pretty crazy.

Starting point is 00:36:35 Yeah, what was meeting Ari Aster like? I watched some interviews with him. He seemed like a charming guy. Yes. I met one of his partners, Lars Knudsen. Yeah. Dude, I had some video calls with him a few years ago. Really? I was looking it up.

Starting point is 00:36:53 But why? We were just talking about something, maybe thinking about an idea. I had an idea about a movie. And David Spade and I just wrote a movie and made a movie. We paid for it ourselves that we made, right? So it's fucking very unique. It's done? It's done, we're editing it now.

Starting point is 00:37:10 Right, are you in it? I'm in it, I'm like this is his sidekick. He's like the main guy. Wait a minute, so you know all about making movies and then you were just plain dumb asking me questions, setting me up, setting me up to be like, well, let me tell you something, Theo. Not at all, dude.

Starting point is 00:37:27 Here's how it's done. No, dude. No, we fucking, we have no idea what we have, dude. We may have a damn visual diorama that a couple of kids put together for their kindergarten class. You know, I was playing a busboy, you know, not Commodus, you know, so I think it's definitely,

Starting point is 00:37:43 this is way different, I think. It's a different, is that the right way to say it, Commodus? I don't fucking know. Anyway, no, I didn't know anything. I mean, I'm just learning little things. But I mean, I get to talk to somebody who's been, you know, who has had a plethora of experience. So you talked to Lars.

Starting point is 00:38:01 Lars is great. Lars is a producing partner of Ari. Yeah, and I just realized that yesterday when I was looking it up, I is great, Lars is a producing partner of Ari. Yeah, and I just realized that yesterday when I was looking it up I was like, oh wow, I'd spoken with this guy before. When I met Ari, we didn't meet, we spoke on the phone and it was the summer of 2020 is when we first spoke. And he had this film that he wanted to make called Bo's Afraid that he wanted to talk to me about.

Starting point is 00:38:34 And so I just, I spoke with him on the phone. And I mean, the first time that I met him, this is so crazy, this is so COVID, was when I got to Montreal to shoot that movie. And it's a while because it just was like normal. We just accepted it, but that's very strange, right? To not meet the director,

Starting point is 00:38:57 for like the actor and the director, not like be in a room together until they're two weeks off from shooting. It seems risque. Yeah. It seems risque. It's fucking crazy. Yeah. It seems risque to me to do something like that. It's like you could interview your cell mate or whatever, but you're like, now just winging in there.

Starting point is 00:39:14 You could have a little small Q&A with your celly. So was there something that inspired you or led you to think? Because I think what's interesting also in the career of an actor is you start to realize, well, I only have so many times that I get to do this, and times that I can afford to be away from family and friends and just take on such energy in my life. And so I'm sure it starts to become a little bit more

Starting point is 00:39:39 poignant, like the choices that you do make. So was there something about him or his processes that made you think this is the right choice? Or how do you land on a choice like that? You never know if it's the right choice or what it is, right? You're just going, I mean, honestly, I just liked him. We started talking and the way that he talked about the film and the way that he talked about the character,

Starting point is 00:40:04 I knew that it was personal and I could tell that it meant so much to him that he loved making movies and it meant so much to him and that he, like I think I just got a sense that he was tireless. And like, you know, the director really has to be obsessed. Because they do have to do so much. Which fork am I fucking choosing, right? Do you want them to actually care about that shit?

Starting point is 00:40:42 Or else you're going to be watching the thing, Dunkirk, and you're pissed off. You know, they have plastic silverware? Right, right. In fucking 1812. And I'm sure that wasn't the right year for Dunkirk either, so we're all bad. No, no, that sounds good.

Starting point is 00:41:03 So I think that that's maybe what, right away I was like, okay, well this, he loves making movies. And I know that just from talking to him on the phone. And he's funny. I mean, I think that's the biggest thing. Sometimes you're just like, do I want to hang out with this fucking dude? I'm sure. Sometimes you're just like, do I want to hang out with this fucking dude?

Starting point is 00:41:23 I'm sure. That's right. And it's like, because you go through a whole range of emotions when you make a movie. I mean, yeah, it's a movie and you're safe, but in the moment, your body doesn't know that it's not real.

Starting point is 00:41:40 You know what I mean? It's just some shit that you're doing, right? And so it can, you know, things can get like, there can be a lot of emotion or a lot of energy. And, and, and yeah, having somebody that you really like feels important. And they paid me so much money. Oh God.

Starting point is 00:42:02 Nothing. Give me some, give me a little. Dude, side quest really quick. So my friend Josh used to live like, I think somewhere like in E, kind of like over by East LA. And I've known who you were like a decent amount of my life because most of the world knows your name. But he said that you lived in his area.

Starting point is 00:42:22 And I was like, well, what if I opened up a shoe store called These Boots Are Made for Joaquin, right? I was like, just to get to meet you. That would be the goal. The only goal of the whole store was to get to meet you. And anyway, that was just like something funny that we thought of one day. But if you saw that store,

Starting point is 00:42:38 say if you'd driven by a couple of times, like do you think you ever would have stopped in there? Absolutely, yeah. And I would have just like cleaned the place out. For sure. Where was this? You just come in with a pistol, you're like, you're all mine!

Starting point is 00:42:52 Oh, that's not what I meant by clean the place out. I was going to do it legally. Oh, support the business? Yeah. Thank you, dude. Yeah. Does clean the place out mean like I'm here to fuck shit up? I think the, yeah, yeah. I think that terms have changed every time.

