This Past Weekend - #647 - Dr. Peter McCullough

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Dr. Peter McCullough is a physician-scientist, cardiologist and best-selling author known for his research on the effects of Covid-19 vaccines.  Dr. McCullough joins Theo to share his views on side effects of Covid-19 vaccines, how the medical research community can discourage alternative treatments, and his thoughts on how big pharma got so big in the first place. Dr. Peter McCullough: https://www.instagram.com/petermcculloughmd/  ------------------------------------------------- Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ  Better Help: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.  Go to http://betterhelp.com/theo for 10% off your first month. Jolie: Head to http://jolieskinco.com/theo/ and start the year with better water. Shopify: Go to http://shopify.com/theo to get started with Shopify. Valor Recovery: To learn more about Valor Recovery please visit them at https://valorrecoverycoaching.com/  or email them at [e-mail] ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [e-mail] Hit the Hotline: [phone] Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend Twitter: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/  Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Andrew https://www.instagram.com/bleachmediaofficial/  Producer: Halston https://www.instagram.com/halstonrays/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's in theaters April 17th. But if you get tickets now, it'll show the movie theaters that we're going to sell them or that they are selling. And then we can expand to more theaters. So if you know when you're going to go and you can support, that would be great. and no pressure if you can't. Again, the pre-sale tickets are available. Busboysmovie.com. I'm excited.

Thank you. Today's guest is a physician. He's a cardiologist. He's an author. He's a professor. He was the vice chief of internal medicine at Baylor University Medical Center. He later became known for his investigations into the COVID-19 response here in America. we're looking forward to spending time with today's guest, Dr. Peter McCullough.

And you can move this any way you want. If you decide you're in it, moving over here, you can just move the mic over there. I don't have the type of voice you have. Get that deep voice. We'll make sure. We'll let you know if it's all. Okay. Yeah, you kind of that whisper, huh?

Man, well. You like to whisper? I was recently in the UK, and this woman who's an actress and got up, and everyone was shouting at the microphone, making their things, myself included. Shaka, she got up, and she started whispering, and everyone paid attention. Yeah, that's a whisper, and that's how it's a lost art. Yeah. But really the value, when everything is so high, you have to think that if you come in at

another intonation, if you come in at another level, you have to find an alternate route into people's brains and hearts and stuff. And yeah, whispering, gosh, if we had just like whisper Tuesdays where everybody just whispered. There was a doctor at Stanford back when I was. was accepted in academia. His name was Glenn Chertow. And when he spoke, it was so careful. And he talked like this.

And I remember the sponsors of a big meeting. I was at the National Institutes of Health. I said, what is it about Glenn Chertow? He seems to be getting all the attention. They said, he appears wise. He has the appearance of wisdom, the way he speaks. He may not be wise. but he appears wise.

The other thing that helps you that you and I don't have. Oh, he brought him up. There's Glenn right there. There he is, beautiful guy. Yeah, good, good. Are we going to bring people thinking up on the screen? We can. Oh, it's going to be so much fun.

Oh, yeah. But anyhow, the one thing that my uncle Ivan taught me is that you can double your perceived intelligence with a British accent. Really? Oh, yeah. You get a British accent. they think you're twice as smart as you used to be. Twice as smart.

I feel like, oh, if I meet a British girl, I'm like, oh, tell me everything. I feel like they just know everything. Yes. Read me a book, Mom. Have you ever read that book, Culture Code? Oh, culture code, no. It's about what's your first impression? And he did focus groups.

It's very scientifically, very solid. He said, when you meet a British person, what's the first word that comes into your mind? Good, eh? Oh, wait, that's Australian. Oh, um. You almost got it with that girl. Classy. Classy.

So if you're going to advertise something to the British, if you're going to have to show somebody playing polo and it has to be classic. Yes. Just finishing a biscuit, you know. So how about Italian? What's the first thing you think about when you say? Hey, you know. The Italian first thing? The culture code says artiste.

So you have to Michelangelo, you have to portray things, artistic, what have you. how about American? Now, if you just do this globally, when you... Like a belch, kind of? Oh, close. America, the conclusion is, out of this world. So you want to advertise an American, like, you know, landing on the moon or just doing something completely, you know, Elon Musk, you know, just jetting somewhere.

Yeah, just knocking up people and just blasting rockets into people and into space. So Culture Code is... a code of advertising. And what he said is if you break the code, if you try to advertise something that goes against what people are thinking, your product is going to bomb out. So what's the culture code word for nurse?

What's the first thing that comes to your mind? Helpful. Close. Mother. So you always want to show a nurse holding a baby. What's the culture code for doctor? Information. Hero.

Hero. Hero. You know, hero, going to save your life. Culture Co. is written, I think, in the 80s or 90s. It's probably changed. Well, here's another one. It fits for COVID. What's the first thing that comes in your mind when you think of hospital?

Safety. Death trap. Death trap. And he interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people did these focus groups. Culture Code. Culture Code. It's a great book. It's a quick read.

and in your business, you'd want to, I guess, kind of be in tune with the code. Yeah, I think there's some codes that you pick up on people that don't realize, you know. But yeah, no, I think that's interesting. Just people are able to examine that, like how people operate and how we perceive certain things. And your guy that's kind of like, I guess the way you've operated has kind of changed over the past few years. I know it's certainly like grown in perception, like your ability to reach people has grown. Yes.

You are a physician scientist, is that correct? Yes. Okay, and what exactly does that term mean? That means I practice medicine. And, you know, I see an examine patients every day, board certified in internal medicine and cardiology by the National Board of Physician and Surgeons. So also a cardiologist?

And a cardiologist. But I'm also a scientist, meaning I, I evaluate new concepts. I develop hypotheses. I use the scientific method. And I conduct studies, case reviews, literature reviews, analyze data, formulate an analysis, and then come up with opinions. And through that method, I'm one of the most published doctors in the world. And certainly the most published in my field previously, which was heart and kidney disease.

So, you know, I came into the pandemic locked and loaded. In 2007, I had testified before the Congressional Oversight Panel for the FDA. I had lectured at the European Medicine Association, New York Academy of Sciences. lectured widely at virtually every major medical school in the United States, published seminal papers. But when the pandemic hit, what I saw within the first few months is no one was going to the problem. No one was, you know when there's a fire or a catastrophe, and let's say 9-11 and the building is burning, most people ran this way. but some of these first responders, they ran right into it. I found myself in the same mode.

At first few weeks, I said, well, surely Harvard will tell us what to do or the Mayo Clinic or maybe the U.S. government. Usually the government on medical things is a laggard. They're not a leader. So if we had a new cancer problem, we wouldn't say, well, what does the government say? the government is is behind academia. Got it.

Within a few months of being into the pandemic, I said, listen, you know, I need to do my part. I know other doctors in the hospital doing their part. And I devised the first treatment protocol of how to treat high-risk patients. We're talking elderly patients, patients with a heart disease, lung disease,

kidney disease at home, with very intensive therapies and oxygen at home to avoid too bad outcomes, hospitalization, and death. And that became copyrighted as the McCullough Protocols, published in American Journal of Medicine in 2020. Immediately I was called before the U.S. Senate. I appeared November 19th, 2020. And so the Association of American Physician and Surgeons,

a leading doctor's group, did pick up the McCuller Protocol. it became standard of care. And the principles were used. It became standard of care when? Because it was... It became early standard of care in 2020. For high-risk patients, we immediately organized telemedicine units. And, you know, it was the McCullough protocol that kept the hospitalizations down.

Remember, there were projections that we were going to overrun our hospitals. Oh, yeah. There were, like, emailing people. Like, do you have a place we can put bodies at your house or whatever? I had patients in their 90s with pacemakers and heart failure. When we got going early with the McCullough Protocol, we start with getting fresh air, nasal sprays and gargoles, nutraceuticals. They all played small roles. Initially, the first year, we used hydroxychloroquine as our antiviral and antibiotics and other drugs.

Second year, Ivermectin. And then third year, we actually used Paxlovod came in in the third year, Molinapir. We used those drugs, but I have to tell you, the winner was Ivermectin. For sure, for sure. But I think cortical steroids, prednisome played a huge role. anti-inflammatory drug called Colchicine we use widely today and then antithrombotics. What was the McCull of Protocol? Like what went into it?

Like what were you basically advocating for people? I was saying that if we got behind on this illness, it was becoming clear we can't start treating when people are sick enough to go in the hospital. They were, virtually every death occurred in the hospital. So McClellar Protocol said, There's two bad outcomes, hospitalization and death. And if we can treat up front and never go in the hospital, we'll get through the illness. Now, I did an artificial intelligence search recently, which is a great use of AI.

And I asked AI, tell me what percent of the world's population contracted COVID? And it searched every single database and what have you. And, you know, the number it came up with was 90%. Wow. Now, the pre-programmed bias that's still left in AI is promotional of pandemic fear, which you're still at risk, promoting vaccines, and doing everything it can to tell people they have no other options. It's pre-programmed. So if you go to GROC...

Is that true? Yes, true. Let me give an example. Okay. If you go to GROC and you say, who's Dr. Peter McCullough, it'll say, well, Dr. McCullough is a cardiologist and it'll go on and on. They'll say, but he's a conspiracy theorist and he lost his board certifications. It'll start saying all these things.

I said, listen, just say who it is. Don't put in any defamatory comments. Just give the straight facts. Then it'll actually give a straight answer. So Grock will tell you, I'm the most published person on the pandemic, period, in the world. Okay. And so if you actually tell Grock, stop all the BS, it'll do it. With Alter AI, you don't have to do that.

So at McCullough Foundation, I started a foundation, we formed a relationship with Alter AI and we pay for it and we get a clean feed. But I think even co-pilot will come up with formerly practicing. No, I'm in practice. I just saw patients yesterday. I mean, look at it just, it just goes on and on. Dr. Peter McCullough, yeah, formerly practicing as a cardiologist and internist. Wrong. Because I'm practicing today.

He is highly published in medical literature. Over 1,000 publications cited tens of thousands of times, became widely known during the COVID-19 pandemic for his early advocacy of outpatient treatment protocols, including controversial early use approaches and for his strong public criticisms of COVID-19 vaccines. Yeah. Okay. Well, this seems...

It's getting there. You know, a thing about artificial intelligence, which I think is a huge advance. By the way, I'm using it in my practice. day now. Huge advance. One more thing here. His views on COVID-19 vaccines and related topics have been heavily criticized by mainstream medical organizations, fact-checkers, and sources like fact-check.org, which describe many of his claims as misinformation or unsupported. Do you know not a single medical organization has reached out to me even for a discussion? And, you know, fact-check.org,

that's not a medical organization. I don't know. No idea what that is. So the idea is, let's say a medical organization said, let's have a discussion about COVID vaccine complications. Not a single one. There hasn't been a single medical school in the United States that's even had a grand rounds on this, let alone invite me to present grand rounds. Why do you think that is that they haven't reached out to you to have a conversation? They haven't reached out to anybody. Okay. There is a tremendous willful blindness to what's gone. on through the pandemic. There has been no review of lessons learned. What did we learn from the pandemic? I agree. It's so wildholl. So much information was every day it was this, this,

go here, get a booster. If you can't, like, get a vaccine, like hang your family member out of a window. We'll have an archer come by with a vaccine, like from Pfizer. Yeah, it was like, we can, you know, we'll vaccine them from the road or whatever. It was like, it was getting crazy. But yeah, it's kind of wild how afterwards, there hasn't been as much like, hey, these are the things we learned. This is like what we've learned as a society. Well, we're told over and over again there's going to be another one. It's called Disease X. It's going to come out of another biolab. Shit, it's going to come out of Miami, I'll tell you that. Or Galveston, Texas. They got a BSL4 lab there. Do they? I don't know. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

They got some BBLs over Miami. No, it's, is it really? They're dealing with some bad stuff down there. Okay, Mark Dad. I want to go back and talk about that in a second. Wait, so this is it right here, defining disease X. Well, look at Bloomberg School of Public Health. Who's the major funder of Bloomberg School of Public Health? Bill Gates. Wow. This is a dream. This is a dream of those who want to vaccinate the world is they want another disease X. Of course. It's another industrial war complex. That's what this is. Well, you got it. But it's on your bodies. I do want to say this. And Bill might just be trying to solve whatever he was potentially given his wife. I don't know. That's allegedly. But I will say this. I want to read this right here because you mentioned

Disease X, I haven't heard about it. Since 2018, the mysterious and often misrepresented hypothetical pathogen has been at the heart of international pandemic preparedness efforts. Just that sentence alone, when you look at that sentence, look how bullsh, look how front-loaded and vague it is. Since 2018, this mysterious, often misrepresented hypothetical pathogen has been at the heart of international pandemic preparedness efforts. Like we're so prepared for we don't even, for something that's super vague. It's just like you can feel it's setting you up for something. Well, let's go to SEPI,

the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness and Innovation. It's founded in 2017 by the World Economic Forum and Bill Gates. And SEPI, in its business plan in 2017, says there's going to be a series of these pandemics, one after another, coming in, like hurricanes. And for each one, there will be only. only one solution, mass vaccination. And CEPI is a vaccine incubator.

