This Podcast Is... Uncalled For - Discussion on Pet Names (Don't Call Me Darling!)

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Today Mike and Heather engage in a discussion on pet names - words like "babe" and "darling" - and when (or if) it's okay to use those words. Word to the wise: unless you're in a committed relationship with Mike, don't use these words.

Hi, I'm Mike Chernivsky, and your listen to this podcast is Un Called for. All right. Welcome to the podcast. Heather, we'll be joining us later. But today we want to talk about the use of pet names. You know which names I'm talking about. They're the words that, to borrow from South Park, get crossed out when you write Christian music. So you take regular old songs. You're crescent with a baby

and dining and you replace it with Jesus. You know, so those types of names. There is a term for that.

I'm not going to look it up right now, but there's a term to cover all these types of names why I wanted to talk about this is I don't like it

when people who frankly don't know me had never met me in person would use these names as though we're in a relationship or something so it's bad enough that I get to babes

and huns and darling I'll just go into the convenience store. You know, look, you don't know me. We're not in a relationship, so please don't use that kind of language towards me. Sir is perfectly acceptable. All right. And I know there's a joke there. In the military, you don't say, sir.

say sir to someone who's not an officer. Don't call me, sir. I work for a living. But in this particular context and a civilian context, it's perfectly fine. All right. What's not fine is having those terms of endearment used towards you, but someone who frankly don't know, and this came to a head for me this past Tuesday, what I'm recording this. So for context, this is someone I've been messaging with But we never met We have never met in person

So you can imagine how upset I Would feel When this out They started this particular conversation on the Tuesday Hello darling Hello Hello

Once again, I have never met this person in person. So, how are you doing today, baby? I'm doing okay. So this is me talking right now. Could you do me a huge favor, though, and not use pet names towards me? I really think those should be saved for when I'm in an actual relationship with someone.

Hell, I don't like them with the cashier at the convenience store uses those pet names towards me. What do you mean? Is this message for me? Well, yeah, clearly it is. Yes, I don't like being called baby or darling, so unless we're in a serious relationship, which we are not. Never mind.

Yeah. I can only imagine how women must feel in those. situations these are words I would not use unless I were in such a relationship I'm sure Heather has a little more to add to that and I'd be interested in hearing her take on this but no sir is perfectly acceptable for me if you do know my name Mike is fine Michael my legal name. It's hard that's only really used by family. You know, the other people insist, you say, don't ever call me Mikey. All right, that's how I find that a little degrading.

So, don't call me Mikey. If you went to West, odds are you're calling me ski, which is probably fine. No, my last name is Cheneff Ski. So, yeah, last syllable on my name, which is an immatally difficult name for most people to spell, let alone pronounce. So ski is perfectly fine. A ski dog is acceptable. Just don't add some insults to it. I do distinguish remember ski tard. That is beyond offensive.

and I won't accept it. I didn't accept it back in the name. I feel like I could probably handle it a little better now. So, those are your options with me. Mike, Michael, Ski, Ski, Doug, Mr. Chenevsky. Sir, those are all acceptable, but baby, darling, hon, honey, those those types of a cute pat i'm certainly not cute but uh those types of words uh i try not to use them myself um unless it's in an appropriate context and uh that's all i'm going to say on the

subject and I'm going to take a quick break and I will let Heather talk about the women's perspective of such names. So back in a second. All right. Have her. Good to see you again. I. It's good to be back. It's good to be back. How are you today, Michael? I'm doing good. Yeah, fantastic. I'm suddenly hyper aware of calling, you know, like you or anybody else by their name. I mean, it would sound weird if all of a sudden I was like, hey, thanks, sugar dumbling honey pie. So, on the record, Mike or Michael is fine. If you are a West sky, ski is fine.

Ski is fine. Don't ever call me Mikey. Okay, got you. Thank you. thank you i'm not mike feels i'm not prone to mike myself but mike or michael i am so i don't have as strong yeah i don't think heather has that main nick to begin with yeah what about heath it just doesn't yeah like yeah it kind of changes it so i agree now i will say that within the realm of what we're talking about so do you want to introduce what we're talking about

Are you kind of, where are we at? We're just jumping right in? We're just jumping right in because I've already done the preamble. Yeah, I like it. So I, you know, just as far as, like, being a woman in the world, I don't have probably as strong of a feeling as I've heard some women have regarding, like, being called pet names and things of that sort. I'm actually prone to pet names myself.