Starting point is 00:43:06 Oh, I didn't. I didn't mean it that way. I apologize. See, this is these are the these are the mistakes you can make. But thanks for saying you would have stopped by, dude. That's yeah. No, it's it's a great. How could I not? It's a great store. Maybe you should still put it together. I'll tell you this one day if I make enough money and I can open up a small place that I could afford to do it on the side, as a thank you to you

Starting point is 00:43:31 for coming on the podcast and talking with me, I'll open up a small one near you. And I'll surprise you. I feel like something like that would be pretty special. When it comes to acting, has your approach to acting changed over the years? Like, as you notice your own evolution with it? And if you get tired of talking about acting, we can talk about something else. Has my approach changed? I don't... Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I don't think so.

Starting point is 00:44:07 You know, you're definitely more self-aware. It's just like. You are? Yeah, it's just like the nature of doing something that's like visible and you're out there for whatever, 30 fucking plus years or whatever. Maybe more than that, maybe 42. But are you, wow, that's a long time.

Starting point is 00:44:34 But self-aware in the sense where you're like, you know all your, like, do you start to know all the palette you have as an actor or does that continue to evolve or does some of it get lessened because you're getting older and you can't, you know what I'm saying, you couldn't do the same thing maybe you could as a 27 year old actor or 21 or 18 year old.

Starting point is 00:45:00 Like does that palette grow or does it dissipate kind of? I don't know, maybe both things and maybe sometimes it's maybe just gets refined, maybe just, you know, it's similar. It's just like a richer color or less rich, I don't know what it is. Maybe that's what happens. a richer color or less rich, I don't know what it is. Maybe that's what happens. Hopefully you have a director that also is familiar with your work and can challenge you

Starting point is 00:45:34 if you're not challenging yourself. But I think, I don't know, but I imagine, when you're, it's like, I don't know, but I imagine, you know, when you're, you know, it's like a 20 year old basketball player is coming out and you know, he's just fucking, just going for it, trying to make a name, right? He's just doing the thing. And at some point he becomes known, you know, he's suddenly like one of the guys on the team.

Starting point is 00:46:02 It's a different kind of pressure of like taking that shot. Right? Because it's like, when you're team, it's a different kind of pressure of taking that shot, right? Because it's like, when you're young, it's like, oh, it's scary, because it's like, oh, if I fucking miss, maybe I don't get another opportunity. But then when you're older and established, it's like, if I miss, there's going to be a lot of press about what I miss. And people are going to be like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:46:23 pay way too much money to fucking miss that shot. Yeah, that dude should not be missing at this point. Like, get the fuck out. Dude, he wasn't even wearing sneakers. Like, what kind of guy do we have here? So this is, you know what I mean? So I think that's what I mean by being self-aware. Like, at some point, you feel pressure in a different way.

Starting point is 00:46:43 Like, I think it's always, no matter what, it's always like you always feel the pressure. But yeah, I think when you're 20 years old, it's just different and nobody's really looking at you. You don't feel pressure when you walk on set. Right, so that kind of goes away, but there's a different pressure of like, it's really

Starting point is 00:47:06 these overalls are hanging off my shoulders here. Yeah. I don't understand that. Yeah. I don't either actually. I was trying to be like a weight of the world on the shoulders. I was thinking of something that goes on shoulders and then overalls came out. I'm like, no, no, no, it was good. You should stick with it. It does. It sounds great. I just felt stupid. I was like, oh, this is a really cool saying. I don't know it. Are there moments when you're acting where because there's little moments whenever I do stand up where I feel like people that like relative or something

Starting point is 00:47:40 to be a mom where I feel like my brother, my sister, like there's sometimes where I turn a certain way and it almost feels like my mom Do you ever feel like you channel like certain parts of you like people come out of you in certain moments? I think I notice it more as I get older too. Does it make any sense to you? Sure, I never turned towards your kids and say something you're like I am that was just my dad like that wasn't even me doing that yeah, I I I am, that was just my dad. Like that wasn't even me doing that. Yeah. I mean, I definitely in my life have a lot of my dad in me. Really?

Starting point is 00:48:11 Were you surprised that you got so much of it? I was. And I think I was like the last to know. But it was like, yeah, like that, like that. And then like, it's something I was like, they're saying like, dad, like that, like that. And then like, sometimes I was like, I think they're saying like, dad, like those are not good qualities. And so.

Starting point is 00:48:30 Like sleeping in his car, dad. Like dad. Right. And so I then became aware of it. But no, I think my dad actually, I was aware from fairly young that I think he's probably the greatest influence, or I was influenced by his life in my work. I don't know if this is making sense.

Starting point is 00:49:02 I think I modeled so many characters that I've played after him. He's dead, he's been dead for a while, so I can talk shit about him. Yeah, so he can't disagree with you. Yeah, so what are you gonna say? And if he is gonna do? I just like, because I was like,

Starting point is 00:49:22 I don't want to say your dad died, it's fucked up, make a joke about it. And then go, that's even worse. No, we weren't sure if he died until you said it, I just like, cause I was like, I don't think your dad does fucked up. Make a joke about it and then go, that's even worse. So no, we weren't sure if he died until you said it. I'll be honest with you. Don't don't look it up because you might not be done. We don't get the clicking clacking over there channeling right now. And it's turned into him. That would be crazy.