They're going to be ready. Let me tell you, vaccines and pandemics is big business. Way more than pro sports, way more than anything else you can think of. It's huge business. And in this world of, we don't hear about other forms in this industrial complex now, other things now outside of biological threats and then countermeasures, which is a military term, which are vaccines, therapeutics, and protective equipment. But the idea is these are so richly funded, they're so richly funded that the entity that holds the threat and holds the antidote,

they hold power. Can you imagine the negotiating power you would have if you said, hey listen, I got COVID-20 locked and loaded right now in an undisclosed location can get the whole country sick. We want a little better tariff situation. Can you imagine the negotiating power? And Peter Dasick, who's part of this whole conspiracy to create SARS-CoV-2, when he testified in the House representatives,

he said, I left a whole bunch of samples back in Wuhan. So I'm confused. What was he doing there? Peter Dasick was the go-between between Dr. Ralph Barrick at University of North Carolina of Chapel Hill who devised the virus and was publishing on it and the federal government. Dasik was at the EcoHealth Alliance. It's a go-between organization that was shuttling money for Barrick's projects over to Wuhan. Dasik had been to Wuhan many, many times. He knew that lab well. To create the virus, you mean? Correct.

Understood. Okay, let's back up one second. I just want to look at Sepi. Who created Sepi? Bring that back up? Sepi was a world economic forum and the Gates Foundation. You'll find, I think, the government of Germany and India, I believe, was involved as well. But this is a richly funded multibillion-dollar organization. You just can't imagine how big these units. Oh, I can totally. You know, you look at the Industrial War Complex. And now you start to see it's the industrial medical complex, right? That's the new one that really seems like it's sprouted over the past 20 years. Correct. Right here. Sepi is the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness, Innovation, a global organization focused on accelerating vaccine. Vaccine development. Okay. Sorry. It was created in 2017 through a partnership between the governments of Norway and India,

the Welcome Trust, and the Bill and Millenegades Foundation. Yep. And go back to Disease X. I want to just read what it was really quick. By the way, Sepy's got a big Disease X section. They have a whole white paper on it. Wow. disease X is a placeholder concept that refers to a pandemic pathogen that has not yet been characterized. How vague is that? Like, hey, it exists, but we don't know what it is exactly yet.

But we have a vaccine for it. Its purpose is to encourage proactive thinking about pathogens that could cause a pandemic. Oh, so disease X isn't an actual disease. It's a plan? It's a plan for a disease. So disease X was SARS-CoV-2. It was a planned disease. And here we are.

It was a plan. And, you know, my first book, Courage to Face COVID-19, we expose CEPI and what we call a biopharmaceutical complex. You called it a bio-industrial complex. Same thing. But there has been a cartel that's formed. It's very powerful. It's probably back 2004 is probably when it started with the Bioshield Act, but it includes the World Health Organization, the World Economic Forum, Gates Foundation, Welcome Trust,

the Rockefeller Foundation, CEPI, Gavi, Unitate, all these organizations, all organized, to essentially plan for, create pandemics, and then respond to them. And that's how COVID-19 ultimately, it's essentially known now. This was not a spontaneous thing from nature. This was planned. What's the number one piece of evidence that makes you feel like it's known that it was planned? Well, I think the best source of all of the evidence is Peter Breggen's book COVID-19 and the global predators. We Are the Prey.

I wrote the introduction for it. But he goes back again to about 2004, the Bowshield Act, where he outlines, 36 pandemic preparedness planning events. 36, historically. He's got a wonderful timeline. And of those, two dozen provide written documents. You can just read them, including one of them's the Prep Act in 2005, which says there will be a pandemic.

And we will have one. 2005, that was a Bush administration in HHS, said, listen, we're going to have one. And when we do, we're going to have countermeasure. And when we roll out these countermeasures, you better take one, and there is a complete freedom of liability. But 24 of them provide written evidence, and then six of them are filmed.

You could just go watch him. So is he kind of a whistleblower, do you feel like? He was a whistleblower back in the days where essentially Prozac wiped out, you know, consultative counseling psychiatry. Overnight, he wrote the book, talking back to Prozac. New year, new routines. But have you ever stopped to think about what your shower water is doing to your skin and hair?

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This medical industrial complex. Yes. Yeah, who is it exactly? Yeah, but hang on. People have said, well, wait a minute, it's big pharma. I disagree. I think the pharmaceutical companies and the in vitro diagnostic companies and the gown and mask companies, they're suppliers to the complex. The complex is this organized group that in many ways they have bad intentions.

And look at the last World Economic Forum meeting. They play a big role in this. it was one of the speeches where they said, you know, COVID-19 pandemic was a test of human compliance. They just come out and say that. Was it just written or did someone speak to that? Someone say it. Yeah, let's pull it up. World Economic Forum.

The pandemic was a test of human compliance. But the point I'm making is that there's a lot of interest in this whole field. we have divisions. Here we go. Who said that? No, the World Economic Forum did not describe the pandemic as a test of human compliance. The social responsibility. Key details from that and related WF publications include Test of Social Responsibility. Article explicitly stated that COVID-19 was the test of social responsibility. Citing the fact that people worldwide complied with the unimaginable restrictions.

Well, pretty close. I don't doubt that it felt certainly. like a psychological experiment. I mean, one of the things I was going to ask you is what do you feel like they learned from this? Like what valuable information was taken away, like whoever these powers are that be, you know? Well, I hope that they learned

that when they have a vaccine, that's an epic failure, that that's permanently going to set back aspirations for future worldwide vaccination. Now, if this vaccine would have worked and everyone took it and COVID magically went away and just everything cleared up in a month or two and there was nobody was sick anymore

and there was no side effects. These guys would have been heroes, right? Remember Bill Gates comes out in April of 2020 and says, this pandemic doesn't end until virtually every person in the world takes a vaccine. How does he know? It's April of 2020.

vaccines have... Right. Who knows what's going to happen. Right. Yeah, if you have a strategy, then of course that's what you're going to say. Well, Gates Foundation in the Bloomberg School of Public Health in 2017 hold a planning seminar. It's called the Spars Pandemic, S-P-A-R-S pandemic. It's at Johns Hopkins. And it says there's going to be a coronavirus pandemic in 2017.

Now, they held it in 2017. They thought it was going to hit in 20. 2025. Okay. It hits in late 2019. Then, and this is one of the ones that, you know, was well documented as a planning event, and then an event 201. Come on. That's November of 2019. What is event 201? Event 201 was again, Johns Hopkins, Bloomberg School Public Health, Gates Foundation. They have a meeting. They said, we are really going to have a coronavirus pandemic. They bring over George Gao, who's the Chinese CDC director, and he's paired up with others there. Averill Haynes is there.

Who's Averall Haynes? She's a former World Economic Forum Associate, becomes our director of national intelligence under Biden. Really? And she's with George Gao, and they're saying, oh, we're going to have a COVID pandemic, and this is how it's essentially is going to be used to railroad mass vaccination on the world. But do you believe that everybody knew that? Do you believe it a select group knew it? And then they just, because say if I have a devious plan, right?

I could still go to someone and say, hey, this is what's happening. I don't have to say I'm the one who's causing what's happening, right? So we're there, because the tough part is when you start to think of like that everybody was complicit. Like, you know what I'm saying? That's the part that starts to feel very impossible to a lot of people. I don't think that's the case. I got to tell you, I was in practice then. I had no idea this was going.

on. Everybody I talked to in my institutions all over the whole country, all over Europe. No one knew this was happening. The point is this was going on. This was in the open. No one was paying attention. I bet no one briefed Trump that in 2017, that they're going to, you know, they were planning for a coronavirus pandemic. I bet there wasn't a briefing. But does it also make sense that as our world evolves and as like biohacking and like research and everything becomes so much more intense and like medicine is evolving all the time and science is evolving constantly that's just what it does um that there would be it would make some sense to strategize that something like this could happen like that maybe we've moved on from like actual like like huge wars on land and then it's going to become more like

yeah i remember years ago you would hear like oh the next war is going to be in the water or it's going to be in the air, right? It's going to be a virus. You would hear stuff like that a lot, like just kind of randomly. Oh, there's movies, right? There's movie Contagion and all these other movies. What experts will say in infectious disease in vaccinology is that the reason why we have to have biolabs is we have to get ahead of nature. Right. So nature sooner or later is going to throw us a really bad bug and we're susceptible to these. And the case example they use is Spanish flu. In my book on vaccines, we spend a lot of time on the Spanish flu, which was very unique post-World War I. We have, you know, young men in army barracks. And remember,

influenza doesn't directly kill people. What kills them is a secondary staphococcal pneumonia, and that's what they die of. The point that was made, though, is that, listen, we could have another Spanish flu. And when COVID-19 pandemic broke, don't forget, the storyline we were told is, oh, here we go again. It's another Spanish flu. Now remember, Anthony Fauci knows it came out of the lab, but they collaborate together to say, you know what? It came out of a fish market. In fact, the WHO, when it was asked to investigate early in 2020, where did this virus come from? Rear Admiral Brett Gerr, someone who went to my medical school in Dallas at Southwestern. He was on President Trump's first task force.

Brett Jarrah nominates three U.S. scientists to go to Wuhan. The WHO says, no, no, we don't want them. We want Peter Dasick. Isn't that interesting? Dasik, who knew, in fact, he was shuttling the plans over there. So Dasik goes over to Wuhan, and he looks around. he goes, I don't know where this virus came from, but it definitely didn't come out of the lab.

He had been to the lab dozens of times. He shuttled the plans over. Anthony Fauci was well aware of this. They started covering up their emails. Ram Paul's got a great book called Deception. He has every single one of these events in it. But the point I'm making is those in this field keep saying,

listen, there could be another Spanish flu. we must get ahead of this. However, with the 2004 Bioshield Act and the 2005 Prep Act, the governments got in the game of bioterrorism. How did those acts allow them to do that? Well, what happened was we had the anthrax scare, which largely looks like it was a deranged government worker at Fort Dietrich, who was working on the anthrax vaccine for the military, and there has been

lost enthusiasm for this vaccine based on safety. And so he actually sent some letters to Leahy and other people in Congress, some people got sick. To this day, not a single soldier has died of anthrax because an enemy shot an anthrax capsule the other way. It's all been, you know, this event. Like these social events. Yeah. So, events. Yeah. So, um... Yeah, what happened with anthrax? Well, there's another great book with,

um, there you go. Letters containing anthrax force were mailed to several news media offices and the senators Tom Daschle. Patrick Leahy. Patrick Leahy, killing five people in the 1517. But what I'm saying is the anthrax scare and SARS-1, the SARS-1 outbreak, led to this idea that, wait a minute. There's money here.

Oh, first off, This could really happen. So we should be prepared. That's the reason why it's called the PEP Act. We should be prepared. And our governments should get in this game. So the military got in the game with a unit called DARPA, D-A-R-P-A. And the National Institutes of Health got in this game with a unit called B-A-R-D-A.

And these are pandemic preparedness units. Well, as they churned over time, there was funding of biolabs. and let's see how we can make this organism more contagious. And would this work? And let's test it here. And they got to Barrick. Barrett got to the point of, well, let's take a human coronavirus, of which there's four that we can get as a common cold,

and let's take the spike protein, the surface of it, from a bat, and then start to play with this until it can lock in with a human receptor called the ACE2 receptor and invade humanized epithelial cells in animals, and when they did that in Wuhan, it basically killed the animals. They said, ooh, now we've got a real. We took something benign, which is a coronavirus, and we've made it potentially lethal.

Now, in those papers, 2015... In what papers? In preview papers, 2015, Nature Communications in 2016, in the proceedings in the National Academy of Science, The first author is Menacheri, M-E-N-A-C-H-E-R-Y. Those two papers describe primordial SARS-CoV-2. In 2015 and 2016, this is published.

