This Past Weekend - #690 - Josh Brolin

Starting point is 00:00:00 On October 16th, the King returns. Sylvester Stallone returns as my boss Dwight Manfredi in Tulsa King, the Paramount Plus hit series widely considered as one of the best gangster TV shows ever. This season, Dwight faces his most dangerous adversary yet, a ruthless enemy determined to take him down piece by piece. With threats mounting against them, Dwight and his crew prepare for the the biggest fight of their lives. Now that his empire is on the line, Dwight will do whatever it takes to protect everything he's built. Tulsa King, the new season, streaming October 16th only on

Starting point is 00:00:43 Paramount Plus. I want to say that my new special, I'm Doing Fine, is out October 20th on Netflix. So thank you guys so much for your support. And I'm excited about it. And I hope that you'll give it a shot. And I also wanted to let you know that we've got a full restock on your favorite merch over at Theovon store.com. We loaded up on the Be Good to Yourself Scribble T's and a new Ratcon drop so you can check that out. Again, it's Theovon store.com if there's something there that you choose to get. And yeah, just amen, man. Thank you, guys. He's a legendary actor known for movies like No Country for Old Men, Dune,

Starting point is 00:01:30 Sukario. The list goes on. Goonies. His new film Whalefall is in theaters this week. A wonderful time catching up with the Cito Rat himself. Mr. Josh Brolin. And I don't want to find out what's behind door number two with Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:02:06 You take what he gives you. Totally. So. Hey, man. Thanks for having me on your show. Dude, thank you for being here, man. Seriously. It's nice to see you.

Starting point is 00:02:15 You too, bro. It's a pleasure, bro. It's, yeah, it's up, and I don't know if I can say this, and I can take this part out, it's nice to talk to another alcoholic. Totally. Is that okay to say? Yeah, I think everybody knows it by now. Okay.

Starting point is 00:02:29 I don't know if everybody knows it with you. They definitely know it with me. I don't really talk about AA, but I talk about sobriety a lot. Okay. Yeah. And that, are you sure that's okay if I said that? Fuck yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:02:39 Because God, dude, yeah. It's like, if you see somebody else that's, you know, I don't know, it just feels like something's a little different. Yeah, there is. And you're out there now. You know, it's funny. I was thinking, I'll tell you this story really quick. Celsius, I guess, is your company or not your company, but you're sponsored by them or whatever.

Starting point is 00:02:56 Liquid death. Yeah. So liquid death, I have like a little tiny steak in or whatever. And the whole reason why liquid deaths did so well, because if you look at the cans, they look like 40s. Yeah. Right. And people are drinking less and less. Like whether they're getting sober or not is kind of beside the point.

Starting point is 00:03:12 But they're drinking kids or drinking less and less. So they'd go to these concerts and they'd have these cans and the kids started drinking these cans that are full of water and it made them feel like they weren't ousted that they weren't going to be judged because they weren't drinking because they had a can in their hand that looked like they were having a beer.

Starting point is 00:03:31 Oh yeah, you're still in the group. When that metal hits your lips. Seriously, man, right? Yeah, there's a little bit of... And when you hear that, it's great. Yeah, you almost like... And even as a sober guy, like, I'm cool with that. I like that sound.

Starting point is 00:03:43 I want that sound to continue. continue in my life, I just don't want the fucking drunk with it. Right. Oh, dude, sometimes I would lay in bed and just open cans of that over and over again. Out of like seven cans. What, after you got sober? Yeah. That just is remembrance, remembrance of things passed.

Starting point is 00:04:01 What'd you do tonight? Uh-huh. Yeah, it's nice to be sober, man. And it's nice to know a sober buddy. And there's something else. We saw each other outside and we didn't talk. But I think that was the first. first thing that popped in both of our minds. Yeah. And it's cool. It kind of like, it gives me a little bit

Starting point is 00:04:20 of an exhale because honestly, dude, it just feels like so much less pressure for some reason. Yeah, that's cool. You know? I like that. Yeah, I like that too, man. So thank you so much for being here, dude. Yeah, man. It's a pleasure to see what I would look like if I were a little handsomer. Or a little gnarlier. A little more angry. A little more angry. But you're not. You just, you have, like, you look very welcoming, man. You're a very welcoming face. Oh, thank you. dude. You are, man. I appreciate you saying that, dude. Um, Cito rats that I'm reading your hat. That's your company? No, that's a group that I grew up with. If you want to get heavy for a second. Yeah, let's get a bit. Dude, I got my rat on my sweatshirt. Is that a rat? Oh, wait. What is that?

Starting point is 00:05:03 Because, uh, they call me the rat king. Wait, get the fuck out of here. Seriously? So you made that? Yeah, this is part of our merchandise. So I made this. I just took over the, the, what is it, the trademark for this. Oh, you did? Cedo. So the guys that I grew up with called themselves the Cito rats because they were in Montecito. And Montecito now is perceived like fucking Oprah Haven or something, which is fine. So fancy now. Yeah, there's a nucleus of like a lot of money and especially actors or industry people. But the group that I grew up with, 36 out of 50 or dead from shit that we were just talking about. Really?

Starting point is 00:05:42 So, and then my buddy would always talk about, hey, man, you remember that place that we were this? And I had a needle hanging out of my neck. And do you remember on the corner of Romero Canyon and all this stuff? And I said, I'm so sick of hearing those stories that I'm going to spearhead this whole thing. So I've brought the whole thing back as a like survived and updated, like new and improved. And that's the idea of the brand and also of the humans. Yes. Survived and updated. Both survived and updated. Amen, bro. So yeah. So if you look up Cito, right. you can kind of get because like I don't know if you ever saw bra boys in maruba like there was a group of surfers there bra boys and they did a documentary on it you can watch that there's de hui in hawaii there was wolf pack and kala there were sito rats kind of like skaters skaters would have what who were the guys down south was you know tony alva and all those guys z boys dog town and z boys then you had end men and like Sacramento and you had different, like that was the skater. We were the surfer version of that. The Cedar rats.

Starting point is 00:06:47 Yeah, because like Dogtown and Z-Boys, those guys, it wasn't like Jay Adams was severe. He was the only guy who was severe. Jay Adams, can you help me out, Nick, a little bit? Yeah, there you go. Hit that picture. Yeah. Let's go. He was a dogtown guy, but he was the only one of that dogtown group that was like that.

Starting point is 00:07:07 Got it. Whereas if you look at N-Men in Sacramento, I don't know if you want to bring and men, but N men in Sacramento, everybody was like that. So the surf groups, they were all like that. Cito rats were all like that. Got it. So he was a real one.

Starting point is 00:07:24 He was a real one. Amen, bro. RIPJ Adams, dude. Bring up Cito rats and see what comes up. The Monticito. Yeah, dude, the rats, bro. Well, it's funny you talk about rats that they were surfers because here's one of the reasons why I correlate with rats. For one,

Starting point is 00:07:42 Rats can swim for up to three days, right? They can tread water for up to three days, dude. Right on. So that is a survival. Like, that thing is a fucking, that's a badass motherfucker. Dude, that is a badass, dude. That's a badass. Imagine you go out on a fishing trip with your buddies with your rich friends.

Starting point is 00:07:59 Everybody's drowned around you. You still got the rats sitting there. Like, I'm good, man. I'm good. I got another two days in me. Yeah, yeah. So that's pretty cool. And rats have whiskers that are extremely sensitive.

Starting point is 00:08:11 That's how they pick up a lot of information. I'm super sensitive. So it's like that's a correlation for me. And this is one of my favorites. Rats, they don't vomit. They won't vomit. So that's why they're able to live in the shit. That's why they're able to live in the muck

Starting point is 00:08:26 and have it just the like the worst, in the worst spaces. Because they don't vomit? Yeah, it's like it doesn't get to them. Like it doesn't like, it doesn't affect them. Like they're all factory senses and stuff. So they're able to stay in there. So there's something that's like,

Starting point is 00:08:41 I don't know, like even in like the... Just like a cockroach, like super resilient. Yeah, but an upscale cockroach. Yeah, like shoddy thick. Like a rat is an upscaled cockroach. Oh, it's a fucking bro. That's wild with the whiskers. The whiskers being sensitive and you called yourself super sensitive like an empath.

Starting point is 00:09:01 Is that what they call it? I don't know about it. I don't know what that is. I don't know what an impath is. Me neither. A person who experiences the emotions, energy, and physical feelings of other people as if they were their own. I think sometimes I'm like that.

Starting point is 00:09:13 I think honestly I didn't develop and I never thought about this. Sometimes I didn't really develop my own sense of feelings when I was growing up. And so sometimes I think you almost take those, you take moments off of other people's lives

Starting point is 00:09:26 and existences and that's why sometimes they feel like a lot. Does that make sense at all? No, it does make sense. And this is not like a ploy to try to talk about, but I wrote a book a year and a half ago and it had to do like kind of anecdotal

Starting point is 00:09:41 paintings of how I grew up. And my mom was a wildlife activist. So we had wolves in our house. We had mountain lions. We had- In your house? In and out of our house. Like my-

Starting point is 00:09:53 My brother had 60 stitches in his leg at six years old from a wolf. And my mom definitely prioritized those animals more than us. So the point is that emotions and all that weren't, it's not that they weren't allowed. It's just there was so, There was such a high level of chaos that you just didn't, you know, what were you going to do?

Starting point is 00:10:18 Like go in a corner and like cry or like talk to your parents about like how you were scared you were going to be eaten. Like it just wasn't. It's just that wasn't part of the deal. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I think when you have to be so alert, like you're saying there's chaos, we have to be so alert. It's hard for some of those other things.

Starting point is 00:10:34 I feel like I'm not having self pity. I'm just thinking I think it's hard for some of that other world to develop inside of you because you're just on a, you know, Totally. You're just like, you're like somebody who's got to do night watch day and night. Totally. Seriously. And don't you think,

Starting point is 00:10:47 I mean, like to just bring it full circle that that's why we drank? I mean, what were you like when you drank? Because when I drank, it was like, it was like, God feeling.

Starting point is 00:10:56 It was like, I don't have to think at all now. I can do whatever I want. And I don't have that little voice in there going, oh, you're a piece of shed or you're, you can't do that. You're not good enough.

Starting point is 00:11:08 Or you're not, like all that went away. Except, you know. My version of it was it just there was no limit. There was no ceiling. What were you like when you were drunk? When I drank, I was like somebody that was going to get cocaine.

Starting point is 00:11:25 How about how you said that deadpan. Oh, to be honest with you. Seriously. Oh, yeah. I'm not even joking. Oh, no. Yeah, when I drank, it was like I just like, I think I just drank just because I, like, I didn't love drinking that much.

