This Podcast Is... Uncalled For - Thoughts on #ProRelForUSA Part 2 - US Open Cup Edition

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

In today's follow up on #ProRelForUSA in American soccer, Mike (rather angrily, actually) reads some articles and tweets on Major League Soccer giving the middle finger to the US equivalent of the FA Cup.

Hi, I'm Mike Chernivsky, and your listen to this podcast is Un Called For. All right, welcome back to the podcast, and it occurred to me we haven't done a thoughts episode in a while. Try to replace those with discussions, but it's good to have that tool in our arsenal. So today is part two of thoughts on hashtag pro rel for USA, promotion and relegation in US soccer. and how the powers that be in the U.S. continue to screw it up. And this is in particular a reaction to major league soccer pulling out of the U.S. Open Cup,

which is the American equivalent of the F.A. Cup, where every club, amateur, professional, the best of the primarily to the lowest of like the combined counties league all participates for this cup

it's kind of the same thing here in the U.S. I think Santa Fe may have participated in the U.S. Open Cup at one points as well. I am not 100% sure but read an article

and then read a couple tweets from soccer Twitter and yeah here we go and we'll see how I react that's all this so first the article from Yahoo Sports

M.I. Stitches U.S. Open Cup sparking outrage and questions throughout American soccer written by Henry Bushnell dated Friday, December 15, 2020 MLS effectively abandoned the 2024 U.S. Open Cup on Friday,

a decision that uprooted decades of history, provoked shock and backlash throughout American soccer, and unmasked the league's self-interest. And no fucking shit that they're self-interested. They've been the base antagonist towards promotion and relegation, which is the norm in the rest of the world okay

continuing it was a disgraceful decision awfully absolutely awful excuse me and fucking pathetic fans cried on social media it was shameful

and insulting dumb and gross embarrassing and disrespectful. It surprised the U.S. Soccer Federation and infuriated some non-amilized clubs the chief victims in a one-sided power struggle for control of the sports and its dollars in America. The U.S. Open Cup is the country's largest running, longest running, rather, soccer competition, a century-old knockout tournament that anyone can enter

like I said it's basically our FA Cup it offered amateur and semi-pro teams like Santa Fe Wanderers an opportunity to spar with top pros and to dream

until now MLS owners timeout a lot of them are also NFL owners not all but a lot voted this week to enter their reserve teams rather than their first teams

in the 2024 tournament they dumped the news on U.S. soccer, on the public and on the entire soccer ecosystem Friday evening just as USSF staffers were gathering for a holiday party

they said the league Quote, remains committed to working with the Federation to evolve and evaluate the Open Cup for everyone involved in the years to come, I'll quote. But their intent was clear because Don fucking Garber had already singled it. Garber, a longtime U.S. Soccer board member, I think we'll get to this in a little bit, but kick his ass off that board. Disgraceful

Said during the public session of a May board meeting that the Open Cup was A very poor reflection on what it is that we're trying to do with soccer at the highest level Translation, it was the least glamorous of the several competitions in which MLS teams competed and the hardest to monetize Here we go again, money being the principal driver of bad decisions like ripping a team out of St. Louis to a city abandoned in the first place

because it doesn't fucking care about football. All right. In ending, okay, let's use the FAA Cup as an example here for the 2023-2004

season I think they are getting ready to start the third round which is the round in which Premier League and Championship teams start so here we go

here's the schedule for the third round proper of the F.A. Cup in 2023, 2004 the weekend of January 4th Crystal Palace Everton

Okay two primary league sides Brentford, wolves two primary league sides Fulham, Rotherham United Tottenham, Burnley AFC Wimbledon In Switch Town See we're getting a variety

Not just the top boys But a variety Millwall, Leicester, Country City, Oxford United, Maidstone United, 6th Division, and therefore the lowest remaining team in this year's tournament, playing Stephen Hitch, Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke, Brighton. This would be the same Stoke City that was the last game I attended at Sporting Park was Siena Friendly between Stoke and Sporting.

Norwich, Bristol Rovers, Southampton, Millwall, Watford, Chesterfield, Blackburn, Cambridge, Millsborough, Villa, and Arsenal play Liverpool in that round. But you get the point. It's the big boys and the not-so-big boys and amateur teams, non-league sides, they're called in. England haven't had it and that's the way it should be and that's the way it has been the past few years

Mr. Garber it might not sound glamorous to potentially have say sporting playing Santa Fe but that's a master if I want to see all right you clearly have your head up your ass and don't know shit about association football.