Like when I'm substitute teaching, almost all the kids are sugar because names are important and how people feel. about their name is important and making sure people feel like respected and seen is important to me and so being able to connect and students like we live in a world where names and pronouns are very relevant part of our culture and our social dynamics and so recognizing those things is just something that's important to me and there's a lot and sometimes they change and sometimes they change more than once so sugar is just something that I've been able to kind of land with that is both gender neutral pronoun neutral it's just very

like soft but it's not sweetie it's not too too affectionate it's right it's but i yeah um i could see i could see like in your text messages so you said she started out like that was she'd been kind of like after a couple of exchanges that that sort started to you know the babes and the darlings like we're not in the relationship all we've done is a message each other from time and not even a regular thing like you know that's that's not a relationship and again I never met this person in person Sophie if you're if a woman calls you babe or baby to you that's you're like this that's a very intimate or affectionate term of deermint. Exactly. Hun is another one. Yeah. Yeah,

Hunt, short for Honey. I could see that as well. It's fitting right in there. Yeah. So are there, um, like nicknames and I don't want to use it like, because those are more like pet names. Yeah. Right. So outside of that, like, I don't know, are there any that you would see yourself being comfortable with? I just went over a few. Well, no, yeah, but I mean like outside of that, like if it, if somebody who didn't know you and was like, hey man, for example, like is that, That's fine. Sir.

Sir is a good one. Sir is a good one. And I raised my kids this way. I was raised and I tell the kids all the time. Foremost influential words in the English language are please, thank you, sir, and ma'am. Those four words in conjunction with each other will get open and close more doors and windows for you than any other words that there are. Right. That's just being respectful.

Yeah. Absolutely. If you ever hear me say, pal? Yeah. Pal's a good one? Not a good one. Oh, so Powell is one of those for you. That's like, I crush your heart.

Yeah. It's one of those that has that alternate meaning. Have often died. I don't think. Okay. So if you're like, all right, pal, then I know you're like, you're pissed off. Yeah. We're seeing Mike.

Someone, so like if somebody was like, hey, Mikey, your response to that would be like, hey, pal. Exactly. What, okay. That's our thing, yeah. So do you have a history with that particular name with Mikey? My mother used to rest in peace. She used to do that from time. Miss use her from time.

Don't ever help me, Mikey. Yeah, I won't. I won't. Outside of this conversation, used for context. Yeah, I won't. Because, again, names are important. That's a thing. That is a thing.

You know, again, as a woman, so I will speak and reference my experience, my lifelong experience with this, I have been pet named my entire life. I was getting coffee just the other day at a local coffee shop and not naming them just for the sake that I love the coffee shop, this is the first time that's happened, and I don't want to cause them any negative repercussion. But, yeah, he was like, hey, babe, what would you like for your coffee? And I was like, huh, that's, because I, for some reason, out of, if he would have been like, I don't know, like, hey, ma'am, I guess wouldn't be bad at all. But babe in particular feels, babe in particular feels a little bit, a little bit too forward, a little bit too close. Like, you don't know me at all, but alone, I don't have to call me babe, even though we are in person. Maybe especially because we're a person.

Yeah. I just had an experience like that just the other day, too. Hey, certain barbecue joints that shall remain nameless for the exact same reason. But I think regular listeners will know which one I'm talking about. Yeah. Just called you out your name with a little pet name while you're in there? Yeah, like, yeah. What can I get you for you, babe?

Yeah. And I, so is it different, that's, I'll be completely honest, you are among the first men, and not to say that men don't feel this way, but you are articulating it in having that. I mean, that could very well be one of those kind of unspoken double standards that men and women kind of bear. It's all double, it's all double stammer. Yeah. Like if it's, if it's towards the man, you just kind of assume that it's okay. whereas there's kind of a known condescending undertone, you know, whatever the pet names

with women. It's particularly, so scenarios, I think the scenario base is a really important part of that because context is always important, right? And so one of the more difficult environments for me is any kind of business environment, having a conversation engaging in business, business negotiations, or just any kind of parameters just kind of educational, we're having an open conversation. And it's like, okay, hon, or babe, or any kind of pet name at that time, because it always seems to carry this like, you know, just sit in your spot, you know,

kind of, it just has kind of has that condescending undertone as part of it. It's just part of that package. Do you think that as far as men go, that that's the intention behind it? definitely think there's some sexism in there yeah yeah what do you think is there do you think that it's ever not that do you think it's ever not great question uh well it's certainly not professional agreed agreed in any context it's not professional If there's an employment situation, it's sexual harassment. Yeah.