Starting point is 00:49:39 Um, yeah, wow. That's kind of interesting. Yeah. I think, you know what? Sometimes I think I'm like my mom and I never thought I would be. And I was always even like rebellious against my mother. And then I'm like, you gotta be. Sometimes I look in the mirror,

Starting point is 00:49:51 I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me, you know? But then at the same time, it's like, that was probably in my life, that was the connection that I wanted the most anyway. So it's interesting that that's what God gave me or that's how it, you know, that like, oh, oh It's like this is kind of what I always wanted the most and it's oddly That's part of the most of what I am, you know Yeah, just interesting how sometimes things like that work out. Um, was your dad a funny guy? He's very funny

Starting point is 00:50:19 I mean he was um, he was a ham Like oh he was a ham. Like he loved doing skits for us kids. Really? Yeah. That's cool of him. And like joking around, yeah. He's very, yeah, he was. And what would he do, like death of a salesman

Starting point is 00:50:40 or death of, I don't know what he did for a job, death of like a employee somewhere? Or he would just have fun moments? One of his favorites, which always made us laugh, was something called the fly skit, where he just was literally, he just was a guy reading a paper on a bench and a fly starts buzzing around and he like waves it away. Then he tries to like hit it with the newspaper,

Starting point is 00:51:12 you know, he like rolls it up and like hits it. And finally he goes in his bag and he takes out some bug spray and he goes to spray it just as it lands on his nose and he sprays himself in the face and then like gets all fucked up from the bug spray and falls over. And like when you're like six years old,

Starting point is 00:51:31 that's the most genius thing you've ever seen. Especially because we didn't have like TV and shit when I was young. So that was like high level entertainment. Oh yeah, your dad was the damn history channel when you were a kid back in the day, you know what I'm saying? Or they were, that's so funny to think about. I never thought of my parents were like,

Starting point is 00:51:50 the channels that we had, like, because we had some channels, but it wasn't like that. You know, it wasn't like you had every moment was accessed. So really people were looked at as a lot more entertainment. Like, let me go poke this bear and see what I can get them to do a little bit, you know? Oh, that's cool, dude. My dad, oh, it's so funny, dude.

Starting point is 00:52:08 My dad was very old when I was born. He was born in 1910 or whatever. And so he was like, everything was very like, my brother and I would go to, he ran a, the World's Fair was in New Orleans when I was growing up, and he ran a, I don't know if he ran, but somehow they let him have the keys to go in there in the morning, and he, it was like a souvenir shop

Starting point is 00:52:34 for the World's Fair, or postcards, stuff like that in the French Quarter. And he'd always pay this guy, this guy who was a clown, right? He'd be like, go get the kids a couple of wieners or Franks, you know, hot dogs. So we'd like, I just remember like one of my early memories is just being with my brother and this clown

Starting point is 00:52:53 that my dad had given a couple shackles to running us down the street to get us a couple of fucking hot dogs. And I was like, oh, it's gonna be a fucking interesting road. So how old were you when he moved on? When he moved on, I was 16. And it was weird because I was like embarrassed to my dad because he was older, so I didn't want

Starting point is 00:53:12 to introduce him to people. I always had like this weird relationship. But then I think as a kid, it was fascinating to watch this older guy that you love so much, but you're also trying to keep hidden. You know? So how, when you were 16, I'm gonna fail at math. No worries.

Starting point is 00:53:33 I'm trying to figure out, I'm trying to figure out if that's how my son is gonna think of me. Oh, damn, dude. Because I was 45 when he was born. Oh, you'll still be fine. Huh? I think you're gonna be okay. It's gonna be, do not get a cane early, though. If you get a cane early, he was born. You'll still be fine. Huh? I think you're going to be okay.

Starting point is 00:53:45 It's going to be, do not get a cane early though. If you get a cane early, he'll know. If you get, I thought about this. I was just thinking about yesterday because I got to knock somebody up in the next two years because I need a family. But if you get a cane early, he's going to know. Right.

Starting point is 00:53:59 So that's, so I basically, when I, when I had my first son, I was your age, and it is something that I think about constantly. Yeah. Like, and I, cause I just want to be able to be a fun dad and not be this. So did your dad die suddenly? Can I ask, is that all right if I ask you?

Starting point is 00:54:21 Yeah, it's okay man. Yeah, he got cancer, and I didn't even know about cancer that much, and he died pretty quick. It was pretty sad, because suddenly he got like, yeah, it was just kind of sad. I mean, it's all sad,

Starting point is 00:54:34 but then it was, you know, I don't know. Well, of course it was sad. One might think we're fucking, you know, everybody was like, getting the champagne out, but he was ridiculous. But my dad couldn't see, he would drive, he would take us somewhere, but he couldn't see the lights or anything.

Starting point is 00:54:49 So he'd be like, what'd it tell, is it red or green? And some of we'd get it wrong and he'd fucking just drive out of it. It was all bathroom. That sounds kinda cool. Yeah, I think he would've dug it. I gotta say it's gonna be good. Dang it.

Starting point is 00:55:01 Well. You would've dug it. Did your dad have cancer or no? Yeah, he did. He did? He did, yeah. And here's something else that's fucked up. My sister's lost his ashes.

Starting point is 00:55:13 No, yeah. We just, every couple months, was it somebody will send out a text to the thread and be like, has anybody found dad's ashes? And it's, cause all you can do is fucking laugh because it's horrible. It's just horrible. It's almost really like his last performance.