Starting point is 00:11:39 Me neither. It was hard. Really? Interesting. It was hard for me to even realize I was an alcoholic because I didn't, my friends were shocked. Like, you're an alcoholic, dude. Like, you're a fucking weird ho, but you're not an alcoholic. You got a freak.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Yeah, yeah, you got a lot of other shit that I would worry about before that. But no, I think it made me go, like, because cocaine, I think it made me be able to feel immediately how, I could feel immediately some way. And I don't, there was something about that. Like I'm gonna control how I feel right now and it wasn't even the best feeling. I think it was a scared feeling But I think deep on the other sides of me there was a lot of scared feelings and for some reason it was like two bookends Yeah and finally there was something like I don't even know but sometimes I theorize little things like so is that with alcohol or cocaine That was with cocaine. It was just like I'd have the only reason I wanted to drink was if it get then I could have an excuse to go to go to go to go go to go away Well you drank and then suddenly it wasn't like wasn't even a choice you had to go get coffee right or it was like

Starting point is 00:12:40 It was an immediate thing. Oh, I'd see a child riding by on a bike, and I'd like, oh, I should get some Coke. I could look at a calendar, like, oh, Easter's in four months. I'll grab a bag. The Coke brought me down. Dude, cocaine helped me quit vaping. What way? It just, I think, sometimes.

Starting point is 00:12:56 It took the place of everything else that any other vice you may have had. It was all vices in one. Well, sometimes a cocaine hangover, it would be a couple days, and I didn't want to do anything else to damage myself during that time. so it would give me enough time away from nicotine. Anyway. Anyway. I won't bring it up again. No, it's okay.

Starting point is 00:13:16 It's interesting to talk about. You know what is nice? It's fun to laugh about. Totally. Because it takes the air out of whatever part of me that wants to behave that way. Yeah. It makes it fun. And it makes it like, I don't know, for a second, you have some community.

Starting point is 00:13:29 And that's all I ever really wanted. I think it's more fun. It is more fun. I honestly. I don't say that just to say it because I think other people want to hear it. I actually think it's more fun. And I had a fucking. last when I was using.

Starting point is 00:13:41 Did you? And I have more fun now. Yeah. Let's go. More fun. I do. Oh, dude, I believe you had it so much fun, dude. If I fucking, dude, I was doing it and I was pretty ugly looking.

Starting point is 00:13:51 You know what I'm saying? Like you're fine. What are you talking about? Why do you keep saying that? I mean, I did it and I looked like me, right? If I looked like you, I would have been definitely out partying, bro. Dude, I had to have a couple drinks to think I looked like you. All right.

Starting point is 00:14:10 But let's rewind it, man. Okay, good. Let's do it back in a little bit. Dude, so what do you mean? Your brother got attacked by a wolf? Yeah. And you guys were what, just like, was it like a regular night or was it like, like, like, what do you? So we lived in Paso Orblos, we lived on a ranch.

Starting point is 00:14:23 And Paso Robles? Yeah. North of here. And we lived in a 200, on a 230-acre ranch. Oh, wow. My mom was from Texas. My mom is from Corpus Christi, Texas. Five foot three.

Starting point is 00:14:35 Super loud. Like the voice of a six-foot-eight. man. Yeah. Yeah. And she, she was just animals were her thing, like from when she was a kid. So she became an animal activist. She started working with fishing game and all that. And then she would take animals away from people who had illegally taken them out of the wild, have them jailed, and she would nurse them back to health. And if they'd been defanged or declawed or something like that, she'd find the most habitable zoo and then put them there. She didn't like those little cage zoos and all that.

Starting point is 00:15:09 But we would, so the transitional time would be in our place. So we had, you know, a lion, we had a bear at one point, we had a chimpanzee for a long time. Oh, really? What was his name? Reggie. Hmm. Reggie. Reggie. There's a story of Reggie where

Starting point is 00:15:25 Reggie used to watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies with my mom. And you know how Arnold would hold the gun here, right? And that was like a, I think, uh, sly-o-yo-y. Sly used to do that, too. Yeah, that was a big thing at that big thing like in the eight was it the 80s and the heavy guns yeah exactly big bullets and then there was a guy who came over and reggie was in his cage he wasn't in the house my mom left

Starting point is 00:15:49 somewhere reggie was in his cage a guy came over to fix a chicken coop reggie like finagled or mcgavered his way out of the cage came over everybody where i'm from has a gun right in their truck right on the window in a rack so he grabbed the gun fucking put one because he had seen it obviously in a movie, put one in the chamber. And the guy... Reggie did? Reggie did.

Starting point is 00:16:15 And then suddenly the guy fixing the chicken coop here's... And he goes, what the fuck is that? And he's laying down and he looks past the chicken coop. And there's Reggie holding the gun at waist side. Yeah. Damn, Reggie was a real one. He was a real one. He was the masculine energy.

Starting point is 00:16:33 Oh, and that's you and him and a... Oh, that's Reggie right there. That's you and him in a dressing up for Halloween. right there boy and that's really him yeah that's him wow where'd you find that picture dude that was just on the internet that's crazy both you guys look nice

Starting point is 00:16:48 man dude that was me at my worst was it yeah when I look at that that was a yeah that was a wacky town look at that what is that that I have on my face do I shave the top from the nose like part way down yeah something's up

Starting point is 00:17:06 it's very it's very It's very like I'm going to be the best looking guy who's going to cross the Atlantic. It looks like 20s. Don't I look like, not in my 20s, like 1920s? Like John Fonte. I'm seeing maybe one of the outsiders. Really? Somewhat, but I'm also seeing very spice trader.

Starting point is 00:17:28 Like aggressive brother of a successful spice trader. Always an aggressive brother. And you finally show up with the freaking coriander that no one's ever heard of. That's good. And you've got the market coriander. That's it. Very good. It was okay.

Starting point is 00:17:44 It was not bad. You'd be a supportive. Yeah. Not bad. I'll agree with. Did it feel? Was your mom like, was it easier for her to care about animals, do you think, or something? Or was she like good at me?

Starting point is 00:17:53 For sure. You're the first person that's ever asked that. For sure. But the human thing wasn't, didn't work for her. And she was a big drinker. So when she would drink, that was, that was her ability to kind of like, you know, my mom didn't just say, hi, how you doing? and she grabbed you by the lapels

Starting point is 00:18:09 and pulled you across the table and planted one on your mouth. That's how she'd say hello. And it was usually from like a 380 pound cowboy. Wow. You know, there's a thing in my book where I said. Oh, dude, beyond beyond. And I miss her and she's not around anymore. She, but she, yeah, there's a thing in my book where she says,

Starting point is 00:18:31 and I know this is not cool to say now, she saw this cowboy and he had a comb in his back pocket and she yells out. It was about eight years old. And she yells out, hey, she has this voice. And she goes, why do you have that comb in your pocket? And he turned around and he said, I'm sorry, ma'am. And she said, that comb, it looks f***-y.

Starting point is 00:18:48 I'm like, why? Like, what's the fucking point? What's the end goal here? Yeah. And then 15 minutes later, you have 10 guys buying my mom drinks. Ah. Always pulled it off somehow. No.

Starting point is 00:19:05 She knew a bunch of truckers and if somebody flipped her off on the road, she'd call truckers on the CB and they'd box them in. Like bro, that happened many times with me in the car. Like I remember, like, hey, breaker one nine, this is a catwoman. I got another flipper. Yes, okay, Jane, we got you, you know? And then the guys would come out of fucking nowhere. There was no 18 wheelers anywhere and then suddenly, box a guy in.

Starting point is 00:19:33 One guy would leave, they'd push them off the side of the road, and then thank you guys. I appreciate it. Love you. You know. Oh my God, dude. She was great. She was great. She was severe, but she was great.

Starting point is 00:19:46 That's a cool word to use. That's interesting. Severe is an interesting word to use. So when you grow up in that, not as a victim, because you said that earlier, you know, not to victimize yourself. You go, that's what it was. And I accept it fully for what it was. I like it because it colored my life late.

Starting point is 00:20:03 later in a way once I've figured out a way to kind of regulate the whole thing. Yeah. But without figuring it out, then you're just spinning. Then you're just fucking going. You're like, I don't know what's gonna happen from Tuesday to Wednesday to Thursday, but here we go. Yeah, dude, it feels like.

Starting point is 00:20:23 Well, that's part of the unmanageability, they say. It's fun until it's not. Until it's not. Yeah. That's it. It's fun until it's not. Yeah, dude. And then you try to get the...

Starting point is 00:20:33 that fun back and then that's when it gets really fucking crazy. Yeah. Then you're like, I know I can figure this out. I know it. I can fucking know it. Yeah, I can do this. Start working out like Neil de Gras-Tyson, like, you know, geometry in your head, trigonometry, astrophysics.

Starting point is 00:20:48 You're drawing shit on the walls. He's drawing shit on the walls. I know I can drink. I can fucking figure it out. You're carrying the one. You're using a calculator at the bar. Like, yeah. One of those big ones that has all the symbols.

Starting point is 00:21:03 Yeah, Team Mobile sidekick or something. Yeah, I went through a spell where I was having a tough time and then I was so thankful to get back on track, man. Yeah, man. It can get scary out there. It gets scary. And then, you know, we said, again, we try to drop this subject. But it's like you look back and you go, like, I see guys that are going through it right now. And then you'll see them like, you know, they get, you know, a month or maybe a couple weeks.

Starting point is 00:21:27 And then they go back out and they try it. And they lose their wives and they lose everything. And they can't see their kids anymore. because of two days out, three days out. Because they had to go get five hookers. Like, what is it about alcohol that makes you want to go get five hookers? I don't know. But whatever's going on in that person's mind that's a hidden little gem in there

Starting point is 00:21:47 that nobody knows about gets unleashed. Yeah. And you go, yeah, it's not going to, that's going to happen every time. Yeah. No matter what, when you eat strawberries, you will break out. Yeah. It's going to happen. No, but if I just eat the right strawberry, nope.

Starting point is 00:22:05 Yeah, but if I just have a strawberry short game. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. That's right. Anyway, were the Cedar Rascots? Was there partying then? Or was that just sort of a surfing club? Oh, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:22:18 Like, was it a gang? It wasn't a gang. Okay. It was definitely not a gang. It was a group of guys. That's what, I mean, didn't you have a group of guys growing up? Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, that's it.

Starting point is 00:22:29 That's what it was. It was just a community. especially in the 80s when you had parents that, you know, were kind of, how did I put it in my book, they were more interested in the sound of their eyes than they were about necessarily parenting. You know, they all had their drinks and their cocaine and their this and their parties and all that kind of stuff. So we relied on each other. And it was a great reliance. It was amazing, but it was the beginning of punk rock.

Starting point is 00:22:52 So the guys that my best friend growing up, Jason Sears, had a band called Rich Kids on LSD, RKL.KL. and that became a big band. Rich kids on LSD. On LSD. And they've influenced, like, I talked to Eddie Vedder about it. He said, well, no fucking way. You know Jason Sears.

Starting point is 00:23:10 We were hugely influenced by that. I mean, there's a ton of bands that were influenced. And this is like the greatest band that never got the notoriety that any of these other bands got. But Jason was my best friend. Oh, wow. So all those guys, whether it was punk rock

Starting point is 00:23:27 and whether it was surfing or that was the beach and, you know, it was, it was a group of guys that you could rely on that were a fucking great group of guys. I mean, great, dude. Talk about colorful. So you're going colorful from that, but then she's busy now. And we got color this, and if you look at DeHooeyer, like braboys, like I said,

Starting point is 00:23:47 but then it starts to self-destruct. Then it starts to not work anymore. Super fun for a while. Then we started not going to school, and then you get into, you know, the heroin that came in in the 90s, and suddenly these guys just started dying left and right, you know. Some of your friends up there? Most of them.

