This Past Weekend - #680 - Ultramarathoner Mark Dowdle

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

Mark Dowdle is an ultra endurance athlete who just won the Last Soul Ultra in Germany, running 395 miles in just under 4 days.  Mark joins Theo to talk about the mindset that helped him win one of the toughest competitions on earth and the self discovery that comes from pushing yourself to the limit. Mark Dowdle: https://www.instagram.com/mark.dowdle/  ------------------------------------------------- Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner #CELSIUSLiveFit https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ  Better Help: This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10% off BetterHelp at http://BetterHelp.com/Theo Valor Recovery: To learn more about Valor Recovery please visit them at https://valorrecoverycoaching.com/  or email them at [e-mail] Perplexity AI: Ask anything at https://pplx.ai/theo  ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: [e-mail] Hit the Hotline: [phone] Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Mail stuff to:  ATTN: TPW PO BOX 40137 Nashville TN 37204 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend X: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpowers Producer: Trevyn https://www.instagram.com/trevyn.s/  Producer: Nick https://www.instagram.com/realnickdavis/ Producer: Andrew https://www.instagram.com/bleachmediaofficial/  Producer: Halston https://www.instagram.com/halstonrays/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He's an ultra endurance athlete known for running some of the most brutal marathons in existence. He just completed the last sole ultra in Germany, 395 miles in four days. I enjoyed my time with today's guest, Mr. Mark Dowdell. You can drop this down just a touch. Yeah, and if you need to move it or whatever, if something's getting weird, just do whatever you got to do. Okay. Yeah, dude, you're a freak, bro. Like a nice freak.

I appreciate that. Yeah, not like a carnival one, but the race you just won, it's called the Last Soul Ultramarathon. You ran 395 miles in just under 94 hours. Yeah. Without sleep, it's a backyard ultra. Yep. For our listeners that do not know, can you explain what a backyard ultra marathon is?

Sure. Yeah. Backyard Ultra is when you run 4.167 miles or 6.7 kilometers every hour on the hour until one person's left. So it's also people call it the last person standing. So you have 59 minutes and 59 seconds to complete this four mile loop. If you run it in 45 minutes, you get 15 minutes of rest. If you run it in 52 minutes, you get eight minutes of rest. And you just keep doing this same loop over and over again until either you. you timeout, you physically can't go anymore, or you mentally just are done. And the real obstacle of this race, yes, is the physical aspect to it, but it's dealing with the unknown because you don't know when the race is going to end. And so it's a constant battle between how do I stack up against these other people? And it's a big game of trying to bring yourself back to the present and not compare yourself of how you perceive your pain,

because we're all experiencing pain out there, but I can only feel my pain. And then I look at somebody else who might be doing a good job of posturing, and I will perceive myself as worse off or less than or not capable enough because of a perception that I've created in my mind about who they are compared to myself. Wow. And so the thing I love about this race is, yes, it's a physical thing, but it is like every loop, I have to make a commitment to say the story in my mind that I'm creating is not the full truth. And can I take one more step?

And it is a constant recommitment to that process of like, I can do this if I take one more step. That's evidence I can keep going. And it's a, it's, the race is blown up a lot over the last couple years. And I think a lot of it has to do with how accessible it is. Like if you've never run a mile in your life, it's more digestible to say, I can try and complete one loop of four miles over, I'm going to sign up for a half marathon

and do months of training to get to that point of being able to run 13 miles or 26.2 miles. So you might have a lot of people sign up just like, oh, I can do four miles and I can at least do one loop. Yes. And that's the beauty of it is, We're all on the same loop at the same time. And so I go for almost four days and somebody out there went for three loops.

And the relationship to hard is equally as difficult for that person as it is to me. It is both of us trying to figure out how far can we go. And then when we come up with obstacles, how can we just take one more step forward? You said like the story in your mind that you start to create that I guess it's like a story of like defeat or that I can't. Like, what, what stories do you notice your mind start to create? That's a great question. I think it is, I'm not good enough. I'm not capable enough.

I'm not worthy enough. This race, the outcome of this race is going to determine my value or not. Like all of these things that I know aren't true. And this is the power of having friends like Cody who's here with us or my wife or my friend Kellan who was out there at the race is every time I get to go back into the tent where they're sitting, I know in my heart of hearts,

even out when I'm on the course and I'm 60 hours into the race and the story starts to be crafted in my mind of, I'm not good enough. I get to go back to a tent full of people that say, not through their words necessarily, but through their actions and through the trust we've built is like, dude, whatever happens here,

is not going to change how we feel about you, how we love you. We're going to be proud of you no matter what. They just want me to be able to make a decision I'm going to be proud of at the end of the day and be able to honor my word, honor my commitment of taking that step when I know I'm able to. And so the narratives are constantly going of like trying to convince myself that I'm not done yet. even though every logical reason to stop has presented itself. Wow. So it's almost like you stop and get like an emotional hydration in a way.

Yeah. Wow. So the funny thing is I think about it in terms of these like highs and lows of the first 24 hours are always the most difficult because I haven't invested enough into the experience to really see the benefit of that outcome or going through. that hellish experience to be worthy or valuable of any side. Once you get through those 24 hours, you start to get into the experience and you start to feel the effects and you're like, okay, let me just kind of settle into this feeling, this experience and really test out what it's really

trying to teach me about myself. There always comes a moment because after you kind of get out of that first lull, you start to slowly decay. And it's from a physical side, it's a mental side, It's a spiritual side. And there's always a point in the race where I need to cry. Like, crying is my release point of all the tension, all of the burdens that I'm holding on to, all of the pressure that I'm putting on myself about what this race means, what it means about me, what it means for my family. And so 62 hours into this race, I called Cody and I called another friend.

and I was just like, I just need to verbalize that this is so hard. This is so hard. And the problem with it being so hard is I know that I'm not going to stop. And because of that, that means I have to keep walking into this pain and I have to keep going towards it. And that sucks. That sucks, that realization that you know it's going to be hard. You can't imagine it being more difficult than that.

And yet you have to say, I'm going to stay right here. And when I can verbalize that with somebody that knows, loves, and trust me, and they can sort of reinstate the belief of why I'm there and I can cry. It's almost like I'm rejuvenated in that moment because I've released myself of all this external pressure and I've let myself and my body release itself of that tension. And then I'm like, oh, okay, let's go. Oh, dude, yeah.

After you cry, you feel great, which is crazy. And dude, I've thought about this for a while, actually. Crying is not like, if you're like crying because like you did, something didn't happen, like that's maybe one thing. But crying, it's almost like sweat from the weight that we carry inside, dude. It's like sweat out of my eyes. It's like if anything deserves to sweat, it's this discomfort. It's this weight.

It's this like whatever heaviness or whatever I'm holding on to, you know, whatever I can't understand or can't fathom or can't. like matriculate enough to be okay with me, you know? Like those are the things that's like, please God, pull this sweat out of me. Like, let me release this. And if it comes out of your eyes, that's fine, you know? Like, yeah, dude, but just to get that out, bro. I heard, I heard you say that at hour 60 of an ultra, you'll find out who you are.

Yeah. Not what you think, not what you believe, not what other people think you are. but you'll meet the person that you are out there on that course. And that's why you love them, dude. And no joke, bro, that got me out of bed to go work out, bro. It was 4.30 in the morning. I probably should have stayed in bed. But it had me that hyped, dude.

Just like hearing you talk about this relationship with yourself and just confronting that part of us that we don't want to just and just confronting this thing of quit, you know? Yeah. I think it's, it's so easy, like it's easy sitting here talking about the experience and saying, yeah, I am who I say I am. But what does it actually look like practically out in real life? And to be, truth be told, it's easy to do it in a backyard ultra for me because I've had experience with that. And let's be honest, I get applauded for it. When I do it out on the course and I have success with it, people will, applaud me for it. And so there's a certain level of selfishness in that, to be frank. But the true essence of where I build that from and how I'm able to do that out on the course is, like, I say this all the time, like, I don't get to determine if I'm a good friend. My friends get to determine that. I don't get to determine if I'm a good husband. My wife gets to determine that. And they base that off of the integrity and character that I have. And where am I getting that from?

I get that from scripture. I get that from Christ. And how do I live up to that? That is by me continuously doing the little things in my day-to-day life, even outside of like the training, the running, the stuff that gets me prepared for that. But honoring my commitments in all the little aspects of my life because this conversation right here will show up in my next race

because the story that will then be crafted is like, you're on the Theo Vaughn podcast and you talked about how you are a man of your word are you going to do that right now when it's really tough to do so? And that's scary because I can't run from that version of myself out there. I have to make a decision when it's most difficult, when it's most challenging. And I have to say, I am going to be that man, or I'm not. Or I'm going to allow the excuses that are rational justifications to convince me that I can walk away before it's my time.

Yeah, dude. Like, yeah, just hearing you have this relationship kind of with your own integrity, you know, I think it's such an important conversation that needs to kind of be happening in the world right now. And I shouldn't say that. It's an important conversation that I need to be happening with myself, you know? And I'm so, I'm just so glad that you're here kind of sharing some of your thought processes and just us even thinking about that.

Yeah. Because I like to believe I'm one person. but live kind of like another person. Yeah. And that creates a conflict in me. Yes. And it creates an uncomfortability. Yes.

And at times it creates, you know, it's created an unreliableness even to myself. Amen. And do that a lot of times, it's like when I'm with myself, that is, it's not embarrassing, you know, but it's just like I can do better. you know and I want to so I'm glad that I notice it more but it's it is an uncomfort because it's like yeah it's like I'm this but this is what I do and if those things aren't enmeshed with each other then I'm gonna I'm gonna be in a state of discomfort um well can I just say something on that like that does that make sense what I'm saying it does 100% and I relate to that so completely because

I'm sure at least what I'm pulling from that is there's a a burden to that almost because there's a recognition of there are parts of our lives that we feel disconnected to our action and our word there creates this discomfort and that can be burdensome that can be like man i'm i'm not living up to who i want to be and that can almost bring us down yes but there's a there's a flip side of that of there a lot of people don't think like that a lot of people aren't aware of that. And there is a true blessing. And one, we're never going to be perfect, Theo. Yeah. So we got to remove that and give ourselves grace and understand that through the awareness of that, we can either beat ourselves down or we can build ourselves up and say, I can do better.

I will do better. And if I fail, I'm going to continue to try and work to be better and have people in our lives that are going to hold us accountable and build us up so that we can still that we can continue to live that way. But it's a blessing and a curse because when we are aware of that, we can, man, we can beat ourselves down. The trap, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for me, it's like the discomfort kind of became just sometimes too much. But also, yeah, it's like if I hold myself to too high of a standard to some type of a perfection, right? That's such a trap. We can't, we can't do it. It's impossible. I'll do so much my life.

I would hold myself to this level that was impossible to reach, right? It was impossible to reach. So that way I was always failing. And then in always failing, it would match with some old belief of mine that I was always, that I was a failure anyway. And so it's like, it's weird.

Like in aiming for perfection, I was always setting myself up for this old magnet that was just deep inside of me somewhere that was like, you're not worth it or whatever or yeah you're a fail you're no good you're ugly you're there's something wrong with you right and so and yeah man that's been a big trap in my life and I have more awareness about it now yeah I think the place that I'm in right now is a lot of the

kind of giving myself grace just for the times that I've held myself to to to some level of impossibility you know unrealistic expectations Yeah. Do you ever feel like giving yourself that grace is giving yourself, like, cutting yourself slack that you don't deserve? Does that make sense? Yeah, let me think about it for a second. Do I ever feel like giving myself grace? Like, there's this perfect standard that you're holding yourself to. And if you fail, it's reinforcement that you're a failure. Okay. And at least that's the story in your mind. And there could, be another story of like, I'm going to give myself grace. And the negative story of that is, oh, you're just giving yourself grace because you can't hold yourself to a higher standard. Does that make

sense? Yeah, it does. I don't, yeah, I don't do that. Okay, good. But I do see exactly what you're saying. Yes. Yeah, I don't do that. I think it's just like, I just feel like I should always be able to figure it out. It's this eternal thing of like, man, why can't you figure this out? You can, like, it's not even like an encouraging thing it's not like you can do this it's just like why can't you figure this out you can figure it you know and so some of that is realizing that I can't

but then also there's a gift in it is that I don't have to do things alone anymore and that starting to realize that is going to change my life where'd you learn that? I think just when I was a kid it was just like yeah there was just nobody to rely on yeah you know

and so I just you just start to rely on yourself I think I guess where did you learn that you could rely on other people? You could rely on other people. What was the turning point for that? It's been coming new into my life, I think. I think some of it has come through like recovery. I've been just focusing back in on my recovery a lot more.

Probably developing a better relationship with God and my higher power, you know, and just realizing that I'm not alone. Yeah. You know, and it's, we're supposed to be talking about racing. But this is okay. This is great. Hey, this is the biggest race in the world. You know?

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. Yeah, so I think it's like that. And just like, yeah, leaning on other people with like what's really going on, you know, and not being afraid to tell God what's going on. Like to the word. Yeah. You know, not to be like, even sometimes words and language, I'm afraid to use that.

I wouldn't even want to use around God or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But then it's like, you got to, you know what I'm saying? Like, you got to put them in the fine print of a prayer, you know? So it's like, I think, yeah, it's like that. Yeah. Like, I think kind of being louder with the fine print of my prayers. If that makes any sense.

It does. Yeah. So, yeah, thanks for me. Think about that. I don't even know I needed to think about that today, man. It's got me sweating. That's good. That's okay? Yeah. Yeah, man.

