This Past Weekend - E523 Georges St-Pierre

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, I have a secret. I use Secret Whole Body Deodorant because more than just my armpits stink. Can I use it with my bra rubs under my... Oh, yeah. And what about down there? You know, my... Totally, four out of five gynecologists would recommend it. So I tried it, and now I get 72 hours of freshness from my pits to my...

Starting point is 00:00:22 Ooh, I love that it's a spray. Me too. And it comes in sticks and creams too. Go get your secret whole body deodorant. Sitting down today to talk about dinosaurs and fears with one of the greatest mixed martial artists of our time, of any time. He won UFC belts in two different weight classes and you can't even talk about the sport without mentioning him. I'm really honored to be in his presence

Starting point is 00:00:50 today and I mean that. Today's guest is Mr. George St. Pierre. I'll sit and tell you. This is your country, man. Yes, sir. And so what it's, um, yeah, because it's French Canadian. So which one is the real one? Or which, you know what I'm saying? Like who's really the boss or whatever. Well, there's no really, I mean, who's the boss. I don't know if there was really a boss.

Starting point is 00:01:43 Uh, like if you had to pick one, do you get to pick one or every day it's the same? Yeah. You mean the boss? Talk about the leader. Most people will tend to say, oh, it's the political leader of Canada or the Prime Minister or the president. But I think, I mean, you can call me conspirat- Conspirat-sionist thinking that, but I don't think he's the one that really controls everything.

Starting point is 00:02:10 I think he's the- there's people behind that. Yeah. Maybe, I mean, that's what I believe. I could be wrong, but that's what I think. That's what I think too. Yeah, I think that the President is the face. It's the face, it's the puppet. But, but, but like our Prime Minister is the face, but I think there's people behind that.

Starting point is 00:02:27 There are certain things that he cannot do. That's what I believe. Did you always believe that you think or that you think that's grown over the years kind of? It's a good question. I think it's grown over the years. Especially because there's a lot of sometimes there's a lot of conspiracy that turns out to be true. Yeah. And there's so much stuff on the internet nowadays that you can try to search anything and they will give you something to read about a certain subject, even if it's completely preposterous. Yeah. completely preposterous. So it's hard to know what is real and what is not. But maybe that's the reason why because of that,

Starting point is 00:03:10 it makes me realize that, oh, what I'm seeing is maybe not really what it is. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think it's fascinating because, yeah, say if like a lot of media was like kind of all controlled, right, then of course They're gonna not want you to know something

Starting point is 00:03:27 Yeah, and eventually people are gonna kind of figure those things out people figure things out I think it's it's always about money and power and now people that has money and power what they want is they want more money and more power I tend to believe that most of people are mostly in the middle. And like if you look at politics, you have the extreme right, extreme left. But most people are, I think, mostly in the middle. You know, that they're not to one side or the other. And the way it's portrayed is that you have to pick one side or the other side.

Starting point is 00:04:03 And you're like, shit, I don't know what to do. You know what I mean? Because I'm stuck in the middle. Yeah, I think stuck in the middle is probably the best spot. And I think most people are probably pretty logical, you would think. But then maybe sometimes I start to wonder, do I give people too much credit?

Starting point is 00:04:18 Or a lot of people just bat shit crazy? And then I wonder sometimes, am I just bat shit crazy? Yeah, it's true. We have to look at ourself in the mirror sometimes. I know, it's hard. Yeah, but I wonder sometimes like, yeah, I'm amazed, I guess, that power and money drives so many people. Like I get it being like an influence, you know?

Starting point is 00:04:39 But I think there's a part of me, I guess I'm shocked that it has that much control. What do you think, I mean you're kind of one-on-one, George, you've had such a, I mean you got to almost have kind of a perfect career in a lot of ways, you know. I made tons of mistakes looking at it and I wish I could do better because I'm very critics, critics about critics, critics about myself, but yeah, I'm happy. What I have accomplished. And do you think, was it power, success driving you? Like what do you, what was kind of your driving force?

Starting point is 00:05:14 Do you feel like? I'll be honest with you, 100%. I, I never liked to fight. I love the sport. I love the science of it. I like the camaraderie that I have with my friend, before like a training camp, it's like you're going to war.

Starting point is 00:05:33 I despise fight day. It's unbearable for me. I'm extremely uncomfortable and not knowing if I will be hurt, humiliated or winning the ultimate prize is unbearable for me. It's very hard to deal with, but it's a prize that you have to pay if you want to achieve freedom. Like for me, I first started doing it because I had a certain natural talent, I would say. If I would be born with an anti-cap,

Starting point is 00:06:11 I would probably not be able to do what I did. So I was a gifted athlete. And I also work really hard, but I also, I consider myself extremely lucky the stars were all aligned because there is guys that I've met through my journey that were probably more talented than I was there's guys that I met that probably worked harder than I did but I think what made the difference is the fact that I met the right people at the right time. At some time life gave me certain opportunity that I did not shy away. I was always

Starting point is 00:06:55 willing to get out of my comfort zone in order to improve, which is not the case from a lot of athletes. And not only athletes, like entrepreneur, humans, for a human, for all of us, it's hard to get out of our comfort zone. But sometimes it's necessary. It's a necessary evil in order to improve. Yeah. You know, I think like what you said,

Starting point is 00:07:18 cause you can control how much you, how hard you work. You can control, those are a lot of control factors. But that is, that's a risk when you get out there and you get on the fight day. Yeah. Some of it's out of your control. I remember that. Did it feel like that? Is that what it felt like kind of? It's always a question of risk and reward, you know, it's calculated risk. I remember if I go back I remember if I go back more than like almost 30 years ago, I couldn't really speak English very well. I learned it at school, but I grew up in a French environment, so my English was really bad.

Starting point is 00:07:55 It's hard. Yeah. And the first time I remember, I was already a black belt in karate and I wanted to go to the Gracie Academy in New York because that's where the best Jiu-Jitsu athlete were training at the time. So I knew that I needed to go there in order to train with the best, to learn from the best. So I'm about, at that time I'm about like 16, 17 years old and I'm planning to go there with two of my friends, two of that are professional athletes at the time. And one of them, only one of them speak perfect English.

Starting point is 00:08:29 So he's a. Yeah. And it was not like it is today. There were there were not like ways. So we had to go on MapQuest and it was a pain in the butt to find your way. So so I'm driving. I got a shitty Ford Temple with a hole in. And I remember where I used to put the brake pedal, so people used to make fun of me,

Starting point is 00:08:48 it was like the Flintstone, you know, I could almost put my foot on the floor, you know? So the plan was to go in New York, to go there and we shared the hotel together. So we saved money and we share the gas and everything. But the day before the trip, one of them called me and it's the one that speak English. He's like, hey George, I cannot make it.

Starting point is 00:09:13 I'm like, are you kidding me? And I'm talking to the other one who's supposed to come with me. He's like, oh, if he's not going, I'm not going either. I'm like, man. But you know what? I said to myself, I said, F it. I'm going by myself and that's it.

Starting point is 00:09:26 So I went there and I remember, man, I got my ass whooped by a guy who weighs maybe 30 pounds lighter than me. I got tapped out like in Jitsu when you're stuck in an arm bar or choke you have to tap. Yeah. Or you get choked out. So and I remember at the time I was like, man, I was getting mold. I was a black belt in karate. I was a good striker, but in grappling, I didn't have a lot of knowledge. And I knew I needed to learn it in order to become a mixed martial art fighter. But man, I got beat up so bad.

Starting point is 00:10:05 And I remember driving back. I was that close to give up. And I told myself, you know what? I need to go back out there and learn. And every time I was going back there, it was tough for me because guys, a lot of them were trying to bully me. A few of them were very nice to me,

Starting point is 00:10:23 but it was a constant grind. And I remember the two guys that were supposed to come with me, they asked me, hey, how was it? I'm like, man, I got my ass kicked so bad. Man, they never came back with me. They were like, they wanted to stay in their comfort zone. So that's the difference, you know? If you want to succeed sometime, it's a necessary evil.

Starting point is 00:10:40 You're gonna go through pain, you might be humiliated, you're gonna fail, but then go through that, man, in order through pain, you're going to might be humiliated, you're going to, you're going to fail. But then I need to go through that man in order to improve, you know, and that's, that's what I was ready to do, which is probably the case of other guys. So that the reason why I was successful was not because I think I was more gifted or, you know, I work harder. It's just because I was ready to do that sacrifice. You know, what do you think kind of made you in that space to take that sacrifice? Cause I guess it's like, yeah, I mean, it's,

Starting point is 00:11:10 well, giving up is easy. Yeah. It's, I think- Saying something is better, saying something's too hard. It's kind of easy, you know? I think unless you're different, I think some people look at that as a challenge and some people look at it as just a reality.

Starting point is 00:11:27 Yeah, I think if you wanna be the best at something, I'm not talking being good, I'm talking about you wanna be the best at something, and in every field, I think you need to be a little bit obsessed. I was never diagnosed, I never saw a psychologist for it, but I think I'm obsessive compulsive. And I think... Did you notice it when you were young?

Starting point is 00:11:52 Like what kind of things did you see that you would do? Well one thing I would do that is completely crazy. It's very stupid, but I used to do like when I walk on the sidewalk for example I remember in New York going to train I walk on the sidewalk and there is a line on the sidewalk and I noticed that I step over one line with my right foot but I have to step over with the left to make an equal number and And sometimes these things are so stupid, but it drives you nuts. When I drill techniques in Jiu Jitsu,

Starting point is 00:12:29 I have to do this in all wrestling or any combat sport, I have to do the same amount on each side. Even though in a fight I will most likely do one side, my best side, but I have to do the other side. And I think these things as crazy as it sounds are probably some of the things that made me perform well. Right, because you need things to be even. You need things to be calculated maybe. Or even the fact that you're even calculating things is kind of...

Starting point is 00:12:56 It sounds crazy. It sounds obsessive, but it also is kind of magnificent in a way because to be great at something, you're going to have to be someone who's calculating things even when you're not, uh, even in your subconscious. Also I think it's good for an athlete for performance, but you need to learn how to let go. Yeah. You need to learn to punch, punch in and punch out. And sometimes it's hard. I see in the news, sometimes some fighters, they can't do it.

Starting point is 00:13:24 You know, they, they, they go crazy. They keep going. Yeah. Like Tony Ferguson, he keeps going. Do you think it's a tough space that he's in? Like, cause it's weird. People love watching him fight, right? And it feels like he loves like giving himself to the people.

Starting point is 00:13:37 He like, it almost like he shows up just because he knows we're going to love him so much. Yeah. But you start to think that it's painful for him. I mean, he's had a tough run recently. Yeah, I love to see him fight. It's just unfortunate because the Tony Ferguson that you see nowadays, it's not the Tony Ferguson that he was when he was in his prime.

Starting point is 00:14:01 And it depends what he's trying to accomplish. I prioritize my health, you know, first and that's my priority, but some guys, they, they have a kick of it. They, they, they don't care. They, they prioritize having, I don't know, some of them, they love to fight, you know, for them it's, it's, it's, it's an adrenaline. They love it. I never liked it.