Starting point is 00:24:07 Wow. There's a couple of guys that like when I talk about this, they're like, you know, we're all not dead, dude. By the way, we all didn't die. Some of us are still okay. Chris Rest. Some of us are still treading water over there. Yeah. The rats, basically.

Starting point is 00:24:22 The rat. That's it. I love that you said that. I love that you said that. Well, they're fascinating, man. They're fascinating animals. I mean, they're, and they're kind of, I don't know if reviled is the word,

Starting point is 00:24:33 but they're like, I don't know, they're always kind of looked down upon or looked at like this. Rats are? Yeah, or looked at like this outsider thing. Yeah. You know? I'm gonna look for this picture for a second.

Starting point is 00:24:46 And they feel, yeah, a rat, it's like their skin, it's like, they crawl and their skin crawls, you know? It's like a, it's like. Yeah, but why is it always like, Cito Rats obviously has some connotation where it's like, this is the, this is the shit of the shit. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:03 But it's Cedar Rat sounds punk though. It sounds good. It sounds dope. Yeah. It does sound good. I agree. It's great. And so now it's an actual, it's a brand.

Starting point is 00:25:10 Those guys are still, I mean, the guys are still around, like everybody's older now. Everybody's in their late 50s and early 60s. Yeah. And, and, but then you have, it was purely out of reaction of being sick of hearing the stories, you know, it's like, you're like, okay. These guys are sober now. People have gotten sober. It's good.

Starting point is 00:25:31 There's still Sito rats. It's still scrappy. It's still punk. But it's just not as self-destructive as it was. But I went to a wedding recently. I officiated a wedding for a friend of mine whose dad was a Mesa rat, which was up the hill. And old gang member, gnarly guy. Like, Santa Barbara was way gnarlier than anybody could have imagined, right?

Starting point is 00:25:52 Back then, you know, you can't imagine it now. Yeah, no, you can't. Ever. And so I was and this girl came up to me And it was it was like I've seen I've seen enough recovery now Where I'm not used to it anymore And this girl came up to me she's like hey man I knew Damon dude

Starting point is 00:26:11 I was like oh fuck who's that She was like hey man like do you remember Like we were 15 bro and I think you touched my tits At some point and I was like oh fuck This is why I don't want to talk about it anymore This chip was super gnarly And she kept talking about One of my best friends was found on the bathroom

Starting point is 00:26:33 He died He had OD'd eat and died And she was like Damon man What the fuck? Can you believe it man? And the smell of vodka bro The smell of whatever it was that she was having But that's what I wanted to try and shift Yeah kind of refurbish it

Starting point is 00:26:52 Refurbish it Perfect word Because it also deserves a bit of refining because at a certain point, like something's like tough and rugged and has it it's period like that. But at a certain point, it's put in so much work to be that. Yeah. That it almost deserves someone to come along.

Starting point is 00:27:08 I don't want to say like a jeweler of source, but an appreciator. Yeah. And come along and say, you know what this deserves to kind of be refurbished in just enough of a way where it can be revered. We like the foundation. We respect the foundation. It's like we bought a house in Santa Barbara. It was Joe Walsh's old house.

Starting point is 00:27:24 Joe Walsh from Frickin' Unsaught Mysteries? No. No, no, dude, what? Who am I thinking of? Joe Walsh from the Eagles. You're thinking of the guy that... Who is he thinking of? Yeah, that Joe Walsh.

Starting point is 00:27:37 Oh, yeah, Joe Walsh. Joe Walsh, one of the greatest guitarists of all time. And we didn't change the house it out. I'm thinking of John Walsh. No, you're thinking of John Walsh. I remember him. What was the show that he had? America's Most Wanted.

Starting point is 00:27:48 That was it. America's Most Wanted. I used to watch that show. Oh, it was a good show. That was a good show. You bought Joe Walsh's old house? Old house and it was so ratty and fucked up and it like didn't have a foundation

Starting point is 00:28:01 and half of it and all that but we didn't change anything we just updated it. Nice. And it's like ranchy and cool and bitching looking there's rocks all over the place. Same concept.

Starting point is 00:28:13 Yeah. Same concept because you just could see like I don't want to be defined in one way. I don't want to be like I am a sito rat you know fuck you. You know, throw a rock at your head. It's what we do. You know, you're like, that's just dumb.

Starting point is 00:28:29 You're 60, bro. We're throwing rocks at people's head. So even like, I know you had Neil deGrasse Tyson on, and I did Colbert's penultimate show, and Colbert and I became super close. Is he a me guy? He is the coolest, like literally I get emotional talking about it. He is the coolest, most caring motherfucker I am.

Starting point is 00:28:52 know. Wow. Like amazing, an amazing human being. I'd like to meet him. He's really cool, man. You should have him on the show now that he's got nothing to do. Oh, did he lose his job? Well, no, yeah, he got fired. Oh, that was it. They canceled the show. That's why I said penultimate show, the show before his last show. Oh, the penultimate. Pennultimate show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just say the show before the last one. Okay, dude, look. I just saw that shaming look. I'm like, why you gotta do that to me on my own fucking show, dude, bitch? No, dude, we fucking, they knew when you said it, I didn't know.

Starting point is 00:29:30 They knew when you said it, I didn't know. You should put it up on the thing. That's what you should have done, is put it up on the thing. We do vocabulary at the end of the year. We do a big vocabulary episode. Do you really? We're going to start this year. We're nine years late on it.

Starting point is 00:29:46 Penultimate means second to last or immediately preceding the final one in a series or sequence. Perfectly used. The penultimate. Perfectly placed. Very well. Penultimate. That's good stuff. On October 16th, the King returns.

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Starting point is 00:33:12 Dude, my mom would keep a dictionary in a house. It was like the one thing like our fucking, it would be the most. miserable existence ever. Right. But every now and then you had to go look up a word. Oh, yeah. That was your education. Oh, dude. It was crazy. I was doing my job as a parent. The fucking apartment was sinking. Someone had stolen our balcony again. Everything was just a fucking nightmare. Like you wouldn't even go to sleep at night because

Starting point is 00:33:35 you were too busy crying and fucking. Oh, that's awful. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. You were either wetting the bed or crying, but there was always some liquid that it was leaving your body because it didn't want to be involved anymore. Oh God, it went it out. It's like, I want it out of the prison. It's like you have to stay. I don't, motherfucker. Yeah, people stole our balcony.

Starting point is 00:33:55 Look, we talk about this a lot, but there it is. People would- Holy shit. People would steal our balcony. No, no, no, but did somebody come in and actually steal, like, pull off your balcony? Yeah, they did. What are you freaking mean? That's what it means.

Starting point is 00:34:09 Well, I know, but I thought maybe you were putting a new one. No, no, no, no. And then you made it look like somebody. stole it. Somebody actually came in and stole your balcony. Yeah, many times, dude. And so it was just, yeah, because people would steal the wood and use it for stuff down the street. So you'd have to fucking then pull up and somebody one time built a fucking baby crib out of it. And that's the worst. You're like, we want it back and the fucking babysitting. Baby sitting. Oh, dude. You can't steal it from the baby now. Did you actually see a baby crib made out of your wood knowing it was your wood?

Starting point is 00:34:40 100%. That's fucking crazy. That's the coolest shit ever heard. People would steal it all the time because it was good wood. Yeah, well, obviously, because it was new wood because you had to keep replacing it. But this part of the apartment was sinking all the time. And so we'd be at dinner and like, it was just a nightmare. And mom would like, it would be absolutely miserable with mom. We'd be like, I'm going to go lay out in the yard. And it was just like everything was just a fucking nightmare. Louisiana is tough, man. My assistant who loves you, by the way, is absolutely in love with you. Erica. Shout out to Eric. Oh, I'm glad that it went Erica. I thought it was going to stop at the sea. No, Eric. Eric loves you. My assistant.

Starting point is 00:35:14 Eric, my assistant Bob loves you. No, Erica loves you, but she's from Louisiana. Oh, nice. She's tough. She lives in Atlanta, but she's tough. And I went to jail in Louisiana. Louisiana's tough. And what were the charges?

Starting point is 00:35:35 I don't know. Drunken fighting. No. Oh, obstruct, no. it was what do you get in the way of something that the cops are doing what do they call it

Starting point is 00:35:49 oh yeah there you go Josh Roland and Tiger Woods went to jail together that's not Tiger Woods bro what's the matter with you I didn't know I figure you hang out with fancy people sometimes that's you

Starting point is 00:36:04 even scroll up let me see Josh Boland Jeffrey Wright sorry Shreeporter arrested two actors and several crew several crew members of all with the latest movie in Hollywood South. W. The star of Oliver Stone's film W early this morning.

Starting point is 00:36:20 At least they put the star of it. Thank God, right? At least I'm worth something other than just a mugshot. Did you get arrested? Was this a frequent thing? Yeah, fairly. Was it? Did you feel like you had to get, or like,

Starting point is 00:36:34 if you go parties, it feel like you have to get it? Because I never had that kind of stuff really. No, I know you didn't. Because you didn't have the face for it. Yeah. Yeah. Too nice of a face. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:43 Oh, wow. I just had a face you wanted to arrest. Oh, did it? Yeah, I think so. I think so. No, I don't feel like I did that. No, that was more my mom coming out. My mom would get arrested, too.

Starting point is 00:36:55 Oh, really? Yeah, but she'd usually get out of it. Yeah. Like, there's a story about my mom where she got pulled over, and the guy was like not talking to her really, and she always sped. She always went 100 miles an hour. That was the number she loved.

Starting point is 00:37:08 It was 100. So she was 100 miles an hour and get pulled over. And this guy's giving her a ticket. She took the ticket. Like they used to have those, or he's a motorcycle cop. So they had that whatever, that leather thing with the ticket inside and handed it to her. And she took it. And she threw it out in the middle of the freeway.

Starting point is 00:37:27 And then he stopped traffic, went out, picked it up, came back, handed it to her again. And she liked that. She liked that kind of like silent, strong type. And they became really close friends. He was over at the house all the time. So where one would have gone to jail Mucho, she got, she would have two, but she just was so charming she got out of it.

Starting point is 00:37:50 It makes me realize there's something, some women like that thing of like. That's what I mean. I never realized that until recently. Some girls like it when it's just like, they love it. Fuck you. Fuck you.

Starting point is 00:38:03 I think that's coming around too. I mean, this is going to get me in trouble, but I think there's something that's like, Things have been so sketch and scary and paralyzed that I'm starting to see that kind of come back. Oh, we're getting out of the wheelchair, brother. You feel me? We're getting out of the wheelchair. Fuck as Stella got her legs back, dude.

Starting point is 00:38:27 We got this shit, man. Yeah. You had fame at a young age. Like, how do you go from the CETO rats kind of energy, right? How do you go, we don't want to talk about it? No, I don't know. Because how do you go from that to becoming like a... No, I think it's fascinating.