Starting point is 00:55:37 I mean, that's such a fucking great. It's a great bit. You're right, it's his great bit. It's so fucking, that's, you're right. It's his best moment. Dad's as anybody found. I love that text too, you know? Just randomly, every once in a while, because it'll occur to one of us. I'll be like, yeah, which, where the fuck are dad's ashes?

Starting point is 00:55:59 He sent that out, and still don't know. Here's the thing, I mean, I'm blaming my sisters. Yeah. Might've been me. I don't know. The thing is, is that it's one of those real, like, you know, sometimes you have a vague memory of like, I know we were in here. Yeah. No idea. I have no idea. Like you ever walk in the kitchen, you're like, it's kind of like that thing. Like what was I in here to get? You know, where did I put those, you know?

Starting point is 00:56:28 Oh man, thanks for sharing that. That's funny, I'm glad we even got to laugh about your dad today and my dad, that's cool. I think spirits, I think that when you laugh about somebody from your life or something like that, I think they feel that on the other side. I think there's like a big connection there that we don't know about.

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Starting point is 00:59:12 getting serious about launching your own brand, it's never been easier to get started on Shopify.com slash t-h-e-o. That's it. Shopify.com slash Theo. Take your side hustle and see what you can do. Have you ever met someone and you were like, I could play that person? Like is that, cause that would be like kind of like, I feel like if I were an actor, that would be like my power. Like you would corner somebody in a room of a fucking party and be like, I could play you in a heartbeat. You know, does that happen with the good actors? I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've,

Starting point is 00:59:31 I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I of a fucking party and be like, I could play you in a heartbeat. You know? Does that happen with the good actors? I don't know, you have to ask good actors. I think that I...

Starting point is 00:59:57 That's what this is called this past weekend. Yeah. How'd you come up with that? Because I just started on a Monday. To be honest, that's good. We didn't have a real drawing board there. Mr. Phoenix. I'm trying to think.

Starting point is 01:00:17 I don't know that. I don't know that there's ever been a moment. I was like, I have to play that. I've been inspired by like, like I've stolen shit from like friends and people that I've met. But I've never, I don't think that I've ever like, like I'm going to play who exactly.

Starting point is 01:00:43 Oh yeah, you get to choose. You're the one who can do it. Yeah. But that's the interesting thing. Yeah. I just wonder if you had that ability. Does that start to get into some people? But then maybe that's like some ego in there too. You play the broken so well, man.

Starting point is 01:00:58 You really just have a, I mean, you are just like a harp that is missing some strings, you know? But it's really beautiful to watch a lot of times. Why do you think that you get attracted to those roles? It seems like you must in some ways. And Sardi just kind of like pigeonhole you in your abilities. I know you have a lot of abilities I definitely I don't know why I guess okay, so

Starting point is 01:01:45 My dad was he was he was a complicated dude and he, there was like a lot of like, I want to say dichotomy, but I'm not entirely sure if that's the right thing, but it is like. Conflict or something? Yeah, and he's really, it was complex, or something like very like sensitive and sweet and thoughtful about him. And he grew up in a pretty tough situation,

Starting point is 01:02:15 and was in juvie very young, and had this very splintered family background. And you know, it was like... So pretty affected. Yeah, like, you know, so you'd call like a shit kicker. And he was like, so, but he also was like, he also was like, like a fucking hippie and was like, you know, was, you know, vegan. And like, so, so I think like I was really, I think he was like so fascinating to me growing up

Starting point is 01:02:50 because I think I saw those things and then that existed inside the same person. Yeah, let's get fucked up and get a salad on. Oh, exactly. I mean, that's a crazy thing to even think. You know? And I'm sorry to say that, just like, dang it. No, it's great. It was great. It was perfect. And I needed that moment.

Starting point is 01:03:15 So I think like that was really, again, I think maybe I was, I'm not, you know, I don't know why, but I think I was attracted to those roles, maybe as a way of whatever. Connection or just something? Yeah, or just like. Familiarity? Or just curiosity, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:03:36 Like, he was kind of like the most interesting person to me and I probably wanted to like try and understand him more or something. I don't know, maybe or maybe not. I don't really know. But so I think maybe that's part of it. And then like, yeah, I just, I love a small of those people that whatever limited exposure I had to film

Starting point is 01:04:03 or television when I was young, I loved like fucking drama. I loved conflict. I mean I did, I loved when shit was like, you know, this seems, don't, it seems very bad. Whatever's about to happen seems very bad. Oh no, you are a fucked up person. I was fucked up. How could you have done that?

Starting point is 01:04:25 I think that was interesting to me, and I think I also wanted to try to, and I always was curious. I think I didn't believe that there was good people and bad people. So I was interested, okay, well, this is somebody that's made these mistakes or bad decisions. How could that happen?

Starting point is 01:04:48 What led to that? I think it's just a curiosity about that, maybe. And then some of it, honestly, straight up, some of it also is like, it's not like I walk in and it's like the full fucking salad bar and I can choose whatever. There's a full thing and then they come in, they're like, you can actually just from here to there,

Starting point is 01:05:07 you can have those four options. You go, but what about there? They go, no, no, you don't, that's not for you. So part of it is like getting where you fit in, right? Part of it is like I had a face that just oftentimes looked criminal from like very, from a very young age. I noticed that like when I went into the plugin store

Starting point is 01:05:26 with my friends, I was the one that was followed around by security, right? They were like, and I didn't understand why, but at some point I think I kind of realized, I was like, oh, okay, so I'm giving these parts and like, yeah, I'm the guy in the master, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, or playing Skeletor in the He-Man commercial, not He-Man. Oh, that's what you're saying.