Period. It does end up in that way. Like it's hard to, because also as a woman, like the safe rejection. I watched a video the other day and, you know, us and social media and just everything is so different now. Like you're just exposure to things and perspectives is so different. And algorithms play such a big plane to it. But I saw a video the other day and it was, she was a married woman. And she was just really, she got on and she was sharing this awesome experience about a random man that hit on her publicly.

And she's like, you know, she's a beautiful woman. And she's walking down the street and this guy hollered out to her, letting her know that she was a beautiful woman, asked if he could talk to her. And he immediately followed up with, I am safe to say no to. and she was like, you know, I ended up telling him I was married, like it wasn't a big deal, and it's, you know, how do we talk to each other if we can't just talk to each other? Right. But we do live in a world where he was aware enough to say, by the way, I'm safe to say no to because there's an element of that, especially again, like in a workplace or in a business scenario,

where, you know, the proper way to counter that or to close that without, because a lot of times, friendliness I will speak again from my experience as a woman but this may be true for men too where just friendliness will be taken as a like an indication of being available or interested and it's it's you know how do we as women how do we you know learn or again it's probably men also but how do we as humans when interacting in that space know when and where is it safe to say, no, thank you, without having negative repercussion and negative kickback. Right. Have you ever experienced anything like that?

Well, it's one of those things being on the spectrum that I have difficulty with, you know? Yeah. So, so for me, words like that do have a higher meaning. Yeah. You know, I certainly wouldn't use those words, and otherwise I knew for sure. otherwise I would be taking out of context. Not a good thing. Yeah.

Well, and it's also, like, as in a man's position, we do live in a world that's very difficult for, there's just not a lot of spaces for men to mess up in that way. Mm-hmm. You know, like, it's, we kind of assume malicious intent with men, and we've gotten here for a good reason. And, you know, we needed to be able to reach a point where women could say no, safely, and that needs to be a real conversation.

But part of that conversation is, you know, there's also this villainization of men that should also be accounted for, I think, to a degree. So, you know, like how does a man safely, if there is interest or, you know, if they're wanting to approach that conversation, what does a safe approach look like now? You know what I mean? I don't think there's, well, just being around myself, I don't think there's ever been a safe approach. Really?

Really. Why? What do you... Well, certainly when I was younger, if I were to make that approach, I would come this close to being killed. Oh, no. Yeah. That's awful. Mm-hmm.

By the girl you were trying to talk to? By her significant other than I don't know anything about. Oh, that's brutal. Yeah. So engaging with a woman who is actually also... with somebody else that you don't know about. Right. And you try to,

you're engaging what you think is just the two of you and then had violent repercussions by a third party that you weren't aware of. Right. That's terrible. But that would be,

that's, that's kind of a bad human thing. Like, shame on her for that space. Shame on them. Did he knew? Oh, really? So he knew as well. I'm sorry.

Oh, yeah. I'm sorry to hear that. that. And that's the reason I remain single at age 45. I think there's a lot to be said. Now, Kansas City is not known for its dating climate anyways. Did you get around to listen to the rest of the podcast? I have listened to a number of them.

I don't want to say that I've listened to all of them yet. You probably heard the one where I had a dating expert on. He asked that exact question. Yes. and I think that is a combination of a couple of things like people coupling early that's a big one

and of course being so spread out plays another role in that so it's a complex it's a complex thing yeah here specifically here in Kansas City you think specific to Casey is yeah I could see that

I could see that I have never And because this is relevant specifically with like the pet names and stuff like that. Like I've never been on a dating app of any kind. And so I would struggle with that space, especially in a virtual context. Like if you, like you said, if we've never met and you're honey baby sugar pie and me, I would immediately be like, this is not real. And then that's an important component for me in any sense. in any situation is just to feel real and authentic in that space.