Let's continue. It was also part of the problem whose temperature was rising. MLS counters were getting crowded. Each team played 34 regular season games, some played up to a dozen more in the playoffs than the Kunkakef Champions League. The Open Cup, too many. became a burden and at time

to rest starters and test reserves even before MLS mandated as much. Back to the primary league for a sec. Each primary league side plays 38 games. There are 20 teams.

They play each other once home, once away. And that makes up their Premier League season. plus the FAA Cup plus the league cup which I got some thoughts on that and how the

NBA tried to implement something similar but in my opinion do better what the NBA tried to do was to make accounts towards the regular league season as well and

no just no it needs to be its own separate thing like the League Cup so all that

plus Champions League for the select few or Europa League or even Europa Conference League all right so

so that is a minimum 40 games that these clubs have to play so don't get me this shit all right yeah it's an excuse just

just no just no moving on ditching the open cup therefore quote benefits the MLS regular season by reducing scheduled congestion fraying up to six midweek

match dates MLS said in its Friday's statement. Never mind that it seemingly hurts just about everybody else. It could harm the second tier United Soccer League, a league that I

have specifically said on this podcast needs to fucking die. They're basically MLS light. And I would argue far worse because they've been a bigger threats to independent soccer than MLS in my opinion.

All right. They are primarily responsible for the death of the North American Soccer League, and they want to do it all over again with the National Independent Soccer Association, NISA. So, fuck them too. Continuing, so USL, their commissioner said in a Friday statement that the news was a surprise to us. It would tangibly and intangibly impact soccer's ability to grow in all. all non-MLS, metropolitan areas.

Please stop using the word market. All right, that is, that's, again, part of the problem with American sports. You treat us like fucking customers when fandom is way more than that. All right. As a fan, you are emotionally invested in the success and failure of your team.

and the sooner recognize it the better so stop using that word because it would dampen interest in the open cup and give non-MLS teams non-NMLS clubs

visibility and platforms they often struggle to build for themselves I would again argue unless USL they are not clubs all right if a team joins either

those two leagues they cease to be a club and they're therefore a fucking franchise NSL NSA the

the UPSL the NBSL all the other leagues in the amateur divisions those are fucking clubs all right those are

those are Those are clubs. All right. And perhaps that's the point. By thumbing their nose at the rest of American soccer, MLS is separating from it, asserting dominance over it, and focusing on competition that MLS,

and only MLS can control and profit from. So another thing about America for our foreign any foreign listeners out there since Reagan so we're talking in the 80s there's been this bullshit about trickle down economics if you give

all the upbrakes that people at the top somehow that would trickle down to the bottom well here's an example of that's not working is a perfect example of that system not working. Moving on. MLS can control and profits from the League's Cup, the primary reason for scheduled

congestion, the month-long mid-season tournament, that MLS and Mexico's Liga MX, or probably it's a Liga M-X, inaugurated this past summer. It is 108 years younger than the Open Cup. But it's designed to capture new fans, namely

Mexican-Americans, and their wallets. So it aligns with MLS strategy. The owners for decades have artificially restricted competition and their own spending so they can

build sustainable businesses, which in turn, and in theory, allow them to spend more and elevate Americans men's soccer at large bullshit if anything you're stunting

Mexico at Mexico which voted a couple years to go to curtail pro rel or at least suspend it yeah how's that working out for them and may waste a half.

The league's growth on a whole has been good for the U.S. men's national team and for youth soccer and for a long-term trajectory and popularity of the sport in this country, but sometimes grows by shoving aside and suppressing others, namely independent soccer. NASL, NISA. Lamar Hunt should be very. rolling you in this grave. That's the

headline. That internet shows why Friday's announcements sparked such an outcry. Quote, trying to own all of soccer in U.S. by killing what they don't

own, lamented Christos FC, a Baltimore-based amateur club. I don't know if they're a club anymore because they're part of the because joins the USL Borg that went on a storybook

Open Cup run in 2017 Peter Welts is a name that's if you're in Soccer Troyer you are very familiar with he started a number of clubs I think most recently Chicago House AC which played a year

in Nisa found because of some controversy and played last year in the Midwest Prem So Peter Wiltz, the former Chicago Fire GM, who has dedicated his career to lower division soccer, called on fans to boycott MLS until they return to the best and oldest tournament in American soccer. No, Mr. Wilt, that's a great idea. That is a great idea.

So sporting fans, come support Santa Fe, come support Barrios, Sunflare State, FC, United, KC, any of these other KC-based Lord Division Clubs, Missouri Park. You know, it's just very support to one of them until sporting can get their act together. And I also recognize that they use sporting's facilities. Okay, so I'll give sporting kudos for providing the facilities and everything. But these clubs do deserve our support. And same goes for clubs at the local level anywhere in the U.S. Start supporting them.