One of the things I was so, like, that really, like, woke me up to you was just some of your, just the ways that you look at that stuff, because it's so important, you know? And I think just having a bit, I think just having a bigger relationship with myself, like a real, relationship. Like, what am I really doing here? You know? Like, who do I, you know what I'm saying? Like, asking myself some of the tougher things. And, uh, and I want to get, I want to get into that. And I know that you, I know about your journaling practice and that you have this, that you've kind of developed this relationship with yourself. And I think it's really cool. And I want to learn more about that. Um, but I want to learn more about the race for. Okay. Okay. Is that okay?

Yeah, that's totally cool. Okay. Thanks for being here, dude. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Um, so, so you talked about like, if you finish a loop first. So the loop is, let's just say it's four miles to make it easy for people. So the loop's four miles. And then at every hour on the hour, you have to go back out for the loop again. Yes. And the contenders that continue to show back up

for that loop, they're still in the race. Yes. And it keeps going on until only one person can do the loop by themselves. Yes. Got it. And when you, is there strategy in finishing that loop early so you have time to eat or

or hydrate or communicate? with your tent? Or do you want to finish right up at the minute so you just go right into the next run? Take me into some of those type of strategies. Yeah, there's different strategies for different people

on how they like to run the loops. I personally like to run the loops in 50 minutes and pretty consistently, almost like a dog that's being trained, I will come in at 50 minutes, I'll lay down immediately, I'll sleep for five minutes. And when I say sleep, sometimes it is me just laying down and resting.

Other times sleep deprivation will take its hold. And I will get like these fragmented images flickering like these photographs cycling through my mind. Like I can't even hold on to them. They're just flipping so fast. And it'll happen for, you know, five, six minutes. And then at 57 minutes into the hour, there's a. loudspeaker that'll say three minutes runners three minutes and that is your wake up call theo that is like I'm awake enough to hear that but also asleep enough to like be getting rest and so then I'll wake up

at that alarm I'll sit up I'll sit in my chair my wife will feed me dude she'll feed me yeah pancakes and syrup oh god steak and eggs at three in the morning it's so Roman oh it's great It's great. Yeah. And I'll eat for about two minutes, two and a half minutes, and then I'll walk to the start line. And you've got to be in the corral when that bell ring. So if I'm in my tent and they ring that bell, I'm out.

So you got to be in that corral. And do you have a coffee or something right before you go out? Oh, coffee, Red Bull. So you're just like a construction worker. Pretty much. You should see the stuff I'm eating and drinking out there. It is like, you know, a kid in a candy store. You're like, let's go.

And will you put a piece of gum in your mouth? Do you keep something like that to keep you like going? Like are people putting zins in? Is that a thing that people are doing? People do zins and nicotine out there. I don't. I do it in my daily life. Not entirely proud of it, but I don't do it during the race because I'm like,

this is a reward for after when it's all said and done. And it can kind of mess with your bowel system out there, you know? there's a thing called a poop loop. So you have as much time in that hour to take care of, you know, sleep, nutrition, going to the bathroom. Some people, they'll know they'll need a poop loop. So they'll run the loop in 45 minutes so they can take a poop. And then they'll be ready to go for that next loop. Can you tell when someone's on their poop loop? Oh yeah. Yeah. People like to announce it too. It's like, all right, I'm going for a poop loop on this one. So they'll just speed it up. Yeah.

Or there's sometimes there's a porta-potties right outside of the corral. So as the loop starts, you are able to use the two port-a-potties that are right there. And they'll sprint right for it. Just to get it out of the way on the course? Yeah, they'll do it right there in the first, like, few steps in the porta-pottie. And then they'll run, you know, if you're going to run a poop loop, you want to get it done before you have to run fast. Yeah. That'd be tough to carry with you if you're trying to run pretty fast.

But then there's other things like I'll get in and I'll do a 45 minute loop and I will get entirely undressed. I'll stand in a bucket of water and my wife will shower me like full service servant wife of like being able to be there and help me through this entire experience. And she's like, yep, we got to get you showered up. We got to get aquifer and lube on your feet. and in between your armpits and stuff. So is some of that like a caretaking ritual almost in a way? 100%. Yeah. So there's an emotional value to that as well.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, because if you feel cared for, then things are possible. 100%. And in those dark moments during the race, really it's not something that she says to me, but it's more of a look where I can say, Lucy, this is really hard. And sometimes she'll say it more often, it's more of a look of like, as long as, as you're in that darkness, I'm going to be right there with you. And she'll just hug me. And it's like, that hug tells me everything's okay because I'm not experiencing this darkness alone. There's somebody

who might not be outrunning the course with me, but she's back here as invested, as concerned, as, you know, experiencing the hard times as I am. And that allows me to keep going. Because somebody is there with me. You have the power almost of two people when you're doing it. Yes. because there's love and commitment there. Yeah, it's beautiful, dude. Yeah, and just the ability, just like, when someone is, like, saying something's hard, just not even to tell them something

and just give them a hug. Mm-hmm. You know? My brother does that sometimes, like, a couple times over the years I've been going through it, dude. And I, like, one time I pulled over by this donut shop and, like, I was just like, what, just, it was just like one of those times

I was, like, processing old stuff. And I was just, like, bawling in my truck. And my brother was like, and I was just telling my brother, like, what was going on. And he's like, I can just sit here with you and not say anything. You know, he's like, I have like 20 extra minutes. I'll just sit here with you and not say anything. That's beautiful. But I just want you to know that I'm here, you know?

And, dude, I melted, bro. I, like melted things that were, like, hurting from, like, I don't even know. Like, my feet got smaller, bro. I was just, I was just, I was just all these came up. You don't know what I'm saying? shoes didn't fit later, but it was just like, like, all this old stuff came up, because it just, that kind of moment, it never happened. I'm not trying to take away from your story.

It's, it's, but that's what it's about. Like, that's why I run, because I think it's such a good depiction of how, like, I really feel this responsibility to share what I experience on that course and how I genuinely think I have the success I have is because, because we get those moments. And that's the recipe for success in life. Like, how good did you feel after those 20 minutes? It was honestly, in a weird way,

one of the neatest times of my life. And you feel connected to your brother. And no words need to be said. And it's like, what else are we chasing after? Like, the win is great. Don't get me wrong. I love it. And it's part of the reason I'm sitting here with you.

And all of that's great. But like what I take away from that race and the races that I get to do is I get to create stronger relationships with the people that I love and do so in a way where we're all working towards this same mission together, not to win the race, but to come out the other side of it transformed by this experience. Bro, as you're saying that, like we have this guy coming on named Bishop Robert Barron. Okay. He's an active bishop, and he's also a historian, like a Catholic historian. Sure. And then we had this guru on the other day, Guru Dev. And both of them, I've heard say this thing that when people have like a friendship or a relationship, that's fine.

Like if they're friends, a friendship is good, right? If there's a relationship or a husband and wife, that's good. But when they have a common interest that moves them forward, those are the things that keep people together and keep friendships and relationships together. So even as you're saying, it's like you run, right? But it brings people into your world and gives them something also to care about. It gives your friends something to be associated with. And then now they're a partner in it. And somehow it's like, so it's like I think when people, it's like taking action in some way,

I think helps. Sometimes we don't realize like the actions that some of us take or things that can keep us together with someone else. And then once somebody else is on board, now you're taking that action together, right? And you have like a journey in the world. And sometimes that journey just get you through a few years. Sometimes it'll get you through a lifetime, you know.

And there's no action too small for that to happen. Like someone doesn't have to go run 400 miles in order to experience that. They can just sit in that car asking a brother for help. And that is the most important thing I get from running 400 miles. And we get to do that in our everyday life if we take action like you. said. Yeah, man, so much of its action. I quit letting my thoughts. Like, I start to notice my thoughts more. I've been meditating a lot. And I'm just having, finally, I get to see what's going on, dude. I had no idea. I was a damn video game. And now, every now and then, I have the control in my hands.

And I'm like, oh, interesting. Where even just a second, I start to notice some thoughts. I'm like, those are trash, bro. These are recyclable. That's a thought that they played yesterday. It's like, but I just, I don't know. I'm not saying I know anything. I'm just saying like, that's just been like an experience I've been having. And it's been, it's felt kind of rewarding.

Yeah, it just felt like, I don't know, it's starting to make me a little bit want to know myself even more. And that's cool, but it's also a little spooky. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you could wake up tomorrow

and be better at one thing, what would that be? for me it would be probably just listening better and not just offering an idea, just listening. If somebody asked for a suggestion, maybe offer something. But otherwise, just be a batch of ears. I think that's what I would like to do. That would just be something I'd like to do better. Better is a feeling defined by you.

And for better help, it's a better help therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. It's progress. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash Theo. That's betterh-e-l-p.com slash t-h-e-o. To get back to racing, how do you plan the calories and hydration you're going to end? take before you go out there and when you're out there. Yeah. Yes and no. I, so we go into a race having a plan that we hold loosely onto.

So, so much can happen in four days of running. The weather can change. The, you know, my appetite can change drastically. And so if I had a certain, like I'm going to eat this, this loop, and I'm going to have this amount of calorie intake, and I'm going to have this amount of sodium. To me, that would stress me out. Because if it didn't go according to that exact plan, then I would think something's wrong.

I'm going to fail. And it's like, we are so adaptable because we are made that way by a creator that we don't need to have everything planned out. We're not built to know all the answers. And so I approach a race very similarly to that where it's like I have an idea. And obviously we bring the kitchen, as Lucy and I say, we literally bring the kitchen like rice and beans and potatoes and steak.

And you can mix and match all of those to make a different meal. And my wife has gotten really good at just predicting what based on my mood, what I'm in the appetite for. Yeah, because it's almost like you come home for dinner like a hundred times. So what are you even feed someone that? Who is this guy? Get a new job. You're putting us out. So that, you know, there's not a detailed plan, but anything that I, I guess the thing that I do most is like every loop I'm eating something.

So even if it's a handful of chips. Okay. Or, you know, the best is obviously the steak and the, you know, what's it called orange slices and eggs and stuff? like that. But that's not too heavy on your system in a race? Not really. So I train it by, I'll run four or five miles to a diner and I'll shove my face full of food and then I'll run home. And I'm like, this is race prep. But you get used to it out there, you know? And that's kind of the way it is.

Yeah. You were talking about like if things are too planned out that it creates, like once there's a plan and then if things deviate a little bit, it can create like a lot of uncertainty. It's almost like when you're learning about a bike and the wheels start wobbling. It's like this like, oh, we're trying to like be too specific. And especially in a race when things can be different, right? Things, obstacles can come up like you're saying.

But I saw that you didn't even, you barely even made it to the race on time. Yeah. Your flight was delayed. Yeah. So that, honestly that, and I'll talk about it, like that is what gave me the confidence and further reinforce this.

belief that the less know what you can control and understand it's not a whole lot, right? You can control your energy and your attitude in a situation, and you can be prepared to handle what's coming up, but ultimately we have far less control than we think we have. And so the race started on August 14th at 2 p.m. German time. Wow. I had a- And the Germans are there's trouble. They're freaking dialed. Yeah, yeah. They don't even do a leap here.

Really? I made that up. But it would seem like, nine. Nine. No, no. No, no. Nine, nine, nine, nine. Nine, nine.

So I had a presentation for a company that I had committed to back in March. Okay. And it was in Alexandria, Minnesota, which is two hours north of where the airport is. So that was at 8.30 in the morning. Our presentation, get to the airport for a 115 flight. and there was a layover in Chicago and brother, I am on the tarmac sitting in the plane

for an hour and a half and I'm watching my flight to Frankfurt fly away. I'm like, I need to be on that flight because it's a four-hour drive from Frankfurt which... So you just missed it? I just missed it because... Oh, the layover flight, so you flew in one. Flew into Chicago. You were sitting on the tarmac watching your flight to Frankfurt go. Yes.

And so they rebut... booked me for a later flight, but I wouldn't have been able to make it to the race in time. So I'm on the phone with Lucy and my friend Kellan and the race director, Kim, and we're like, okay, how do we make this work? And the plan shifted from Frankfurt to flying me into Amsterdam, which is closer to first to now, where the race was. And then Kim's like, all right, the only way that we're going to get you to this race on time is if we schedule a private jet from Amsterdam to Moose.

or Moonster, and then it's an hour drive to the race. So I get on the flight, flying to Amsterdam, I'm racing through security and border patrol, and then I get to the tarmac for the private jet, and I'm explaining to the pilots who are like, who are our age, and they're just like so excited, telling them about what I'm doing there and the situation. I'm like, dude, we got to go. So we're up in the air and we're down. I'm like, man, that was, that was, that was really fast. And we're getting off the flight

and the pilot looks at me with a little smile on his face and he's like, don't tell anybody I said this. But that 45 minute trip that it usually takes a get here, we got you here in 20 minutes. What?

And he's like, you gotta promise me one thing. You won't quit on that course. Really? Yeah. And what's crazy, so Kim's dad picked me up. We drove an hour to the race

and I was there 15 minutes before the race started. Was everybody already there? Everybody was there in the starting corral. They'd already done pre-race announcements. And there's a photo of, you know, a bunch of us. Everyone's in their race gear. They got their water bottles and everything.

And I'm standing in jeans with a suitcase. So I quickly got changed. I did a quick shower, got my race stuff on. And by the time I got into the corral, there was two minutes to go to the race. Did it almost add like a new freedom in a way? Oh, it did. Yeah. And you, but the fact that you're able to process that as that, that's the important thing.