And I can also tell you from the experience in the apps and websites before apps were a thing. That's a good way for, that's the way scammers operate. So tell me about that. Okay, so the big one was 20 years ago. Uh-huh. I was working security at the time. So another context where it's hard to meet women. Yeah, yeah.

Although I did meet my first girlfriend in when I was working in security. Okay. Right? Like a day for a month. Yeah. But she was from Russia. This is the own Slopoldzkoid story because that's where she was supposed to be from in Russia. And I got to a point where I got condat as $2,000.

Like, because you were trying to, when she, like, she needed help, and you're trying to help her. I need the money so I can fly to you. That sort of thing. Yeah. So, fortunately, fortunately the guys that did it were caught. Yeah. And put it on trial in Russia. And I, for a couple of years, received regular updates from the Russian governments.

No way. I am serious. That is wild. involved a little bit as well uh but i didn't get trouble on anything that they were well no yeah you were facilitated everything yeah so so in that interaction did it start out i mean like like normal conversation and then grew to the kind of pet names um i in my gun dependent i think it was 20 years ago so i don't have a firm memory of that but i do remember she i do remember the profile said she was local.

So my hesitation with, and I, like, there's just, I don't know, I don't have time or patience for anything that feels, like, inauthentic. And so it's hard to imagine connecting with anybody like that in a virtual space. Not to say that doesn't happen, you know, like I know people that have had positive experiences, and are with really, really phenomenal partners that they've met in those spaces. But, like, I have social media platforms. I don't have Snapchat, but I do have, like, Instagram,

and I have Facebook and I have TikTok. And I will get occasional messages, I will get a decent number of messages that go, like, into my spam folder that are just, you know, high beautiful. And it's, like, beautiful is another one of those words. It's like, you know, I don't know, beauty. easy and that's just like an easy thing to say and right people like we are just so much more there's so

much more depth to human interaction and things like that and so it just feels this and i'm like i couldn't imagine responding to all of those or any of them actually but like what what does that even look like hey like thank you i don't know it just feels it feels it feels inauthentic and therefore i just don't even like you just i just don't even engage I'm not necessarily mad at them or think that anybody has done anything inherently wrong. But maybe within that are some scammers, just people trying to get me to engage to be like, you know, hey. And I've even, I've heard of, so on the other side of it, I might have done some kind of like deep dives into different scams and stuff like that because you hear about stuff going on. And you're like, how does that even happen?

You know, like, you send me 5,000 so I can send you 25,000. It doesn't, you know, but I know people that have done that. Like, it's, they came from, like, what they perceived to be a legitimate place. Right. And, you know, where they think they're helping somebody out or whatever it might be. And then it's just a total, a total, a total, that's a different, that's a different topic. Yeah. That might be another, that would be another good one, though.

That might be another good one, yeah, it would be. It's done that skin. so outside of like a business scenario like out in public i think it's mostly and granted you know people don't know your name until they know your name so just why sir is yeah yeah but as a is a woman i mean ma'am some women are real sensitive about ma'am i'm not i don't mind but like some women are real sensitive because it kind of implies like an older woman right you know and like yes ma'am It's like, I am not your mother. And it's, you know, so what do you think?

Or in the military context, don't call me, sir. I work for a living. Yeah. Do not say, sir, to anyone who's not a second lieutenant. Yeah. So what would be, in your thought, what would be an appropriate for, like, somebody who doesn't know a woman's name or a man's name? What is an appropriate way to approach them? Address them.

Ma'am, that's fine. Yeah. It's fine. Miss, if it's a younger woman. Oh, Miss is good. Okay. Hey, Miss. Excuse me, Miss.

I could see that. I like that. Okay. And then, let's say, if you can't use Sir, you know, and wanted to get a gentleman's attention, what would you, what's something other than Sir that would be an appropriate, like, hey, handsome,

that still feels a little too petty. Yeah, that's, that's. I feel, right. I feel the English language, that, that's just like, hey, beautiful, right? Like, that's just as much just like, okay, yeah. So, sir is about it. Sir is about it for men, yeah. That's another, I guess, kind of double standardy, right?

Right. Okay. So no pet names unless you're in a relationship, but then in a relationship, pet names. It would take time to develop pet names. Yeah, kind of develop and understand. Do you think when it comes to things like pet names, that they just kind of pick themselves?