Support the independent clubs. Not so much to franchises. Anyway, moving on. Lamar Hunt, an MLS founder and soccer pioneer, who was so influential that the Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup now bears his name should be rolling in his grave, Wilts wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter. If that name, by the way, Lamar Hunt sounds familiar to, he also owned the local NFL franchise and still in his family to this day, and you know my thoughts on that, so we move on.

Others were stunned or befuddled. Others asked pressing questions, among them. What about the U.S. soccer pro-league standards, which state that if a league wishes to be sanctioned as a first division, all U.S.-based teams must participate in all representative U.S. soccer and Kunkakaf competitions, for which they are eligible. By the way, my stance on the pro league standards, the PLS, they are a POS, they're a piece of shit and hamper any serious attempt at promotion and relegation. They got to go.

Gotts to go. Again, the protection of wealth above all else. U.S. Soccer said in a Friday statement that is currently reviewing the MLS decision. It was only notified Friday. It obviously wasn't happy. But it has little leverage. It wouldn't dare refuse to recognize MLS as its top men's league

and almost surely when levy a severe politically risky punishment which of course is why MLS forced a head shamelessly. It has been emboldened by its growth and by Liam Messe. It can't afford

to ruffle feathers because U.S. soccer now needs MLS more than MLS needs U.S. soccer. Yeah, about the about all those tournaments Lionel Messie played

at Barcelona. All right Last time I checked Spain La Liga Also a 38 game season

Also has promotion relegation Has the Copa del Rey Is their version of the FA Cup I think they have a league Cup I'm not one percent sure

But I can look this up when I'm talking but I know they do not have a league cup they do have the Copa del Rey like I said and and they are

actively participating in that I think even their reserve team participating in this I'm not 100% sure I'm not that familiar with Spanish soccer unfortunately so

but Yeah, they participate. So what the fuck? Moving on. The flurry of questions continued late into Friday night. They included one about continental qualifying. The 2023 U.S. Open Cup winner earned a birth in the 2024 Concaf Champions Cup, an expanded, rebranded North and Central American Champions League.

Will that hold true for 24-25, and if an MLS reserve team lifted the Open Cup, would it play against the best of Kunkie Kaff? Or could it simply transfer its Champions Cup plays to its affiliate MLS first team? Those answers are in the hands of Kunkie Kaff and remain to be determined. They leave room for silver linings and perhaps even positive spins. USL, again, should not exist. Teams could realistically qualify for the Champions Cup now. They might not get the publicity that Sacramento Republic got in 22 en route to the Open Cup final, which I asked a fucking Orlando City!

The poster child of everything that is wrong with you at soccer And if you don't like me saying that Well, fuck you Stop listening to this podcast You're part of the problem There are odds of lifting America's Soccer's oldest trophy just skyrocketed That in reality

Could breathe life into a tournament that has struggled for relevancy in the 21st century. The romance and mere concept of the Open Cup always outpaced the actual product. NLS teams who would enter in the third round well at fringe lightnings until the quarters get serious when

a trophy appeared on the horizon and invariably left it. They'd won every edition since 1999. What fun is that? And I'm also going to point out refuse to play the lower

division clubs at the lower division homes which is fucking bullshit. The MLS Players Association didn't like it. Relatively few fans watched it.

Garber said he actually didn't mind that because the quality of the games on, quote, subpar fields was low. So throughout the summer and fall, he and his league engaged with MSS, with US soccer rather, in discussions about the tournament's future, and then, at least in 2024, they ditched it. Yeah, yeah, I just said it, refusing. to play at the lower division fields are you fucking gamey that's part of the beauty of the open

the F.A. Cup and tournaments like that that dream is that shatters. They could have used their clout and marketing might to boost it. That's what literally every other major soccer

league in the world does. The English Premier League partakes in the FA Cup German Bundesliga clubs gone for the DFB Polkau and

Barcelona and Real Madrid go for the Copa del Rey MLS instead took an unprecedented leap away from tradition a light from the more humble

shoulders on which American sucker stands a leap so brazen that may peered through it and saw greed. Well, no shit. That's why I've been seeing since this whole pro-rail debate has been raging.

All right. MLS could still backtrack. It could return in 25. It could still work with U.S. soccer to promote the tournament and launch its potential, but for now.