Like, if when a moment gets tough, if we can, like, manipulate it enough to have our perspective be, have hope and possibility in it. Yeah. Because a lot of times it can go the other way. You know, you easily could have got on that other ship where it's like, this is, I'm not going to be. And you're barking orders. You're being like this and this. And now it's a nightmare.

Yeah. What do I have control of? That's what I kept trying to remind myself of this situation that was happening. of like, I don't control the flights. Yeah, there's the photo. That's hilarious. All those guys are so happy. They're stoked.

They're like, this guy will be here for one day. So I had put it in the back of my mind that all of those, a lot of those guys are friends. So more of like the people I didn't know is like, everybody's going to discount me. Everybody's going to say that I'm not going to make it that far because look at all of this. I mean, even though I was doing a decent job of control. controlling my emotions, it's still like an emotional roller coaster, you know? And getting to that race, it was like, this is a perfect example of how this weekend is going to go because if I can go through this experience with a smile and see it as every obstacle is just an opportunity to

try something new and experience this adventure in a different way that is not the way I envisioned it. It's not the way everybody else envisioned it, but who's to say this is a worse way to experience it? Yeah, that's the trap I've gotten in a lot. It's getting a little better, but that's the trap sometimes. It's like, this isn't how it's supposed to be. And you can almost feel your body get like tight over it. That feeling just sucks, man. Yeah.

Well, after a while, you just get tired of you like, this has to be a better way. And there is. You know, that's a crazy thing. There is a better way. but I think it takes practice and noticing when you get to those moments and then being able to start to you know kind of slowly adjust

again I'm not preaching this just kind of the like yeah you just can't hold on so tight you know because you get exhausted you hold on anything so tight you get exhausted yeah you know what is happening to your body during a race right so like are there parts

where you're like are your muscles just like vibrating like do your feet get swollen does your, like, what kind of happens as you go through? Because four days of racing is, that's a lot of racing. Like, that's the most racing. Like, that's kind of the most racing. It is the most racing.

So, thinking about it, I kind of think about it, I'm not a big car guy, but like, if you take a minivan across the country, you're going to go at a different pace than if you take like a Corvette. And if you're taking a Corvette, you're going to have to let that engine cool down because you're revving it so hot. And so I'm taking the minivan across the country in these races. And what I mean by that is I'm, it's like a 50-50 jog walk. Like I'm walking a lot of this race because I'm trying to play the long game of how can I slowly deteriorate my body over a long period of time. instead of coming out hot and having that engine burn super quick. Right, because you just have to finish the miles within the hour.

Yeah. Okay, got it. So you could do it as fast as you want. You could do 58-minute loops and just essentially walk as much as you possibly can. And there are times where I'll do that. But the body, it's not so much of like muscles will cramp or it's more of like fatigue. And, you know, the feet start to hurt and they start to swell. I mean, I've still got blisters all over my feet from the race because of just the constant friction.

So it's not like a muscle soreness. It's more of like a body fatigue and everything's wearing down. And the thing about this race is it was on an old military base. So 65% of the course was this concrete. And so your bones were just like, oh, sore and achy. and really feeling it. A lot of people had hit problems. And man, I saw a KT tape,

which is like this tape that's supposed to help keep things in place. One dude had it all the way up his neck and down his back. Down the second, I'm like, brother, maybe it's down to call it. He's getting airlifted out of his chair. Like they brought in a helicopter just to lift him up. Oh, that's crazy. Dude, I would have that stuff.

You would just see my eyes, dude. my whole body would be that tape, dude. I would have my whole body taped. It'd be a mummy out there. I would be just a hopeful mummy. That's the only thing I would be. So it's not like your muscles start palipatating? Or do they like, it's not like that?

No. Because do you get scared of your heartbeat or something? Like, is there any, like, things that start to happen that you get scared of that your body, like, can my body? Like, my actual body? I haven't so far reached that point. And I think it's really important for me, the runner, to know that limit because I never want to put that responsibility on somebody else. Oh, so then your wife's responsible, your friend,

like suddenly they have to make a decision because you went too far. Yes, like my responsibility is to know my limit. And sometimes that might be, at least in the past when I was just starting out with this, I thought my limit was one thing. And then I'd wake up the next day. and I'd be like, man, I'm really disappointed that I thought that was my limit. And so it's a trial and error of trying to figure out what that limit is. But it's not, I would never want to put that responsibility on my wife to keep encouraging me to go out.

And then I end up in the hospital. Right. So I haven't found that limit. I don't know what it is, but I have a hope and a faith that like I'll know that when it comes up. A great example is Harvey Lewis. He's another runner. He's another runner 50 years old. He's a legend in the sport.

He's a guy I highly respect. I love this man. He's set the world record in this format. And one of the things that he said after the race, because he bowed out at around 40 or 50 loops. And he had just got done running the Badwater 135, which is another extreme race. But he said that the only thing that

was, would keep him in the race was his ego. And I thought that was of this race, of this race. He, when he tapped out, his body was just banged up from a race he did two weeks before. And he had made the statement that the only thing that was keeping, would have kept him in the race, would have been his ego. Oh, that's a fascinating. And to hear someone like that, who I look up to, who's a legend, who can make that decision. And he's vegan. He's doing it all on vegetables. He's doing it on vegetables and co-beats. Coca-Cola baby. Dude, I eat a bunch of mushrooms. I can't even make...

Dude, I can't even make it out of my cousin's basement, dude. He's got a... So, after he bowed out, he gave me a bunch of his juice. And I was like, man, maybe this is what's key for. He's got carrot juice and beet juice.

I was like, this sounds good. But just watching him make that decision gave me confidence of, like, I don't need my ego to keep me in a race. Got it. So even if the greats are making a decision like that and their thought process can kind of,

like, have a scale that understands that, then as a runner who really cares about this, hopefully I'll have the same scale, you're saying? Yeah, and exactly. And I think to further that is like, why am I out here? Am I here to win the race?

Because if I'm here to win the race, then it's worth dying to win this race. But if I'm not here to win the race, if being here is something deeper and more meaningful, then the outcome of this race doesn't determine my experience here. In fact, I respect Harvey Lewis so much more because he made that decision,

because he didn't put something external or materialistic above what's truly important to him. And I respect him even more for that. Yeah, like I think a lot of like in my own life, I've had things where it's like, and I'm not trying to sound like a downer. Sometimes I talk about stuff, and I think it seems like such a downer.

Like my life's- I'm not getting that impression You're not? No. Okay. I just try to share about like things that I think about or feel. And sometimes those things are like, you know,

you're navigating kind of the other side of like pretending everything's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like sometimes it's like I thought, yeah, just that the success like that will be enough, you know, that and with that is the focus or like you do start to lose track of the relationship that you're having with the experience, you know. But I haven't done a bad job of that, but I have thought that at times. It's like, well, if I can just prove, it's like proving myself, here's what it is.

It's like proving myself, but to who? Like, who was I proved? Like, because I don't always know if it was to me. Yeah. Sometimes I don't know who it was to. Yeah. But it was just like, and sometimes it could just be this societal arrow that you get put on as a child and shot through towards this.

prove yourself. Yeah. You know. But that's something that I reflect on sometimes. And then I think even just like now, I'm just starting to see a little bit more like, yeah, who do I want to prove things to as my life goes on, you know? Yeah, it's just an interesting conversation. And some of it is just like, yeah, what are these conversations we have with ourselves?

Because they're the most important conversation, you know? And so often I don't really have them or I don't even, I have. I have them, but I don't even notice what they are, too, at times. You know, you have a beautiful way of creating imagery that I so much appreciate the arrow analogy. I think oftentimes we think that, so like that you've been shot out into the trajectory. It's like, I wasn't even the one pulling the string. Yeah. And we forget that when we take control of the bow, that's not the only arrow we have in the bag.

We get to pull out another one and let go of that identity or that journey or that path. That's we didn't even, someone else created that path for us. You know? And so it's like, I've tried and dude, I'm not perfect at this. I fail at this. And I have, the thing I'm appreciative is I have people that help ground me in this of like, the success is great. But ultimately, like, there's only one audience that matters and that's God.

And we aren't going to live up to that perfect standard. But we can do our best, but know that like, no matter how much success I have in running, it's not going to make me more valuable as a person. No matter how much I try and do good, I'm not going to be perfect and there's no way. And the thing is, we don't have to be. We're not called to be perfect. We're called to recognize our own imperfection and strive to be a little bit better. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just it's about this, yeah, what is this relationship that I have with myself? And also, I have a relationship with the higher power, I think, helps you start to have a relationship with yourself.

I think, anyway, I'm just kind of navigating some of that space, you know, trying to navigate it at a deeper level, you know. There was a loop out there. You've been kind of criticized online. I don't know if it's criticized, but you've been, let's say, and that's not fair to say, oh, that's fair. Maybe it is. You've been documented online as having it's criticized online. sort of this wild loop, I think it was Loop 87, where it was down to you and L.O. Yes. Another competitor, and he's German.

Yes, he is. And you guys were the last two left in this race. And there's a part where it's like the camera that they have to show this. It kind of makes you wonder if it's even real or if like Israel set this up. You don't know exactly

what's going on. But there's this infrared camera of you two guys on a trail. I want to show it right here. It's short. That's the only thing we can tell you right now. Stay very still and very static. And there they go.

It's one of you guys stopping when the other one stops. The lady goes, oh no. And the way she said it, the way it connected everybody's mind, it's the same way when you're watching one of those animal planet videos. And the cheetah comes in and gets the other animal. the animal that can't get out of the river. And it's like, she's, oh, no, she said it just like that. So I think that that kind of got cycled into people's, like, energy with it.

But some people would say it looks like you could be stalking or like you're kind of like monitoring your prey or you're like panamiming, right? And the, yeah, what was going on there? Like, what's going on out on the course? And what do, and what psychology are people using out on the course out there if there's any when it comes down to just a couple competitors. Yeah, I think in the backyard, it is not simply a physical adventure or competition. It's physical, it's mental, it's emotional, it's spiritual.

And the people that do the best in this sport are able to handle all four of those things. And when it gets down to, you know, all throughout the day, everybody is playing a mind game, whether they know it or not. They're trying to look stronger than they are. You know, they're coming out and they're doing faster loops when maybe, you know, it's just a way to posture how strong they're doing. Hide in limps.

Hide in limps. Secretly vaping. Funny enough, I did a race in June and a guy was vaping. I was like, brother, how are you doing this? He's like, I'll tell you how I'm doing this. Dude, on cherry lime ice, dude. That's how I'm doing it. And we'd like to sponsor that guy.

Yeah, see, a thick mod too. It was like not like a jewel or something. It was like puffing clouds. Oh, like one of those like the front of a train, like one of those big dogs? Jeepers. It was crazy. That dude's pushing coal through his lungs, bro. Oh, like, I don't want to mess with that guy.

That's this guy. That's one of this West Virginia backyard runners, bro. Hey, look at that dude or woman. So, loop 87. It was an opportunity to be competitive in a way that the sport has always had, but maybe hasn't been televised in that way before. And I think the thing I go back to is like, you know, you don't tell Dennis Rodman how to play basketball. Yeah. You prepare to play Dennis Rodman.

And I, from all of the sports that I've ever played, I've always been a guy who likes to use my energy as a. a way to celebrate the activity that I'm doing and use competitive advantages here and there to gain an advantage. And that's really all it was. It was, you know, I saw him sprint out of the gate, sort of trying to show me how strong he was. And I said, I'm right here with you. And were you guys talking? Does he speak English? He speaks a little bit of English. Okay. But there was obviously, even if there's not verbal communication, there's like communication of ambiance or peacocking in a way. There's like that kind of energy, right?

Yeah, there was, I mean, he was, I spoke no words to him out there on that loop. In fact, I think him and I had one conversation all day, and that was when there were four or five people left. And I was like, hey, this is awesome that we're still here. We just made it three days of running. But out on that loop, yeah, there were no words exchanged from me on my end. he did sort of say like, what the, what the heck are you doing? And his, I think, way of trying to show his strength was speeding up. Like, he's a really fast runner. And I think he tried to break me off in that moment. And that was his form of communication to me that, okay, if we're playing

this game, you're going to have to keep up with me. And I played that game back with him. And so your energy was just what? Like, I'm right here still? I'm right here. I can run fast loops too. Dude, it reminds me like, I'm friends with this UFC fighter, Dustin Porier.

He's, and one thing that I always didn't, like, one thing I like that he does is when he's, even if he's over on his side during the, like,

on the breaks in between the rounds, even if he rest with his hands on his knees, he always is looking over at his opponent. And I think about that every time, like, I'm in the gym,

whatever I'm doing, like if I start to break down, like rest a little bit, like just to pick my own stature back up. Sure. Just to remind myself, just a physical reminder of like, I'm going to keep going, right? He always does that. Yeah, I think that seems normal to me that people do that kind of stuff, you know? I mean, have you seen it a lot out there with other racers? Like when you guys get down to just two guys?

Yeah, there's all, like Harvey and I, we've raced against each other three times now this year. And I was at a race here in Franklin at the end of, of June called the Mid-State Mile. It's a one-mile loop every 20 minutes until one person's left. Wait, let me say it again, it's a one-mile loop every 20 minutes. Every 20 minutes until one person's left? Yeah, so it's still that format, but like not four miles every hour, one mile every 20 minutes. But you must get a ton of entrance in that. Into that one? Well, the kicker with this one is it's in Franklin, and there's 340 feet of elevation per loop. So you're climbing this massive hill, and then you're descending down, and

then you're climbing another massive hill and you're descending down. So it's super challenging. And that's the one where I saw the dude puffing clouds. That's what was blowing my mind because it wasn't like a flat course where it's a friendly jog. It was like, you're huffing and puffing up this hill. I'm like, how are you doing this? Dude, it's just somebody from Goodlet'sville, dude. That's all it is, bro.