Starting point is 00:14:25 I mean, I did it because I wanted to have the freedom, the life that I have. So I used that to propel myself where I wanted to be in life. But some guys, they just love to fight. And it's funny because when I was young, I was looking around and I never felt I was at the right place. I remember I seek the help of sports psychologists and a lot of them, they told me, you know, like they were trying to brainwash me. They were like, oh, George, stop saying you're afraid. You're not afraid.

Starting point is 00:14:58 You're excited. I'm like, I'm like, bro, I'm excited if I, I don't know if I say a beautiful woman or, you know, like, like don't know if I say a beautiful woman or you know like like or you know what I mean? I'm not excited to go fight in a cage. You know what I mean? So I'm afraid then I realized that you should not be afraid. I should not be afraid to admit that I'm afraid.

Starting point is 00:15:18 You know there's no courage without fear. And when I made peace with it, I knew it was a normal thing and I learned how to control it. But it's, that's why there's some guys I think they fake it so hard and they don't make peace with it. And when the light is on and it's time to perform, they crumble. You see that very often in combat sport. Guys that are very good in the gym, but then when it's time to go, they don't perform as well. You're like, what's going on? You's why, because they don't know how to deal with, they don't know how to domesticate their fear. They don't know how to manage their fear.

Starting point is 00:15:53 They don't know how to manage it. They don't know how to control their stress. I remember, I think it's Cosomoto, the Mike Tyson coach, he says, fear is like fire. It can help you cook your food, but it can also burn you if you don't know how to control it. And one of my sports psychologists used to say to me, you have butterflies, you have to make them fly in formation.

Starting point is 00:16:15 That's one thing he used to tell me all the time. That was a good analogy. That's crazy. And I'm sure for you, same thing. I mean, when you do a show, I mean, I don't know, are you afraid to mess up and be being humiliated? Did it ever happen to you? Oh, for sure. Like you're screwed up. You're like, shit, this thing doesn't work the way I want.

Starting point is 00:16:37 And I mean, I'm sure it happened. Like it happened to me. I get hit or you know what I mean? I lose a fight. Yeah. It wasn't my plan. My strat. Yeah. I ran out of bullets. I ran out of like moves. I tried some jokes. It didn't work

Starting point is 00:16:47 Oh the beginning you almost go out there Cuz you just want I think You know, it's gonna fucking hurt, you know And you just want to I think a lot of comics kind of hate themselves a little bit to be honest and so they go out there cuz they know the feeling that the Embarrassed the feeling that the embarrassment and pain they're going to feel finally it'll match how they feel on the inside. So there's a little weirdness in that that like some things are going to feel a little even in a way. And also a lot of comedians hate themselves so much that the people could

Starting point is 00:17:22 never hate them as much as they fucking hate themselves. So, or they've talked so badly about themselves, like in their own head, you know? You mean you need to be willing to make fun of yourself if you want to do that, right? Yeah, I think that helps because then it's certainly at that point it's like you're using all the tools. You already... You make fun of others, but you make fun of... you need to be ready to make fun of yourself as well right yeah and in your head like i think a lot of comedians are like um you know they have a lot of fear they have a lot of uh inferiority and so when they're when they're growing up they probably talk badly to themselves in their head and so then when they're able to

Starting point is 00:17:59 joke about themselves it's almost a way of releasing some of that it's like they're making fun of themselves but it's in a way that is bringing joy to people. So it almost kind of like alleviates some of that, if that makes any sense. Over the year, that feeling of... It goes away. It goes away for you, yeah? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:18 That was my gut. It didn't go away from me. Really? Yeah, it got worse because every fight is bigger than that. Just the fight. so the fight itself, so the training and all of that, you're digging. No, training makes me nervous. No, I'm nervous before training because when you train

Starting point is 00:18:31 for a fight you want to perform. When you're in between fight, off season, now you want to have fun. That's when training is fun. But when you're training for a fight, it's about performance, it's not that fun. It's not fun. Winning is fun, but you know like like like one of the things...

Starting point is 00:18:45 Like the fight day would be tough? I'm sorry? The fight day would be the toughest? It's terrible. I... Well to give you an example, fight day. It's... Every fight day is the worst day of my life. You wake up after a shitty night of sleep. And when you wake up, you're like because you don't sleep well because you make so I make so much scenario in my mind if you do this I'm gonna do this and try to cover

Starting point is 00:19:10 every possible scenario that can happen and and sometimes you close your eyes you try to see you try to be positive but sometimes you don't see yourself winning sometimes there's certain imagery that pops up in your head that you see yourself losing. But I develop a trick. I'm a firm believer of the power of thinking, you know, of the power of the mind. Visualization? Yes.

Starting point is 00:19:35 So when you have a negative imagery that pops up in your head, it's a sign of intelligence. You know, it's normal. It will happen. Because you're smart, you can foresee certain bad outcomes, so you need to be prepared. So it forces you to... you don't want to finish your visualization on a negative note because it would leave a scar up here. So I always force myself, when I see myself getting dropped by a punch, then I don't let

Starting point is 00:20:04 go. getting dropped by a punch then I don't let go I just force myself okay I'm gonna I'm gonna scramble back up and get back in control of the fight and then I can go on with my life do whatever I need to do. So I think if you only finish on the negative it could leave a scar. That's one of the things that over the year I I try to do and it helped me a lot. It's powerful. It reminds me of the fight, the first Sarah fight I think, you know, and I know you didn't get the outcome that you wanted but you stayed alive. I mean you, you know, that was a... Yeah, I got hit so many times. I was like, jeez, I felt like we were getting hit at home, I remember.

Starting point is 00:20:40 And Matt Serra really surprised me because going into that fight was my first title defense. Matsuura was known for his grappling prowess. He was one of the most decorated jiu-jitsu athletes at the time. And I was more worried about his ground game than his stand up. But he worked a lot on his stand up game and he caught me with a punch that I never saw coming on behind the hair. And when he caught me, I remember I got emotional because I wanted to give it back to him right away.

Starting point is 00:21:15 You know, like this was not supposed to happen. The odds were favoring me, like something like 10 to one or something crazy. So I wanted to give it back to him right away. And like an idiot, I fall into a slugfest. And when you're stunned, you're not accurate because you're dizzy. He was accurate and he hits very hard. So I got like a, I don't, I can't remember how many punches I got hit with.

Starting point is 00:21:39 Oh, you stayed alive though. Oh, I, I, but you know what I did? So because I didn't know where I was, I was so dizzy, I tapped out and I got a lot of critics because, oh, he's a quitter, he tapped out on strike and everything. And it affected me at the time because I was like, man, you know, like maybe I'm not as good as I think. And a lot of people were like,

Starting point is 00:22:01 oh, he's maybe not as good as people think. And I needed to build myself mentally from that. And it was very, very hard because I lost the confidence and confidence for a fire is the most important thing because you can have all the skills in the world. But if you don't have the confidence, if I can make an analogy, it's like someone who has a lot of money in his bank account, but no way of accessing it. So I needed to build myself back up and it was, it was a tough time. I remember. It's funny you see it that way because I saw it as wow, I cannot believe how I think it for me, it goes back to what you were saying that like to envision, like if you visualize yourself getting hit to then finish on a visualization of yourself, you know, returning back to form and like still being in the bout.

Starting point is 00:22:45 Cause that's what it seemed like to me. I mean, I know we got the victory on that one, but, um, I, I, I, I tapped out on strike and I'm not ashamed to say it. A lot of guys that will say, because there, there's this thing in our sport that, Oh, he tapped out on strike. You quit, but man, it's a sport. We're not in a war and'd rather save myself for another day. Alright?

Starting point is 00:23:06 You always seem like that guy. You always seem like this... You're always a perfect strategist. I'm never going to give up until it's finished. But that fight was finished. I was gone. It was a matter of time that I was probably going to fall unconscious. So I decided to tap and to save some of my brain cells.

Starting point is 00:23:24 And come back another day. And you did. Yeah. And I think there's no shame about it. When that happened at the time, I was ashamed a little bit, and I didn't want to talk about it, but I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I did it. Well, I think it's easier probably to look back in the past and see the long, to see the whole, like, all the work,

Starting point is 00:23:44 to see it as a whole, as like a whole piece there. Yeah, what was it? What was kind of one of the toughest times you felt like in your career? Was that probably it, you think? Because you had just gotten the title. It's your first title defense. That was bad mentally. The first loss, before that I lost to Matt Hughes. It was more of a learning experience. This was different because it really brought my confidence down. I remember at the time I had a sports psychologist, he's awesome. I shout out to Brian Kane.

Starting point is 00:24:21 Brian or Ryan? Brian Kane. He was amazing. And he's deceased? No, no, no, no, no Brian Kane. He was amazing. And he and he's deceased. No, no, no, no, no, no. He's still he's still around. He works with pro athlete and he says to me, he says to me, because after the fight, I immediately the only thing I was thinking about is to get back out there and get my

Starting point is 00:24:41 get my my revenge, you know, because I was not proud of my performance. I was like, man, I'm better than this. I'm better than this guy. I wanna go back out there and show the world. You know, my ego wanted to show the world that I'm better than this. But the fight that I had was not against Sarah. My other fight, I needed to build,

Starting point is 00:25:00 like to have a few more wins before I had to return for a title shot. So I was not focusing on the right thing. I was focusing on Matt Serra instead of focusing on my next opponent. And that could have been very bad. So what my sports psychologist did to me, he said, said, George, you're carrying a lot of brick and I didn't know what mean at the time. So he made me carry a brick and he made me write the name of Sarah with clay on it. And he made me carry that brick in my training bag.

Starting point is 00:25:30 And every day I was going to train with that freaking brick. And in TriStar you have to go up the stairs. And it's not a pleasant walk to go to the gym. It's kind of a training of itself. And at one point, like after a week, I called him and I was like, hey, can I get rid of that brick? He's like, no, you keep it. You keep it.

Starting point is 00:25:49 I'm like, man, this guy is completely insane. You know, like he was, you know, I thought that he was crazy. He probably needed a psychologist himself. So I kept carrying, carrying the brick, carrying and right like the week before my fight with, I think it was Josh Koschek, that I was trying to get back to a title shot. I was like, man, I can't deal with this shit anymore. Can I throw that break out?

Starting point is 00:26:11 He's like, okay, I'm coming, wait. So I went to where the Saint Laurent River is. I threw it, I grabbed it, and I threw it in the water. And I know it sounds cool to say, but it was something physical that I did that had a profound change on my mental. It kind of free me from that, that needs to prove to the world that I want to beat them again, you know? So I was able to focus on the immediate task ahead. Right. Yeah, because sometimes that desire, I just, it's a blind desire almost like I need to prove and it's not,

Starting point is 00:26:52 it's powerful but it's not effective because it's not calculated. Yeah. You know, and it can be even more dangerous sometimes than anything. Yeah, so I was not, I was going in a dangerous path because I was not focusing on the most important thing. That was my, the fight, like I was not, I was going in a dangerous path because I was not focusing on the most important thing. That was my, the fight, like I was focusing on the other fight be after, but yeah, I was about to screw it up bad. I know whenever you retired Hendrick, what was your, oh no, your last fight was Bisping. Bisping was my last fight.