Like there's like a natural evolution of something? I wouldn't know. Yeah? So in my long-term relationship with my girl's dad, our pet names for one another were just things that we just said. I'm trying to think of, like even for our daughters. even for like my daughter Sidney is squidney and squidness in my phone she's squidness the incredible it you know like that's that's very much a pet name but it's

it is entirely different than then you know like babe or honey right you know now granted you know being my daughter if I was to be like hey sweet girl hey sweetie hey love like it's totally appropriate because she's yeah but if I was to to like back to the school context, you know, if I was like, hey love, hey sweetie, you know. Yeah, there's lots of chicken. Yeah, well, and that's why, like, again, I've landed with sugar because it's this like,

totally like neutral, but not too personal, not too sweet one that I can. Because I also think that when it comes to human connection, part of the reason that nicknames exist, and pet names exist, is that they are terms of endearment, You know, it's an extension of the relationship, which is why you're like, it doesn't hold space here. Like, we don't have this extension of the relationship in this space.

Right. But. Totally professional here. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. So what's your least favorite of all the pet names?

What's your least favorite? The one that gets you other than, other than Mikey, because that's totally off the table. pretty much any of them you don't have one that like triggers you more than any of the rest not really not really yeah the ones that really trigger me are the insulting ones like and going back to high school i can't believe we have to bring this up but ski tired i'm sorry yeah that's offensive it is offensive absolutely you know sometimes um um There's room for everybody to grow.

Like if you are somebody that is using a word thinking that it is appropriate because of your context and you are just now learning that it is not, that's okay. You know, there was, I was actually, I was in a conversation. This is, it was one of those lessons. I was having a conversation and I, I've never been one to use that word in the context of reference of a person. at all. It would just be, I say just, but it would be in the context of like a scenario or a situation like, oh my gosh, that's skittarded. And it was it. And this is just culturally, you know, I grew up in the 80s and the 90s and that was one of the, you know, like whatever loser,

it was just kind of in this collaborative word bank. And I was sitting there having a conversation with a very good friend and her daughter who is special needs who is an exceptional young woman and we're just sitting there having a conversation again not anywhere in context about a human being at all we were talking about a scenario and the scenario was not okay and i said that's blank and you know when you when you can feel when you mess up and her just her she didn't say a thing she wasn't mad at me she wasn't disrespectful to me at all but her entire energy she shifted. And it took, for me, it was that scenario. Nobody had ever talked to me about it or anything like that. It was never, it just wasn't a thing until that very moment. And I learned

in that moment exactly how inappropriate and wrong the use of that word was at all. It just holds no place. And through that, and this was a number of years ago, but there's a, there are there are a number of words in that space that just hold no place. They just hold no place. And it's because they've been misused to such an intentional and hateful degree that they just hold no place. It doesn't, you know, you can feel how you want to feel about a lot of things. But there's just no place there.

Right. The N word is a good example of this. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And the reality of, of any word could be that. You know, if you, if you are using language to intentionally demean, diminish, hurt people, if you were intentionally using language to be hateful,

you could make any word a word that is no longer, it no longer holds a place. You know, and that's, honestly, that's the power of intention and human connection and human communication, you know, like you just do better kind of thing. well very cool so I hope so I hope today's so I hope today's

episode gives you pause and think before you speak think before you write anything who knows maybe you might mean one thing and it will come up as something incredibly offensive to whoever you're talking to.

So just think before you speak and think before you write. With all that out of the way, let's go ahead and wrap this up. So this podcast is Uncalled for, is host and Producing, edited by myself, Mike Chernivsky. We're our co-hosts today, Heather Marie. Our opening music is Iron Bacon by Kevin MacLeod at Incomptech.com. Licensed under Creative Commons by attribution 4.0 license. And our outro music for today will be HoneyPath by Camille. Licensed on a creative commons by attribution 3.0 United States license.

And you can find this at free music archive. org If you are in the United States or Canada, you can call us at 816, 832, 5160. Leave your message or question for us, and if we like it, we will play it on the podcast. Please support the podcast and purchase our exclusive uncalled for merchandise, t-shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, stickers, and so much more. Go to www.cathcass.com slash uncalled for pod. Thank you so much for listening. You will see you next time. Thank you.