It's chill. But Harvey would do things where he would sprint out. Okay. He would sprint out of the gate. And that was his way of saying, I could be here all day. Got it. You know, and so there's all this little stuff that's going on. Crews are trying to gather information from people, you know, all this little stuff.

Every movement and posture that you have out there is you knowingly or unknowingly sending a signal to yourself and to other people how you're doing. Well, that's the world too. And especially if you are, like, I'll notice if I do fasting, dude, on the third day, dude, I can tell you. you if you're going to have grandchildren or not, right? You just know what's going. Like every little thing means something. Like, communication is so much easier because it's, it doesn't feel sedated by kind of food and stuff like that.

Does it feel like a level like that when you get to like, when you're running at, like, after you've been running for so long, does everything feel like very acute and real or does it feel just bizarre? Exactly how you feel on day three is how it feels on day. three and four for me out on the course. I don't understand the last two loops of the course and after the race, the communication that I was having with my team. And then, you know, I was talking to everybody about my race afterwards and gave this

speech. None of that was me. I have no idea where it came from. I say it was the Holy Spirit because I could not think straight out there. but this was, there was this general piece that I had not experienced really in any place in my life and all I could, it wasn't like I was thinking,

I was just experiencing and living in that moment without any expectation or pressure or desire to leave that spot. I just wanted to be right there. It was like I could feel the experience and feel the importance of it, but also step outside. I've heard, comedians talk about this.

Maybe you've experienced this. I'm sure you have, but like where you're on stage and you're almost seeing yourself have the experience and you're, it's not affecting you from like a negative. Like it's not getting into your subconscious. Like you're just,

you're experiencing it and you're aware of the experience and how beautiful it is. But you're still in it. And you're still way in it. Yeah. And it's like, oh, like. That's pretty cool. It's awesome.

That's a twofer. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Is pornography causing a problem in your life? Do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and having trouble stopping? Is porn affecting your relationship or dating life? Well, you're certainly not alone. Watching pornography has become so commonplace today, and oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of loneliness

boredom, anxiety, and depression. Shame and stigma prevent men from talking about these issues and getting help for them. I want to introduce you to my friend Steve. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery, a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity. Steve is a long-term sexual recovery member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering men to do the same. Steve is an amazing person and he is a close friend of mine. I mean that.

Valor Recovery helps men to develop the tools necessary to have a healthier sex life. Their coaches are in long-term recovery and will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide to transcend these problematic behaviors. To learn more about valor recovery, please visit them at www.vallor recovery. or email them at admin at valer recovery coaching.com. Thank you. We hear a lot about hallucinations while running, actually. Have you experienced some of that? I have, yes. You have? Yeah. Anything good? I saw teddy bears hanging from a tree one time. I saw some Native Americans. I saw saw there's a race where there was a road loop and there was an entire middle school of kids sitting cross-legged, cheering me on, putting their hand out for a high five. No way.

It was wild. There was a, are you a Harry Potter guy? Enough. So you know those big spiders? Yes. There was one race where it was through a tunnel of trees and all of the trees started. to turn into these massive spiders. It was nuts.

God. It was, you know, yeah, that exactly. Oh, yeah, that's the snoop dogs right there. And then... Dude, that's that Tim Burton. That's beautiful. Wow. But then there was like,

out in Germany, it wasn't like a physical depiction of anything like that. It just felt like I had been, which is weird to say, because I was on that course for day, on end, but it like felt like I had been on that course before. Like this nostalgia feeling was not like something in passing. It was like this constant state of nostalgia of like, I've been here before.

I've seen this course before. And I couldn't explain it. Dude, I think everybody else could explain that you just run around it 300 times. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think it's understandable. But yeah, I mean, that's, yeah. Can you bring up different hallucinative experiences that happened when people was jogging? Of the strange and intriguing world of running hallucinations.

I just want to get a few of these out. Emily Foy, Ultra Trail Dumont Blanc. It says, I was filling in my water bottle from a sheep's trough, red flag. I think that costs the hallucinations. I mean, that's a good call, dude. First of all, if I'm drinking water with sheep, I'm already not doing good. I was filling up my water bottle from a sheep's trough on the mountain at mile 70. I recalled when I saw tiny severed heads at the bottom.

I looked around at my fellow runners expecting a similar reaction and panic, but they were all utterly calm, filling bottles and chatting. Oh, that would have pissed me off the most. I'm staring at baby heads And a trough And you're over there Just giggling Yeah just talking about

How the Vikings are doing Get out of town Try as I might I couldn't make the heads Turn into stones Which my rational mind knew they must be I couldn't stomach drinking

Turned around Apologized to a golden retriever A.k.a. A pile of dried grass And I tripped over And continued up the mountain It was broad daylight That's that free shit

I'm trying to get on This is another one Jen Scotney North Traverse race. I was 120 miles into 190 mile race and hadn't slept. Going into the second night, I started hallucinating really badly when it got dark.

My head torch was bouncing light onto the limestone walls where cats and human faces were appearing. The night was so clear, the stars were twinkling all around, but I was hallucinating that they were around my shoulders on my own at 2 a.m., everyone else tucked up in bed,

and here I was, and the Yorkshire Dales shouting at the stars to get back into the sky. Like, that's mad. Let me see one more here. This is John Hunt. I was going into the second night, so it was pretty wasted by then. And I was on a country road, and this is in Thames. I was on a country road with trees either side.

I was about 150 miles in, and remember thinking the trees looked really strange with weird bits, hanging down. So I stopped and had a closer look. To my amazement, it looked like someone else had strung up thousands of rotisserie chickens, as far as the eye could see. I was so confused by it that I took a closer look and went to grab one. Alas, it was just a leaf.

Huh. Dude, one time I was with my ex-girlfriend and we went bike riding. This was in Germany. And dude, we went in this park and some dude, he was like a, I guess like a wiener guy or whatever. He was standing in the park

and like he had no clothes on, right? And he was like this tall white guy. He was like, and he was like kind of spinning his wiener at a. dude. And dude, this is the worst part. Her freaking bike broke down right there. And I'm like, ugh. And I thought she was kind of doing it on purpose just to like be around this guy, like, not around this guy's wiener, but like to see it more or whatever. And then the bike was like really broke, dude. And I'm like trying to like, so then we had like walk this bike, but the back tire

wouldn't move. So we had to like drag walk this bike past some dude like like legitimately spinning his wiener, like at a decent gate. Like creating vortex around that. thing. Like I would say this, a butterfly couldn't land on it, right? A hummingbird couldn't even land on it, probably. So... That's some... But anyway, I don't know why I told you that.

So that's why I don't run. But anyway, I just wanted to kind of get that out there. Are there people that... Who does this sport, Mark? Like, is it business guys that just are looking or become like, end up making a ton of money

and they're looking for something new to do, right? Is it a certain body type? Like, who are there like stereotypes? You know, and not to say there's anything wrong with that or all somewhat of a stereotype. Are there stereotypes that are out there kind of, do you see? Yes and no. There's a few different stereotypes.

I guess like the business person who's that go-getter, that they have to do everything a million miles an hour, that's also, that's a person that's out there is like, I'm an achiever, I'm going to go achieve this other thing in this world called running and ultra running. There's also people that, you know, they struggled, it's a big place of recovery. People that have struggled with addiction, alcohol,

and they have that addictive personality, and running has been the, cure for them to not have that outlet. Running does a great job of spiritually lifting you from maybe the burdens of everyday life. And so I think a lot of people find refuge in that. And, you know, and there's people, people like me who really have this desire to see what they're capable of. And I think, you know, Ryan, the driver, he, he asked a really great question yesterday. And it was on this same line of thinking of, do you think anybody is capable of what you did out there?

I think the short answer is it depends. Because there's a guy, Mike Egan, who is in a wheelchair. He's lost both of his legs because he was in service for the United States. And he did the BPN go one more, which I was doing in April, and he did this last soul race in Germany. And he's in a wheelchair the whole time. He's in a wheelchair the whole time. And if you would have told me before I ever met Mike,

what do I think he's capable of, be based on my own imperfections, I would have said, I don't, how can he go more than a few loops? And then I witnessed him, persevere and overcome every obstacle on that course until Rain totally destroyed it in the one in April. And he was dragging his wheelchair. just the heart of a lion

and he comes out in this race he sets a PR I think he went 31 or 32 hours at this course No way And let's go Mike And so I see a man Who does not allow

His circumstance Or the things that have happened to him Limit his belief about who he can become Amen And so I think anybody who has that belief about who they are Like I look up to Mike so much Because he has shown me

what is possible when you face extreme obstacle. And so I think anybody who has that belief about themselves, then they can, as Mike said, find peace in the storm because they're willing to put themselves out there no matter what. And so I think anybody who has that ability to look at life as this is not happening to me, this is happening for me, I'm going to figure it out. And Mike always says, forward, onward, onward we go through the obstacle. and that's who I think is like,

that's who it attracts at the end of the days, people who want to find out who they are. Amen, dude. Wow, that's fascinating. And so even like if the course is uneven and stuff, he still manages it. Yeah, he finds a way. God.

And what's funny about this, too, is Harvey. Gosh, Harvey's a great guy. I could talk about him all day, but in the midst of what happened, the trail, so 40% of it was trail, and there were rocks all over it. And Mike was having a hard, time going from the concrete to the rocky trail.

So over the course of, you know, 40 hours, Harvey got a group of us together and would take one rock off the course every loop. So Harvey picked up like 250 rocks over the course of his... Just trying to make it more fair? Just to make it easier for Mike. Right. We want to make it more fair, really? Yeah.

Yeah. Because it's kind of like, dude, yeah, have them, like, get him, at least every now and I didn't give him a little... side alley. You know what I'm saying? The guy's earned it. Give my HOV line. Gosh, I can't imagine how difficult that is.

Wow, that's fascinating, man. But like that guy is the man. Right. Thank you for sharing about him. Yeah, can you pull that article up again, Trevin, please? A Texas-based veteran now holds the Guinness World Record for most miles covered in a wheelchair in 24 hours. On November 10, 2025, Mike Egan, a bilateral amputee and wheelchair user.

and what does bilateral mean? It means, I don't know. I don't know. Both legs? Yeah, so I don't know. But covered 152.3-7 miles over 21 hours. Wow. Completing 720 rotations around the course

at Morgan's Wonderland Sports Complex in San Antonio with his family there to support. Let's go. I mean, he has two children, too. That's awesome. He's a former Marine, man. Thank you for your service, dude. Wow.

Mike Egan. Oh, look at him there with that stash rocking, bro. Mikey got that word curtain on him. Let's do it, dude. Bro, thank you, bro. Thanks for sharing about him. Yeah. I want to get into, like, what are some of the different types of courses that they have in backyard running?

Like, what are some of the tougher ones or more unique ones, just so that listeners can understand, like, what backyard ultras are like? Yeah. Yeah, the backyard ultras space is still growing. one of the more tougher courses is the original one that happens in bellbuckle, right? It's bell buckle. Bell buckle here in Tennessee? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's called Biggs Backyard. The originator Lazz put it on, I think, in his backyard. And it takes place every year. It's, I think, 400 feet of elevation per loop. And so there's courses that, you know, I know of one that I do in Wausau, Wisconsin, that's 500 or 610 feet of elevation per loop.

So elevation adds a ton of... Oh, it makes it so much more challenging. So much more challenging. So you could have like a flat course like BPN or this course in Germany where it's going to be demanding for different things. Like a flat course, you're not changing your running motion very much. So it's just staying in one place for a long period of time. that causes friction there.

But then there's higher elevation courses where the race might not go as long, but you're climbing, you know, essentially Mount Everest in 24 hours and your quads are banged up, your hamstrings are banged up, your muscles are a lot more banged up. And the more this sport grows,

the more we're going to see challenges like, hey, man, come to Minnesota in January. Let's see what a course looks like going across a frozen lake, you know, or go to Arizona in, you know, June or July, which might be a little bit dangerous. But I think what we'll start to see more of is, like, what you see in motocross or some of these other sports where the temperature and environment you're in will dictate the course environment, which will determine what strengths and weaknesses an athlete truly has. Wow. So it's going to start to see more strengths and weaknesses

a disparity of strengths and weaknesses because more variables will be introduced. Ooh, that's going to be interesting. So we're still on the cusp of what that could be, but a lot of the courses generally are probably within 100 to 300 feet of elevation per loop. Got it. And what are some of the severe temperatures

that you've already been in? Have you been in any snow winds or whatever? Not in the backyard. I did a race in January called the Arrowhead 135, and that's a historic Minnesota race takes place in International Falls, Minnesota, which is right on the border of Canada. Is that by Lake I Task at all?

It's near there, near there. Because the Mississippi River starts right up there. You can jump right across it. Yeah, you could. Dude, some lady took me there one time. She was awesome. I don't know if she listened sometimes. And I won't say her name,

but she took me there one time and let me jump over the river. Oh, really? Which was pretty cool, yeah, because I've eaten things out of that river. Out of the Mississippi River? Yeah. Hopefully more upstream. Yeah, I mean, I've had some...

Downstream, it gets a little bit. I mean, look, I put my tongue downstream a few times, brother. It doesn't end well, you know? So, one day at a time. Oh, that's you right there. Yeah. Doing ice bearding. So it's a race.

You run 135 miles. You got to carry a bunch of supplies on you. Okay. On a sled. And the temperature this year was minus 30 degrees at the start line, Fahrenheit. And how many miles is that? That's 135. So that took 30.