Starting point is 00:27:21 Hendricks is after I took a break after Andriks. First of all, I'd like to say thank you to Dan Morgan and everyone over at Morgan & Morgan. We had an issue with Kai the hitchhiker and he filed a lawsuit against us and he made quite a hullabaloo. But Morgan & Morgan stuck with it until finally our case was dismissed. Morgan & Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. They have over 100 offices nationwide and more than 800 lawyers. With over $15 billion dollars covering over 300,000 clients, Morgan & Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full and fair compensation.

Starting point is 00:28:05 Submitting an injury claim with Morgan & Morgan is so easy. If you've ever been injured, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go to ForThePeople.com slash This Pass Weekend or dial pound law, pound five two nine from your cell phone. That's forthepeople.com slash this past weekend, or dial pound law, pound five two nine from your cell. This is a paid advertisement. Yeah, whenever you took a break after a hendrik,

Starting point is 00:28:41 you talked about like you were going through a tough time or something. What was that about? Was it stuff you couldn't talk about before? Yeah, whenever you took a break after a hinder cube talked about like you're going through a tough time or something What was that about? It was was it stuff you couldn't talk about before? Yeah, I had a lot of the shot a lot of family issue and problem and and the thing is when you're I was a very active fighter and And you say active what do you mean fighting often? Yeah fighting often and also

Starting point is 00:29:04 You have to consider that you do a lot of promotion, tours and stuff. It takes a lot out of you. And also the stress on always, you always have someone that is threatening you. Because when you're the contender, you don't have as much stress because you have one target. You want to be champion. You want to go there. That's the benchmark you know. That's the best isn't it? Yes. It's hard to be to become champion but it's even harder to stay champion. There's not a lot of guys that stay champion for a long time. It's very hard because when you're champion you're the target. When you're the contender you have you know one guy is starting it's nobody really targets, but if you get to the title shot, you have only one guy that targets you.

Starting point is 00:29:49 When you're the champion, everyone targets you. So you're the target. And you don't have much time to prepare for your opponent. And your opponent has been looking at you for years because he's climbing the rank and he's studying you, he's trying to find a sheik in your armor. And every time they interview any of those guys, they all call your name because you're the guy. Of course.

Starting point is 00:30:13 So that's why it is much different. It's much more difficult to stay champion than becoming champion. And when you're a champion, it's hard because your life changed. You have more responsibility and more... There's a lot of more requests and stuff. And man, that's what happened to me at the time.

Starting point is 00:30:35 I was doing it for so long and I had so much pressure for so long. And I remember at the time I was shy to talk about it because I was like, if I talk about it before the fight, and I was fighting against, they used to have big problem with performance enhancing drug in mixed martial art. It was a big, big problem. Oh, they got big problems with those at 7-11, dude. People are shooting up everywhere. I never wanted to accuse one individual, but I wanted to change the system.

Starting point is 00:31:09 And the, you have said that time didn't really add my back. Didn't really help me on that. And I was, I was fighting against that, uh, behind closed door and it was, you were saying some of these guys could be using, we have to test strong. Oh, a hundred percent. That's why I did the test when I when I fought Hendrix, when I fought also BJ Penn, we did the test because I was I wanted to implement this. It's crazy because you play basketball, you play soccer, play football, but you don't play fighting.

Starting point is 00:31:37 Can lose your your brain cells out there. It's different. And it makes some people like, yeah, but it doesn't make that's my bullshit. It makes you such a huge it's a tons of difference, man. I've trained with guys that are openly like they're saying to me, like when they are on on on cycle, it's not even the same person. Now, guys, it changes you not only stamina, strength, recovery, but also your your brain, your your reaction time.

Starting point is 00:32:02 You're more creative. There is things that you would do when you're on it that you wouldn't maybe do when you're not. You'll start fucking the air when you're on test 700 or whatever, dude. I saw a guy one time, he just, he had so, you know, he just, he turned into an animal. Yeah, 100%, 100%.

Starting point is 00:32:20 So in fighting. So that's a risk then because you're at the top, obviously everybody's focused on you. And if you don't know if some of the... If you're staying clean and you don't know if some of the... Some of the testing is up to your... What you believe is a fair code, then fuck, that would be really scary. Well, the martial art, I think one of the things in martial art is the respect and being just, being fair.

Starting point is 00:32:45 I mean, these are the traditional values of martial arts and I always try to carry that with me. I felt like I was in some way, not betrayed, but I felt a little bit let go. I was just fed up. I just needed to take a time off. You know, I was, that's why I left for more than four years, you know, and I'm, I'm glad I did it because maybe I should have done it.

Starting point is 00:33:14 Maybe a fight, one fight before, you know, it would. You can burn out man. Yeah. There's so much people don't, I don't think realize that. I can't even imagine the responsibilities. And then yeah, especially while the sport is still building so much at that time, like that was a huge building period for UFC. And so like, um, to have some, just to have like interview requests,

Starting point is 00:33:34 I want you to be here and you want to do all the things you can do, you know, cause you feel like you're physically capable, but yeah, part of you starts to get burned down. It's like, uh, I don't know. It's almost like when you light a candle and there's nothing left in it. Yeah. That's how I feel sometimes. I remember you, you just finish a fight and immediately after there's another guy calling

Starting point is 00:33:52 you out and being myself, I'm sort of a obsessive compulsive guy. So as soon as another guy calling me out, I'm starting to make scenario in my mind. I'm like, okay, I'm like, it drives you nuts. It drives you. And when you're the contender, you're on your way up. You don't have that problem. Yeah. Yeah, of course, when maybe you get to the top five,

Starting point is 00:34:14 but before that, nobody noticed you. Nobody care about you. You care about them, but they don't care about you. It's so funny. So when you're on top, now you're the target. Everybody talks shit about you. They disrespect you. And if you want it on top, now you're the target. Everybody talks shit about you, they disrespect you. And if you want it or not, it touches you.

Starting point is 00:34:29 Because you say, oh you don't bother watching these things, but it touches you. And you see, sometimes things get bad. You see that people, they insult each other. And people always ask me sometimes, do you think they went too far? I mean, this is the fight game, man. They you can die out there or you can have certain damage that will make you die in the near future. Oh, yeah. So they will share whatever anything the art of war, man.

Starting point is 00:34:55 They're going to try everything to try to make you lose your mind. And we saw many, many fights that guys lose their mind. And that's one of the reasons why, like everybody knows Conor McGregor. Yeah. He, his first title fight against Jose Aldo. He knocked him out in like something like seven seconds. He pissed off Jose Aldo so much. Jose Aldo lost his mind.

Starting point is 00:35:18 He went out of his game plan and tried to rush to him, to give it to him. Conor McGregor is an incredible counter puncher. He just slipped, boom, that was it. That was, I mean, it was very smart from his part to taunt Jose Aldo. It was emotional. It was, I believe it was prepared.

Starting point is 00:35:41 I believe he put Jose Aldo exactly where he wanted to be. He set it up by all the interviews, all the things he said, all the things he'd done. Right, he started the fight months before in a way. Yeah, so when you're in that fight game, another thing that people don't talk about, you never want to show your private life. Right. Because people will use that against you. Talk about people.

Starting point is 00:36:06 Me, I can put a shield. If you can insult me, you can say whatever you want. I'm very good at putting a shield, and it's not going to bother me. But talk about someone I love, someone I care about. Now it's going to get me. And we saw that another time with Conor and Khabib Normagomanov, the famous fight.

Starting point is 00:36:26 Oh, yeah, that was crazy. Yes. So that's the reason why it went crazy after because they were they crossed the line. But it's the fight game. That's a fight game. I don't think it's right. But a lot of guys will do that to make you the real. Do you respect guys just as much to do that? I mean, it's just it's another facet to war in a way, right? It's the art of war, man. They, it's combat sport, man.

Starting point is 00:36:49 It's kill or be killed, man. They're gonna do it. You think it's evolved more as since like in the past, like 15 years, have you noticed it evolve more over time? Like that it's more of a strategy now, or do you think more people see it coming now? Like, what do you think the evolution of that's been of trash talking?

Starting point is 00:37:04 It's a good question. I think what changes is the fact that now we have social media and we're in touch with the world. I can be at home in Montreal and insulting you when you're in Tennessee in two seconds and you will notice it in real time. Boom. Before that, that was not really the case. We didn't have that that that power, you know? Now you can say something, the whole world sees it and oh did you heard what he said? Oh blah blah. So that's I think what makes the difference. It's different now. Yes. Do you feel like the testing

Starting point is 00:37:38 has gotten better over time in the sport? Well now I think it got a little bit worse because... One company quit, right? Or one company got laid off? USADA. Right. And I interrupted you. I interrupted you. Sorry, George. No, no, no.

Starting point is 00:37:54 Please, please. It's true. What happened is they didn't have any testing first. Then they hired, I think, USADA. So it got much better. But they test beef and stuff, don't they? Is it the same group? They, they, actually, USADA, I don't think is it. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:38:12 Bro, if the same person testing my pork chops is testing Mike Perry, then I think we got, we got to fucking figure something out. I mean, I think both of them are clean, but I'm just saying. But, well, you saw when I, when, when saw when USAID just arrived on the scene a lot of the champions I've felt you know and they lost a lot of money but I give them props because they took the lead. They had to do it. They had to make sure the sport was clean. Yeah and I'm happy they did it and that's one of the reasons I came back and I fought

Starting point is 00:38:40 Bespin because if they would not have made drug tests I would never have come back. I was like no way I'm like this I don't like that. and I fought bespin because if they would not have made drug tests, I would never have come back. Wow. I was like, no way. I'm like, I don't like that. But now I think it was too... It just wasn't fair. It just wasn't... It's not fair. It was insane. It was like too much. Like, I'm never going to say, hey, this guy, this guy, but when you're in the industry, you know who's who, you know who do what. It's a small world. We all know.

Starting point is 00:39:04 And... Oh, it's like when you're in ninth grade. It's a small world. We all know. Oh, it's like when you're in ninth grade and some kid shows up like that with pimples everywhere. You know what's going on. You know what Ricky's been doing. You know what I'm saying? You just know. Yeah, but sometimes it's not even, you cannot even notice it physically.

Starting point is 00:39:18 Because certain drugs, like for example, like EPO will give you a crazy stamina but might not really change as you physically. There is stuff that people talks, you know who's who. And I mean, it was just at the time it was insane. And I'm glad that UFC did this. I didn't want to bring UFC down. That was not my intent when I did this.

Starting point is 00:39:39 I wanted to elevate the sport and I'm glad they did it. I think it elevate the sport and now, yeah, they're not with USAID anymore, but I think they hire another organization to do the tests. But I do believe that if you wanna avoid corruption, it needs to be a separated entity that do the test than the organization itself. And is that what they have now? Right now it's like-

Starting point is 00:40:03 I am not sure, but if the organization has power in order, like in the testing, it's corrupted. It cannot be corrupted. It needs to be a different entity where the organization does not have any power. Right, right, because they can't be able to control and say, hey, let's make this okay and this not okay. Of course, imagine you have a big fight coming up

Starting point is 00:40:24 and the two guys that had lined the cars, like one of them test positive, just screwed up the card, you know, and they lose a lot of money. So they have a, they had to have an interest in this. Yeah. This says drug free sport international will be in charge of the collection process under the new program that begins in January when UFC's deal with usada ends. This was last year.

