This Past Weekend - E513 Louis Theroux

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Starting point is 00:01:02 thank you to anybody that's come out in support and seen the show and just can't even believe it and I'll see you guys there baby praise God baby gang today's guest is a documentarian a journalist an instigator of sorts he has a new documentary that's trending right now on Netflix called Tell Them You Love Me. It's really fascinating if you haven't seen it. He's he's always splashing in the dark pools of society and we're grateful for all his contributions over the years that have kept us entertained and intrigued and informed as well.

Starting point is 00:01:48 Today's guest here from the United Kingdom is Mr. Louis Theroux. ["Shine That Light On Me"] I'll sit and tell you my stories Shine on me And I will find a song I will sing as it goes Oh, I like your voice, man. I like your voice. You do? Yeah. Oh, voice, man. I like your voice. You do? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:28 Oh, thanks, man. I'd like to speak like that. Well, I think, well, it's interesting coming to London because you see where it started at. Coming to London is very much like going and looking at the roots of America. Yeah. And the English language. and looking at the roots of America. Yeah, and the English language.

Starting point is 00:02:46 And you probably know this, but they say Shakespeare, if he were alive today, would speak like kind of like an Appalachian. He'd be a, I feel like he'd probably be a rapper or something now. He'd probably be a rapper. He'd talk kind of like this. Yeah, he'd be like, where the hoes at?

Starting point is 00:03:01 Yeah, because words like got, we say gotten in America or fall. We say Because words like got, we say gotten in America, or fall, we say autumn, those are, and Shakespeare, he talked kind of like, it's a lot of fun talking to you, Theo Vaughan, because I'm kind of a stand-up comedian too. Oh, so he- But I make plays.

Starting point is 00:03:18 Yeah. But there is different characters on stage talking and stuff. Are you serious, William? That sounds really- Yeah. I love words. Yeah? That sounds really... Yeah. I love words. Yeah? It feels weird talking to you.

Starting point is 00:03:28 Like, it feels a little offensive, like I'm caricaturing. No, I don't think so. Well, I think... You can hear everything that's wrong with what I'm doing, but to me it sounded perfect. Well, it's funny, because people will like joke about a white accent that's kind of country,

Starting point is 00:03:41 but they don't, like they don't... But if you do it about a black accent, it seems like it gets offensive, you know? Yeah, but I don't... like they don't, but if you do it about a black accent, it seems like it gets offensive, you know? Yeah, but I don't, this is, okay, this doesn't, I don't use terms like, I obviously I don't use racial slurs, but I don't say white trash, for example, and that sounds like maybe prissy, but I don't, or I wouldn't use the term hillbilly. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think it's- I don't feel like, maybe because I came from a position of something like a little bit of privilege in life and it feels like you're looking down on people.

Starting point is 00:04:13 Yeah. Well, I think it's like, in the past eight years, I would say in the US, they made it so the only people they would make fun of anymore were kind of like poor white people or just white people kind of. So they kind of stuck themselves in this place. Yes. I think it's one of the reasons why podcasting has had a rise over the years because it still kept this just freedom of like, well, I'm not, I'll just, we'll talk about whatever we feel like.

Starting point is 00:04:41 We'll try to just be our normal selves. And set and actually be loose and free. I used to, in the 90s, I worked with, do you know who Michael Moore is? The documentary maker. So he was my mentor of a sort. He gave me my first job on TV. I worked for a show called TV Nation in the mid-90s. It was on NBC and then it was on Fox. But it felt like, because it was a very, it was a left wing, kind of politically engaged, but it felt like the one thing we were okay, as we as a collective on the show, with making fun of was kind of white Southerners. So it was like, oh well, we're gonna channel all that

Starting point is 00:05:13 into just making fun of Billy Joel and Billy Bob. And I always slightly felt like maybe this isn't okay. You know what I mean? Like the last acceptable taboo, making fun of the dumb crackers. Yeah dude, these damn dumb. They don't know shit, they're dumb as a stump. They're drinking gasoline.

Starting point is 00:05:31 Yeah, right. They're making love. Doing donuts and driving around thinking that's fun. They're doing donuts in their sister's vagina. Yeah man. That's the scariest place to do one. But during, for some reason there was like something in the past, like eight years when

Starting point is 00:05:45 it hit that, that people started to kind of get fed up with it in a way. Or they just wanted equality. They just wanted, we'll make fun of everybody. Like don't just, you know, and I think some of that came with like the Trump stuff. People thought that all Trump supporters were just like complete, thought that all Trump supporters were just like complete, he'll, you know, he'll build his ignoramances. And I think you see that a little bit in some of the stuff Sacha Baron Cohen did. You ever watched like Borat and Bruno and it felt like,

Starting point is 00:06:17 Felt mean to me. It felt a bit mean. Sometimes. Yeah, when he was making fun of that, he takes, you remember this one, it's kind of, it's weird because sometimes you feel it's funny I feel I don't you know I don't want to be done because he's it's funny and it felt a little bit like He was beating up on

Starting point is 00:06:33 Country folk. Yeah, you know what I mean Yeah, I think it I think as long as everybody's getting beaten up on it seems good Yeah And that's I think where I feel like things are kind of hedging back that way because there's nowhere else for them to go right now. Man, London is marvelous, bro. Oh, you're welcome. I didn't know. I didn't think I really... I was always kind of against the British like, yeah. Come on, really? Yeah, we're Polish. My father's from Nicaragua, but his father was from Poland. So my parent, my grandfather met his wife in Nicaragua doing missionary work a long time ago.

Starting point is 00:07:10 So you're kind of Latin. I'm Polish-Nicaraguan. That's kind of how I feel the most, I guess. Because my father was very like, you know, he would just talk in Spanish and drink small coffees and, you know, and probably think about, you know, dancing with women that weren't my mother. Just doing the lambada. Yes. The forbidden dance. But you were growing up in Covington and it must have been like, you were quite exotic in those terms because that's mainly white and a few black people,

Starting point is 00:07:38 right? To be Nicaraguan, wouldn't that count for being a bit like? Well, yeah, it even starts with N.I., you know, so immediately you were getting kind of lumped in with the brothers. You can pass. Like you look pretty white to me. Yeah. I feel weird saying that. Just saying that felt uncomfortable, like I was sounding like David Duke or something.

Starting point is 00:07:56 No, I used to share a back fence with David Duke. Did you? Yeah. When he, his girlfriend, he dated the hottest chick that worked at our seafood restaurant. Duke did? Yeah. When he, his girlfriend, he dated the hottest chick that worked at our seafood restaurant. Duke did? They said that was his, um, people in the, you know, who were part of the white nationalist movements that that was his, other than his racism and being a Nazi, like his other big failing was that he had an eye for the ladies. He was always having trouble shagging the wrong person's wife. Yeah. Oh yeah. I could see that. I think he had a problem with seafood. But yeah, because there's a lot of, yeah, and he may be suffering from gout, you know?

Starting point is 00:08:29 Yeah, he's pretty old now. It could be just racism built up in his joints, but as a neighbor, nice guy. For real. Yeah, pretty, pretty, yeah, like we didn't see much, you know, we'd go to the gym sometimes and sometimes he and I would lift weights, but at that- Seriously. Yeah, but- But he's quite a bit older.

Starting point is 00:08:47 Yeah, he was older. This was probably 20 years ago. At that point, he was, you know, just kind of a, still a healthy guy at the gym, but he wasn't yelling racist things or wearing like a racist shirt or anything. No, his thing was he left the clan to found the NAWP. Oh yeah?

Starting point is 00:09:06 You remember that? Uh-uh. I mean, it might be before your time, National Association for the Advancement of White People. White people, yeah. His thing was like, you know, black people can do it, why can't I? It's just the same thing, civil rights.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Yeah. Civil rights from my people. Yeah. It was the accent, all right, what are you hearing when I'm doing that? Yeah, I'm hearing just like you just kind of like having like a country accent. What do you do in English one?

Starting point is 00:09:27 All right. Good day, friends. Keep going. All right. Oh, nice to see you today, miss. Say I grew up in Louisiana. Cause it's hard when you're mixing. So I grew up in Covington, Louisiana and most of my, I met, you could just say,

Starting point is 00:09:41 just talk about that. Well, I grew up in Covington, Louisiana, sir. Most of my, I mean, you could just say, just talk about that. Well, I grew up in Cobbington, Louisiana, sir. And I was just a wee fella there with my mom and me grandmom. Not too bad. And she died. She had typhoid or she had a black lung, something. I don't know. I don't know how British to get. Yeah. So we ate a lot of like war meals. Every, a lot of the food here tastes like a lot of war meals. I feel like yes

Starting point is 00:10:08 Which war like the second one? I'm not sure I'll have to open after do you mean like um check a reference So like you'll be delicious if you were in a war Yeah, like it feels like somebody like hurried you into a tent to eat. Yeah, this is what the chef had cook had I you know, like I'm half American, my dad's from Boston, Massachusetts. And so I feel a very divided loyalty. Like, and I remember, but at the same time, because I grew up mainly in South London,

Starting point is 00:10:35 I would come to America to visit my relations. Many of them lived around Boston or on Cape Cod. We'd holiday on Cape Cod. Oh, fancy, huh? If you know that, very nice, yeah. How are ya? That's how they would, how are ya? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:47 That's a different American accent. Yeah. It's wicked. And so your American fan base is gonna be like, what the fuck is he doing? But my point was that when they would have stereotypes about British people or English people, I would feel slightly offended,

Starting point is 00:11:04 because if you grow up in it, you don't notice like, oh, the food's awful or the idea that English people will have bad teeth. And I was like, no, we don't, but actually we kind of, certainly did then, they're a little better now. But yeah, I'm interested in what you see from the outside. So the food's not so good. The food is not yet, the food doesn't strike me. The way, the wind,

Starting point is 00:11:27 this is one thing I noticed. The women are, they seem to be neater women. They seem to have more ambiance about them. I think, and this is no disrespect to America or anything. America seems like a lot more kind of social media obsessed and like kind of fake tit kind of obsessed. Whereas I feel like here some of the women just seem to have their own more of their own world to them.

Starting point is 00:11:58 Like you have a girlfriend? I don't have a girlfriend. So you're out here, you know, down for whatever. I'm not just, you know, just smashing any, you know, traipser or whatever people call you or whatever somebody- What was the term? Traipser, somebody traipsing by or whatever. Okay. Yeah, I'm not out here like touching people or anything.

Starting point is 00:12:19 You nearly said molesting. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not, yeah. I mean, I'm doing everything legal. Of course. I'm doing legal work here. Yeah, of course. But you're out here thinking like I'm a free, I'm young. I could meet a woman. I could meet a wife.

Starting point is 00:12:32 You could meet your future wife. Yeah, I think I'm in the, I'm more to the place now where, yeah, I would like to meet a wife, you know? So, but I just think that some of- Have you been out going out to clubs and bars? No, no, I don't go to clubs. We went last, Jimmy Carr took us out the other night to the Chilton.

Starting point is 00:12:49 Chilton Firehouse. Chilton Firehouse. That's high rolling. It was fancy in there. That's fancy, the drinks are expensive, but they're very delicious. Oh, and the lamps even had, they didn't have like the little clicker on the back,

Starting point is 00:13:00 on the cord, they had the actual, Right. Where you pull the, yeah. You know, like a little string, like a bonafide lamp. Yeah. Like that time, like it was like, does that count for a lot? Like a string, some that's very, that seems like a low bar for both, like formality, I think the lamps had strings on them.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Well, I think reaching behind the little desk that it's on. It was so fancy that place. I didn't even have switches. They had lamps with little strings dangling's on. It was so fancy that place. They didn't even have switches. They had lamps with little strings dangling off them. Is it offensive if I do that? We can cut that out. If you feel like your fans are gonna be like, why'd you get that limey on there and he just rolled you?

Starting point is 00:13:36 No, I don't think so. I'll let you know if it feels weird. I think because we're talking about it, it's fine. If somebody was being like, but I think that's something that happened in America, it was like people were like, fuck you, you'll try and sell us your television programming, but the only thing that's on it is you're only brave enough

Starting point is 00:13:55 to make fun of us. Like you're not even artistic anymore. I think that's something that's happened a lot with like Hollywood, is they they become like fifth and sixth generation Hollywooders now it's not they're not as accepting of like people coming in and bringing in different ideas it doesn't feel like a melting pot of ideas anymore it feels like the people that originally came there and had the ideas some of the some of that's kind of dissipated just by like

Starting point is 00:14:24 nepotism and stuff like that sometimes. And insularity, they're in a bubble. I'll say like, you know, because I came up as a, you know, from the outward appearances being British, but then I got my break in America working for Michael Moore and then I was doing story, first, one of the first stories I did was about the Ku Klux Klan and I was in- Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Okay, Zink Arkansas and what, the show that I did or the phenomenon of the Klan or both? I'm familiar with the one, where's the part where the guy, you guys are at the house and they ask you if you're Jewish or the guy tries to bug you about it?

Starting point is 00:14:55 Okay, that was a different one because then it was like it worked. So that was also, I was with the Neo-Nazis in California, but the first one was a guy called Michael Lowe. He lived in Waco, Texas. Oh yeah. And he said, no sir. And it was the first time I encountered that southern thing of being called sir, but in a way that felt formal

Starting point is 00:15:12 to the point of slightly unfriendly. Yes sir, it's real nice, come over here sir. Like it could have felt like polite, but it felt like distancing, you know what I mean? No, just like that. And he was showing me all his signs in the site. They were pretending not to be racist. Oh yeah, I've seen this actually.

Starting point is 00:15:28 But they're in the Ku Klux Klan. So he's leaving out this stuff and it says, and this is something an atom we use for our world side sales and it's called for the discriminating shopper. Yes, sir. And it said discriminating in red and I go, but why does it say discriminating in red? You know, it just like that because it kind of stands out.

Starting point is 00:15:47 And I said, but does that mean you discriminate? He goes, no, sir, we do not discriminate, no, sir. And it was an odd thing, but my point, the point I was going to get to was that when those shows go out in the U.S., I'm thinking like, I'm half American. Like this isn't me making fun of American culture, but some people didn't see it that way. And I always felt like a very divided,

Starting point is 00:16:07 and I did one, I had one where I went around Miami mega jail, like the big, one of the biggest jails in the states. Oh yeah, in Dade County. Yeah, Miami Dade, yeah. Fourth floor, fifth floor, where we? Yes, so you've seen this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:19 Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm familiar. I don't want you to think that I'm not familiar. Oh, I appreciate it. So I thought it was a good show, but then when it went out on Netflix, I guess most people, a lot of people liked it, but some of the comments were like from people, I think black people who are like,

Starting point is 00:16:31 why is this white British guy going in, kind of making us look bad? Which it's a valid response, but it's definitely not how it was intended. So I'm conscious of that feeling of being insider, but outsider as well. Yeah, you know, it's fine. I was thinking about that. I was like, of that feeling of being insider, but outsider as well. Yeah, you know, it's fine. I was thinking about that. I was like, I wonder what it feels like, because once you kind of, as somebody who's coming to look at something and explore it

Starting point is 00:16:54 and see how you can be a filter or like a kaleidoscope for the other people behind you that are going to watch it, what is that? Is it tough? Like, at a certain point, do you become a bit of a jaded kaleidoscope? Do you become like a, do you like, yeah, how does your funnel change over time just because of doing it more and more? And because it garnered also there's, it garners esteem. And so that's, it's, it's just interesting how the different, how different factors can start to affect the funnel. I think the best thing that's happened to me is that I'm not that well known in America and you know it's changed a little bit for various reasons so I have a little bit of

Starting point is 00:17:35 a profile but I think the fact that I can go in, if I did a documentary in the UK I'd be pretty well known. Yeah. And it's fine, you can still do it. In some ways it generates more goodwill because they're like, oh, we like Louie, we'll let him in. And then off camera you're maybe doing selfies and whatnot, which is fine,

Starting point is 00:17:51 although it kind of eats into your time a bit. And you think, I'm supposed to be a serious journalist slightly flying under the radar and here I am doing selfies at a riot. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I really need to be filming this right now. So sorry, someone's being arrested over there. Oh, just a quick selfie, come on, mate.