Starting point is 01:05:52 You're like, oh, this is kind of interesting. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So part of it is like, that's just also the reality, right? And there's things where you're like, oh, but I can do that, I want to do that. And they're like, no, you can't. And in some ways, maybe they're right. There's also like a point where you're like, oh, but I can do that, I want to do that. And they're like, no, you can't. And in some ways, maybe they're right.

Starting point is 01:06:07 There's also like a point where you're like, okay, how do I achieve that thing that I'm chasing there in this thing? Maybe that's the better route for me. Maybe that's the more honest thing. I'm chasing an idea that I think that somebody maybe has of me as an actor and I want to dispel that. No, that's not what's important.

Starting point is 01:06:39 But maybe it's valuable to chase that quality, but through this character's experience. That's fascinating, dude. Like the Joker, yeah, like I could totally see exactly what you're talking about. Like, and I'll think a lot of times in life, we have this, we're chasing an idea of ourselves or a projection that we thought someone else had of us,

Starting point is 01:07:01 or even just the, the archetype. I can't even freaking remember that word, dude, from freaking science or whatever. The arc type of what we think something is, you know, like the high school quarterback or the prom queen, and for our whole life, we're like, instead of being like, well, why don't I just fucking put on this comfortable shoe that fits, or why don't I try to be the quarterback,

Starting point is 01:07:24 but he's in the fucking school play and he doesn't have a football, right? And he's a fucking lives in a dungeon or whatever. And he has a hunchback. Yeah, because it's probably good to like challenge yourself and challenge expectations, right? To not just go like, oh, I guess I'm just that and I'll just be that, right?

Starting point is 01:07:42 Like there was, I think I did have an ambition, but really my ambition was about like an experience. I felt like I don't want my experience to be limited. Like that's not fair that I don't want to just play this role in this way. Like that's, I want, my appetite was bigger than that. this role in this way. My appetite was bigger than that. It was bigger than I think what I was told. I remember when I was younger,

Starting point is 01:08:15 I remember doing this movie, and one of the other actors was talking to the director, and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if Joaquin did this kind of movie, kind of like so and so, and he mentioned like, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, Joaquin did, you know, this kind of movie, you know, kind of like so and so, and he mentioned this other actor that was like my peer, who was like the actor, right? And the director was like, yeah,

Starting point is 01:08:34 but I mean Joaquin is no so and so. And he was like, and the other actor was like, dude, that's so fucked up, I was saying, the director was like, oh no, no, I mean that in the best way, like you're a character actor. He's no Fred Armisen. Character actor is like kind of code for like,

Starting point is 01:08:54 you can't really, like you're never going to really get there, but you'll work. And that fucking pissed me off. But here's the thing, but it pissed me off because I was like, no, I have more, there's more that will come out of me. And I just, but I think I ultimately appreciate it

Starting point is 01:09:20 because it made me go like, well, how do I find that way? Like, how do I find more? And yeah, I'm not going to be able to get in this door. And like, yeah, I shouldn't play the quarterback. Like, it doesn't make sense. Like, if I walked out, then you're going like, well, unless it's like. Yeah, the defense is going to be on the field a lot. What's the? Yeah. If this guy's a fucking quarterback, the defense is going to be on the field a lot.

Starting point is 01:09:45 Yeah. This guy's a fucking quarterback. What's it going to be? Unless it's like some 80s school comedy, like kids comedy, where they're a disaster. Yeah. You know, maybe that version of it. Yeah, or unless they like siphon in a unique quarterback

Starting point is 01:10:00 from another realm kind of. Right, and his thing is, by the way, let's not give away too much because maybe this is something we should work on. But no, I think there was something else you said in there and I forgot what it was a second ago, but it was really profound about,

Starting point is 01:10:19 or as profound as people can be in a motel somewhere, but. It's a hotel? You're right, actually. Well, just because in case they're- No, you're right. You're right, actually, I don't want them being upset. This is a very famous hotel

Starting point is 01:10:34 where a lot of fucking important people have overdosed. Exactly, a lot of people die here. And that is true. We're at the Chelsea Hotel, and it is very unique and fun. This is a great place to be whenever you're in New York City, I think. You're tricking me now. I didn't set you up at all. No, I for real had paranoia and I was like, I don't want to be a person who's talking shit about them.

Starting point is 01:11:01 And but Motel Chelsea sounds dope to be honest but Motel Chelsea also, it kind of sounds dope to be honest. Motel Chelsea? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like. It sounds better than a Hotel Chelsea. Oh, it sounds like somebody my dad met.

Starting point is 01:11:16 You know what I'm saying? That's a problem too, dude. Sorry, so anyways. No, it's all fun, but I think you said exactly what you wanted to say there, and I think it's interesting, yeah. Because I think it pertains just even outside of acting, is how can we do more?

