This Past Weekend - #676 - Billy Strings

Starting point is 00:00:00 Today's guest is a three-time Grammy award-winning musician and songwriter. His new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is out August 28th, and he's on tour the rest of the year. You've got to go see him. If you can, you've got to see him live. We filmed this up in Grand Rapids, Michigan at Mackinac Harvest Studios. We want to thank Michael and his team over there for the hospitality. It was second to none. And so was this conversation.

Starting point is 00:00:27 This is one of my favorite, one of my favorite chats ever. So grateful for his time, today's guest is Mr. Billy Strings. Dude, good to see you, man. Yeah, you too. It's awesome, bro. Yeah, thanks for coming through with the old stomping grounds, man. This is it, Grand Rapids. Yeah, glad to have you in Michigan.

Starting point is 00:01:04 I grew up like, I don't know, half hour, 40 minutes away from here over in I own you, and me were. But yeah, Grand Rapids, we used to come over here a bunch when I was a team. teenager and party and it's a good good city would you guys come like on a like a saturday night would like your proms be here like was it like that kind of place or was it like was this like going to the city oh yeah yeah yeah i never went to prom um you didn't no i actually didn't want to yeah yeah i don't know were you like one of the kind of like anti like like because there is something about prom that's kind of like establishment i think especially

Starting point is 00:01:43 when you're in high school kind of? Yeah, yeah, it just wasn't my vibe. And I had a girlfriend at the time and really pissed her off that I didn't want to go. I think she ended up going with like Dylan Youngstrom or something. Nuh. Yeah. Dylan freaking Youngstrom?

Starting point is 00:01:55 Yeah. What the heck, dude? Either way. Bro, I was in band with him, dude. He couldn't even make first chair. I know. Yeah. Fuck.

Starting point is 00:02:04 That's crazy, dude. Yeah, she was pissed. But understandably so. I was like, what kind of, like, what an asshole thing? thing like, no, I'm not going to go. Like, whatever. Later on, I'm like, man, I was a real dick. But what was the reasoning behind it?

Starting point is 00:02:21 You don't seem like a guy that doesn't have reasoning kind of behind this. Prong? I just don't want to go dress up and I don't really dance and they're not going to be playing good music anyways. And just, I don't know. Yeah. It's kind of like seemed like not my scene, you know.

Starting point is 00:02:37 Yeah, I think it's hard to go from kind of like picking to the window, to the wall, you know, to the sweat comes off. Definitely would have been what they were playing. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of. It's kind of crazy that that's the music that we, like, feed the kids, like, from the window to the wall to the sweat comes off the balls or whatever. I remember that was always on, like, Need for Speed back in the day, the video game.

Starting point is 00:02:58 And, yeah, it's crazy how nostalgic that music is now, like, all that, like, Rick Ross and Young GZ and stuff like that. It's, like, you hear that, and it brings you right back to, like, those parties. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, there was just something about, like, all those young parties, dude, when you would show up at a party, bro, and, like, somebody had, like, a fence on the side of the house, you would open the fence and go back into the party or go into the house party. And somebody's just parents were, unfortunately, out of town.

Starting point is 00:03:28 Like, all they'd done is, like, driven to see your mom's sister, like, two towns over, and they had no idea that their insurance was at risk. Yeah, around here, I mean, I think everywhere kids are partying, but around here, it's, there's nothing better to do, you know? Yeah. So yeah, we always just, it's all, that's all that life was about is like, where's the party at? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:48 Yeah. Dude, and then there's, some nights you would just drive around and look for a party. And for like four hours and people would just make up parties. Dude, I would always make up parties. I would, like, seven miles out that way and people would fucking drive out there. And we would just sit there like yarning things or whatever, like in the parking lot and just die laughing, just knowing that like everybody was headed out to some invisible fiesta.

Starting point is 00:04:10 Yeah. Man, I miss those days, though. Like, I look back on it now and everybody, like, pulls all their cars into a field and burning pallets and just, like, you know, somebody's got a keg. And it, like, around here, it always ended up in a fight at the end of the night. It would be, like, once people got drunk enough, and then somebody finally would, it would pop off. And then it would, like, the whole place would just erupt and everybody would be fighting. Yeah. That happened all the time.

Starting point is 00:04:41 Oh, yeah, dude. Things have to end either, like, in a fight or dessert, I feel like. Like, that's kind of the American way. Dude, our shit was somebody would always, some fucking, some little, like, summer school junkie would throw a, like, a WD40 bottle into the fire. Oh, yeah, that's a good move. And then it would just be, it would be, like, 30 seconds of, like, Vietnam. It would be, like, it would be, like, watching Hacksaw Ridge, like, really fast, you know? And that was always kind of how it went.

Starting point is 00:05:14 Did you guys have some people in town? Did you guys have any characters in town that were like sort of like local celebrities in the sense? Like that was like the guy in town that was like this thing or something? Yeah, a lot of those different cats and for different reasons, you know, one of my dear friends, Darren Page, he's no longer with us. But he was like super popular, you know, good looking dude. I think he was like on the football team and everything and everybody loved him, you know, and he got into like drugs and shit and it sort of drug him down. It was weird to see because like, you know, it was kind of like the kids that were from a more

Starting point is 00:05:55 stable family maybe would go down the wrong path and they wouldn't necessarily know how to handle it where I come from like a family that was like full of drugs and I've always been real careful, you know, because I saw it. But I think kids that were more like sheltered or something, sometimes those are the kids that would like end up overdosing or, you know, going to prison or just taking it way too far. Yeah. Yeah, they get loose. It's like suddenly like they had no cookies and suddenly they just wander in a damn, you know. Yeah. They just wander like in the kevler's tree or whatever, you know. And then it's in their gooning, bro. Yeah. And then there was a folks that were, you know, famous for other reasons. There was this guy, one of my best friends ever. He's also dead

Starting point is 00:06:41 from an overdose. Kevin Clayton. One of the craziest motherfuckers I've ever known in my life, dude. Just absolutely nuts and hilarious. And would... What, like, how was he funny? He was just funny, man. He was always like, you know, just trying to get high. And he would go to, like, jail or something. And, and get out and go back to the same old shit. And he, like, you know, he was just a fun person to party with. He was nuts. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:14 He was always like, come on, bro. Let me get 50 bucks. I want to go boot a coup, you know. And he was, like, one of the first people I ever smoked with and stuff. Budakut? Yeah, that means, like, bang an oxy. Oh, dang. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:28 I thought I meant go down on somebody. Come on, bro. Let me get 50 bucks. I want to boot a coup. And he was a fucking nuts, dude. One time we were over at my mom's house, and it was when that game skate had just came out on Xbox, the first skate.

Starting point is 00:07:48 And it was just like me and Kevin and my brother and another friend of mine. And I wasn't drinking. I was just, I didn't feel like it that night. I was just hanging out. I just wanted to play my video game. And so I got this brand new Xbox, and I'm sitting there playing. And fucking Kevin and my brother, they got this.

Starting point is 00:08:11 For some reason, they had a Mountain Dew bottle full of Southern comfort and like a bunch of other shit. But they were drinking this full two-liter of fucking Soco. Don't ask me why it was in a two-liter bottle, but it was. And then so as the night went on, they got more and more hammered. And Kevin come up to me and I'm sitting on the couch and he put his arm around my neck and he kind of put me in a headlock. And I was like, dude, stop.

Starting point is 00:08:33 Like, I'm not in the mood, you know. Yeah. I hate it when people do that. Yeah. Sometimes I don't, like, if it's around the holidays or something, and we're going to get something afterwards, but if they're just doing it for no reason, I don't like it. Anyway, go on.

Starting point is 00:08:42 But, yeah, he was all drunk and, you know, he put me in a headlock like this, and I'm like, dude, stop, you know, I'm not in the mood. And he fucking squeezed harder. So I'm like, dude, stop. And then I'm like, fuck it. I just start hitting him. And I'm hitting him like this,

Starting point is 00:08:57 and we kind of break up. And then, like, I'm sitting there on the couch, and he kind of tries to go at me and my brother is like right there. He's like, that's my little brother. You're not going to fuck with him. And Kevin tries to get up off the couch. Every time Kevin got up, my brother grabbed him by the face and sat him back down.

Starting point is 00:09:14 So then Kevin swung at my brother. And they started fighting. And they were going from one end of the house to the other. And I was moving furniture and everything. I was like, you know, because they're going to tear my mom's house up. Oh, yeah, yeah. When a bad fight happened, you've got to get the shift robe out of there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:31 That's the first. Well, you've got to move that dinner table. All that. And then they'd go, I'd move that, and then they'd go to another room. Anyways, they knocked my Xbox clean over. Those little AV cables stuck right in the TV and broke off. You know, I'm like, damn, I can't play my game anymore. So they ended up, Kevin ended up on top of my brother like this and just hitting him. And I watched my brother's eyes closed and his head just started.

Starting point is 00:09:54 I'm like, dude, he's done. I'm like, he's done. He's knocked out and he kept hitting him. And so I just picked up this full 22-ounce steel reserve and I hit Kevin in the head. and I knocked him and the bottle didn't break. It just went, thunk. And then he's going, mm-hmm,

Starting point is 00:10:09 and then they're both sitting there laying there, knocked out on top of each other. And my brother woke up and he said, what did you do? You killed him. And then, did you think he killed him? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:10:22 I heard him. He was snoring and grunting. And then, yeah. And then so my brother woke up. He was like, you fucking killed him. and I'm like, dude, this is crazy.

Starting point is 00:10:35 And then Kevin woke up and he's all disoriented. And he's like, he's like, what the fuck? He's like, what the fuck was I doing? And then he sees my brother and he's like, I was kicking your ass. And they just went right back at it. Dude, I got the hell out of there. I was like, you guys can fucking kill each other. I don't care.

Starting point is 00:10:51 So one of my friends picked me up. We went down to over to my friend Benji's house or whatever. But then Kevin, he fucking left my house that night from my mom. place in Muir all the way to his place out on like stage road or something or nickel plate. I can't remember. But it was a long-ass walk, seven miles in the blizzard. And he fucking, he walked all the way there and one of his shoes and one of my brother's shoes. And then, and he called me. I, you know, I got to where I was and I went to sleep. And then five o'clock in the morning I got a call from Kevin. And then he just says, I'm like, fuck, answer it. It was his

Starting point is 00:11:27 dad's home phone. Hello? And he just says, wait until I find you. You little bitch, I'm going to beat your head into an oblivion. And he hung up. Like, God damn it. Now Kevin's going to beat me up. And then the next... He holds a grudge, huh? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:40 He was nuts, dude. And then the next morning, he called me. He said, bro, I'm sorry. Let's go skate. And then I met him down at the skate spot. And he had a big old fucking goose egg like that sticking off his bald-ass head. Because he just had his head shade because he just went to boot camp. Oh, shit.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Like, was it big? Like, sometimes people get it in the head. And then it looks like they're, like, growing another head. It was like a cartoon shit. It was like a, you know, big. fucking goofsag right there. You know, like one of them, I don't know, on Looney Tunes or something.

Starting point is 00:12:07 Oh yeah, dude, or like that power slap. You ever seen that power slap thing? Oh my. Why do people do that, dude? Have you been to one? Oh yeah, I've been there, dude. I've been there. It's, it's like, it's, I mean, it's.

Starting point is 00:12:19 To me, that just seems so, like. Dude, the craziest part of it to me. Well, first of all, one time this guy had this big, like, he'd almost like sprouted another head kind of like. Oh, yeah. Like he was looking like he was going to be on Abby and Brum. Brittany, you know, or like some like, you know, like a conjoined twins TLC type of thing, you know. And then somebody, and then he, yeah, look like he was like sprouting another head.

Starting point is 00:12:41 And somebody had drawn another face on this big thing that was growing up. So that was pretty dope. Dude, one time I saw a guy after the fights, he was in the carpool line. I'm like, dude, you just, you were just like slapping like, like, I don't know if you're safe to just get into an Uber or whatever, you know. Yeah. bananas, dude. But those people really love it.

Starting point is 00:13:04 I think the thing about it is, like, this is one thing I learn about some sports. We may look at it like it seems insane, but it's just if somebody likes it. Yeah. There's that new one where it's like people from Tonga or whatever or people from Hawaii are just running at each other and running right into each other.

Starting point is 00:13:23 Have you seen that one? Dude, you know what I'm talking about, Trevin? Yeah, it's just like, it's kind of like speed dating, I guess. Well, it's like, it's like, well, it kind of reminds me of like jousting, I guess, right? Yeah, I mean. New sport unlocked. Yeah, this is what it is.

Starting point is 00:13:44 Oh, my God, he's like Ram Man from Master of the Universe. Yeah, yeah. Oh, dude. This is the sport. I mean, that's like them Rams, them big goats when they head butt each other. Yeah. That's what these boys are doing. And it's like, bro, and they have women doing it too.

Starting point is 00:14:03 But this is just, what I started to realize was like, to the competitors, it's a sport. So it's like, that's where I kind of started to meet sports. It's like some things I'm like, ah. Because at first for UFC, I was like some of this. I don't know if I like, but now it's my favorite because I realize those people, they just, it's their thing. Well, yeah. I mean, and I feel like there's at least, you can defend yourself. You're not just sitting there being like, okay, hit me as hard as you can.

Starting point is 00:14:29 getting like brain injuries, you know. Or what's that like CTE or whatever? Yeah, CTE, everybody's got it, I guess, or some people haven't. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, no, I mean, I like UFC. I think it's just, it's a, it's like an ancient,

Starting point is 00:14:44 I mean, combat is, you know, nature's violent, I think. And it's like hand-to-hand combat is like one of the oldest things there is. It's the most like, you know, kind of like natural thing you can do at sometimes. even though, you know, I'm not like all about violence or whatever, but I'm just saying like, No, it's human. It's a great sport, you know. It's part of history. It's kind of like, yeah, what's more sport than two men like, you know, or women or just two people like going after each other and trying to kick each other's ass, you know?

Starting point is 00:15:16 Yeah, it says here, wrestling is generally considered the oldest hand-to-hand combat sport. Grappling is a near universal human practice and predates written history. the earliest surviving depictions of organized wrestling date to ancient Egypt around 2000. I reckon it's sort of like them gladiators or something, you know. Oh yeah, bro. Like a modern day version of that. Yeah, dude. And then, you know, it's not always, I mean, these people get hurt.

Starting point is 00:15:41 And sometimes, you know, there's crazy bloody brawls like, you know, Forrest Griffin, Stefan Bonner kind of fights. But then there's like, I saw you at the paddy fight on TV. They showed you a little bit. I was watching that. Oh, you were? Yeah, you like choked that guy out in like minutes. Everybody's okay.

Starting point is 00:15:57 Yeah. You know. Yeah, that was quick. That was just like Kevin Clayton trying to do it to you on that couch, man. We've all got our own like, you know what I'm saying? We all have like our own moment of attachment to little things, dude. But no, dude, the craziest thing about the Patty thing was. So usually the fighters come into the ring.

Starting point is 00:16:15 They have about a one minute inch or like probably a 30 second walk. And then there's like 30 seconds by the cage where they're checking them to make sure that they don't have any knives or whatever. and then they let them go in. Yeah. But for Patty, they had to go, I believe, anyway, they had to go to a commercial break for Paramount. So he just had like three minutes in the ring with his music. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:36 And I'd never seen that before. So he just starts like just doing the, he's got the whole place doing the baddie daddy. Yeah. And the place just, it turned into like kind of a rave. Oh, yeah. That was the energy it needed. So by the time his fight started in a way,

Starting point is 00:16:52 I think even if you were a fan, of Benoit Saint-Denie, you were suddenly a Patty fan just because you'd been doing his move. Yeah, and he's vibing. Also, man, that is such a, what a, what a host, like to just be in that sort of mindset before, like, you know you're going to fight, just to be, like, dancing and happy and hyped. Like, you know, back when I was in high school or whatever

Starting point is 00:17:15 and I was getting into fights, it was always a lot better if it just popped off all of a sudden and I wasn't expecting it. The couple times where I was like, okay, meet me down here. and we're driving down there and I know I'm going to get in a fight soon. That was like the worst, like the adrenaline and just, it was like, you know, it's like terrifying. Yeah. Because you know you're going to get into it soon.

Starting point is 00:17:35 Yeah, you're building up. It's all this extra energy and then you're like, yeah, people are giving you strategy or whatever. It all goes away once you get hit in the face. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, some guy in a wheelchair kept giving me strategy at a fight and I'm like, that's fine, dude. But it's like, you know what I'm saying? I'm happy to listen to you.

Starting point is 00:17:51 But now it's just like it was just too much at that moment. And I was just like, God, this seems like not the best omen. You know, my brother, dude, I was watching a fight with him. Who's that guy? Oh, I don't, I shouldn't say this. He'll kick my ass. Yeah, I don't know. We can not say it.

Starting point is 00:18:07 My brother said, like, that Cosmott guy or whatever. Oh, Hamzakimai. Yeah. I was watching a fight with him. My brother's like, that motherfucker looks like the nutcracker. I was like, holy shit, dude. Bring it up. That's pretty badass.

Starting point is 00:18:23 Oh, wait. Wait, you know, I think it's Islam maybe looks a little. Let me see. Oh, I think he has a nutcracker type of beard. Yeah. Sean Strickland will protect us, dude, if things get bad. But he does, that is kind of a nutcracker type of beard. Dude, you were talking about, you were talking about,

Starting point is 00:18:44 oh, what happened to Kevin Clayton? He OD'd. He was a, you know, he struggled a lot with substance abuse. He was into heroin and all. sort of shit. Man, around that time, it was like, you know, meth was really kind of tearing everything up. There was a big epidemic, really. And then that oxycotton, too.