Starting point is 00:18:07 And then in America, however, I'm just, I'm going around Miami jail, no one's going to ask me for a selfie there. Do you know what I mean? And I love that part. And I never get jaded as long as I feel I'm meeting new people. The only times where I felt like the dynamic changes is if I go back and do a follow up a couple of times. So I did a story about the Westboro Baptist Church. Yeah, I'm familiar. That's in Louisiana, right?

Starting point is 00:18:26 It's in Kansas, Topeka, Topeka, Kansas. I think we have a branch in Louisiana. I don't think so. Really? Yeah. They don't really do branches. It's really just a one stop shop. Oh yeah. Unless there's obviously crazy, I use the term crazy advisedly, but there's other outfits, there's strange churches, but with Westboro, there's only, as far as I'm aware, there's only ever been, one of the guys left and moved to Louisiana. I wonder if that's what you're thinking about. I thought they had a Ford operating base or something in Louisiana.

Starting point is 00:18:58 Maybe, like a little beachhead. Yeah, like a... That's deployed from here. So when I went back, you know, did the first one, I'm like, hello, how does it work? Like, nice to meet you. So you carry these signs, what's that all about? And then you made the program,

Starting point is 00:19:13 and then I went and made a follow-up. And when you go back, they kind of have your number. And I don't mean number as in like, they know you're a prankster or making fun of them. It's more like they just know who you are. Right. So they don't put up with any nonsense and you know who they are.

Starting point is 00:19:27 So that point, the word you used was jaded. You get a little jaded and that creates a different energy. So you are sort of saying, come on, just stop it. It's racist or it's homophobic. It's antisemitic. And you just cut to the chase quicker, which, uh, you know, you have no camouflage.

Starting point is 00:19:46 So it doesn't make it impossible to do work. And so as long as I'm on a new story, even if it's a related story to something like, if you put me in a prison in the US tomorrow, I'd be a very happy person. Wow. So you like that sort of, you like being the princess in the P, you like being the pea under the mattress kind of?

Starting point is 00:20:06 Yeah, yeah, kind of. I'm working with that metaphor. I'm waiting for it to make sense. But yes, like maybe I'm the princess in the sense that I love that fairy tale, by the way. Yeah. You remember how it works? Like she stops the night and she says, I'm a princess.

Starting point is 00:20:20 And they say, we don't believe you. And they say, here's how you test. And they don't say anything to her. They say, get a pea. Am I, do you you test. And they don't say anything to her. They say, get a pee. Am I, you remember how it is. And they put like a hundred mattresses. And they put all the mattresses. Like a ton.

Starting point is 00:20:31 And the next one, they say, how did you sleep? And they said, I slept terrible. And then what? I was tossing and turning all night because the one pee. But the point is a point about, oh, she really was a princess. Cause she could feel a pee. I mean, it sounds kind of like a nightmare, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:44 Well, I grew, yeah, I definitely, I used to have those buzzer underwear that would shock you if you peed about that But also you just buzzed surely it was pretty strong the voltage we got you went through a lot growing up We got a pretty high voltage package. I think my mom wanted me to fucking feel it. Yeah, I got him for Christmas It was a gift I remember and it was kind of fun because you would be able to like just sprinkle some water on him and turn them on You know, and so my brother would be like do the thing, you know, and I would do it But um, do they still sell those? Oh I don't know. That's a good question. I but uh, I don't know

Starting point is 00:21:19 I think having the electricity and the you're in the pool of urine was a bad It was a very eighties, nineties thing. But no, I mean, you're like, you're the P actually that gets put in, like you're the thing that has an effect on the... I see. Yeah. Yeah. I've got the distorting effect of being, of mixing things up and, and yeah, I very much, I do, I do like that. I, yeah, I don't know what else to say about that.

Starting point is 00:21:45 Yeah, like how did that ever start in you that you desired like? Okay, I like invisibility and I'm an anxious person. And because I grew up always worrying about things, I found if I was talking to someone who seemed off beam or just in any way like their mind worked differently. Like I was, maybe all kids are like this, but I was the kid who,

Starting point is 00:22:07 if there was a homeless person with his mouth open and I was like five or six years old, I'd be like, what's going on with that? Mom, why is that man got his mouth open? What, mom? And they're like, shh, you know, things you're not supposed to talk about, don't talk about it.

Starting point is 00:22:21 Or if you read about just weird stuff happening, like guys falling asleep and kind of getting, you know, and then burning to death because they were in the sun and they were wearing too much sun oil. And it's like, what does that feel like? I was just kind of, I think there were aspects of life that felt so strange. It took me out of myself and whatever inner voices of anxiety and disquiet I had, they were silenced. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:22:48 And so if you're on location, you're going and talking to someone who, like the first story I ever did was for Michael Moore and it was called Millennium and it was about people who think the end of the world is about to happen. And my main anxiety was, I'm gonna be terrible at being on TV, right? I just didn't think I had, whatever that gift is.

Starting point is 00:23:05 Like I was very nervous. I thought, I know, I always think I know at least five people who would be way better at this than me, like my best friends were all really funny. People I grew up with who went on to be comedians and talented performers, right? And I'm thinking, I'm the least funny one in my friendship group.

Starting point is 00:23:21 And yet I was 23 years old and I'd been given this break. And the only thing I had that I was clinging onto that I thought, but I, I'm going to take this opportunity of, of being a net, you know, being a correspondent on this new show, because I want to meet these people who are part of these crazy cults who think the world is about to end. I just thought that does sound like, but that sounds fascinating and I will enjoy that part of it. And maybe enjoying speaking to them, they'll get some usable footage.

Starting point is 00:23:50 And that was really the launch pad, like was the fact that I just want to know, like, why do you think that? What part of you, you know, like when is it going to all happen? When is Jesus coming back and what will he be wearing? And is that a Tuesday or a Wednesday? And the concrete detail or the UFO, there were four different groups, and there was a UFO group. They were landing in Southern California,

Starting point is 00:24:10 the spaceships were gonna land in 2001. And then there was a group in Western Montana who were a part of a neo-Nazi outfit who wore little Nazi uniforms. I remember it was day three. First two days it went terrible. It went terrible. Like I thought.

Starting point is 00:24:27 With the neo-Nazis you mean? No, day one was Harold Camping. He was a fundamentalist Christian. He talked like this. And then Jesus is gonna come back, see? Yeah. And then day two was a UFO group. And they were all kind of touchy feely.

Starting point is 00:24:41 Like we're not preaching doom and gloom. We're not fearful at all. But it was kind of like they kept talking, like I just didn't feel like I was clicking with them, like they talked too much basically, and I was too polite and scared to interrupt. But then day three, the Nazis bizarrely were the most polite and the most sort of emotionally available. Does that make sense? So they were just, I think they were just so lonely and so bored, living, like two guys living in a trailer in Western Montana.

Starting point is 00:25:10 Oh yeah. The me arriving and they're like, come on in. So great to have you, you know, there's a lot of truth in the prophecies that are written up in Star Wars, the movie Star Wars. And what about Star Trek? Star Trek's another one, A lot of truth in that. Different planets for different races. And I thought like I was, I didn't want to talk too

Starting point is 00:25:30 much about myself because I thought they'd probably assume I was Jewish because a lot of people assume I'm Jewish and I thought that would lead to an interesting dynamic. So, and it was just really striking how they were just thrilled to be telling the good news about different races going to different planets and how there was this neo-Nazi cosmic vision. And I just sort of go like, wow, that's fascinating. Tell me more. And in the ambiance of kind of weird, I don't want to say friendship, but this sort of weird feeling of warmth that infused the room and the ludicrousness of what they were saying. I thought, okay, I can do this. Like I can do my job. This is funny and interesting.

Starting point is 00:26:13 That's cool, man. And I thought that was it. Now, not only did I think I've got this, I thought like, I'm one of the greatest TV performers of all time. Right, I'm that quick. You know what I mean? It went like that. I was like, this isn't a segment. This is a feature film. And in fact, Michael Moore better watch out because I'm way bigger than that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Oh, it's wild how your ego. This is three days in, three days in. Of course. I'm too big for this. So wild how your ego will kind of be the thing that coerces you, that tickles you enough and prods you enough to even get on stage. And the second you open your mouth, then it jumps right in front of

Starting point is 00:26:49 you and fucking thinks you're Katy Perry or somebody or Ben and Nick Arnold or whatever. Yeah, I don't have a middle range. Like I'm either this is a disaster or I smashed it. Same. That's probably pretty normal. Yeah, I think that's pretty, I think it's, you know, I go to like 12 step recovery and they all, there's a term in there. It's always like, I'm the ego maniac with an inferiority complex. That's a big term that people say in there. It's terrible when you say something about you think it's unique and it turns out

Starting point is 00:27:19 not only is it not unique, like it's a cliche. My personality type is actually a cliche. That's kind of disappointing. But then it seems, that's when you realize maybe we are all already AIs, you know? Like we are in a sim. Well, I think- There's nothing original about me or you, maybe you, but not me.

Starting point is 00:27:42 Well, that's not very fair to put it on me since you made it so sullen, but I will say this dude. One time Joe Rogan said, I was talking with him and I'm not name dropping, I know you've been over there before. He said, you know, there's many of us out there. There's like seven Theo Vans, there's like seven Louis Theroux, there's like a whole, there's like, uh, seven, uh, Louie, the Rose, there's like a whole map there's like, there's just happening at the same time. And I don't know if I believe it. And one of them is Asian and a couple of them are probably in Africa, which is crazy to

Starting point is 00:28:16 think about. Right. Yeah, it is. But I don't know if I believe that cause it takes away some of your own like, um, sense of being valued to yourself. That was one of the reasons why, I've never said this before I don't think, but when I went to America, I felt able to be on TV because I thought, well, there's not many people like me here, and I could be the British guy.

Starting point is 00:28:39 Whereas in the UK and certainly in London, I feel like there's hundreds of guys who are just like me. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Whereas you actually, you've carved a path for yourself surrounded by people who are somewhat, probably somewhat similar. There's other versions of you out there,

Starting point is 00:28:56 but you're the best, you must be the best one because you rose to the top. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if sometimes why I've had been, like had success in this business or been fortunate. Like I just hated not having a lot of opportunity I felt like. And then when podcasting came along, it felt like you could just do what you, you could just be yourself, you know, that's what it felt. And it's like, yeah, I don't know. I

Starting point is 00:29:22 don't know. I've been like a slow evolver in life. I'm kind of a slow learner and like a late evolver kind of and so... Are you still fasting? No. Because I... you were fasting for a time. Oh, yeah, I fasted for a time. I almost bit into a damn employee at a... At a Best Buy? Yeah. Or Costco.

Starting point is 00:29:41 It was Best Buy. I don't go to Costco. Why not? I don't know. Is there Why not? I don't know. Is there a difference? I don't like seeing that much food at once. Because. Just. Too tempting?

Starting point is 00:29:52 No, it makes me feel sad. Have you been to Aldi since you've been here? Aldi, the supermarket? No. Everything's cheap. You can't spend more than 50 pounds if you try. Oh wow. It's wild because in itself, check out,

Starting point is 00:30:04 so you have a little plastic bin and, uh, it's a discount retailer, but you, you, you, you don't, you don't get a whole cart, like a trolley, like you have to pull down a little plastic thing around. And then when you get to, you check out and you're boop, you know, you do the self check out, but the barcodes are really big.

Starting point is 00:30:21 So it's not too difficult. Is this making sense? Yeah, a hundred percent. Because if you self check out, you don't want to be fussing with the tiny barcode. You pass it right five times, it's driving you insane, right? But the big beep, and then the bin's not that big. It's pretty big, but you pile it up,

Starting point is 00:30:35 and then you could get as much in there as possible, and it's like 50 pounds. Oh wow. It's wild. I mean, it's not wild, but you save so, if you're thrifty as I am, you save a lot of money. Wherever you're going, you better believe American Express will be right there with you heading for adventure will help you breeze through security. Meeting friends a world away.

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Starting point is 00:34:11 So early on is pornography causing a problem in your life? That's a good question. It's a real question. It has in mind, it has certain periods in my life, uh, watching porno and everything and watching porno was making me, it was ruining my life. It was ruining my life, man. It made me feel just so much shame.

Starting point is 00:34:33 That's what it did. Well, watching pornography has become commonplace today, and oftentimes men will use porno to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety and depression. That's why I want to introduce you to my friend, Steven Wolt. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery. He is a dear friend of mine. He is a dear friend of mine.

Starting point is 00:34:59 And Valor Recovery is a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity. That's right, their coaches are in long-term recovery and they will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide to transcend problematic behaviors. There is zero commitment if you reach out to them. It's just the first step in trying to figure out if you may need some help, if you can get some help.

Starting point is 00:35:24 To learn more about valor recovery please visit them at valor recovery coaching comm or email them at admin at valor recovery coaching comm the links will be on the YouTube and again there's no commit when you commitment when you reach out to them. But I promise you, only something positive will come from you reaching out and figuring out what type of help, if any, could benefit you. Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to say, yeah, I think that there's something very, the female, the women here seem like more

Starting point is 00:36:08 confident in themselves. Interesting. And it's not a judgment against American women, but it's just something that I noticed. It just seems like they have their own things going on. I think in America, sometimes it feels like a lot, we've created this space where women have to feel like this desperation to be seen on social media sometimes

Starting point is 00:36:27 Yeah, and I don't know if I feel that here and I'm not even saying that I'm not judging the women I'm just saying that that's a that's just something that I kind of feel like we've created in the States more But you live in Nashville, which is his own culture in its own milieu, right? Yeah, it's quiet. It's like families culture in its own milieu, right? Yeah, it's quiet. It's like families. A lot of country and Western music. Yeah, a lot of country, Western music. It's fine.

Starting point is 00:36:50 I- Why not New York or LA? I lived in LA for a bit. It was too much. It just, it stayed closed during the pandemic and Nashville was open. And I didn't want to start paying the taxes in LA and have to, and have it be closed.

Starting point is 00:37:08 And so I was like, I'm going to move to a place that's open. Is there a big opioid and heroin problem in Nashville? In all of America there is now. I did a story in Huntington, West Virginia, and we called it Heroin Town. And it was one of those places, you just arrive, nicest, friendliest people, and just a terrible, terrible, I don't know, it might be better now, but back then, it was about four years ago, five years ago.

Starting point is 00:37:33 A lot of people sleeping and walking, kind of, sleepwalking? A lot of people dying on the streets, and then they get Narcanned, and then they pop back to life. And they're mainly just annoyed because they're like, I was enjoying that, you know? Oh, cause you brought, oh, they were enjoying that. Yeah, you knocked the opioids off their receptors.

Starting point is 00:37:51 And they're like, what'd you do that for? Yeah, damn it, let me ride. Yeah, let me ride again. It's almost like it's really become the new bull riding. It's like, I thought you were gonna say bungee jumping, but yes. It's like, and then, and then someone like, if you, excuse me, sir, have you taken anything and like, no, and they just can't keep that.

Starting point is 00:38:11 Like, I'm just praying. Let me pray for a second. Yeah. It's wild. Well, one of the things that really, this is where I think, would you stop? It's really strange. Well, one of the things that started, they didn't even prosecute that family that did the opioid epidemic.

Starting point is 00:38:28 Yeah, the Sackler family. That's fucking- But they sued them. They got a civil suit, but they said- But what does that mean? They're fucking riding around and eating banana pudding or whatever. Easily.