Starting point is 01:11:29 How can I find a way to apply myself to this thing? How do I adjust? What is a new way to do something? If I want to get to my goal, and if it's even going to be possible, is there another route, right? Like rerouting, when your app says that, it's kind of like that, which I think is

Starting point is 01:11:51 something that people do when they are, when they really have a goal that they want to try and attain, you know? I just think it's interesting. Yeah, it's like, of course, right? Resistance, right? It's like resistance is important, and you know, just's like, of course, right? Resistance, right? It's like resistance is important. And I was just reading like,

Starting point is 01:12:10 just reading about dinosaurs, my kid. And you're like, oh shit, motherfuckers were like, hold on, there's a very large dinosaur, it's got big teeth, it's nasty, it's mean. And I'm like, what do I do? I'm just, I'm a fucking vegetarian dinosaur, what do I do? And just like evolution is like,

Starting point is 01:12:30 oh you start growing spikes out of your back or fucking horns and shit. And it's just like, it's a reaction to the environment. Those motherfuckers, it took millions of years to like react, to change and to evolve. And so sometimes when you're like, oh yeah, the director was mean to me. He says all they mean.

Starting point is 01:12:49 Like, yeah, well, it's fucking nothing comparatively, right? So it's just, yeah, I think kind of meeting the challenge in some ways, like trying to get to a place of appreciating the resistance. And reacting to the resistance. I don't know what I'm saying about that. I'm sorry, I'm a poor fucking kid. No, because most of life is, but I think it's fascinating to think initiating the resistance and reacting to the resistance. I don't know what I'm saying about dinosaurs.

Starting point is 01:13:07 I think it's fascinating to think how bad ass a vegan or vegetarian a fucking brontosaurus was. Brontosaurus is big. That was the solution. It just got like bigger. Who is the biggest vegetarian dinosaur? Let's give them a little bit of shine here. And I'm sure Josh Brolin will get to play them in a movie.

Starting point is 01:13:29 But we won't. This is the, the brontosaurus dip dip. Oh, the dreadnoughtus. Look at that limousine. Have not read about him. How long have you been a vegan for? Vegetarian, vegan? Vegan since I was three and a half years old.

Starting point is 01:13:51 This has been a whole part of your life. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You know what I do like sometimes? Radishes. Yeah, I just had some. You know what I just made yesterday?

Starting point is 01:14:02 I made radishes and jalapenos together. Fantastic. Lemon, salt. I like having some salt in water. I like fasting recently, I've been doing it a lot. Have you? And I really love it. Really, what did you do?

Starting point is 01:14:16 Just nothing. Just water. Yeah, just water and a little bit of salt. Put some salt in your hand. But you even look forward to the salt, I would even go to the gym. Oh wait, you went to the gym? I would go to the gym, I'd get home like,

Starting point is 01:14:26 when I get home I'm having my fucking pinch of salt. How long do you fast for? 73 hours is the longest that I did so far, but I'll just do a day, like I did like 36 hours the other day, I feel like I'm doing like a day a week now, 24. Yeah, that's great, it's good for you, but are you sure you should work out while you're doing it? No, I'm not sure.

Starting point is 01:14:44 Maybe look into that. I don't know, but I remember doing that and then I didn't feel good and maybe it was that. Oh. I want to ask you one more question before you leave because I feel like we've had a nice conversation so I want to push the bounds of it. Oh, push it.

Starting point is 01:15:00 It's okay, you can do whatever you want, man, it's fine. Do you feel, like, did you like being a son? Is that a weird question? Is that I like being a son? Because I never thought about it, I just thought about it like as we were sitting here thinking about that, we were both, you know, we had that in common. A lot of people had that in common.

Starting point is 01:15:17 You have siblings? Yeah, I got three siblings, one boy and two girls. Oh, you have two girls, yeah. Well, I was the second son, and my brother was quite a force, and was definitely like, I don't know, was like mythical or Shakespearean, or maybe it was because he died or something,

Starting point is 01:15:39 but he was like the first son, and he was incredible, and he was incredible and he was such a force within our family. He was kind of like the guiding light in some ways. He's one that acted first and we used to sing on the streets and he played guitar and kind of like oversaw. He was like a lead singer?

Starting point is 01:16:02 He was the lead singer and he was the guitarist and kind of oversaw everybody and he was such a, like a strong but gentle force within the family. So I think in some ways, if I'm honest, a lot of my life, like growing up, I kind of was like, you know, like. Right, what am I going to do? Yeah, well kind of like, you're like,

Starting point is 01:16:26 and not a way of like, oh, this sucks, just kind of like, cool. No, but hey. Like, cool, like, feel secure. Yeah. Shit's handled. That's taken care of. Yeah, like, everyone's fucking handled.

Starting point is 01:16:37 Free at last. Yeah, for sure. I got three sisters, and they're also like, amazing and strong in the best way, And I have three sisters and they're also like amazing and strong in the best way and like, you know, forces like each of them just brilliant. And I probably, yeah, for like, yeah, I don't know that I, you know, I just, I never felt any weight or pressure about being the son, or anything like that. Maybe it falls on the first child a lot.

Starting point is 01:17:13 I never thought about that. I'm sure, and I don't know if it fell on him or if he just took it. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's just like, undeniable. You know what I mean? Like, oh, look at the two of us, I'm the son. Sometimes.

Starting point is 01:17:31 You know what I mean? He's working freelance over here, okay. It's kind of the truth, right? And there was no, like, I'd never, you know, we also, there was like a four year age difference between us, so I never, I never felt those things, like you know we also, there was like a four year age difference between us. So I never felt those things, like you know in movies it was like the brothers are like competing

Starting point is 01:17:50 and like angry and stuff. Like Shakespearean. Oh yeah, step brothers. That was funny. You didn't intend that to be funny? Yeah, I did not intend that to be funny. Really? Yeah, step brothers.