Starting point is 00:40:44 Former FBI Special Agent George Pirro, best known for interrogating former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, will be in charge of the new program. That's interesting. You identify people and entities in the space that can make something that is already working well and you make them better. UFC Vice President Jeff Novitski said, you learn that USADA is not the only player in this space and that a combination of other entities and individuals can actually make your program stronger and better. And that's exactly what's happening right now

Starting point is 00:41:12 with our program. It's unfortunate. I believe they want clean guys fighting in there, no doubt. I believe they want money. I think that's what they believe. I think that their number one interest is the money, which is normal. They run a business. They run a business.

Starting point is 00:41:25 They're a business. And after, yeah, the security of the factor. But it's not to bash them. And I think it's every company want to make money. That's the goal. Right. Like that's the number one priority. And after, if we can make it fair and clean, okay,

Starting point is 00:41:41 but money I think is always a number one. I think. Well, to that point, that's business. Business. Sometimes business is inherently has some evil edges to it. Or not evil, but it's like business gets kind of dirty sometimes. I'm not saying this, but I remember like I went and saw Poirier's last fight. And I remember waiting outside. The people came and took him in there to test him. But are those tests, are they able to keep those tests like,

Starting point is 00:42:07 legitimate? Are they like? Well, the problem I believe is, well, just to give you an example, when I was training to fight Michael Bisping, you had to feel the whereabout. To tell, to let them know, okay, I have training at this time, this time to this time at this place. Okay.

Starting point is 00:42:28 Oh, next week I'm in, I'm in Florida. But let's say you really want to cheat, for example. Okay. You just tell them you're going to, I don't know, freaking Antarctica or somewhere where they're not going to spend money to send an investigator to test you. Oh yeah. But you go there, you get your stuff and then you know how long it stays in your system. And then after you got the you surf on the on it for four weeks.

Starting point is 00:42:54 You know what I mean? So so. Oh, I see. So they're there to enhance you and then be clean when it's time for show time. Or another thing that guys do, they have a sponsors. OK, so they prepare they prepare their excuse. So let's say I'm sponsored by a certain food supplement company. And I'm taking, for example, a certain substance that is illegal.

Starting point is 00:43:17 I know that the food supplement, that the protein company that sponsored me is tainted by that certain substance. So I'm sponsored by them. So when I get cut, it's not my fault, it's the company that sponsors me. So that's another way. So you prepare your your your your, you know, that's that's one of the way I would think they would do. Yeah, no, I think that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:43:42 Did you feel like most of the fights you fought people your opponent was clean? I Don't have the evidence and then it's um, it's uh, it's wrong to accuse someone if you don't have the evidence but I Know for a fact that there is a lot of guys a lot a lot of guys that were Using performance and nsync drug and it was it was a big problem Yeah, and the same thing in the Olympic Where you have money, you will always have corruption. It's impossible to catch everyone because the technology to cheat will always be one step ahead of the technology to catch the athlete. I know, it's crazy. It's like a cat and a mouse.

Starting point is 00:44:20 Well, you were fortunate, man. You got in and you kind of got out at the time where you wanted. I mean, you'd achieved everything you wanted. I mean, you're one of the rare people that it's like, it's almost like if you look at your career and stuff, you're like, dang, man, he made all the right moves. You know, I was strategic about it. I was strategic, but I have the chance to have real friends. A lot of the people I hang out with, that I'm friends with, they were friends with me in the beginning. And for me, it's very important

Starting point is 00:44:49 because they don't tell me what I wanna hear, they tell me the truth. What you need. And even when I wanted to come back and fight Michael Bisping, a lot of my good friends, they were like, George, you're 36 years old, man. Your best years are maybe behind you. What are you trying to prove?

Starting point is 00:45:04 And my argument was like, man, I don't want to live with regret. I just want to do one more or, you know, depend on how it's going to go, you know, and if I fail, I fail and I leave and if I keep going, I keep going. But at least give me one shot and if I succeed, we'll see after, you know what I mean? And I didn't want to live with regret, you know, because let's say, let's say I would not have done it. I was, I will have grow up. Now I'm, I'm 43. It's too late. You know, I passed my prime. I would, I would live with regrets. I should have done it and I would regret it.

Starting point is 00:45:39 So I always believe that you never want to live with regrets. That's the worst thing. Is there, has there been moments since then where like you're just on the couch or something, you've had a couple beers and you're like, I'm fucking getting back in there tomorrow and it's just like, you're just kind of fired up. After, when I retired, I retired because I had,

Starting point is 00:46:00 when I won the title, but people don't know this, but I was very ill, Like I had ulcer colitis because I was trying to gain weight. Colitis. Yes. I was trying to gain weight because I was fighting in a... Felling of the large intestine. Yes. Okay.

Starting point is 00:46:16 I was trying to put on weight. Is it Crohn's disease? You have Crohn's disease? No, no, it's ulcer colitis. It's not Crohn's. Crohn's is different. But very often ulcer colitis transform into Cro's not Crohn's. Crohn's is different. Ulcerative colitis. But very often ulcerative colitis transform into Crohn's and Crohn's transform into cancer. A lot of time, you know, you see that progression.

Starting point is 00:46:32 So when that, like when I had those crazy cramps, it was during my training camp with Bisping and I didn't know what it was because it was blood when I was going to the bathroom. And I told myself, I said, whatever it is, I'm going to do the fight and I'm going to have... Because, no, no, but to know what it is, you need to do what they call a colonoscopy. So they go with a camera and it's like... Right, you need to go in there, yeah. Perverts. Yeah, you need to take laxative and all that, like it empties you.

Starting point is 00:46:57 And I was trying to put on weight. Oh, yes, it works. So, you know what, I couldn't do it. It was a few weeks before. And I said, you know what, whatever it is, I'll do the fight and I'll deal with it after. And after the fight, I went to do the test and I got diagnosed with ulcerative colitis

Starting point is 00:47:14 and I was on heavy medication like for anti-inflammatory. And I relinquished the title. I could have kept the title for one year and like parade with the sponsorship, but I didn't want to do that because of the respect, you know. So I relinquished it because I didn't know what was going to happen. I said, man, I don't know what's going to happen, you know. So I tried to get better and after a few weeks, it didn't really work. And I discovered fasting. And what happened is pretty incredible. I met a doctor, Dr. Jason Fung in Toronto. Jason Fung? F-U-N-G? Yes, he's a nephrologist.

Starting point is 00:47:56 I think it's Chinese or Canadian Chinese. Yeah, that's him. Exactly. He gave me a fasting program. He treats a patient that has certain type of diabetes. And he gave me a certain program of fasting. And what happened after the next few weeks, all my symptoms disappeared. And I diminished the dose of my medication until I no longer need it. And what type of fasting? what exactly were you doing? I did two types. I did what we call time restricted eating, where you eat all your calorie in a certain window. Okay, like intermittent fasting?

Starting point is 00:48:34 Yeah, like you eat your calorie in an eight hour and you fast on, like you only drink water in the 16 hour. And I do also prolonged fasting. So what I do, when I do prolonged fasting I do four days only water and when I train I take salt in my in my hand I put a little bit and I lick and pervert. It's okay. But you take salt because you don't want to deplete your mineral when you and this over time because ulcerative colitis you're supposed to be stuck with that for life. Wow. It's a condition with that for life. Wow.

Starting point is 00:49:05 It's a condition you have for life. When you got it, you finish. You know, you got it. And all my symptoms are gone. Now I can drink, I can eat whatever I want. And I mean, I realized that, you know, we talk about conspiracy and stuff. The reason why you don't hear about fasting is because nobody makes money with it. It's not no pills. Right. Yeah, but it's really worth investigating. Of course, ask your doctor, but man, it changes my life and I just wish I would have known this before.

Starting point is 00:49:32 Really? So you've used it in other facets too, you know, when you need it? It works for everything. Like sometimes you have an injury, like say tendonitis, and tendonitis often it's related to inflammation you know. All inflammation disease when you fast it take away the inflammation and if all the stuff that I that I had that regarding inflammation like a toe one of my toes I had a problem with one of my toes it was hurting me for years when I started doing my fasting it kind of disappeared yeah yeah. We don't think about that we always think more more more like a more medicine more anything more more of this diet i thought the same thing before i was like oh protein shake this because i was trying to gain weight when i fought besping and and i

Starting point is 00:50:16 realized man i was doing the everything wrong and we always think about the punch in we don't think about the punch out like you're saying we don't think about the inverse out like you were saying. We don't think about the inverse of it. It's insane. And I remember I had a chance to go to Kenya. To Tanzania. No, Kenya, Masai Maru. I met the tribe of hunter-gatherer. Oh yeah, those brothers can jump, huh? Yeah, but these guys, man, sometimes they spend three, four days without eating.

Starting point is 00:50:45 And it's normal. They're used to it. And if you see their old people compared to our old people, they're much more healthier. They look much better. And the reason why people will tell me, you know, oh yeah, but they have a shorter life expectancy than us. Yes, it's because a lot of the child die before the age of adulthood. Oh, wasi, so the numbers are punished.

Starting point is 00:51:08 They die when they're young, yeah. Child, how do you say in English, the... Starvation or neglect. No, no, no, they got like disease or the hospital is too far away. You have to drive like five hours, you know. Well, that right there, if something's wrong. But once they pass a certain point, if you look at their, their old people and our old people, they, they much, they look much better. Oh, our old people look like shit. A lot of them,

Starting point is 00:51:30 to be honest, no offence, but a lot of them, you know, I've had a couple of grandparents and they were mid I thought, but uh, but what makes us live that long, it's not because of our healthy lifestyles because of our technology or most of us. Right. That's true. That's what's saving us most of the time. It's not us doing anything. Yeah. When I was a kid, for example, I had like a... It's called in French, convulsion fébrile.

Starting point is 00:51:54 It's when you're a baby, you have a rise of temperature. So what your body does, it shut itself down and it goes into a coma like this. And it happened to me when I was young. My mom told me if I would not have technology, I was brought back, brought to the hospital and they put me on an artificial coma and everything on plugs. And if I would not have that technology,

Starting point is 00:52:16 I would have not been here with you today. So I'm alive today because of our technology. But what do you hear? But how you treat the life you have is up to you as well. If we don't have technology, maybe 50% of us would not be there. I'd be out probably. A lot of my family would be gone. Oh yeah, like infant mortality rates that you're talking about. Because they have a hunter-gatherer tribe in Africa,

Starting point is 00:52:41 they have a much higher infant mortality rate than us. And that's what lowered their life expectancy. You know? When you look at some of the fights, did you watch the Bilal fight the other night? Do you watch the fights? I did. Yeah. Do you think it was fair to make them fight at that hour in the morning over there,

Starting point is 00:52:58 or is that just fighting? Well, it's fair. It's fair or unfair for both of them equally. Good point. If it's equal, it's equal. You know, like, I don't care. You know, if you have to make them cross the desert before or swim or doing a triathlon, they both do it.

Starting point is 00:53:13 They have to do it. It's fair. It's not the best condition in terms of performance, but if both guys do it, it's fair. It was 6 a.m. there when they started that main event. But man, I was surprised. He performed very well. If both guys do it, it's a fair. It was 6am there when they started that main event. But man, I was surprised. He performed very well.

Starting point is 00:53:28 I'm friends with Leon Edwards. He's such a nice guy. When I went to England a year and a half ago, I went out with him and Usain Bolt. We had a great time. Wow, that's crazy. He's such a nice guy. I really like him. He's great athlete, but he's got a great personality too.