Starting point is 00:38:38 While people are dying in the fucking, they even hit a speed bump and they're like, driver, be careful. And like, that's an opioided man that we hit. You did it. You know, it and like, driver, be careful. And like, that's an opioid man that we hit. You did it. You know, it's like, and once that's, that's one of the things that's really started to make people in America be like, there's nobody looking out for us anymore. That was a huge part of it. I bet that book, by the way, Empire of pain. I haven't read that Patrick Redden Keefe brilliant book about how they started making, you know, kind of medical, coming three brothers and then the dynasty,

Starting point is 00:39:10 how they created various drugs. Each of them in different ways problematic, like with side effects and then the mother of all terrible drugs, which was the oxys and whatever. And a lot of them live in Stade now, apparently. Do you know Stade in Switzerland? Like it's a playground of the wealthy. Of the wealthy that are hiding from... Yeah, yeah. Wow, that'd be a good documentary. Yeah, if you could get in there. They probably don't want to speak. And then it must be tough for the museums are all having to give the money back and take down, because they made

Starting point is 00:39:43 all these donations. Right. But it's, I think you're right. I think the sense of betrayal and the way in which, the way in which it was cynically rolled out and the way in which doctors were induced to over prescribe and legislators were persuaded. Yeah, that's unbelievable. And sales reps were all incentivized

Starting point is 00:40:03 to make inappropriate sales. I mean, everyone knows this now, but it was way worse than the pandemic, right? In terms of the loss of life. Unbelievably worse. And to think that it didn't even hit that big of a crescendo. I've never taken it.

Starting point is 00:40:19 Yeah. Have you? I've never taken it. I'm afraid. Ventinol. Yeah. You got that good ventinol. God, they got it. That Fenty they call it. I'm afraid. Fentanyl. You got that good Fentanyl. God, they got it. That fanny they call it.

Starting point is 00:40:27 Is it? That Fenty. People just, yeah, just lay there. And then carfentanil. It's like each one. Do you know about carfentanil? That's the elephant tranquilizer. It's like, it's a hundred times stronger. A hundred times? What? Than fentanyl. And fentanyl, if you touch it, you can overdose. Yeah. You don't even have to take it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:48 And so police officers are bagging it up and then keeling over saying, this is the best day of my life. It's a sad. That's so sad. That's awful. And then, or inhaling it, right? When they used to break into meth labs,

Starting point is 00:41:01 and then there was like the officers were getting it. You were keeling over because they weren't wearing gas masks. You remember all of that? Some of them weren't doing it on purpose. I met after that first day. They're like, yeah, I'm leaving this at home. I'll be back in a month. You leave this one for me.

Starting point is 00:41:15 I'll bag it up. You get on with the next hit. Yeah, no, it's awful. And then calf fentanyl a hundred times. It might be 10 times. You can Google it. Even if it's one time. Do you have a guy who can Google? have you got a Google guy like Joe?

Starting point is 00:41:26 Yeah, he is. He can do it right over there. Can you Google it? He's an import. Who's Joe's Google guy? Jamie. Get Jamie. Jamie, can you check that?

Starting point is 00:41:34 Yeah, can you bring that up, dude? Black people in wishing wells? Is that what you were looking for? What's that? He's always at the crack. Carfentanil is like, I think it's a hundred times stronger. That's it's like, what are we doing? How could we?

Starting point is 00:41:51 I think at that point people were like, no. And so that on when after that happened and then COVID happened, that's one of the huge reasons nobody trusted any of the pharmaceutical industry, because everybody just seen, I have four friends that died from fentanyl, right? Seriously. Swear to God, absolutely deceased. People you grew up with. Off the face of the earth.

Starting point is 00:42:11 Some from adulthood, but some from childhood, right? Gone, that's just me, and I don't even run in those circles. So I can't even, so once COVID happened, and then it became like, oh, we're gonna to trust a pharmaceutical. No, that's where a lot of America was. I think a lot of people don't talk about that, but to me that was a huge link.

Starting point is 00:42:32 Um, car fentanyl. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You shouldn't be in a car. First of all, if you're in a car, it's nothing to do with being in a car, right? It's called car fentanyl. Well, then that's a strange name. It is a strange thing.

Starting point is 00:42:49 Okay, fair. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, yeah. It's so strong. It's for cars. No, it isn't that. It's a damn.

Starting point is 00:42:57 I saw, I just saw a couple of tow trucks doing, yeah, that's not what it is. Yeah. It's for elephants. They should call it something else. It's confusing. It's wild though. But yeah, those pills are insane. Can I ask, because this is intrusive, so you must feel, but you're in the fellowship.

Starting point is 00:43:14 Are you allowed to talk about that? Yeah, I mean, I was on cocaine was my deal. Yeah, I liked a little bit of cocaine and yeah, I liked cocaine, you know? Like if you would have some cocaine, then I would have some, hopefully. If I had some now, what would you say? I would say, we'll take a break, boys.

Starting point is 00:43:35 No, because you're in recovery. In recovery, no, I would say, I would look at it. I'd make sure it's cocaine. Right. And then I'd probably hand it back to you. And then a few minutes later though, here's what I would do a few minutes later, I'd say, let me look at it again.

Starting point is 00:43:46 Really? Yeah. How long are you clean? What's the term? How many days clean are you? Two years. Congrats. Yeah, thanks man.

Starting point is 00:43:54 I had a couple years and then went out and it is what it is, you know? But I never had a drinking problem, I just had a cocaine problem. Did you ever struggle with anything? I mean, if you go by what the guidebooks tell you, I probably drink too much. I drink more than you're supposed to. They say 20, is it 21? 21 beers a week?

Starting point is 00:44:08 21 units or 28. It doesn't seem like very many. You know what I mean? I mean, that's the first thing that a guy who has a problem says. No, but come on. That's like- 21 beers a week. Yeah, that isn't.

Starting point is 00:44:20 21 beers a week. That would be a good week for me. That would be a good week for me. That would be a good week for me. That would be No, but come on. That's like- 21 beers a week. Yeah, that isn't. 21 beers a week. That would be a good week for me. Okay, then that's a good, that would be maybe if England was playing in the- No, but as in like, that would be low.

Starting point is 00:44:36 Like in other words, I'll be like, oh wow, I had a great, I don't want to characterize it like, I don't have, okay, I'm sounding defensive. Check in with myself. No, I like to have a drink, you know, and I feel like I find it relaxes me. Sir, we're gonna need to see your license and registration. That's what I'm asking you for, sir, okay, I understand.

Starting point is 00:44:57 You don't drive, never drive while you're drinking. No, I think, and it's more of the culture, in the UK it's way more of the culture. Ireland is the drunkest thing I'd ever seen in my life. I couldn't believe. Did you do some shows over there? Yeah. Did you have any guests? Were you doing podcast shows? Nope, no guess. It was too much war, too much quickly moving.

Starting point is 00:45:16 They like a drink. We like it in Scotland. They like a drink in England. And there's, it's what is, what do we say about it? My wife says I drink too much. I disagree. But they have to say that. Yeah. They're taught to say that as soon as they're born. Do you think so? Your husband's going to drink too much. You tell him.

Starting point is 00:45:32 I think she eats too many crisps. Well, I think it's very fair. Which you call chips. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I would never dream of saying that to her. No.

Starting point is 00:45:41 She knows I think it. Every now and then. You can't say that. Why is she allowed to say you drink too much, but I can't say, I think it. Every now and then. You can't say that. Why is she allowed to say you drink too much, but I can't say I think you eat too many crisps? All the women are going to be like, I used to like him and now I don't like him. No, the women love you. Any woman I've mentioned you to, they absolutely love you. Oh, I appreciate that. But then they'll feel like he's coercive. He's trying to stop Nancy from eating those chips. What's his problem with Nancy eating chips? I think it's, as you get older,

Starting point is 00:46:07 do you find that you speak women's language a little better? I feel like I understand women now. Like you're more empathetic with women? You just, there's certain things you know that you don't ever say, you just should never say. 100%. Do you definitely wanna eat that? Just never say that.

Starting point is 00:46:24 You should not even look at a piece of their food. No. Or look surprised or be like, seconds. Wow. Really? Yeah. Never do that. Also, if they say, do I look good in this or in this? You say you look amazing in both.

Starting point is 00:46:40 Yeah. Right? You know all this. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I think as you get older, you just become, if you look at a senior citizen, most of them could be a man or a woman. They often evolve into the same haircut. Your gender really-

Starting point is 00:46:53 You don't seem that old. Are you imagining my wife and thinking that she looks like a senior citizen? No, I don't. Is that where your mind went? You seem healthy and your wife looks hard in my imagination. I do want to let you know that. Okay. But not, is she naked? Nothing crazy. No, no, she's very well. She's working at a library Like I did it wanted to do an anniversary present it's in a couple of weeks

Starting point is 00:47:16 I can't remember how many years it is because it's been so magical Didn't make any sense But my point is I thought I'm gonna to do it. It'll be funny if I do an AI picture of me and Nancy having a wonderful time together, celebrating our anniversary. You can put that into AI now, right? And it'll make an amazing picture. Yeah. But sometimes it's so over the top, it looks kind of funny.

Starting point is 00:47:43 So Louis and Nancy having a romantic meal to celebrate their anniversary. And it was Louis Theroux. So there was a guy who popped up in the picture and his beautiful wife, Nancy, the guy looked like me, but she looked like a 70 year old librarian. And I kept having to fiddle the search terms to make her hot, like his much younger, very attractive wife, Nancy. But I couldn't meet, I couldn't seem to get the AI to make her attractive. Yeah. So I ended up just putting in, live Tyler look alike. Ooh, that's good strong.

Starting point is 00:48:14 And that did it. I bumped a cigarette off her one night. Did you? Yeah. She seems like a nice person. She was very nice. She gave me, I think she was, yeah, she gave me half of a menthol cigarette. And I was like, yeah, I kept it. I didn't even smell it. I took a couple of hits off of it and I put it out. Yeah, I really thought that was nice of her.

Starting point is 00:48:32 It's funny how you could tell a lot. I maybe not, but you know, little encounters with people, chips passing in the night. And that was enough. You get a sense. Yeah. You get a little bit of a sense. Funny that she smokes menthol though. It shocked me. But first time I smoked a menthol, it's like, this tastes like it's good for me. Oh yeah. That's that kind of man sort of refreshing tastes like you just had washed under your arms. You're like, God, that's strong. Well, I could see a lot of black guys would smoke them when I was growing up. Yeah. But according to legend, according to a legend, I'll tell you straight up, Terry was smoking the Mitch's dude when I met him. A lot of the brothers would smoke

Starting point is 00:49:08 him. Yeah. Cause they wanted a stronger cigarette. I think black people are just a, they can, they're strong. There's just a tougher ilk. But they haven't they banned, I'm not touching that by the way, menthol. Haven't they banned menthol or not? I don't know if they banned it or not, but people are still doing it, unfortunately. And a lot of redheads will smoke them too. So when you see that sort of the, you know, if you look along the, I mean, yeah, redheads are kind of exotic, I would say, you know, if you look in the Bible, which none of them.

Starting point is 00:49:42 Not if you're in Ireland, but kind of, yeah. Yeah, there's no redheads in the Bible. For real. So. Have you really checked that? 100%. We run that up, how many gingers are in the Bible? And also, so obviously they're manmade.

Starting point is 00:49:57 I think that's safe to say. Right. Engineered. Yeah. That's interesting. I feel like, I was just gonna say, I feel like this is a good conversation, but I also feel like I've talked a lot about

Starting point is 00:50:14 kind of stereotypical gender stuff, and I feel like people might think, oh, he's made all those programs and he's been to incredible places, and that's what he's learned is so. I think they think we're just joking around and having fun. I think that's what they think. Yeah, 100%, that's what he's learned is. I think where they think we're just joking around and having fun. I think that's what they think. Yeah, 100%, that's what I think.

Starting point is 00:50:29 And, but I think there's also snippets of reality. I think when you talk with people like guys who are creatives like yourself, there's, I think even you probably surprise yourself sometimes with what's reality maybe at times and what's your imagination and the little bit of both maybe? I don't know. I don't know. My thing is I'd like to feel like I'm wise and I'd like to feel like I've gone through life and I figured something out and I've been to extraordinary places

Starting point is 00:51:00 and delved deep into human psychology and I've arrived, you know, like with some elder, so some elder wisdom, but I haven't. But I think people respect that you're on the journey, no doubt. Yes, I'm still on the journey. I think a lot of people see that. If they pitch you, they pitch you on the side of the Himalayas with the backpack on.

Starting point is 00:51:20 Thank you. And I think part of my gift, if I may put it like that, you've really seen some of my programs, that's a thrill. Where would you have seen them? I watched a new documentary, which I do want to talk about. We should shout that out. I want to talk about that. Yeah. I'm not in that one. I'm executive producer of that one. If it's the one I'm thinking of, tell them you love me on Netflix.

Starting point is 00:51:36 Tell them you love me. Oh, it was great. I mean, it's dark. It was fat. I did not see some of the turn that it took. It's extraordinary. Yeah. Can I set it up very briefly? That's all I was going to ask you. No, because I want people to go watch it because it really was good. It's on Netflix.

Starting point is 00:51:50 Yeah. It really was good. It's like a true crime kind of psychology, psychological thriller drama. You will love it. If you like true crime type of stuff, I think you will absolutely love this. In a twisty tourney, I can't believe what I'm watching kind of away. It's about a philosophy professor and a very disabled young black guy who's non-verbal and has always been assumed to have a, you know, cognitive, significant cognitive impairment. And she's a philosophy professor and she starts working with him and appears to unlock all kinds of special abilities.

Starting point is 00:52:31 And his family, the young guy Derek, his family is obviously thrilled. He starts going to college. He's having philosophical conversations with her. I don't know if he's writing poetry, but he's sort of writing essays and they have this meeting of minds.

Starting point is 00:52:48 And according to her version, they fall in love and they strike up a physical relationship. But then questions start being raised about the nature of the technique that she's using to open up his abilities, his alleged abilities, and then the abilities come under question. And his family, Derek's family start feeling actually, he doesn't have the special abilities. And this isn't a thrilling story about love across the divide, it's actually abuse. And she gets prosecuted and sent to prison.

Starting point is 00:53:22 So you're all the way along, you're trying to figure out what really happened. It's, yeah, it blew my mind because there's so many little things. Well, and one of the things that you have to know or that helps to know if you're a listener is that one of the ways that the teacher, Anna Stubblefield is her name,

Starting point is 00:53:37 that she would help Derek, because he basically at first you see him or you think of him and you think there's not a real him in there. Well, there's a... Well, I don't want to say that. No, let's not put it that way. Listen, no, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:53:52 I'm trying my best. But when you look at him, there's a him in there, but you don't know how much of him there is. And it's hard for us to see a lot of times the person that is inside sometimes of a person that has a severe physical disability. Yeah. He's there, but he's, and he just got a profound disability and you don't know the nature of

Starting point is 00:54:13 what is capable of. Right. And she starts teaching, she starts becoming, she, the facilitated, the way that they start to communicate, it's called facilitated. Facilitated communication. In essence, what happens is she's called Anna, Anna. I can't get you to say Anna, but that's how she says it. So, and Derek's mom's called Daisy.

Starting point is 00:54:39 And it becomes almost a custody battle between them. And the first inkling that something's wrong is that Anna starts saying, like, Daisy will put some meat and potatoes down and Anna will go like, well, Derek really doesn't like meat. He's a vegetarian. And his mom's like, what? And he doesn't listen and she'll put gospel music on there from a churchy family. And Anna goes like, Derek

Starting point is 00:55:06 really doesn't like gospel. He prefers classical and he likes, he drinks red wine and he prefers Cabernet and like all these sort of markers of what might be construed as sort of elite or slightly refined. Oh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, so there's this sort of class thing. And so, Day's like, what, gospel's not good enough for him anymore? Like, she feels offended. Like, the son that she's always known

Starting point is 00:55:33 is being kind of taken away from her. Right. And it's almost like a power play, like I know him better than, I'm not saying that as how Arna meets her. But that's a scene how it come across to a mother, and especially, I think, also a black mother, probably. Who's like, he'm not saying that as how on a meat. But that's a scene that would come across to a mother and especially I think also a black mother probably. Who's like, he's not gonna eat my cooking

Starting point is 00:55:49 because he's a vegetarian. Like he only eats nut cutlets now. Yeah, yeah, he only eats like short breads or whatever. He eats corn and I'm not trying to mischaracterize. Not at all, we're joking around. He only has a bouoyah base or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, he'll only be-

Starting point is 00:56:07 But she said he was a vegetarian. Yeah, and that's insane. First of all, to say that a black guy's a vegetarian is... Absolutely... Nobody's gonna believe that, dude. Name 70 black vegetarians, dude. Okay, maybe Arthur Ashe was one. But that's it.