Oh, so that has a finish line? That has a finish line. So I haven't done any extreme weather in the backyard. Got it. But I have experience doing extreme weather, at least in this capacity. So wait, that was negative 30 degrees? That, what you just saw was from last year's race, which was 15 to 20 degrees. This year's race was minus 30 degrees, so I've done it twice.

And how much does that affect things, that weather difference? Do you even notice it after the beginning or what is that like? Um, or is it more of just a visual effect? Well, the warmer race I think is more difficult because the snow becomes like sand, so it's hard to, your feet kind of move around. And it's nice because you're not as concerned about frostbite, but when it's super cold, it's like concrete running on, like a softer concrete, but it feels much better to run on. but man, my hands were getting cold.

I was shoving him in my pants all race long, just trying to keep them warm. And it really becomes a, how can I moderate the temperature of my body so that I'm not dying out here type of thing. And does it ever get, you ever run so much, it just feels like homoerotic or anything out there?

Like, does things start to happen where you're like, I just ran like out of my own sexuality or something? Like, you know what I'm saying? How weird does things get like that, like mentally? Yeah, it never turns sexual in my mind. but that's something I can think about on my next one and get back to you on it.

If you're really interested about that. Don't get back to me. I'm just wondering like if you're out there. I don't see guys shaking their wiener like you do when you run, dude. Bro, it was one guy. And I think my girlfriend even set it up or whatever. Anyway, I don't even know what we're talking about. Yeah, I just didn't know because sometimes at certain altitude

to something people are more likely to be gay, different things can happen. I didn't know if people can run so much that you could, liked more for whatever. Oh, I want to get a little bit of your backstory. So you were an all-state high school athlete, and you played college football. Yep. When did running start for you? Yeah.

Yeah, so I played collegiate football and lacrosse. And running started for me the spring of my senior year when it was club lacrosse. We actually played in Nashville. We played three games. Let's go. And we lost two out of the three games. One of them was to good old Kennesaw State. N'uh.

Yeah. From Georgia? Yeah. If that's where Kennesaw State's from. I don't know where it's from. But hey, we'll go with it. Kennesaw State, Georgia. And we never lost a Kennesaw State in our program's history.

So it was a tough one. And it was the first game of the weekend. But we're busing back. It's a 24-hour bus ride back. And I'm sitting in the back of the bus like, we suck, I suck, we're not going anywhere, throwing a pity party. And my brother sent me the Joe Rogan, David Gaghan's podcast. And I'm just listening to this man, defecate down the back of his leg, pissing blood.

And he's getting up and he's running another 30 miles to complete a hundred mile run around a track. And it was the first time it had planted a seed of my mind about some person who was not allowing their, situation to have them throw a pity party. Like, we lost the first two games of the year. We still had a whole season ahead of us. And I'm listening to this man, break himself and not make an excuse about it. So the first thing I did when we got back at three in the morning was I went out for a run. And that sort of just continued over the spring.

And when I was no longer an athlete when I graduated school, you know, truthfully, playing football on the cross was great escape for me to take out the anger that I had. You know, I struggle a little bit with alcohol in college of just using it as a coping mechanism for not being able to sift through my emotional state. Yeah. And it would be this, the cycle that I was living in was, was get drunk on a Saturday night, wake up with regret and shame, walk around with that regret and shame, not want to deal with that, bottle it up, come to Saturday game day, and flick that pain on somebody else so that I didn't have to feel it anymore, and then celebrate that by more drinking. And that was just the loop that I was living in. Eventually, alcohol and the

decisions I was making came to a point I was like, I either need to make a change or I need to, like, it was just a point where I was like, dude, I need to figure out my life. And then after school and I had no other thing to keep me occupied outside of work and life, running was a thing that was there for me. And I just noticed early on that the more I would run, the more I would come back from a run, and I would feel that heaviness in my chest feel almost like gone. Like the weight was off my shoulders. I wasn't carrying around that anger. And so early on for me, running was this tool for me to kind of worked through a lot of the emotional stuff that I was going through because it was, there was this,

this practical imagery that was going on is like the more I ran and the more I moved forward while I was thinking about the issues and the problems in my life, it was like I was moving forward mentally through them and also physically through them because I was thinking about them as I was moving on my run. And so it allowed me to kind of work through things and leave behind stuff that I wasn't as proud of and move forward through things that I wanted to become ideas and conversations and just a life I wanted to live coming out of college. Yeah, when you get to the end of a run, the thoughts and feelings that you have are good. So it's almost like you like have you've just sifted through and you're holding things that are good. Like, you're excited.

You call somebody, like, I'll whistle at somebody's cat or whatever. Like, you'll do all kinds of shit after a run. You're fucking rocking. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. You're left with, you've kind of run into the best parts of you. Yeah. Okay.

Sorry, go on. No, that's a... So that was it. That's it. That was the start of it. It was just like... So that's how it started. Yeah.

And then, you know, I signed up for a marathon. And I think the competitor in me was like, all right, I did a marathon. Can I do 30 months? Can I do 50 miles and started doing some charity runs to raise money and awareness for a nonprofit for love like Lori Legacy? Yeah, I saw it. It was one of your friends' mothers that passed away? Yeah, she passed away from pancreatic cancer in 2020. What's her?

Lori? Lori Weber. Yeah. What was the guy's name? Blake. Blake Weber. Yeah. And that, man, that I think that was a real turning point for me and how I related to running

and how I could basically have a relationship with this sport that was outside of outcomes and rewards, because that's all I focused on in college. Like, if we, the goal is to win a national championship. If we didn't win a national championship, I was not worthy. We never won a national championship. So does that mean, like, I'm going the rest of my life thinking that I'm not worthy of anything because I didn't get an outcome? and through these love like Lori runs,

it was beautiful to be able to, I don't know what it's like to lose my mom. I'll never know what that feels like, at least up until now, right? And at least not in the way that Blake lost his mom. And there's a lot of pain and a lot of hurt and a lot of working through emotional stuff where through these runs,

we would get to walk and run side by side and I would experience this physical pain that would force me to go internal and kind of deal with it that way and at the same time walk-aligned side a brother who was also going through a different type of pain and it was almost a point where we can now connect on how to talk and move through this pain together

even though they're different things because pain is pain right If you're hurt, that's all you're experiencing. That's all, like, but we are connected by pain in a way where we can start to, like, if I'm hurting, I'm better able to understand if you're hurting. If I've never experienced pain or hurt, I don't know how to relate to you. But when we can experience it together and be open and vulnerable about what we're going through and what we're struggling with, it was a phenomenal opportunity to see pain as not something to avoid. But to really like, all right, let's pull up our sleeves and like, let's get into this. Yeah, let's figure out what this means.

Hey, man, dude. Yeah, man, going on, like, I'll go on a walk with a friend or something like that. And it's like, that's when we get the most, like, you know, it's like when you're just something in action. And they say our body, like, holds so much of our pain. So, of course, if you're taking some action that is starting to call it, that will, like, in turn, like, make your body have to process some pain, then it makes sense that it could also process some of the pain that's actual emotional pain that's being held in. Yeah.

You know? I don't know if there's science behind that, but I'm sure that there is. But anyway, also, I don't know exactly what I'm talking about, but I never have either. I've heard you talk about using journaling as like a, I don't want to say modality. I don't know what that word means, but I think I do. but as like a, I guess it almost is like a written, like a confidant on your journey. Like I've just heard you talk a lot about journaling and how you use it and how you've used it on your journey of like kind of self-discovery.

Sure. Can you kind of take me through some of that, like what that experience has been like? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so when I was going through, I talked about that moment in college where I had to reevaluate and actually take a look at maybe it's not everyone else. maybe it's not every situation. It's me and my actions.

I was nudged by our athletic trainer to go see a sports psychiatrist that would come to campus on Thursdays. And her practice for me was to get a journal and start writing in it. And what I noticed that I've been able to go back and read and see the process of my thoughts over a period of time is how hard I was on myself, how the voice for me back in the day was like, you idiot, you effing failure.

You said you weren't going to do this thing and you did it again. And like I was so adamant about like, okay, I'm not going to, you know, college kid, the biggest sacrifice I made in college was my junior year for New Year's Eve. I said I wasn't going to drink hard alcohol, but I was going to drink beer, man.

Because, yeah, like, I'll make a lot. a sacrifice, but not one that's enough where it's truly a sacrifice. Got it. And, you know, maybe three months of like doing a good job on that, I'd have some hard alcohol and I would just beat myself up over it. Like, I can't believe you did this again, blah, blah, blah. And I guess the more I wrote, the more I was able to understand what voice was playing in my head and recognize that, dude, maybe this isn't even my, like, why would you? I talk to myself this way. I wouldn't talk to you this way.

I wouldn't talk to a friend this way. And so to see it all laid out and then to understand, one, I'm not going to be perfect. Perfection is not something I can achieve. So I have to stop trying to chase that. It's not possible. And if I'm ever going to grow as a person, I have to release myself of this pressure of the need to be perfect or even the thought that I can be. Wow.

Not possible. Yeah, dude. And when I hold myself to that, I'm holding other people to that. Yeah. And it keeps me away from people. It keeps me away from, like, it keeps away from so many things, you know? Because you're always in this place of like there's something of like, this isn't enough or something could be neat. Something, I know something needs to be different.

Yeah. Well, and I think about the relationship with my life, the more, the times we've grown the most is when we've worked through conflict. the imperfections. And it's like the imperfections are beautiful. They allow us to see ourselves in a new way. And when we can allow somebody into that experience, we can help each other find the best parts of who we are through our imperfections.

And so journaling has been a really phenomenal practice for me to, one, allow the thoughts, whether they're positive or negative, to get down on something. So they're not stuck in my head, rattling around controlling, like I want to be present as much as I possibly can.

Yeah. And if I got all these thoughts in my head, even if they're like really cool ideas, they're stuck in there. And I want to get them out so I can just leave them there and I can come back to them at a later time. So journaling has just helped me navigate

a lot of the emotional stuff that's going on and also put together plans of who I want to become. Like, okay, if I know this isn't the voice I want, what type of voice do I want to have internally? Who do I want to let into my life that is going to hold me accountable, but also help encourage me and build me up? And how can I be that way for other people? Like, who have I been neglecting?

All these, like, just life stuff. There's, you know, just... There's a good questions, man. Yeah, dude. I was like, I'm working with my sponsor right now and I have to write like a fears list, like things that I'm afraid of, dude. And it's crazy, dude. like the things that I'm really afraid of, you know?

You don't have to talk about them specifically, but I would never ask you to do that. But do you, are you, is there a fear that you have of actually pointing to the deep fears that you have? Like I say they're, like, I can get that way myself. That's why I ask is like, almost afraid to know the thing you're most afraid of because then it's there.

Oh, wow. Does that make sense? Like, would I even be brave enough to write that thing I'm most afraid of? Even if it's just for you. Right. Because then it's still... Yeah. Right.

Then you can't avoid it anymore. That's where I get to. Dang. What are your thoughts on that? That's freaking wild. Like, if there's a tiger behind these, like, dangerous kittens I've ridden down, dude, like, if there's a mama cat in the bag, bro? Bro, if there is, I'm not going to make it, bro.

I wrote down like a lot of mine are like I'm trying to think Some of them are like kind of topical type things Like I'm afraid I'm ugly I'm afraid I don't like like I'll never Have like the physique that I want Or I'm afraid You know

I'm afraid I'm not gonna be able to like Figure out my own stuff To be able to be like successful in a marriage You know and some of them aren't as strong as they used to be but some of like I mean I probably have like 20 more I think I wrote down like maybe 25 things that I'm really afraid of let me think of what's a real real one

you know what I've always been afraid of man I'm always been afraid of that I'm wasting everybody's time and I don't even know where that comes from but it makes everything else tough because it makes everything else feel like it has to happen fast I've always been afraid of that And I don't even know if it's a, I write it as a fear. And maybe it shouldn't have been written down as a fear,

but it was just like a thing. But it's like something that like, yeah, when I put it together, I'm always afraid that I've been wasting somebody's time. My whole life I felt like there's this to do. Like I got given a to do list at like six days old. And there's like 200 million things on it. And I'm, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Like it's an invisible like, like, oh, you're late. Like my whole life that's been like. Yeah. somebody like this in the distance. And it's like, what? But, you know, I don't know. So that's probably a bit like, yeah. Or maybe I'm afraid I'm wasting their attention.

Maybe that's part of it too. Yeah, like if you're going to give me your attention, I don't want to waste it. So that puts like a lot of like, I think probably especially with dating when I was, when I was like, when I was in high school college, It's like that put a ton of like in my 20s. It put a ton of energy on that because it was like, I don't want to wait, you know.

So then you've got to figure everything out pretty quick and that doesn't allow for like anything to really, you know, kind of grow. It makes things hectic. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah. One thing that I've noticed through this conversation that I really appreciate about you is you're unafraid, whether you're doing it on purpose or not of like speaking out loud and working through these thoughts in real time. I, there's no expectation that you need to have the perfect dancer or like, man, you're working through this thought. And I've noticed a few times you said, like, I don't know anything.

You know a lot. And the way that you think through life, that in and of itself is extremely valuable. So I just want to encourage you in that. Thanks. Like that is super, it's helpful for me to recognize that I don't need to have all the answers. Yeah, I think I would get afraid to speak because I didn't know. You know, I think at times. Or you have to put like, I don't know.