Starting point is 00:53:51 And man, I'm sure he's going to come back. And then- It'd be interesting to see. I think it really sets up for a nice surprise. Like I don't think a lot of people expected it. What were the odds on it, Nate? Leon was minus 300. Yeah. So I think a lot of people didn't expect it.

Starting point is 00:54:06 So I think it adds just, yeah, it adds to the sport, you know. It makes it exciting. I was very surprised by Bellol, like his transition, the way he... Because he doesn't fight like that all the time. Sometimes he's mostly a striker or, you know what I mean? It was a great mix. Man, he was on point. For that fight, he was really on point.

Starting point is 00:54:26 It was like wow. It was yeah, I thought it was super impressive. It was really cool to watch. It made me just kind of realize even yeah, I didn't expect that much diversity from him. Is this what he said? Balal wants to be greater than GSP for his legacy? He definitely can if he keeps working hard. All records are made to be broken. Do you look back at the times when you were fighting? Would you rather be fighting in this era? Do you love the era you were fighting in? Do you ever think about it in spaces like that?

Starting point is 00:55:08 I think I was extremely lucky to fight in my era. It could have been better. If I would have fought today, I would have made maybe more money because of the social media and all that, but it could have been way worse. If I look at, uh, like in the time of hoist Gracie Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, Don Fry these guys were the real guys man they were fighting two three times a night no rules no weight class man that was insane Ken Shamrock and for me I I I respect these guys a lot because they paved the way for all of us. And they didn't make money, man. It's sad. They didn't make money, man.

Starting point is 00:55:51 They were tough as hell. Is there a union or something that pays for stuff for the pioneers of it? No, there's not. I think it's a question of time. I mean... Yeah, because when you say that... A question of time. I mean, yeah, because when you say that, a question of time. Some guys, they try to do it. It got closed, but then they're always fighting for power. They want to be in control. Certain groups want to be in control and others are wants to take more power. I mean, we all want the same thing. We all want the same thing,

Starting point is 00:56:21 you know, at the end of the day. And I think it's like every sport and hockey, baseball, it's a matter of time. Things were the same. If you look at other sports, they were the same. Guys were underpaid. Their condition were not good. They didn't have any assurance, nothing like that. And, you know, over time, it got better. I think it's only a matter of time.

Starting point is 00:56:38 The only difference is in mixed martial art, UFC has the monopoly. It's a monopoly. Right, it's one show really. Well, they have PBS. Well, yeah, but it's the most... PFL. They have PFL. Yeah, PFL is there. It's growing. Which is very good. PFL is good because it's a competition to UFC, but

Starting point is 00:56:57 UFC is the most prestigious organization. And PFL start to gain a lot of momentum, which is good for fighters because it gives them the ability to negotiate. But when you have only one organization that has all the monopole, all the control, it's hard for fighters, you know. Understood. Is pornography causing a problem in your life? That's a good question.

Starting point is 00:57:21 It's a real question. It has in mind. It has at certain periods in my life. Watching porno and everything and watching porno was making me, it was ruining my life. It was ruining my life, man. Made me feel just so much shame. That's what it did. Well, watching pornography has become commonplace today and often times men will use porno to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety and depression. That's why I want to introduce you to my friend, Steven Wolt.

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Starting point is 00:58:18 There is zero commitment if you reach out to them. It's just the first step in trying to figure out if you may need some help, if you can get to them. It's just the first step in trying to figure out if you may need some help, if you can get some help. To learn more about Valor Recovery, please visit them at ValorRecoveryCoaching.com or email them at admin at ValorRecoveryCoaching.com. The links will be on the YouTube. And again, there's no commitment when you reach out to them. But I promise you, only something positive will come from you reaching out and figuring out what type of help, if any, could benefit you.

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Starting point is 01:00:17 They will announce the giveaway soon. So follow them at Blue Cube Baths. And we wish them the best of luck. Um, and thank them for supporting the podcast so early on. Um, was there ever another fight? That's so great that you and Bisping got to fight. I must have been, this thing's a fun dude. Huh?

Starting point is 01:00:36 He's crazy. He's crazy, dude. He's such a good villain. It's, it's, he is because he knows what he's do. It's like, he's really kind of, uh, he seems to be a guy that's Enjoyed enjoyed it along the way. Yeah, he's got a he's got a mouth that can decimate all all his opponent Yeah, that's a lot of I was like man i'm not gonna get into a trash talk battle with this guy He's an english man. We speak english perfectly. I'm like my English suck. I'm like, what am I going to do with this?

Starting point is 01:01:05 I'm just not also not good at, at, you know, like insulting. But also knowing that that's not your strength, I think was one of your strengths, you know, knowing where to like, I don't know, you always really had kind of a precision. It seemed like for the choices you made, um, did you, you looked at it as a business, I've heard you talk about it before, you looked at it really as a business. Especially if it wasn't something that you even enjoyed on the fight nights. Were you able to pull any real joy out of it over time?

Starting point is 01:01:35 Or was it all, when you finally got done, was it just like, oh thank God. It was a release when I got done, but I had a great moment, a great memory of it. It was a lot of fun. When you win a fight, man, you look back at it and you're thinking, man, everything is worth it. It was all worth it. But when you lose, man, oh God. It's a crazy downfall. That's what makes it so hard. It's the risk, bigger the risk, bigger the reward, right? You're a perfectionist, do you think, then, kind of? Yeah, I was crazy.

Starting point is 01:02:17 I was obsessed. Everything I did was always oriented to try to make me the best fighter. Everything, everything I did. It was a- The best fighter or the best person or the best like- Best fighter. Best fighter, okay.

Starting point is 01:02:31 Person I just, you know, like I was not trying to make, make a, being a character. I was like some guy, they tried to be sort of, some sort of a character, you know? Like some, some good guy tried to be bad guy. You see that very often. Or some, you know, some some good guy tried to be bad guy, you see that very often, or some, you know, some bad guy sort of tried to be nice in front of the camera, but when the camera doesn't roll, they become some douchebag, you see that a lot when you meet

Starting point is 01:02:56 celebrities. But I always try to be true to myself and focus on performance, you know, because at the end of the day, I never day, I never had any personal beef with any of my opponent. He's not a human being. And when I look across the octagon before a fight, I sort of feel like I looked to myself in the mirror because that guy maybe did a similar sacrifice that I did.

Starting point is 01:03:22 So if I disrespect him, it's sort of in the same, in a way, it's like I'm disrespecting myself. So for me, it was just, I was just extremely lucky. Even the guy was talking a lot of trash and stuff. I was lucky to have sort of that moment to shine and you know, to, to, to, that people were aware and I make money with it. And you know, for me, after when it's finished, it's finished, it's not personal. And there's none of the guy that I thought that if they would be in trouble today, I would not hesitate one second to help them. Like if they are at my reach,

Starting point is 01:03:57 I would not hesitate one second to help any of them. And this, I mean it, yeah. That's fascinating to look at your opponent and think what if they made the same sacrifices as I did, then what else can I even do? That's a dude. That's such an intense way to look at the other side of the, at the other person across from you.

Starting point is 01:04:15 Well, but it's not only like they make the same sacrifice, but maybe they didn't have the same opportunities that opens to them. Maybe they were not as lucky as I was. I think the stars need to be aligned. I think life sometimes opens certain opportunities to you that if you wait too much, the door will close and it's gone forever. Yeah, I think it's some of that's true. I mean, you look at the Diaz brothers.

Starting point is 01:04:40 I mean, if you look, you know, Nick took a time off of fighting for years. They made him quit though, didn't they? Yeah, he got suspended for marijuana and he refused to pay the fine and couldn't fight for five years. Exactly. That's one of the, what a waste. He wasn't his prime. I think he could have maybe be champion.

Starting point is 01:05:01 When I retired, I was telling people, I was like, man, if he doesn't, you should push on the gas right now and go, man. That's his time. He should, he should do it. Was there a time where, has there been a fight or something since then you looking like, man, it would have been fun to fight them? Or do you have like moments like that? There's a lot of guys that I wish we would have fight, you know, and that would be big fight. It would have made the story, but, but, you know, like it takes three entity to make a fight. It takes one fighter, the other fighter, it takes the, the promoter as well. And, um, very often the, the promoter didn't reach our demands. You know what I mean? And, uh, it,

Starting point is 01:05:43 everything needs to be aligned for the tree, the tree entities. Yeah. I know people always talk about you and Khabib fighting, you know, did that interest you kind of? So it was the fight that I would have come back for, uh, at the time, not now, now time I've passed, but, but, uh, after I retired, it was one fight I would have, you know, I would have had to go, I would have been Khabib. And what was the most, what challenge, what excited you about that the most? I mean, obviously he was undefeated. He's undefeated, he's got a perfect career, he's the competitor inside of me, what I've done, what I've taken the fight.

Starting point is 01:06:21 That's one of the fights I would have done it, you know, but it needed to be at the right time. And when it was time to do it, UFC didn't wanna do it. So they wait a few years after when we were both retired and the train was passed, the moment was gone. And when Dana called me, I said, I thought it was weird. I was like, are you, like, is Khabib want to fight? Want to fight?

Starting point is 01:06:54 Because he said no in all interviews. He said, no, no, he's down, he's down. I'm like, okay, let me think about it. I'll get back to you. And I thought it was weird. So I called his manager, Ali Abdelaziz, and Ali said, hey man, the timing is not good. It's bullshit. It's not true.

Starting point is 01:07:09 And after I've said, I've told the media what happened. And then I went, I don't do three people calls when I... And I thought it was hilarious, because he's right. You know, he's not going to call a guy and say, hey, no, the other guy doesn't want. No, that's not business. He's exactly. He's a promoter. He's going to say, this guy said this, this, this about you. Do you want to fight him?

Starting point is 01:07:32 And you want to take, you want to use the emotions of course to make you tune in. It's like playing your mom against your dad. It's like, Hey dad, mom said I can do this. And then you go to, Hey mom, dad said I can do this. Neither one of them said they could, but now you're outside. Exactly. It's all a game. It's all a freaking game. And it's a lot of pressure. I think on Dana probably it's a lot of pressure because not only is he the

Starting point is 01:07:54 promoter, but he's also, you have to answer all the questions. And he's in, he's in a business. He's in control of a business. Yeah. It's not up to him. If someone signed a contract that suck, he's not going to say, Hey, you worth more money. You should have, you know what I mean? I mean, man, he's a businessman. He's going to take it and take advantage of you. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not because what I'm saying is it's not easy. And then he's a good guy. I've met him. And when you met him, of course, met him many times, but I met him while I was competing.

Starting point is 01:08:28 So when I was competing and then it called me, I always before I hang up the phone, I was like, shit, take a hit. Hell, try to think of what is the possible thing that he's going to ask me because you need to be quick when he called you. You don't want to say something or you just just say you don't answer or you're like you're always like because this is a game, it's a chess game man with a fight game. Everything you say, everything you do is gonna have an outcome. So you're like okay what he's gonna say this is it. Then you prepare if you're ready you take the call if you're not ready you let okay I'm gonna prepare myself. So that's how it is. Let me call Mike Brown.