Starting point is 00:56:23 Nobody's buying that shit. So out of the gate, the mom was like, hmm. But I think- So that's where it starts. There's a glitch and then it spins out. And then when she says, and then they have the moment where they announce to Daisy and to Derek's brother, John, that they're having a relationship. And they sit down and it's Ana and Derek sit down

Starting point is 00:56:47 with John and Daisy and say like, I don't know, I think they might've been excited to break the news. Of course. But it's a sensitive thing saying like, not only are we, because they weren't saying, do we have, I'd like permission to ask for your son's hand in marriage.

Starting point is 00:57:02 It wasn't like that, it was like, by the way we're doing it, like we're already. They said we've been shagging a bit. Yes. Basically, and we're in love. I don't think they used the term shagging, but it was along those lines.

Starting point is 00:57:14 Yeah. And, and, and I think it felt to Daisy and John, like they still had a protective, because the kids, he's not a kid. He's a young man. The young man is vulnerable, right? So they don't know, and also they don't wanna think about. Him sexual probably.

Starting point is 00:57:32 Yeah, having adventurous sexual relations like with the woman who's basically got a caretaking role. Right. And it's a professional relationship. It's a complicated power dynamic. So the brother John, he's so shocked he goes and throws up. He's like, he cuts him to the, like to the soul, like he feels so confused and befuddled by the relationship.

Starting point is 00:58:01 I mean, a lot of it is just also the awkwardness of, you know, the bigger conversation is race. Well, I was going to say disability. Oh, okay. Is that people who are very disabled, I say very, but people who have, who like can't walk and in fact maybe can't actually feed themselves or who have, who need round the clock assistance with day-to-day life and may have like real cognitive delays, like where they seem to be incapable, you know, they'll watch cartoons and enjoy life, but they're not gonna be reading books and stuff. A lot of people don't wanna think about sexual relations.

Starting point is 00:58:41 It's almost like they're infantilized and it's seen as inappropriate. That they have sexual desires. But they do, of course they do because they're full grown people, right? Just to be obvious. And especially, well, one of the things you have to let people know too, I think,

Starting point is 00:58:57 is the way that Anna, or Anna, would communicate. There's like this sort of typewriter type of contraption. It's almost like a first typewriter you would give a child to learn to do typing on. Like a speaking spell. Yeah, like a speaking spell. And she would kind of guide his hand or hold his hand

Starting point is 00:59:19 because his hand would often kind of vibrate a lot. So she would hold his hand as he would write out the different things he wanted to say. So right there, it's just such a like, who is the right, who is, is it mostly him? Is she guiding based on things she wants? Is she even unknowingly guiding based on things that she may want because there's desires inside of us?

Starting point is 00:59:42 So the allegation, the contention by the skeptics would be that, cause she had long conversations with him using that technique, a little like a Ouija board would be the other analogy. If you, you know, if you wanted to say that it was dubious and non-scientific, but the allegation would be that she was in, in essence having long conversations with herself and producing her ideal love partner, like someone who likes all the same thing. You know what I mean? Like a fan fiction, almost writing her own fan fiction or something.

Starting point is 01:00:14 Creating, and I'll leave it to people because viewers could go on the journey and figure out what they think happened, but one version of events is that she was projecting a kind of idealized version and using Derek almost as a as a prop. Like a Geppetto and a Pinocchio type. I kind of she was puppeteering. Yeah. Yeah. A real life human uses as a prop. But then it's so strange. Right. And it's certainly possible for sure.

Starting point is 01:00:46 It feels so strange to want to go spend all that time with someone. Oh, I should share. I need to mention the director, Nick Orcas-Perner, who did a brilliant job. It's great. Yeah, he's terrific. And as much as I'm taking, I'm here talking about it, I was an executive producer on it, but it was, it's his project. He did it. Bring him up. Nick Orkust-Perner.

Starting point is 01:01:09 Nick Orkust-Perner. Orkust. Let's get a picture of the man. There we go. There he is. Do Google. There he is. What a handsome man. Look at his eyes. Wow. Why would he look like that? Is he Bangladeshi you think? I think he, I don't know. I never asked. I don't think August Perna sounds like a Bangladeshi name, but I love that he's got beautiful swarthy skin and piercing blue eyes and a thick beard. I used to have a beard like that and then I got alopecia. Did you really?

Starting point is 01:01:43 Yeah, my beard fell out. Oh my God. I know. And my hair has gone thin. I have patches in my hair. That's an exclusive. I've never spoken about that on a podcast. About having alopecia? Yeah. And is it a real thing you have to deal with all the time? Well, it's always there. It's there when I look in the mirror. And if I touch my hair, I used to feel kind of thick,

Starting point is 01:02:06 lustrous locks, like gorgeous, just enjoyable. Like a bit like your hair. It's thin though, it starts to get thin. And then little holes appear. Can you see that? And my beard, it's coming back, but it's white. I feel like one of those guys who's seen a ghost and their hair goes white and falls out.

Starting point is 01:02:25 Oh, oh yeah. That sounds very like a Scooby-Doo. It's stressful. God. Yeah, does it stress you out or do you care that much? You already have a family, you have a wife already. I care a bit because I think my wife cares. And the last thing I need is to be even less attractive

Starting point is 01:02:39 to her. Yeah, have another crisp Lindsay or whatever. Exactly. Yeah. Nancy, like he's coercive. She doesn't sound like that. He's coercive and he's almost bald. He's got patches in his hair.

Starting point is 01:02:51 You need to leave him. He's no good for you, right? And that's your daughter saying that. Exactly. He's no good for you. Your wife's friends, you've got that to look forward to is like the toxic friend. Yeah. You're too good for you. Your wife's friends, you've got that to look forward to is like the toxic friend.

Starting point is 01:03:07 You're too good for him. Oh yeah, every girlfriend I've ever had has had that friend for sure and they were right. They were right. She is too good for me. You're all too good for us when it really comes down to it. She's so much better looking than I am. I'm hitting so, but I was on TV when I met her,

Starting point is 01:03:24 so it was adjusted. It was adjusted for celebrity. much better looking than I am. I'm hitting so, but I was on TV when I met her. So it was adjusted. It was adjusted for celebrity. It happens. You know what? One thing that I thought was interesting about, um, about tell them you love me. Is that right? Yeah. Was that so she kind of has the ability to guide his hand possibly, right? Or probably does some ability to guide it. She has the ability and whether she's doing it is the question right and only she kind of knows Yeah, like there's some studies in there that uh that a doctor or a scientist does it helps you get a little bit of inclination but even then you're not fully sure because some people say like

Starting point is 01:04:00 Like we're the keys to each other's locks, right? Like when we, maybe when we join hands, something more magical can happen, you know? But then also I start to think about like, like the ownership now of like social media and these bigger corporations that own a lot of the platforms that we communicate on because they can dictate if we're even allowed to say certain things.

Starting point is 01:04:27 You know, it's like you might, you might write what you really want to say, but at some point they can say, well, we understand what you'd like to say, but you're only allowed to say these things. Are you okay if we format it for that? And you have to say yes. And if you hit no, it just asked you the question again seriously I mean, I just does that happen is that real it just feels like that's very much where we're headed like They give you a certain amount of emojis. You don't get all of them

Starting point is 01:04:57 If you want to feel belittled you must you have to pay two thousand dollars a month for that emoji I just wonder if that's what you know what i saying? Like what color are you in your emojis? Like when you, you know, the smiley face, did you opt for the white one? Cause I'm sticking with yellow and increasingly, I wonder if it's very Asian. It's a bold choice. A lot of Asians would be upset about it too.

Starting point is 01:05:18 Would they though? Because it's a bright, puce yellow. It's no yellow that's found in the human condition. I would agree with you. What emoji, because you know there's a certain point where the first time you use a reaction, it gives you a choice. So now you have a dilemma.

Starting point is 01:05:36 Do I go white? Do I go off white? Do I go beige? I think it depends on what neighborhood I'm driving through at the time sometimes. Really? Oh yeah, because I'll be like, you know, this is what's going on around here. And you're half Nicaraguan, so you must, did you go white or off white?

Starting point is 01:05:53 I'll go off white. I'll go Middle Eastern sometimes. So you keep choosing different ones? Oh yeah, I'll throw a sand brother out there, dude. Yeah, I'll do it all, man. Because you got to keep people on the edge. I mean, I even choose the pregnant guy nowadays. You know, it's like, what are we even fucking doing?

Starting point is 01:06:11 Is there a pregnant guy? There's a fucking pregnant guy. What are we doing? They're trying to legalize all that, you know, but do you worry about that, about like censorship and what will be allowed? I've said this before but it's like it used to be like you wrote on the paper right and now you can still write on the paper but what if the piece of paper yes you can but what if the paper what if they own what if I think I got shadow banned I don't know what for well here you go I don't

Starting point is 01:06:40 know what for either that or it's so boring that they were like, we gotta stop putting, we gotta, he's making the platform look bad. His tweets are so banal, just dial them right down. He's making everyone, you know, when I did Joe Rogan's podcast, I did it twice. And when he moved to Spotify, do you remember that big deal? And they gave him like 10,000 million, whatever dollars.

Starting point is 01:07:03 Yeah. And, and, and some of them, they took off, like they took some episodes. They took one of yours off? So they took the most contentious, like these are too, we can't put this on Spotify. This is too inflammatory. And one of mine was taken off. But I think it was taken off because I was so boring. I just can't because I said it's nothing.

Starting point is 01:07:28 But I loved that I might be too spicy. And I was like, they've taken me down. You know, like I've been made, they canceled me. But it was, I think it was the first time I did Rogan, I didn't know how big he was. And you know how he kind of plays a reactive game? Like in other words, he doesn't go on and say like, I've watched all your programs. I was gonna Like in other words, he doesn't go on and say like, I've watched all your programs.

Starting point is 01:07:46 I'm gonna do an English accent, I don't know why. Here's Joe Rogan. I've watched all your programs and I've done a lot of research and he's more like, hey, welcome, how's it going? And I was like, I'm very reactive as well. So it was kind of like, how are you doing? I'm like, good, how are you doing?

Starting point is 01:08:02 Good. And then it was like two hours went by and it kind of got into a groove a bit. Yeah. I mean, it's probably fine. I haven't got- I listened to it. The one I listened to, I thought was fine.

Starting point is 01:08:14 That was good. The second one I went back and I was like, oh, I get it. Maybe that was it. Yeah, the second one was fine. So I'm quite glad that they, but your point was about, so yeah, I think they shadow banned me on

Starting point is 01:08:25 Twitter. I can't prove it. Instagram, I'm okay. I can put a picture of my, I could just, I can take, I could just do a selfie and put it on, on Instagram and it goes viral. I don't know why, but you know, if I say I've got alopecia and I'm feeling sad, you know, like cynical, what do they call that? I'll put three black dude emojis in there if you say that, just to spice things up. You think that would make a difference? Oh yeah, dude. You bring a brother in, it adds some heat to the situation.

Starting point is 01:08:56 Because I've listened to your content and you go close to the line. I'm like, I better check out how, like what's the closest Theo's got to being canceled. Some of it. But you've never been canceled., but you've never been canceled No, I've never been can't you know, like I don't know like I think a lot of times I'm kind of like just having a good time in a free pass I think because you're a comedian and people are like he's just having he's goofing around and you're like people know I feel like a lot of times like you're saying

Starting point is 01:09:20 Even just running in a Liv Tyler for 30 seconds and getting a menthol offer You sometimes can know where people. But didn't you used to work out with David Duke? They're harder at. Yeah. And yeah, we just, all we did was fitness, dude. Did you like, what's it called? Did you spot him? Is that the term? Does that mean something? I don't know if it means anything beyond the fact that you're right there assisting him in that moment. Would you be like, Hey, Theo, would you spot me? Would you, what could he bench? He was strong.

Starting point is 01:09:50 Was he? He was strong. I mean, he- Did you try and be, were you trying to be a positive influence on him or would that, would that have been inappropriate? No, I was using steroids. I think at the time time. I was just trying to fricking be jacked out there, dude. I was trying to flirt with this chick, dude. His girl was so, she was just a gorgeous. She didn't do anything at the restaurant. Like, she worked there,

Starting point is 01:10:13 but I don't even know if she knew what her job was. She was just so pretty, people would just do everything for her, you know? Like one of those maidens or whatever, you know? Did you, but did you, you would have been what, 1920? Yeah. Did you, and you knew he was like politically... Well, I'd seen, they used to have signs in Louisiana. It was David Duke versus

Starting point is 01:10:31 Edwin Edwards, and he was a famed, his story, a famed political figure in Louisiana who had stolen tons of money, like most of them. And his, the campaign slogan was don't vote for the racist, vote for the crook. Those were the posters. So you knew- I'm surprised he authorized that. But I think people would rather be stolen from, at the time people would rather be stolen from than have a little bit of racism be going on. But Duke got a majority of the white vote. He might have done okay.

Starting point is 01:11:03 Yeah. I don't remember. That's a good question. What was the runoff vote between David Duke or the David Duke and Edward Edwards? Well, first of all, Duke, he got the whatever, was it the Republican nomination? Like he ran for Senate.

Starting point is 01:11:16 Did he really? Yeah, and then got the majority of the white vote in the race in the final. When I knew him, he was just doing chest and tries, you know, like that's what he was doing. Was he? Yeah. I don't even know. Yeah. How do you, yeah, I'm trying to work out and be, I'm trying to get more hench.

Starting point is 01:11:31 As you get older, you lose muscle mass. I know that's scary about being alive. I want to be attractive for my wife. Oh, Nancy. Oh, Nancy. What does it say? Does it, I can't, I can't even read that, but basically, oh, was he the Democrat? No. In 75 he lost to Kenneth Osterberger.

Starting point is 01:11:49 In 79 he- Look, he was the Republican, Bennett Johnson. What is that? He was the incumbent. He got 40, Duke got 43% to 53. Yeah, not bad. United States Senate election. I mean, that's wild.

Starting point is 01:12:04 I don't know if at that time was he still that guy though? I don't, he may have been. He was. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of old, there's a lot of racism in the South, you know, and there's a lot of racism that goes both ways in the South too. There's a lot of black folks that do not like white people. For real. Tons dude. Tons. It always gets looked at as the other way only, but there's a lot of...

Starting point is 01:12:30 But they're making up for lost time. I agree that there's some of that in there for sure. They're like... I agree. We've got to get Simone back. The documentary's called...no. One of the tough things you have in now is there's so much crime in a lot of the black communities and it's

Starting point is 01:12:48 very unfortunate I've made documentaries about gangster rap yeah I made a couple and one was in well I wish they were just rapping unfortunately a lot of these men are shooting each other and killing yeah it's rapping seems like the only man two of my good friends have died my black friends have died from the only part of show business where have died from being killed. It's the only part of show business where like... Died from being killed, obviously, but sorry, died from just miscellaneous other men shooting them for no reason. It seems like it's the only branch of show business where actually killing someone is

Starting point is 01:13:16 not necessarily a career ender. Right? Rap music? That's a good call. Right? Because you look at Gucci Mane, he killed someone. They said, yeah, well, it was self-defense and no one really minded. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:33 Well, what's his name? Just shot, killed someone at a Walmart not long ago. Who was that? Alec Baldwin? Huh? Again? That would be like, okay. No, that's hilarious, dude.