Starting point is 00:19:06 Everybody was robbing each other's grandmas and shit and, you know, their own family members and stuff just to get them pills. And yeah, Kevin, he got into that stuff real bad. And I remember he was texting me too and sending me messages online, rather, and saying, man, he knew it was coming. He was like, I'm losing control. And I was like, bro, you got to, you're the only one that can put your hands on the wheel and steer yourself out of this, you know, and he's like, I can't, you know. And not much longer after that.

Starting point is 00:19:36 I heard that he OD. He just, his stepmom found him in the bathroom, like, foaming at the mouth and shit. And it was terrible, man. But he was also, man, he was a great skateboarder. He was just fearless. He would fling himself down these huge stair sets and not give a fuck if he got hurt. He was just one of the nuttyest people. I ever met. And like, I remember he got out of prison for like a couple years and he grabbed my

Starting point is 00:19:59 my skateboard and did like a switch hard flip first try. It's like you haven't skated in like years and you just did a switch hard flip first try. Like what you know he's just he's crazy man. Everybody around Ionia that grew up in those years like he's sort of a legend. You know him? Oh yeah. Dude, there's something amazing about being like a local legend dude. Like we had a white guy that could dance in our area And people And you knew his name for like 40 miles dude And it was legendary dude

Starting point is 00:20:30 This guy West I'm not gonna say his last thing Just to protect his anonymity Because But yeah dude He was just like He was a legend When you were growing up

Starting point is 00:20:39 That's all you'd want to be And like you may go to one high school football game And he would come out with the band And he was like the white guy And they gave him like this magic stick You know like this like Baton dude Yeah yeah baton dude

Starting point is 00:20:50 But it was like the king baton. It wasn't like the one that like there was always that one girl in band who threw it up in the air. And she had on like there's really thick glasses. You were like that bitch is going to fucking, you know what I'm saying? That thing's going to take somebody's fucking wig off, you know? But he had like the biggest batonny would come out and he would just take it to another level, bro. And it was like, I don't know, you need heroes like that. You need like local legends.

Starting point is 00:21:15 You need like, like, yeah, you need legends like that just to build hype to be like, I want to be like that or just create stories in town that was always the best dude yeah we had uh oh there's all those smoothies let's bring them in and we can do a cheers actually to kevin man hell yeah that's the greenest one they had oh yeah thank you that's grand rapids green man hell yeah thanks dude yeah to a toast man yeah to kevin bro kevin clayton bro yeah yeah yeah Dude, we had, I'm trying to think, oh, I remember they had a guy in our town who was probably, we're kids, he was probably like 30. And he would ride on, he had a bicycle, but it had a baby seat on the back. Right? And it was empty. And he was always riding around. And later on, I found out he was, he had like some mentally irregularities or whatever.

Starting point is 00:22:14 But he, when we were a kid, somebody said that he was, he had married a man and that his husband, he had married a very small man and his husband had passed away. And so he'd ride around like just on this bike with this baby seat on the back and that's where his husband used to sit. And so we were kids, it was just this lore. And it was like, oh man, that's a gay, like a gay gentleman that lost his husband or whatever. And it was like this kind of like,

Starting point is 00:22:37 kind of romantic, sad sort of thing. And he would kind of pull up and he'd always be in the distance of like all the ball games and everything. Whoa. He'd just be in the distance. He'd be like 40 yards away from everything. In fact, if he had a memoir,

Starting point is 00:22:50 I'd call it 40 yards away from everything. Wow. And he would kind of say, sit over there and people would be like, dude, his husband passed away. Years later, we finally was kind of like a mentally, like a guy who had like some mental issues or whatever and his mom had gotten him a bike and she just got him a bike that still had a babysit on it. But when you're a kid, you don't know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:23:07 There's just like everything can have a little bit of magic in it, you know? Oh, yeah. And like it's like so exciting. You ever hear about this guy called Mole Man? Mole man? He's in like Pennsylvania or something. No, I never seen him. What's you know him?

Starting point is 00:23:19 No, I don't know him, but dude, it's like this cat. he's like, lived with his parents, and he just has been collecting, like, I don't know, stuff forever. And he's been building these, like, structures out in his mom's, like, backyard. Like, in the, there's, like, a documentary about him. And he's, like, built these tunnels and, like, all these, like, little house structures and stuff. And he just lives out there. And so I don't remember how long, I don't know how long ago the documentary was made. But in the film, they were kind of worried about, like, what was going to happen to this cat

Starting point is 00:23:53 when his mom passes away and is somebody going to take his property or how is he going to keep doing this? Oh, because he's the inheritance. Yeah, like, man, he's a wild cat. You ought to watch this film. Mole man. Mole man, dude. He's, you know, that's a local legend right there around his area for sure.

Starting point is 00:24:11 Everybody's got to know about the mole man. Dude, mole man. Let me see another gander at him. Oh, hell yeah. Oh, yeah. He kind of has, he looks like he took a hit off a six. cigarette forever. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:24:28 Fuck yeah, Moleman. That would probably be an interesting person maybe to go talk to too. Yeah, dude. You should try to link up with Moleman and see what he's all about. But he's built like several houses. What? Just in the backyard, like, and he'll just go, say somebody's like tearing down their house.

Starting point is 00:24:46 He'll go and grab like some of the windowsills and some of the old drywall and shit. And he'll take it over to his place. And he just stacks everything up. I don't even think it's like nailed together. See, it's just, it's just fucking all stacked up. Yeah. Damn, that's just figuring it out. Yeah, he's a, I guess ever since he was a little kid, he's just like building stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:25:06 It looks like one sneeze that fucking remodel that thing, though. You know what I'm saying? Dude, one afternoon of allergies, he's going to be living in a studio. That's wild looking, though. But just like, it almost is like, dude, I was just going to say it's almost like a beaver. like just collecting things. Like a bird that makes a nest. When you see some of these bird nests, they go in there and there's like all these little things that the bird is found from around the community that they just put in there.

Starting point is 00:25:33 Like at my house out the back window, there's a lot of like wildlife. We have this little pond. And so there's ducks and geese and they're always getting into it. And groundhogs. And we got this little muskrat that swims across. He's always got a big piece of grass in his mouth and he swims across the pond. He's cool as hell. But yesterday I was hanging out with my dad playing guitars,

Starting point is 00:25:53 and we saw two of them fucking affiliated woodpeckers flying across the, you know, right there, and they went up on this tree, and they were both doing that shit. I was like, who were they affiliated with? Oh, they were, how, and what does it mean affiliated? I don't know. I think they're probably in like the... Like a duet?

Starting point is 00:26:12 They're like in the cartel or something, I reckon. Oh, that could be the damn new Brooks and Dunn, dude. Yeah. That could be Dan and Shea. Who even knows what's going on anymore? Yeah, and they're just... Wait, do they do that? They come in pairs?

Starting point is 00:26:28 I think it was a male and female. Oh, a couple. Yeah. Oh, she probably wanted to go on vacation or something, and he probably didn't want to take her. Yeah, they were up there getting all them larvae out of them, out of that bark. Oh, it says right here, yes, Pellidi-Ead,

Starting point is 00:26:43 Pellidiad, Woodpeckers mate for life. They form permanent, monogamous pair bonds, and stay together year-round in fixed-home territories that they defend from other woodpeckers. If one partner dies, the surviving bird will find a new mate. You can learn more about their habits via the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.

Starting point is 00:27:03 Holy shit. So, man, that's crazy when animals do that shit. I saw something the other day where a fox, it's like something about, like, if a female fox dies, the, her old man will just, like, not, ever like get another lady. Huh.

Starting point is 00:27:21 He's like, he's just going to mourn his babe forever. That's honorable, huh? Yeah. But if like the male dies, the chick's just like, ah, fuck him. Welcome to Atlanta. Yeah. You know, it's just the exchange so fast, dude. It's that time.

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Starting point is 00:31:20 just probably because a lot of the drugs that came to y'all's area. Yeah, drugs, depression. I mean, it was always like overdose, you know, a couple friends that I was close to committed suicide. And then a lot of people were kind of hauled off to prison. So that's where, you know, a lot of the folks that I were friends with and loved and stuff. that's like the three ways that they would mostly leave yeah yeah was there was there a funeral that you remember going to like you remember the first funeral you ever went to yeah my grandpa's funeral i think was the first one at least that i remember um were you like surprised that people

Starting point is 00:32:04 like like i remember i went to a funeral for the first time and even though i had known like like we we knew that my friend's brother had passed away but when i went to the funeral i didn't i don't think I really registered it like and then we went to the funeral and like um it was like oh and it was just like so it was I don't know yeah I remember thinking it was so much it was so much it all was bawling dude and I just wanted like my tear like I was just like it wasn't even my family but it was just like so crazy to think that like this part of that that that's part of it yeah and I remember wanting to be my tears my tears like going into the cracks in the fucking floor and I was like god that's I just want to crawl down in there it well it just feels like

Starting point is 00:32:48 it's so like I don't know I was just like it's hard it hurts already the fact that you're gonna not have to be here one day something about it already hurts yeah I think that's how I felt like when I was young for sure yeah it's it's tough to think about I mean nobody nobody wants that um but it's kind of the only thing you can count on really yeah I remember thinking it was It was really, like, for, it was the first time I saw a dead body, I think, was my grandpa's. And I remember, like, I think my aunt, maybe my grandma and stuff was, like, you know, kissing him and stuff. And I remember just kind of being, like, weirded out by that, like, whoa. You know, they're like kissing that, my dead grandpa's body.

Starting point is 00:33:34 That was a freak. Yeah, I mean, I would, I'd be like, damn, I didn't know what that was possible. Damn, he must have really had it. Yeah, no, he was, he was badass, man. Oh, if somebody's, yeah, I think, yeah, if I'm laying there, I want some of my friends to come up and tickle me or do some little things like that, you know? Maybe sneak a pill under my tongue or something or give me one hit of LSD at that point. Yeah. Because if I die sober, man, then that's what I want.

Starting point is 00:34:03 And I don't know if that's crazy to announce whatever, but, yeah, if you come to, if you come to my funeral, you're welcome to slide a little hit of Lusud under me, you know. Yeah, help you with, you know, good journey. Yeah. Good luck out there, brother. Yeah. Let's make it, hey, make it rip, bro. Dude, you had your, how's your leg? How's the leg going on?

Starting point is 00:34:22 I know everybody asked you, so I... It's great. Yeah, I mean, it's healing up pretty good. I've been doing lots of physical therapy and shit. Last time I saw you, I was on crutches. Now I'm just kind of rocking this guy. Hell yeah. That cane, baby.

Starting point is 00:34:38 Yeah. Billy Wonka, dude. That bitch is hype. Your wife got you that? Yeah, because this is the cane that Lawrence Talbot had on the original 1941 universal motion pictures, The Wolfman. And Lawrence, Larry Talbot, in the beginning of the film, he's working on his dad's telescope.

Starting point is 00:35:02 He just comes back to England or wherever they're at. And he's working on the telescope, and then he, you know, comes over and he sees this girl in her window and she's putting on her earrings and stuff he's peeping tom in that shit yeah yeah and then uh so he sees her and then he realizes she works at the antiques shop so he goes over there and he's like trying to talk to her and then he really doesn't know what he's looking for she's like well what are you looking for and uh he said well what i'm really looking for is a walking stick and he picks this one up he's like this one's pretty cool it's got a dog on it. And she's like, that's a wolf. And so he goes out on a double date with this

Starting point is 00:35:43 chick with her friend Jenny. And she sees this fortune teller in the woods that's actually played by Bela Legosi, who was like the original Dracula. Oh, yeah, bro. Logosie was like that. Yeah. The wolf man, this is called? Yeah, man. And he was a peeping time? Lon Cheney. Yeah. Hell yeah. That's how he found his girl. And then But anyways, that fortune teller sees Jenny in the woods and he's looking at her palm. He's reading her palm and he sees this symbol, that star with a circle in it. And then he's like, you guys got a dip. Like, you know, because that's what happens is the wolfman sees that symbol in the palm of his next victim.

Starting point is 00:36:25 And so then, you know, they skedaddle. And then all of a sudden you start hearing these big howls and shit. And this wolf is attacking Jenny. and Larry beats the shit out of that wolf with this cane because it's got a silver head on it. Silver bullets, you know, silver can kill a wolf, a werewolf. And then he goes home, he gets bit in the process and he goes home.

Starting point is 00:36:50 The old lady drops him off and then, you know, the cops show up and he's like, man, you know, the fortune teller was found dead in the woods. And he's like, I'm telling you, I killed a plain old ordinary wolf. And so yeah, anyways, this is the Larry Talbot cane. I'm a big fan of all those old monster movies. Like my dad used to watch him with me when I was a kid. Yeah. And I just, I was really fascinated with the Wolfman when I was little.

Starting point is 00:37:16 Like, I wouldn't go outside if there was a full moon. Really? Yeah, because I knew he was out there, dude, just lurking on his tippy toes with them fangs. Yeah, and... Dude, being scared as a kid, bro, remember how scary it was? When you think of how scary it was when you were scared of. something as a kid, dude. The dark, bro?

Starting point is 00:37:39 Yeah, yeah. Bro, under a bed, get out of here, bro. Yeah, monsters in the closet or something, or you think something's some shadows. You see the, like, when it was nighttime and we were driving in the car with my parents and stuff, and I was looking out the window, we'd be driving past a forest, and I used to call him wolf-assus trees, because I, like, I knew the wolf was out there, and, like, in the movie, he's, like, looking behind these trees and shit, and they're all, like, oily, black.

Starting point is 00:38:04 And like I just always Whenever I saw like the woods at night I was just like I knew the wolf man was out there I believed in him Oh dude I remember thinking that like I would have oh that's him Yeah that's Lon Cheney Lonchaney Jr.

Starting point is 00:38:21 Damn he's like that He looks like he used to play for the Minnesota Vikings a little bit Like my buddy Steve Settler He's got that look Bro I remember we would watch those Jason We would watch Friday the 13th movies With our older brothers and then our older brothers would just go dip and do some shit and just leave the younger

Starting point is 00:38:38 brothers alike. The craziest thing you can do is watch a scary movie with your younger brother and then just dip because that kid is fucking scared out of his ankles, bro. I remember me and my friend William just sitting there. We sat back to back, dude. We were so scared and we stayed up for as long as we could. Yeah. We put every light in the house on except the one of my mom's bedroom and then we put a towel in front of her door so the light wouldn't go in there. And we were like, we are not losing this plate. Like, just everything was fucking traumatic, dude. And you'd hear a car go by and you'd be like, that's Freddie Crooker.

Starting point is 00:39:16 It would always be something that was so intense, bro. My dad, when I was, when I was little, there was one night, because he, you know, he's the one that showed me the wolfman and shit when I was, I don't even know, fucking five, six. And, yeah. And so I remember there was one night where I was. I was up in my room and I was playing with toy cars. And I was probably supposed to be asleep. And I probably had, you know, school the next morning or something.

Starting point is 00:39:42 But I was in there playing with my toy cars and shit. And my dad had this wolf mask. And he went outside. And I had a window that went off to the back porch. And he, you know, I'm sitting there playing with my tour cars. And I heard a noise. And I, like, looked around. And I was like, what the fuck was that?

Starting point is 00:39:59 And I'm like, eh. You know, and I went back to playing. And then I heard clearly a scratch on the stuff. screen of the window and I looked up dude and I saw he was wearing that wolf mask and it fucking dude I freaked your dad did that yeah he scared the living shit out of me and I uh I ran out of my room like down the hallway we lived in this little trailer did you know it was him the hell no I mean I thought it was a wolf you know and uh I ran and I ran like I jumped from like the hallway all the way over to my mom who was laying on the couch and I just landed right

Starting point is 00:40:34 right on top of her. I was screaming, crying. My dad came in the back door, just laughing. He's like, it's a mask. It's a mask, you know. And I'm just like, oh, dude, I, man, it must have been funny, but why hell would you do that? So scary, dude.

Starting point is 00:40:50 He still talks about it. Bro, yeah, I guess, but I guess, yeah, maybe it looked, dude, maybe you're like, I'm going to scare the shit out of this fucking kid, you know what I'm saying? Who knows what parents think? Because all you have to do is have two beers and be like, hey, I think I'm going to scare my kid. And the next thing, you know, you're doing it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:05 Or maybe it's like he's supposed to be in bed, but he's in there playing with his toy cars. I'm going to go, you know. Oh, dude. Yeah, but dude, he just scratched on that metal screen. And I'm like, I heard it the first time. And I was like, what the fuck was that? And then second time and he, like, moved into the light with that mask. Dude, I was so terrified.

Starting point is 00:41:25 God, dude. Yeah. Yeah, dude. We had, we called it, they called it like haunt. People would go haunting in our. area and it was like that was like peep and times they had a lot of people in times in our area so you'd see people out there almost on the circuit or whatever like people would like hit like it like it was just like a lot of peepin times you know they busted a lot of dudes in our area

Starting point is 00:41:42 they had a lot of pedophiles in our area because they used to have this this law where if you was a pedophile um and you might i don't know if you believe in them or not i believe in them believe in what pedophiles yeah like do i believe they're real yeah i'm pretty sure they're real Okay. All right. Same. Unfortunately. Same, yeah. But the problem was, dude, they would have to come to your door.

Starting point is 00:42:08 They had a law if they moved into the neighbor. They had to come to your door. But all of our moms worked in our neighbor. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like a lot of it was a lot of single parent families in the mom's work. She'd have a pedophile would come to the door and, like, have to let you guys know I'm a pedophile. Oh, yeah. And it would just be us kids answering the door.