Starting point is 00:38:47 Because when I look at pictures of like me and the Goonies, which never should have happened. Because I had missed 36 out of 56 days of school. I got in a fight with my mom. She kicked me out of the house in Santa Barbara. I went to go live on the couch with my dad. And he was in an apartment with his girlfriend in L.A. So it was like me going, I got to get my shit together.

Starting point is 00:39:06 What do I do? My dad's an actor. maybe I'll try that. Maybe I'll do that in martial arts. You always got to get into martial arts when you're getting your shit together. Everybody. Every kid.

Starting point is 00:39:16 You know what I mean? That's fistfoot way. That's what the movie's about, I think. That's it. That's it. And then so, yeah, I tried to get my shit together and I went on auditions. I went on so many auditions, dude.

Starting point is 00:39:27 And I heard so many people say, basically versions of you suck. Like, definitely don't do this. Don't pursue this. Like the martial arts thing sounds pretty good. good for you. What were you good? Were you, were you, were you, what? Were you good at auditioning? Auditioning is hard. No, I just said. I was horrible at it. Bro, I was horrible. I was so bad at my job, dude. You just said it. Not only was I horrible then, but I was always horrible

Starting point is 00:39:57 at it. And there was a girl, and I've said this many times, but Merrill Poster, who was third in charge at Miramax said when she, when that thing was still going on, she said, the one, the worst, she said it publicly, the worst auditioners we ever saw, we ever experienced in our kind of history at Miramax were Benicio del Toro and Josh Brolin. Let's go. So there's some positive in that somewhere. Yeah, well, there's some thing. Or you look at Benicio and you go, he's great. Yeah. And there's some way that obviously that that doesn't define everything. Because yeah, I think like, that auditioning is so hard. Dude, one time I went in, this is a frickin' move. It's embarrassing story. I stayed up watching Shirley Temple movie, right?

Starting point is 00:40:42 And I went in an audition and they're like, if to sing something and I can't sing it all, right? I can sing. I mean, I can do Christmas carols and maybe a couple of mild stuff or maybe some early bush. Guns and roses. Yeah, I can do some guns and roses, but that's imitations, but it's like I can't really sing.

Starting point is 00:41:03 So I sang a song of Shirley Temple right in this fucking audition room. And I think they're like... Really? Yeah. Like you chose it? Yeah. They were like, can you sing?

Starting point is 00:41:13 And you go, actually, I prepared a Shirley Temple song. Yeah. And I didn't know what else to do because it was more like a, like a poet. It's almost like reading a poem or singing like Christmas. It didn't feel like real singing or something, you know? And I remember at first I started and it was not going good. And I was like, can you guys open the window? Because I was just so fucking scared.

Starting point is 00:41:35 So they try to open this window And it didn't open It was like one of those businesses Where they just want you to Yeah, be in pain in there They're over there looking at the fucking thing And they already know I have no chance at this thing Right, right?

Starting point is 00:41:49 And then I was like And so then I did it again And I just like God, I remember going home And be like, I just can't fucking live like this man It's horrible There's no worse feeling when I know people audition even today And I'm like I wouldn't wish that on my worst

Starting point is 00:42:05 enemy. Yeah. I just, I mean, and you think it's something like, so we'll go back, but like I, so after the Goonies, I didn't really, there was flirting with disaster in the middle. There was a movie that I did that I was really lucky to get. And the only reason I got it is because David O. Russell demanded that I was the guy. But Miramack said, no, he's a guy who should have hit and didn't. So I spent 22 years kind of in the ethers after the Goonies, right? Because Goonies, that book, that was one of the the biggest, at the time, was it one of the biggest things that ever happened? Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:42:39 You mean to me or just period? I think just period. Just period. Was it? It was. Yeah, because I remember like, when did Goonies come out? Was it 80, 85. Right.

Starting point is 00:42:49 I remember, of course, watching it when I was a kid. But sometimes when you're a young kid, you're not exactly the short, if something came out four years ago or it just came out. But, yeah, it was one of the craziest. It was like, everybody impersonated everything and everything was related to it. And like, you have like, yeah, it was Halloween costumes and everything. So it was one of the biggest things that happened. So at that time, were you drinking and partying at that time?

Starting point is 00:43:12 Yeah, bro. That's what that's the thing. No, no, no. I'm not saying that like a pot. But bring up that last picture that you just, that you just had. Like, I look at that. And then I think I'm lying. Do you know how, like, if you look back at your stories and all that kind of stuff,

Starting point is 00:43:26 and you're talking about your mom and you're talking about how they stole your balcony and all that kind of stuff. And then you think, am I lying? did I make a bunch of shit up? Because when I look at that, dude, I go, you look pretty healthy and young and pretty innocent and naive. Oh, like are the stories in your head not real?

Starting point is 00:43:44 Not real. Because that guy, I don't see what I know was the trajectory from eight to that. I see. It's super gnarly. You know, I'm not going to say it on here, but the shit that I was doing before that moment was, I should have,

Starting point is 00:44:04 been here already. Really? Oh yeah. For sure. You were partying pretty hard? Super hard. Like some of those guys had already died at that point. So anyway, then you get this.

Starting point is 00:44:15 Then you go out and you'd be with your dad and then you go on the 350 auditions and people are saying, you know, it's not for you. And then you get a role and it's that role. And you show up and you've never done it. And you don't know what you're doing. So that was one of your first roles, Goonies? The first role. No way, dude.

Starting point is 00:44:32 Sorry, I didn't know this. first time ever in front of a camera. I ruined the first day of shooting because I couldn't stop laughing. Wow. Couldn't stop ruining the whole fucking thing. Because you were laughing. Is it all seem ridiculous? No, it was just like nerves. Like nerves coming out sideways and shit. Action. You know, it's just fucking it all up. And I remember Spielberg coming up and saying, we need to, we need to get through this. You need to just take a breath. And let's just get through this. I'm like, oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay, good. But then, yeah, and then I did thrashing after that, which became like one of the worst movies I ever did to me at that time.

Starting point is 00:45:12 Thrashing? Yeah, it was a skateboarding movie. Oh. Well, that makes sense, though. There you go. Like, look at that quintessential 80s movie. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:23 You look like Will Ferrell in that. I do. Really? This is like Will Ferrell and a young David Spade, I feel like, in this picture right here, dude. My assistant Bob loves you. I mean, there's a thing. It's like, it's a guy's story. That's great.

Starting point is 00:45:40 You know, it actually, that, that picture looks like Val Kilmer really a little bit. It kind of does, doesn't it? What? Me or her? You do. Oh, yeah, good. Different stages of Val. Different stages of Val.

Starting point is 00:45:50 That was Val later. Thrashing. It was just Val finding himself or whatever. So that kind of became like Tony Hawk was in that. Were you ever skater? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tony Hawk was in that and like Tony Alva and all the.

Starting point is 00:46:03 these famous skaters, Christian Hissoy, and this became way later like a cult film. Got it. That's what I was going to ask if it became like a cult classic kind of. But I saw it and I was so bad in it, I was like, like my acting is actually like actively hurting people at this point. Like go figure this out. But what do you, were you, did you think that it was because you'd had a better director the first time?

Starting point is 00:46:25 No. Or could you even ever do it and you just didn't realize it maybe? But you're asking questions that I couldn't even because I hadn't been around. It's not like I grew up in the business. I grew up in L.A. And so I didn't know. All I know is I sounded stupid to me. And then I had no voice control, which I realized later as part of it.

Starting point is 00:46:46 And you're like, Chrissy, I love you. And you're like, ew. You know, and then I went to New York and I studied and I did all that stuff. And then it kind of changed it. I met this guy, Anthony Zerbie. I started doing a bunch of theater. I started doing all that stuff's boring. but yeah i took it seriously

Starting point is 00:47:05 so i had 22 years of taking it seriously because nobody was interested until really i did no country yeah and then no country kind of changed shit kind of yeah definitely good for you dude yeah thanks man sticking it out and still believe in yourself i bet

Starting point is 00:47:26 were there times where you like did you even did you get another job ever like was there time where you're like i can't well i guess you had to get a job at point something else or were you were you able to just financially take care of yourself yeah i did i was a landscaper for a year oh fuck yeah and then i was when i was 30 i was uh i traded full time i learned how to trade from a guy named brett markinson trading what cards stocks oh stocks yeah stocks wow and i was really good at you were a stock trader for almost five years full time were you on the floor with the tickets and stuff no bro oh that would have been great Yeah, you know, no, I was at home with one, two, three screens and four tabs per screen.

Starting point is 00:48:09 Oh, you were day trading. I was day trading. I was swing trading and day trading. What's the most that you ever made like in a, in a... The most, I made more money. I'd put it this way. I made more money in those four years, really. It was five years, but within four years, then I had made in 20 years acting.

Starting point is 00:48:27 Damn. But I didn't really make hardly anything acting. You know, there was, I didn't, because I wasn't really working. I mean, think about it, dude, and it's not, and I don't mean to insult anybody out there, but if you think about like, and I think it's okay to say this, no country I made, how much you think I made from no country? I had been doing it already for 22 years, 20, whatever years. How much you think they paid you to be in no country for old men?

Starting point is 00:48:50 You know a little bit about somebody being paid or not being paid. Yeah. How much do you think they paid you? Up front, I bet that they paid you $200,000. That was pretty good. That was a good guess. 100. 100.

Starting point is 00:49:04 So I cleared, what, 30? Yeah. That's not considered a great year. No, uh. You know what I mean? Yeah. 30. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:12 And then I did American gangster after that because I auditioned while I was doing no country. I sent in a tape and my son, who was 16 at the time, played the Denzel part. Mm. We sent in that tape. That's pretty cool. That's the last audition I ever did. And that was it. I think so.

Starting point is 00:49:29 I think so. I think maybe there was one other. offer only. I love that. You have to celebrate that stuff. It's cool. Oh, fuck. That's cool.

Starting point is 00:49:36 That's so cool, dude. Especially the fucking hurting people with my auditions. But yeah. Anyway, that's that. And so the day trading went good. The day trading, I loved, man. But you had to give it up to act. But it was day, but that's the kind of like to go back and like say how you're defined

Starting point is 00:49:52 in your way and like, oh, this is how I'm defined or it's fighting or it's drinking and all that kind of shit. And then you start, things start to get revealed. that you're good at. You're like, wow, I could have developed this shit when I was young, given the opportunity, or maybe given somebody to direct you, a mentor or a parent or something like that.

Starting point is 00:50:12 Like, you're actually good at the shit. You're not a total dumb shit. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, there was nothing. There was nothing to suggest that there was anything other than a hollow shell of alcohol. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:25 Oh, dude, sometimes it's like, if I had somebody just to help lay down some banks. That's it. But instead I spend my whole life just like literally just trying to keep the water in with my fucking hands, it feels like. That's it. And it just feels impossible sometimes. But not all the time. And over time it gets better.