Starting point is 01:18:03 It still was. Oh, thank you, yeah, I'm trying to think of other brothers This is good Jackson five. Maybe this is a good that's good But that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know I was just thinking about being a son because I never really even thought about it myself that much But yeah, if you have that brother you kind of have that get out of jail free brother, you know You're like, oh this this guy's got that, dude. He's a fucking lead singer.

Starting point is 01:18:26 I'll be back here. You know? Are you, or what? I'm the second brother. Yeah, I'm the second son. My brother was kind of like, went AWOL. So I was like, oh shit, I got to fucking pick up. I got to like, I got to do some recycling here, you know?

Starting point is 01:18:38 He's great now, but he was just like kind of like rogue. You know, he was like more of like a trouble maker. Just like lost. That's what I mean. He was like a lost rogue. He was more of a troublemaker, just lost. That's what I mean. He was a lost guy. But now he's great. And now he's my hero. It's cool to be able to still be in, that everything changes over time.

Starting point is 01:18:57 And what's the age difference? Two years. But yeah, he's a brave, what do I admire about him? He has a lot of empathy, and he's good for being patient with me. Yeah, it's like he has time for me, right? And that was something that I think growing up in our place,

Starting point is 01:19:14 it was just like I never, I didn't even know it was possible, you know? But yeah, he makes time for me. He makes time for me. And I think that's pretty special. That's good. You know, one thing that you guys talked about in Eddington was like whose land it is, right?

Starting point is 01:19:31 That was like a little bit of a theme. It was kind of a sub theme, I felt like, with the Native American and you guys were like, the county or the township, all butted up against native lands. Where do you feel like, it's kind of so weird where we are in the world right now or butted up against native lands. Where do you feel like, it's kind of so weird where we are in the world right now because I feel like people are still warring over lands.

Starting point is 01:19:53 You think that's, and like there's ice raids, like people are getting taken off of lands and like, you know, I don't know. I just feel like sometimes I thought we'd be further along in this. I don't really know Westerns, but I think that that's like a common thing in Westerns. At least that's the feeling I have when I think about

Starting point is 01:20:10 Westerns, it might not be, but just like the idea of like, this is my land and I'm the protector of this land and I will fight for this land. And so I think that is something that comes up in Addington and I think that both kind of, both figures, both the Sheriff Joe Cross and the mayor, Ted played by Pedro Pascal, both believe that they're like fighting for the land,

Starting point is 01:20:38 fighting for this town and that their, that their idea for this land is the right one. I was really moved by something that you said when you talked about the war in Gaza. I think that's really courageous to speak about it and you spoke about it in such an honest way and you spoke about it in such an honest way that I just thought was really beautiful. And it's crazy because what's going on is absolutely so fucking horrible.

Starting point is 01:21:19 There's no justification for fucking children starving to death in a conflict. It's that simple, right? You don't have to understand geopolitics or anything like that just to get that. I know there are conflicts all over the world constantly, but that's something that is, it's shocking like how maybe we're afraid to talk about it.

Starting point is 01:21:45 And oftentimes you're afraid to talk about it. And oftentimes you're made to feel like you're stupid because you don't understand geopolitics. You kind of go like, well, I don't have to understand geopolitics. Like you have to understand like human rights. Like basic human rights. Yeah, it's feeling it feels like to me, you know? For me, yeah, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:22:04 I don't care about, I don't know if I care about, I mean, but it's hard to say I live on a land that's kind of been taken from other people, but here I am saying like about geopolitics and I understand that, but then at what point do you not say something, you know? Like, yeah, and more in the time, and it's just like in Eddington kind of like,

Starting point is 01:22:21 and I'm not comparing like any of these two things, but people are watching things on their phones. And you can see for the first time some of this travesty in real time. And it just fucking hurts, man. And then you're like, am I crazy for not saying anything? But then here we are on a land where people are living in allotments now, Native American allotments,

Starting point is 01:22:42 and that sort of, you know? Yeah, and that's of, you know. Yeah, and that's a great deal of pressure and just, honestly, just you saying that makes me fucking feel like, you know, under pressure so I go like, okay, yeah, what am I talking about? But I think sometimes not acknowledging it is wrong.

Starting point is 01:23:03 Obviously I don't have the fucking solution, but war always fucking sucks, right? A conflict sucks. But what's happening, it's just crazy to me, just like, just the food distribution that's happening now. And Gaza. They said they're locking, they're like hiding it from people or that they're tricking people

Starting point is 01:23:22 or that they have to go so far to get it. It seems. Right, and why is it, like, why is it not hiding it from people or that they're tricking people or that they have to go so far to get it. It seems- Right. And why is it not the organizations that are typically overseeing that and have a century of experience or decades of experience in the different NGOs and they're not the ones that are overseeing the food distribution. It's a new organization, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

Starting point is 01:23:47 And so that is, yeah, just really troubling and heartbreaking, so it just feels like how do we not acknowledge that in some way? And so, and I think that you did, and I don't know when you did that, if you were like, if that made you nervous doing it or. Yeah, I think I felt scared. Yeah, well I was, it was, I think that it was, it was courageous and it was meaningful

Starting point is 01:24:15 and I think it matters and so, you know, straight up, I'm really here today because I was so moved by what you said and just like the courage to do that. Yeah, I was wondering why you came to be honest. To be very honest in some ways or not in some ways, but thank you, man. I can't even believe that you saw that. And yeah, not thank you, but like, yeah, I think that shit just like, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:24:42 It's just like, it's crazy to think like I'm laying in bed at night and I'm warm and I'm okay, and to think that there's like some kid who's never gonna put these pieces together, you know? And even the kids who have to be alive are the people who still have to be alive. What life do they have, you know? Like what, like, I don't know. It makes me like, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:25:02 And then you start to feel ashamed of your own existence in some ways. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. You almost, I don't know. And then you start to feel ashamed of your own existence in some ways. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. You almost feel ashamed to be alive in some ways in a little bit of a way. Does it make any sense, do you think?