Starting point is 01:09:05 Let me get somebody to massage me during the off rounds. But the thing with Dana is my relation has changed over the years because now it's more friendly. He calls me, I'm not even gonna hesitate to say, hey, Dana, what's up? Like whatever, I'm ready for anything. But when I was fighting, it's normal to have that reaction because he's the boss and you know, because he's the boss, and you know,

Starting point is 01:09:25 whatever he's gonna ask you, whatever you say, it's gonna be the whole world gonna know. So you cannot retract what you say. So when he calls you, when I was fighting, I was like, shit, so I started certain instance, I was like, man, I'm not taking the call right now, or I'm gonna call him back, think about what it could. Have a little strategy, yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:44 Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's almost like when your boss says, what are you up to this weekend? Right? You know, if you're boss, but your boss, they want you to work at 4 30 on Saturday, right? And you do not want to. But if you tell them that you're, oh, nothing much, then you're halfway to working. Right So yeah it's interesting when you're the owner it's also hard to be, I bet at times it's probably, maybe it not, I'm not putting words in his mouth or anything but I bet it's tough for him to also be a person. You know, and maybe it's easier after the fact because running a business is totally different than being a human being sometimes.

Starting point is 01:10:21 He takes a lot of eat sometimes and he does a lot of stuff that he needs to do for the best of the best of the UFC interests. And it's normal that he's running a business. And it's worked out because look at the UFC has created opportunity opportunities for so many guys. Well, I had a lot of clash with Dana when I was, I didn't even know that. No, no, we did add a lot of clashes when I was fighting because I attained a certain level of power that he couldn't control me as much. Some of the guys could say, you do this, oh yeah, sir.

Starting point is 01:10:59 Like me, I was like, no, it's not going to work. Because I was making him a lot of profit, a lot of money. So when you, you know, there's a lot of things that they asked me and I said, hell no, I'm not doing it because it's not for the best of my interest. So when, same thing, when you negotiate for a fight, my thing was like, if I'm negotiate for a big fight, why am I gonna do all the interviews, all the promotion

Starting point is 01:11:24 if I don't touch a piece of the pie? You know what I mean? So give me a piece of the pie. So it will encourage me to do more promotion. Because if you don't touch any piece of the pie, if you don't have nothing, why am I going to do this? I'm just going to waste my time while I'm supposed to train and rest. I'm going to do interviews. And your time has become more valuable because you're the champion. Yeah, I think it's interesting when you get to a certain level how the negotiations kind of change.

Starting point is 01:11:52 It has to. It's pretty fascinating. You have to be, to look at it in that way. And were you able to get like pay-per-view points and stuff back then in your fights? Yeah, I'm very like, I had that. Oh, congratulations, man. Yeah, thank you.

Starting point is 01:12:05 But the thing is, there's a lot of guys in the business that in this industry that are not well managed, you know, they don't ask for what they worth and they kind of afraid or you know, they don't take right decision. And it's not Dana's job to say, hey, I think you should ask for a raise or it's not Dana's job to say hey I think you should ask for a raise or it's not gonna do that he's the boss he's on the other side of the so that the fight game you're fighting for a contract this should be your manager's fight you have someone that look for the best of your interests and that's one one fight and the fight the other fight isn't the octagon yeah oh well it's

Starting point is 01:12:44 fascinating you know I think that a lot of that happens with art when art or That's one fight and the other fight is in the octagon. Yeah. So. Well, it's fascinating. You know, I think that a lot of that happens with art when art or talent turns into business. There's this other element that comes on, you know, and sometimes you have to trust your instincts and sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong, but that's how you hone your instincts to be sharper too is by using them, you know? And, um, and yeah, I bet it's tricky probably for Dana because I bet there's a lot of guys that he super cares about and, and, but he

Starting point is 01:13:06 also has to run a business, you know? So I can't imagine that's gotta be, um, it's gotta be tricky, you know? And I think also you hear the nicest stuff, like you'll hear like all the stuff he does from his employees or places that he tries to help out. During COVID, he didn't, he didn't lay off for nobody. It's amazing. I called him the other day, asking him for some help with something. I know that, so you know he's a great guy.

Starting point is 01:13:29 I think he's also a great businessman. 100%. He's a great person too. He's a great guy. And fighters, like, I mean, guys that are listening to us now, when they're in middle of a competition, you know, like when they're competing, they might not have that relationship

Starting point is 01:13:45 with Dana because Dana is on the other side. So it's always like a fight relationship. But once they're going to retire, they're going to see a total different person, you know, like same thing with the Fertite brother. Like these guys are all great guys, you know, and every time I meet them, you know, it's a, Hey, what's up? Big hug. Dana, the Fertitta brother, all these guys. Yeah, we're all friends here.

Starting point is 01:14:09 Everything we did, the clashes that we had, it was because we were fighting for the best of our interests and it's normal, it's just business. And I think if you wanna be successful, especially as an athlete in mixed martial art, you need to build a team. You can't do all that by yourself because you don't, you don't have all the credential

Starting point is 01:14:29 to do all the jobs. You need to have lawyers, you need to find a team of people that you can trust and people that have competence. Because sometimes people, they hire people who trust, but they turn out to be incompetent. It's bad because it's going to make you do like, how do you say, like air bike. You're not going to go forward. You're going to spin, spin, spin.

Starting point is 01:14:57 And if you have someone who's competent, but someone that you cannot trust, maybe he's going to screw you down the road. It's tough man. Starting to run a business or work with people, it's hard. But then you also like, I mean, one thing is like, people criticize Dana and the UFC, but no other promotion has been able to sustain itself and establish itself and make it go that, you know,

Starting point is 01:15:21 and flourish. So I think it's fascinating. And I think it's, um, it's fascinating. And I think it is probably, I think he'll be studied one day in the sense by business people. I mean, I can't even imagine because you have so many guys that are really putting their lives on the line. And then you ha you know, I just can't imagine it. It's gotta be a lot, you know? Um, what, what keeps you busy these days? Do you still get those dinosaur updates? Remember you were always... Yeah, I love paleontology.

Starting point is 01:15:47 What is it about it that you think you love? I was thinking about this the other day. When I was young, I was always fascinated by dinosaurs. And actually when I took my time off after my fight with Johnny Hendrix, I spent four years like, I was always training, but I spent time, I went on different sites. No way. Yeah, I, you know, I'm very lucky because a lot of the, it turns out that a lot of the big paleontologists that I've met, they're a fan of mixed martial arts.

Starting point is 01:16:20 Really? Yeah, so I was able to have special access on different, different big sites. Probably mostly of John Bones Jones, you know. I'm just guessing. No, it was incredible. I traveled across the world. I went on different sites, but I realized also something. As much as I love paleontology, I realized that I would never be able to do this because I thought that if I would not be a fighter,

Starting point is 01:16:45 I would have maybe be a paleontologist. And no, that's not true. I would not never be able to be on a big site for hours. Like, sick, sick, sick, sick, sick. Like, no. It ain't me. No, I can't. I love to acquire the knowledge,

Starting point is 01:16:57 but I would not have the patience to go out there. I saw some incredible sites. I went in, man, I went in a place, in an area in Argentina, in Pantagonia. It was in the morning, the sun rises and I could see, I'm not kidding you, like thousands of dinosaurs egg-shelled. They were egg-shelled of titanosaurs,

Starting point is 01:17:20 the long neck dinosaurs. Oh yeah. Man, it was insane. And you had to watch to not step on it. Like fossilized eggshells. Some of them were broken. So that means the animal was about to get out. It was insane. Like I saw some of the craziest sight.

Starting point is 01:17:36 And that was a dig that they were doing? Yeah, yeah. Like an actual site. They were digging. They were excavating like eggshells. I saw like, I went on a place and I think it was in Dakota, it was with a professor, I think it was Professor Pearson. It was a, they don't know what it was, but they found a sort of a graveyard of triceratops. In South Dakota? I think it was South Dakota or

Starting point is 01:18:00 Wyoming. Yeah, triceratops, It was from the late Cretaceous. And you could see that the, some of the leg bone of triceratops that were sliced because of Tyrannosaurus Rex. Yeah. So they found Tyrannosaurus Rex teeth there. It was just insane. So you're a promoter really, when he goes back to the, to the paleontological ages, dude, you were a damn promoter, bro. You to put some of those things in the ring, bro. I think maybe one day we'll be able to,

Starting point is 01:18:29 I think they want to resurrect the mammoth now, I think to put it back in Siberia. Yeah. Didn't they say they can recreate a willy mammoth? Did I read that somewhere? I think they're going to use Asian elephant and just do a wig or whatever. Put a mammoth inside and yeah, try to recreate it.

Starting point is 01:18:45 Yeah, put it in Siberia. What weight class is that gonna be? There's different species of mammoth. There's woolly mammoth, Colombian mammoth. So, depend which species they wanna, at least the woolly mammoth they wanna bring back. Let me see, a biotech company that hopes to resurrect extinct species said Wednesday

Starting point is 01:19:04 that it has reached an important milestone. The creations of a long-sought kind of stem cell for the closest living relative of the woolly mammoth. And now the company says scientists have for the first time created induced pluripotent stem cells for the mammoth's closest living relative, Asian elephants. Oh damn. It says scientists can now use, try to use cloning techniques and gene editing to manipulate the cells in hopes of someday

Starting point is 01:19:32 creating elephants with key traits of mammoths. Wow, so kind of like a bit of a remix kind of, such as their heavy coats and their layers of fat that enabled them to survive in cool climates. Dude, that's what the zoo needs, because honestly, dude, the zoo, some of the animals are fucking not, even in America, some of the animals are smoking,

Starting point is 01:19:51 they don't even care, you know? They're not even cool. It's sad when you don't see them in their natural environment. Yeah. In a way, they do it, of course, because it's not accessible to everyone. For example, if you want to see a lion,

Starting point is 01:20:04 you go to Africa, it costs a lot of money. But to see, you know, I've been in zoos before and I like to see animals in their natural environment. You think you could take any animals? Are there any animals you think you could take? And we're so weak, man. And nature is crazy. Apparently they say that even a chimp would kill you.

Starting point is 01:20:25 Yeah, that's what they say, I can just pull your fucking balls off. Yeah, pull your balls, break your fingers, and rip your face, you know that. When they go on crime scenes where chimps turns against the human, that's what happened. It's crazy, man.

Starting point is 01:20:39 I would hate that. Because you cannot reproduce, you cannot climb away, and they take away your identity. I went to Rwanda, I had the chance to do a gorilla trekking. And you see them like I'm seeing you. Nuh-uh, this close. Yeah, that close. So when you go there, it's like... Rwanda.

Starting point is 01:20:59 Yeah, in Rwanda, in Africa, in East Africa. And you take a car, it's about two hours away from Kigali, which is I think the capital. You go there and they give you a course. They tell you don't eat, if the gorilla look at you, don't look him in the eyes. If he comes towards you, don't run away. Just get out of the way and put your knee on the floor

Starting point is 01:21:20 in a submissive pause. Don't talk loud, don't ever touch the female and the kid. And when I went there, it was amazing. Oh yeah. Is this it, Nick? Yeah, yeah, that's what it is, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, bro. Okay, so this guy, let me tell you about this one.