Starting point is 01:13:44 Thank you for that. That's hilarious, dude. Thank you for that. That was awesome, dude. Alec Baldwin. Every week he's fucking shooting somebody. He wasn't even shooting a movie. Come on, he just fucking... And I think that's his defense.

Starting point is 01:14:00 He's like, I thought we were shooting a movie. Come on, That's crazy. That's too much. I love how he's on trial for this. They gave him a gun. Yeah. He fucking shoots it. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:12 And the person who gave it to him, it's just the whole thing is just bad news. But yeah, somebody just killed somebody at a Walmart and they're getting off. Oh, DaBaby did. Yeah, DaBaby. Yeah. And I heard he was in the adult section.

Starting point is 01:14:23 That's the crazy part. Okay, that's enough of that. There we go. I was going to say though- It's a great documentary that you made. Yeah, and the truth is, one of the things that his mom, Daisy, says at the end is like, but now he still hasn't recovered. He masturbates.

Starting point is 01:14:44 And she basically blames Anna for the fact that Getting him started. She's caught Derek jacking off and you're thinking like, he's a 35 year old man living at home. What kind of world is she living in that she thinks that's pathological? Do you know what I mean? Right. Like what else would he be doing at home in his bedroom by himself all day with no girlfriend? Yeah. I just put two extra Ottomans in the middle of the room and let him figure it out,

Starting point is 01:15:17 to be honest with you. That's what a lot of kids need if he's at that stage in his wellbeing. Or send in, I don't know if this is like considered kosher or not, but aren't there nurses who can do that? And by the way, a nurse can be a man or a woman, but aren't there nurses that can go in and isn't that part of therapy? Like that you would be allowed, like someone would- Do a milking of them. Yeah. Yeah. I don't see how that's not a service, right? You can get, Oh dude, you can get somebody to deliver you like a damn power tools at midnight, but I can't get somebody to come over and relieve my cousin Ricky or something at two, two in the afternoon. I totally agree with you though.

Starting point is 01:16:03 In Holland, you know how Holland's ahead on all this stuff? They do that I think in Belgium probably. Bring that up if anybody's milking. I don't know what the term is really. If some people are exasperating the... I think it's called... There is a word for it. There's a polite word. There's a kind of medical word that makes it sound okay. Something very British, yeah. If people are... There is a word for, there's a polite word. There's a kind of medical word that makes it sound okay. Something very British, yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:27 If people are- Yeah, manual relief or assisted ejaculation. Assisted ejaculation, bring that up. Actually, no, that's gonna fucking- And I'm 22 days off of pornography right now, so. Are you? Oh, thank you. Thank God. Longest I've been in a long time.

Starting point is 01:16:46 How does that feel? And you're in a hotel too. Where are you in a B&B? I'm in a hotel. Oh, yeah. Doesn't matter what kind of place I'm in, I'll bust. Really? Yeah, but I haven't been.

Starting point is 01:16:59 Why not? 22 days off of masturbation, something like that, and off of pornography. I just have gotten into this other program. I have a kind of a per- I got a check-in and make sure just like, I just don't want to do it anymore. I wasn't having a problem with it, but it just had been a long part of my life where it's like, oh, this is habitual and I don't like it. How does it make you feel not doing it?

Starting point is 01:17:22 It makes me feel more empowered and it makes me feel proud Like a little bit. There's a part of me that makes me feel proud of myself that crazy You could get a bumper sticker or something I wonder the best way of honoring that like a little like I was a like a little too hard Proudly what is it proudly 50 daysoudly 50 days non-jacking off. What would be, yeah, is there a support group for that? There are. There is, yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:52 Cause a lot of it's just about like, just making sure you're not looking at pornography. I just want that stuff influencing my thoughts and feelings. Cause then you start to like, whenever- It intrudes into daily life. 100%. Well, when you're engaged in sex, you think of it in like frames of shot.

Starting point is 01:18:06 You're not even involved in like a real connection with someone, you know? And after years of that and stuff, it's just for me, it was really unhealthy. So what are your vices now then? Vaping probably, drawing pictures of tits a lot of times. Like if I'm sitting around and I'm with a napkin or something, I notice I'll just look down and suddenly there's like six or seven sets of breasts or whatever, tits or whatever. Some people call them tits. I call them that. What else? Having some chocolates probably.

Starting point is 01:18:35 You don't drink at all. What about, are you California sober? You know that term. Yeah. You can still smoke pot. Yeah. And take mushrooms too. No, I've done like the micro dosing or whatever. And've done ayahuasca, you know view and that's really fascinating That's fascinating. Did you want to see something you never thought could happen on earth? Go try that. It's like getting abducted by aliens. It's almost as crazy as that. I'm scared You've never been abducted by aliens. I don't know Which is I think any good man should answer, Louis.

Starting point is 01:19:08 Right, it's possible. I'm a little scared of the Ayahuasca because the people I've spoken to, they're like, yeah, it is really heavy. And they'll say, and the person next to me, they were like, it was a pretty good trip, but the person next to me was screaming and thought they were dying.

Starting point is 01:19:24 So that kind of harsher my mellow a little bit. And I'm thinking I might be that guy. Yeah, that person could have also just been Scottish as well, you know, because I know they can get very verbose at times. Yeah, the Scots. Well, the whole thing is fascinating to me about the British. No, I think you would love it, man. Did we get anything on car fentanyl? 10,000 times more powerful than morphine,

Starting point is 01:19:48 a hundred times more potent than fentanyl. I told you, the presence of car fentanyl in illicit US drug markets is cause for concern as and that's the nice thing. If you're going to do cocaine, come to England. What's the look at the chemical formula is C24H20N203. I mean. Look up a little bit more, Carl Fenn. I'll go to Wikipedia right there. Who would, you would just have to walk past it.

Starting point is 01:20:15 Effects and side effects in humans are similar to those of other opioids and include euphoria, relaxation, pain relief, pupil constriction, sedation, slowed heart rate, low blood pressure, lower body temperature. You know, a lot of people choke to death when they take these drugs because they then they're on it. They think they're okay.

Starting point is 01:20:33 They eat the muscles in their throat don't work. Right. And then they choke. And they choke to death. So you just imagine you're having a piece of chicken and you love it. And you can't swallow it. You tried to swallow it, you did the normal,

Starting point is 01:20:49 oop, and your fucking neck breaks down. That's hideous. You wouldn't think you'd be that hungry. You know what I mean? Like, it's like I'm higher than I've ever been, but what I really want is a chicken sandwich. Seems a strange, you know what I mean? Yeah, it really does.

Starting point is 01:21:11 Like I'm still not happy. Yeah. I don't know. No, I think, yeah, that's a very, but every now and then you'll be shocked sometimes when you'll try to do some food when you're on, you know, just surprised you like, Oh, I didn't expect, that's the worst, I remember I'd be all coked up or something and make a nice meal and then I'd wanna eat it,

Starting point is 01:21:30 just fucking do more drugs. But it's exciting being on Netflix with the doc, and for us, like, it took us six years to make this. I mean, that was just, and I joined Nick, like Nick had already been, the director had already been making it for a couple of years. Wow. So like it's an eight, nine year journey and to finally land

Starting point is 01:21:51 it, not just in the UK, cause it came out here first, but on a big stream of like Netflix feels big for us, feels like a thrill. You've got your specials on Netflix. They're the big game, they're the big game in town now. Yeah, they're good. It's definitely, you have a good experience with them. Yeah, I think so.

Starting point is 01:22:09 Well, they actually made us, they told the fans like that were coming to shoot at the, at the comedy special, the last one that they had to have COVID vaccinations, like the day, like literally three days before last time. So, or maybe even no joke, two days before. And I thought that that was kind of fucking weird. Yeah. You know? So everyone, so it wasn't enough that you get tested, you actually had to get vaxxed.

Starting point is 01:22:33 Right. For real. And so that made a lot of people be like, fuck them, you know? Yeah. I mean, people love Netflix, but at the same, because we're addicted to it, but at the same time I think people, there's, well, here's one of the things I noticed personally, like, so I went to the last Blockbuster, did you ever have Blockbuster videos here?

Starting point is 01:22:50 Of course. Beautiful places, right? Yeah, I used to use it a lot. That was Netflix before Netflix. 100%, and it's still functioning, you can go in there, it looks just like the ones you used to have, there's a kind of disgruntled person behind the desk. One thing I noticed about that Blockbuster is, the autonomy you have when you're,

Starting point is 01:23:06 I don't know if autonomy is a word, but the amount of just you, when you're walking around looking, there's so many options of things to look at and see. You're like, oh, I forgot about this. I'd love to see this. Look at this, what about this? Whereas once you get onto one of the streamers,

Starting point is 01:23:21 it's really only what they want you to see. Like- You have to, unless you know exactly what you're looking for. Right. But before, but it's so hard for our brain to keep all that catalog. So for them to have all that catalog,

Starting point is 01:23:33 but you don't really get to peruse it really. It was a total different experience like, and the joy you felt kind of finding something a little bit physically like, oh, let's watch this. And things you never even thought existed anymore. So then you kind of get channeled into only what is happening now in a way. So I think it's also going to be tougher for movies to become classics or like build up that indie fervor sometimes.

Starting point is 01:24:01 You're definitely a victim of the algorithm. And that's a soft kind of influence. It's not censorship, obviously, but what it is, is a kind of curating of your experience. Obviously they want you to watch as much as possible. So they don't want to feed you things you don't like. Yeah. But it keeps you in your lane a little bit is the risk. Yeah. But maybe they'll have like, when they get further

Starting point is 01:24:21 along with things like VR You will be able to kind of go inside the TV, right and look around on the shelves That would be don't you think? You would hope that that's what they're headed towards because yeah, just that experience was so it just brought me back to oh I have some say in what I choose whereas this felt like I don't have as much say. But I was one of those guys who would rent something and then weeks would go by and I would still not have watched it. I think I had Blade Runner for like three weeks. Everyone did. That'll get, that gets expensive.

Starting point is 01:24:57 Oh yeah, it would stack up and you'd be embarrassed taking it back. Yeah. And you'd say, give me a, come on, give me a break. And sometimes they would bring it down a little bit. Sometimes they give you some snowcaps or something like I need a fucking financial break here But you remember like when they you're probably too young But when videos first came along and it was a new technology it was kind of like before blockbuster Everyone everyone thought I could make money with it So you would pop into the dry cleaners and then have a little video section or the 7-Eleven or like the local candy shop, right?

Starting point is 01:25:31 And they'd have a little like 15 video library. You know what I mean? I didn't even know that. Yeah, it was weird. That's awesome. And then there was a winnowing and they're like, you know, we should, this is ridiculous. We need to have some place that just does that.

Starting point is 01:25:45 We had a place called Pat's Shrimp and Video and you could get you a pound of shrimp and get you a movie over there. In Covington. Yeah, it was nice to get you a little bit of shrimp, get you a little film or something. You know what you'll find over here is that I think the chocolate's a little bit better.

Starting point is 01:25:59 100%. And if you go in, no disrespect, and maybe they're one of the sponsors, but Hershey's chocolate I'm not a big fan of. neither honestly and I'll say that out loud. Yeah, come on. Fuck those guys Well, it's just shit chocolate. What are you fucking making for people? I think I Actually think and you can check this they could not legally sell that as chocolate in the EU Wow, because they'd be like there's not enough chocolate in the chocolate Right. I'm serious. Oh 100% you know, because the cocoa content would be they'd be like, there's not enough chocolate in the chocolate.

Starting point is 01:26:25 Right, I'm serious. Oh, a hundred percent. You know, because the cocoa content would be, they'd be like, this is Vege-a-let. We can call it Vege-a-let. If you want to call it Hershey's Vege-a-let, but we can't call it chocolate. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:35 Because it tastes, it's very sweet, but it doesn't have the richness. Yeah, like we can call it African-American butter if you want, you know? And like, well, it doesn't need to be racialized. We just need it to be you want, you know? And like, well, it doesn't need to be racialized. We just need it to be actual chocolate, you know? You would think though also in America that has had a lot of history with African-Americans,

Starting point is 01:26:52 you think at least they would put the appropriate amount of African-American in the chocolate, dude. That's the kind of shit that pisses me off. Hershey's lawsuit sparked British revolt for superior Cadbury chocolate. But I will say this, when you walk into some of the chocolatiers that are in Britain,

Starting point is 01:27:11 it feels like you are. Oh yeah. It feels regal, it feels royal, it feels real. It feels imperial. And if you go to Belgium, forget about it. Really? Yes. I mean, it's ridiculous.

Starting point is 01:27:22 Like it's actually, it's like being in Tiffany's, like a jewelry store. It's so redolent of class and kind of gourmet values. And the things are exquisite. Like, they just make beautiful objects out of the chocolate. Presentations, yeah. The presentation is off the scale. Yeah, we have it.

Starting point is 01:27:43 Have you tried Revels? Do you know what? Try some Revels? Do you know what? Try some Revels while you're over here. Is it good? It's a mixture of different, I just like, you don't know what you're gonna get when you put your hand in.

Starting point is 01:27:53 And then they used to have, like they have a raisin one, like a crunchy honeycomb one, there'd be an orange one, a coffee one, and they used to have a peanut one. And then they had to, they had to, they discontinued that because of the allergy issues. Yeah. But those people, we don't need them on earth, I think.

Starting point is 01:28:12 People would say that the joke was like, you know, people with allergies would use it like it was Russian roulette. Oh, I love that. I don't know if this is going to kill me or not. The thrill. I don't know if anyone actually would do that, but a little part, I'm not not gonna be the guy who's like,

Starting point is 01:28:27 is health and safety gone mad? I mean, we don't want people to die from eating a chocolate, but a little part of me was like, so we can't have fucking peanut revels anymore, just because. That's a huge part. I think at a certain point, you have to go with the status quo.

Starting point is 01:28:42 I was in a movie theater once, and I think I I had my, I think I had pick and mix. You know what that is? Okay, you just select different sweets and candies, you know, a bit of them, bit of them, but you make your own bag. Okay.

Starting point is 01:28:58 I was like, this is gonna be, and I sat down to eat the sweets and the woman in front of me says, sorry, just to say, my son has a peanut allergy, so if you wouldn't eat any of your sweets, I'd appreciate it. What? So of course I'm like, oh, of course, yeah, not a problem.

Starting point is 01:29:18 I don't want someone to die because of me in the theater, but I was also thinking like, what, I can't eat my sweets. Yeah, dude, that's incredible. Who do they think you are? John Wilkes Booth or something? It's not your fucking responsibility to keep this kid alive. It's her responsibility.

Starting point is 01:29:38 What if I go and sit over there? Nope. No, that's not good enough. Okay. Dude, yeah, that kind of stuff just- You know what I did? And we can cut this bit out. No, we'll not good enough. Okay. Dude. Yeah. That kind of stuff. You know what I did? And we can cut this bit out. No, we'll keep it in. I went to the far away in the theater and then I ate them.

Starting point is 01:29:53 Yeah. And did part of you eat them out of spite almost in a bit? Of course. No, I ate them because I wanted to eat them. Yeah. But some of you with each one, you were like, oh, that little motherfucker couldn't handle these. Yeah. You're just firing them over towards him. Let me think about what else. Oh, do you think, what's on your mind these days, like what's something when you think about? I've got a podcast on Spotify.

Starting point is 01:30:18 I went the Rogan route. Are you on Spotify? Yes. Are you? Well, you're only on Spotify. No, I don't. I don't have a deal. But they can put you on there. Yeah. And they don't pay you? Yes. Are you? But you're only on Spotify. No, I don't. I don't own. I don't have a deal. But they can put you on there. Yeah. And they don't pay you. Nope. Wow. I know you're making it

Starting point is 01:30:30 sound like a horrible situation, but we are, but we just put it on there just to be everywhere. Yeah. You're not a Spotify pod. I'm a Spotify podcast. Oh, nice. The Louis Theroux podcast. Um, so I've been doing that. Um, and then I've got new shows coming up. I've got stuff that's on. Oh, I mean, my big thing is I diversified. So I started making more stuff behind the scenes. So I've got a series. Do you remember the challenger, um, explosion? Yeah. A lot of people said those people are still alive recently. Where are they? Where would they be?