These are high-level peer-reviewed journals. And the title of the paper is a SARS-like COVID-Coronavirus, W-I-V-1, Wuhan Institute of Irology 1, virus poised for human emergence. So here they are in these papers, and you can pull them up, poised for human emergence. So they were announcing to the world, this isn't my field, I wasn't reading this. But was this a good guy saying this, or was this a bad guy saying this? These are the guys who were working.

This paper was done, the work was done in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Okay. They say it's gain of function research, but it was grandfathered in because it was started before the Obama ban on this. and we took it over to Wuhan. They thanked the Chinese for their collaboration. Now, the second paper that came out a month later in the precincts of the National Committee of Sciences,

they actually put the Chinese authors on. So this was in many ways in the infectious disease community in the open. Now, by the way, when the U.S. government funds work like this, they must put the genetic code of the new virus they created in a central data. bank. Did they do that? No. And when Ralph Barrett was interviewed on this in 2021, they said,

wait a minute, did you submit your genetic code? The virus, does it match your code from here? He says, well, I've had a discussion with the National Institutes of Health, and we believe it's a national security issue, and we are not going to release it. Now, his virus didn't have in it a key part in the spike protein called the furin cleavage joint. And it looks like that was the final thing that was added later. Understood. We hear about spike proteins a lot. What is that?

The spike protein is a spike or this projection on the surface of the virus. The ball of the virus is called the nucleocapsid. The red part shown there is the spike protein. Okay. The ball itself is benign. That's not going to kill you. All the lethality in SARS-CoV-2, what killed people, And some people truly did die of this was the spike protein.

The spike protein allows the virus to inject itself in the body. We sacrifice the part of the spike protein near the ball. The S2 is sacrificed and S1 goes into the body. Now, that's with the infection. The vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, are the genetic code for the full spike protein. So you take one of those vaccines. Now the genetic code is producing the full length spike protein. in the human body.

Was there a moment, do you think when they plan to unleash the virus, or did it just naturally sort of enter society, sort of? Like, that's where I'm a little bit confused. Was there like a day, like a D day of sorts where it's like, okay, this is when we're going to just unleash this virus into the world? Or do you think it was unleashed on accident? Like, what is your thoughts on that? You know, I don't exactly know, but I have listened to many opinions.

And one opinion who I think is on target is former CDC director, Robert Redfield. He believes it leaked out by accident summer of 2019. Accident, it just seems so, it feels like there would be so much security around something like this. No, no. There are... But if everybody's keeping it a secret. Listen, we've published this on my substack focal points, Nicolusia at McCullough Foundation. There's over 3,000 biolabs. Do you know there have been hundreds and hundreds of leaks? This went down in Galveston, there's been a ton of leaks. In Galveston, Texas?

Sure. These labs require biosecurity level four means you have to wear a hazmat suit, and they use reverse ventilation, what have you. All you need is a ventilation system going out, someone spilling a test tube, someone not being careful. And the Biden administration in 2024, in the summer of 2024, publish this legislation. And it's concerning pathogens of pandemic potential

that are dual purpose. It's very important. I'm a little confused. And what that means is we are in the business of creating pathogens that can create pandemics, but they have a dual purpose to get the world sick and to create vaccines. I see what you're saying.

So they're able to create a pathogen now that can get you just sick enough, you're saying? Get the whole world sick. Now, that's kind of tricky because... Let me read this really fast. Sorry. There have been no recent reports of community-wide leak or environmental breach from the biolabs in Galveston as early of 2026. In February 2025, reports disclosed that there were three incidents in 2024 where researchers were potentially exposed to infectious agents within the high containment labs. the Chapar-Capara virus.

A lab worker accidentally punched their finger with a needle while handling an infected guinea pig. Shout out guinea pigs, all of them. Chapare is a rare deadly hemorrhagic fever virus. Anthrax were also cited in the annual biosafety summer release and containment status. In all three cases, the incidents were contained inside the lab. So let's go to the focal points.com. We're going to have to start going to the original papers because you're getting snowed on artificial intelligence. getting snowed.

Okay, now do the search button up there and type in Biolab leak. Galveston? No, it'll come up. Okay. Let's pick any one of those. Just pick the UNC Chapu. That's it right there.

Click on the link right there. And this is what I do. I just go from the original papers. And none of this, I think. Yeah, because a lot of AIs, that was Jim and I think. a lot of AIs, you just don't know what they're pulling in. You're getting snowed.

The illusion of biosafety during SARS-COVID research, multiple apparent occult lab acquired infections identified under BSL3 conditions, premier U.S. labs. And so, you know, we're starting to get the idea that these labs are not infallible. And, you know, Trump has actually stopped federal funding of these, but they're richly funded by foundations

like Gates Foundation, Rockefeller Trust, welcome trust, and they're big business for universities. Do you know that not a single state has done an inventory of their biolabs? And I'm on the Senate Committee for Arizona. And they ask, well, Doc, what can we do to do better next time? I said, why don't you do an inventory of what universities are running biolabs? Wow. So there's biolabs on college campuses right now.

Oh, for sure. And are some of them handling pretty severely infectious diseases? Yes. Really? Yeah. Go back to. Like which ones? Do you know?

go back to focal points, and I want you to pull up when I did search on this and do a pandemic potential dual. You're going to get the Biden. There we go. Click on the top one. This is the government, just scroll down. This is the government work on pandemics. This is the bioweapons convention, 1975 that says we shouldn't be in this business. So they call them biological threats.

and just go down. The Biden administration put out guidance on this of this dual-use potential, and it's a 31-page document, and it's very minimal oversight. Listen, if you were making a nuclear bomb in a university lab, you'd have the nuclear, here it is,

you'd have the nuclear regulatory commission all over you. Yeah. And here, this is, is so light, voluntary reporting, just kind of tell us what you're generally doing. You know, there was a bio lab that someone found in Ridley, California.

There was one recently in Las Vegas. It's been said, I can't back it up, but it's said they're all over Ukraine. I am telling you, the next threat we have is from a biolab. I feel pretty strongly about it. Well, I think based on what's happened recently, yeah, I mean, I think that would make

a lot of sense to say. You know, America feels super compromised, I feel like, and a lot of, I know, shocking. And I think we trusted the red, white, and blue, you know. You believe that America was this thing for so long. And it may have been at some point. But I feel like the number one thing that I notice amongst a lot of my friends is that people just feel that everyone's questioning everything right now,

that we don't trust, we don't trust that our country, that our government, that are, that the entities out there are looking out for our best interest at all. In fact, that they're using us as prey. What countries do you feel like are leading the way in fighting for like truth and transparency, do you feel like? And then with that said, how hard would it be for there to be this world, like, pandemic cabal to take over? Has the world ever agreed on anything? No. All 193 countries ever? Ever? No. Written language. religion, nothing. But suddenly this pandemic comes out and all the countries agree that essentially

there's one solution, mass vaccination. You've got genetic vaccines that have never been used in mankind ever. And we're talking about largely messenger RNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, which are the leads. So we'd never use genetic vaccines in the history of man? Never. And so... Is that true, bring that up. These are the first genetic? What does that mean exactly? They're the first human messenger RNA vaccines.

It's the genetic code for the lethal spike protein. Got it. What a gamble. So you have a protein that's been worked on for years and years and years. And it's lethal. It's proven to be lethal. Then we create the genetic code for this lethal. protein and inject the genetic code with no idea what's going to shut it off.

No, genetic vaccines such as MRNA or DNA vaccines had not been used in humans before 2020. They underwent preclinical testing and early phase human clinical trials for conditions like influenza, rabies, Zika, HIV, and cancer, but none received regulatory approval or widespread use prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. Wow. Now listen, Messenger RNA has been around for a long time. There's a paper by Lalani and colleagues.

British Medical Journal that dates Messenger RNA development back to about 1985. Billions of dollars were poured into this by countries all over. Big companies, Curivac, Sanofi, Bioentec came along, Moderna. And there's a love affair with Messenger RNA technology. I'm telling you, love affair. Can you imagine any protein we want to we can make the code for, inject it, and start making a protein? the enthusiasm for messenger RNA is through the roof.

And, you know, when this pandemic came along, it was like go time for those people in the messenger RNA world. And there was a very important development step. And I think it's very unfortunate. No one briefed Trump on this. DARPA, a research unit of the military. And this one you have to bring up on the screen, guys. And DARPA is basically, there are governments,

lab. Yeah. Okay. Military. Got it. DARPA has a program in 2012. It's called the Adept P3 program. They announced in 2012 that our aspiration is to end pandemics within 60 days using messenger RNA vaccines in 2012. See if you can bring up, yeah, click on P3 right there.

Okay. Click on that and scroll down and you'll see a little. aims to specifically to develop a scalable, adaptable, and rapid response platform capable of producing relevant numbers of doses against any known or previously unknown infectious threat within 60 days of identification of such a threat in order to keep the outbreak from escalating and disruptions to the military and homeland. Now click on that next link, Autonomous. Now roll down, there should be a figure.

Is there a link there? I guess not. but they literally show messenger RNA in a little life cycle that that's what they're using in 2012. Lalani points out that this has been going on for the longest time it's almost as if the technology waiting for a use. And when this rolled out, to me, one of the greatest blunders was that there was no way to shut off this genetic code.

And so... What do you mean? way to shut off once it's injected into you? Yes. So normally cells make messenger RNA. So we have our DNA and a DNA codes for a message. The messenger RNA is made. It goes outside the cell and it works with ribosomes and it makes a protein like insulin. And then the messenger RNA is immediately dissolved with enzymes. Done. And so this cycle goes on and on and on. So the ability to make synthetic message RNA is powerful. But the reason why the development program stumbled so long

is that it was immediately dissolved by these enzymes. So Carico and Wiseman, who won the Nobel Prize in 2023, I believe, they came up with a process of replacing one of the base pairs in the code in messenger RNA uricil for a synthetic one called pseudal. once that happened, they were able to make the message RNA indestructible. Human enzymes can't break it down.

Now it's game on. Now it's ready. So now you, Carico and Wiseman, 2023 Nobel Prize. But this was after COVID had come out. I know, but the work was, don't forget, Nobel Prize is usually granted for 20 years at work.

So, you know, they were working on this for years. So Pfizer-Maderna, when they went through their decision-making on this, they tried, let's try to just replace 25% of the uricels. Well, it still gets dissolved. 50% still gets dissolved, 75%. They finally said, screw it. Replace all of it.

Let's make it fully synthetic. Well, let me tell you what. This gets injected in the human body. I was alarmed. When that proposal was made, I published an op-ed. So any of a fully synthetic genetic code inside of you? Yes. That can't be dissolved.

Cannot be dissolved. that's Pfizer and Moderna. And I published an op-ed in the Hill, and myself and Scott Atlas were invited through 2020 to kind of guide a House in the Senate of White House and what's going out with the pandemic. And I published an op-ed in the Hill in August of 2020. And the title of the op-ed is,

the great gamble of the COVID-19 vaccine development program. So I called it out. I said, listen, this is, a gamble and when this rolled up, the CDC says, well, it just stays in the arm and it'll be there for a couple days. We have now one of my patients in Dallas, and we've just published it. There you go. The great gamble.

You're looking at the only public figure in the world who questioned the vaccines before they came out. The only one. You can't find another person who put it in writing big time before they came out. They came out December. They came out December of 2020. No one did. P-MAC!

No one did. No one else did it. I mean, the point I'm making is the entire world was seduced by this technology. For sure. The seduction was overwhelming. Every country signed on to this. They couldn't wait to do this. Can you search that and see if the genetic code that was injected in with the MRNA vaccines, it doesn't?

Go to McCullough Foundation, McCulloughFND.org, and I'll get you the link there. But the point is, we have one of my patients. This guy's taken three Pfizer shots. He's had blood clots, you know, MRI proven heart damage. He's neurologic damage. He's absolutely miserable with these shots. And so we work with a lab in Germany that can actually detect the spike protein and scroll down to our publications.

You should find it here. But this is on your own website. Yeah, but it links to the publication. Everything I do is peer-reviewed and published. So that's him right there, actually, if you want to see him. That's Steve Kempin, the man right there with the glasses on. He's got Pfizer circulating his bloodstream 3.6 years after the shots. It looks hot.