Starting point is 00:50:41 Yeah. When did you start to get sober? When was that like journey for you? Quickly, I'll tell you. 19. I'd gotten busted for something and I had to get out of it. At 19? At 19.

Starting point is 00:50:53 And I was doing a little, I did a little bit of, I did jail time. But then I stayed sober for three and a half. years, then I went back out very actively, like consciously. And then I, like, I'm going to go out there. Oh, yeah. Like I'm, I missed that. Yeah, I'm going to do that. A crazy heart kind of. Yeah. Like young. Young. I was what, 23 when I went back out, 22, 23? What were we all drinking out there then? I don't know what we were going to look at you all into it. Oh. Just get me. You're like, what would you all drinking? Did it taste good? What were we drinking the back then? I was drinking, what was it? I was drinking white Russians. Why was I

Starting point is 00:51:30 drinking white Russians. Wow. But it's for a reason. It's like why. Are we trying to be fancy? No. It wasn't fancy. It was for, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:51:39 Yeah, maybe that was it. When did it come out? When did that movie come out? Maybe that was it. And then I end up working with him twice. So there you go. When? 98.

Starting point is 00:51:51 No, it wasn't that. But it could have been. But it could have been. There was some unknown connection. We went to Santa Barbara and got to hang out with Jeff one day. No way. Yeah. Oh, he's the best.

Starting point is 00:52:03 He was only two months ago, dude. It was one of, bro, one of the coolest times in my life. He has a freaking chat GPT friend. No. Yeah, dude. Did he talks with? Yeah, Gary's like, Gary, what? Of course he does.

Starting point is 00:52:16 Bro, he had me talking to Gary. Really? The dude is on shab. So what does he do? Ask him questions? He asked him like therapy questions. All kinds of stuff. He's like, tell him about our wife, Gary.

Starting point is 00:52:26 And he just, he had me locked in, bro. It was just me. him talking to his computer. Then he made his computer make up a song about us hanging out. It was crazy. That's great. But it was so cool. But yeah, Bridges was nice.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Dude, you know what he? He sent me a nice picture that he drew for me. He sent me a nice picture that he drew for me. Yeah, of course. And he mailed it and he said, we can get some soup and I come back. Yeah. Soup. Just randomly.

Starting point is 00:52:49 Yeah. He could, because he can say whatever he wants and it works. Yeah, he can. Even with that voice. Even I was making fun of my voices, you know, in thrashing. But he, like, somehow. made that voice cool. Hey man.

Starting point is 00:53:03 How's it going, man? Yeah. It's good to see you, man. Yeah. You're like, how did you make that cool? That's so not cool. I love him, man. I worked with him twice.

Starting point is 00:53:16 Oh, it's so cool. He's the fucking best. Bro, that was one of the coolest days ever. Just to sit around with him and enjoy some moments, talk about some different stuff. Yeah. Talked about like relationships and how he... Buddhism. Yeah, a little bit of Buddhism.

Starting point is 00:53:28 He had his buddy who had written a book. That was pretty cool. And then he talked about, he was in recovery too. He'd been in some recovery rooms. Yeah. So we talked about that a little bit. And we talked a lot about Crazy Heart, man. Yeah, did you?

Starting point is 00:53:39 Yeah. Because you love that movie. I love it. I do too. God. Do you know the guy who made the movie? Who's the director? Oh man, he's sober dude.

Starting point is 00:53:48 Which is okay to say, I think. Scott. Scott Cooper. Jesus, man. Sorry, Scott. No, dude. Bro, that song in there, the weary kind? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:58 It's just so good. everything about it. And who, wasn't Colin Farrell in it? Colin Farrell came up at the end and he sang a song at the end. No. Yeah, dude. Was Colin Farrell in that movie?

Starting point is 00:54:10 Yeah. You're our chat, GPT. Jeff, chat, what was his name? Gary? Gary to, yeah. Yeah, dude. Yes. Gary, man. I got it. E, Gary.

Starting point is 00:54:23 Paul Herman, Peewee Herman. Peewee Herman? Peewee Herman? Pewee Herman. Paul Herman. Herman. No. Paul Herman was in this

Starting point is 00:54:31 Scorsese movies. Paul Herman, Paul Herman was the boyfriend of my first wife when I met her before we had our first two kids. Dear God. Just keep going through the internet and I have some connection with every single thing that you bring out. Oh, dang, man. Yeah, dude. Paul Herman. Paul Herman was great. Robert Duvall. He played the bartender in it. That helped him get sober. That's right. Dude, that movie was so... It was so good, man. And then he sees... And he was so good. But you know what? I remember seeing Jeff, I hope Jeff is okay with me saying this. I remember seeing Jeff on the circuit on like the promotional circuit during that time that he did Crazy Heart.

Starting point is 00:55:10 And he looked, I go, hey, how you doing? He goes, I miss being an underdog. Oh. Because he was just going from one thing to the other to the other. And it was like, fuck. That whole thing. You get ahead of your own skis. I would imagine because you do something that people love or that you're lauded for.

Starting point is 00:55:29 but I've never had to really deal with it. Really? It seems like it's kind of getting to that space. I don't know. You don't think? I don't know. I don't understand my career at all. Did you ever feel like you knew, though?

Starting point is 00:55:43 No. Like really? No. Because I could see Jeff gets like so busy. You kind of don't even know. And then like whatever it was it made you feel special. It feels like you've outsourced it, but you've used it a lot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:56 And even if you use your gifts a lot, I feel like, they there's something about they they lose their allure to you i think yeah yeah yeah yeah i know exactly what you mean and so but that also on top of that like i saw at sanamar rabble i saw jeff that's the last place i saw jeff and we're talking and we were at dylan and we both know dylan separately at bob dillon yeah and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and we were both talking about imagine what it's like being Dylan. Imagine the level of fame that you can't go anywhere without people going, that's a genius.

Starting point is 00:56:37 Like that's Bob fucking Dylan who's defined eras in the world. Yeah. While Jeff and I are having a talk and maybe somebody's coming up going, I love Lubowski dude. Fuck yeah. Or people go, no country. What was up for that dude's hair cut? Yeah, bro.

Starting point is 00:56:58 You know? And why is Jeff fans are Mexican, it seems like a dude. I don't know. Because we're in Santa Barbara. Oh, that's a good point. Bro, crazy horror, bro. Oh, I loved you in milk.

Starting point is 00:57:09 E leche. Bro, you fucking played Harvey Milk, didn't you? No, I didn't. Bro, you were Harvey Milk? I wasn't Harvey Milk? Sean Penn, wasn't it? It was Sean Penn. He's pretty incredible.

Starting point is 00:57:23 Dude, he was amazing. He's amazing in that movie. I saw that movie recently. Did you ever get to meet the guy that played my red foot or whatever? You know what I'm talking about? My left foot? My left foot. My red foot, I like.

Starting point is 00:57:33 My red foot. That's the guy that got that rash. Oh, yeah. It was the guy, it was either him or was that... No, Daniel DeLewis? Yes, dude. God, I love talking to you, man. You know nothing about the movie industry.

Starting point is 00:57:45 Yeah. That's amazing. I don't know a ton about it, man. No, no, no, no. I'm not blaming you. I'm saying, it's amazing. It's amazing because you're like you're talking about, life shit.

Starting point is 00:57:56 Yeah. I'm not talking about like, oh, you're here and we're going to talk about the movie industry all the time. It's like, when you had Neil de Gras Tyson in here,

Starting point is 00:58:03 how was that? It was cool because I think some people like have thoughts, like he has different views. Like, I think he thinks men can be pregnant and stuff like that or whatever. But I don't care. Sometimes I don't care about like things like that.

Starting point is 00:58:16 Like, I want to talk to him about space. Yeah. And I want to hear his voice. You want to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so sometimes for me, it's like sitting and just listening

Starting point is 00:58:22 to his voice for a couple of hours. And, And just seeing if I can like, I don't know, just have some nice thoughts with them or something. Yeah. Sometimes it's just about like spending time. Yeah. So that was pretty cool. And he's like, did you know, you know?

Starting point is 00:58:35 And he just fucking, he kind of seems like something like, I don't even know what he seems. He's bigger than life. He seems like father times like thick son. Father times thick son. Yeah. That's exactly. He's like a father time at a thick son that went and did his own shit, like his space shit. And his, he's, his dad's like, bro, don't be doing all the space shit.

Starting point is 00:58:54 and Neil's like, I'm doing the space shit. I'm doing it. I don't give a fuck what you say. I'm going out of my own. Yeah. And he also, dude, and he also, like, he went out, but with like a hat, like, he just has this, like, kind of timeless. I can't even explain it.

Starting point is 00:59:08 Yeah, no. That's what I got when I met him. He came up to me and he was like, hey, man, I'm a big fan. I just wanted to say hello. And I was like, oh, nice to meet you. It's great. And then I'm talking to him. I don't recognize him.

Starting point is 00:59:18 And then I look down and he's got, like, one of those, like, Aloha shirts, but it's got planets all over it and, like, shooting stars. And I'm thinking, what a weird shirt to wear. And I was like, no, fucking way. And then it hit me. You're a yoke across Tyson. Yeah. Your father time.

Starting point is 00:59:32 Yeah. But the thick cousin of father time. Yeah, dude. Fuck yeah. It's so nice. Yeah, dude. You know those items in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? I'd do it.

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Starting point is 01:00:52 And when Quince asks, Where you heard about them, let them know it was this past weekend. It's the best way to support the show. Thanks. You know, life adds up fast. A trip here, a dinner here. Maybe you and your lady split up a little cupcake or something or a lollipop or something. Maybe you went to the Renaissance Fair a few times.

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Starting point is 01:02:26 And that's why I asked because things are being revealed now. Forget about like sobriety shit. As an older person, things are being revealed now that I'm more excited about than I've ever been. Like quantum physics with him. And then I started like reading his shit. And then I started reading, you know, what's his name? Carlo Revello, a Revelli. You know, and that Carla Raveli was, was, you know, wrote this book on, you know, the basics of quantum physics.

Starting point is 01:02:57 And is that him? Yeah. Yeah, man. And these guys are fucking genius. Yeah. And it's so fun following this like labyrinth of all this new stuff and being turned on to all the shit that I'm like, this is amazing. This is like I feel like I'm a, this should have happened when I was in school, but it didn't. But it's happening now.

Starting point is 01:03:18 and it's happening now. It's so cool. Do you feel like you've had two different lives of life before, sobriety, and after? Like, is there something that that did for you that made life even more interesting? No, I feel like there's been like 28 of them. Wow. So there wasn't one or two or like one, and then this happened and then it all changed. Yeah. No.