Starting point is 01:21:39 And why'd you dress for a funeral, too? Listen to, guys, guys, this is very interesting. So you see what happened, okay? So during one instant, during my adventure there, I was with different people that were older than me. And I don't know what happened. At one point, the gorilla, because what happened is you hang out with the kids and the female and the young. And once every 20 or 15 minutes, the big silverback comes and you make a noise.

Starting point is 01:22:15 And the guide that is with you, every day he sees the same family. So he's used to seeing the same guide. But the tourists change. So the guide always answer back, grrr, to tell, hey, we're here. So he comes and sometime he look around to see if everything is okay. And then he goes back in the forest every 10 minutes approximately.

Starting point is 01:22:34 But once he came and he look at me. Did he give your belt with you? Hey, no, no, man. He look at me and when he look at me, I look at him just very fast and he started walking towards me like he was pissed. Man, I got out of the way and I put my knees down and I'm not a religious guy at all, but I became religious at that day.

Starting point is 01:22:55 I was like, please, please, please, please. And then I opened my eyes. He's not in front of me. I look behind, I see his back. He put his backs against me. He explained to me the I see his back, he put his backs against me. He explained to me the reason why the gorilla, he turned his back to me, is because he wanted to show me how much

Starting point is 01:23:11 I'm not of a threat for him. To show you, like he turned his back and he looked underneath his arm. So when I look back, I was like, man, I saw his back. He was just a threat, a test. I was like, man, he would have, even with all my years of training, he would have ripped me apart, man. Did you feel like you stood any chance? Like even, man, he would have, even with all my years of training, he would have ripped me apart, man.

Starting point is 01:23:26 Did you feel like you stood any chance? Like even you think he could have got it to two rounds or no? I read a document. Apparently it's a report in, I think it's in Uganda. I read there's a military guy that a gorilla grab and he, he pull, he rip his head off like this. Like straight up from a horror movie. He grab him and it's that strong. So there's nothing you can do, man. But what would you have done, you think? I think I would have tried to play dead.

Starting point is 01:23:54 There's nothing you can do. If he wants to kill you. Don't play alive. The guy has two guys with him, with AK-47. So they help. No, no, but you know, he told me it's not because of the gorilla. It's in case we see an elephant or a Cape buffalo.

Starting point is 01:24:09 Apparently there is, it's so dense, I don't understand. Apparently sometimes you could run through a Cape buffalo and they're extremely territorial. Was that scarier than beating the cage? Well, it happens so fast, it's very different because it happens so fast that you don't have time to prepare, so you just go with the flow. So I didn't even have time to be scared that much. I was just, I was trying, I was like, man, please, please, please.

Starting point is 01:24:36 Then I look, he's in the back and I see his back and I could see the muscle through the fur. I was like, man, it's so massive. It's insane. Pete Peterson's just standing there. That'd be crazy. Man, it was one of the most incredible adventure of my life. I recommend it to everyone. And the money that you pay for that adventure is given to the gorilla. And now the gorilla in Rwanda and that part of the world are flourishing again. Oh, it's beautiful. So it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. It is awesome to take care of our planet and to give world are flourishing again. Oh, it's beautiful. So it's a beautiful thing, yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:05 It is awesome to take care of our planet and to give back to it, you know? Because it's funny, because somebody probably saw a gorilla one day and even thought about getting in shape for the first time, you know what I'm saying? You just don't know what we learn from animals, you know? What keeps you busy these days, man? Well, I'm involved with, I have a home fitness equipment brand

Starting point is 01:25:23 called Base Blocklock Pro. It's all kinds of apparel that you can use and train at home. Is it Canada or US as well? Kinesthetics, all around the world. I need to get something for home. It's light, you can put some of them are outdoor friendly so you can put it in your backyard.

Starting point is 01:25:42 Some I recommend it's more for backyard to put outside and some are more for inside for home. And yeah, it's great. I don't lift, I never lift weight pretty much and I'm a big fan of kinesthetics. I used to when I was younger to lift weight but I realized that it's more efficient to train kinesthetics.

Starting point is 01:26:03 Especially when you're- And kinesthetics is what? Yeah, gymnastics. Your own body weight? Yes, exactly. So you have less risk of injuries and I think it's more efficient. Base blocks. Yes.

Starting point is 01:26:14 Oh, sweet man. I gotta get something else for my home. I'm just getting a treadmill. So I gotta have something else for when I can't go down to the gym. I'll send you some. I'll tell my guy. I'll hook you. That'd be awesome to have one man. Tell me which one you like I recommend you the big bar pro this one. Mm-hmm. You put if you have a backyard put in your backyard It's it's outdoor friendly. And if you want that like for your legs, this one is very good. You is for hamstring

Starting point is 01:26:38 Oh, I don't care about the legs. Tell me I'm up top. No, I'll send you some stuff I'll tell the guy to send you some stuff. You'll be more than happy. Are there some fighters right now that you love to watch that you kind of cheer on? Do you find yourself being a fan of MMA still? I mean, I know it's obviously been such a huge part of your life. I don't know if it's something you just kind of close or if it's something that's always in you kind of. One thing that has changed and now there's so many fights, there's almost every weekend.

Starting point is 01:27:02 So I can't watch it all. I can't watch all the shows, but I love to watch some of the guys that I can learn from. I like to watch Tom Aspenall. Yeah, he's fun. The fight of last weekend, Balal Mohammed, Leon Edwards, I watch it. I like Kamaruzman, Adesanya, Wakanowsky, Makachev. I like to watch the best so I can learn from them. Is it weird to look at them and be like, that was me?

Starting point is 01:27:31 Because I think even as a comedian, I'll watch comedy sometimes and I'll be like, it doesn't seem like, I know it's a different person, but it doesn't even seem like that's my job. Does that ever happen to you? Do you ever have like this Clark Kent feeling when you're walking down the street that you're also Superman? I mean... No, I think what made me good is because I possess certain set of skills that made me unique.

Starting point is 01:27:57 But some of the guys that are competing now, they have their own set of skills. And I think I can learn from them. By watching them, I'm learning from them. And, you know, of course, think I can learn from them. You know, by watching them, I'm learning from them. And you know, of course it may, maybe they can learn from me or so it's impossible to be completely, a hundred percent well rounded. You always have certain things that you do better than, than, than others. And that's why I like the sport so much. Some guys are better at, for example, at, at grappling guy's strength might be his ground and pound. One guy might be his submission skills.

Starting point is 01:28:28 One guy might be his, you know, like Pereira. He's got an incredible left hook. Unbelievable. We all know he's got a left hook, but nobody... They all know the left hook is coming, but they don't know how to stop it. Yeah. It's crazy.

Starting point is 01:28:41 And left hook is one of the most fundamental punch that you learn in day one. And it works. It's one of the most basic weapon, but he does it so well. He hides it so well. And the way he does it, even though it's so basic, nobody can stop it. It's crazy. That's fascinating almost, isn't it? How something simple can be and so obvious in a way can be so surprising. You use different diversion, different distraction to get it on. It's crazy.

Starting point is 01:29:17 And that's what I like about the sport. It's like a chess game, you know? Oh, it's fascinating too. I think as, you know, I've been a fan now, like a big fan for probably know? Oh, it's fascinating too. I think as, you know, I've been a fan now, like a big fan for probably maybe almost six or seven years now. And you get to know the fighters more a little bit too on a personal, you know, like because there's so much social media,

Starting point is 01:29:36 you get to know more about them and kind of cheer for them in different ways and stuff. But there's all types of guys who are outspoken. There's guys who are kind of reserved. There's guys who are playing cat and mouse. And there's guys who are guys who are outspoken. There's guys who are kind of reserved. There's guys who are playing cat and mouse. And there's guys who are just about getting in the ring. Have you gotten into anything else competitive? Is there something else that you do?

Starting point is 01:29:53 I used to, when I was young, I used to play chess. You really? Yeah. Growing up, I was more of a nerd at school. And I was victim of bullying at school. So that's why I started martial art. I started karate at a young age as a self defense. Then later on it developed into a passion,

Starting point is 01:30:14 passion to transform into a way I make a living. You should pull up on those guys right now. But I used to, I remember in order to miss school, I was enrolling into chess competition because I was representing my school. And then once you win the school, you go to, how do you say, the regional. And then once I go to regional, you go to Montreal where it's the provincial. And I never made it past that. I want the school, I want the regional, but when I went to Montreal, I never

Starting point is 01:30:49 even won a match in the provincial because these guys, that's what they do. You know, that's their, you know, me, I was just doing that for fun and I was a kid back then, so it was fun. Yeah. Well, you found other ways to win, man. Oh yeah, the Olympics are going on. Oh that's the Olympics man. It's crazy, there's big people like now they talk about what happened, the controversy, the... The woman fighter you mean?

Starting point is 01:31:19 Yeah, no, they talk about the ceremony, the opening ceremony. Oh yeah, they thought it was anti-Catholic. Yes, I was in Miami when that happened and I saw on the news, I was like, man, I'm gonna try to watch it, but now they took it out of YouTube, so I don't think you can see it anymore. That's crazy. So I tried to find a way, but I just saw some part of it

Starting point is 01:31:43 and I speak French, I was like, God damn. I was like, yeah, I mean, it's weird. I try to not be politic, but there are certain things that, man, it's like, is there a darkness at home? You know, like you don't have to show the world, you know, I don't care who you sleep with, what you do. I mean, I like you as a person. If you know what I mean? Yeah, this seems a little crazy for the Olympics, I think. Yeah, yeah. It changes.

Starting point is 01:32:04 That's one thing that changed over the year. Like we didn't have that before, you know? This is kind of, it seems crazy. Like maybe the world is so crazy that I don't even know the world anymore. That's what I start to wonder too sometimes. Yeah. But yeah, this stuff seems like, what do we do?

Starting point is 01:32:18 What sport is this? Yeah, it's a... That's what I don't know. It's just what sport is it, but I mean, I probably, you know, I don't know. It's a different time is it? But I mean, I probably you know, I don't know It's a different time. I mean, I don't know what to make of it I mean it it's dark forces at play. It feels like sometimes I Am not you're like going down the conspiracy rabbit hole though It's fun. And and also the crazy part about the conspiracies is remember during like pandemic

Starting point is 01:32:41 Like they said all these things and half of them were true. And it was like, well, fucking. I, uh, I was very angry about what was going on in, in, uh, in Canada. I didn't like the way it was, uh, it was, uh, run, uh, during the pandemic. I was very pissed off. I didn't like it. I, I think it was an attack on our freedom. Uh, we had curfew and this and and this I'm not afraid of some people like,

Starting point is 01:33:08 Oh, you shouldn't become a political. This is not right. This is about, I think it's about freedom. I was not happy about what the decisions that were made. I think it was an attack on the freedom. And I think everybody should have had the decision of choosing the right to make the decision. Do I want to be vaccinated or not? But if you're not vaccinated, you're not allowed to do this, do this. Like man, you have no life. Unbelievable.

Starting point is 01:33:35 This was wrong. I don't agree with that decision. Yeah, it started to feel like privatized communism to me in a way. It's like, you know, it's like the bait of the government, but really it's like private entities doing it. And I wish I'd spoken up more. I think there were times for me, you know, I just felt like kind of scared or I didn't feel brave or I didn't know some things. They would have canceled you. But that's crazy. Could have canceled you. That's, that's the thing. That's a, that's the thing about it. It's, I mean, it depends in Nashville. I don't know Nashville, Tennessee, right? Yeah. They can't, they can't really cancel you that much there. Yeah. But in Canada, that was different. Like people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, Nashville, Tennessee, right? Yeah, they can't really see that much there. Yeah, but in Canada, it's different.