So it's in his skin. We did skin biopsies. We did two sets of skin biopsies, multiple sets of blood tests. Okay. And is this the only patient like this you found? Well, it's the only, it's only, with every seminal observation, he is the seminal observation. Now they'll be, what does that mean? That means the first one.

It's the first observation. There it is. That's the central figure. This is essentially what we found in Steve Kempin. So this is the work we're doing at McCullough Foundation. You know, Harvard's not doing this. Mayo Clinic's not doing this. There's sick people who took the vaccine.

They are not looking for the spike protein. They're not looking for the vaccine. They're baffled. you know, the Biden administration spent a billion dollars on long COVID, never considered the spike protein, which is the cause of long COVID. When you get the infection, a part of the spike protein gets stuck in your body. You take the vaccine. You get the full-length spike protein body. No wonder you feel sick. Why wouldn't they be trying to figure it out? Because there's money there, too. It's the most interesting observation ever.

there's no lectures on the spike protein or vaccine injuries. There's no grand rounds. There's no primary care updates. The Biden administration spent a billion dollars on long COVID research. They didn't do a single spike protein or messenger RNA research study. Now we have a new administration in. They haven't done it. No one will look directly at the problem in the entire world.

And on top of this, there's plenty of. there's plenty of evidence suggesting each vial was different each batch was different some were super loaded some didn't have much in it at all there's tremendous batch to batch variability uh where are my gloves come on heat any day now winter is hard but your groceries don't have to be this winter stay warm tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila dot cae enjoy and store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in store. Many promotions are available both in store and online, though some may vary. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, it's March. You know it. We can't hide it. And this month, we're celebrating International Women's Day. And let's take a second to appreciate some of the strong

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market. Why, though? And how would you get all of these countries to go along with this continually and agree? Like there has to still be some like countries out there who willing to raise their hand and ask questions, huh? None. It's a mind-blowing reality. You can't get people to agree. This is the Biggest oblivion. But you are saying you're getting them all to agree to not look into this. Yes. How?

I was asked to lecture last year in Chautauqua, which is actually a great honor. Chautauqua is the heart of modern American liberalism. It's in Western New York. Roosevelt's have lectured there. And I thought about this. How can this be? How can not a single medical school have

have a spike protein project looking at this. And I picked two prior examples where there is a complete oblivion to a big problem. The first one was 1860 to 1920, what I call the first great cocaine epidemic. Every drug made by all the pharmaceutical companies was cocaine derivatives. It was in Coca-Cola. It was in Kianti wine. All the doctors experimented with this. the nurses used it.

All the medical journals were publishing effects of cocaine, improving energy in JAMA, New England Journal of Medicine. Halstead, the father of modern surgery, used cocaine as an aesthetic. He became a brutal cocaine addict. So did Sigmund Freud. He was on it, huh? Right. So, listen, this goes on for 60 years.

In Jemma, our U.S. Medical Journal, in 60 years, with hundreds and hundreds of papers on cocaine, there was one paper by an Irish doctor who said, I'm concerned this is causing addiction. One, in 60 years, a complete oblivion to the addictive potential of cocaine. So you're saying that it's possible. Okay, let me give another example. 1920 to 1978, what I call smoke fest. Everyone smoked.

A doctor smoked, nurses smoke. Everyone smoked. People in high society. Smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke. Doctors handed out cigarettes in the clinics. RGR Reynolds and American Tobacco Company, Philip Morp's. They had doctor... Prescribe cigarettes? No, they had doctor cigarette promotional campaigns where the doctors handed out cigarettes. They said which ones they thought were the best and doctors claiming smoking is safe. This goes on and on and on. And finally, Sir Austin Bradford Hill in the UK, an epidemiologist, and Richard Dahl, a doctor's medical doctor, present data in the UK in 1950, and they said, it looks like smoking causes lung cancer. No, you can't be, like you're smeared and discredited, debunked.

Loser. If it was social media, they would have been canceled. They would have been thrown off YouTube for saying that smoking caused lung cancer. They do the physician's smoking study. They come back four years later. They said, listen, smoking is causing cancer. In fact, half of British doctors are dying to smoking-related conditions. still doesn't convince them.

In the United States, this goes all the way to 1964. Luther Terry, our surgeon general, calls a meeting to Washington of the doctors and says, listen, I got the Surgeons General report, smoking causes lung cancer. Doctors were still smoking. They still didn't believe them. In fact, doctors were smoking in the operating room,

in the clinic. A great book is The Emperor of All Maladies by Mukherjee, one that Pulitzer Prize is in his first book. He describes the lead surgeon at Johns Hopkins, taking out these blackened lung cancers in surgery. And he was smoking all the time when he was doing the surgery and teaching the students, no, smoking doesn't, the black smoke doesn't cause the lung cancer.

He himself dies of lung cancer, and on his deathbed, he still says that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. It's not until 1978 before the AMA sheepishly comes out with its first brochure, the dangers health hazards of smoking. And it's not until the 1990s before we have the tobacco settlement. So my point is, listen,

if cocaine and the doctors being totally oblivious to cocaine because they were seduced by it, totally oblivious to smoking because they were seduced by it, and now totally oblivious to the hazards of these COVID vaccines. We got three examples here. What's common to all of them?

Self-participation. That is, they did it themselves. Can you imagine if you told a doctor, listen, did you take the Pfizer-Madernia vaccines? Yeah. Do you know they don't leave the body, and they're still in your body now producing spike protein? No. And no, I don't know, and I don't want to know. And did you have your wife and your family take it?

Oh, yeah, I did. And do you tell your patients to take it? Yeah. Do you know it causes fatal heart damage and blood clots and autoimmune problems, neurologic problems, stroke, and it may cause cancer? It's overwhelming. the average doctor cannot psychologically handle it, just like they couldn't psychologically handle it, that cocaine was damaging themselves and ruining their lives

or like smoking was causing their lung cancer. It's the same thing. Wow. Yeah, I guess when you look at it like that, that it's happened throughout time, that if we've been standing right there in the sun and denying light, it's pretty wild. What are some of those common side effects

that you've seen from the COVID-19 vaccines? Most concerning is fatal heart damage. Myocarditis. Fatal. What is myocarditis? We hear about it all the time. People are like, you know, a kid falls down in a soccer game and people are yelling. He's got myocarditis.

You know, you just don't know what's going on. What is it exactly? There was a very important paper by Crosin, K-R-A-U-S-O-N from Harvard, that found in some people who took the vaccines found that the message RNA is physically in the heart. That's a bad sign. Whatever you take in the arm should not end up in the heart. So it has a tropism for the heart. It actually has a predilection to go in the heart.

So there's crossing to the 2023. So messenger RNA is in the heart. Okay. Yeah. And let me see. Duration of SARS-COVID2, MRI vaccine, persistence and factors associated with the cardiac involvement in recently vaccinated patients. Let me see what it's there.

Vaccine was detected in the axillary lymph nodes. in a majority of patients dying within 30 days of vaccination, but not in patients dying more than 30 days from vaccination. So originally it was going to the heart. Read farther down. Vaccine was detected in the myocardium, in the heart, in a subset of patients vaccinated within 30 days of death. I mean, it's at the scene of the crime.

Okay. Another paper by Beaumier, B-A-U-M-E-I-E-R, Beaumire found the spike protein in the heart. He didn't have the tech to find the messenger RNA, but he found the spike protein in the heart. And there you go, that should be Beaumire. That's it. So this is image, these are images showing inflammation

and spike protein in the heart. So here's the point. The vaccine is in the heart. The spike protein is the heart. When you have inflammation in the heart, the heart is dependent on having a nice consistent muscle for conduction of electricity. That's how our heartbeat comes depolarization. When you have inflammation, that creates heterogeneity in conduction, and then we can actually

get a re-emtraneity loop, an electrical loop that goes around very, very fast. That's called ventricular attackacardia. And if that isn't shocked or interrupted, it degenerates the ventricular fibrillation, and you're down. Now, the triggers, we've had myocarditis rarely before the pandemic from various viruses and other forms of inflammation. It was known then that we can never let these people exercise. Because if they exercise, the surge of adrenaline through exercise can trigger this abnormal heart rhythm. Wow. It's under our guidelines. So as the vaccines roll out, and we've had a U.S. Senate hearing on this in May of 2025, people started getting heart damage with the vaccines. And if you look up U.S. Senate testimony, March, May 21st, 2026, Ron Johnson, Peter McCullough,

the U.S. government got communications from Israel saying, listen, we gave the vaccine to all our soldiers. We got 60 cases of heart damage and two cases are fatal. This came in in February of 2021. The public health agencies, they all sat on this, the White House sat on this, and they didn't inform the public. And so more people got vaccinated. Then a big bomb hit, and the bomb hit, that's my opening statement right there, a big bomb hit in August of 2021, where a paper was published from Washington University in St. Louis. First author of is Verma, V-E-R-M-A. And they describe a 42-year-old man

who takes a Moderna shot, develops myocarditis, gets really sick, goes in the hospital, and he dies right in front of them. They can't save him. With all the technology that we have, life support systems, everything else, he dies. Brutal, fatal myocarditis. And this is New England Journal of Medicine.

But here's my point. If there was a new drug on the market and we gave it to somebody and they died of fatal heart damage, there'd be product warnings, withdrawals. Doctors would say, wait a minute, I'm not concerned. Doctors showed no concern over this. Outside of me, I saw this.

I said, you've got to be kidding me. This kills a healthy 42-year-old man. If Moderna can kill a healthy 42-year-old man, with all the technology, and we can't save them, do you know how many people are dying in nursing homes, in athletic fields, and in schools, and all over, and how many people are dying in underdeveloped countries? But are we seeing an uptick in that?

Like, is there any information, or would we even get the correct information anymore? That's, that's, because it starts to get to this place where you're like, okay, if this is really happening, I'm not seeing people drop dead everywhere, you know? I'm not hearing that, but also you don't know if the, news is factual or not a lot of times.

Don't you think you would see it happening in mass so that it would really support some of this information that you're saying? You'd have to get to a point where it would be, people have estimated this. What would be something so significant that you'd see it with your human eye is probably more than 15%. more than 15% of the population you mean? You'd have to just see bodies all over the place. Right, right.

Yeah, you'd literally have to be like, oh, man, what's going on? Otherwise, you'll miss an important signal. Now, there's 12 studies showing mortality is actually up since the pandemic, not down. You know, you go through a pandemic, there's a culling effect. There should be, you know, sicker, frail people who die, and therefore the remaining people have a lower mortality if the pandemic mortality is up. Do you believe that the number of vaccine, related deaths is being misrepresented?

Yes. So let's go to OpenV-V-A-E-R-S-D-R-S-com. Click U.S. data. Okay, nobody's challenged this. This is presented in the U.S. Senate multiple times. These are deaths reported to VERS by doctors like me who've already determined the vaccine is the cause of death. This is not controversial.

I've reported some of these cases. I've already decided the vaccine caused the death. filed the death certificate, I've looked at the autopsy, I've looked at the MRIs, I've looked at all the data. This is not up to the CDC to decide. I've decided, okay? 19,609 deaths. Okay. Do you know how many deaths per year come into this system for all the other vaccines combined? 150. 150,000? Total. Wow. This is off the rickory. scale, off the Richter scale. And so in Senate and House and Senate and FDA testimony, people say, wait a minute, if you don't have the vaccine card and you're not willing to report it

and you don't have all the data, it can't be reported. So what is the underreporting factor? It's actually a publication on this. But from you, from conservatively, because people are aware of COVID and fatal side effects, the conservative estimate is 30. And in my publications, I use 30. 30,000? No, 30. It's an underreporting factor, meaning this 19,609

is probably underreported 30-fold. So the true number of vaccine deaths is between 500 and 600,000 deaths. No way. Yeah. Wow. And how do you get that 30-X? Well, there's a paper by Lazarath that said it's 100.

It's 100-fold underreported. People said, no. People know about these COVID vaccines. So we are reporting more. more deaths now than other vaccines. But 30-fold underreported is conservative. It's conservative. But even if we, even if there's no under-reporting, 19,609,

what if we had 19,609 people die from, you know, a new energy drink? Yeah. People would be outraged. Like prime or whatever. Right? I mean, you know, we have a couple of people die in a building collapse. It makes the news. you know you have

Nancy Guthrie bless her heart she's abducted from her home it's on the news for weeks on end yeah Cass Patel can't even find her he's out partying it right no but what I mean is

we're like one death is too many but here we are here we are in that 19,609 are these in your face deaths reported in the peer-reviewed literature and one that really caught my eye is by Gill in colleagues Gil archives of pathology

this is terrible. This is two boys, they're teenagers. They die after taking Pfizer, and they're found, Eshtgill, they're found in their beds, dead at home by their parents. They get autopsies. They bring an expert pathologist. It's conclusive.