Starting point is 01:03:37 And maybe because I'd been sober a few times. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it has to do. I think part of it has to do with sobriety, but part of it has to do with people I met. Part of it has to do with setting. Like, I just literally landed from two. Arizona and I went Tucson Arizona for three days and I saw a guy that I've known for 38 years

Starting point is 01:03:53 who I met on the set of some series that I was doing out in the middle of nowhere 45 minutes from Tucson that nobody ever saw but I met this fireman out there and he's still one of my best friends. Wow. So I just went out there and stayed in his little guest room and we, you know, and it's just cool shit and Tucson is fucking weird. Dude, it's weird. I used to live there. What? I freaking lived at Colt near Colvin Pantano. What? Yeah, dude. I used to a freaking, wait, did you go to college there? I went to University of Arizona for one semester. And I went to high school there

Starting point is 01:04:25 for one semester too, dude. And they would always have like all the kids, like predominantly Mexican kids at my school. And that means all Mexican kids. Yeah. That was me too. And dude, it was me, bro. And I took fucking Spanish class, bro. And they would fucking, they were fucking over on the side,

Starting point is 01:04:41 fucking doing like, I think some of them were like even painting the classroom and shit. Like people were fucking worth, like they got in jobs with the school. for that hour. Or they were all hanging out and I was the only one talking with the teacher. It was like me and the teacher just learning Spanish and they all knew it

Starting point is 01:04:55 but it was a class of dad. And all the kids would fight in a car wash after like you want a box safe? And they were fucking fight in the car wash after. That's why you know how to do the accent. And bro, the best was the guy like the short guy. But when he would talk, he would have to get taller like so he would look

Starting point is 01:05:11 fucking straight up bro. He'd be like, dog. You ever see La Sleepy? Sleepy. She dances. Bring up Les Sleepy. Never seen her. Oh, La Dormisa.

Starting point is 01:05:22 There's La Sleepy. Oh, bro. I love La Sleepy. Dang. She's cool. Shit. She will dance on Instagram for you. Look at it.

Starting point is 01:05:32 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, anyway, yeah, Tucson. Yeah. Tucson is magical. My school, just to say it, Santa Barbara High, three and a half thousand people, 80% Mexican. Really? Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:46 80% Mexican. And it wasn't like a thing and it's not a thing, but it was definitely like when I showed up at school, it's like, what's you looking at, way boy? Yeah. It was like, oh, man, it's all good. What's that mean? Waible.

Starting point is 01:05:57 Yeah, that's what they were saying. What's up? What's up? What's up? Egg. And it would be the blue pants and then the wife beater and then the shirt with the button up here and open all the rest and the vans, the slip on vans.

Starting point is 01:06:14 Yeah, it was cool. What a le. It was fun, bro. I went to Santa Rita. Did you? Yeah, Santa Rita High School. And they would have the alarms would go off. They would have some sort of gang issues all the time.

Starting point is 01:06:25 And so the alarms would have to be to lay down. I remember laying down at lunch and having to eat my cheeseburger just laying there. It wasn't about like earthquakes and shit. It was shootings. It was just like violencia, you know. It was violence. But it was a fucking... You ever see two Mexican chicks fight?

Starting point is 01:06:41 I don't know if I did, but... It's nothing I've ever seen in my life, including Tyson, boxing matches that is that violent ever really oh bro yeah just went at it because they get it done hair pulling punching nails that's what we need that's what we need we need we need that back yeah we need that back do you know dana pretty well yeah i know dana pretty well i do know dana yeah i know dana through motorcycling he loves harleys and i love harleys yeah loves is that one of your hobbies like my thing is i have a group of guys and i go these long pulls 1,200 miles or whatever and then Dana does it with newer bikes,

Starting point is 01:07:19 but he has, you know, his group of guys and he goes out and we talk. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's been real good to me about just, you just welcoming me into that group over there, just letting me be around their group. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:32 And that's cool. I mean, that's been one of the gifts of my life is being associated with, I think, the people there and the getting to see the fighters inspired by a lot of those guys, you know? It's so fascinating. Do you like the fighting? I do.

Starting point is 01:07:45 Yeah, me too. At first I didn't. Me too. When it first happened, it was too much. I was like, this is not going to work. It was crazy, dude. It was the same people that were like breeding dogs and shit would have like a VH. FITDAQ fighting. Yeah, they'd have a VHS tape. The same guy that was like saying, you could fuck my sister, bro, or whatever.

Starting point is 01:08:02 Like that guy would be watching it on the weekend. He'd be like, these people are going to Hades or whatever, you know? Seriously, though. It just wasn't going to work. And then it got more interesting and more interesting. And then it started overwhelming boxing, which was crazy. Oh, the journey of it all has been crazy. But in the beginning, yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:18 I mean, when you saw this, you were like, what the fuck is that? I mean, look at that. What's happening? Is this, is this heavyweight? And what happened to the guy? Did he deflate? It just seems like, I'm trying to think what happened. And look, no gloves?

Starting point is 01:08:33 Bare knuckle. And then now we've come all the way around back, around a bare knuckle. To bear knuckle. With Mike Perry. Yeah. And what a great, what amazing to watch Mike Perry's journey where he, like, he was in UFC beloved by people just for wearing his all. all of his heart on both of his sleeves.

Starting point is 01:08:49 And just like, but couldn't, he would always just go straight at the guy and get hit a million times. But then he created this other outlet for her. And it just like, I don't know. So many great stories. I mean, Nick turned me on,

Starting point is 01:09:00 our producer Nick's the one who kind of turned me on to UFC. And we had Tate Fletcher in and then we had, I know Tate. Yeah, he's a great guy. Tate really well. And then Dustin Poree came on

Starting point is 01:09:10 and then he and I became friends. And then just like David Spade took me to a UFC fight. And then since, And yeah, we've gotten a go. And now they'll let him even work on the ring side and doing like a, um. Like commentating?

Starting point is 01:09:22 Yeah, but it's like a, just a casual commentating. Like, yeah. Just throwing out shit. Yeah, just me watching the fights with like Dean Thomas. So no way. If you ever come, you have to be a guest. We had Anthony Keatis last time. Drew Breeze came and was a guest, dude.

Starting point is 01:09:36 Drew Breeze, who like, like, he came and was a guest. Just like some moments like that gate you came. Rogan was. Just like, none of that matters, but just to be able to sit there with them that we all have this thing in common. It's amazing.

Starting point is 01:09:51 So cool. It's amazing. It's nice to have the through line. That's where I'm saying about the motorcycles. And, you know, it's like you have the through line, man. You have this interest. You have this shared interest. And you're like, this is fucking bitching.

Starting point is 01:10:04 Yeah. And yeah, the UFC stuff is huge for me and always has been. What was the last fight? I haven't been to a fight in a long time. The last fight I went to was when Holly Holmes lost to Misha Tate. Yeah. That was Nate Diaz when Nate Diaz won or lost to Connor McGregor.

Starting point is 01:10:25 Oh, wow. Connor, submission by whom? Oh, so Nate Diaz won. And Holly Holmes lost. That was a long time ago. Yeah, that was a while ago. That was the last fight that I was at. And I saw Joe there and all that.

Starting point is 01:10:39 Oh, yeah. It's just so much fun, dude. It's so much fun. And all the people that Dana has working around him, Craig Borsari, Yeah. Nicole, Amber, just like there's so many people there. And now when I see them, like, I just remember, like, it's family.

Starting point is 01:10:53 Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like family. You have, I do want to make sure that we talk about, you have a new project coming out called Whale Fall. Yes, sir. What are you going to talk about? Well. Have you seen it? No.

Starting point is 01:11:05 I haven't seen it. They won't allow me to watch it. No, I don't. No, I think I knew that. And that's okay. Yeah, Whalefall, Austin Abrams. It's bitching. I mean, it really is.

Starting point is 01:11:16 It is, like a word that I can use that you understand. It's one of these movies. It's, there's a book written by Daniel Krauss, who's become a really close friend, who stayed in our house for a couple weeks, finishing his last novel. He just won the Pulitzer for the novel that he did after this, which is called Angel Down. I read this while I was doing, when I was working with Ridley in Italy on... With Ridley Scott? Yeah, with the dog stars that just came out.

Starting point is 01:11:43 And I was reading this book while I was doing that movie. And I remember getting to the end of the book and I slowed it down, which I hadn't done for a long time and slowed it down because I didn't want it to end. And then it ended and I put the book on my chest and I fucking sobbed. Like, when was the last time I've done that? Of what you mean? Wellfall.

Starting point is 01:12:00 When I read the book. And then I didn't even read the script. I said, I'm in. I'll do it. And, you know, it's not like it's playing the dad of Austin Abrams who goes, the dad dies. Austin Abrams goes out to try to find his remains. his remains, knowing where he went down. He jumped out of a boat, went down.

Starting point is 01:12:19 Don't tell me everything. No, no, no, I won't tell you everything. He gets swallowed by the whale. And then... God. And you're like, how do you do a movie where a dude spends 80% of the story? How do you write a book or do a movie

Starting point is 01:12:31 where the guy spends 80% of the time in a whale? In a whale. And it's fucking really good. Wow. And I'm pretty honest about when I see a movie. I go, yeah. We missed a little bit. Yeah, he said Thrasher was.

Starting point is 01:12:45 bad. Yeah. It came along though. It did. And then I learned not to say shit's bad. Wow. Yeah. Because somebody comes up and says, hey, man, you know, my parents were junkies and this and I watched that movie and I found skateboarding and skateboarding became my skateboarding saved my life. And I go, okay, so I'll never say, you know, hey, were you in thrash? And I go, yeah, that movie sucks. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like, why do you put that on it? That's not their experience. So whale fall doesn't suck. Well, Fall is really good. The directing's really good. The acting, Austin Abrams is amazing.

Starting point is 01:13:20 He was in weapons with me. Bring up a picture of Austin Abrams. Dude, I got to meet freaking Austin Butler not long ago. Have you ever met him? I did Dune with him. You did? I did Dune with him. I did Dune with him.

Starting point is 01:13:31 Yeah. That's him? Yeah, that's him. He looks a little skinny there, but if you look to the left, he looks a little more full-faced. Yeah. He also looks a bit like...

Starting point is 01:13:41 That looks a little like you. Really? No. What about that one? No, he looks like Timothy Shal. You didn't see, like Timothy Shalame? You didn't like Timothy Shalamee, dude. That's what he looked like in that.

Starting point is 01:13:56 Oh, God. And I'm, it's no shade Austin. No shame, Austin. And also, to even look close to Timothy Shalamee is pretty good. Yeah. But that's cool, bro. Timothy's kind of the tip top of it all right now. Timothy's a neat guy.

Starting point is 01:14:08 Yeah, you haven't seen Dune? I haven't seen, oh, I will tell you this. I tried to watch it in the freaking audio. was bad on the television I was watching. Oh, so you can't do that because the audio is like everything in that movie. So, Dune 1, Dune 2, Dune 3. Oh, fuck. Sicario.

Starting point is 01:14:24 Oh, God. Is that with Marlon Brando? No, that's with me and, um, wait, who? I'm gonna be fired, dude. You're not gonna be-you-not-a-do-do. The other worst actor? They put- In-Hare-The other worst actor, yeah. Um, uh, Emily Blunt.

Starting point is 01:14:39 That's a good movie, dude. That's a good movie? Yeah. I'll put it on stuff to consume. a list of things to consume in my... You know, I'm an actor. Yeah. That's what I do.

Starting point is 01:14:48 Sorry, John. What do you do? I heard you were sober. I don't know. Sorry, dude. Some of this stuff... No, it's good. Okay, good.