Starting point is 01:31:04 Bring some of that up. People have been saying that. Can you say? Huh? Where would they be? Bring some of that up. People have been saying that. Can you say challenger, people still alive? We did all... Do you have... Is this what yours is about? It's not about...

Starting point is 01:31:13 According to us, they're dead. According to our research, did I say challenger? I meant Columbia. Okay, Columbia. Sorry. I fucked up. Columbia is the one that was in 2001. Oh yeah, those people are dead. The Challenger people I think are alive though.

Starting point is 01:31:31 Challenger is the one that exploded on takeoff. Columbia exploded on re-entry. No. Yeah, and not only that, they had, I wouldn't say they knew, but they had an inkling that something might go wrong. And they decided not to tell the astronauts. No. And so the big, the question at the heart of it is what, what could they have done differently? Um, could they have sent another rocket up and taken, uh, take, you know,

Starting point is 01:32:00 taken the people out in a space walk and bring them back home, you know, in, in, in the other rocket, like send up a Russian rocket. Right. Could they have fixed it, done a spacewalk and fix the bit that they thought might be damaged? Um, so there's a lot of questions around how it could have been handled.

Starting point is 01:32:17 So that, so I w actually, I wasn't an exec on it, but my company made that we're very proud of that series. Wow. Uh, and then we've got one about Lockerbie and it's, We do a lot of heavy stuff. Do you know what Lockerbie is? Lockerbie, that's not the Loch Ness Monster, is it? No, but it is in Scotland. It was a village and a plane, it was a Pan Am plane that was flying from London to New York, I believe, and had a lot of American and British people on it,

Starting point is 01:32:43 including a whole bunch of students from Syracuse university, I believe. And it was bombed and there's a lot of conspiracy theories around that or theories as to what happened. So we made a four-part documentary that one's going to be on CNN. So anyway, I've been making a ton of different, and it's a, do you do any behind the scenes stuff? Like, do you have people you're mentoring or do you have like a production? No, right now we've just been doing this sort of thing. I would like to sometimes I think about doing some different like I've had just some thoughts about stuff. Like sometimes maybe about like Alzheimer's learning about that maybe.

Starting point is 01:33:22 I made a documentary about that. That's an interesting, yeah, it was called Extreme Love Dementia and about the ways, yeah, it's about how we can best look after people with dementia, yeah. A lot of them are very happy, like not to sound weird. No, I think it's fine if they think they're younger, a child or whatever, you know, I don't know, but it's just about making them okay and comfortable. you know? Yeah, you just got to let them be them. I mean, that sounds a bit

Starting point is 01:33:48 glib, but you know, if they say one of them was a doctor, no, he was a dentist, and he was in this memory support facility in Phoenix, Arizona, surrounded by nurses and other very old people and fairly old people. and he'd been a military dentist and he was like, I'm on this base, I'm a dentist, I'm doing something dental, I know that. I'm like, really? You don't, you mustn't contradict them because that creates distress. Oh, confusion. You're like, okay, and then you change the subject. So he thought he was still working as a dentist fixing people's teeth and if he was distressed, you would say to him,

Starting point is 01:34:26 um, Hey Gary, would you mind taking a look at my teeth? And then he'd do like, he'd do a dental inspection and then he'd forget what was bothering him. So look, he's this, in this bit, we can see he's trying to get out. He's like, I want to leave.

Starting point is 01:34:39 I want to go through this door, but it says push and the alarm will sound and he's getting agitated and then I'm like, Hey, Gary, here we go. You're always going to be an Indian. Would you take a quick look at my teeth? Yes, sir. I would. They're not very clean.

Starting point is 01:34:55 No. Well, I know you're a bread. Yeah. You guys don't clean your teeth like me. I know. Why down, please? You got good occlusion. And now he's fine. I know. Lie down please.

Starting point is 01:35:07 You got good occlusion. And now he's fine. You could know you're a cross white back there. Oh, yeah. Well, I wouldn't do anything about it because it's not gonna hurt you now. Oh, he might be, yeah. It sounds like somebody that's checking in on animals too. Like he could be breeding dogs or whatever.

Starting point is 01:35:21 Some of the commentary he gave there. But the point being, he's happy and he's living in his own world. He's in a fictional reality of his own memories. And it's kind of amazing. I wanted to do something called like children of the porn. It was like children that were conceived on pornography sets during the shootings.

Starting point is 01:35:41 I think that's not many though, do you think? I think you gotta get at least seven or eight of them. You only need a decent batch. Hard to prove as well because if you're a working porn performer, you're going to be doing at least three or four scenes a week, maybe more. Maybe not during a strike season, maybe if you went and looked during a strike possibly. During a scare when it's like someone tests positive and they shut down. So there were only a couple of shoots

Starting point is 01:36:07 that year of that month. And if you, I don't know, just something that I thought about. Have you got an OnlyFans? No, I don't. I don't have it and I'm glad I don't. What else did I think about? Oh, morning sex, maybe a documentary about that.

Starting point is 01:36:21 How did we get here? Like sex because you're bereaved and you're in mourning? No, mourning sex. No, you're talking about like funeral, like post-funeral sex or whatever. I can't get out of my grief. Yeah, like- Or more, but you mean sex in the morning?

Starting point is 01:36:38 In the morning, yeah. What's the angle? I just think, I don't care what it is. It's just probably just, I think fucking somebody right after they woke up is pretty sick I think you know, I can as in good. No Cuz sick means good. Oh, yeah. Well, I think it just no it went back now. It's bad again. Yeah Anyway, I'm coasting out of that all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty old

Starting point is 01:37:02 Well, I think it just had also you part of you loses interest in some of that. Yeah. I'm pretty old. Well, I think it just had also you part of you loses interest in some of that. Yeah. I'm on the other side of the hill. Yeah. Well, your penis, you've done all the tricks you can do with it. I'm just trying to stay alive. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm retreating. You know what I like? Gradually, everything is it's about we just need to focus on getting to the next day. Yeah. Do you feel accomplished? Yeah. You're not supposed to say yes, but I do. I do because- It's a really cool thing to say.

Starting point is 01:37:36 I think it's important. I don't think I, you know, people have done way more obviously stuff than me, but because I've been so lucky with the career that I've had and I think maybe because of that when I came along, it was like there was various things happening in TV and documentaries and it was kind of like it just there was an opening like there was no one who done kind of like well, there just wasn't that guy. He's kind of a little bit cerebral, but he likes to joke around and he's curious about

Starting point is 01:38:11 this and he's a good listener. And then the BBC gave me like, they just keep making those programs and they didn't really even check up on me. And suddenly like 15 years went by and I'd made 50 programs. And I basically, I'd covered everything. I mean, there's still stuff out there, but there's so much I've covered. I've done a prison, I've done jails,

Starting point is 01:38:31 I've done a maximum security mental hospital for pedophiles. I've done most of the high crime areas, like I say most of, but I've done Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Johannesburg, Lagos. I've covered so much. I feel like I've had this huge privilege, this gift, and it's pretty cool. I don't want that to sound weird. I don't think it does, no, no, no.

Starting point is 01:38:57 Well, it's just a lot of times, especially I think in the US, we don't feel that you never hear someone talk about, okay, I feel accomplished. But you know- It's always just like this never ending thing that is- But I'm trying to make myself okay with slowing down as well. Obviously by one metric, no, like I'm not, you know, I grew up in a household where we valued Shakespeare.

Starting point is 01:39:21 Me again, welcome back. And so for me, I accomplished, my dad's a writer. Yeah. He's a travel writer. He lives in Hawaii and also Cape Cod in the summer. And he's written like 60 or 70 novels and travel books. Like he's off the charts accomplished. So, and the people we looked up to when I was growing up, people like, um,

Starting point is 01:39:47 you know, just great literary figures like James Joyce or F. Scott Fitzgerald. John Irving. John Irving. He wouldn't have been, he would have been too close in age to my dad. So my dad would have probably, I never read

Starting point is 01:40:00 John Irving, but if it was, let's say Hemingway or, um, Faulkner, right? Thinking of mentioning a Southern writer. Do you know who Charles Portis is? He wrote True Grit. Oh, wow. And he was from, I believe Little Rock, Arkansas.

Starting point is 01:40:15 He's a Southerner and he's dead now. Brilliant writer. He, everything he wrote is a kind of classic of a kind. So he, he was a, he wasn't, he was just someone who my dad was like, you should read Charles Port is like true grits well known, but his other books are equally good, if not better.

Starting point is 01:40:32 So I read three of his books, but my point is just, and I totally recommend the one is called Norwood, another one is called the dog of the South. And, uh, so, so by, by that metric, no, I'm not accomplished because I'm not a gifted writer. I'm just a TV presenter. I'm not even really a documentary maker, really.

Starting point is 01:40:56 Like I'm not a director. I'm the guy who works with a director and we say, hey, I'd love to go to a prison. And then the team says, we'll make that happen for you. And they go and, you know, they figure out how we get in. And then we get amazing access for two, three weeks, right? Or in a cult or in the world of adult film or the far right, some far right group.

Starting point is 01:41:16 Which are the right amount of curious though. But I'm curious. And in a sense, by being a little bit scattershot, a little bit not ready for prime time, a little bit unfocused, maybe a little bit scattershot, a little bit not ready for primetime, a little bit unfocused, maybe a tiny bit, I don't know what, maybe ADHD? I'm not sure what it is. I don't want to medicalise it, but whatever that is, I get impatient, I get twitchy, and then so the people who are focused and on it can get me in there, and by dint of their work, I've created, I've been part of making these programs.

Starting point is 01:41:49 It's cool. Yeah, I've been trying to row back from saying I'm accomplished. I already regret saying that. No, I don't feel, I feel like it's, you very lightly said. I feel very lucky, yeah. You very lightly said.

Starting point is 01:41:58 Well, most people view you as extremely accomplished. So I just think it's interesting to hear your thoughts on that. The pedophilia, man, what'd you learn about it? Because now sometimes people are saying that it's the next big business or whatever. In what way? It's like the next Apple computer or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Seriously. I mean, I feel like it's like in America, there's that Nambla group. There's people trying to legalize it. They're saying that the Romans used to did it. Yeah, Romans did it. Greeks, I think famously was Greeks, wasn't it? And they said that was normal in those days. And then there was Nambla. I remember seeing a documentary,

Starting point is 01:42:36 when I was coming up, I used to live in New York and there was a place called Kim's Video, talking about Blockbuster. Kim's was like, it was way beyond Blockbuster. They had everything and they had every kind of film and they were organized by director. They'd be Kurosawa, Spielberg, Jean Renoir, like some obscure stuff that you wouldn't see anywhere else. You know, go into Blockbuster and say, where's your Kurosawa section? They'd be like, you know, oh, sorry, we. We'll give you some snowcaps. But Kim's had everything. And in the nineties, when I was coming up, I

Starting point is 01:43:13 was working as a print journalist and you'd go down to Kim's and it was like an education in film. And they had a documentary section that had incredible, like one film they had that I want to mention, you may even have seen it was called Dream Deceivers. Have you heard about it? And it was about two kids who listened to a lot of, um, is it black Sabbath? No, Judas Priest.

Starting point is 01:43:33 And they had a song called suicide solution. And the two kids decide like, uh, they think the lyrics are saying suicide solution, just do it. And so they're like, yeah, we need to commit suicide. I know it's very heavy. And they kill themselves. And then one of them doesn't manage to do it, he just shoots off the lower half of his face. So he's interviewed in the documentary, but he can't really speak properly. And then Judas Priest are prosecuted by the kids' parents, I think, saying like, it's your fault,

Starting point is 01:44:12 it's because of the lyrics. And then Rob Halford from Judas Priest is on the witness stand explaining like, it's not, you know, we just made a song. He's from Birmingham, isn't he? So we just made a song and it wasn't supposed to tell anyone to, I can't. You know what I'm talking about.

Starting point is 01:44:29 That's fair, yeah, that's very fair. And it's a very, and I remember seeing that and thinking, this is so fucked up. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm really curious about and it's dark and it's upsetting. And there's the kid. He's died since then. Oh man.

Starting point is 01:44:46 I gotta learn about that. We just had a group on called the Suicide Boys and they had a pact when they were young that if they didn't make it that they were gonna commit suicide. Make it as what? As white rappers. So, I mean, it was a fucking,

Starting point is 01:45:01 let's just say the deck was stacked against them. But there's some pretty good, I feel like down south there's, is it Bubba Sparks? Bubba Sparks, he was on one time. Bubba Sparks is a really neat guy. Is he still going? He had some pill addiction. He still does do some work though. He still does work some. Really? But there's a lot of, there's a lot of white rappers out of the UK now. Oh yeah. I would say white and black, very talented.

Starting point is 01:45:27 In fact, the UK drill scene. Central C. Central C, did you have him on? Central C, no. I thought about reaching out to him, but. Do it. We had Ed Sheeran and KSI and you, and I felt like it was a good.

Starting point is 01:45:39 That's a great mix. I feel like a very. I feel very flattered to be in that company. Well, I mean, I feel very flattered to be in the company. What's that? I mean, I feel very flattered to be in the company So but on the on the on the Kims because you were talking about Peter files being the next big thing in tech Which I didn't fully understand but you're gonna know if I said that exactly the next Apple product Oh, yeah, I was just saying like it's like it's become this hot thing in America It's like it just seems like they try to make it seem more norm like well

Starting point is 01:46:03 So the thing was I was gonna, was there was this documentary that, in Kim's, in the documentary section, and it was about Nambla, it's called Chickenhawk. All I was going to say on that was, so back in the day, Nambla was big. Alan Ginsberg, the poet, I'm not trying to, like, throw shade on him or whatever. No.

Starting point is 01:46:21 Brilliant beat poet, much beloved, but he was a member of Nambler, I believe you can check that. But, uh, and Howard Stern in the nineties always used to ha- you know how he would have people on who, uh, he had a clan guy who would come on and he'd make fun of him and he had a Nambler guy who would have on. So my point is just like Nambler's been around.

Starting point is 01:46:40 Chickenhawk, Men Who Love Boys. It's a very weird documentary where they spend time with a couple of guys or one guy from Nambler and they're just talking to them, figuring out what makes them tick, what's going on with them. Did you confirm the Allen Ginsberg? Yeah, let's look back and just bring up Allen Ginsberg.

Starting point is 01:46:59 I just wanna make sure they were referencing. Yeah, we don't wanna make someone part of Nambler if they're not. Well. He was their celebrity, like they had one celebrity, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Association with Nambler was a supporter and a member. Good enough. Hell yeah. He's a North American Man Boy Love Association. So was Michael Jackson in Nambler? I mean, I'm sure he definitely performed at some of their events.

Starting point is 01:47:27 You would think, yeah. Do you get it? You know what, have you ever said, like I went on Twitter and said, come on, we all know Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Like we've seen the program and even before that, like there was no shortage of evidence. Like his music's still great, obviously,

Starting point is 01:47:46 but let's not be silly, but let's not be in denial about what's happening. And you get so much comeback on Twitter, like on X from that. Does that surprise you? No, I'll say, I'm gonna tweet that as soon as we get out of here, just to remind people. Yeah, I was really surprised.'m gonna tweet that as soon as we get out of here, just to remind people.

Starting point is 01:48:05 Yeah, I was really surprised. There's people who are still like, you know, that's so shocking that you would say that about Michael. I'm like, what? Which Michael Jackson are you talking about? Yeah, dude, who are you talking about? No, but so I don't think they're trying to normalize, but my perception, I saw, when I went to Coalinga,

Starting point is 01:48:23 it's a maximum security mental hospital for sexually violent predators is the term and they go around in beige suits and it's a hospital. So they can't punish the men there, right? It's, it's a legal requirement. It's a hospital. So they're not incarcerated on the grounds of

Starting point is 01:48:41 serving a sentence. They've done at least two significant terms in prison for sexual offenses. And then two psychiatrists have said, yeah, we're not ready for you to come out. And they're like, hang on, I've done my time. What are you talking about? I've done 15 years.