They died of taking the Pfizer vaccine, healthy, young adolescents. Let me read this. Clinical and autopsy investigation of two teenage boys who died shortly following administration of the second Pfizer biointech COVID-19 dose. The myocardial injury seen in these post-vaccine hearts is different from typical myocarditis and has an appearance most closely resembling a catecholamine mediated stress cardiomyopathy.

Understanding these instances are different from typical myocarditis and that cytokine storm has a known feedback loop. Do you want me to translate? Yeah. Okay. I mentioned that... It's that electrical loop you were talking about. Wait, I mentioned the vaccine is in the heart, the spike protein is heart, there's inflammation.

But what triggers the cardiac arrest is a surge of adrenaline that occurs on the playing field during athletics. It also occurs between 3 a.m. and 6 a.m. during the normal waking hours of sleep, called the waking hours. That's what happens. So the pattern of vaccine deaths has been during sports and athletics and then dead in bed. These are astronomical numbers. The simple fact that 150 people have died of vaccines each year, right? Is that what you're saying? That's what comes in the report.

Right. And this report is saying that there was 19,000, which we believe is highly underreported. Right. 19,000 over five years. But I can tell you, you know, by March of 2021, three months into the campaign, There were 1,600 deaths. Wow. And I was called to the Texas Senate.

I said, listen, I'm concerned. I had already expressed concern before they came out. I'm really concerned. And you can't whitewash this away. And that's what we saw being done everywhere. And I've heard ridiculous explanations like, well, these aren't verified. Well, who's going to verify them? The doctor has all the right.

When I do a veris report, the first three or four pages is all about me. Who are you? Who's making this report? Where's your name? What's your address? What's your email? What's your office address? What have you?

Okay. Then the next several pages are, who the patient? Who are they? Who are their relatives? Where's their email? What's their address? The CDC has all of this information on 19,000 deaths. Do you know how many people?

the CDC is actually called to kind of do a study? Zero. Wow. They're sitting on 19,600 deaths. They have all the information. They didn't even send a, you know, a, I'm sorry card. I mean, let alone do a study. I mean, to think that the Center for Disease Control were so diseased. We're one of the most disease, countries in existence, how they're even still allowed to function to me is just beyond me. I think most people, I'm seeing an uptick of people that want to give births in home, people that do not want to go to the hospital anymore, people looking for home remedies, homeopathic type of remedies, people trying to get off of their antidepressants. I mean, I think it's one of the largest resurgence is there's more people getting into homeschooling right now

Yes. Right now than there was during COVID, right? If you think about that, that's unbelievable. That's how much people do not trust any of these entities anymore. Well, have you heard that there's measles outbreaks everywhere? I haven't seen it. Yeah, it's all over. Oh, my gosh.

Is it true? Yeah, well, you know, there are now, there's one of the social media platforms, it's called Threads. Do you know what Threads is? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So go on Threads. I don't think we have a threads account, though.

Oh, I do. But anyhow, you go on threads. You are, every time you turn around, there's a measles update, another measles outbreak, another measles outbreak. That's interesting that that's where it's at, too. Nobody's even on threads. So of interest, we have about 1,000 measles cases so far this year. And average year, there's about 2,000 in the United States. There have been 40,000 distinct press pieces on measles' operations on measles' operations.

on measles outbreaks. Wow. And 75% of those encourage taking the measles vaccine. So this is interesting. And so, and by the way, in the pieces, they blame RFK and Trump. Now think about this.

RFK and Trump have been in office, what, a year and three months? A baby doesn't come up for the first measles vaccine until about 18 months of age. So the measles cases are seeing now, So the most ridiculous thing is they'll say measles outbreak hits college campus. So why don't you type in measles outbreaks?

There have been some of the measles cases on college campuses. And they'll say, you know, they'll blame RFK and Trump. Say, wait a minute, that kid's vaccine decision occurred 15 years ago. How can they blame Trump? And so there you go. Hits the University in Florida. Oh, yeah. Florida, UMass Amherst.

I've caught something over there. Okay. Okay, so here's another point. There have been measles outbreaks recently in the UK. So in the UK, well, how can you blame Trump and RFK? It's the UK. They have a different vaccine schedule. So here's the point I'm making is, and I wrote a sub-stack on this recently,

that if you go to the focal points.com, I'll give you the update numbers, that we have a situation where testing has been ramped up fourfold. Now they're just doing PCR testing for measles all over. And it turns out the measles vaccine isn't perfect. So in a paper by Bianchi and colleagues, they found about 20% of people to take the measles vaccine. They don't have any serologic protection. I'm one of them.

I took the first shot. I took a second shot. I went to medical school. I got a blood test. I had to take. I took four measles. I still don't have any of me. I guarantee if I got exposed to measles, I would get it.

So it's not perfect. But the measles is being used as an example to try to, in this whole vaccine promotional world, which is divided people into vaxers and anti-vaxxers. Have you heard that one? For sure. Are you an anti-vaxxer? No, I mean, I got vaccines when I was young.

I didn't get the COVID one. But I don't, I'm curious about the, science. And I think I don't trust the entities that tell us the things we need to do to take care of ourselves anymore. So I think everything should be put under a microscope right now. Yeah. And I think people should trust their own decision making. And if that's wrong or right, then at least you as a human can live with that, as opposed to feeling like you may have gotten poisoned because then that's out of your, then that's not your choice, really. Well, sure. And, you know, I think the unique thing about vaccines is they've been,

and we point this out in my book, they've been proposed to, essentially be a savior to humanity and that you get a vaccine to protect other people. And in many ways, that's a myth. The real reason to get a vaccine is for your own personal protection. So it must be a personal choice. Just like you take a blood pressure medicine to lower your personal blood pressure. You're not doing it for somebody else. You're doing it for yourself. But vaccines have been presented that, wait a minute, this is good for humanity. And people should do it. And if you're against doing it, you're hesitant. Wait a minute, vaccine hesitancy, that's actually a psychiatric disease. Do you know there's 20? Is serious? Yeah, there's 20 scientific survey instruments to assess

your vaccine hesitancy. And if you score above a certain level, you have a disease. Nuh. Yes. Bring that up. Vaccine hesitancy? Yeah, put up McCullough vaccine hesitancy. I just published a paper on this. It's not in the substack. You'll find everything on substack on my Twitter, you guys. Okay, that's it. Throughout history, there's always been, but this is just you writing it, but this is real information. It's peer reviewed. Okay. Throughout history, there's always been a fear of untreatable, potentially fatal communicable disease. Immunization has been an advancement in population health that has

developed over three centuries. However, fear of side effects is a psychological phenomenon that has arisen as a substantial issue for the lay public. Vaccine hesitancy, a complex phenomenon rooted in historical resistance to immunization, poses significant challenges as a concept to the research and public health communities. Who decided vaccine hesitancy was real? Are you just saying it? 18th century. It goes back to the 1700s.

Vaccine hesitancy, a complex phenomenon rooted in historical resistance to immunization. Yeah. And in the paper, I identified 20 different of these measures. You know, there's an Oxford measurement of vaccine hesitancy. That's so crazy. And it's just, yeah. So the idea is it actually, you're considered to have a psychiatric. disease if you are hesitant to take a vaccine.

That's how far this has gone. And, you know, people say, well, it was really hard during COVID. I lost my job, what have you. In our book, we point out that this is the late 18th century, let's say about 1790 or so, and some of these smallpox outbreaks, and clearly in the late 19th century, you know, 1890 or so, if you decline taking a vaccine or your children, your children go to the smallpox. go to jail. Families went to jail. Parents went to jail. This was enormous. This has gone on for a long time now. So while vaccine hesitancy is not a disease itself, but is a formal medical and

sociobiological term used to describe the delay in acceptance and refusal of vaccines. That makes sense. The term was solidified by the WHO Sage Working Group on vaccine hesitancy, which was established in 2012. Right. Listen, pull up the statement by the WHO. It should come down here where the WHO says that vaccine hesitancy is a major threat to public health. They might have even been in that first thing you put up. Major threat to public health. And so vaccine hesitancy is basically put forward as a principle that there is top 10 threats to public health if you're hesitant to take a vaccine.

In 2019, the World Health Organization officially named vaccine hesitancy as a one of the top 10 threats to global health. This designation was a landmark moment because it shifted the focus from the vaccines themselves to the behavioral and social factors that prevent people from using them. But... Okay, but I told you about our government covering up...

And this is like in U.S. Senate, Homeland Security Government, and files permanent subcommittee investigations. This is airtight. Our government covered up heart damage with the COVID vaccines because they didn't want to promote vaccine hesitancy. by telling people the facts.

Well, sure. I mean, I think that it's all part of the same thing. It's like, well, if we show this, then it's going to make people weary of vaccines. I mean, in our society, safety comes first. It doesn't matter how good these vaccines are. It doesn't matter what they could possibly do. If they're not safe, they should go.

Well, our safety only comes first to us, and sometimes even then, but it obviously does not come first. doesn't feel like anymore to any of these powers at bay. Well, does safety come first in automobiles? Yes, because you have all these inspections. Does safety come first when you build your house? You can't get your certificate until things are safe and engineering. Does safety come first in other areas?

Yes, except vaccines. Because vaccines have become a religion. They are accepted as articles of faith. This has been going on for 300 years. It's a religious thing. So if you come in and you say something that violates somebody's religious beliefs, you know what they do? If they're nice to you, you know what they do?

They give you the Heisman. They say, I don't want to talk about it. That's what most of my colleagues do. Yeah. I don't want to talk about it. And if you go further, you know what they normally do? Happened to me, obviously. They throw you out.

Yeah. They say, listen, you're anti-religious. You're sacrilegious. Get out. Well, here's the thing. This wouldn't be on so many people's emotional race. radar and truth radar if there wasn't some truth to it. Correct.

Like that to me is undeniable. Like I've always trusted my instincts, right? Sometimes I'm wrong, but over time I hone them. And a lot of times they get very keen for me and I operate well with them. Right. And I assume that's how most people operate. Yes. You mentioned you didn't take the COVID vaccines.

Yeah. I didn't take them either. And according to USA Facts, which takes the tabular data from the CDC, the best estimates are that 19% of us did not take the shots, 19%. Now, 81% took at least one shot, but only 70% took two shots. So only 70% got fully vaccinated. Ah, understood. I'll say this. We had a guy, we had a guy on last week that's got James Lee, and he investigates a lot of, he exposes a lot of corruption, and he exposes a lot of, like, rich people that are just being, like, deviant, you know, type.

of stuff, you know, companies, politicians, all that, you know, he's seeking out, like, he's known for investigations into, like, corruption and fraud. He was working as a consultant for one of these big biotech companies. And he said there was a conference call at one point where, um, where a representative from the company was talking about how they had, everyone had been vaccinated that was going to get vaccinated. They, they kind of figured that. And then there were still a lot of, uh,

vaccinations left. It was a stockpile of vaccinations left. And so that they were going to start to push this idea that you needed a further, like a, because there was extra, right? Not because they thought that people really needed it, but because there was extra. Do you think something like that could be true? Oh, for sure. Do you know that the pharmacies did not have any blanking period after someone got a shot? So. Like what do you mean? There was no timeline between when this should get a second one? Yeah. Well, I mean, you got, the primary series is you get one shot, and then two to four weeks

later, you get a second shot. But after that, the idea is, well, six months or a year, ultimately it was decided that there were going to be annual shots, but the pharmacies didn't mind giving you extra shots. So I had some patients came in, and they were upstanding citizens, and they said, Dr. McCullough, we got our COVID shots. And I was like, oh, boy, you know, hope you. you're okay. They said, yeah, we're fine, but we're going to go on a cruise so we went in and got some extra shots. And it's possible. So can you imagine if I was prescribed a drug for a patient

and they took, I said, take one pill a day? And they said, well, it's such a good pill. I think I'll take 20 or I'll take 50 or I'll take 100. Can imagine me saying, well, sure, just take as many as you want to. We would never do this. And so with vaccines, there is a delusional scheme that the more vaccines, the better. But vaccines have been helpful throughout history. Sure. So in our book, you know, vaccines, mythology, ideology, and reality, there's a reality, for sure. So the measles vaccine, that's a good example. It definitely dropped the case count of measles. But it's not perfect. So if you took the shot, you still could get measles. So we have measles outbreaks.