Starting point is 01:14:59 It's not bad. No. Yeah, I know a lot of stuff. I know you do. Okay. You're smart dude. Thanks, dude. You are.

Starting point is 01:15:07 Oh, there's another one. Thanks for bringing up another one. Only the brave. Only the brave with Miles Teller, dude. And... He's Jeff Bridges. Oh, wow. There's Jeff.

Starting point is 01:15:16 Miles is a good dancer. Miles is a good dancer. Yeah. He is. How do you know that? He just dances to the beat of his own drum. I've seen him at places, him dancing. And sometimes I used to go up and talk to him.

Starting point is 01:15:28 If I saw him, I mean, Miles and I get along well and we're buddies. We'll text and stuff and chat about the fights. Yeah. But now if I see him dance and I just stay and admire it. Yeah. No, I do too. Because you can't dance, right? Not like him.

Starting point is 01:15:39 No, I can't dance either. You can enjoy himself. Yeah. I always had a tough time enjoying myself. Does that make any sense? No, it does. It makes perfect sense because I had the same thing. Like, I look like an idiot right now.

Starting point is 01:15:50 Yeah. And imagine doing it on film. Oh. Where they go, hey, you're going to do this dance. And everybody goes, oh. Too scary. That sucks. Too scary.

Starting point is 01:15:59 Josh looks like a Neanderthal trying to dance. That's not cool. I'm like, no, I can't do it. I can't do it. And then Miles does it. You go, that's how it's done. It can be done. Yeah, he just, and he does his own way.

Starting point is 01:16:11 Yeah. I admire that he's just able to be such an, in a free space. Yeah, he's a good actor too. Yeah, dude, he's good. Really good. He's really good. He's so entertaining. Oh, what about the book made you sob at the end? Was it just the ending or was it something? No, I think it was the father's son relationship because the father and the book is super hard on the son and the son rejects it in a major way. And then what he needs in order to hopefully survive is exactly what the father taught him. Do you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:16:51 So it's not like the father was just being a dick to be a dick. It's just the way that came out that seemed dicky. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So then, and then you realize, oh, the dad actually cared and it actually meant something.

Starting point is 01:17:05 And maybe somehow the father even knew intuitively that he was going to need it. That's crazy. That was cool to me. That's a good writer to me. Like somebody who you're just reading this kind of surface thing and you're like, yeah, there's a really cool story. And then somehow somebody reaches inside you and just fucking grabs your heart and fucking squeezes it. Surprise, motherfucker. Surprise, motherfucker.

Starting point is 01:17:28 I'm not even a doctor. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And your dad was an actor. My dad is an actor. Is your dad, sorry? He's still alive.

Starting point is 01:17:39 Thank God. Yeah. Thank God. He's 80s. six and he's killing it he's doing well well james you have a nice son i'll say that thank you was your dad your dad was famous when you were growing up he he fluctuated man he did a show called uh fuck marcus wellby when i was a kid so we were my parents were super poor and they both come my dad was kind of middle class family my mom was super poor family from texas and then and then he got this

Starting point is 01:18:13 fucking role on TV that became like the friends of that generation. It was a number one TV show for like five years. Really? Yeah. What was it called? Marcus Welby. Yeah, look at that's him. And then he, and then he fluctuated. He did a movie called Amityville horror like maybe 20 years after that or maybe 10 years after that. So he would have money and then not have money and then have money and not have money. And he, you know, like normal actor, man. Yeah. normal creative profession. It's like, you know, you have books that sell and books that don't sell. You have movies that do well.

Starting point is 01:18:49 You have movies that don't do well. So you saw this growing up. Do you think that's why you ended up on bikes and stuff? I think it's part of it. I think it's part of it. Yeah, some of you, but my mom wrote a Harley. He didn't ride a Harley.

Starting point is 01:18:59 My mom wrote a Harley. Fuck yeah. With the monkey, which was probably unsafe. Reggie? Reggie. Reggie wrote on the back. Dude, how could I have a suspended license? How in the fuck did he get?

Starting point is 01:19:11 Right now? How do you get a license? Oh, wait, you have a specific? Yeah. I had one. Did you? Yeah, 17, 18. 16, 17, 17, 18.

Starting point is 01:19:20 You got suspended? Yeah. Yeah. They'll give it back. They don't like to sometimes. They don't like to give it back. They don't. And they shouldn't, but they'll give it back.

Starting point is 01:19:28 Dude, but what about, so if your dad was famous, was it weird, it was fame like this weird thing that you felt like, um. I still feel it, man. I mean, look, if we, but did you feel like you're, like, was your, was it a big thing to your dad or was the acting a big thing? Is that a weird question? Yeah, but it was my mom, like I don't mean to demean my dad, but my mom would call studio heads when my dad didn't get something and say, are you stupid? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:53 Have you seen my husband? Like he's six four, super handsome. Like, why would you use this other guy when you could use him? So they were all talking about my mom. Because my mom, like I said, had no filter. She was everything. That's amazing. So she would just call and just, you know, and they would talk to each other and be like, have you guys?

Starting point is 01:20:12 And a call from this girl, like, oh, yeah, I talked to her last week. And my dad, not all his jobs, but he got some jobs from that, you know what I mean? Yes. But fame was like, I remember my dad doing really well at some point, and he would get really irritated with the attention. With the attention? Yeah, with the attention, with public attention. Some people eat it up, you know?

Starting point is 01:20:36 Do you? I think there was a time where you were excited about it. Yeah. You want people to know who you are. Yeah. And then there's a time, like, I think it got to a point where it's kind of, maybe I don't put scary as the word, but, you know what? I miss, like, I used to, one thing I even, like, used to like about comedy was if it was a surprise to people. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:58 Because when people don't know that you're, that, or people haven't seen you. That's what I mean. Then you can, you have the opportunity to surprise them with something that you say, and that disappears. So then you have to work in a different space with humor. and maybe with anything. Which may be cool because you're having to reinvent your own humor. Yeah. So that's cool because that's creative.

Starting point is 01:21:20 Yeah. And you have to like redesign this whole thing. But at the same time, it's kind of a bummer because everybody knows you. If you do too many freaking podcasts or too many interviews, people know you so well that what could you possibly do on the stage or on the screen that people are like, I had no idea. And I thought you were paraplegia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:21:42 You know what I mean? And you're playing pre-fontaine? Exactly. And dude, I think sometimes you start to like, I don't know. I think there's moments where it's like, I don't, like, you don't even like, like, I don't know if it's like you don't even like yourself that you put out there or something or it's like you want to be something different. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:22:04 Yeah. It's all, I think a lot of it's been kind of interesting. Here's what I do think about it. A lot of times I try not to attach myself to it too much when I do that. it's kind of like then I'm really stuck kind of its am ego space. Yeah. And I try to just be like, okay, this is an interesting experiment that God kind of has me in. I get to see what this is like to have popularity.

Starting point is 01:22:24 Yeah. I get to see what it's like. Yeah, I'll experiment with this. Yes. I'll experiment my reaction to it. I'll experiment with, yeah. See, that's when it's cool. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:32 But it's not like, I don't want it to determine, like there were times when I was struggling with sobriety and I didn't even want to talk about it on the podcast because. Because you were struggling with it. But I'm okay with that part, but I didn't want, this is about alcoholism, I think, but it's like I was afraid that, well, what if people respond to that in some way? And then my alcoholistic mind or whatever starts either relapsing

Starting point is 01:23:00 or doing something like that just to get people to then, like, pay attention. I got it. It was like, I don't want to like. What if I play into this public persona? Yes. So they'll keep liking me or they'll care or I can surprise them in this way. Right. I lived on that, man.

Starting point is 01:23:17 I lived on the stories that I wouldn't even remember. But I lived on because it made me, it materialized me. It made me seen. It was like, fuck, do you know what you did yesterday? I was like, no, what? And they were like, dude. You know what I mean? And then you go, oh, okay, that's who I am.

Starting point is 01:23:38 like me talking about my mom now and you're fascinated. I'm like, I'll create my version of that. Yeah. And then to not do that, you have to create this other thing. And then, you know, like you, you're obviously really good at what you do. And people are like, oh, you're good at that. You're not just good at cocaine. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:56 You're good at that other stuff. Tell me a little bit more about what you're saying because I'm a little confused on it. Yeah. I think that fame, what fame can do is define you in a way. and I don't want to be defined. I don't want to be defined as an alcoholic. I don't want to be defined as famous. I don't want to be defined even as an actor.

Starting point is 01:24:15 Like, I realize it's what I do. I don't want to be defined as anything. As anything. What is that? I want to keep discovering shit. I want to keep learning shit. I want to keep surprising myself. If I decided to quit acting tomorrow

Starting point is 01:24:27 and I decided to become a full-time traitor, if I wanted to be a photographer, I wanted to do this. I want to be allowed to do that. I don't want to be imprisoned by some idea that I've finally been, accepted as this one thing, because that's not my goal, is to be accepted. Do you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:24:44 Yeah, as you're saying, I'm thinking about it. I don't want to be defined. I don't want to be defined. I don't want you to know who I am, because I don't know who I am. Right. But then what happens when you finally know who you are, or you don't care as much how people perceive you,

Starting point is 01:24:58 and then you're like, I'm good with that. You know, it's like with fame, I say there's one thing. With fame, I've realized this, that every person who looks at me with some kind of an idea that it's elevated, that what I do is elevated, they think that as an actor who's doing well is walking a perpetual red carpet waving at a perpetual audience. Like, you don't do real shit. Right. Like, you don't change the chicken like shavings and with the shit all over it and put it in the bag and then take the bag to the trash yourself. Right, you don't pet the pig, you just eat the pork. That's exactly right.

Starting point is 01:25:41 Yeah. That's exactly right. And you go, no, I don't want to, I don't want that. I don't want that. And then people do that. Then they start thinking, oh, that's what I got to do. As a famous actor, I got to. I got to overreact. I got to just eat the pork. Fuck the pig. I don't even want to see the pig. I'm hungry. You know, can you go do that thing that you do to prepare my, you know what I mean? And I just don't want to do that, especially in my profession because I like your profession, you're a mirror. You throw shit back in people's face and they can laugh at it. They can laugh at their foibles.

Starting point is 01:26:18 They can laugh at their, you know, how absurd we are and the shit that we say and the stuff that we do. And I think that actors do the same thing in story. It's like, you know what I mean? Yeah, when you see an actor do something that you just can't and they are a scene that does something that you can't even you don't even know why you're crying you don't know why you're laughing

Starting point is 01:26:42 yeah you've ever done that thing where you're watching a movie and you're like cry laughing you're like so I'm moved but at the same time it's family man like family man yeah really have you seen that Nicholas Cage yeah of course I had yeah that's old school that's old school you love that movie I love it yeah it's good see everybody has their thing

Starting point is 01:27:04 I love that movie That's why you can't say like thrashing, ew. You're like, I don't know. I'm going to go watch that. And we have those movies that have those books. We have those movies. We have those seeing Eddie Murphy for the first time. I remember when I was in my room in Santa Barbara and I had this little TV, this little

Starting point is 01:27:21 with the antenna. Oh, yeah. You know, and I'm watching, what was it, delirious for the first time? I'm like, what the fuck? Oh, yeah. This is amazing. Oh, yeah. That felt like something new, like you couldn't even get into the world.