Starting point is 01:48:58 And they're like, yeah, but you're mentally ill. And they're like, I'm not mentally ill. They're like, I'm just a pedophile. That's their thing. Oh, I see. Right? They're like, I'm not mentally ill. They're like, I'm just a pedophile. That's the, Oh, I see. Right. They're like, I don't have delusions. And which is obviously in a weird way is a kind of medical, arguably a psychiatric gray area. Right. Cause they're saying, I know I'm a pedophile. It's not like I'm in the, yeah. Like, Oh, I'm not a pedophile. Yeah. Or some of them are like, and I don't mean to be like, but they're like, I mean,

Starting point is 01:49:25 I, uh, cause some of them are rapists and they're like, well, but I'm a rapist. Why are you putting me in? Like, uh, but I did my time for that. And also why are you putting me in with these pedophiles? Right. And, and, and, and they're saying, I committed a crime, but that doesn't mean I can't, and like, why are you letting out murderers, but that doesn't mean I can't. And like, why are you letting out murderers,

Starting point is 01:49:47 but you won't let me out? But the argument goes like, well, because you're mentally ill according to our metrics due to being a pedophile. So anyway, so they're there and they're like, well, I'm not gonna, they're like, and if you spend long enough here and do enough treatment, we'll let you out. And they're like, no, you won't.

Starting point is 01:50:07 Oh. No, you won't. So none of them, very few of them, proportionally, are doing the treatment. But they can't be punished. So they play in jazz combos, they're playing tennis, doing art therapy, they can have porn,

Starting point is 01:50:28 they can vote, I'm gonna vote for Obama. You know what I mean? They're living lives like in, it's too strong to say country club style, but like a relatively pleasant mental facility. And everyone in there is a pedophile? Or a, they've been, or a rapist. They're predator, sexual predators. Sexually violent predator.

Starting point is 01:50:51 The term violent implies like, oh, they don't beat you up, but some of it's grooming. It's a kind of legal definition of violent. And then they play softball, they play a lot of softball. Oh wow. Now if they live stream that, people would pay to watch that. And they sell their hair.

Starting point is 01:51:07 Do you think so? I don't know. In a heartbeat. Why? Watching pedophiles play softball? It looks a lot like anyone else playing it. Yeah, but still every now and then it's gonna get a little weird

Starting point is 01:51:18 and people are like, ah, look at that. You know? People would pay. You'd be surprised, I think, at what people would pay for. I wouldn't pay for it, I don't think. I would look at the highlights or whatever if it was on sports. ESPN. It would be like on ESPN 5.

Starting point is 01:51:31 Like one of the real, you know what I mean? And lawn mower races. With the dog shows on there? Dog shows and lawn mower races. I'm saying lawn mower races like it's fringe, but that's probably mainstream. You know what I mean? And yeah, there they are.

Starting point is 01:51:46 That's the worst. Do you think this is a born sickness or a learned thing? Do you think? I would say, according to what I was told, um, a bit of both, I think, but I think there's a, a component where it's what they term a paraphilia. Like it's just, it's like, you can't actually cure it. You know, the term cure any more than any other. I was told like, it's a, like a sexual orientation,

Starting point is 01:52:13 which isn't in any way to attempt to normalize it. Because, uh, it's just the idea is like, actually, this is just something they are not even how, like something they are. So, so, and, and they need, and even like, and what they have to, and what they do is they convince themselves that there's no victims, like that the kids are okay with it. A bit like Michael Jackson, right?

Starting point is 01:52:41 My theory with Michael Jackson is that the whole time he was trying to tell us what he was, like every interview he would say like, I sleep in a bed with kids, it's love, what's wrong with that? You know, like, in other words, like he was always trying to come out. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:52:59 I was talking, in his Diane Sawyer interview or his Michael, with Martin, his Martin Bashir interview, there Bashir interview, was there an Oprah one? He just wouldn't shut up about it. Yeah, I think he had to find some way for it to let people know. He probably was a nice guy who also had this affliction. That's the craziest thing about a lot of things. It seems like you investigate a lot of the stuff you investigate. These people, it's not like thing about a lot of things. It seems like that you investigate a lot of the stuff you investigate or these people,

Starting point is 01:53:25 it's not like they're, some of them could be practicing. I think the kids took, I think it took the kids a while to realize they'd been abused as well. Yeah. They thought they were just having fun with Michael Jackson. I don't mean to sound like. No. Well, I think it's.

Starting point is 01:53:40 You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I think it all just goes to what you believe is okay. You don't know, you know what I'm saying? Like, yes, in the over, in the bigger scope of things, yes, it seems it's really messed up and we were able to see that. But at the time, if you're there and you're in it

Starting point is 01:53:55 and nobody's told you that it's bad or you haven't told anybody that it's happened. Can I tell you, I've never said this before, but I heard a theory that, you know, Michael Jackson was on an episode of The Simpsons? I didn't know that. Yeah, they pulled it. It was an uncredited guest cameo as a mentally ill man

Starting point is 01:54:13 who thinks he's Michael Jackson. Does that ring a bell? It's a really great episode. You can't see it now. They pulled it. But the theory I heard was that he agreed to be on The Simpsons on the one condition that he could spend the night with Bart Simpson. So they had to write that into the script.

Starting point is 01:54:32 No way. So in the episode, he spends the night with Bart and they stay up all night writing a song together called Happy Birthday Lisa, I think. Oh, this looks like it right here. Yeah. I don't know. But it's, uh, I feel- It was like, can I spend the night with Bart in the episode? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:54:57 But because why would he do that though? Unless he's trying to in some way normalize adults and kids spending the night together. Unless he's trying to eat that, eat my shorts, you know, or whatever. God, it's crazy. Yeah, that's what I wonder with like a lot of the Epstein stuff and stuff. It's like, are we, is there this overall master arcing thing

Starting point is 01:55:22 that's like leading us into this like depravity world. Or did people always used to behave that way? I don't know. I feel like, uh, it was always, it used to be like, you know, in this country, in the UK, we used to have page three girls and you could be 16 and be a page three girl. And you know, that's, it's arguably porn, like they're topless. They don't do it anymore. But, you know, 16 is very young. And for like to have that in your national newspaper, there's a topless 16 year old, they changed the law in around 2003. My point is just that I think in a weird way, it was more normal in the past to fail to, to fail to police

Starting point is 01:56:08 in appropriate relation. Like there was more sense of like, you know, when you look at all the Roman Polanski stuff or stuff that was happening in the sixties and seventies, I think nowadays, I almost feel like the Epstein thing is a distraction. I mean, I might be being naive. I feel like they're trying to make out, obviously he was a terrible guy, right? Who was grooming and molesting teenagers.

Starting point is 01:56:30 But I almost feel like they're trying to make it, like make us all feel like there's this VIP, and maybe there are, but I feel like it's all, most of that stuff's actually happening in play. Look at the stuff that's going on in the regular porn industry. You know what I mean? They don't really need to hide it. Yeah, that's makes sense.

Starting point is 01:56:50 Yeah. Well, it's part of it's like, yeah, it's like. Well, I think it makes it hard to make people think that, OK, the rich and elite are like on the island. I don't really. But I mean, the idea of the islands kind of appeal. Like, well, what did they write? Stalman always adds mystique. Yeah, it adds a mystique. He had a private island.

Starting point is 01:57:07 Like, what are they doing out there? What are they doing? And then people would fly out there. I think they were probably out there just eating chicken wings and, you know what I mean? Being rich. Being rich, and it was probably quite boring. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:57:22 Unless there was a group of dudes, because I've been around some real rich people and you start, you know, a lot of them do like they'll go on like these kind of sex kind of really romps and tours, nothing with. I've heard that and about some of the tech CEOs that they get together and they go to Romania or just different places. And shoot backpackers like in hostel. Oh yeah. I haven't heard that, but they would- But they hunt humans because everything else

Starting point is 01:57:46 is too tame for them at that point. Oh, I would believe it though. I'd believe that that goes on somewhere. The- Because they don't value, some people at certain levels, they don't value human life at all, I don't think. The scary part is, it's a bit like Squid Game.

Starting point is 01:58:02 If you've got like a hundred desperate people, like if they were addicted to car fentanyl or something and you said like, you're all going to be hunted. Of the hundred of you, maybe three are going to get shot and killed, but the rest of you will make a great, like a really big paycheck. You would probably not have any trouble finding guys to agree. Don't you think? I mean, in a way, it's kind of like what boxing is in a way, because they're saying like, you're going to get brain damage probably, or a lot of you are, but you'll get a great payday. And you can, until you're about 50,

Starting point is 01:58:44 you probably won't notice a lot of the side effects. I'll get a great payday. Yeah. And you can, until you're about 50, you probably won't notice a lot of the side effects. I'm not trying to be down on boxing. I've got friends who are boxers, but we all know that, you know, there's a brain, you know, brain side effects. Yeah. No, man, just interesting to think about stuff, you know?

Starting point is 01:58:57 It is. Did you ever get to meet Michael Jackson or no? I shook his hand. You did? Yeah. What did his hand feel like? Very soft. I made a film, it was the only time, I think.

Starting point is 01:59:12 You made a documentary about something about- Yeah, it was called Louis and Michael, or Louis Michael and Martin, it was around the time Martin Bashir was doing his interview and I was trying to get an interview. It's the only time I've done one where it was in search of. So, uh, I didn't get that close, but I did, I

Starting point is 01:59:33 did interview Joe. Joe was his dad. The one who he said, messed with his head, the one who, because Joe would call him all kinds of names that he, that later on people alleged that was part of why he got his surgery. Cause he would call him all kinds of names that he, that later on people alleged that was part of why he got his surgery. Cause he would call him pepper nose.

Starting point is 01:59:49 He said his nose. No, I'm not going to do an impression of Joe. That's a bridge too far. But he was, he just like, he was kind of a bully. Yeah. Then Martin Bashier got fired. He was the guy who did the interview with

Starting point is 02:00:02 lady, you know, Princess Diana. Do you know all of that? And then turned out he got it on false pretenses by forging a document. And that was why Princess Diana thought the intelligence services were snooping on her based on that. So she agreed to do an interview with Martin Bashir.

Starting point is 02:00:18 There's Majestic Magnificent. So he was Michael's personal magician. Wow, so that right there. So you could say like, what, that's the best you could do is talk to his magician, but you could also say like, well, who has a magician? That's pretty cool to have a personal magician. And, um, God, he must've been just so brokenhearted or in so much self pity. He also, and brokenhearted. Who Michael? self-pity. He also and brokenhearted who Michael

Starting point is 02:00:45 Yeah, or something just wrong deranged with him. He had to have a personal magician You know Muhammad Ali had a personal magician. Oh, he did same guy. I think or maybe Maybe it wasn't his personal. I mean I He lived with the Jacksons. It's I could never quite is this guy still alive. He dead, sadly. He was a good magician. Look at that. Do you see that? And then Joe, my thing was, I thought, I said to Joe, what's going on with Michael? The angle I went in was like, he looks like he needs help. Like he seems, he's a brilliant artist, but he seems troubled. He's taking surgery, the surgery too far,

Starting point is 02:01:30 and I don't see a healthy relationship in his life. And in fact, the relationships he did have, you know, with Lisa Marie Presley and what was the? Oh, Debbie Rowe, Debbie Rowe was the other one. Yeah. Who was, he was, she was like the receptionist for his dermatologist, Arnie Klein. I think that's right.

Starting point is 02:01:52 Anyway, I was like, what's going on? What wouldn't you like to see Michael? And this was the slightly troll like thing I did, although maybe not. I said, don't you want to see Michael happy, like settled in a consenting and happy relationship with a man or woman? And what did he say?

Starting point is 02:02:11 I think I said boyfriend, boyfriend or girlfriend. He said, boyfriend. I was like, yeah, boyfriend or girlfriend. Boyfriend and then he went off. He said, you saying Michael's gay? You saying Michael's gay now? And then they kind of went off and freaked out that I might have suggested. That he's homosexual?

Starting point is 02:02:32 That he was a gay man, that he was a homosexual man. He could have been. I think probably if he'd been able to channel his sexual energy into consenting relationships with men. They've been fine. Then it's all good. I mean, I think of some paedophiles, when you meet them, like the guys at Koalinga, they're not the most attractive men, right? What a surprise. And actually when I've met paedophiles, I've interviewed them also doing prison sentences at San Quentin. And a lot of times you feel like,

Starting point is 02:03:05 okay, these are guys who are socially maladapted, who for them like to have sex with, I don't mean to belittle it or like in any way trivialize it, but that's just an opportunity for them because children are weak and easily influenced. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, no, it does. It's yeah, it's like some people prey on women that are weak and easily influenced

Starting point is 02:03:26 Some people prey on whatever they can that's weak and easily influenced or whatever they're able to assert themselves on. Yeah It's like, you know breaking. Yeah We had a decent amount of pedophiles in our area not enough to make a softball team or anything But we certainly they certainly had a group of them around Was it known in those days we called them dirty old men, right? And it was called stranger danger and it was tell your men don't talk to strangers or they were called flashes. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 02:03:55 Do you know what that is? Oh yeah. I saw a flash once at a wine store when I was a kid. My uncle dropped me off at a wine store and a woman flashed me. Really? There's a woman. A woman? Yeah. And what did you, how old were you?

Starting point is 02:04:07 Probably 12. But I remember, and were you upset by it? I don't know. It was kind of like by some, I mean, I've had a affinity for Cabernet ever since. I know that, you know, for sure, dude. What does that mean? I don't know

Starting point is 02:04:25 It's just I remember being in this wine store And if somebody brings up a damn cabernet, I fucking get excited. Right because you were in a wine store with her Yeah, I mean she just and I just didn't and my uncle was driving me after and I told him and he went back to the Wine store to look for the lady dude. What a fucking pervert because he wanted to see. For sure He's a pervert dude his wife was on pills too What was she wearing? Just a kind of a coat or something and nothing under was she a customer in the store She worked there. I didn't look and see if she had a receipt or anything on her

Starting point is 02:04:54 I know she was not I don't think she did not seem like an employee So I think she was just somebody traveling around showing her body to children, you know, did you like it? I was pretty Well, were you confused by it? Mm was pretty. Were you confused by it? Were you upset? I don't think I was upset. I think I was like, all right. All right then. Oh well, oh well.

Starting point is 02:05:17 Hello. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know if I, you know what I felt like now that I really, I felt like I didn't know if I was supposed to do something. Like, am I supposed to do something now? And then I felt like I didn't know if I, you know what I felt like now that I really, I felt like I didn't know if I was supposed to do something. Like, am I supposed to do something now? And then I felt like I didn't respond quick enough to maybe if I was supposed to do something.

Starting point is 02:05:31 And then I felt bad about myself. A cousin of mine was, he was, this is his story to tell, but I'll tell it anyway. He was in Washington, DC, not that that matters. Oh, there was a lot of pedophiles over there. And he was, and a guy called him over to his car, there was a lot of pedophiles over there. And a guy called him over to his car, him and his friend. I guess they would have been maybe 11 or 12.