Starting point is 00:42:24 Like, it was the worst. Oh, shit. It was the worst idea that they'd ever come up with, dude. because we, I remember three different pedophiles, or P-files, people call them, because if they're in a hurry or whatever. But I remember three different P-files would come and be like, hey, I'm just have to let you know

Starting point is 00:42:40 that I'm registered and then I'm in the neighborhood. And we're like, and we just be standing there, dude, just kids. Well, I reckon that was like, you know, probably the early days of the internet and stuff, and long before that, like, database. Oh, for sure. This was just when, yeah. So that's what they had to do

Starting point is 00:42:56 is they had to go kind of out themselves. Yeah, well. They'd organize them. Yeah. Because before that, they were just working freelance or whatever, I guess, you know, before they, you know, had them all registered up. But anyway, let's change the subject. Yeah, so what happened?

Starting point is 00:43:09 Take me through the, take me through a little bit of the injury. So are you, is it better now, would you say? Yeah, it's definitely getting there. I mean, it's stiff and it hurts a little bit. But, yeah, I was just, man, I grew up skateboarding. And it's always been one of my major loves, you know, outside of music. and I think, you know, the last little bit, I've been playing a lot more music than skating. But I was on tour and I was skating a fair amount.

Starting point is 00:43:42 I remember we went through Tampa and I went through the skate park of Tampa there. Dude, I've been there. Yeah. That indoor building? Yeah. Bro, that place to bring that place up. Yeah. What's it called?

Starting point is 00:43:52 Skate Park of Tampa. Dude, this was one of the neatest things. Bro. Thank you so much for reminding me about that today. They let us just come and watch one day and watch all the guys skating. Yeah. Yeah, they have a big contest every year, Tampa Pro. And when I went this last time, all the pros were there warming up and shit.

Starting point is 00:44:09 Yeah, it was gnarly. It was cool to go see him skate. But I was skating and, you know, I don't know. And like in these arenas that we play, I mean, you know, it's like you get to the back door. Sometimes, like, just the walk to the green room is like a far-ass walk, right? Oh, yeah, dude. sometimes you have to stop and even get a snack. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:29 So I had been using my skate. Like I would get off the bus and I would just bring my skateboard and I would like slap down. Also the concrete's always so smooth in there. Yeah, it is pretty slick. A lot of the concrete in those places is kind of slick. Yeah. So it's really nice on a skateboard. It's super smooth.

Starting point is 00:44:46 So I could just like push twice and like be all the way around the whole arena and like, you know, into my green room or whatever. But I, you know, I'd been skating a bunch. And we finished this show in Charlottesville, I think. It's the John Paul Jones Arena. Dude, that's a great spot. Yeah. Been there. Yeah, so we finished there.

Starting point is 00:45:13 That town is great. Yeah. It's where UVA is. Yeah. And, yeah, I was lucky that I broke my leg there. They had a great medical team there, you know, like that. The hospitals are great there. And, oh, yeah, you break that bitch.

Starting point is 00:45:25 up in Syracuse or something. Notice wish that bitch was better, you know? I mean, it kind of risque. It was crazy. So, like, I mean, it was really weird. I was all excited after my gig. We just finished the last song. It was this big hide-and-seek jam,

Starting point is 00:45:41 and we just spanked the crowd. And I was all excited. I had all this adrenaline from the show, and my board was sitting there. We walked off stage. We were getting ready to do an encore. And so I just grabbed my board. I did, like, a couple bonuses.

Starting point is 00:45:55 and then I went out just right backstage, and I just kind of flung this back 180, and that's like, it's a go-to trick for me. I've done it millions of times, and I've never broke my leg, you know? And, but the thing is, is, like, I wasn't, like, focused and I wasn't really skating. I was just, like, flinging tricks,

Starting point is 00:46:14 and I wasn't, like, thinking about it. And so, and it was dark, and I had brand new, like, sticky shoes on. And so it was weird, like, I did this back 180, and I kind of slipped out. and then when I put my foot down, my body kept spinning and I sort of like sat on my foot and my shoes were brand new so the bottoms was sticky

Starting point is 00:46:36 and it just, when I put my foot down my toe stayed right where it was and the rest of my body kept moving so I just heard it snap. No-uh. Oh dude, yeah, I could hear it over the crowd like screaming and it was just, I mean it sounded like a two by four snap and a half

Starting point is 00:46:50 and I'm laying on the ground and my guitar tech comes up, Toby, he says, dude get up and I'm like I just broke my leg and he's like nah I'm like look at it it's fucking it's pointed 90 degrees to the left yeah and he's like oh shit and so I laid there for a minute and uh nobody was like moving me or anything so I'm like fuck it I just got up I lieutenant dan my ass out of there you know I just scooted on my ass back behind the curtain they came they cut my pant leg up could you tell it was broken oh I knew it was broken immediately I mean I heard it It's like, and the fact that it was like pointed the wrong way, it was like, yeah, my leg is fucking broken.

Starting point is 00:47:26 Do you try to fix it yourself at all? No, no, I didn't fuck with it. But I scoot it out of there. And then the medic came and he kind of cut my pant leg up and they took me and they put me on this stretcher. And then I called my wife and I'm like, yeah, I just broke my leg. She's like, what? You know, I'm like, I was dicking around on my skateboard, you know, and fucking slipped out and somehow I broke my leg. and all the like pros I've talked to and stuff they're like even Tony Hawk Jamie Thomas all these

Starting point is 00:47:54 cats they're just like man that's how it happens is like some stupid little trick like it's always like some dumb thing um but so I'm sitting on the stretcher and the guy comes up and he's like we're gonna give you some fentanyl I was like nah like I was like no like don't you know how far I've come yeah you know I was like fentanyl like you know and he's like and you know one of the of the guys was like, dude, the roads are pretty bumpy around here. You're going to want that. It was like, all right, fuck it. So they gave me fentanyl and IV. It like took the edge off, you know. And at that point, I was starting to like go into shock and I started sweating, but I was freezing. And it started to hurt because it didn't even hurt when it happened.

Starting point is 00:48:36 It just, I heard it and I knew it was broken, but I had so much adrenaline. Didn't even fucking hurt. That's wild, dude. Was that a pretty just, that whole experience has got to be pretty wild because like adrenaline is just like a crazy drug that, God gives you, but you can't just get it whenever you want. Yeah, it was, it was wild. I mean, I knew my leg was broken. I just, I couldn't even feel it at first. I just, my leg was pointed sideways, and I'm like, oh, man, it's busted. But it didn't like hurt until that adrenaline started to wear off. And then it was like, oh, and then it kind of started coming. I'm like, oh, shit, here it comes. And then they gave me that fentanyl. They hit you with an IV?

Starting point is 00:49:12 Yeah. And they were doing that and morphine back to back. Fentanol would work better, but it only last like 10 minutes, you know. Damn. And then the morphine would like last longer, but it didn't help as much. But then, so they got me there and they, they gave me a red carpet, man. It was like, you know, we got a, uh, uh, you got a police escort. Yeah, police escort, you know, they're like, we got a high profile patient, you know. And so they've, man, they brought me in this back door.

Starting point is 00:49:38 They closed off the hallways. There was nobody in there. They wheeled me right into the x-rays immediately. It was fucking cool. And then, uh... Did you feel like a movie kind of? Yeah, I mean, it was just nice. that I didn't have to sit there with a broken leg

Starting point is 00:49:50 in the emergency room forever, you know? Oh yeah, for sure. And shit. Oh, yeah, getting a little bit of treat me out. Just to not to sit out there and some other guys coughing on your fucking leg or whatever. Somebody's fucking, yeah. Some guys using you to fucking sleep on your back and shit. Bro, our healthcare system is fucking crazy, dude.

Starting point is 00:50:07 It's wild. Just people like trying to heal each other, like religiously and shit in the lobbies. A lot of these hospitals just got crazy. Yeah. People rubbing pepper jack on each other's fucking necks and shit. And just people just like. thinking up shit they can do because they got to wait five or six hours to get in there to even get a fucking hug, you know? Yeah, totally.

Starting point is 00:50:26 So I was lucky to get in there and they x-rayed it and stuff. And, I mean, I can show you the x-rays. They're pretty gnarly. I remember when I saw you in Austin, you showed me a picture that was crazy. You looked like they'd fucking turned it into a damn violin. Yeah, that was. That one you showed me. Well, that's, yeah, after they, you know, the surgery and stuff.

Starting point is 00:50:43 There's one in there, like, right after it happened before. it was even set and splinted where it looks really fucked. Yeah, dude, turn it into a viola. Dude, what if you had a via leg, dude? And you made it wooden and you put some strings on the side of that bit. That metal bar in there could work as a whammy bar if I ever get it taken out. That's what it looks like. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:08 But dude, the craziest part about the whole thing was, so I get in there and we get an x-rayed. Yeah, that's the one that looks really screwed. That was before it was set and splinted. So it's what they call a distal tib fib spiral fracture. And it's, it means like it's broken like pretty close to my ankle, which made it worse. If it was broken in the middle of my leg, they could just put a rod down there, screw it and like it'd be a lot better. But because it was so close to my ankle, it's a bitch of a surgery, like, you know.

Starting point is 00:51:38 And so, but dude, they, they, uh, they x-rayed it and they're like, okay, we're going to have to set it and split it before, because I'm not going to get surgery until the next morning. So they had to get it straight and then put a splint on it. And so they needed me to not be in the room, but they couldn't put me under anesthesia. So what they did is gave me this huge dose of ketamine. And it was insane. It was like one of the most crazy psychedelic experiences I've ever had.

Starting point is 00:52:10 I mean, they dropped me straight into a K-hole. Really? And take me through some of that. Take me through the K-hole. Was there a layover or was it just straight there? Was it direct flight? Like were you getting emails? Yeah, direct flight.

Starting point is 00:52:21 I mean, it was immediately everything just folded in on itself and like language and everything kind of made up all these molecules. And I could still hear the doctors talking a little bit, but they were using now this alien language that I couldn't understand. And I was frozen in this like white space and time and I went down into this other dimension. It was like when Matthew McConaughey's trying to move the, you know, book on the shelf. It was like I was trapped behind layers of language. And, um, fuck, that's a good description, Billy. Yeah. And I was, uh, I was there.

Starting point is 00:52:58 And I knew I was there, but I just, there was nothing I could do. And it felt like I turned into, like, computer code or like, I felt like I was the, the microchip inside of an iPod, sending signals. But, you know, um, and it, it was, it was wild. I felt very much like an inanimate object. Yes, dude. That's what it felt like. Dude, yeah, I felt like I was playing hide and go seek, but I'd just, I never told, with myself,

Starting point is 00:53:26 but I'd never told myself that we started the game. Like, I felt like I had fucking, I felt like I would never find my shoes again. That's what I felt like. And I also remember feeling like I was like something very small that had fallen behind a piece of furniture. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, I just had, like, you were making me, dude, that's some of those thought you just had were freaking bananas.

Starting point is 00:53:50 Yeah, it was like I was stuck in this frozen dimension and I just kind of was like, well, I guess this is life now. You know, I guess this is, this is where I'm at. And this sucks because I think I'm dead, you know? And I just was like, well, shit. And I was kind of like, well, whatever. I guess I'm just, there was nothing I could do because I was paralyzed in this state. Yeah, dude. I felt like you ever see that ball in the back of your throat kind of that's there.

Starting point is 00:54:17 Yeah. But you just see like every once in a while you kind of get a glimmer at it through your whole life. Yeah. And yeah, I felt kind of like that. I felt like that, but on like an animal somewhere at a zoo that had been closed for almost 2,000 years. Right. That's what I felt like. Yeah, long forgotten.

Starting point is 00:54:31 Yes. I felt like, you know, like these sunglasses that are just sitting here, but nobody knows that they have a soul and a brain, but they're just, they can't say or do anything because they're just frozen in these glasses. but you know what I mean? Yeah. So then when I started to come back to, that was hilarious too, because I guess I started coming to, there's this lady's face right here, and her face is all distorted,

Starting point is 00:54:54 and she's talking to me in this alien language. And I looked at her, I'm like, who are you? You know, and then I look over here, and there's this big, tall man in a white shirt, and I was like, Uncle John? And then my wife said I was talking all sorts of gibberish about like the inside of an apple core, and that like this has,

Starting point is 00:55:13 all been predetermined. Like, this was all, you know, thought out and this was like part of the plan, you know, everything. You had the wizard's tongue, they call it. Yeah, yeah, for a second there, I thought I was. And then I was also speaking complete gibberish, not saying real words. Yeah, but that you got, yeah. But then, uh, I.

Starting point is 00:55:30 That's fucking, you do. Welcome to New Jersey. Yeah. The doctors were running around doing a bunch of stuff to me. And I just like, I was like, I didn't know what was going on. And I was, like, I thought there were aliens like fucking with me, you know, like, trying to probe me or something. And I was like, fuck you.

Starting point is 00:55:45 Yeah. Like I just told him that. I was like, Get away from my ass, Whitey. I was like, I'm sorry. You know, I didn't mean that. You know, and then, uh, oh, yeah, there's nothing crazy than being on drugs and being an asshole and apologizing at the same time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:59 Right away. I was like, fuck you. I'm sorry. You know. And then they put this thing on. I mean, it's pretty. You're the best, dude. The, uh, what do you call it?

Starting point is 00:56:09 For your blood pressure. Oh, yeah. That cough. Yeah, that cuff. Yeah, that cuff. It fills up. so I'm laying there, I'm all fucked up and that thing fills up

Starting point is 00:56:16 and, you know, probably because of my guns that thing popped right off, right? The Velcro came undone and it goes, pop off my arm and I go, my butt popped. You know? I just, it felt like my butt cheeks blew up with air and then they popped

Starting point is 00:56:33 like a bubble. And I was like, oh, my butt popped. You know? My wife was like trying not to laugh, but I was saying some crazy shit. And then they brought me upstairs, and I was in a lot of pain all night long because they started giving me like dilatids and hydrocodone just orally. And it wasn't doing anything to the pain. I just laid there and moaned and groaned all night.

Starting point is 00:56:56 Dude, but that seems crazy that they, and did they have to go over with your wife if they were going to give you all that medication? Like, who approves that once you're kind of like? Yeah, my manager was there. My wife, my security, dude. You know. Okay, so there were people there at least like keeping tabs on you. Yeah. Okay, bad. Yeah, I think my, my dude, Jim, he wrote with me over there and then my manager and stuff.

Starting point is 00:57:19 Yeah, you know, Jim. Dude, he's awesome, bro. Yeah, he's a great guy. Yeah. Then the next morning, they fucking took me down for surgery and they, before they gave me a nerve block, which was the best thing ever, because it just, it's like an epidural for your leg. It just drenches all the nerves in lytocane. So I didn't feel nothing then for the first time since it happened. I was like, oh, it just felt so good to not feel it.

Starting point is 00:57:41 Damn, you were like Lemon M in the 2000s. You're like, freaking Marshall, nothing matters. Yeah, dude. For sure. That's crazy, bro. And they gave me this one shit. I can't remember what it was called, but it had me so chilled out. And then like, God, dude, it sounds like this is kind of the worst thing to say being in recovery, but to fucking say like, yeah, using, using drugs like in a hospital, like under like proper care.

Starting point is 00:58:06 Yeah, it was a freebie. Yeah, it was a freebie, dude. Yeah. It was. It really was. I mean, and I. Like, except for the, except for the, I mean, I sort of enjoyed the ketamine, but it was also terrifying. Because I thought I was frozen in a, oh yeah, that shit's horrible.

Starting point is 00:58:20 Different dimension, you know. Yeah, you're like, nobody's ever going to come. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I thought my brain had fried and I, you know, it was like you took a glass of water and poured it on a television or something. It was like all the, you know, my brain just fried. But man, the thing that they gave me right before surgery, I don't know what it was, but it had me so chilling. And I was finally just getting some rest and some relief. And then my oxygen kept going down.

Starting point is 00:58:47 So my thing started beeping. So I'd start chilling like this. And then you'd go beep, beep, beep. And then this lady would come in and say, I need you to take a big, deep breath for me. I'm like, you know, I take a deep breath. And then I chill a little bit. And it goes, beep, beep. And she's like, I need you to breathe.

Starting point is 00:59:01 And I'm like, I am breathing. You know, like, just leave me alone. Like, I'm fucking chilling finally, you know. And God, now that I'm chilling, you're coming in here, making me breathe and shit. because I guess I was so chilled out. I wasn't even breathing. I was just... Oh.

Starting point is 00:59:14 Yeah, that's one of those breath diggers, dude. It was good. Chicks like that, that's one of fucking all they care about is you filling your lungs up, dude. All those fucking, just those lung diggers. But yeah, probably the smartest thing that I did coming out of the hospital

Starting point is 00:59:29 was I gave all my pain meds to my wife. And I said, you divvy these up, you know. Yeah. You're in charge of this. Like, give me my pills when I need them and stuff. Because I know myself too well. I'd be like, oh, man, one of these is good. Wonder what two is like.

Starting point is 00:59:45 So then, uh. Yeah, start hiding or whatever. Yeah. I'd fucking start boofing them. I don't care what I would do. Crush one up and snort it or something. Yeah, I'd snort it with my ass, brother. I get it.