And on top of that, there's like any drug, there's always risks and benefits. So what's the risks of the measles vaccine? This is important. This is another one that's on the Sonato server, you guys, we just came out with this. We analyzed how many babies died after the measles vaccine, the MMR vaccine since the 1990s. Answer, I think there's over 100 kids, maybe 200 kids died. From the vaccine. It was a combination of vaccines, but the vaccine.

they found him dead in their bassinet. How many people died of measles during that same time? About six or eight? You get the exact numbers if you guys go on the server. So there are risks. That's the point. Nothing is risk-free. Let me give another one.

Right there, what you're saying is, yeah, it's effective. Yeah, it drops the case count. But you could lose your baby with it. Got it. Okay. Now, what about chickenpox? I had chicken pox as a kid, but my kids didn't get chickenpox,

they took the shots. So chickenpox lowers the case count. Terrific. But what's the catch? There's always a catch. That's the point. The catch is that now there's a higher rate of adult shingles if you take the chickenpox vaccine.

So you really just pushing it down the road then? Well, it's a tradeoff. It's a trade off. Who doesn't want chicken pox? First of all, you get out of school for like two or three days. And you get permanent immunity. So there's always a trade-off. So there's an important paper in JAMA recently by V-S-Uvian, V-A-S-E-D-U-V-A-N.

That said, a large number of parents now are not going to get their kids fully vaccinated. They've seen enough of this now. Is that alarming to you or how does that look to you? Well, I think it's going to bring us back to a more appropriate use of vaccines. Now, I'm not against the use of vaccines. I took every vaccine known to man except for the COVID shots. I've taken all kinds of flu shots. My kids took all the vaccines. So I'm not against vaccines. But I think they're excessively used. And where we're going is what's called risk stratification. That is, there has to be some meaningful risk of the disease for you to take the shot.

So let me give an example. If you've had your spleen taken out, we had a car accident, you got taken out or taken out for other reasons. Like my brother-in-law has been taken out. You can die from a pneumocococcal infection, meningococcal infection, or homophilus infection. It's called encapsulator organisms. I feel very strongly, if you've had your spleen taken out, you should get those vaccines. Because it's compelling. It's like you don't have a chance. I've seen some patients go down with these infections. However, if you're young and healthy like you and I, I mean, come on. I mean, we're not, I mean, you're not going to You're not going to go down with the pneumonia.

It's just not going to happen. Let me give another example. This came up recently. A healthy baby born where the mother is negative for hepatitis B, the baby is fine. The baby has zero chance of getting hepatitis B until they get into teenage years and even then they're probably going to be fine. Depends on what choices they make with Ivy Drug Abuse and sexual partners, what have you. It's just not compelling to give them the hepatitis B vaccine. Now, I took it myself when I, you know, went into medical school and I was going to work with blood and what have you.

Yeah. You know, or a paramedic or a police officer. But not every person needs to take the hepatitis B vaccine. I think it's compelling. The highest risk for hepatitis B transmitting it to the baby is in about 20,000 mothers who have active hep B. Most of them are immigrants, by the way, from outside the United States. They come here. they have hep B, they're going to give it to the baby.

And so when that occurs, the mother gets the vaccine, the mother gets a drug called Fasinovir, and the baby gets hepatitis B immunoglobulin and the baby gets. So we have for 20,000 babies out of 3.3 million born, we have a good hepatitis B transmission. It's very effective. It's 90% effective. But it doesn't have to be applied to all 3.3 million. Got it. So recently, recently even Ram Paul said this, others said that, listen, We're overdoing vaccines.

So I think where we're going is risk stratification. One that's going to come up, you're going to hear about it, is actually the human papilloma virus vaccine, HPV. Yeah, I've heard about that. Again, that's sexually transmitted. And, you know, it's given to all children in teenage years. But I can tell you, you know what the most compelling group is that transmits this virus like you cannot believe gay and bisexual men?

anal intercourse, unprotected, watch out, anal carcinoma, penile carcinoma, etc. And oral head and neck cancers. So the bottom line is, you know, HPV vaccine? Yeah, gay or bisexual man? For sure. Everyone? Probably not. Everyone, it's got to be an individual decision.

So we have to get to risk stratification and freedom of choice as opposed to putting it on the government schedule and forcing it into people. The CDC recommends routine HPV vaccinations for pre-teens at 11 or 12 years old, but it can be started as early as age nine with the goal of protecting them before exposure to HPV

as it works best at younger ages. But here's one question to have. At a certain point, wouldn't some of these drug companies or these lower, like if there's a bigger entities out there that are, this cabal of control, wouldn't they, is there more money in them you battling these diseases over time than there is just in one vaccine? You know what I'm saying?

Like wouldn't it then on them tabulating how much money they could make off of a person, wouldn't it be like, oh, well, it's better if we have them battling these two diseases or instead of getting a vaccine early. Does that make sense? No, the question is good. If you're a drug company and you say, I've got two choices, I'm going to make a vaccine. or I'm going to make a drug to treat the disease. You would take the vaccine every time. Because the vaccine, let's say a universal vaccine like influenza,

you're going to give it to 300 million people. That's 300 million doses. Got it. If you get influenza and severe influenza, you'd have a drug vest maybe given to 50,000 people. It's night and day. So then right there, that should be information. us that that that makes it like it makes more sense then if you're like well let me just wait and

see what 50,000 people would have these symptoms or get this it feels like from a public health perspective my view on this is that it should all be about treatment right I mean so you know have you ever gotten influenza test positive ever you've never even gotten it or tested for it I don't have it okay you never have never have have have have you ever taken an influenza vaccine. I don't know. I can tell you that shows you. It's completely irrelevant to you. I've never had influenza and I've never taken the test. I never met anybody that's even said it before. Right. So my point is, why is it recommended for you, me, every human being on earth, including little babies every year? But is the reason why we're not talking about it or anything or know anybody

that has it because that? Well, you don't take the shots. Oh, that's right. But did I once get it when I was a child. No, what I'm saying is it's an annual risk. Oh, I didn't know that. Do you see what I mean? So it's an annual risk. So the point is the fear of infectious diseases is grossly exaggerated to promote vaccine uptake.

Vaccine mythology and ideology has been going on for 300 years. This is medical religion. This is medical. Do you know some doctors will throw a patient out of their office if they don't take a vaccine? Wow. Yeah. Pediatricians will. they'll say, listen, if your kid doesn't make a vaccine, they're out of here.

Oh, yeah, I've seen people fighting about that online. Like, you know, I didn't want my kids to have the vaccines, and this is how they treated us. Can you imagine? Can you imagine I prescribe blood pressure medicines. If you don't take this blood pressure medicine, I'm throwing you out of my office. Yeah. I mean, this is, it's insane. It's a religion, and how the ideology works is like this, that there's always been historically

tremendous fear of infectious diseases and that we're vulnerable. We're vulnerable. But through the brilliance of man, man and vaccines can improve upon God's creation. Man outdoes God with vaccines. This is very important. And because the vaccines aren't perfect, we all have to take them. And because this is such a laudable goal for humanity, if some people are injured or disabled or died of the vaccine, they should take it for the betterment of humanity. They should take it for the team. It's collateral damage and it's acceptable in the eyes of this vaccine ideology. It is a runaway freight train. Look at the front of our book.

Look at the coin on the front of the book. Look at the iconography. That's a boy. Yeah. This is a 22 euro coin issued by the Vatican. That's a boy in the tripartite imagery. Oh, there's a boy getting a vaccine. This coin was issued by the Vatican?

Yeah, issued by a Vatican. But look at this. This is during the pandemic, the boy should be receiving the Eucharist. He should be receiving the body and blood of Jesus Christ. So you're saying that part of... But instead, he's receiving the vaccine. Yes. So you're saying there's a bigger psychology here of playing God.

It's a religion. The point is it's a religion. That's the reason why people can't talk about it. That's the reason why doctors are nuts over this. That's the reason why there are no lectures about side effects from vaccines. No grand rounds. No grand rounds. We can't talk about it.

There are people who, there are people listening to your show. They still can't talk to their relatives about this. Well, now everyone's in a spot where it's like, it feels like a lot of people know that it's bullshit, but you don't want to bring it up to. to people because they've probably had the vaccine and you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.

What did I do when I came here? I did a quick check. Did everybody take the vaccine? Where are we on this? Because people start to get pretty uncomfortable when we talk about this. Yeah. If you have something swimming in your pool,

you don't want to admit it, but you don't have a net, then what, you know what I'm saying? Like it's a little bit alarming because you can't, it's going to be in there. That's the reason why I have, you know, you have the one doctor in the chair right now where I was the first to devise

a method to treat COVID patients to avoid hospitalization and death McCullough Protocol, the most widely used early treatment protocol in the world. It's been credited with saving tens of millions of lives. Let's go.

Sparing hundreds of millions of hospitalizations. Listen, Harvard could have grabbed this. They didn't. I did. And now I've devised the first detoxification protocol of what people should do when they've had the infection multiple times

or they've taken a vaccine. And so... Now, it does it only have to be they only took one vaccine or they have to get at least two vaccines? Listen, whether you take the infection, whether you've had the infection or you've taken the vaccine, you've gotten this spike protein in you. So it matters for virtually everybody. So even if I never took the vaccine, but I got, but I tested that I had antibodies?

Yeah. Okay. You've had some spike protein in you. So we've been studying this. This is McCullough Protocol, base spike protein detoxification, first published in 2023, peer-reviewed literature. And, you know, after working with every. Every drug under the sun, the Biden administration spent a billion dollars in this, they found no drugs.

Turns out three natural products have a huge impact, natokinase, bromelin, and curcumin. Natokinase and bromelin are natural products. Now, we use them in high doses, medicinal doses, but they dissolve the spike protein in the body. They help you clear it out. Curcumin is blocking the inflammatory effects of the spike protein, and they're well-tolerated in high doses. Remember, most prescription drugs are still natural products. They're just in high doses. And so this protocol was published, and then now we've published multiple cases,

and I've experienced in thousands of patients, we reliably bring antibodies to the spike protein down. And when we can measure spike protein directly, that's coming down. And patients get better. It takes a long time. So, you know, it takes probably over a year. I've taken these supplements. And how often should they take them? What do you have?

Do you have? Is that it right there? This is it. So this is the lead product. This is from the wellness company, the ultimate spike detox. And this is high dose, nato-kines, bromelin, and curcumin. We formed a whole company around this. Well, this company is probably one of the greatest success stories out of the pandemic.

It's now a global healthcare company, telemedicine, and nutraceuticals and supplements, emergency kids. We'll never get burned again because now we have treatment kids for pandemics. And I've told people, listen, I don't think. the government's going to save us from the next pandemic, but the wellness company will. And we continue to innovate. People need, in general, they need over a year of this to clear this spike protein out, take a look at it. How do you decide what supplements are safe and effective enough to put in here and what grades? Well, we have a medical board. We had certainly multiple meetings.

We went through dose ranging. Once we got to the product, we had to go through the Federal Trade Commission. So this isn't just some white-labeled thing. No, no. This is the real deal. And so it's All science-backed. And, you know, we didn't, we intentionally did not, we intentionally did not patent this. It's copyrighted mainly for just accountability, but we did not patent it because so many people worldwide need it. Now have fun. Are you on Amazon? Go to Amazon and type in Spike Detox.

I did this before I came. There are dozens and dozens of products. There are dozens. Type in Spike Detox. Have any side effects of it? Yeah. So if you look in the, most of it is ours, but you'll just scroll down. You'll see a zillion different products.

So the bottom line is this tells you people know about the spike protein. All this wouldn't be on Amazon. I agree. Now listen, the doctors are not measuring this in the bloodstream. The doctors are not talking about a spike protein. It's not in New England Journal of Medicine or JAMA, but it's all over Amazon. That should tell you something. It's heapsie hilarious.

Or that there's a fear of it out there and people are capitalizing. on a fear. Yeah. You know, that's a fair point. I mean, that's a fair point. Because I've looked at hair medicine,

like hair scalp things over the years on that you find articles like this will help and they set you up with an article and then like even if you don't even go on the link from the article to the product but then you go find their product and then you realize,

and then I've had things come out like this thing doesn't do anything. It's just a funny. But here's the thing. Natokinase is used by the Japanese as a heart supplement. Oh, I love them. It helps unblock arteries.