Starting point is 02:05:51 And the guy was in his car and he was exposing himself in his lap. But you know how things happen quick and it was so decontextualized. My cousin thought that he was showing him his gerbil. So he was like, oh, that's nice. Like that's cute. And then they went off. And then afterwards they were like,

Starting point is 02:06:13 hang on, that wasn't a gerbil. But you just wonder whether that was the reaction the guy was hoping for, you know, oh, that's nice. Or whether he would have preferred they were a little freaked out. Yeah, like what the fuck, they call my penis a gerbil. Yeah. In a way like that was the best reaction because I'm not, you know,

Starting point is 02:06:32 I didn't phase him. I had a guy come up to me once and he was, this was when I was 12 and it was, I was outside a WH Smith and Putney and he's like, and I used to like smiling at older people. I thought, I just thought it was supposed to do it. Yeah. And like, you know, they're nice and you're nice. And sometimes they'll give you a little bit of money. Like he's 10 P for being a good boy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. He's a butterscotch or something. Yeah. Go get yourself some sweets. And then you go, Oh, I can't take that. No. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. My family's all dead. Yeah, I would, you go and take 10, here's another 20p,

Starting point is 02:07:07 and go buy yourself some sweets. But this guy's like, I smiled at him and he said, I bet you've got a big one. I said, I still smile because I hadn't taken it in. I said, I bet you've got a big one with lots of hairs on. Oh. And I smiled and then I went off and then I was like, eh, and he was quite upset by it.

Starting point is 02:07:26 We used to have a dude, he'd give you 10 bucks, right? And he'd be like 40 feet away. He would show you his butthole and all you had to do was look at it. Yeah. And you got the $10. Isn't that amazing? That's a lot of money too.

Starting point is 02:07:40 I thought it was a crazy amount of money. We're like, come back tomorrow. How long would he be standing there for? It was just a quick like, okay. Or how did you know when he'd finished? He wasn't touching himself. He would kind of bend over and pull his buttocks apart. Yeah. And that's how he would see us and make sure that we were looking. Through your legs?

Starting point is 02:08:00 Through his legs, yeah. And we would kind of- Through his legs. He would show us his buttocks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we would kind of- Through his legs, yeah. He would show us his butt hole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it, yeah. And you'd have to just do that, and then, yeah, you got to your, you got 10 bucks. So- I had a- We had a lot of gays that would drug-induced homosexuality

Starting point is 02:08:17 in our area, and it was, they would happen behind like the rest areas along the interstate, and the men back there would get in the river back there and make out and be high on drugs. Were they doing it for the drugs or were they already gay? I think it was a mix. It was a big mix. Because it seemed like guys that maybe weren't. All that stuff's fluid, like guys in prison, right? And then you're like, well, you know, there's no gay men in prison really. I mean, they're all gay. You know, there's no straight men.

Starting point is 02:08:48 Depends on how you look. Yeah. Right? It's like, yeah, you might be in Sherwood, you know, or where did Christopher Robin live? What was that place called? Sherwood Forest. Robin Hood. Robin Hood. Yeah. You might be in the hundred acre wood. Oh, hundred acre wood. Okay. Yeah. But you might not be, you know, I don't know how to, good analogy. I can't figure it out. But the, I went to the doctor once because my bum was itchy and it was,

Starting point is 02:09:13 few weeks went by and then it was still itchy and I was like, this is weird, like I don't know, maybe there's something wrong with it. You know, you Google it and I couldn't find it. So I went to the doctor and I said, oh God, I've got a very itchy bum. And, um, he's, I think he was French, but he said, I'll take a look at it.

Starting point is 02:09:32 And then he looked at it and then that's already quite embarrassing. Oh, the worst. And then I had the strong impression that he thought there was nothing, he couldn't see anything wrong with it. So I had the strong impression he thought I was just doing it for thrills. And then what am I supposed to do about

Starting point is 02:09:48 it? He said, I can't see anything. I said, okay, well, thanks for taking a look. It was such an unsatisfactory encounter. Oh, of course. And you can't call later and be like, hey, can you let me talk to that guy again? Apologize. Yeah. I just want to say, hey, look, man, there was nothing weird because then that's weird. It's so hard to follow up. Have you ever had testicle problems where they have to look at your balls and then?

Starting point is 02:10:11 No, I had erection problems though, where they would like shoot this stuff into your wiener to see if it worked good or not. And it works immediately, but it's, but literally the guy's like with a needle, just right into your wiener. And it is harrowing dude Why did you do you know why you had that?

Starting point is 02:10:28 Just a lot of stage fright just fright from being a kid just in constant nervousness, you know, and it would just like Yeah, that was harrowing dude, so they just needed to find out that it worked they want to know that it like the inner the ballast tanks or whatever work, you know? And so they would shoot it up and you're like, oh, it works. So it's in my head, it's not in my body, you know? And was it okay after that? Yeah, it was hit or miss for a couple of years, but it got better.

Starting point is 02:10:57 Past few years, it's gotten better. Just you get older, things wear off, even like you're saying, like your desire, all of that confusion, all the fucking, you you don't know the paint comes off the car And you're like, all right. Yeah, we'll just keep driving it. Keep going Some porn performers use that you know, yeah shooting them up. Yeah, they shoot it up like cuz that works every time and it's quick Oh, I wouldn't I would hate that though, but they used to I don't think they do I think now the porn industry is so, it's all only fans and private people.

Starting point is 02:11:27 And the big set where there's pressure on and people standing around. I did a documentary way back, one of the first episodes of my series Weird Weekends, and we followed a young guy called JJ on his first big shoot. And I'd read a lot about how people get anxiety and then everyone's standing around thinking like,

Starting point is 02:11:48 we can't shoot anything until you basically. JJ gets ready to rock. You get wood, that's the term. And so, and we were like, we're gonna be there filming. Okay, JJ. And I didn't mean really to put a hex on him, but because of the nature of documentary filmmaking, you sort of slightly,

Starting point is 02:12:06 I don't know if even hoping is a strong word, but you are aware that you're going to, if you get, you're gonna get a better scene if he fails to get wood, and there he was, and he couldn't get wood. Couldn't get it. Yeah. Oh, was he talking to it?

Starting point is 02:12:20 That's the worst when you start talking to your own penis. He was kind of, I don't think he was talking to it, but I remember a lot of the people, he was trying to get something going and it was just not happening. God, I've been there. What a nightmare. And you know. But nothing on the line, like he had something on the line. That's him more recently.

Starting point is 02:12:38 I saw him again, he was living in Ukraine then I think. Yeah. Five years ago, maybe four years. But back then he was, he made, there he was like, he was telling me about his techniques and he'd done three scenes and this was his first, he didn't want to mess up on his first big studio shoot. It was his first big one.

Starting point is 02:12:58 Yeah, it was a sad situation. That's a tough go. There was one thing I wanted to ask you about before we leave. Oh Oh they just had a social media ban. They wanted to put a social media disclaimer. I was looking at this. I want to see what you thought about this, Louis. Can you see that in the news articles? There's a social media, a surgeon general's warning on social media. Can you open that up? Oh I heard about this. Yeah, is that here or in America or both? Not sure. They're basically campaigning to put a surgeon's advisory or a kind of health warning.

Starting point is 02:13:33 A surgeon general demands warning label on social media apps. And they're trying to make it more sort of childproof so that actually 13 year old, cause you can get it like my eight year old got on TikTok when we weren't paying attention. We were on holiday. He started a TikTok account and then he was going viral.

Starting point is 02:13:51 We, we didn't even know what was going on. Right. We were just in a restaurant in Greece, you know, talking about this and that. We thought he was just playing on his iPad or something. And then the next morning, like they came down and they're like, he's gone, my older kids were like,

Starting point is 02:14:07 he's gone viral on his TikTok. And there was a picture, and he filmed himself going blah, blah, blah, making a weird, like he obviously liked seeing himself, so he was opening, closing his mouth, and he goes, I like Roblox. I was making a shape with his mouth. And then for some reason it kind of lit up TikTok.

Starting point is 02:14:30 I don't know why. Yeah. Cause I guess you don't see many eight year olds on there. Right. No, I don't think so. Yeah. You're like, who gave him this? How did he do it?

Starting point is 02:14:37 People were giving him bad reviews. Oh yeah. And I'm like, like he was, um, you was getting like tens, tens of thousands, you know, like more than a lot of stuff gets on TV. Yeah. And people would say, and then one guy was like, don't harsh on the guy, he just be vibing. Like kind of defending, defending his integrity

Starting point is 02:14:59 and the quality of his content. That's crazy, the kid just started. He just, he was only his like third post. But I'm also thinking, you know, it's like having a portal in your pocket, like, or in your front room. I, you know, if you've ever, if you have like a million or a couple of million social

Starting point is 02:15:18 media followers, and then you have a few drinks. It's kind of, I often think it's a bit like, if you had a balcony outside your front room and you could wander out and any, anytime there's 2 million people standing outside, so you could go out there and I'm going to show them my wiener. You know, like you could do anything. Yeah. I'm going to show them and tell them what's up.

Starting point is 02:15:38 I'm going to tell them what I feel right now. Yeah. Oh, I got a great joke. This is funny. Like you can, and that's a horrendous, I accidentally, like also there's famous people in your phone and you go like, okay, Siri, or you use the thing and it goes beep beep and like, I'm going to send a text to Bill Clinton. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:15:55 Like I don't have his number, but some famous person, right? And your one thumb click away from. Sending something crazy. Sending something crazy. And what if it started to do it what if it started just like you know what fuck these people yeah algorithm whatever yeah I mean we're already calling it an algorithm we're calling it artificial inappropriate I'm gonna I'm not gonna call it my kids take I think it's funny to do inappropriate stuff yeah that's part of

Starting point is 02:16:22 being a kid like they have a bath together. Maybe they even, if you want, they have a phone and they think it's fun, like they take a picture, maybe one of them takes a picture of his younger brother naked or something, I'm speaking hypothetically. And maybe they zoom in on his wiener, his willy. They think it's funny, like, because they can show it to you or like to their, you know, other brother

Starting point is 02:16:43 or something like that. But then one click, like, well, they have your social media account. They put it, put that on social media. Now you're a pedophile and you'll go to jail. Not even joking, right? That would be, I'd be put in prison for that. And who, what court is going to believe, oh yeah.

Starting point is 02:17:00 I didn't do that. My son took a picture of his brother's wiener and then he posted it. Exactly. Like your four year old son did that. My son took a picture of his brother's wiener and then he posted it. Exactly. Like your four year old son did that. Exactly. It's just that thing. That's at the risk.

Starting point is 02:17:10 And then one thing like that is career, potentially career ending. And what if the actual owners of these corporate, if they wanted to, they could just post something on your fucking account. They can hack into your, you're clicking all those, what are the terms and conditions?

Starting point is 02:17:26 You know, you tick the one, in Samsung it was like, you have the permission to listen to everything I say. Do you remember in the smart TV? And they were stockpiling everything you said. Their only get out was, oh, we're not listening to it. We'll only listen to it if you get into trouble.

Starting point is 02:17:42 Like if the president thinks you're a spy, you know, or a terrorist. But other than that, don't worry, we're just collecting it. Like, oh, fine then. Yeah, yeah. Right, I think that's still going, that isn't even a conspiracy theory, I don't think. Oh, I don't know, did Samsung, can you bring that up, man?

Starting point is 02:17:59 Well, you know what, one of my beliefs is that a lot of pornography sites are able to record you while you're watching pornography. Yes. So that's how a lot of these people get compromised, I think, for all types of things, is because they have video of everybody. Your TV's spying on you, but you could stop it.

Starting point is 02:18:18 On newer Samsung sets, go to Settings, Support, scroll down to Terms and Policies. Here you can turn off viewing information services, internet-based advertising. You can stop it. Yeah, but tell me how many people are going to click through all the menus to figure out. I just read how to do it and I'm still not going to do it. Exactly. You don't even read the bit that's like quick start. Here's the thing. You just like put the batteries in and if you can't figure it out with, you know, on its own,

Starting point is 02:18:43 then you get someone else to figure it out. You assume it doesn't work. Well, even with having a child, people will have a child, not even read anything about them and just take it home from the fucking hospital. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:18:53 Big time. There's no manual, but you should do some research. You should do some research. They're not spying on you though. Well, maybe they are. That's when you know you're fully schizophrenic is when you think your children are. Oh yeah, there's a Shane Moss is a great comedian

Starting point is 02:19:12 who he's like, he'd done a lot of psychedelics and he wanted to do a documentary while he was on psychedelics. But as he was taking him, he got like further and further down the hole of them. And he started to think that the camera crew that he'd hired was spying and working against him. So now he started to think that the camera crew that he'd hired was spying and working against him. So now he started leaving clues to the camera crew so whoever would be

Starting point is 02:19:30 watching this on the other side would be able to come and help him. But to be fair, it would be quite normal. That sounds quite normal to think that. Like I don't fully, fully, fully trust any crew, any team I work with. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. Because if you did something like horrific, in a weird way, you would expect them to expose you, right? Right, there's a part of them that would. You'd have hopefully, hoped that they wouldn't.

Starting point is 02:19:59 If they caught you, they were doing a documentary about you and you did, they caught you looking at animal porn or something. Yeah. Then maybe that's a better story. And maybe they should be like, thinking about we need to do this, like uncover. Suddenly their allegiance changes.

Starting point is 02:20:18 It's no longer about morning sex, right? The documentary about morning sex, this is more, we did go to like 60 minutes and think we have Theo Vonn looking at extreme animal porn. Well, so you can just go to any dog park and watch it for a little bit. It's not the closeups you want. Or David Attenborough, right?

Starting point is 02:20:36 That's basically what nature programs are. Oh, the Snow Finch. Did you meet him? I have met him. I interviewed him, not for TV, but for a magazine. What a voice of the times. Yeah. Soon it will die.

Starting point is 02:20:52 It will be weeks before it feeds again. I learned a lot from how sparing he is. He uses the minimum amount of words in his voiceover. "'It's winter. "'The prawns are feeding. "'Soon they will die.'" You know, like he just doesn't say anything extra. And there'll be some little rye. And then time for a nap.

Starting point is 02:21:24 You know, like you just throw it a little, it's kind of like a little bit of light irony. There he is. Yeah. That was when I still had my beard. Look at that. That was peak me when I had like a beard. I had a little gray. It was, that was probably right at the beginning of like, I was two years before the rot set in. Then you met Nancy then? I was with Nancy. She got to, at least she got to be with me during the, you know, the golden years. That's what counts, man. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:21:54 Well, you have a love in your life. That's nice, man. Oh, yeah, very much so. I feel very lucky. Louis, thank you so much, man. Oh, man, it's a real privilege. I really feel it's a thrill being here for real. Yeah, it's really been nice, man.

Starting point is 02:22:04 I just, I, so many people were fascinated that we were gonna be able to have you hang out with us. And so a lot of women too, loads. For real? Wow. Loads of women. Don't tell Nancy. No, that's nice to hear that.

Starting point is 02:22:19 It's nice to be, what's the word? Like, obviously I'm not on the menu, but, or I'm on the menu, but I, I'm not in stock or I don't know what the metaphor is. The market price is very high. Well, the chef doesn't make that anymore. Unfortunately, but maybe for special occasions. No, that's a joke. No, that's a joke, Nancy. And you enjoy your Christmas. Yes. I'm sure you're a lovely lady

Starting point is 02:22:48 and hopefully we get to meet you one day. Louis, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your podcast. Every week is just the Louis Theroux podcast. The Louis Theroux podcast, yeah, on Spotify. And Tell Them You Love Me is on Netflix. Tell Them You Love Me is really, really, it's really, it's crazy. There's a lot of little things I felt during it where I was like, man, do I feel this?

Starting point is 02:23:08 What do I know here? It was cool. Thank you. Shout out. Nick August Perna, I mentioned him. Enjoy the rest of your stay. Will do, man. Have fun.

Starting point is 02:23:19 Yeah, I'm going to do my best and I'll let you know next time I come in town. I'll catch up on your pod next time. That would be nice. Yeah, it would be a reciprocal deal. I'd love to have you on. That's in town, man, I'll have to catch up on your pod next time. That would be nice. Yeah, it would be a reciprocal deal. I'd love to have you on. That's very fair, man. Thank you for your time, brother. Thank you for yours.

Starting point is 02:23:30 Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart.

Starting point is 02:23:38 I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the love that's in my heart. I can feel the share this piece of mind I found I can feel it

This Past Weekend - E513 Louis Theroux

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