Starting point is 00:59:55 You know what I'm saying? If I had to like, you know what's it called? A little parachute? Oh yeah, a little parachute, bro. Yeah, yeah, dude. I'd send somebody behind enemy lines, you know? I'd send one of them behind enemy lines for sure. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:09 But yeah, I can't trust myself. Can't trust myself. Yeah. And I'm, you know, I've just been around it a lot. And I know myself. I'm an addict. So I was, like, scared to, you know, beyond that stuff anyways. But I had to take out.

Starting point is 01:00:23 They gave me dilaudits. And then I was on this, what is it called? Gabapentin was like the nerve pain thing. And then there was another. I just saw a lawsuit about Gabapentin. You may be able to be part of this. That shit gave me vertigo like a motherfucker. It was crazy, dude.

Starting point is 01:00:38 But, yeah, I. I weaned off it in like, I weaned off like everything in like two weeks. Um, and then I was just on like ibuprofen and stuff. And so it's pretty good. Two weeks. Two weeks is a long haul. Let's read it really quick. Is that new?

Starting point is 01:00:52 Yeah. Is it related to dementia? Shut up. But, but, but look, dude, I'm just going to tell you just. Because I'm telling you this shit gave me vertigo like weird brain shit to where when I'm laying in bed and I roll over like this next thing, you know, I'm spinning. You know how when you get way too drunk? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:08 You're spinning and you're spinning and you can. can't fucking hold the, you know, that's what it was doing to me, dude. And like, one of the first times it happened, I laid back in bed and I moved my head like this. And I was like that, because I thought the bed was falling down into the floor. I thought I was going to slide off the end of it, you know? Fuck, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Dude, but I was like 13 or something. I fucking, um, the dude left the Gravitron door open at our fair one time. And my fucking legs were hanging out of that bitch. And dude, no joke, bro. I walked sideways for probably almost 11 days after that, dude.

Starting point is 01:01:39 I just like my body just could not adjust to what was going on. That thing would, that thing fucking remix my little ass. There is currently no nationwide class action lawsuit or multi-district litigation for these cognitive claims. The allegation lawsuits are being investigated or filed individually, alleging that manufacturers failed to warn patients and doctors about potential long-term neurocognitive risks, such as mild cognitive impairment or dementia tied to repeated use for all flable conditions like back or neck pain. Anyway, that just passed through my brainosphere the other day.

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Starting point is 01:04:33 see what stands out and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Theo. That's BetterH-E-L-P dot com slash T-H-E-O. Just second ago, you mentioned addiction. When you talk about, you know, when you say like, I know myself, I know I'm an addict, like, what is that kind of, like, addiction is, it feels like it's almost this shadow that has its own game plan or something.

Starting point is 01:05:02 You know what I'm saying? Like addiction is kind of a weird thing. I think a lot of people don't understand it. And I'm not saying that I understand it totally, right? I know that I have addiction. I know that I struggle with addiction. But I think it's just interesting to think about what it is, you know? Yeah, it's an illness.

Starting point is 01:05:16 I mean, I think some people are lucky enough not to have it. I think, you know, people who can go out and have a couple beers with their dinner or a glass of wine with their steak or whatever, it's like, man, yeah, that's that's amazing i wish i could do that yeah because it i'm like we need to like get a bottle of whiskey and finish it and you know we need to go on a mission to get more after that's gone oh dude i'll fucking if i come over your house and you give me a glass of wine i'm gonna fucking get an eight ball i'm gonna sell i'll sell your front porch on edzy yeah you know i'm i'll sell all your fucking windows out of your house you little you want to know and i'm

Starting point is 01:05:55 gonna take that out but uh you want to know what's crazy is that it just yeah it's not gonna And well, dude. So after my mom died, and I was in Australia when I found out that she died from an overdose. I was in Australia on tour. I still had no idea what happened. I was like, was it an aneurysm, a heart attack? Like, what the hell happened? And then I got her autopsy and her papers back and it's, you know, her death certificate.

Starting point is 01:06:23 And it said methamphetamine intoxication was the cause of death. Like, holy shit, you know. Because that was a surprise. Yeah, big time. I mean, and I had no idea that she was using again and stuff. So it broke my heart. And, you know, I've been dealing with it. But as soon as I got back home from Australia, I went straight over to her house.

Starting point is 01:06:43 And I went up in her bedroom and I started digging through shit. And I found her stash. And I found all these, you know, pipes and, you know, little bags and vials and stuff and all that shit. But, dude, the difference is, like, this speed was different than the, the stuff I was used to. Like back when I was around that scene, living in Ionia, and it was that epidemic at that time.

Starting point is 01:07:07 It was being cooked in this area, and it was like suitor-fed, like, shake-and-bake, kind of country bumpkin sort of crank. I knew you were talking about just like that homemade shit kind of. Yeah, it was like white powdery stuff, and you, you know, put it in a pipe or a light bulb or a foil. Like jank them or whatever. Not exactly.

Starting point is 01:07:26 Not exactly. But I know what you're saying. But I'm just saying, like, it's like a localized mixture. It's like a local recipe, but it got the job done. Anyways, this shit that I found after she had died when I found her stash, this was straight crystal glass. And I had never even seen shit like that before, right?

Starting point is 01:07:42 I had heard about it, and everybody's seen Breaking Bad and shit, but I'm looking at it. I got this vial, and it's like half full, and I'm like, damn. And it just looks like broken glass in there, like shards. Really? Yeah, and I, you know, I'd never... Does it look at anything like that? I mean, we just brought up a picture here on.

Starting point is 01:07:57 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I could also... I could send you the pictures. of it but um dude you want to know what the first thought that went through my head was was like man i should just take a little bit of this and put it aside for like a rainy day yeah you know because i don't where the hell else would i get some you know i don't i don't know anybody anymore or whatever that's like that attic you know coming through it's like this literally the stuff that I'm holding in my hand

Starting point is 01:08:26 killed my mom and my first thought is I should take some and just hide it like that way if I need it someday you know I'll have it and um yeah it was just that was a crazy thought you know and I just ended up you know getting rid of it I got a hold of my buddy

Starting point is 01:08:46 my friend Alec who's a police officer I went to high school with growing up And I called him and I was like, man, can you have one of your boys come just grab this stuff? Like, I don't want to put it in the trash can because I'll go digging back through there later or my dad will or something or somebody will or I just needed to get like actually dispose of it. You know? And so my mom would have hated that. She always told me don't even speak to the police. But, yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:15 Yeah. And another crazy thing too is like. It's a good definition of it. Yeah. I mean, that's how bad. that it is, it's like, like I said, this literally killed my mom. And I'm thinking, man, I should just take a little bit. Yeah. Put it aside. Nobody would know. And also thought it's like for a rainy day. I would be like, let me keep some so I can scrapbook it. I'm not even joking.

Starting point is 01:09:38 That's what my brain would do. So I can like have like a, if I, you know what I'm saying? Like I'll think like, let me keep some for like a memory, like a memory. You know what I'm saying? Like, but yeah, but there's a part of my brain that's like, man, I don't know, that's just a good. I'm sorry to hear that We had texted kind of around that time But yeah man And I appreciate you Uh

Starting point is 01:09:57 Reaching out You know this guy He got a big heart I mean You You stayed in touch with me Through all that When I was in the hospital

Starting point is 01:10:08 With my dad You kept You kept in touch And You offered to come walk My dog When I broke my leg Like man

Starting point is 01:10:17 You're you're good dude And I appreciate all that You know Well thanks man man. You're the probably, you're one of the realest guys who've ever,

Starting point is 01:10:24 you're one of the realest people I've been around. I don't know how God gave you that gift to be so real. I don't know. And I'm sorry to hear about your mom, dude. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:34 She loved you, bro. Did she? Yeah. Oh, dude. Yeah, she loved you, man. Where did I met her somewhere? Did you? Yeah, I met her somewhere.

Starting point is 01:10:42 I'm trying to think if it was at a show of you. Yeah, probably. She was that a lot of your shows right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, she came to so many shows. Like, I would be in fucking New Orleans or Seattle or Texas or somewhere, dude, and she would just show up in my green room.

Starting point is 01:11:06 I'd be like, what are you doing here? She's like, oh, I hitchhiked down with so-and-so and, you know, can you get me a hotel room? Really? I'm like, holy shit, mom. I'll sleep on the bus. You can have my room. Aw. Oh.

Starting point is 01:11:19 Yeah, what was her spirit like? Tell us, if it's okay with you, let's just think about her for a second. Man, she was a, hard to explain. She was a beautiful, beautiful soul. And I've never met anybody else like her, that's for sure. I mean, she was born in 1960 on Halloween. No way. Yeah, she's a Scorpio.

Starting point is 01:11:41 She was like, she was always kind of like psychic and always had this intuition. always even though she was an outlaw she like never you know she skirted around the law and a lot of different times like just but yeah she loved music and she loved art she was an artist she made a lot of art uh oh love music huh oh yeah i mean i remember being a little kid like a little kid and she would like show me all these you know do you know who this is oh this is you know let's you know let's Zeppelin or this is you know pearl jam or this is uh she used to play she did like backwards masking where she'd play the record backwards and find like secret messages in it and uh she was playing me when i remember being just a little kid she was playing revolution number nine backwards the

Starting point is 01:12:34 Beatles white album showing me showing me how it says turn me on dead man you know and i'm just like a little seven years old or something it's like mom what are you doing you know but but yeah she was amazing man She dealt with a lot of trauma in her life. I mean, I think she had a wild upbringing anyways. I mean, when she was... Is that a picture over when she was young? Yeah. Oh.

Starting point is 01:13:01 Yeah. When she was like 16 years old. Bro, go back to that one picture. Look at what a curious but also kind of mysterious young lady she is. Yeah. Yeah. But witchy too. Like she's just something, there's something different about her, man.

Starting point is 01:13:16 Just like she came from a lot. like another realm just to audit humanity. Yeah, she, I mean, she definitely did. She was, she was tapped into some shit that we will never really know about. And it was always crazy too because, like, man, she's got so many crazy stories. And I would hear these stories and I wouldn't even believe them, you know. She's like, oh, I was hanging out with those dudes from Blow, like down in, like Miami and shit. They had, you know, they were breaking out lines this long and they were, you know, they had

Starting point is 01:13:44 boats full of money. they didn't have anywhere else to put their money, so they just would buy a boat and just put it on this boat and park it in the marina. Like just with full of cash, you know. And then, you know, things, just crazy things. And I would not believe her, right, because these stories would be so insanely just like, whatever, you know. And then, you know, like she used to hang out with, like, all the bands she would get backstage. She's got, you know, picture. I got pictures with her, like Leonard Skinnerd and, you know, all these.

Starting point is 01:14:16 old bands. She said one of those bands, what was that band? Thirty-eight special or some shit like that. One of these bands had a damn chimpanzee that would ride on roller skates and bring drinks around. Really? Who was it? That's what she said anyways, and I'm like, okay, you know? And then later on... She seems like such a gypsy woman. Yeah, she was, man. Later on in life, there would be somebody, you know, that show up one of her old girlfriends or something. Debbie, remember that time we were partying with the band and they had the chimpanzee? and I'm like, are you shitting me? You know, and it would always be like some story that I did not believe. But just crazy shit like that, man.

Starting point is 01:14:55 She's had a wildlife, and it makes sense that she would go out like that because she's not going to go out in some boring way. She's not going to get sick and drag it out. She's just going to, and that's the other thing about hers. She would be there and, like, you're partying and you're hanging out. And then it's like, where's Deb? Like, she would just leave without saying a word. And, like, that's how she left.

Starting point is 01:15:16 you know is how she always did and it was a you know now that I've had more time to process it and just been in a lot of therapy and stuff and like I mean obviously it still tears me up I'm I'm like grieving a lot in my dreams um I wake up like suffocating in my sleep and I just like my mom comes to me and I but it's never like a sweet like beautiful thing it's always like a really painful and I wake up and I'm just like I'm not breathing and I'm like I'm crying so hard in my sleep that it just wakes me up and my throat hurts and my head is throbbing and so i feel like i'm grieving a lot in my sleep or something but um well she seems so whimsical it's almost like the only place you could even touch her is in your dreams in a way you know i'm saying like she just seems like

Starting point is 01:16:02 such an ethereal type of creature you know it's even hearing you talk about it man um it's so wild that she loved music so much and that the thing that she created was a musician it's just kind of of like, I don't know. It's kind of, it's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, because sometimes our mothers go through a lot, I think, and we don't realize it, you know? Because a lot of moms, they don't really share all that with you. I think.

Starting point is 01:16:31 Well, I think that was a big part of her, you know, addiction and stuff was, let's see. I mean, she had a crazy upbringing anyways. My grandpa was always drinking, coming in, smashing up the house, and just, It was just a wild place to grow up. And then, you know, she was with my dad, William Apostle, and he died when he was 35. I was two years old. And that was only a couple years after her sister was murdered. So her sister was her best friend.

Starting point is 01:17:13 And Mel who's now free. you know, on a fucking bass boat somewhere. He killed my Aunt Carla with a 45 point blank, closed case, fucking, you know. And my mom, you know, there was that. And then a couple years later, my dad died of an overdose or, I mean, that's what it was. But also there's a lot of, like, kind of word on the street is somebody actually gave him a hot shot. like on purpose. So like that's a crazy thing too

Starting point is 01:17:52 is I just came across all these my cousin Patrice. She just found all these old tapes that was my grandma Apostles from her home phone back in the day. And it's the first time I ever heard my dad's voice on these tapes, you know. And it's just really crazy the shit

Starting point is 01:18:10 that they were all doing back in the day. Everybody was in and out of jail, all this crazy shit going down. Was it voicemails and stuff? like leaving on a message machine? No, it was like my grandma had her own phone tapped and every single phone call would just be recorded. Sorry, dude, that's just so bizarre.

Starting point is 01:18:25 Yeah. And perfect for your life. And what a gift now that she had it in a weird way. Because I can hear my, you know, I can hear my grandpa or my dad calling his mom kind of from jail or something. Yeah. Bitching about, you know, whatever, this and that. Or I need some, you know, need some money in my commissary.

Starting point is 01:18:46 I gave my shirt away to this one guy or whatever because he was like that too. He was like kind of this Robin Hood type. Like he would go in. My dad, he would go in and some store Walmart or something. Back in the day there was them hypercolor shirts. Yeah, and you'd blow on it and it would change colors.

Starting point is 01:19:04 Yeah. So he would go in and like steal a whole rack of those. Like just come out with the rack and put it in the car. And then he would like drive around Lansing and like give them away to the homeless people and shit. The fact that the homeless are out there. Reffing hyper. colors.

Starting point is 01:19:18 Yeah. Those were the shit. Bro, that's so wild. But yeah, I've always heard a lot of crazy stories about my dad, too. He was, he was,

Starting point is 01:19:27 I mean, they were omnots, dude. Just fucking wild bunch, you know, hillbillies. And my, my dad,

Starting point is 01:19:33 like, there's this one story where he worked at a cable company for a while. And, um, ever, even,

Starting point is 01:19:40 was an Eldridge or whatever? I don't know. It was some kind of, but. But they made cable, like long cable? No, I'm talking about like T for T

Starting point is 01:19:47 Okay, bet. So even when I was a little kid, my grandma always had free cable. It was just hooked up. It was like wired in. And my dad had did that back when he was alive. And it's like he climbed up the telephone pole or whatever, and he's got the case open. And then everybody on Fairfield Street came out of their house and was looking because their TV got shut off or something. And he's all up there on that pole.

Starting point is 01:20:16 he's like, do you have HBO? And they're like, no. And then he's like, well, you will in a minute. Just go back inside, you know? So he hooked up everybody on Fairfield Street's cable for free, like after he worked for the company, you know? Yeah, dude. Shit like that.

Starting point is 01:20:32 He was like Robin Hood, bro. Bro, we could use him now to take care of these flock cameras. That's what we could use it now for. Man, and one of the craziest things, too, is, like, that I'm coming to terms with and, like, learning and stuff like that is just hearing him. hearing him talk about me and my brother and stuff. Like when I was growing up and he was, you know, he died when I was two.

Starting point is 01:20:54 I always thought, oh, well, he loved heroin more than me. Right. And I'm kind of, you know, I was kind of like, well, screw him. I got my, you know, Terry, that's my dad. He raised me up. He taught me everything I know how to play and everything. And I always kind of had this chip on my shoulder about my real dad. But it's just not the case.

Starting point is 01:21:12 I mean, he did love me and my brother, and he did try his best. and he was trying to, you know, get his life straight and stuff. And it turns out there's a pretty good chance that he was kind of murdered, you know? Like somebody shot him up with like, you know, a hot shot is what they used to call it. Would people do that to people like they didn't like who they knew were struggling with addiction sometimes? Is that a common thing? It's a way to murder somebody with the, you know, it just looks like an overdose. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:21:38 That's a good point. And I think that was happening a lot back then. I mean, the guy who supposedly did it, Steve Rogers, he died the same exact way. months or a year later. And I think his old lady Martha might have shot him up like that because she loved my dad, you know, or whatever.

Starting point is 01:21:55 But I think there was a lot of that tip for tat stuff going on back then. And yeah, it's crazy to learn about and hearing these tapes and stuff. Because there's also tapes of my mom calling my grandma Apostle talking about what happened.

Starting point is 01:22:12 My grandma Connie on my mom's side calling my grandma Betty on the Apostle side, calling and telling her what happened to her son and stuff. Like, you know, apparently he, like, collapsed in the driveway, and, like, they, you know, Steve Rogers was like, let's get out of here. And, you know, Martha's like, hell no, and took him inside and was trying to do CPR and everything. And, you know, so hearing all this stuff is really, I went down a bad rabbit hole of it. When I found all these tapes and I started listening to everything and I just, you know,

Starting point is 01:22:46 It's like I'm trying to put these puzzle pieces back together from 1995, you know. Oh, it's like a serial podcast. Yeah, I mean, it's just, but it's like my dad, you know. Yeah. You have to go down it. Was it a lot of hours of tapes? There's a lot of them on there, yeah. I haven't even listened to all of them yet.