So natokinase is beneficial anyway. Bromalin is derived from a pineapple. It's also anti-infective and healthy. Bromlin is actually used as a prescription drug in a form of an ointment that's used in deep burn wounds. And then curcumin is derived from turmeric. That's anti-arthritic. That's a healthy supplement.

So bottom line is, you know, No one's capitalizing because these are three healthy supplements anyway, but we have a compelling case to use them in spike detoxification. How were you able to test that it worked? Well, this is perfect for HHS, Robert F. Kennedy and his team, to do a large prospective, double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trial. Have they done it yet? No.

Have they even called about it? No. What would that trial mean? I even mean 20,000 people in each group. it would probably be a $50 million trial, $100 million trial. For sure, it should be done. I'll be a guinea pig.

This is it. So this is ready to go. A lot of people, as you can tell by Amazon, people don't want to wait. If our government hasn't even started thinking about testing it, people don't want to wait. They're doing it. All government's a pack of shit.

Now remember, anything that actually works has side effects. You ask the question. This is a form of a blood thinner. So people can have more easy bruising. I just tell them somebody on the weight. hear, you know, if they start to get nose bleeding or bleeding when they brush their teeth. No, yeah. So it's a natural product, but it's a blood thinner. The spike protein causes blood clotting. So we have an epidemic of blood clotting. So everybody is prone to this.

I personally took it, take it. I took it this morning, take it on an empty stomach. And, you know, I had measured my spike antibodies, and my spike antibodies, which should be zero, but since I had COVID, at least once proven and probably two other times. My spike antibodies were 2,300, and the published literature suggests under 1,000, you're probably safe. You probably cleared it out, just residual antibodies. I was 2300, my ears are ringing.

I didn't feel well. I went on spike detox. It took about a year, but I've dropped into 900. Amen, let's go. Now, the average person who's taken a vaccine who's got a trouble, blood clot, heart damage, that at 11,000, and we commonly see people over 25,000. So people who are in trouble.

How can people get checked to see what they're at to know if this? Blood test. Super important. Let's go to LabCorp. You can self-order your blood test. You should do it. Yeah. I'm getting the blood work done this week, actually.

You should do it. Go to LabCorp. Okay, so now go to individuals and patients. So go to more on-demand tests. There we go. And it's going to be a COVID-ant antibody test. Keep going. there we go there click on this this is the test it's 69 okay stop here if you if you get a user ID

and password right here and you pay 69 dollars you use your credit card you pay right here you then the orders at lab corp you can go in there get your blood test and you'll know that night your number if you're under a thousand you're safe okay if you're above 5,000 you probably got the spike protein in your bloodstream okay and if you're over 10,000 or above you're in trouble You've got to, and there's about a correlation about 0.8 to 0.9 of the antibody to the actual spike protein. Soon there's going to be a direct spike protein test. And we're working hard with companies to do that. But this is a super useful test.

Do you know that the Mayo Clinic refuses to order this test? Wow. And so does every other major hospital. If you go on and you say, doctor, I want a COVID test. I want to assess my spike exposure. They'll say, I refuse to do it. So LabCorp got so frustrated, they just offer this to the public. And say, pay $69.

You can self-order your COVID test. Good for them. We've published a whole Spike guide on this, how to interpret it. And so, like I told you, the average person who took the shot who's in trouble in a paper by Barham and colleagues is $11,000. So my mother-in-law, who is now 93, she lives with us. She took two Pfizer shots because we had to get her out of Canada, which she was older in pandemic and what have you. She's never had a side effect once. No saw arm, nothing.

She goes, because I don't know what you're making such a big deal about these COVID shots. There's nothing. And I've been watching her carefully. I'm telling you, she has nothing wrong with her from the COVID shots. I said, I can't believe this. So, and I told you, I was 2,300. I didn't take the shots, but I had the illness. So we checked Mama, you know what she was?

200. No wonder she's fine. So the point is, there's probably easily 85% of people who took the shots, they got basically a dud. They got next to nothing. Got it. They have no antibodies. They never got much exposure to spike, and they're fine.

The reading that you're looking for, the number that you're looking for coming back, it's what, spike proteins? It's actually the antibody to the spike protein. Okay, so you're looking for the antibody number to the spike protein. If you're under a thousand, then you're doing fine. If you're 5,000 are up, then you should get checked out. Well, you need to get going. You need to get going, at least on the ultimate spike detox.

Got it. And, you know, once starting the, I've treated thousands of patients. Now, I do have to prescribe some drugs in addition for certain. Now, what does that mean? No, I mean, well, what I mean is if there's heart damage, there's another drug after prescribed called Colchicine. Okay. How do people know if there's heart damage?

Well, then, you know, I've published the kind of the leading paper on this called risk stratification, but in general, it's prompted by symptoms, the EKG and an ultrasound. I just do that in my office. Got it. Any standard doctor would do that. But the point is, some people additionally need prescription drugs. But once people are on the detoxification program, and I think I'm the most experienced doctor in the world

in treating patients with this condition, I've never seen a new blood clot, I've never seen a cardiac arrest, I've never seen a new problem emerge. All the people who are emerging with problems now, oh, I got a blood clot now, oh, I've got an advanced cancer now, oh, I've got some, they have not done the detox.

Got it. So important. It's probably the biggest public health message I can give on this show is, you know, if you just want to play it safe and want some healthy supplements anyway, a lot of people take supplements. They just take it empirically. Take it for a year. And at least a year and extended use, if you have underlying heart disease or risk for blood clots or how many a day? Two capsules, twice a day, empty stomach. Okay.

Best time to take it, I think, is when you get, if you get up at night to use the restroom and your stomach's empty, take it with some water before you go back to bed and just take it on an empty stomach. Got it. a woman yesterday who has a rare genetic condition, but it impairs the nerves. What is it? She was good at parallel parking? That's just an old job.

No, she's actually, she's very bright. She's very successful in her job. She comes in. But her genetic condition, the nerves don't allow the capillaries to open and close correctly. And so she's modeled all over with a pattern called levido reticularis. Doctors and nurses know what I'm talking about. and I saw her walking down the hall because I was getting ready to have her and her husband come in the office. And she just looked so ill.

She looked chronically ill. She's 20 years younger than me. And she said, doctor, I have this genetic condition. And when I took the vaccine, it absolutely ravaged me. And I have intractable headaches. Look at me. She looked so terrible. The condition is actually called Mitchell's disease, if you'll type in Mitchell's disease.

So the point is, but listen to this, when she walked in my office, I did not know what Mitchell's disease was. She came in, I have Mitchell's disease. So what did I do? A smart doctor. I get to a certain point where I said, listen, you know, I have to have you change into a gown because I'm going to get an EKG. While she's changing in the gown, I go on artificial intelligence and I look up Mitchell's disease. In two seconds, I have the answer. In fact, I even have the genetic mutation for Mitchell's disease now known,

which is an SCN-9A mutation, and I came back in the office, and I do the next part, and I said, I said, so you have this rare disease. It's a mutation of the SCN-9A gene that gates voltage into these nerves. She goes, you're the first doctor who's ever identified that.

And I said, you know, it's just, but the point I'm making, is that's the power of artificial intelligence. I could have gotten to it, it would have taken forever. For sure. And I got to it. In fact, before I finished, I ordered the correct genetic test on her, which she's never had before, got her on spike detoxification, ordered the other appropriate labs,

and she literally hugged me. She goes, I have never had anybody even paying any attention to me. I'm absolutely miserable at this, and now I can see a pathway out of this. That's the biggest thing. people want to, yeah, they just want you to hear what's going on with him a lot of times. A couple of questions. I got to get answers to just so we, RFK has been in office for over a year now, right, as Secretary of Health and Human Services. How do you feel like he's done there?

Well, you know, he's a friend. What I'd say is this, is that if we've learned anything, you mentioned trust is low in the government. The government doesn't treat patients. The government's, honestly, you know, not. our caretaker. They're not our doctor. And you probably never asked the question, how is Alex Azar doing? You probably know who he was. He was HHS secretary under Trump. Or how did Bashara do? He was HHS secretary under Biden. You probably never asked that. The only reason why you'd ask about RFK is because you know him and he kind of has a celebrity status. Let me just say constructively

what I would do if I was in his job. I think that's probably a better thing to say. Yeah, I'm not trying to pitch you like saying something negative about it. No, but I'll just tell you what I would do. Now, the difference is I'm a doctor with medical authority. Right. That's very different. There's nobody in Washington who has medical authority. There's nobody in Washington that's ever treated a COVID patient,

that's ever had an important publication on COVID, ever innovated with a treatment protocol or detoxification. There's no one in Washington with medical authority. Medical authority means I am taking charge and I will handle this medical problem. No one. So if I went to Washington, I would be the only one with medical authority. So what would I do on day one? I would have pulled the COVID vaccines off the market.

Just pulled them. Say, sorry, I have medical authority. They're not safe. They're gone. It's the call. You just make the call. It's not a political issue. This is a drug safety issue.

So I pulled the COVID vaccines off the market. The next thing I do is I'd use the power of HHS and the office to do some very important things. Virtually every major medical center and medical school gets funding from HHS, not only through CMS for medical care, but also from the National Institutes of Health and sometimes the CDC.

Every week I'd be having meetings in Washington, saying there's a mandatory meeting, send your dean or your chief medical officer, your chief of medicine, whatever, to Washington, and we're going to have a review of, you know, lessons learned in the pandemic, which hospital had the best treatment protocols, which one didn't, which had the lowest mortality,

which didn't. Vaccine safety, this is what we're seeing with the vaccines, this is the reason why we're pulling them off the market. In fact, you could actually call rapid meetings and say, listen, we're going to go over the data and we want to gain a consensus. Before we tell the public we're pulling them off the market, we want to make sure you've got your buy-in on this.

And use the power of the meeting to, you know, when you call a meeting, and they happen all the time. They're called Bethesda meetings In the last two administrations, they literally haven't had any. But we go to Washington. You have all kinds of experts from academia, from the FDA, CDC, NIH, industry. You have public citizens.

There's an agenda. You raise some issues. You basically vet them. Gaining consensus drive policy. That's the process. So I'd be doing this every week. When it came to diet, for sure I would have done that. I would have had all the Dietetic Society, American Heart Association,

and what I would do in that office is I would get the medical orthodoxy on my side. I wouldn't write policy with just a handful of assistance because there's a million doctors out there. There's a half a million nurse practitioners and PAs. There's 5,600 hospitals, 2,200 acute care hospitals. I mean, come on. The medical industry is too big and is too strong. You can't do anything in Washington without the medical care. community. That's what I would do. And you can make it mandatory. So listen, if you want to get your

CMS funding, your NH funding, you better show up here. And I would do it for topic after topic. Food dies, fluoride. I'd go through childhood vaccines. I'd go through the whole thing and just use Washington as a convening and talk about make America healthy again. If we had somebody with that type of leadership skills and that type of vision, oh my gosh, health care in the United States could be dramatically turned around. Do you think that the lobbies that are there now and the big pharma and the cabal that's out there now, do you think it, what's its end goal for us?

Does it, do you feel like? Well, you know, in our first book, we outlined this biopharmaceutical complex. It's powerful. And it has the medical societies with it. Remember I mentioned the, smoke fest and this great problem with smoking among doctors. Do you know the American Medical Association was fully on board with smoking?

They were getting tobacco lobby money. And it wasn't until 1978 before they have the first pamphlet come out on this? You know, 28 years after the evidence shows cancer, smoking causes lung cancer. After everybody made a buck, huh? Yeah. So here, let's just take vaccines as an example.

Well, you've got the American College of Pediatrics. You've got the American College of Stectuals of Gynaecology, American Medical Association. I mean, this is a freight train. They all are fully in lockstep on these vaccines. And so the lobby is very tight. And they're told, I guarantee, non-physicians in Washington are told, don't you flinch on these vaccines if you do polio's coming back. Right.

And it's going to be on you. Well, I'll tell you a story. This is one reason why this stuff, like, is always been interesting to me is because I grew up in a community where Tulane University, they had their primate testing facility center in our town. Yeah. And it's where they helped develop the polio vaccine, right? And they found out at one point that the vaccine that they created was going to also could cause cervical cancer in women. And they, but they'd already made so much of the vaccine that they still gave it out to women.