Like sometimes, yeah, you feel like you're like, well, thanks for saying that, dude. Yeah. Yeah, I used to, I feel like I feel like I feel like, um, even with podcasting, I think it started to get like, you know, you have a pressure to want to do good or to be at a certain level. And so I think sometimes I got, you know, I don't know, yeah, maybe sometimes at times I was like, oh, well, I need to be able to know more than, you know. What do we know about anything, though? And it's our first time, dude. How often, bro, my friend Megan, she's a therapist up in Portland, and she's always

like, it's our first time. It's like, this is our first time being alive, like, that we know of, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, and we're all under so much expectation. But our society puts it on us. And then we, you know, some of us do, but yeah, it's like. Yeah, I used to do a better... At times, I've done... I feel like I've been a little more patient

with my own thought process. And I used to enjoy that. Yeah. And so, thanks for the reminder to even, like, yeah, it's a good thing. I want to get back to that a little bit more. Like, being like, hey, I'm okay. I'm just figuring this out.

Yeah. You know? That's pretty cool. It is pretty cool. I want to talk to you about quitting. Okay. You had, like, I'm paraphrasing here, but I've told this to, like,

10 people in the past week. I'm like, he says that when he's thinking about quitting, he'll think of himself like two days later or something in like a comfortable space with as much food and as much like love and attend, whatever he needs will all be there. And he asked that person, should I quit?

What do you say? Yeah, I just forecast that comfortable, version myself that's out of the painful experience. And I ask that version of myself, would he be proud of the effort that I put in if I stepped off the course right now? I think more often, at least every time I've asked that question, I can't honestly look at that person and say, you did everything you could out here. And it's my way of removing myself from the pain because the pain and the discomfort is a narrative. It's this like thing that's trying, like we crave comfort. We crave to get out of discomfort. It's hard for us to do that. Yeah.

And even when we're in the midst of it, it's like that's when it's most difficult. So I try and pull myself out of it. So you'll be running and you'll have this, will you actively take a process of thinking? Bro, I will lay down on the course. And I will put my head in my arm and I will visualize myself that, like, whether it's a hotel, whether it's, you know, a friend's house. I will visualize myself. It could be a spa. And it could be a spa. And I'll just, I'll just ask that version.

Like, hey, are we doing everything we can out here? And the answer is, I always know, you have more in you. Like, that version would say, dude, get up and keep moving. That version is also just chilling at the house, dude. I respect that version, and I know what you're saying. But in a physical way, that version is like... But no, I hear what you're saying, though. Like, yeah, with that version...

Like, is that version going to... Just to have a... But the biggest thing is just having that communication. Yeah. Like, there's... In two days, there's another me. Yes. That's in a different space.

and how does he view what's going on here? Because it's like it's a different version, but it's the same version. Yeah. That version still has to live with the decision that this version makes. Yeah. And dude, that's life.

That's life. It's like whenever we're confronted with a difficult decision, if you can pull yourself out, whatever you decide to do, the future you has to deal with those decisions. As long as you can be proud of it, no matter what the outcome is,

you're good. Um, have you developed a real, because I'm sure you probably face a lot of moments that you want to quit. Mm-hmm. Right? Have you developed like a relationship with the part of you that wants to quit? Mm-hmm. Like, you know what I'm saying? Does that voice come along so much?

Because like, say I'll be lifting weights and like, even this morning, I got up real early and I got my stuff done. And I noticed like, okay, there's this early voice in me. I want to quit. Mm-hmm. Stop. And I'm like, sometimes I can just breeze right through that voice. I know that's just bullshit.

That's a hitchhiker. That guy doesn't even, that voice doesn't even have a home. That thing is just some lame-ass quitter voice out here yet with a thumb up, right? That voice isn't shit. That voice just like, it's eating chips, first of all.

So I know, but then I'll start to notice, I'll just start to notice some of the secondary ones. And so I don't, like, but I'm, at least now I can notice, that first one.

Sure. It's just like it's not, it's total like placebo. Yeah. But what are, what are the ones that you, that you notice? Because you've gone to some depths

that are pretty intense to keep going. Yeah. So very similar to you, like that, those first 24 hours, that voice and that person that wants me to quit is like that comfort quit, where it's like,

eh, haven't really invested enough. And, you know, let's just like, let's just step off. But it's easier in a way to get over that because you sort of,

you can call out the yes, you see it. Like, like you said, it's a hitchhiker. It's not, doesn't have a home. The deeper you go in, the more I feel it is a, a direct confrontation with who I am at my core. And so the deeper you go, the more it's hard, it's the, the more difficult I feel like it is to sift through. Am I actually making an excuse in this moment or is this something I seriously need to consider? Because I'm going real deep and dark in this moment. I don't see it necessarily as like a psycho where I'm seeing like two versions of myself in my mind,

but more can I take one step? Like can I just sit in this painful experience and know through experience that there is light on the other side of this darkness? and have faith, have faith that I will get there as long as I continue to move forward. And so it's more of just combating that narrative and all the other narratives that go on

and say, I'm looking at my feet right now. If my feet are moving forward, that is evidence that the story in my mind is not the full truth. Can I just keep looking at my feet move forward? And will you do that sometimes out there? Yeah, yeah. You'll just sit there and watch them move forward.

I'll just watch and move forward. Even if the inside of you in your head is like, I can't do it. Your feet are saying we can do it. Wow. Because usually it feels like it's the other way around when you quit. In what way? Like, isn't it like,

sometimes it'll be my brain. Oh, no, maybe not. Well, your body, like breaking down and... But that's a real quit. That's like you can't do it. Yeah. Dude, that's... That's crazy, bro.

So you just keep proving to yourself with one next step that you can, until your brain, follows suit again. Yeah, and it'll come back around. Like, yeah. The narrative will be like, oh, he's proved it over the last 20 hours. We can stop feeding him this BS. It doesn't mean that you've completely overcome it. It might come back around, but it is, it's that right there. It's like, okay, I, and like every step, it's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So it's like constant evidence. It's constant evidence. It's not until I make this loop, I'll be able to prove to myself

that I can go. It's how can I break it down so that I'm giving myself evidence so fast that the narrative doesn't have an opportunity to like build on itself. Bro, that's wild. Yeah, because sometimes that thing is so strong, you need that much evidence. Yes. Yeah, and they say that in like recovery programs all the time. They say like you can't think your way in the right action, but you can act your way in the right thinking. Yes. And it just makes me think of that. Yeah.

Can I just take one more step in this direction? Huh. Yeah, I can. And most of the time that's the answer is yeah, I can. What do you not good at, Mark? Because if we keep sitting up here, just massaging each other's egos, this is not going to be cool. So what do you not good at?

I think that... Or where do you have... Where do you struggle? Where are some places that you struggle? I think I struggle with understanding that it's not all about me. The ego is so scary It is very scary It's like a shadow that gets longer

You don't even notice it It's like the more light that gets shine on you The shadow kind of gets longer And you don't even really notice it And you turn around And people are like, you're an asshole You're like, okay, well let me figure it out But no, but no

The ego is a scary thing Because you don't really know how it grows Or what causes it to grow sometimes You know And I can try and convince myself that I'm doing a good job of maintaining it, but that can also feed my ego.

Right, because look, I'm doing a good job of maintaining it. Yes. Who's doing that? I am. Fuck. I think that's what's kind of happened to me over. Like, yeah, dude, it's like, I don't know. It's interesting. But that's all the journey, too. It's like, yeah, I don't attach myself

to a ton of experiences. I kind of feel like it's just everything's just like an experiment sort of that I'm in. Yeah. But, like, Like, acclaim is an interesting thing. A claim? Being acclaimed for something. Having a claim for something. Like being applauded?

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because it's scary. Yeah. You know, because your ego will sit there and just listen to that all day. Yeah. And it's hard to, like, even if you try, like, I can tell myself, the applause don't matter.

But it's almost like my ego or the DNA still picks it up, picks up that frequency. It's like, I don't care what you say. we're going to still try and build you up a little bit. Yeah. Like a little gremlin in the dark. It is, dude. Yeah. How much have, what's your relationship been like with your own ability to create discipline for yourself?

I find myself struggling with that. So I struggle with, the word discipline is so weird because I just see it as discipline. is doing the basic things consistently. And sometimes that's hard for me to do. So I try and implement strategies where I can outsource that discipline. So in order to be a good runner, I'm lifting weights.

And I got my buddy Austin Yolkum, who is a guy I played football with and he's got his own gym in Minneapolis. And he's one of my great buddies. And he's the expert in the gym. If I tried to be the expert in the gym and go to like a planet fitness or someplace and try and do that on my own, I wouldn't have the discipline to do it because motivation isn't there. And motivation is like a feeling where you can't rely on that.

So for me- So motivation is not something you can rely on you don't think. At all. I don't rely on motivation at all. Because it's how often are you motivated? Like you never. I don't know. Like the more you do something, the less motivation plays a factor.

And dude, sometimes I get motivated I'll be like, oh, dude, I'm motivated. I'm fine. Yeah. It's a crazy shit. You're like, I'm good today. I'm feeling, dude. Bro, I'm motivated.

I don't even need to go do anything. I'm already doing good. And then I don't do anything. I love that. I love that you said that. That's crazy. I never thought about that shit, bro. So I show up in the morning to Yoakums, to lift.

and all I have to do is show up. And what's his gym call him? Yolkum strength. Yolkum strength. Yokum sounds like he's... That's his last name too. He's this huge dude with long hair. Oh yeah.

Land of 10,000 necks. Yeah, that's... Land of 10,000 traps. Yeah, bro. Dude. Bro, a mouse won't go near his back. Bro. Yolkum, that's him.

Oh, dang, bro. You could probably sell his semen on the market. And that's illegal too, people. But anyway. So I go to him. So you outsource. So you trust him. I trust him.

I don't have to think about my weightlifting. All I have to do is show up. And then when I'm there, I know that I'm in a space where if I give my best effort, I'm going to get the results because I trust him to do that. Got it. For running, I don't have a coach. And I am really bad at saying, all right, I'm going to set this schedule for this week. and I'm going to do 70 miles and I'm going to do 10 this day and seven this day.

Yeah, that's Austin right there. Oh, what's up, Austin. And so what I do is I outsource that. There's this challenge called the Calendar Club Challenge. And it's where you run the number of miles equal to the day of the month. So on the first you run one mile, then two miles, then three, all the way up to 30 or 31 miles at the end of the month. And you have to run every day? You have to run every day.

And for me, it's great because I know every mile I'm running for the entire month. I don't have to think about it. And it's a good challenge because toward the end of the month, you're starting to run a lot of miles that then help prepare me for hour 60 of a backyard ultra when my legs are tired, my brain's tired, I'm missing sleep a little bit more. I'm fatigued.

I'm underfueled because I'm burning so many calories and trying to maintain all of that. And so Calendar Club is like, now that's my discipline because I don't have to think about it I've outsourced the thought process or, you know, if I don't feel like running today, well, I got 20 miles to run a day. I got to go do that. I don't have a choice in this.

Got it. So you just made the commitment and you're in. And then you don't worry about all the extracurriculars of it. No. That's a lot, yeah, because that's too much sometimes. I don't want to think. Yeah. I do enough of that.

Thinking does not help us. No, it doesn't. I started to notice this a little bit. sometimes I'm just like my brain's running but I'm not thinking and when I start to notice that I'm like that's not good that's not the best thing because that's just my brain's like

it's just bullshit or whatever it's just like smoking or whatever I don't know what my brain is doing right now but it's just like it's like throwing old thoughts at me or don't you feel bad about this or remember this dude or whatever but it's not like usually fun stuff so it's usually just kind of like try

it's like your junk folder of an email account yeah it's like the guy with the and he's got the controller in his hand, dude. It's like, dude, give me back that controller. Bro, this is all just park weiner. Yeah. Get this guy out of here. Yeah, dude, this guy is out of my head.

What was he doing? And he had a crazy. The weiner seemed crazy. I only looked at it once. But it's... You didn't get a second look. I don't remember. I would have given a second.

I mean, I could draw it for you on a napkin if I had to. But what I'm saying is I only looked at it once, dude. And I was helping my girlfriend. Yeah. But anyway, uh, yeah. Dude, it was just like broad daylight and apart. But anyway, what I'm trying to say here is, but yeah, that's not thinking.

Yeah. Right, that's my brain just spinning around. So then I start to like, if my brain starts to think a little bit, like I'm actually thinking, like, oh, what do I think about this? Or how can I solve this or what's going on? I'll start, I want to try and like, I want to start like saying, oh, thank you, brain. Because then it's like, oh, good, I'm going to start thinking more. Because I think just with like phone and just life, you get so caught up.

Like a lot of times I'm not even thinking. I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. Like I like it when my brain thinks because it's doing something cool. It's like, how can we do this or what's going on? Or here's somebody's birthday today or somebody just got, you know, three years of recovery or somebody's heading off to like a psilocybin journey. Just little things so I can call and congratulate.

Just little things to my brain just not fill with my bullshit, right? Yeah. It's like, dude, if I get a thought in the morning of someone, else and it's not me, dude, it is like, oh, dude, it's like my heart just got like a Christmas present. Like the other day I woke up and I was thinking of my sister and it was like the best and I don't mean that in a weird way, but it was like the best thing ever. I was like, oh, so nice to wake up thinking about somebody else.

Have you found ways to cultivate that? Yes. For me, recently, it's been having a gratitude list. And people say gratitude lists all the time. But I don't think just writing things down, it doesn't help me. I have to write like, like I'll say like yesterday I was writing, I'm thankful for my friend Curtis, right? So then I'll think, why am I thankful for my friend Curtis? Well, I'm thankful for when we go on walks together and we talk about stuff.