Starting point is 01:23:04 But there's also just like, I always thought the Lee side was crazy because my grandpa, for instance, he was an outlaw, race car driving, you know, bringing moonshine up to Michigan, crazy, just crazy bunch. And he hung out with like riff-raff from Lansing and stuff. His whole crew was just like, like, dude, crazy. Like, there's this guy named Art Schaefer, and he's still around. And Art Schaefer was like a klepto.

Starting point is 01:23:32 And he would hang out with my grandpa, you know, he was, my grandpa hung out with like the outcasts, you know. He would befriend these guys. There was this guy, Billy Struble, who was mentally challenged. And there was Art Shafel. and there was Hill Billy Pete who had a big beard and he always had a big 40 wrapped up in a paper bag. He never really said much. But Billy Struble was always like, you know, helping my grandma mow the yard and stuff.

Starting point is 01:23:57 And he was always real proud. Guess who mowed the yard boomer? I did it. I did it, you know? And I was like, hell yeah, Billy. He always smelled like coffee. Yeah. And like bad, like, like, bad kind of stinky coffee.

Starting point is 01:24:08 But then Art Schaefer, he's total klepto. And so there's this great story of him. my uncle worked at this place called Crystal Ray and they had events there and stuff and so they had all these what was it like turkeys or some ribs or something in the freezer was like a convention center type or like a place like a

Starting point is 01:24:32 like a hall people would go and have like exactly like a VFW kind of like a like a hall they would have like bingo there weddings maybe bingo maybe uh yeah but my uncle Billy he worked at this place and so, oh, there were steaks is what they were, big old steaks. And so they were going to have this event when they were going to cook all these steaks. And Art Schaefer was good friends with my Uncle Billy,

Starting point is 01:24:55 and he found out there was all these steaks there, and he went and stole all them steaks. And so he had them. And my Uncle Billy, he said, the next day or something, he said, man, he was sitting there with Art, and he knew how to draw it out of him. He said, man, Art, man, that's not. nice day. I mean, I sure wish we had some of them stakes that come up missing, man. I'm sure

Starting point is 01:25:19 they'd be good. And he goes, they are good. You know, he snitched on himself. He said, they are good. Bro, my buddy Antonio the other day, he freaking, he had some bad zins that he bought off the internet, like a bunch of cans of them. So he went and sold him to like some gas station owner, like some like kind of small gas station. Wow. Knowing they were bad. But then, fucking such an idiot. Two days later, he went to that gas station and bought a cans of him because he was just going to buy his sins.

Starting point is 01:25:50 He bought his own bad Zins back. Oh, my gosh. Were they like expired or something? I don't know. They were just, I think they were bootlegs like when he bought off the internet or something. Oh, like fake? Yeah, I think he got them on Etsy or whatever.

Starting point is 01:26:01 Golly. But I'm like, bitch, that's what you fucking get for getting Zins off of Etsy. Yeah. Man, I was on those things for a while. I just kind of last couple of month or whatever. I got off them damn things. Dude, it's like we spend so much of our lives

Starting point is 01:26:13 trying to get off of some of this stuff. Now I'm just on coffee. And I quit smoking weed back in December. What made you want to quit? Dude, it was like kind of on my mind for a while, like wanting to quit. And then there was two like real big moments. First, what happened is I was I was leaving to go to the grocery store to go get some groceries and just, you know, get some shit to eat. Yeah. Dinner. our lunch. Yeah. Just some stuff to put in the cupboards, you know.

Starting point is 01:26:48 And I walk out to my truck and I'm just like this. I'm like, oh shit. Like, you know, I don't have my vape pen on me, you know, my weed pen. You're just frisking yourself. I'm just like, yeah, exactly. And I'm like, oh, shit, I got to go back inside and get my pen. And I'm just like, in my mind, I'm like, really? Like, do you really?

Starting point is 01:27:07 You can't go 20 minutes to the damn grocery store without weed. And so it just made me feel kind of weak or so. something, right? It's like, man, you can't do anything without this. You really need to smoke weed every five minutes, you know, and then, uh, it's a perspective kind of. Yeah, just like maybe, you know, I was just going on the grocery store. I'll be right back. I can get it in 20 minutes. Yeah. You can't go 20 minutes without it. Well, that's what's interesting, that feeling of that moment, like whenever it's like, if I can just let this moment pass for 30 seconds, I'm going to be fine. Yeah. But this moment feels like I'm never going to have that again.

Starting point is 01:27:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, I need it, you know? So that was kind of weird. And then the straw that really broke the camel's back was my son was sick. He had the flu or something. And he was just a little guy. River? River, yeah. He was just a little guy. And he was the first time he really ever got sick. Like, you know, he was throwing up. And it was like two days of this. and he was just like nursing and he was sleeping and I was just like, okay, he kind of seemed like he was in like a pretty good spot. And like I was like, are you guys good? Like I'm going to go upstairs and work on some music in the studio.

Starting point is 01:28:28 And my wife, yeah, he's sleeping, you know, he's good. He's just nursing and sleeping. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to go upstairs and I'm working on some music. Of course, I'm hitting my pen. and I'm working on music and playing on pro tools and shit. And then getting high, you know. And when I came back downstairs, my son had gotten worse. Like, he was like lethargic.

Starting point is 01:28:54 Like, we couldn't even get his attention. We had to bring him to the hospital. And that was the last time I smoked right there. It was like I felt like such a, you know, my son is sick and I'm upstairs getting high. Like that's the... Yeah, like a commercial almost. It was just, yeah, it was just like, man. I'm done with this shit.

Starting point is 01:29:12 And I just, like, threw all my paraphernalia away. And just, I just quit right there. Fuck, dude. Yeah. Does it feel different now? Do you feel, have you, what are some things that you notice since you quit smoking? Because you probably smoked it for a decent amount of your life. Dude, I smoked every day since I was like 11.

Starting point is 01:29:28 I mean. Oh, damn, dude. I mean, by the time I was 12, I was, like, scraping my bowl to get high, you know, I was like. Fuck, bro. Looking for roaches and shit. I've always smoked weed. The only time I ever quit, was when I was like 19, I got DUI, they put me on probation and I couldn't smoke for that whole

Starting point is 01:29:45 year. So I was just doing acid that whole year. Yeah. But, um, oh, dude, cocaine helped me quit vaping at one point. Oh, that's a, that's a different one. But it's, you know what I'm saying? It's just the way that some things kind of work out. Yeah. Well, like I said, now I feel like I'm just drinking so much coffee. It's like I got to have something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just, I've always wondered about it too because I grew up I mean dude when I was fucking 10 years old or something like dude we were like sitting in a field like huffing rubber cement until we heard mystery music in our head like I was like just a little baby you know like trying to get high and uh you know but like I said by the time I was 12 I was full on stoner kid you know and um fuck and and whatever so it's like

Starting point is 01:30:37 my whole life I had I had always you know had something like that and so I've often I've often wondered like what is life like without like drugs and getting high and drunk and stuff like what what would it be like to just raw dog life you know like and it's actually hard you know but but it's it's dude it's not as hard as like you know I feel like drugs and shit cause a lot more problems than they, than they medicate, you know. I think a scenario like that with the kid would probably, yeah, it would make you have to about face,

Starting point is 01:31:19 maybe just even that moment. It's like, I just can't, I can't risk this. I can't risk being high in case something happens to my son. No, and also, like, I grew up, you know, in a environment that was very pro-party. Yeah, I remember we talked about it last time we were podcast. Yeah, you know, beers, music. people smoking weed, even the whole culture around the music I grew up with, not necessarily the

Starting point is 01:31:43 bluegrass side, but, you know, the Beatles and the Grateful Dead and the, you know, Hendricks and all this, you know, LSD and trippy psychedelic stuff is all, it's all cool, you know. It is until it ain't, you know, until it, you know, it's fun at first. And then when it starts to take over your life or gets too much and you, or you can't stop or you, you know, you overdo it. That's, yeah, it all starts fun in games until somebody gets hurt. What's something about being a dad

Starting point is 01:32:13 that you think has been kind of surprising, dude? Has that been like a totally crazy adventure? Man, it's the best. I just... I met your son in Austin. Remember, dude, I met your son and the governor of Maine. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:25 That lady Janet Mills, dude, she was rocking, bro. Yeah, that was a good hang. I'm glad you swung by. She was rocking. And they had that pomemino cheese spread over there. Dude, who is the... The some, some, oh. Yeah, she's my business manager.

Starting point is 01:32:38 She's the, no joke. Since, she might be the nicest woman that I've ever met. She is. Just like being helpful. Like, she just like wants to be helpful. Yeah. You know? Yeah, that's what she does.

Starting point is 01:32:49 I mean, she helps me with everything on the daily. Everything. She's like my business manager, but I also, you know, she helps me like with, like, my doctor's appointments and like my, you know, every single thing she helps me with. And my manager, Bill. Yeah, she was so nice, man. And then we went to your show and Stephen Wilson Jr. was there, dude.

Starting point is 01:33:09 And I got to meet his son, which was awesome. Oh, wow. His son was there. Yeah, his son was there. And his wife was there. So that was just great. That was so cool, dude. And I got to see you guys meet.

Starting point is 01:33:19 You guys, I don't think it, I think you guys had kind of passed, but it never gotten to meet each other. Yeah, that's where I met. That was what of, was it farm aid? No, it was. It was Willie's Fourth of July picnic. Yeah. And Willie's kids were there. Micah, I got to meet.

Starting point is 01:33:31 And his wife, I got to meet, too. She was, uh... Yeah, Mike's the shit, man. Yeah, dude. I think we're gonna try to go to Farm Aid. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He should, man.

Starting point is 01:33:40 But yeah, dude, that was so great. Just seeing you and Steven Wilson, junior get to meet each other was cool, dude. Yeah, he's an interesting cat. And he's got such a cool style. You know, I think he's found his, like, his own sound. And it's cool because he doesn't sound like anything else that I've ever really heard.

Starting point is 01:33:58 Like, his guitar playing is really interesting and... Really cool. He feels like a little bit of like a time traveler or something, but I don't know where he's coming from or where he's going kind of, but it's kind of nice to see him pass by, you know? Yeah. He's, uh, and he has some sunglasses too that he just mailed me some a pair of like kind of, I think he kind of came out or like maybe did like a collab on some sunglasses, but pretty cool stuff. Oh, wow. Yeah, what's something about being a dad that kind of surprised you or does it feel like a surprise at all? Maybe like to somebody like you who like has had so many types of feelings and like kind of traversed so many different moments.

Starting point is 01:34:32 moments of highs and lows of life, that that's not as big of a surprise. It just sort of feels like life moving on. So the big one for me, I mean, besides just I would fucking rip your esophagus out for him if I had to. Like just feeling that about somebody, like I would kill someone for him if I had to. Or like, you know, like I love him. him that much that I would fillet you right here. You know?

Starting point is 01:35:07 That's awesome. That's crazy to feel that love. So it's like a new kind of love? Like is it, does it feel like a, because that's interesting? Truly, like I would take bullets. Like, you know what I mean? I believe you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:20 And I've just never felt that before. It's like I would die for him. Like I would do anything to protect him. Huh. It's just a crazy feeling. Does it feel like a part of you or does it feel like a new thing? like does that question make any sense kind of to you? Yeah, he does feel like a part of me.

Starting point is 01:35:37 Actually, what's so funny is the other day he had this like little booger and I like picked his nose and I like grab this little booger and I was like, wait a minute, like I have boogers. He came from my balls. Now he has boogers. Like this is still sort of my booger.

Starting point is 01:35:56 Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude. Like this booger was once in my balls. You're like, wow. That's so wild to me. Yes.

Starting point is 01:36:11 And then I like rolled it and I like flicked it. Fuck yeah, dude. You know? Yeah, I love that, bro. Fuck a kidney stone, boy. We on some new shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:21 But one of the one of the beautiful things about. Yeah, my fucking boogers aren't even just mine. Yeah. And now, yeah, he's got everything. Shit. Pissed. Pug. boogers and, you know, tears and everything. But, man, one of the big, like, things that I felt

Starting point is 01:36:40 like a shift in is that, you know, music has always been, like, the most important thing to me. It's, like, been my, the way I've survived, it's been my social currency, it's been my survival tactic, it's been my coping mechanism, it's been everything, and it's always been the most important thing to me. My guitar is my best friend. There's nothing that comes before. that, you know, and I used to be so worried about the music, like even just on stage, where I'm so concerned about playing well, singing well, performing good, probably because I don't want to go back to where I was, like being poor and not having food, and just living in squalor and kind of having a shitty life and, you know, sleep.

Starting point is 01:37:26 You have the uncertainty of it all? Yeah, and just like, you know, when you don't have food, it sucks, you know, and, So I think ever since I started like making money playing music or just making a living off of it, you know, like I'm like, oh man, I have to, every time I step on stage, I have to just kill it. Otherwise, like I could go back to that. Right. Like the pendulum is there every single time. Yeah. Dude, I feel that same way.

Starting point is 01:37:55 And it's like I'm always like running away from, you know, I'm never like running towards success. It's like away from poverty. And I'm scared that this is all going to go away, and I'm going to end up in some trailer smoking foils again or whatever. And so I have strangled the life out of the music before because I'd been so concerned about playing well that I'm playing hard, and I'm thinking and I'm like trying to lead the band, and I'm just like all this crazy stuff.

Starting point is 01:38:23 And it's like, man, that's not really the way to go about it, you know. And at the end of the day, we're just playing music here. it's not the end of the fucking world if you play a wrong note or you forget a couple lyrics or whatever dude nobody cares it's nobody's gonna get hurt it's not a big deal but to me it is like if i have a bad gig dude i'll be depressed for days you know yeah or something that just happened recently really dude who's your therapist man i told i want your therapist uh well her name is dr yeah she's in nashville is she yeah dude bush because some of the stuff you're saying it's like Exactly like I've just felt sometimes like in my life, dude, it's like I feel like,

Starting point is 01:39:06 like one little thing goes wrong. It's like it's going to like everything depends on me. It's not true. But it's like, and it's not everything does. Like I'm some kind of God or something. But it's just like. Well, dude, you're famous, man. But it's like, but it's like everything has to go this way.

Starting point is 01:39:24 I can't even explain it exactly. But everything feels like a lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Because you got. all these eyes on you. Well, I have my own eyes on me. It's like my own, I won't like my, I fucking, I'm under my own microscope, you know.

Starting point is 01:39:38 Yeah. But it's like, yeah, it's just like, I don't know, I just, I don't get myself enough room to breathe in there where it's like, hey, man, we're having a good time. It's kind, we're having a comedy, you know, it's like we're doing, it's like, it's like, it's like, you almost start to lose some of the laughter because you're, it's like. You're squeezing it too tight. Yeah, everything feels so life or death kind of.

Starting point is 01:39:59 Sometimes. Sometimes. It's always felt like that. Sometimes you have to allow yourself to bomb, you know, to have those better shows. They can't always, they can't all be zingers. Yeah. You know, and you have to just realize that. And so that's kind of the beautiful thing about it is like when you're truly improvising,

Starting point is 01:40:15 you're not always going to do it. Like the ball team doesn't always win, you know? Like the Red Sox don't always win, even though they just did like 14 in a row or something. Yeah. And I just went to like, yeah, one of my first ball games out there. That was pretty cool. Did you? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:40:29 Who was pitching? Do you remember? No, I don't know. I don't know enough about that stuff. But I brought my son to that. It was cool. But man, what I was getting at is, like, when I had my son, when he was, like, brand new, and then I started going to play gigs again, like, all of a sudden it's like, I don't give a shit if I play bad. I don't give a shit if I miss a few words.

Starting point is 01:40:54 And instead of, like, strangling the music, all of a sudden, I'm singing and playing. As long as they're okay, I'm free to go play and sing. As long as Bear and River and Allie are good, man, then I can go play and sing, right? And I'm not only strangling the music less, which in turn, I'm playing much better and singing better. I'm singing from a place of joy in my belly. Yeah. I'm singing, you know, and I'm playing guitar free from the restrictions of fear. and I'm truly just letting it go.

Starting point is 01:41:30 Yeah, I'm not playing out of desperation. Yeah, and I'm actually playing because it's fun, and I get to go play. And I've just realized that, I mean, I play and sing much better now. And I always also, every time I'm playing, I have this little cosmic listener that I can just look out in the crowd, but I can picture Rivers face wherever he is in the world, and I can sing to him.

Starting point is 01:41:53 He's my little guy. Really? Yeah. And also, when I walk out the front door of my house to go get on the bus and go on tour, now I have a reason to provide for my family. I'm on an actual mission, not just to go stoke my ego and to go, you know, like, oh, to go play and try to whatever, keep doing this music thing that has always been the most important thing. It's like, no, it's not the most important thing.

Starting point is 01:42:24 I am a musician. That's what I do. that's my job, but it's not the biggest thing in life. My family is. And that actually makes me play better because I'm not squeezing it so hard. And now I'm actually loosey-goosey. It's like when you look at a cheater run, if you watch it on slow-mo or something, it's like they start and the faster they run, the looser they get, right?