Starting point is 01:34:09 Like, people don't understand, but it was different. We had a curfew, it was crazy. Like, man, I couldn't get out of the country. I had business to do. My business is international, I had to travel, so I had no choice, I did it. But I think I was not agree with the decision. Yeah. And there's my right to say so. Right. And if I would have said it at a time, maybe they would have like put down my Instagram,

Starting point is 01:34:35 put down all my stuff. I know that's what they, it's really, it feels like big tech is kind of the government now, you know, but, um, man, it's just an honor to sit down with such a champion these days and, uh, just get to have a chance to spend time with know, but, um, man, it's just an honor to sit down with such a champion these days and just get to have a chance to spend time with you, uh, George. And, um, do you, you know, they have the thing in the Olympics right now. They have a boxer who they, who has like, oh yeah, it's a female boxer, right? And, but she, um, she was born a female and is a female. Let me say her name, Iman Khalif? Yeah, Algeria.

Starting point is 01:35:08 Iman Khalif. And, and she's crushing it and she hasn't won all of her fights and, but there's people like, it's been a huge uproar online because I guess she had higher testosterone levels and she wasn't allowed to compete in the world boxing championships. Do you think at some point, because this just appears to be something that kind of happens more where there's some gray area in between gender right? Yeah. Do you think they should just have a new division? Well, this I don't know enough information about that particular situation to give an opinion on it.

Starting point is 01:35:46 Because I might... You're wrong. But one thing I can tell you. When a man is born... When you're born as a man and then you change your sex and then after you go compete as a woman. This I think is disgusting. This I'm not afraid to say it and stand up for that because I love women and I think they need to be protected especially in combat sports. I agree I want everybody to have equal rights but when you have someone

Starting point is 01:36:19 who's born as a man who changes sex as a woman and then compete. I think he should have his own category. That would be fair because otherwise it's unfair. We're different. Like, I mean, why? Okay, I'm going to change my sex and go compete in the UFC and make a comeback in the woman division. What do you think can happen? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:36:40 It's not fair. Maybe some of them will kick my ass, but I think I will do pretty well. Andrade might give you a run. There's a couple ladies out there that would give you a run. But I agree. And they should solve it. I think it's not fair also if people

Starting point is 01:36:54 are dealing with this, their own sexual identity, and they don't know. Create a new division so that they can be there and be the pioneers of a new division. Then that way, it's like they're getting to be the pioneers of a new division you know it's like then that way it's like they're getting to be a part of something new they're getting to fight against like-minded people I don't know but I agree they should have their own division I think if you're born in a different gender because man it's really not fair people have no idea the difference but man it's it's

Starting point is 01:37:22 huge difference I mean it's a huge difference oh god it's it's huge difference. It's a huge difference. Oh God, we've seen in tennis, I think it's Serena Williams, she played tennis against ... Oh yeah, she got defeated. It was done in boxing too. A few time, she's a Dutch champion in kickboxing. She fought a man in boxing. And tennis is different because it's a game. Basketball, it's a game.

Starting point is 01:37:50 But when it's combat sport, I think we should protect the woman. And the men should speak up for that. The men should speak up for that. The problem sometimes when you speak up to that, you get point by the finger and, ah, this is unfair, but... That's the media that's fucking... they're sick.

Starting point is 01:38:09 But here is, um, there's a fight in BJJ actually in... is it this... Craig Jones Invitational, he's doing his tournament the same weekend as ADCC, and the main event is going to be him versus Gabby Garcia. Oh. and the main event is gonna be him versus Gabby Garcia. Oh, so now this though they're both agreeing that they want to do it. I'm sorry for my ignorance is Gabby Garcia is a female. She's a female, female like she's not like a... Yeah, okay, okay, okay. But lots of help.

Starting point is 01:38:44 Yeah, yeah, of course course a lot of enhancement okay wow but is he is it like a like a novelty fight sort of or more like a he's competing against the adcc so he's doing this to get all the eyeballs on it he's doing it the same weekend it's interesting yeah because craig john is one of the best grappler of the planet yeah for sure i wanted so he's probably gonna i mean sure. I mean, I don't know. I don't know enough about Gabby. So yeah, I heard about that event that it was like a million dollar event and in the same time as the Abu Dhabi event, but I don't know all the detail on it.

Starting point is 01:39:22 Wow. Oh my God. Okay. That's her. That is her, my gosh, boy. I am. She's bigger than him, right? I gotta get to the gym. Oh, but Craig Jones is one of the best.

Starting point is 01:39:38 Yeah, it should be interesting. What about just in Jiu Jitsu? Can women compete as well in there if there's not striking? Well, they can compete women against women, but... Against men it's still... Well, look... The strength. The strength is different. And there's a lot of factor to... I mean, I'm not a specialist in that, but the bone density, there's a lot of factors. I mean, there's things...

Starting point is 01:40:06 First, I think women are better than men. They can give birth and there's... We couldn't... We couldn't endure that. Like, women are better than men, you know? This is what I believe. But there's one thing that we have better than what we have... Normally, we're more physically stronger. And we have certain advantage. And that's why there's different category. There's this man and the woman. And that's why, you know, to make it fair. But Jiu Jitsu is the same thing.

Starting point is 01:40:36 Of course, if you take a woman, for example, who has a lot of experience, make her fight a man who does not have any experience, the woman can kick his ass. 100%, but if you go to the elite level, it will be pretty unlikely. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:40:54 It'd be interesting though. Yeah. Now that kind of stuff I think is a little bit more, you know, it's like we're both agreeing to do this thing. You know? Roch, man, thanks so much, dude. Thank you, man. So cool. Thank you for having me, man. I'm happy to be. Thank you, Matthew. So cool.

Starting point is 01:41:05 Thank you for having me, man. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, it's really awesome and just really cool to be in the presence of somebody that's achieved such greatness in their life that got in and got out. And yeah, do you have any other big goals in your life right now, do you feel like? Well, I... You feel pretty content? Or does that...

Starting point is 01:41:22 Does a person that's a perfectionist kind of, I'm kind of a perfectionist too, I think. Do you ever get content, do you feel like? I never, I'm never satisfied. Now I'm more of an entrepreneur now and that's my goal. I'm very lucky I was able to transfer that hunger that I had in mixed martial art. I wanted to be the best, be the champion. I transfer that hunger that I had in mixed martial art. I wanted to be the best, be the champion.

Starting point is 01:41:46 Now I transfer it into business or into my person. I wanted to be a better person and I'm happy. Like if things go well for me, I have enough to live for the rest of my life. If I don't go crazy and I'm, you know what I mean? I'm trying to be happy. I think the ultimate goal, right, for everyone is to be happy. Oh, for sure.

Starting point is 01:42:07 There is different ways that you can use to attain that feeling, but it's to be happy, you know? And right now I'm very happy, I'm healthy, I'm happy. Are your parents pretty proud of you? Yeah, they're very happy. My parents, in the beginning, they didn't want me to fight.

Starting point is 01:42:24 They, and I understand them. It's not something that you want. It's not a life that you wish for someone you love. You know what I like? Most kids, you tell them not to fight. Man, I'm gonna tell you something that happened to me all the time. There is parent that comes to me with their kids

Starting point is 01:42:41 and they're like, hey, George, this is the future world champion. And then I go, Oh, hi, how old are you? He's 12 years old. Oh yeah. You train martial arts. Yeah, it's good. But remember something, stay at school, man, and you need to be educated.

Starting point is 01:42:59 That's your number one priority. And the problem that a lot of athletes and and not only in MMA, in everything, in Canada we have a lot of that example in hockey, but it could be basketball, football, a lot of athletes they put their eggs all in the same basket. So they all dream to be a professional athlete, but something happened. They get hit by a car, boom, or they get an injury like they break their ACL or their knees or something happened. Now their career is gone. They're never gonna come back the same. And what happened if that incident happened when you're like in your late 20s? There's nothing that you can fall back into if you don't have school. There's nothing. So it's an

Starting point is 01:43:41 assurance. I quit school when I was fighting Matthews, before my fight with Matthews. So my parents forced me to stay at school to stay educated. And it was one of the best things that they did. Because you quit college then? Oh, I wanted to quit everything, but I was studying in kinesiology. But I didn't like what I was doing at the time. I didn't like what I was doing at the time. I didn't know. I was changing all the time.

Starting point is 01:44:07 One time I tried to be a fireman. I had many jobs. One time I was working in nightclubs as a security. And to pay my university fee, I was a garbage man for seven months. Really? Yeah, I collect the garbage, man. That's what I did.

Starting point is 01:44:23 And I did it. But I was always forced, my parent always forced me to stay educated. And when I tell the kids, I say, man, train, you know, but I wish you the best, but the huds of success are very low. You know, and even you're so talented and you work really hard, that does not mean you're gonna make it. Because that chance or success are so low. Make sure you stay educated. And if something goes wrong and you cannot achieve it, at least you have something to fall back into. And maybe you're gonna change your mind.

Starting point is 01:44:58 You know what I mean? You're not the same person at 15 that you will be at 20 and at 25. Things changes. I didn't know what I wanted to become when I was young. And I'm sure the same for you. Like I wanted to be a cop at one point. Then I wanted to be a fireman.

Starting point is 01:45:15 Then I'm like, oh, I wanted to do a therapist. Then a paleontologist. Then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna be a fighter. You know what I mean? But the fighter was always in my mind since the beginning, but I needed to have a backup plan. I didn't know what to do. I realized when I had my first title shot

Starting point is 01:45:33 that it was an opportunity of a lifetime. And that's when I had a talk with my parent. I told my parents, I said, listen, I'm gonna quit the next session because I'm gonna train full-time because I have a title shot. If that doesn't work, I can always go back next season to school, but the title shot might never come present.

Starting point is 01:45:55 The chance for the title might not ever present itself again. So I'm going to take a chance and I'm going to go full out. And I went full out. I lost my first title shot, but I rebound immediately. And then I ended up winning the title. And that's all everything started for me in the UFC. Did they come to your fights to your folks? I'm sorry.

Starting point is 01:46:14 Did they come to your fights? They came to my fight. My, my parent, when it was local, but when I, my mom came to my fight when I fought for the title in Sacramento, when I won the title. But my dad doesn't like to fly. He's afraid of airplanes. It's crazy. He's afraid of airplanes. You're afraid of nothing, which is kind of ironic. I'm afraid of a lot of things, but I'm willing to do it. That's the difference. Thank you so much, George St. Pierre. I appreciate your time.

Starting point is 01:46:43 And yeah, just helping us learn more about fighting and more about the mentality of, of being a champion and, um, and the ups and downs of it, you know, that not everything's perfect, but, um, but that we keep moving forward and challenging ourselves. I appreciate it so much, man. All right. Thank you, man. Thank you for the opportunity.

Starting point is 01:46:58 I appreciate it. I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this piece of mind I found I can feel it in my bones But it's gonna take a little

This Past Weekend - E523 Georges St-Pierre

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