We'll talk about faith. We'll talk about what's really going on in our lives. And so then I'll think about that. I'll think about, all right, that's me and Curtis. We're walking. We're talking about this. We'll joke around. You know, like we'll laugh a little bit.

We'll get serious. We'll share about things that have meant something to us. We'll go see his son play football. I'll think about that. And I'll think, oh, I get to sit in the stands. He's down there on the field. He's coaching his son, like how much pride he feels. His wife's in the stands.

She's cheering. They got some ridiculous lady that keeps blowing one of those horns or whatever. But I'll attach a lot of thoughts to it. And those thoughts make me feel something. So now I have a gratitude list, but I'm feeling something about it. Like this morning I wrote also, oh, I'm thankful for the doors in my house. And so I thought about, well, how do I feel when I open certain doors? How do I feel when I walk through them?

Right. So just trying to attach, like, actual moments to just the writing. And that's just been helping me somehow. I think it's just, I'm just cultivating a little bit more of that. I'm not saying I'm perfect or anything about it or anything. shit, I'm barely, you know what I'm saying? We do, we're, we out here. But, I mean, I, but that's a cool thing that I started to do.

And then here's the crazy part, I start kind of liking it. Yeah. Now I'm like, dude, I woke up and I was like, what is something I can be thankful for? And I didn't think that two months ago. Yeah. You know, I've always had a decent practice of it, but this is something else. Yeah, here's, he just says the, thanks for pulling this up, Trevin. Ultimately, gratitude is more complex than merely expressing courtesy or focusing on positive thinking. When you regularly focus or meditate on what you are thankful for, it causes effects that promote well-being, including psychology and physical health.

Gratitude affects the amygdala, which regulates the S-N-S. Not sure what that means. And our anxiety response is regularly journeying about gratitude or discussing it as part of a group, have long been parts of successful life coaching approaches. it reduces depression. That's something I do think maybe I'm getting... I hate talking about stuff, bro, if I'm new to it because I'm afraid it's going to go away. Well, okay, what I witnessed in you

when you were talking about it was like your eyes were closed and it was almost like you were back in that experience walking with your friend. Yeah. And you were back in that moment where you felt all that gratitude. So it was almost like... It was crazy watching this because it was like you were pulling out that experience

and you were feeling it. it right now. Yeah. And it's like, oh, wait, the more we feel the things we're most grateful for, it's like, man, that's going to carry with us. Yeah, dude, that's the thing. Like, I don't know. I'm just started the practice of it. I've probably been doing it about two months now, maybe six weeks, but it's just feeling good. And I have started to like it a little bit more. And the craziest thing is, I used to be able to only think of a few things I'm grateful for. And now it's like I'm being more. So, I don't know. It's been interesting. I'm sure. in two days, I'll just be vaping and laying there touching myself for no reason. But for now,

I feel like maybe something new could be going on. I heard you, you had a post this the other day that I thought was really cool. And you were talking, this was on Instagram, I think. And you were just talking about how things in your life wouldn't be possible without Jesus Christ, without your faith. Yeah. How is faith played a role? And how did faith like start in your life? Yeah. I mean, I grew up going to Catholic, you know, I was Catholic grade school, altar boy, all that stuff, stoked about funerals. That's why you're fast if you're an altar boy. Sorry. Sorry, Pat.

That might be a little bit. Hey, hey, it's okay. Sorry, Bishop. Yeah, you got a bishop coming on next week. You're going to have to explain yourself. And he's from Minnesota. Oh, really? Yeah.

Okay. He's from Minnesota. You're going to have to explain yourself to him. That's true. So went through that, went through Jesuit high school. went through, you know, it was a Catholic university, but never felt like it was a choice that I was making. And in high school, I struggled for a number of different reasons, but I struggled making strong, deep-rooted connections with people. So I always felt like an outsider. And so I always felt

like, in order for me to be a part of this group, I have to predict how I think they want me to live and be like and the amount of, I don't know if I'd call it anxiety, but like, I, it was this scared mindset of like trying to predict how they wanted me to act and always getting it wrong and then trying to figure, like I was always living up in my head, thinking I knew what was going up in your mind and trying to live that way. Ooh, yeah. Bro, you're like an EMT, dude. Yeah, when you're living like that, you were literally like an EMT.

You're just like sitting there wait, like you're like a response team. Yes. It's like, how do I respond? Right, yeah. That shit's hectic. Some of that could be being young, but I think also that it's interesting that you were noticing that. Okay, go on. And so leaving high school, I had sort of made this quiet promise with myself that I didn't want to feel that way again.

And so I chased acceptance. I was like, I'm going to do whatever I can to get people to like me and not live this way anymore. And a lot of the things were like, be successful in sports, drink and have a good time. And, you know, I would let my friend shoot me with a blow dart being drunk or shoot me with a BB gun because that was fun. I was I was the center of attention. Yeah, shoot me. Yeah, dude, hatchet me. Exactly.

Cut off my leg. Who cares, bro? Let's go. And that worked for a while. You know, that works. And eventually that led me into a place where I was like, you know, getting in trouble with alcohol, having regrets, having shame, talking about, you know, the things that I talked about earlier of just like bottling up emotions and having that come out in negative ways. That shame's crazy, bro. It's wild.

It'll do some dark things to you. It's crazy. I think most of our country, I don't know, I think a lot of us are living in shame, especially men because of probably pornography. and stuff like that. Yeah. And how it's just been able to be so accessible, you know, like how it was just like,

I don't know. Imagine how much shame is rocking around out there. And how shame can be used to control you. Yeah. This is wild. In my spam, in my email, this is like a couple months ago.

Someone was trying to, what do you call it? Like, hold me hostage for like Bitcoin. They're like, you got to pay us this amount because we saw you through your camera watching porn. No way. And I gave up watching porn when I started following Christ a little over two and a half years ago. And I'm grateful for that.

And I thank God for that because maybe in the darkness of me doing that consistently and feeling that shame, I would have allowed that shame to control me. But I'm set free from that now. And I know that's a lie because that's not something that I do anymore. And it's just like... Imagine how many people are falling to that. Yeah. And how you wouldn't. I hope I don't get it.

But bring that up. If that's a scam right now, let's take a peek at it. I'm 29 days off of pornography right now. Good. Good. So I'm feeling it's the most I've done in a long time. I can't even believe it. It's freeing.

But I'm going to keep believing it. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Instead of just being like, I can't even... I'm just going to keep believe it. in it.

Reports of scammers claiming they recorded people watching pornography via their webcam or widespread form of extortion known as sex extortion. The threat. Victims receive an email or letter claiming a hacker took over their computer,

activated their webcam, and recorded a split screen video of them viewing explicit websites. The scare tactics. Scammers often include an old password stolen from a past corporate or website data breach. Wow. In the email subject line or body to trick the recipient and to believing their device is fully compromised. Some advanced variants even include a Google Street View image

of the victim's house to induce panic. That's crazy. The demand. The sender threatens to send the fabricated video to the victim's family, friends, or coworkers unless a ransom, usually paid in Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency is sent with a strict deadline. Oh my God. God. Wow. I didn't know this was happening, dude. Yeah. It is a bluff. Cybersecurity experts and law enforcement agencies note that their claims are almost always entirely false. The scammers do not have a video of you. Do not have access to your webcam and generally do not possess your content list. Data is bought and spoofed. The password used as proof was bought cheaply off the dark web from old unrelated leaks and the email address is often spoofed to look like it came from your own account.

That's crazy. I didn't know all that was going on. Did you? I did just from my experience. Right. Wow. Dude, I'm glad we talked about that because I can't even imagine, I mean, every dude I know would send at least $30. Yeah.

Or $60. Or something like that. Yeah, at least $140 probably. I mean, every dude I know would continue. continually, or not every you, but a lot of dudes have fallen prey to it and to think of your webcam. Oh, man. Well, it's, at least for me at that time, it was aimed at fulfilling a need that I thought that I could fulfill with something worldly. And yes, pleasure in that regard.

Yes, acceptance from people in high school and trying to change that in college and chasing achievement and getting to a point where none of these things fulfilled me. And I think I feel really encouraged and compelled to like, man, there's a lot of things that we think that are going to give us what only God can give us. Yeah. And I think it's interesting that, you know, porn is something that is kind of commonplace and yet it is being used against us. And I think that is something that is important because I did feel shame around it. And I think the answer wasn't to pretend to not feel shame around it. It was to reconcile why I feel shame around it and understand that there's a better way to honor life.

and honor my thoughts and bring them closer to what God would want them to be. Yeah. And you just have, we had my friend on here who's a poor, he's a pornography recovery coach, right? And he's amazing, dude. He's the greatest dude. He's been through so much. But just all the things that hijacks that we don't even realize,

it's like the way then that you look at your spouse, the way that you communicate with women in general. Yes. Just the energy you bring into the world even. You know, like even if I've been yurking off or whatever, if I'm going out in the world, my energy is just different. So it's like, I don't know, it's not a pressure to make anybody feel bad, but just like, yeah, it's, it is like a, it is like, it's your own spirit and this like, and this greater

energy. Yeah. Of, like, of a connection with God that you could just, that I believe you get disconnected from. I felt like I was a slave to it, like in the, in the, was habit for me. Yeah. And it's like you close the door, you close the shades. It's like everything about it made me feel like I needed to hide myself from the world. Yeah.

And then I would take that with me. And like you said, like people that you would see, women that you would see, it would change how I viewed them. And it would change how I viewed my spouse. Yeah. Yeah, it's all damaging. And I think the way we interact with all that stuff just has an effect. That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean.

I just mean like if somebody's like realizing like, man, I'm having trouble in my relationship. I'm having trouble in. even just like being around my kids or going to do something fun or having more time. All of that gets affected, I think, or the little side effects we don't notice. What about, like, sexual, like, activity before a race?

Will you not engage? Like, what is that like? Because for boxers, they say that that's a thing, you know? What's it like for a marathon runners? Because if I'm going to run 95 miles, maybe it's better if my wife's waiting for me there at the end than if I just left out of a room, you know? Yeah, I actually haven't thought about that too much.

Really? It's not on your radar. No. Huh. Yeah. Oh, yeah, and I interrupted you about when you were talking about your relationship with God. Yeah. I wouldn't say interrupt, but we, yeah, I would say through chasing all these different things

that I thought would fulfill me, I would come up empty. And for me, it was, you know, I was running around thinking that running was going to be the thing that would give me fame and sponsorships. and financial freedom and all of these things that I thought I wanted, and none of it was happening for me. And I felt empty. You just weren't achieving those things?

Yeah, they weren't coming in the way that I wanted them to. And even in the ways that they were, it wasn't enough to keep me happy and joyful. It was almost like it was doing the opposite. Wow, so did you almost, like, did it get to a point where you were almost going to quit running at one point? point? Not necessarily quit, but have a, try and figure out what the point of me running was. Got it. You know, I had started doing the charity runs with my friend and have this beautiful

relationship. And then somewhere along the way, it became this avenue of like, well, I want to be professional at this. And in order to be a professional, I need followers, money, and sponsors. Right. And those, yes, are like tangible things that help. you become a professional, but I was chasing them for their end, like for what they could do for me. And yeah, I was on a run and I was listening to a podcast with Cameron Haynes and Sally McCrae. And they were talking about how in the deepest, darkest moments during the races, that they are reminded that they are made by a strong creator. And that they are, that creator, that strength is in them because they're made in his image, image and his likeness. And that thought, I was like, maybe this is something that I need to think about.

I didn't know how to do that, but it was a thought that was put on my heart. And not even five miles later, I come across a friend. His name is Vince. I hadn't seen him in a year. And he's sitting by the lake reading a Bible. I'm like, what's up, Vince? Like, how are you doing? What are you doing out here?

What brings you out here? He's like, I have fallen. from my faith and something about today, the Holy Spirit put on my heart that I need to come here and I need to read scripture. And the verse he was reading when I interrupted him was in the book of John. And it's, it's I'm paraphrasing, but it said, the reason you do not know God is because you are not of God. And to me, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, I didn't know what was going to fulfill me. was chasing all of these things and they weren't they weren't doing it and now i have this thought of like well what is what is a relationship with god look like and that scripture was like well if you

want to find out go find out go do something about it go take action uh join a men's group go go to church go to some place that you can learn more about understanding what the kingdom of god is all about And from that point, I started actually taking steps forward. It's like if you want to build a relationship with a person or a spouse, you don't do so by staying distant from them. You get to know them, you talk to them, you learn about how they love and how they are calling you to live and how they're calling themselves to lives. And that's what I started with was just like, hey, okay, let me open the Bible. I've never done that before. Let me crack it open.

Yeah. Yeah. What does that even mean? Yeah, yeah. And those Bibles up in Minnesota, they sound like a can of beer when you open them, some of them, you know? There's a lot of beer up there. Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. Yeah. And so I wanted to hear God, man. Yeah. I, because I had tried everything. Oh, there you go. Dude, that's it. I tried everything.

What else is there, you know? Like, yeah, like when do I admit that to my... You know, like I'd tried everything. I tried everything. Yeah. I tried to do it my way. Yeah. I just tried everything, you know?

It's crazy to think that God made us because he loved us, you know? That's one of the wildest things. It's not wild, but it's like, yeah, the other day we're at this, I go to a Bible study, and they have, uh, they were just talking about asking God what you could do for his kingdom, you know? And like, sometimes if you can really get in a good space and really ask that, I just, I'd never thought about it before, you know, just like really asking God, what can I do for you? Yeah. You know, like sometimes you can really get in a space where you really feel like a connection, you know, sometimes you're just, you know, I'm saying, you got to be, you know,

there's 30 miles on the counter, it's the 30th of the month, and you've got to hit the road, you know, and your drive-through praying, you were like in the, you know, you're just getting coffee at the window, but sometimes you go inside the, yeah, the man. McDonald's of the Lord. And you really get in there on your knees and you, yeah, I don't know. But yeah, it's like, man, God, what can I do for you? You know? Yeah, it's kind of cool.