Starting point is 01:42:45 I mean, they start looking like a spaghetti noodle. And that's kind of how I feel my life is going right now. It's like I'm looser now and I'm just kind of more flowing. with it, and I attribute so much of that to my son because he's the only thing that is really truly life or death, like, important to me. I mean, all of this stuff is important. My music is important. Yeah. My fans are important. My career is important. So what a gift he is. Yeah. But it's not as important as River. Yeah. So it's nice to have something that trumps, you know, the music that's more important than that, you know.

Starting point is 01:43:25 Do you think you needed something like that when you, when you're looking at your life now, like you're even able to see that? Because, dude, as you're saying that, Billy, it's like, it's kind of funny because it's like, yeah, man, like sometimes you get tired. Yeah, and some of the stuff you made me, it just kind of brought up some emotions. I think there's something nice. I always feel something when a dad talks about his son, you know? I think there's something about that that, like, you know, all, like, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:43:50 It makes me feel something when I hear that. I, I absolutely love it. You know. Before I came over here today, I was working in the garage. I'm building him a little table. Like yesterday I went to Home Depot and I got like a bunch of lumber and stuff. And I'm building him this little table for him to play with his monster trucks on. And there's like this big ramp that comes down and they do a loop.

Starting point is 01:44:14 And I saw this. Me and him watched these YouTube videos. It's called Our Time for Adventures or something. It's like this guy that just basically plays with these toy monster trucks. He's like, let's go racing. And like, River loves it. And dude, I love it. It's like, I sit there and watch him.

Starting point is 01:44:31 And, you know, he just races these monster trucks. And so I'm building him like one of those tables like that. And that's what I was doing before I came over here this morning is like working on this like table for my son. And, you know, just stuff like that. It's like, like, yeah, like that, you know, like that table. Oh, sweet. And it has these like little things. He lets go of them.

Starting point is 01:44:53 And then they ramp. So I'm like building one of these for my little dude. And so he can have like a cool table to play with his monster trucks on. He loves monster trucks. Oh, it's so fun, dude. Yeah. Do you almost get to have some childhood moments that you didn't get to have through your son, but you almost have them like in reverse psychology?

Starting point is 01:45:10 Does that make any sense to you? Yeah, you get to view the world again through these kind of more innocent eyes and more curiosity, which is an amazing thing. Because I grew up really quick. I mean, like I said, by the time I was 13, I moved out of my mom's house and I was, you know, I look at a 13 year old kid right now and I'm like, oh my God, I was like homeless at that time. Yeah. Sleeping on couches, you know, like, holy shit.

Starting point is 01:45:38 I didn't really have, I mean, I had a good childhood for a little bit, but then it got, things got kind of rough and feel like a lot of my child, I had to grow up too quick. Yeah. You know. Yeah, it's a great way to put it. So, yeah, I just, man, I love playing with my son and like just, you know, his little toys and watching like cars or whatever like he loves lightning McQueen. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:59 And dude, I've watched that movie so many damn times. It's so good. That's kind of nice that you get to do that and go back and have those moments. Yeah, dude, even when I think back, when I was like 14, I moved out and lived with some other people. But before that for like about a year, I would go to school each day and I'd stay with it like a different friend's family or something. Yeah. So it would be like, I'd be at school. And all day, it's funny, I didn't even think about this until just now.

Starting point is 01:46:21 All day, part of my day was how am I going to do. to convince somebody at school today to let me stay over there. Yeah. So sometimes it would get to like fourth period and shit. Like fuck, I've already exhausted a couple of options, dude. I'm gonna fucking have to stay with somebody I don't even know, dude. And sometimes it would get a little weird, bro. Like there was like two nights I stayed with one of our janitor's families.

Starting point is 01:46:45 We had a vice principal used to sleep in the trunk of his car during fucking recess. I'd go over there. I'd go over there and I seen him get in there a couple times. So one time I mentioned that to him like a little bit of like, not like bartering, like trying to like threaten the snitch. But a little bit of me was like, dude, I fucking know what's going. Like I don't know if he was smoking. I didn't know what he was doing. But just the fact that he's over there sleeping in his trunk, I think he didn't want that information out there.

Starting point is 01:47:12 And his wife worked at the other school and said, let me go stay over there for a couple nights. But I'd always remember I'd have this big backpack and it had all because it had all my stuff in it. Like it had my change of clothes. It had my toothbrush. should just have my stuff. So it was like, you know, I forget about some of them's like, I think you're right, just growing up quick. It's like the other stuff that you're thinking about

Starting point is 01:47:32 that other kids aren't thinking about probably, you know? In a lot of ways, I'm grateful for it. Yeah. Do you think, do you think like, so say you're a dad that doesn't get to be there as much as he wants for his son, right? Like maybe you like heard from listening to some of your dad's, like tapes and stuff from the voicemails or the conversations he had with your grandmother, right?

Starting point is 01:47:52 Just this is all kind of a hypothetical. thing or say you're the kid that didn't get this some of the experience he needed right or some of the nurturing and like or just like the connection that he needed right do you think that like as a dad now like you think it matters which side of that equation you're on or either side you can get the healing from one side you know what I'm saying like is there a little bit of healing you think for like the kids like a young person out there who maybe didn't get some stuff if they are able to apply themselves as a dad. Do you think that there's some healing, like, in some of that, in the dad side of it? Does it make any sense? Sorry, I'm kind of yelling. I feel like some of that stuff

Starting point is 01:48:29 gets me kind of animated. No, man, I think like... Does it make sense to you when I'm asking you? Yeah. And I think I am trying to like maybe heal some of my childhood through being his father. Yeah. And I think as he gets older and older, I will be able to do that, you know, just I want to like be present. That's part of the, you know, another part of the reason I quit smoking dope. stuff, you know. Yeah. I just want to be there. I want to be there. He looks at me with these big clear eyes. I want to be clear, you know. Um, but yeah, just like, it's, it's a way for me to kind of, you know, redo my childhood and stuff. Now, there's this other thing that I have. Um, it's like this experiential density. Like, because of the hardships that I've been through and even as a young

Starting point is 01:49:18 man, you know, teenager, young kid. I am able to have this perspective that I feel like a lot of people don't have. And I have this kind of like terminal uniqueness in a way that's like I never feel like anybody would know what it's like to be in my shoes. Like what I've been through, what I've seen, the life I've had, you know, the trauma that I've dealt with, you know, because it's much more than just, you know, having parents that were on drugs. I mean, I was molested when I was a child. I was, you know, fucking sodomized before I was, you know, seven years old or something. Damn. You know, and so, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of shit. And I live on this

Starting point is 01:50:05 island that I feel like nobody would ever understand what it's like to be me, right? And so I think that's like more the negative side of it. But the, but the, experiential density, I think, is kind of like I can use it as a positive thing where it's like, I have this perspective. Like most people, like, you know, not most people, but a lot of people, you know, they grow up and their parents feed them and they buy them a car when they're 16 and everything's fine. And like, man, I didn't have any of that shit, you know what I mean? I had to figure it out for myself and I have this perspective that a lot of people, you know,

Starting point is 01:50:41 by the time I was 15 or whatever, I was more of an adult than my teachers. Yeah. You know what I mean? and so one thing that I've kind of considered at one point was my wife and I, we were looking at houses in Nashville and we ended up just staying where we are and we're going to like do a renovation and stuff. But we were kind of house shopping a little bit. And, you know, I was looking around at these different houses and they're all like, I didn't want any of them because they're all like on an acre and a half and they're like tall and skinny. And it's like, man, I want to live in the country.

Starting point is 01:51:15 You know, I don't like this shit. Yeah, I don't want to live in a bunch of stairs. That's what some of those houses feel like a bunch of stairs. Yeah. It's like, where are you? I'm on the stair. Yeah, like you look out the window

Starting point is 01:51:23 and you can see your neighbor, you know, washing their dog or whatever. Yeah. And it's like, but as we were looking at these houses and I was looking at it, you know, there was a couple that we were kind of thinking about. And I was like, man,

Starting point is 01:51:39 is my son going to be a kid that grows up in a house like this? You know what I mean? Because I grew up in a moldy meth house, you know, that didn't even have a furnace, you know. We just had like a wood stove that always went out. Yeah, dude. Oh, our living room was fucking sinking, dude. We'd have to have my mom's boyfriend would come and spray like this kind of foam under the fucking carpet to kind of even it out.

Starting point is 01:52:09 Oh, yeah. They're just fucking retarded, dude. I think our whole side of our apartment complex was sinking. Yeah. But no judgment. Oh, you told me about your balcony. Oh, yeah. People fucking kept stealing it.

Starting point is 01:52:20 Yeah. The balcony would just fall off or whatever. What the heck, dude? People would kept stealing it. Bring that picture up one more time, dude. Right there. That's the balcony? Yeah, it was.

Starting point is 01:52:31 They put Christmas lights where it used to be. Like, bitch, we know there was a balcony. There's still a door there. What the heck? Dude, we would come home and somebody would have stolen our fence because there was a front gate in front of the, of the apartment, and then there was a balcony, and people would steal it. How do you steal a balcony? And for what reason?

Starting point is 01:52:53 For the wood. Just for the wood? Yeah, for the textiles. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and they would use it down at their join or whatever. That's such a strange thing to steal. A balcony? But I think it was easily like, I think we didn't hammer it in good or whatever. They could just remove it really easy. Throw it on a flatbed and get the hell out of there? I think, bro, not a flat pet. People would fucking just run down the street with it on their backs.

Starting point is 01:53:17 Because three blocks away, somebody who had a new baby crib or something made out of half of it. Dude, we fucking, all that neighborhood was bananas, dude. Brough, oh, yeah. It was fucking bananas. I like to go check that place out sometime, dude. Your hometown? It was cool, dude. It was sick.

Starting point is 01:53:35 And I'll have to go up to I own you sometime, too. We're close. We wanted to be able to go up today and see some of it. But next summer we're going to have a better plan. and I'm just going to come and do a trip in Michigan. I want to go to Charlevoix so bad. What about Charlevoix is drawing you there? I just heard about it.

Starting point is 01:53:51 It sounds kind of magical. I want to go to Travers City. Traverse City, I understand. But, like, I mean, Charlevoie, too, it's a nice place. Don't get me wrong. But I just feel like Traverse City would be, like, the more destination. Charlevoie is, like, a smaller place, like, outside of Traverse City. There's, like, water there and marinas and stuff like that.

Starting point is 01:54:08 I guess I just can't imagine it. Dude, we went into Lake Michigan yesterday. dude we took a ride on a boat in the Chicago River and dude it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen through the city. Oh wow. If you ever get a chance,

Starting point is 01:54:25 honestly it really is like because I just couldn't even believe it and I was like oh I've never gotten to go like on a boat through like a middle of a city kind of I know you can do that here in Grand Rapids but it's just like you know Chicago's just a bigger entity there. Kind of like reminds me like Amsterdam or something there's all those little canals.

Starting point is 01:54:40 Oh yeah, Venice and Amsterdam. Oh yeah. Amsterdam has a ton of of them. Dude, what about, what's that island place with the dunes? You've ever seen that place? Sleep in bare dunes. Is that cool? It's very cool. Yeah, dude, I heard about that. Yeah, it's a beautiful place. Michigan has some, like, damn near tropical, like paradise. Like, look at that blue water, dude. There's not water like that anywhere, and it's freshwater. Bro, that's what I'm saying. Like, even when I got into Lake Michigan, yeah, in Chicago,

Starting point is 01:55:07 like, we went off the coast a bit. I never knew it existed like that. Like, I knew the, like, I knew the lakes were there, but... Yeah, we gotta keep it a secret, bro. We shouldn't even talk about this. Okay. I don't want any more people. No, some stuff, do you want to keep it a secret. But we went to that Field of Dreams baseball game.

Starting point is 01:55:24 Where was that at? Dyer'sville, Iowa. You ever seen that movie? It's an old movie. Yeah. Yeah. So we went to Dyer'sville. Oh, I saw a video.

Starting point is 01:55:31 You ate a bunch of peanuts. Oh, yeah, dude. I ate like six bags of peanuts. I ate almost 400, probably 400 peanuts. The guy kept... Well, each peanut has like two, sometimes three. So you might ate 800 and something. I don't even think about that.

Starting point is 01:55:44 You know what I mean? Yeah, I didn't even do... Because each peanut has two nuts in it. So if you ate 420, you made 880 peanuts. Fuck yeah. I don't even think of that. It's fucking close to a thousand, bud. Damn.

Starting point is 01:56:00 Fuck you. You know what I'm saying, bro? Dude, next time break a thousand. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, I'm going to run for mayor of Chicago now, dude. If I can eat that many peanuts at a ball game, dude, the guy came over and had to sweep up the nut shell.

Starting point is 01:56:12 I was like four times, dude. There were fucking birds overhead. Like, fucking, they were pissed and we created so much, like, probably usable material for nests and shit. But it was that, yeah, dude, that was just a great experience. I just loved them, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:56:26 I love the Midwest. I love the people. I've always heard about, um, yeah, they're some of the players. They come out of the corn? Came out of the corn. No way. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:56:33 One came out of the closet, I think. Dude. Dude, one day, yeah. That's epic. And you even, they had a corn like built up to walk up to it and stuff like that. And I got to meet Patrick Renna, the guy from Sandlot. He was the great Hambino in Sanlott.

Starting point is 01:56:48 And then just got to see some of the players. They had Joe Mower, Scott Rowland, Lee Smith, The Hawk, Andre Dawson. Joe Ryan was there. And the twins. They gave me a new hat too. Nice. I see you've been rocking that Detroit hat pretty heavy. Dude, yeah, well, because one of the nice,

Starting point is 01:57:11 is, or like, one of the dopest squads that ever came out to see me, like, the guys that ever came to see me play where some of the, uh, Tigers guys came one time to see a game. Rogers, Scoobel, um, Carpenter, some, some, some, just some of their different pitchers came out. And it was just awesome, dude. And they, like, were just, it was like, probably two or three years ago. And there was, like, a little, they were younger and just, like, their energy was like, they were just fucking, like, ecstatic. But they were all, like, really nice guys. Nice. So that was just a good experience, dude. Oh, it's sick to see that.

Starting point is 01:57:41 English D out there. And then here I am in Michigan, which is kind of crazy, like the things you kind of, like, maybe, I didn't know that I would be here today, you know? Yeah. And getting to spend time with you, dude. Dude, thanks so much for just kind of thinking about some stuff. I want to ask you, I want you to see if you can tell me this story. I know you got to meet Bob Dylan, right?

Starting point is 01:58:02 Can you tell me that story or do you not want to tell it? Sure. You can? Yeah. Yeah, so we were on tour with Willie and Bob. And this is one of my favorite stories, dude. Yeah. And, you know, I don't take this for granted, you know.

Starting point is 01:58:21 I remember when the thing first came to me, the offer, it was kind of put to me in a way that was like, okay, well, we could go do our own tour and like, probably make a lot more money. Or we could go on this tour as an opener. but we're going to be able to, you know, go tour with Bob Dylan and Willie. And it's like, dude, we're going with Bob and Willie. Are you kidding me? Of course. And so every night we played with them, me and the band would, like, finish our set. We would hurry up and go back to the green room, like, you know, have a snack or whatever, and then, like, get right back out there, get our good seats,

Starting point is 01:59:03 sometimes just on the side of the stage and watch Bob Dylan play and then watch Willie play. You know, and so it was just every night was just like, we watched them intently every night because like I said, we do not take this for granted. So actually, I need to rewind a bit to tell you the story about Bob Dylan. Somebody had told me, T-Bone Burnett actually told me. He lives in Nashville.

Starting point is 01:59:31 Yeah. He friends with Jeff Bridges. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love Jeff. Dude, Aunt Crazy Heart. Yeah. Such a good movie.

Starting point is 01:59:39 Yeah. But so T-Bone's like, hey man, Bob Dylan's like a big fan of yours. He keeps bringing you up and stuff. And I'm like, what? You know, that's crazy. And then my manager says that one of Bob's people, one of his managers or something, kind of just told my manager, Bill, the best way to get a hold of Bob is to write him a letter. He likes letters. So I was going to write him a letter. And I remember. I remember, I was staying at St. Cecilia in Austin, and I walked in the room, and they had this really great paper there, like this stock paper. And I thought, well, this would be cool because it's from like a hip hotel and it's nice paper. I'm going to take this paper. This is what I'm going to write my letter to Bob Dylan on. And then I never did. A whole year passed. I procrastinated. And then the next year passed, we're doing Austin City limits or something. I was in Austin again, and I stayed at the St. Cecilia again. And I walked in that same room I stayed in last time,

Starting point is 02:00:41 and I saw that paper again, a year later. And I go, man, screw this. And I just set my backpack down in my luggage. I grabbed that paper and I went straight up to the cafe and I had a coffee and some eggs. And I sat there and wrote Bob Dylan a letter, just basically, you know, saying thank you and just thank you, you know. And telling them about how I, you know,

Starting point is 02:01:04 loved the way Doc Watson used to play his songs and stuff. And so after that, you know, I had heard that Bob was excited about this letter that he got from me and stuff. And I was like, okay, well, that's, you know, I don't know what to believe, right? And we get on that tour, we play like a couple gigs and we're opening for Bob. And then one night after our set, before Bob goes on stage, well that was when I sat in actually the first time I met him was at the Hollywood Bowl and I was standing backstage after his set and my security guy Jim was like here stand over here and I just thought like I was in the way like they were going to move some road cases or something but no Bob was coming off stage in this huge North Face parka and right as he was walking by somebody was like hey that was a great set Billy and he stopped in his tracks and he was like Billy and he walked right up to me and he was like man thank you for the letter. And I was like, man, thank you, Bob, for the music, you know. And he shook my hand. Oh, yeah. And with his hand. Yeah, with Bob Dylan's hand. He shook my hand.