Starting point is 01:27:38 Dude, we had a TV like that and I would step and watch stuff sometimes and my brother would be like, turn off the fucking TV. I will fucking hide your legs in your asshole, right? He would say stuff like that because he was creative. But then, here's what he would happen to. This is what he would do to me. He'd be like, you can watch it, but you have to fucking keep your eyes closed, dude. And he'd be like, so dude, dude, I would. More creative.

Starting point is 01:28:01 Crazy. So I'd have to have the volume on the lowest thing as possible. I would be this close to the fucking, yeah, dude. Watching a fucking program. Older brother? Yes, of course. Well, he tells me he's awake,

Starting point is 01:28:15 but really he had fucking dozed off in a second later, but I couldn't tell because he was like, it was dark in there. That's hilarious. Oh, that's hilarious. Fuck, stuff like that was so good.

Starting point is 01:28:25 Louisiana. Stuff like that is so good. You look back on it. You're like, that was a good time. That wasn't a bad time. Steal the fucking balcony. We were, we were making stories. At least like, even though I was like, I don't know, there were parts of me that had to come alive so early, I think, because things were so uncomfortable.

Starting point is 01:28:42 And I think I'm glad that they were a lot. It took me kind of a long time to get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it had a lot of resent. How old are you? I'm 46. Yeah. So I'm almost your age.

Starting point is 01:28:52 No. Getting close, though. 12 years? You're 12 years older than me? Yeah. God. Yeah, dear. You fucking look good.

Starting point is 01:28:59 You know? And I wish you were, boy, chill, bro. I wish you were a freaking woman. And I don't even know what that means, dude. I got to get some help. We should just stop it there. I don't know. We're almost done.

Starting point is 01:29:12 I wish you were a woman. We're all. Thank you for joining us. This is the Theo Vaughn podcast. I do want to talk about one thing. I want to talk about like so I'm going through the steps again right now. Yeah, right on. With my sponsor.

Starting point is 01:29:26 Yeah. And did you, like I was just thinking about resentments. Did you ever have yourself as a resentment? Of course. Oh my God. Probably the biggest one. That's crazy, dude. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:37 Why? That's come up for me. Yeah. And somebody said something to meeting the other day, dude. And they said, I'm unacceptable to myself. Yeah. And I had never heard those words before. Yeah. And it was like, man, that's a lot of. And I'm not in self-pity. I'm just looking at it. No, no, no, just looking at it. Yeah. But I'm like, dude, that is a lot of like self-loathing. I've just, it gets like, I'm unacceptable to myself. Yeah, but, you know, not interesting. It's interesting. It's super. It's super. Super interesting. And I heard, and I've told this story before, but I'll tell you a story that I loved

Starting point is 01:30:11 and it shifted something in me. And Tony Hopkins told me this story, right? Mm-hmm. Who very proudly wears his sobriety on his sleeve. Yeah, I've heard of speak about it and will be in Instagram or whatever, which I love that Tony Hopkins is on Instagram. That's fucking great.

Starting point is 01:30:27 Yeah, he just, he loves like, it's not even like, you know, Instagram is this thing where you're trying to project some image and that people believe he doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. He just like, this is me. Oh, I'll get to see more.

Starting point is 01:30:39 Now he's just, like, wrote all these songs. Like, now he's not even focused on acting. He's, like, doing these compositions and these philharmonics are doing his music. It's just the coolest human being ever. But he told me, he was like, how great is it that we're like this? And I go, what does that mean? He was like, we're just alcoholic.

Starting point is 01:30:57 We're just angry and we're edgy and we're just dark. And I was like, is that a good thing? Is that like, I've always been, like, I always perceived that as like, that's shitty. And he goes, no, because given no direction and no tools, we create more harm and hurt than normal people than most people. But given a few tools, we can have a bigger impact than most people, given that we have the drive, that we have the motor. We have the motor of alcoholics.

Starting point is 01:31:28 I'm like, fuck yeah. But I heard that and I thought this is an 80-year-old. guy telling me this shit, you're, that's it. And he's British as well. What does that mean? It just means he was fucking raised with a fucking eating Cadbury eggs and everything over there. He's Welsh. He's Welsh. He's Welsh. Like Richard Burton, which the Welsh are different. Are they? Welsh are darker. Are they? Yeah, man. Oh, that's good. They're like great poets. Dylan Thomas was Welsh. I got to study up on them. Yeah, man. I'll send you a couple books. I'm going to send you my book. Will you? Yes. Of course I will. Great. We'll put it up on our shelf, dude.

Starting point is 01:32:09 Okay, good. On that note, I do want to say, I read some of you were friends at Cormac McCarthy or you that you knew him. Yeah. Yeah. I was with him the night he died. No way, dude. Yeah, it was me, his son, his ex-wife, and him. Did he live in Tennessee? No, he lived in San Faye, New Mexico, and I was there working. I was doing a series, and I would come in and see him and then at his house. I have his typewriter. I have his pool table. Wow.

Starting point is 01:32:35 His couch, shit that he gave me after, you know. It's cool. It's cool. He's a good dude. I like the hard guys. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:42 I like the guys that like, you think that like Cormack and the shit that he wrote is so severe and so, you know. But then he was the nicest guy. And he's so smart. He's so smart. 20,000 books he left.

Starting point is 01:32:57 Wow. When he died and they were arched. archiving his books and he would have he had like a thousand books on math or a thousand or or or 300 books on wales you're like oh you're a freak I love that talk about not being defined and plus that's another guy at which I think there was a parallel even though we didn't talk about it is that the first until all the pretty horses which I think is his sixth novel or a seventh that people had maybe bought maybe 1200 books of each novel so nobody bought his shit. Wow.

Starting point is 01:33:32 And he kept going. And it's kind of like me as an actor. Like, yeah, I started with the Goonies, which was cool. But then after that, it was just downhill. Nobody bought my shit. Nobody cared. Nobody cared. Oh, I was singing Shirley Tim.

Starting point is 01:33:44 Yeah, you were, exactly. That's what I mean. For free near windows, it wouldn't open. Dude, like now you're 46 and things are good, you know? It's great. I know, sometimes I can't believe God's grace in my life, even just in little moments. Yeah. You know?

Starting point is 01:33:57 And when I'm in that space, it's just everything is, it feels okay. I like what you said earlier, which is just like, everything's an experiment. As long as I'm malleable, I'm like wet clay, and I'm like, yeah, good.

Starting point is 01:34:08 Oh, that's interesting. Oh, look at that. That's cool. Yeah. Not like this, not contracting and not like that. You know, just like, ah, that's interesting. It's just like it's all kind of fascinating.

Starting point is 01:34:22 Going to UFC is fascinating. Getting up and trying to make people laugh, it's fascinating. Doing a movie and trying to make it work is fascinating. Yeah, dude. It's all like human shit. Yeah. Yesterday I had to do a solo episode of a podcast and I was so scared.

Starting point is 01:34:35 And then I was like, dude, I'm gonna have, let me remember why I started this. I can, let me go and try to have some fun. Yeah. Instead of fucking live in this whatever cage, I'm fucking always over here welding these fucking bars and screaming through them. That's cool. You did an episode by yourself? Yeah, we started this podcast and we did the first 100 episodes.

Starting point is 01:35:00 was just be by myself talking, and then we started having friends on and stuff like that. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it was fun. That's cool. It's been a good journey, dude. It's interesting, he had all those books on whales, and you ended up, and your new project is called Whale Fall.

Starting point is 01:35:13 And I got super inspired by that, and then I wrote a new story that we're gonna do in January called The Fisherman, and then after that, which is like, this is full circle with the rat, then Jeremy Renner and I, there's a story that's a true story that took place in Montauk, about a guy, two guys that went out on a boat fishing in this Montauk fishing community. One guy fell asleep.

Starting point is 01:35:36 One dude fell off the boat. And this guy was looking for this guy for 12 and a half hours. This dude was just like a rat, waiting in the water. No way he was going to survive. No way he was going to be found. It was like a 200 mile, you know, this radius. And you're just like, there's no way you're going to find the dude. And he had no floating device.

Starting point is 01:35:56 He had no nothing. Dang. And he survived. like a rat 12 and a half hours of swimming in place until he was found right at the last second he probably was sharks surrounded by sharks so I'm gonna be the rat

Starting point is 01:36:11 and Jeremy's gonna be the guy looking for me much easier job renter has I'll say that bro taking the easier with this guy I'll do it with brolin that sounds fun you're fucking soaking wet every set I like the whale's

Starting point is 01:36:29 stuff though I like look wow that's a lighthouse that's the nautical shit did you get that done after that I did let's go I did you it meant that I mean it meant that much and it was a guy who had passed that it was let me see it one more time man you already showed it once it was hit in his honor I'm looking at the art to him out look at your body okay now you're making it different oh dude that's cool bro I mean it just is what it is and I don't have to look at it. Everybody else has to look at it. But I know I'm carrying it. And that's all I give a shit about. Yeah. It's a good reminder for me. And there's a great word Aratea. It's a Greek word that this guy gave me and it means excellence in everything that you do. And then the

Starting point is 01:37:19 five birds of my family. So that's cool. That's a family Christ. Experiment it. Experimenting. That's it. Why get a tattoo? I don't know. Why the fuck not? Yeah. I don't have. I mean, I have these but I don't really have it. I had all my tattoos removed when I was 30. Yeah, didn't need them anymore. And then this one came and sure, why not? Do it. Yeah. Experiment, man. I love it. Um, nice spending time, bro. You too, dude. Nice to get to catch up. Nice to get to say hello and to spend some time together, man. I've heard you speak before. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was at Bread and Roses. Yeah. And we know Lodge. Yeah, we know Lise, dude. Who's such a sweet guy. I've heard. I've heard you He is a sweet guy.

Starting point is 01:38:01 I got to check in with him. Yeah. I'll text him a picture of us when we're done. Yeah, okay. But yeah, thanks so much, Josh. Thanks for just being a creative. Thanks for sticking with your art. That's cool, because now you can tell stories that are going to inspire the rest of us.

Starting point is 01:38:13 Thanks for telling me about whale fall and just that it meant something to you. Because, yeah, sometimes it's like you don't know who else is looking for that little piece of connection between like, or something about a father and a son. And they're going to hear about that and that might be something for them. So, yeah, getting out here today to be a bridge for little moments. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So, Josh Boland, thank you so much, man.

Starting point is 01:38:35 Thank you, brother. Yep. Much love. Now, I'm just floating on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be. My rec league goalie says he plays for the love of the game. You gave up six goals last week, Steve? Maybe play to win, huh?

Starting point is 01:39:11 Like with Bet365, I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. Come on, Steve, bet 365, the home of winning early. Must be 19 and older, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you were someone you know is concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca or call 1866 5 through 1,2,600. Terms and conditions apply.

This Past Weekend - #690 - Josh Brolin

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