Because then you could get to do something. And it's not for yourself. Yeah. Sometimes it's flipping burgers in the back. Yeah, that is fine, dude. Sometimes it's in the play center. Yeah, dude. Sometimes it's just being an adult that's,

sitting in the ball pit vaping, dude. That's, if that's where God has you. But, no, I don't know. I think there is like, I don't know, there can be like some excitement. And like, yeah, there's excitement in that space. If you can, if you can get there with it. I think there's excitement in that space of like, yeah,

what could God want me to do? You know, who could you put in my life that there could be some new way to learn? Or I don't know. It's just easier when it's like, like maybe if something good happens it's not just with I'm not the only one to sit there and you can be like oh thanks God

you know it's like God that's cool it's like I'm not the only one it's not just oh yeah otherwise I'm just sitting there by myself oh that was cool that was neat yeah you know but it's like to have somebody to share something with when when you were thinking about that in that space

were there clear answers that came up for you um no not Not really. I think it was just like, I felt just grateful that I was thinking about it. You know? Yeah. I think it's just better than sitting there with my thoughts and my thoughts are just my own. Yeah.

You know, I think it just feels like some reprieve. Yeah. So I think that's kind of where I'm at with like some of the relationship with God or like kind of like what's going on with me with it, I guess. I don't know. It's always a little bit different. But yeah, I don't know if I'd ever even thought I'd exactly have this conversation. Right.

You know? So I think it's just like little things you start to notice, you know. And I'm in a Bible study, man. You know, this thing that was like kind of nice that happened. There's this musician, his name is Zach John King. And I think he just had a new album that came out, actually. But he had, there's this new book. It's called Theo on Golden.

Okay. It's by Alan Levy or Alan Levi. Okay. And it's about an old man who goes into this, sort of who goes into this coffee shop in this town called Golden. But anyway, my buddy Zach, John, my buddy Zach had given me this book and he'd, and it was wrapped up in paper. And he said, oh, my dad really loved this book. And he thought that you would like it. So he gave it to me as a gift.

And I just put it in my truck. and like two weeks later his father passed away. It was like a sudden heart attack. And then two weeks after that, I realized I still had this book in my truck. I'd never opened it up. And I opened it up. And his dad had written in it.

He was just like, I'm so grateful you and my son are friends, and I'm so grateful that you guys are learning about God together. Wow. And it was just like this like, I don't know. It was just like little things, you know. Yeah. But it was like a nice moment that he and I got to have

that his father was like, you know, his father's still alive here through these words. And I don't know, I'm kind of not doing the story justice, but... No, you are. It was pretty special. And he's a special guy. And it kind of just gave us a like this little connection, you know? So it's just interesting.

I don't know. It's all kind of interesting. I get scared to talk about some of that kind of stuff because sometimes Christian people can be like, you know, they can nail you to the cross. You know what I'm saying? It's like, bro, he already did that for us. You know what I'm saying, bro?

Put your toolbox down, Karen. So that's on, sometimes it's like, I don't know, some of that stuff I get nervous talking about in some ways. I know I shouldn't. I don't get nervous talking. I think maybe like in a public way. Yeah. Does it make sense to you?

It does make sense to me. And it brings up what you said earlier is like, I have a fear of, I don't know enough. So I feel like the knowledge of it, like almost like I have to have a certain knowledge of it to be able to talk about it. And like if that's what you say,

like you get nailed to the cross. Like this is where I'm at in my faith journey. Yeah. And this is what I know, which is not very much. Yeah. But I'm still curious about it. Yeah.

And some of the stories, dude, are not even that good. I'm going to go ahead and say that. straight up, bro. I'm no Dr. Seuss or whatever or like freaking Oprah or whatever. But some of the stories in there, it's like, bro,

this is a B-side track, dude. Let's be realistic. So I think I'm focusing on like the hits right now. Okay. You know? Yeah. But the hits are good, dude. But that's what I'm saying.

The hits are good. Yeah, the hits hit, bro. But yeah, not to be ashamed and also to be transparent. You know, like there's been times where like faith is kind of coming in my life in some ways and then it's going away Yeah, you know, and I don't know what that's like I don't know But yeah like I had this like I don't know had some found some other numbers on sextortion if you wanted to read these off we can plug it in yeah dude I didn't even know let's get back okay great Thank you so much

Oh these are keys sex extortion is one of the fastest growing online crimes in the world with law enforcement and safety organizations reporting an unprecedented surge in case over recent years. While it's difficult to map the exact global numbers, estimated 98% of cases go unreported due to their fear and shame. I could totally see that. The explosion in reports, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the United States received 26,718 extortion reports via its cyber tip line in 2023, a massive jump from 10,700 reports in 2022, and just 139 in 2021. So it's growing. NCMEC now averages roughly 812 reports of extortion per week.

Teenage Impact. Research from Youth Advocacy Organization Thorn indicates that one in five teenagers report experiencing some form of extortion online. Other youth studies place the rate at around 1 and 20. Dude, that's got to be horrible for kids. Teenage boys and young men are most at risk. Young men age 14 to 24 have become. the primary targets of financial extortion. For example, reports from cyberclip.ca indicate that 83% of victims are male when the gender is known.

Dang. Bomber. And LGBTQ youth studies show that LGBTQ plus individuals plus Enes Cantor experience disproportionately higher rates of both victimization and subsequent mental health distress compared to their peers. probably because they're saying not only were you looking at pornography but you were looking at gay pornography. Yeah. Oh, dude.

Dark. Dark. That's why we got to keep going. Yeah. One step. Forward. That's it. Forward.

One step at a time. Let's look at some of this Mark Daudel porn. Sorry. Sorry, I did not mean that. We'll take that out. Let's look at some of this Mark Dattel core. That's what I meant, dude. Some of the Mark Dattle core that's out.

out there. All right. Let's just add to the lore from what a menace this dude must be when you're out there running. It's the middle of the night. A lot of these men have not even seen their wives or children for three days. And this total menace comes up the course. Let me see some of it, bro. And this was at the most recent race.

This was at the ultra, yeah? Yeah. This message is for Sam Harvey back at base camp. I didn't come for 158 souls I came for all 159 Oh my God I heard it I heard it

I heard it My favorite part is listening to the commentators on that Oh bro that crazy dude Do you have to keep your mentality That high out there? Like is it an active thing like No Are there active moments where you're like

Okay what do I think of now to get me to that finish line Like, okay, I'm going to think of, this loops for my family, this loops for my mom, this loops for my, you know, do you think like that? Are there little things you think of that get you to that next moment? Yes and no. I mean, there's one thing that kept me going out there, at least deeper into the race, is like, part of what I get to do in running is that's how I provide for my family. And through the different avenues of what that represents, um, Some of the best things that I get to do is I get to come home the week after or the weeks after and it'll be a Wednesday. And my wife and I will get to hang out and not worry about where we need to be. And if I can step further into that darkness, if I can take steps towards the discomfort and overcome the pain of that situation, the reward for that is a movie on a Wednesday with my wife. brother, I will go through more pain to experience that type of freedom and peace. Yeah.

And so, like, that is a big thing that keeps me going out there is this pain is nothing compared to the light that is waiting for me. Wow. And I know that's coming for me. Right. And if I can stay here and sit in it. Let me pivot tab right now. Yeah, let's go. Let's go.

Yeah, like make it harder, actually. Like, bring it on. Because light and love will always overcome the darkness. That's in running and that's in life and that's in our faith. That's in our family and our friends, our relationship, everything. Light and love will overcome the darkness. And these races provide me evidence for that. And I get to keep stepping into that.

And yeah, my wife is a big, big light in my life. Lucy's her name. Yeah, which means light. Does it really? Yeah, it does. Nice, Lucy. and you guys have a baby on the way. We do have a baby.

Is that true? That is true. Yeah. Let's go. So that was another, you know. And do you know if it's going to be a boy or girl yet? We don't know that yet. Brother, we, uh, I don't know why I keep saying brother like that.

It's okay, dude. But, uh, I'll put on a Hulk Hogan shirt if you want. Whatever you got to do to get through this. We had the first 10-week ultrasound. And we met with the midwife. two days ago, and I heard the heartbeat for the first time. Wow. And you've never done a 10-week ultra.

Uh-uh. Never, never, never done a 10-week ultra. But the baby has already. What the baby has. Wow. So we know where this kid's headed. To the loop. Strut. It's another loop.

Oh, congratulations, man. Was that pretty amazing? Yeah, it was. Wow, dude. It's hard to put into words because I, like, I heard the heartbeat, and it was like, this is life. And I'm listening to it, but I can't see it. Yeah.

But it's there. Mm. It was just a weird, I don't even know what the, yeah, it was beautiful. Yeah. Oh, yeah, dude. And you know what's so interesting about the heartbeat that I think about sometimes, Mark? It's like, my heartbeat, it's my father and my mother's heartbeat. It's together, right?

Mm. So what's like this, like this beat has been going? Mm. Like, the radio has been left on, bro. Like, this is like, this is like the timbre of like, I mean, I don't even know how long my family's even been alive. Yeah. But it's like, it's the same. Like, this beat is just, I'm just a remix of all the people that have been here and that created me, dude.

And that's it. Like, that's what you make. Like, you make the beat. Yeah. It's pretty crazy really when you think about it. Yeah. So sometimes, like, if you miss your mother or you miss your father, if there's somebody like, you can like, like, that's why, like, that beat is just right there. It's kind of wild sometimes.

Sometimes I'll do that and just like Kind of like think about a family member that's gone You know it's kind of cool That is really cool I never thought about that Yeah that's the thing bro That's the remix bro That's the Markdown Lucy remix bro that's the new track

Another loop man This is another loop bro That's perfect You do public speaking now You go out and talk to people and share What's your journey and your faith Is it basically most or what is some of that out when you go to different schools and events?

Yeah. So the way I think about running is in these three buckets under the same mission of I'm trying to figure out what I'm truly capable of and I want to help other people discover that too. The first bucket is I demonstrate that. I do the Arrowhead 135s. I do the back yard ultras and I put the words into action. The next step is share that.

Share the tools and the lessons that I use in the toughest moments out on the race. on the course to help me overcome those. And then whether that's through YouTube or Instagram or going out and publicly speaking that to young men and women who, you know, man, I would have loved to hear these lessons as a high school and college kid where I was struggling to find my purpose and my identity and what was really important and to corporations who are looking for ways to kind of rejuvenate their culture. So then there's that aspect. And the third is to create opportunities for that to happen. So, like, one thing we do in Minnesota,

with my buddy Kellan in his business, it's a sauna cold tub business, and we'll run three miles in the middle of the winter when it's minus 10 degrees out, and we'll run to a cold spot in the Mississippi River, we'll crack open the ice with sledgehammers, we'll take a two-minute cold prunge, and then we'll run two miles back to the sonas and embrace north.

And what I get to experience in that moment is somebody who is afraid of what this experience could be and watch that fear build over three miles. And then they get to a hole and they jump in. And it's like all that fear that they'd built up in their mind, they realized the experience was not as scary as the reality of the situation. And that's what being in a backyard is for me. That's what being in a, you know, the arrowhead is for me. It is experience that and how can I bring that to people? And so the public speaking is a way for me to like share this lesson and then show people like,

you can do this too. You don't have to do, you know, 94 hours in a backyard to experience that. Ooh, that guy got in the one with the two ladies in there, bro. That's what I'm talking about, dude. That guy picked me. Dude, I've never seen two ladies in the Mississippi River. either dude. But this dude knows... Hey, that's what happens upstream.

Hell, you get... Come upstream more often. I'm off stream! Dude, what happens upstream? Stays upstream, bro. Mark Dattle, thanks so much, man. Is there anything else that you want to discuss before you go? No, I just want to thank you. Thank you for your time.

And like I said earlier, thank you for the way that you think about things because it's truly encouraging to hear you think and talk out loud. and it encourages me to be able to do that more and more without fear of needing to be perfect. Oh, thanks, dude. Yeah, I'm just trying my best, you know?

I think most people are. And sometimes, yeah, and even then I wish I did better at it. You know what, that's a crazy statement. I'm trying my best. And then the next statement out of my mouth is, man, I wish I did better at it. That's just proof right there what I'm talking about. Like, got to monitor these voices, man.

But so grateful I got to hear yours today, dude. And that's one that's going to keep ringing in my ear. and yeah, just thanks so much for your journey. Tell Lucy thank you for letting her husband leave while she's pregnant and letting you escape. And yeah, dude, we'll be keeping tabs. And we want to donate to your friend's charity for his mother. It's called Lori? Love Like Lori Legacy.

Love Like Lori Legacy. Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, you bet we'll keep in touch about it and we'll donate to it right here. That's what it is, love like Lori.com. living the legacy run. And when is the run? So this run, the website's a little bit outdated, but you can still donate to it.

But this was the third charity one we did, which was a 500-mile run from Springfield, Illinois, to St. Paul. Okay. I'll be in the van, but... This happened in 2022. Oh, it did. Yes, yes, yes.

Excellent. Got it, got it, got it. Well, Lori, we miss you. And I'm grateful to think about you today. and say your name out loud. And, um, yep,

Mark Dottel, thanks so much, brother. Thank you for you. Yeah, man. Now, I feel I'm pleased I must be. I'll share this piece.