Starting point is 02:02:19 And my hand is like tingling right now, just talking about it. Every time I talk about this story, my hand starts tingling. That whole night, it's like vibrating. I shook his hand. And I looked him in the eyes and he said, you know, thanks for the letter. And I told him thank you for the music. And then he walked away. Did he have a good hand? Yes, yeah. It was nice little hand. And that whole night, my hand was just tingly. Like it was, it was like I touched a magic crystal or something, you know? And so now every time I tell this story, it does the same thing. But later that night, I was like, it's either like some crazy beautiful energy.

Starting point is 02:03:06 Like he's just got this magic or it's like, you know, some leftover Ben Gay or something is what I was thinking. Yeah. But then so like the next night on tour or a night or two later, we played our set and I'm sitting in the green room and then I was like smoking a bowl or something

Starting point is 02:03:26 and this lady walked in and she's like, Bob wants you to play with him tonight. And I was like, what? what? And she's like, are you too stoned? And I was like, no, I'm not stoned enough, you know? So I'm like, okay, fuck you guys, it's happening. Bob asked me to sit in. So I'm, I'm like walking out to my bus, because I know his band, they all wear black and stuff. So I was like, I got a black shirt. I can put my hair in a ponytail, get a little bit more classy. Blacking up a little, me darken out. Yeah, to get a little bit more classy than whatever T-shirt I had on. Right. You know,

Starting point is 02:04:01 I'm fixing to play with Bob Dylan. I want to go put a nice shirt on. Yeah, yeah. And pull my hair back. Oh, yeah. And as I was walking out to the bus, I saw him. He was walking right toward me. And he just came up to me.

Starting point is 02:04:12 And he said, you know, let's do it all along the watchtower. He's like, just, you know, I sing the first verse and second verse. He'd play after the second verse. You know, and then he walked away. Like he didn't say hi. He didn't say, thanks for playing or nothing. He said, let's do the watchtower. play after the second verse.

Starting point is 02:04:34 Just information and stuff. And then on this way to the stage. And I was like, oh my man, this guy means business. Yeah. So I went to my bus. I got my nice digs on. I said. And then I was, you know, texting my mom and dad.

Starting point is 02:04:47 And, you know, I called my mom. I was like, you're not going to believe this. What did she say? She just, she was always over the moon about stuff like that. She called me her dreamweaver is what she called. like, who are you going to play with next, you know? Because I, all, so many of her heroes I had met and played with, you know, or, you know, I, mom, I just met Eddie Vedder or, you know, mom, you know, not going to

Starting point is 02:05:13 believe this, David Grisman or, you know, Del McCurry and, you know, all this stuff. And then more. And Fleetwood Matt? More recently. Stevie Nix? I've never met her. But. That would be a crazy collab with you guys.

Starting point is 02:05:28 Yeah. Anyway, go on, sorry? Yeah, I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm. getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. She's like, what the fuck? You know? Like, who, who are you? Like, who do you think you are? It's like, I don't know. He just asked me to play. So, so yeah, man. I'm your son. So yeah, I go out there and it was amazing. I mean, we played. The cool thing about that, too, is that whole tour. That was my favorite song that they were doing. I mean, I love all along the Watchtower, and of course, Jimmy Hendricks's version, but they had this

Starting point is 02:05:58 cool arrangement of it. And it was like such a hip version of it. And it was like such a hip version of it and I just, that was my favorite tune that they were doing. Um, and that's the one he asked me to play on. It's just like, wow, you know, and so yeah, he sang, sang the second verse, and then he kind of looked over at me and I played, passed it back to him. We had a little musical conversation and then I, that was it, man. I played with Bob Dylan. It was like, holy shit, you know, and I walked off stage and I go in the green room and like, my whole band is like so excited. they're like making toasts and shit. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:06:33 You know, especially my bass player, Royal, has like just been on a huge Bob Dylan kick the last couple years. We just couldn't believe this happened, really. Shout out Royal. Yeah. So then we're sitting in the green room and we're all just like, oh my God, that was amazing. And then Jim, my security guy, he comes in and he says,

Starting point is 02:06:55 hey, somebody wants to say hi. and in my green room walks Bob Dylan. Dang. And he sucked the oxygen out of the room. It was like everybody just like fell silent and like couldn't breathe. And then he was like, man, you know, thanks for playing. Like that was awesome. And I go, man, thank you for having me, man.

Starting point is 02:07:17 I was such an honor to play with you, you know. And I was like, I want to introduce you to my band. You know, this is Royal and Billy and stuff like that. And then I, you know, he just like turned around and walked away. I was like, what? No way. Dude. And then a couple days after.

Starting point is 02:07:36 He's just busy Bob, dude. Dude, he dipped. He was like, and then just left. And then, and we loved it. He thought it was amazing. Oh, it's fucking almost, bro, it almost, it's even better. Yeah. That's the most lower shit you could do.

Starting point is 02:07:51 Dude, he just literally, I was like, I want to introduce you to my band. And he just turned around and left. I was like, wow. Yeah. What a badass. And then so... Yes, dude. A couple nights later, he sent me a message through one of his managers, and it just said, you know, thanks for playing.

Starting point is 02:08:14 Like, I think you're great. And he said, like, my friend Jerry Lee told me a long time ago. He said, you're going to be around for a long, long time. And I just, man, I, like, was in the back of my bus, like reading the... and just cried. You know, I mean, this Bob Dylan kind of pat me on the back. And so... First of all, it's unbelievable, dude.

Starting point is 02:08:37 It's such a great story. It's like I can feel it, dude. It's almost like I'm like, yeah, dude. Well, I know one of the craziest things is that the few interactions I had with them, which was like three or four over the course of a couple days. And I talked to him and I looked at his face and I spoke directly to him and I looked in his eyes. I can't picture his face. I can't picture.

Starting point is 02:09:03 I didn't see the skin. When I think about him, what he looked like, all I see is these deep oceans of blue in these deep concerning eyes and this white light behind them. That's what I picture when I think about, what did Bob Dylan look like to me? all I can see is these the deepest bluest eyes with the most concerning emotion in them

Starting point is 02:09:35 and then this like aura of like white light that's what Bob looks like to me in my memory yeah I can't I can't remember his face right you know like yeah like it's almost something that's like almost like maybe from another realm or something like I think gotlia like God's concern like shows up in our eyes I think so maybe he just has a lot of like concern from the other side you know yeah and it's it's not a um a paranoid concern it's more of like a compassion and and a like like a love like from an elder mm you know yeah maybe like like a kind of semi-aggressive intrigue kind of like a some kind of musical grandpa you know yeah dude bob dillon bro wow yeah yeah

Starting point is 02:10:28 Yeah, it's a trip. And then, like, a little while after that, I got to play and make music in the studio with Edgar Winter. And he was, like, one of my mom's favorites, you know, him and John. Edgar Winter, and who else? Yeah, well, Johnny Winter, his brother. Johnny Winter, bring up a picture all these guys. Let me get a gander at him. Yeah, they look like...

Starting point is 02:10:46 Oh, wow. They kind of look like Targaryens, man. They're albino. Yeah. He looked like Sia a little bit. You know who Sia is? No. But Johnny Winter is one of the best guitar players to ever live, man

Starting point is 02:11:02 Oh my gosh, bro. He's one of the best little skinny, scrawny albino dude and he played with muddy waters and all sorts of shit. He was one of the best blues players ever, man. Played with the slide, played, you know, acoustic, everything. But he's the man. And then Edgar Winter, you know, you've heard like, free ride take, you know, that's his jam.

Starting point is 02:11:23 And then you remember, so Edgar Winter had a huge hit that was an instrumental song called Frankenstein. You ever remember that? Da-dan-dan-dan-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-dha. That's Edgar Winter, man. And the cool thing about that is that... Did you get to talk to him? Yeah, no, he's actually become a good friend of mine.

Starting point is 02:11:46 He came and played with us at Bridgestone Arena when we played, and we were in the studio for like a day or two working on some stuff for his record that's going to come out at some point. But yeah, Edgar Winter is one of the sweetest, sweetest people. Wow. And Johnny's alive too? He passed away.

Starting point is 02:12:08 When did he pass away like 2012 or maybe a little bit after that? 2014. Yeah, 2014. Oh, they're Switz, huh? Well, no, that's where he died is in Switzerland. They're from Texas. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:12:26 Yeah, he was on. on the road. Wow. I think he died in his hotel room. Oh. Yeah. So that was my mom's dog right there. Really?

Starting point is 02:12:36 She loved him. I'm going to have to listen to some of their music today in honor of her on our ride later. Yeah, listen to like just the self-titled Johnny Winter album from 1969. And then for Edgar Winter, listen to White Trash. Like, it's just some of the funkiest stuff you're ever going to hear, man. They got this one tune. It's the first track on the record called Give It Everything You Got. And I remember I was tripping hard on acid one day. And I was down by the river and I slipped and I fell down this mud bank and I landed like waist deep in the water and I was just splashing.

Starting point is 02:13:11 It was also October in Michigan. It was kind of cold. Yeah. But I got out and I climbed back up the bank and I was soaking wet but I didn't feel wet. Oh yeah. Because I just, I think my brain was wet. Oh yeah, because you were having a good time. Yeah, I was already tripping. And so I walk home and I'm sopping.

Starting point is 02:13:29 I walk in my mom's back door. And she's like, what are you doing? I was like, well, I took some acid. And I went and fell in the river. She's like, oh, you're on acid. And she drops the needle on, give it everything you got. She put that record on for me to hear. And I just sat there in front of the speakers.

Starting point is 02:13:46 And I listened to that. And when the song ended, I moved the needle back over and I listened to it again. And I listened to it again. I was in this loop of give it everything you got. There's these crazy saxophone solos and everything's pan stereo and it goes right to left. And it's just, dude, it's so good. That whole album is good. And there's a couple tunes on there, one called Fly Away that I can hardly listen to without crying because it was one of my mom's songs.

Starting point is 02:14:13 And it really reminds me of her. That's called, and that's the Johnny Winter's album? That's the Edgar Winter album called White Trash. White Trash. Yeah. And then the Johnny Winter record is just, it's just called Johnny Winter. Yeah. Dude, what a crazy pair of brothers they must have been.

Starting point is 02:14:28 Couldn't you even imagine? Oh, man, they were really musical, you know, and Edgar's, he's amazing. I wish I would have been able to meet Johnny, but, you know, I've listened to a lot of his music, and I just love him dearly. I mean, gosh. So I feel so lucky to have been exposed to good music like that from my parents.

Starting point is 02:14:49 You know, they, as far as I'm concerned, man, they listen to good music and they taught me about it, you know, And so that's the thing is like when I was in middle school and stuff. I mean, I don't know what kids were listening to back then. I wasn't listening to that. I was listening to, you know, John Lennon or whatever. My teachers always thought I was kind of like, who is this kid, man? He's like wearing a Jim Morrison T-shirt, you know?

Starting point is 02:15:13 Like, what's he doing? Yeah. Like, how does this end? And I'm like going to the library, like, trying to find books about like Janice Joplin and stuff. And I'm just like in sixth grade or whatever. Yeah. Some of my teachers thought that was really cool. the ones that were like around in the 60s and stuff, the older cats.

Starting point is 02:15:27 Yeah. I used to get like, I almost want to say like special treatment or something because of that. Because like some of my teachers that were old hippies are like, man, this cat's sick. Oh, dude, yeah. If you're teacher, if you're into something that they're into kind of, or they think there's something a little bit different about you, I think it makes sense that a teacher would be like, oh, this kid's cool. There's something going on with this kid. I'm curious to see. Like we had this teacher named Miss Plash and she was cool.

Starting point is 02:15:54 man she was like our poetry teacher and we go in there and it was like all the misfit kind of kids were in there and you'd have like you know people that just wore extra lipstick on different parts of their face and shit and like um and uh and we go in there and we got to write poetry and it was kind of this weird like like well not weird but it was just like this like um i don't know it was this group of it was just different than the norm and it was like a place where it felt like okay i could share how i feel and there was a little bit. any other place in school really to do that like in regular school you know like like you were talking like one-on-one with a buddy but just like to go in there and write poems and like think of

Starting point is 02:16:33 things together and you go in there and like they'd have a lot of like some some kids that were in kind of like I don't want to say school shooty garb or whatever but just like you know we'd have like kids wearing like I'm trying to think of um it'd be like sometimes like trench Cody or less like big combat boots and stuff yeah combat boots dude or we'd have like um Doc Martin's right And the higher the Doc Martin, like kind of the, like, it got to a level where it was like normal, kind of wild. And then just like, and then like someone was like kind of perverse or whatever. Yeah. Like way up to the thigh.

Starting point is 02:17:07 Yeah, like way up to the cooter even, you know. It was like, damn, dude. You definitely ain't no hoodhopper. Yeah, yeah. You ain't no rancor. But it would just be like, I don't know. And you'd see like, they'd have like a hippie girl in there who never wore a bra. And that would make you fucking go to class every single day.

Starting point is 02:17:24 day, bro. Because you could just, if you closed your eyes, you could just hear her tits. You know, like it was just that age. Remember when you had that much hormones when you were in high school? Yeah. If you closed your eyes, you could just hear somebody's tits, dude. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, they sound so soft. Oh, welcome to Ohio, brother. Yeah. I just feel like that's the most Ohio thing ever. Um, dude, thanks so much, man. I'm excited about your new album. Can you just tell me like one or two things about it? I've read somewhere that it's in honor of your mother. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:18:01 You know, I think a lot of it, you know, I was writing shortly after she passed and stuff. So yeah, it's kind of dedicated to her. And it's kind of an interesting thing. I mean, I kept wanting to call it so much for goodbyes. And I just, I was thinking about that for a while. Because I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to my mother. So that's kind of how I thought about it. I was like, well, so much for goodbyes, you know.

Starting point is 02:18:28 I guess I'm not going to get a chance to say bye. And when I brought it up to my manager, I said, I think I'm going to call the record so much for goodbyes. And he was like, man, that's cool. It's like, you know, because it's not really goodbye. It's just like farewell for now, right? And I was like, oh, that's not really how I was thinking of it. But yeah, that's kind of more positive thing.

Starting point is 02:18:49 Yeah, like so much for goodbyes. Like it doesn't even, that doesn't matter. Yeah, because it's, you know, she's still kind of. kind of with me no matter what. Oh, I'm sure she's hitchhiking. Dude, she might have just got tired of kind of rocking around this galaxy. She might have just be hitchhiking out there. She's probably in Sedona somewhere in some, you know.

Starting point is 02:19:06 Oh, she's probably fricking nested up in a wind chime somewhere fucking living it up. Yeah, totally. You know? Yeah. But I do believe that when we think about other people, when we speak their name out loud, when we make music for them, when we pray for them, I believe that people can feel all of that. Yeah. I don't really even doubt it because it.

Starting point is 02:19:24 just feels so bigger than us yeah you know right after she died I kept there were so many little things that I would feel you know like just these like certain animals would come around or whatever and like a dragonfly or I'd see a dough with like two fawns and I'm like man that it would just break my heart you know I mean it's like that's my mom and that's me and my brother or whatever you know and it for a minute there it was like pissing me off It's like, I don't want a fucking dragonfly. Like, I want my mom. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:19:58 Like, fuck that dragonfly. You know, but now I look for those things, you know, a cloud or whatever it is, just the way the breeze feels. But my mom, she was an amazing artist. She would constantly be calling me saying, hey, I took this hubcap and glued this to that. And I made this little alien, you know, battle. And I did this. And so she always made this. this stuff. And this was actually the piece that she was working on the night that she died

Starting point is 02:20:29 because she was always going to make the next record cover. That was kind of our deal. So this thing that's in the frame with the hand and the little crystal ball and stuff like that. It was unfinished. So we kind of like filled the back in with some portraits and stuff like that. But this was the last piece that she was working on. And it kind of encapsplicated. It really and you know it's it gives her essence of just kind of how she was I mean she was she was like a million little things all glued together and um very erodescent and um so that's the art that we chose for the cover and um you know she got to make the the record cover like she wanted to so stoked on that and yeah the songs I think a lot of them are about

Starting point is 02:21:24 just kind of what I was feeling at the time. And, you know, there's a tune on there called Wrestling and Angel. There's one called Still Eye Crash, which is like pretty much me exactly. I think I wrote that like days after she passed. Just like me speaking to her, you know, talking about how I just feel like I'm, I got to learn how to walk all over again, you know. I feel like a baby deer and my legs are all wobbly. And I'm just trying to learn how to walk.

Starting point is 02:21:54 to stand up on my own this time, you know, without her. And it's a, you know, so it's a pretty, a deep record. But there's some good stuff on there, you know, there's some bluegrass on there. And that Miltown flood, that's like a real, there's like some real characters that really were from Mewer back in the day and stuff. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:22:14 You know, I grew up in Mewer, Michigan, which is like. Yeah, remember you talking about that? Yeah, it's like, there's like 600 people that live there or something. And nowadays, it's kind of like a little. just a tiny little town doesn't have that much popping, but back in the 1800s, it was like kind of popping, you know? Like there was like this whole little strip, and they had these gristle mills and sawmills,

Starting point is 02:22:39 and they would float the logs down the Grand River down to the sawmill, and then they'd chop it all up, and then when the railroad came through there, then they could put all that lumber on the railroad and ship it out to, you know, Milwaukee or whatever. Yeah. And so it was a hustling little place. There was this guy named Darwin Lion.