Starting point is 01:25:13 Yeah. I understand the feeling. Yeah, it's a feeling. I totally understand that feeling. But thank you, man. Thank you for, well, yeah, not thank you, but yeah. I don't know, it's interesting. But I think it's important today that you do say something like you say, and not to think that this isn't affecting people. I think, yeah, that we're human beings.

Starting point is 01:25:34 We absorb what's going on, and we watch the actors that are out there in the world, and it affects us. It affects children. What are kids doing or seeing those things on TikTok? What happens to them? we absorb what's going on, you know? And we watch the actors that are out there in the world and it affects us, it affects children. What are kids doing or seeing those things on TikTok? What happens to their brains and stuff, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:54 But no, I'm grateful to be able to be in a place today and in a country where we can still say something, you know? And it's not mandated by some other power and who knows if that's coming soon or what's happening. So. Do you have some inside information? I have nothing. Okay, good, I promise.

Starting point is 01:26:12 I thought you were looking at me like that you knew some shit. You're like, no, okay. Oh, that's good. Is there a, you know, I was thinking the other day, I missed Philip Seymour Hoffman, I's good. I was thinking the other day, I missed Philip Seymour Hoffman. I missed him. I miss his acting. Is there somebody that you miss?

Starting point is 01:26:36 Like their acting? Or like a Philip Seymour Hoffman I'm trying to think? Michael Landon I miss? Who's Michael Landon? He did Little House on the Prairie foririe. Yeah, of course, of course. And then, what was the Heaven? Highway to Heaven. It was Highway to Heaven.

Starting point is 01:26:52 With Victor French. God. Because I think that was one that I tried out for several times. You're lying. No, I'm sure, I'm sure. God. Yeah, it's definitely in my memory,

Starting point is 01:27:04 but that was one of the shows when I was a kid that was popular. Yeah, it's definitely in my memory, but that was one of the shows when I was a kid that was popular. Yeah, dude. Wow. He, yeah. He was something special. He was a really special. Wow, so he was, what's happening, oh.

Starting point is 01:27:19 In between. What's this thing here, it says 1984, and then RIP, what is that? Well, apparently he took the highway to heaven. He was in the HOV lane in that picture. You know, that's all we can do. Oh, shit. Anyway.

Starting point is 01:27:32 Hey, listen, you're going back out on the road, right? Yeah. Is it fun or is it grueling? It was fun. I think I'm ready to stop doing this hour material. It's changed a lot. It's like probably 60% different than when I started. So it's evolved a lot and adjusted, but I am, I am, uh, I'll be happy to get it done. When I feel like we've gone to all the places that we can and like kind of, you know, you want everybody to have a chance to see it if they want.

Starting point is 01:28:01 Um, but I'll be happy to have a chance for my brain to settle down and not always have to feel like I have to go do this thing every other week or every couple of weeks, which is a blessing. But still, it's like just this thing on the calendar. It's almost like you're always having to take a vacation. And so I'll be happy when that's done. So I can see what else do I want to think about and do. Like, you know, I work with this group called Valor

Starting point is 01:28:25 that does like sex and love addiction, intimacy disorder, stuff like that. So I wanna like just have a little bit more time to do stuff that's not just focused on myself maybe, I guess, I don't know. So. It sounds, I imagine it would be nerve wracking. I can't imagine be nerve wracking.

Starting point is 01:28:45 I can't imagine having to do that. Really? Yeah. Yeah, like getting up, like getting up, yeah, like standing. It's like just standing. That makes me fucking nervous. And then, but then you walk around, you have a microphone, and you say shit, and it's crazy.

Starting point is 01:29:03 You could do it, man. Dude, I'll tell you, and this is, I think, is the only way to end this is just these boots were made for Joaquin. OK? So we have to. Perfect. Dude, thank you so much.

Starting point is 01:29:16 Thank you for spending time with me today. Thank you for thinking with me today. And I just appreciate it. It was nice of you. And yeah, you just do a great job of being able to create things that the rest of us can't to make us feel. And so that's a gift that you have. And I feel lucky that you have it.

Starting point is 01:29:34 And so thank you for just bearing that gift. Oh man, thank you. That's... Well, thank you. Thank you. That's just too, I know I just get embarrassed. I could, I just want to go. I want to dissect everything you're saying.

Starting point is 01:29:51 That's nice about me and tell you why you're wrong. Yeah. But, uh, I won't do that. And look, let's just thank Motel Chelsea here. Thank you for having us. Epic. Sweet here. And cheers to our dads, man.

Starting point is 01:30:04 They're out there. Cheers to those guys. And cheers to our dads, man. They're out there. Cheers to those guys, dude. We don't, my dad, we don't know where he is still. So that's, we're not sure. Okay. Somewhere. TVD, guys.

Starting point is 01:30:15 Yeah. You know, good luck. I hope you find your way. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. You aint!

This Past Weekend - #598 - Joaquin Phoenix

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