You know what I'm saying? Like, so I think I was like literally grew up in this environment where there was always these like weird mysteries and things going on. Lee Harvey Oswald went to the same middle school that I went to, which was kind of wild. So there was just always like this allure in our area of like, I don't know if it's conspiracy because now every conspiracy theory ends up being right about two years later. Well, you probably read the book, right, that Miss Mary. Oh, Dr. Mary's Monkeys?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that took place. You know. But it was just interesting to me that because all. all it heard about was this cures polio.

But then also it helps cause, it can contribute to causing cervical cancer and women. So it just made me think out of the gate, like how reliable is what we're doing? That's something I've always asked. We should, you know, always trust but verify, understand what we're doing now is very, very likely to change in the future.

Do you know most of the drugs I use now didn't even exist when I went to medical school? Wow. So we get rid of old drugs. we use newer, better drugs. You know, we should have constant drug improvement. We should have constant vaccine improvement. We talked about the measles vaccine.

That's a great point. The measles vaccine has not been improved since the 1960s. It's like, what? That's crazy, dude. It's nuts. I mean, there's been no improvement. And one of the reasons why is the 1986 vaccine injury compensation act, which gave immunity to any liability to the companies.

That's where they couldn't face any lawsuits, right? Right. So the companies have no incentives to make better, safer products. And not only not to make better ones, but to save probably money on whatever they're currently manufacturing anyway, because that's the way that business works a lot of times. Why do you think that no politician wants to tackle big pharma for real, you know? It's always this thing that's kicked around, but it's, I mean, it's, it's, but no one really does anything.

Well, remember, they don't want to touch health care. Remember, no politician wants to touch Medicare, Medicaid, drug, drug, companies, big pharma vaccines, why don't they want to touch health care? The reason being is that health care is about 17% of the gross domestic national product. We spend more on GDP in health care in any other country. It's big business. Do you know that hospitals are the leading employer in most middle and smaller towns? Health care is the leading employer of single mothers? Health care is so big. We spend so much money taking care of each other.

It's literally, it's a behem off. And people are afraid to touch it because it's such a political hot potato. You do anything that looks like you're anti-health care, anti-vaccine, anti-drug company, anti-norses or anti-doctors, you're going down. You're not getting reelected. I mean, and if you're a regular person, it's like you won't even work. If 17% of our GDP is going through that canal, it's like a lot of people would be afraid to speak up because they wouldn't even be able to work. Oh, I'm wrong. It's 18.5.

healthcare spending accounting for about 18.5% US GDP in 2025. If we can't change it, how do you avoid Big Pharma do you feel like? You know, I've been impressed in the last six years, and I'm constantly collaborating, and I've always done this my entire life. So I'm literally out of the medical orthodoxy now. I used to, you know, I was the named endowed professor at lecture in Harvard in 2019. Harvard hasn't invited me back. I was a full professor of medicine

where I was in Dallas, Texas. So I'm now actually working with naturopathic and holistic and other doctors. And one of them is particularly impressed me where he said, listen, he said, it's nature first, drugs last.

So try to find natural solutions. And if you're willing to do this, that means you probably will be taking more supplements or vitamins than you normally would. It probably means you'll pay more attention to diet and exercise than you normally would, but you are intentionally not going to have a reliance on drugs. Yeah. Yeah, and have some responsibility for ourselves, yeah.

I mean, it almost did, I get to the point in my life where it feels gross even. Like, I mean, recreational drugs now, that's different. But if I just have to take a pill for something or it just feels so cringe to me now. even opening a pill bottle, it just feels like it has such a sour taste in the world, I think, for a lot of people these days. But it also saves people's lives. There's also a lot of great medicines out there. Well, let me ask you this.

What percent of people make it to age 80 perfectly healthy without relying on any drugs? Probably none. About 10 percent. It's possible. Okay. It's possible. I'm not one of them. I'm 63 years old.

I've had high blood pressure since age 25. I mean, life-threatening high blood pressure. I can't live without taking a blood pressure pill every day. So I'm not going to make it. This helps. I'm not going to make it. Yeah, well, I take some natural products as well. But the point is, I have people come in my office saying, Doc, I don't want to take any medicines.

I had something like that yesterday. He's already had a heart attack. He has stents in his coronary arteries. I said, well, we're going to do the best we can't with the natural products. But, you know, I got to tell you, if I was you, I would take the prescription drugs. A lot of prescription drugs are natural anyway, and they're just in purified form.

Like aspirin is, it's over the counter, but it's a drug. It's derived from the bark of birch trees. Hydroxychloricine, which we used in COVID, but we used for malaria and for rheumatoid arthritis, that's derived from the bark of a Chinchona tree. Ivermectin is derived from the soil in Japan. It's produced by another organism. Why, those two drugs specifically, hydrochloroquine and ivermectin got such a bad rap.

If you read Bobby Kennedy's book about Dr. Fauci, it kind of lays out how some of that was sort of like preplanned, how it was, how it was lobbied against in certain environments. It was taken off the shelves. When you look back on those two medicines, what are your thoughts about them? You know, I think that those who really, really were involved in pandemic planning, even in the Johns Hopkins 2017 sparse pandemic training exercise, there was a drug proposed and it was going to generate confusion. And in the planning exercise, they kill the drug to feature the vaccine. That was in 2017 in the open. I think it was essentially in people's minds to say, listen, don't allow any drugs to play a role here. We want to feature mass vaccination as the principle.

So hydroxychloroquine killed in the first year. Second year, Ivermectin killed. We had IV monoclonal antibodies, high-tech operation warp speed. They were safe and effective. I used them like crazy. They were taken off the market rapidly, six in a row taken off the market. Colchicine, super useful. again, natural product, but it's a prescription drug.

It was absolutely suppressed and crushed. Cortical steroids were great confusion over those. They were suppressed. Vitamin D crushed. Eric Naputey, who ran a company, the Federal Trade Commission sued him and his company personally. Nasal sprays and gargles, they worked very well in reducing the viral burden. Nate Jones at Clear personally, and his company was sued by the Federal Trade Commission.

He was crushed. For what? What was he crushed for? He was crushed for proposing that we could use them in the pandemic. People forget so quick. Remember, have you mentioned anything? Everybody was against you. It could be your neighbor.

It was like the news channels, this guy disagrees. Except the vaccine. You weren't crushed if you said the vaccine's the answer. Oh, for sure. But it's interesting. That was in the minds of people. So nasal sprays and gargles, vitamin D, other forms. of nutraceuticals, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, monoclonal antibodies,

culchicin, cortic steroids. The entire McCullough protocol was crushed. It didn't matter if it was cheap, generic, or expensive, high-tech. That told you there was some type of delusion about the vaccine being the only approach. Remember Paxlovid, the oral drug that comes in, comes in two years into the pandemic. In the first year, all we really had was McCullough Protocol on hydroxychloroquine. The second year we really have McCullough Protocol and Ivermectin. So it got so bad the FDA put out, you know, flagrantly false information about Ivermectin on its website and on Twitter all over. Misleading information. The FDA is sued by three doctors. And this goes through court proceedings and finally the FDA says, uh, we'll take down our false information. Why is our

FDA putting out false information on ivermectin it was hurting people i'm telling you as a doctor and again i have the authority to make this call i've used it i've looked at all the clinical trials i understand clinical trials very well i'm telling you ivermectin is safe and effective i mean i've done a lot of drugs of the years i'd do a little probably um was there anybody who was immune to like any genetics or demographics or cultures that were immune to COVID-19? There were a few papers indicating that children were largely immune, that they had a lot of cross-exposure with other coronaviruses, almost no serious cases in children.

There was an occasional child with cystic fibrosis or some problem who got really sick, but children largely immune. School teachers, because they have so much, there was no significant spread of serious illness from children to the school teachers. But no, was there any, like, was there any like a Norwegian person couldn't get it? Or was there like somebody from Zimbabwe? Like was there any like a...

There's one adult group. You're going to laugh, but there's one adult group. No specific ethnicity or culture, but you're going to laugh smokers. Smokers couldn't get it? They got it very mild cases. And they don't get long COVID. Hmm.

You know why? Why? Because smokers maintain a level of nicotine in the bloodstream. They actually smoke frequently enough. Blood nicotine blocks the spike protein as it's interfacing with a nicotinic acetycholine receptor. Smoking blocks the spike protein.

It's amazing. I thought smokers were going to go down. Well, who knows now then, all those years of all those smoking advertisements ended up probably saving people's lives 40 years later. Oh, my God. Well, you know what? We use a nicotine patch, 7 milligram patch.

even in non-smokers to help them through long COVID. We use it in addition to the McCullough Protocol. I've seen people recommend that people should just be on nicotine of like take a nicotine pass. Do you think that's a good idea? It's on a regular basis or is that just? I think if they have long COVID, I recommend it to a patient yesterday. If they have long COVID symptoms, nicotine, don't forget, is a nootropic.

A nootropic is a drug that does make the brain function more effectively. It's a methyl xanthine. It's related to caffeine. Caffeine does the same thing as a nootropic. So some people use nicotine little packets or whatever. I grew up in Texas, so there were kids where dips nuffin. Oh, yeah, we should chew that plug tobacco. Right.

My dad was a chain smoker. But nicotine itself is addictive, but it's not harmful to the human body. And so is, by the way, caffeine's addictive, but it's not harmful to human body. What's harmful is the tars that's in tobacco and smoke. So you might even use the dip snuff that's related to oral cancer. But now the purified forms of nicotine, my understanding is that they're safe. The nicotine patches are perfectly safe. And there you go.

Nicotine is a cognitive enhancer. Right before we started, I heard you say that the past like six years have been very exciting in your life, right? Because it seems like, does it feel like now that you have more of a sense of purpose that you've kind of been put like at the pinnacle of this, like being somebody to raise their hand about, hey, is this safe for us? Like, because you're, so often people look back like, you look like at movies that, that, like, champion a certain person. And at first, that person was ridiculed and ostracized, you know?

That's always the story. But it's so crazy. And then at the end, they're the champion. And we loud them as being like, thank God, they brave the rapids and they did this. But then we'll see somebody in our present lives who are trying to. to do the same thing. And whether they're right or wrong, sometimes, it's like, I'm always like,

that person's trying to do something different, right? Like, that person is speaking against the grain. How, don't you think of all the movies that we've seen where it's like, that's the beginning of the story? So I know that like the last six years of your life have been wild. You said that.

What did you mean when you said that? And if you just felt a lot more of a sense of purpose, do you feel more support now than you did in the beginning. Tell me, tell me some of that before we get you out of here, and thank you so much. The last six years of my life called me to essentially adopt an entirely new area of medicine,

which is infectious diseases, and specifically the pandemic and everything about it, but is also, in a sense, thrust me into the public limelight as a figure. And you'll be the first one to tell people, I didn't ask to come on your show.

No, no, not at all. We were excited. I didn't ask to go on Joe Rogan and I didn't ask to go testify in the U.S. Senate. I'm being called to play a role in this enormous controversy that's unfolded in the world. And sadly, people did die of the infection

and even more people have died of the vaccine now. And we still haven't seen this whole story unfold. There seems to be a group think a madness that we saw evolve regarding fear, masks, lockdowns, hand sanitizer, vaccines. We don't know what's coming next, but I can tell you this infectious groupthink. It does occur among doctors and nurses and health care professionals. I think they're very susceptible to this. Something has happened in the human mind, and we need to have a lot more discussion on this.

We have to be able to call meetings and have people come together. If our government can do anything, they just have to bring together the orthodoxy, those who are the innovators and the thinkers outside. Remember in the time of a controversy and a crisis, the answer never comes from within the establishment. Never, never. Previously, the establishment for centuries and centuries was the church. And when there's a crisis, the church didn't provide a solution. You can tell governments all over the world did not provide a solution to the pandemic. But individuals did.

Unfortunately, a wellness company, we got like-minded people. We formed an entire company. We've been very successful. But here we are. So I must have been called to play a role in this time of great controversy. It's been so great to be on your show. Yeah, Dr. McCullough, thank you so much. And thank you so much for just being brave enough to speak up and to think out loud.

Like, that's what we, you know, it's like, so many times during this conversation, I've just realized, like, how we slowly just get, like, molded into the, like, kind of folded into the batter. We don't even realize it, you know? So, yeah, thank you so much for joining us today. Yep, I'm going to grab something from the wellness company. And, yeah, I'd love to chat again sometime and see how things are going. All right. Thanks for having me.