Starting point is 02:23:03 He was the station agent at the Grand Trunk Railroad's Montrose Station, which was later named Muir. But yeah, so he was the station agent there in Muir. And this family, the Blanchard family, was like some of the first people that, like, settled there and started making shit happen and so I like used some of those

Starting point is 02:23:28 characters and then kind of made this sort of fictional story about some actual non-fictional characters you know so I like that tune I think that was a cool thing I've been infatuated with like the history of

Starting point is 02:23:44 the area of like you know just the Grand River Valley well I know you have a you have a concert you have your Freak Fair, is it Freak Fest? The I own your Freak Fair, yeah. Yeah, I own your freak fair. And that's something you started, right?

Starting point is 02:23:58 Yeah. Yeah. But I just think it's awesome to create something that people from your area can be a part of, you know? Oh, man, I've been trying to do this for years. I've been wanting to bring a festival to my hometown for a while now. But yeah, we got a bunch of good bands coming. You know, Green Sky, Leftover Sammons, here, a hole. Michael Cleveland and the Flamekeeper.

Starting point is 02:24:19 Yep. Lindsay Lou. and then we're going to have like this tent where we're going to have some metal bands Bain, Cryptopsy, Flesh and Blood, Robots, see you next Tuesday, for the Fallen Dreams.

Starting point is 02:24:32 Some of these bands I used to run around with back in the day when I played in metal bands and stuff. Oh, full chord. Yeah. Dude, that's so cool, bro. What a great thing to just bring to your area. Just a great weekend of music.

Starting point is 02:24:45 It's going to be sick. That's like in two weeks. Yeah, man. It's going to be awesome. Hell yeah. Yeah, dude. Thanks so much, man, just for catching up today and stuff for inviting us here, like just to be in Grand Rapids.

Starting point is 02:25:00 Like, it's cool, man. I remember when I came here, we did a show here, and it was great. I actually have a friend that named Paul that lives here that I just realized on the way in town, and you know if I'm going to be able to get to see him. But love you, Paul. I remember when I used to work, he and I was dishwasher. He and I was bus boys at this restaurant, and I found a, Abbey Road cassette tape.

Starting point is 02:25:22 It was the first time I'd ever heard the Beatles. And I put it in my, in my, I had a 84 Ford Escort, I put it in there. Dude, now listen to that for probably three years, dude. Yeah, I just saw your film Bus Boys. Oh, you saw it? Yeah, I loved it. Did you? Let's go.

Starting point is 02:25:40 I laughed my ass off, dude. So I didn't know you were an actual bus boy at one point. Oh, yeah, bro. I was in the trenches. Dude, I was one of the first bus boys to use creatine regularly. I was, man. We fucking did a good job on it. Bro, there wasn't a fucking dish.

Starting point is 02:25:56 Dude, I'll say this, west of the Mississippi, there wasn't a dish that I couldn't, that I couldn't fuck with. Yeah. I was fucking good, bro. I was good. I loved it so much. And then I think I got caught up in drugs

Starting point is 02:26:09 that brought me down a little bit. Was it really like that, though? Like the servers were like all hot shit? Oh, yeah. Like they were good looking and shit. And they would all fuck or whatever and you couldn't, you like, they looked at you like you couldn't even hold their condoms or whatever. Oh, man. It was just so trash, dude.

Starting point is 02:26:27 Dang it. I know. But yeah, dude. And we had a, dude, bro, we had this dude named, um, Todd. He was, they, he was like part of some work release program there in Arizona. That's where I did it at. And he would fucking be, they had a chain. He would be chained like this fucking pizza oven.

Starting point is 02:26:43 And then he was over there working. But they had like a six foot chain that he said he couldn't leave like the area or whatever. whatever. Dude, our freaking chef got busted for buying illegal shrimp. One day, like, I guess the food and beverage, like, if you go high enough in that department, some of them get guns or whatever, because they came running in, bro, kicked open the back door. They had everybody on the ground and they, like, busted the place for, like, buying

Starting point is 02:27:04 illegal shrimp. Cameronis. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? Wow. But yeah, bro. Thanks for checking it out, dude. It was a, it was crazy to make it, dude. We went through so much.

Starting point is 02:27:17 Yeah. But I think I would do something fun again like that. Dude, you should. It was awesome, man. Yeah. I love that. We did it all ourselves. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:27:26 And to make a film with David Spays, probably a dream come true, right? I can't even believe. I mean, we all grew up on fucking Joe Dirt. Oh. Dude, he shot, he did Joe Dirt. I think they did Joe Dirt too. And they shot it in Covington, Louisiana, which is oddly enough, the town that I grew up in. No shit.

Starting point is 02:27:44 Yeah. And then years later, and I, he became friends. and he's shooting grown-ups three right now out of New Jersey. Dude, I used to love just how just mean everybody is to Joe Dirt. It's such bullshit. Like the very first scene, he like pulls up and, you know, the guy's like, why don't you just drive this piece of shit off a cliff and do us all a favor? You know, and then kid rock's like such a dick to him.

Starting point is 02:28:10 That leopard fuck, it sucks. Yeah. Yeah, dude. And the crazy part is, is that them knowing each other is one of the reasons that I even got to meet Kid Rock. So it's just, I don't know. Life's the weirdest thing, isn't it? It is weird. Isn't it the weirdest thing?

Starting point is 02:28:31 I mean, yeah, it's, I feel like my life definitely is, but I feel like probably everybody feels that way. Yeah. I think it's true. I think if you get out and try and just push yourself into it. to life that there's like... Things happen. Yes. These pathways, they connect.

Starting point is 02:28:51 And there's all these circles that eventually you run back into the other side of that other circle or something, you know? Yeah. Dreams get weaved, man. Yeah. Dreams get weaved, dude. If you feel comfortable, you want to play a song for us on the way out? Sure.

Starting point is 02:29:08 Is there something? I want to ask you, too. I have a couple questions really quick. We have a quick segment that we do with the Mountain Dew since you've been. brought it up so many times. Can I ask you one or two questions? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:29:20 All right. What, should I give this try, bro? Yeah, it's sugar-free. I haven't had Mountain Dew in fucking years. Bro, let's have so. Here you go. Yeah. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 02:29:37 That's good. Wow. That's a blast from the past. Not even Baja. Just regular. Remember when they came out with Code Red, dude, and people were like, this is for Valentine. only or whatever, like rich people or whatever. Yeah, Code Red is like fucking, that's like chewing five gum.

Starting point is 02:29:57 Yeah. No sugar. Don't even have to worry about it. Zero sugar is kind of a vibe too. Same feeling. No sugar. It actually just tastes like Mountain Dew. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:30:10 Did you ever go to summer camp? No, I never went to summer camp. I don't even know. I didn't even know that was an option. Yeah. But I did one time our school, when I was in like sixth grade, I think, took us to like this like winter camp. And that was like, you know, we were all like sledding and shit. And I remember me and Mike Borton and Travis Rogers were always trying to go like sneak over and see these girls in their cabin and shit.

Starting point is 02:30:42 I remember like who was it back in the day? Marissa Smith. Oh God. Anna Conrad and like Risha Renucci and stuff. Oh, the Renucci girls were dimes, bro. I don't know them, but I just know I can only imagine and I like to imagine. Yeah. I had a big crush on Marissa Smith, but I was too shy.

Starting point is 02:31:04 Bro. Just way too shy, bro. Dude, I had a freaking crush on this one girl, this one girl, Amanda. Dude, I had the fucking biggest crush on her. This girl, I had a crush on her, dude. And I only thing I could do, I drew pictures over on my wallet. at home all the time. And my mom got so pissed.

Starting point is 02:31:26 You know, my mom ended up spanking me pretty bad for it one time. Wow. And it was so sad because I was like, I, like, loved her so much. And then I would just end up getting like spanked for it or whatever or beaten or whatever. I don't say beating because you can't say it anymore, but we used to call it beaten. So, but dang, yeah, winter camp sounds like. Yeah, winter camp. That's kind of what it was.

Starting point is 02:31:47 but a couple of my friends, my friend Matt and my friend Brendan, just dropped their kids off for summer camp just recently. Yeah. And so they're out there having fun. Yeah, dude, I wish I had to go on a summer camp. We went to like YMCA summer camp, but everybody got really bad allergies. I think the field they put us in was like the worst.

Starting point is 02:32:09 Pollin fields. Yes. It was just like right on the edge of a pine forest. And like the whole thing was just so much pollen. And people, you try to play kickball. but like two minutes into the game, people couldn't even see or play. Like,

Starting point is 02:32:21 it was people just standing around in the sun. Dude, I remember this one kid, his allergy would get so bad, he would just put his hands straight up in the air. Almost like the cops were, like the cops were getting him or whatever. But dude,

Starting point is 02:32:34 it would be so bad. And then we had to eat these hot lunches because there was nowhere to keep our lunches cold. So we'd eat like these, like, just like bologna and cheese. Like, and it was just like, you would just sweat all day.

Starting point is 02:32:46 And then your mom would, finally come get you. Like in the beginning, you would be excited. And at the end, you would like, please, mom,

Starting point is 02:32:52 come get me. And they had one kid who was kind of like mentally challenged or whatever, but he would do, he would moonwalk all day. And in the morning, everybody's like,

Starting point is 02:32:59 you're a loser. But by the end of the day, everybody's just like watching him dance and shit. Oh, yeah. If you were doing a road trip, this is the last question I have. If you were doing a road trip, what small town would you go to or would you suggest someone go to?

Starting point is 02:33:17 Oh, I have to think about this for a moment. Yeah, is there a nice one in Michigan? I know there are, but is there a nice one that you suggest? I mean? Oh, like, I mean, there's so many small towns around here. Like, if you drive in any direction, you're going to find, like, these tiny little towns that have been there for ages,

Starting point is 02:33:44 but they're just tiny. Like, there's one called Sparta, you know, Greenville, building and stuff. But honestly, I own you as a nice one? I was going to say Muir. You know, but that's, I'm obviously biased, but it's a beautiful place. I mean, it's the Maple River runs through there, and it's a tiny little town. There's some history there. There's not much there.

Starting point is 02:34:08 You might get all the copper wires stolen out of your vehicle or something. Good. They need it. Yeah. Village of Muir right there, show it to me. Well, dude, my town, Covington, Louisiana is a small town. But, dude, I went back not long ago, and I was just walking around downtown. It's great.

Starting point is 02:34:26 Yeah. There's a lot of, like, nice, like, first of all, there's a lot of great people, and it's changing. And I didn't know if I expected that when I was growing up there. Like, it's always been a place with, like, great storytelling and just, like, kind of mystery and stuff like that and intrigue. But it's turned into, like, the most beautiful little town. Village of Mirror, right there. Is that you right there, Billy? That is, yeah.

Starting point is 02:34:50 They put this sign up that says, hometown of Grammy winner, Billy Strings. It says 2021, but they need to put three time on there now. Let's update that sign, Muir. I'm going to donate to the coffers over there in Murr, so they have enough money to update that sign, dude. No joke. We're going to reach out to the city council over there and see if we can't get that updated, dude.

Starting point is 02:35:16 That's awesome. We could buy the village market and turn it into a titty bar or something. I think that would be probably a good venture. Oh, yeah. as long as we keep someone like the produce section or something. I mean, I don't want people to still be able to get fresh stuff. Hell, yeah.

Starting point is 02:35:33 You know? Yeah. Because I'm not saying the cities won't be fresh, but, you know, it's TBD, man. Yeah, I mean, it'll be something. There might be some kind of pirate-esque kind of things going on.

Starting point is 02:35:45 Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, you want to play one on the way out for us, you don't feel like you have to. We can also just call it a day. Yeah, I'd love to, man. Would you really, dude? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:35:56 Let's go. Heck yeah, dude. Man, let's see. I was thinking about this tune because we were talking about the village market and it kind of made me hungry. Yeah? Yeah. So maybe we'll go get something to eat after this,

Starting point is 02:36:56 but this will get us in the mood. All right. Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog. Shoulder up the gun and whistle up the dog. Off to the woods for to catch a ground hog. Oh, ground hog. Run here, sail, with a snicker in a green. Run here, sail with a snicker in a grain.

Starting point is 02:37:38 Groundhog grease all over her chin. Oh, ground, huh. Run here, Sal, with a ten foot pole. Run here, Sally, with a ten foot pole. Twist that whistle pig out of his hole. Oh, ground hall. There's meat in the cupboard in butter in the churn. Meat in the cupboard in butter and the churn.

Starting point is 02:38:26 If that ain't groundhog, I'll be darn. Oh, ground. Little piece of corn bread laying on the shelf. Little piece of corn. Corn bed, land on the shelf. If you want any more, you can take it to yourself. Oh, ground hog. Wanna eat up the meat and save the hide.

Starting point is 02:39:20 Eat up the meat and save the hide. The best damn shoe string that ever was tied. Oh, ground hog. Look at the fellers they're about to fall. Look at the fellas they're about to fall. They eat tail the bitches won't button at all. Oh, ground hand and then whistle up the dog. Shoulder up to the woods for to catch a groundhog.

Starting point is 02:40:18 Oh, let's go. Groundhog, baby. God. You think they're good? Would you try war? Yeah. I would too. Got a hog in it.

Starting point is 02:40:53 You know, it's not probably why, you know, I'd go in it with a baking mindset, probably, to be honest with you, I hate that. Yeah, I bet they're nice and greasy. They kind of get off easy, though, having hog in their name. Yeah. And not being, like, accosted for it, you know, not being put in that place. Heck yeah. Thank you, dude. Thank you, man.

Starting point is 02:41:18 Appreciate you, brother. Thank you. I appreciate you too, man. Thank you so much. Of course. Anything else that you want to talk about or anything else that you want to play, do you think of me?

Starting point is 02:41:28 I could try one off the new record. Yeah, if you feel okay, but don't feel like you have to. Let's see. So, you know, I was talking about Mewer and how I just get kind of obsessed with that place and just that whole Grand River Valley there. And you ever go driving through your old hometown

Starting point is 02:42:02 and just like look at your old haunts and just kind of get flooded with these memories? I'm one of those like real nostalgic types. Oh, I love nostalgia, man. Yeah. So I have this tune that's called that. It's called I'm One of Those. I'm looking for the place I used to live.

Starting point is 02:42:50 I've been driving up and down this road Trying to bring back old memories for one ring I'm one of those The turn Where the river But it's been too long And I'm a fool to try to find that place again Guess I have too much time on my hands

Starting point is 02:43:27 I'm one of those I could not find a place But if you do You'll probably understand That's how it's how it's Or shuffling even town ended up in a fight Now could I go back to the place I love to dwell Where we sang our song and passed the jug around

Starting point is 02:44:23 Well I left this road up strolling down I guess I had too much time on my I could not find a place that I could land I hope you don't But if you do you'll probably I'll see through my disguise To go back this way again I guess I had tomorrow.

Starting point is 02:46:04 I could not find a place. But if you do your problem. I'm one of those, man. Dude, that's magnificent, bro. Oh, thanks, man. Thank you so much, man. So much for goodby. So much for goodbyes.

Starting point is 02:46:44 Comes out August 28th. Yeah. Dude, that's so exciting, man. Dude, I'm one of those, man. I'm one of those. Sometimes I spent so much time in the past, I'm not just don't, you know. But at a certain point, you start missing out too much.

Starting point is 02:46:59 Yeah, I know. You got to look through the windshield, you know, instead of in the rear view all the time. Yeah, they say that's why it's bigger. Somebody said that. I don't know who said that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're giving everybody kisses?

Starting point is 02:47:14 Yeah, this thing, just the best date. I've been on in a while. So much for goodbyes. That's out August 28th, man. With your mom's beautiful artwork right there. Yep. What a creative lady. What a creative family, man.

Starting point is 02:47:30 You know? Hell, yeah. What a creative family that you're a part of. And, uh... I think on the first one, I did cocaine blues. Cucane Cicane There is this little one

Starting point is 02:48:06 I could add it on there Even just for Just for fun Since we're sitting here All right I've got the blues Those Nashville blues I've got the blues

Starting point is 02:48:45 The Nashville blues I ain't got no shoes These people hit me fine I've got the blues Those Nashville Blues I've got the blues

Starting point is 02:49:09 So much for goodbyes man. I ain't got no hat or shoes, bear. He don't got no shoes or no hat. He don't even have a car on right now. Oh, what a pleasure, man. Dude, Billy, thank you so much, bro. Thanks for coming.

Starting point is 02:51:01 This is, man, just what a gift today to be able to just sit and spend time with you to kind of go through whatever's been happening in your life. And you just share stories so well, man. You're just like, I don't know. You're kind of like this connector piece to the other side, man, and it's nice. Thank you, man.

Starting point is 02:51:17 Well, I appreciate it, and I'm glad you're doing this road trip, man, and was able to swing on up through my stomping grounds a little bit. It's kind of nice to have you here in Grand Rapids, man. Yeah, we appreciate it, man. And, yeah, and good luck with Freak Fest. Yeah. Yeah, and good luck with Freak Fest and Billy Strings, man. Can't thank you enough, dude.

Starting point is 02:51:43 All right. I can't thank you enough. Keep your stick on the eye. Yeah. Don't let your meatloaf. Watch your top knot. Keep it greasy side down. Yeah, greasy side.

Starting point is 02:51:54 Oh, I think both sides are greasy, but we'll do our best, man. If you ain't in bed by midnight, come home. Yeah. Stay out of the tall weeds. Yeah. You're a gift to this world, man, and you're a gift to us today. Thank you so much, brother. Thank you.

Starting point is 02:52:11 All righty. Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I'm not. I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. I'll share this piece of mind I found I can

This Past Weekend - #676 - Billy Strings

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