This is incredibly disappointing news to say the least Ballard FC a fourth tier club based in Seattle wrote on Twitter clubs like ours dream of the opportunity to compete against the top

competition and have worked so hard to try and make that dream of reality that dream is now shattered and that is the end of the article now time for some sucker Twitter

soccer first. I'm going to start with Chris Kessel who is at the Chris Kessel out of West Virginia and Chris, if you are listening, I would love to have you on the podcast at some point. I might just tweet it if I

see you at some point, so I came out of for that. Heavily involved in soccer in West Virginia and actually knows a little thing you're too about the inner workings of the U.S. Soccer Federation. So, here are,

here's a, his platform. Options for U.S. soccer in response to MLS statement about the Open Cup if they want to fight. One, pull Division I sanctioning from MLS. Amen to that, they should have been pulling a long time ago. Two, make MLS register all MLS, two players with D1 team and Paul D3

sanctioning since D3 team won't be playing in U.S.OC U.S. Open Cup as required. Three, poll approval for Canadian teams to play in MLS.

Oh yeah, that's right. The Canadian Premier League is a thing now. So, yeah. Congratulations, Canadian Premier League. You just earned yourself three new teams under this scenario. Toronto FC, Vancouver Whitecaps, and where the fuck that Montreal team was called itself now?

And here we go. Number four, Pole MLS, League and Cup finish. Kunka-Calf Champions League slots. and give them based on U.S. Open Cup finish. Five, not approve MLS friendlies versus foreign opponents, so that sporting stoke game I talked about earlier could not happen. Six, sue MLS and force them to compete or don't approve short-term loans for their affiliates for cup games. 7. Use political pressure at Kunkakaff to pull approval for the League's Cup, which again is bullshit and shouldn't have happened.

Anyway, 8. I love this. I kind of love this one. Remove MLS from PLS Pro League and all other committees and task force. 9. Call for a vote to have Don Garber removed from the USS Board. applaud that 10 be very media friendly

about how this harms soccer in the U.S. and paint MLS as the antagonists here which they are attempts to win the media war and make MLS capitulate

negotiation based options for the USSF one I look These I love These are negotiation based options I love So number one from this

Change the PLS and negotiate with All parties Take inputs And allow USL D1 access Fuck to you Fuck USL They need to go away too

NASL What they want NASL should be the number one league and easier access for entry for NISA etc

and also any changes that current and potential future women's leagues wants two I love this one two just totally remove the PLS

just get rid of it and it should be gotten rid of three write a PLS that requires each league to formulate their own PLS that is submitted to U.S. Soccer, but not enforced or managed by USSF.

Lastly, not a real option the talent to do nothing. Can't be a top or chopper and use that talent to just do nothing. All right. If you do nothing, the sport continues to suffer at all levels.

So, yeah, Chris would love to have you on the podcast at some point. Another person I would love to have on the podcast, Karthik Krishnhar, on Twitter. He has an article on Substack. So Beyond the 90. His name is a sub-stack. Check that out. You wrote this on December 17.

Cardick, another guy would love to have on the podcast based on Miami. Worked with the North American Soccer League and for a lot of down strikers specifically. That's a horror story in and of itself. What happens with that club? that we continue so a Cardix article is called

MLS has starved the pyramid of resources could Friday prove a turning point let's hope the anger is fueled

towards understanding the problem and forcing change so here I be

again the irony of all the commentary about lower leagues lower divisions and stadiums

that MLS executives as well as many MLS fans spout is that anti-competitive practices have undermined any attempts to build a real soccer pyramid in this country.

These were practices that were long facilitated and even encouraged by U.S. soccer, who is now left holding the bag as MLS dismembers the Open Cup. Much

of the difficulty lower divisions have in maintaining professionalism is because not only does money not trickle down the faux pyramid but when

there's a successful lower division team from a business standpoint they get poached by MLS. Eight of the top 10 MLS teams in terms of a tendency

this year are in former USL metropolitan areas Cardick and four of the top aides are with MLS clubs that were once USL clubs like

the aforementioned D3 to D1 Orlando City who is the poster child of everything that is wrong with our soccer many Friday maybe Friday represents the turning points

when the Federation finally stands up for our national championship, its premier events. The reason everything unfolding is happening now and not two years ago or ten years ago because the USSF is no longer in a direct business relationship with MLS. When we discuss

MLS and the pyramid, I'm not not just talking about promotion and relegation, which everyone fixates on, though admittedly, in my opinion, open free market systems are always preferable to close socialist, crony capitalism

ones. Not to get political, but I am increasingly learning the economic preferences of the right and left are basically the same, but just dressed up differently. I know Cleveland fans are going,

hate me for invoking Art Modell but he basically said yeah the NFL are basically 28

of the time Republicans who vote socialists all right money doesn't flow down the pyramid

here the way it does in other countries there are designated manners in which money must flow to lower divisions in nations like Spain and Germany. Don't ask me about England. I'm annoyed by the situation there, which is becoming more like the U.S., which is scary shit.

Here in the U.S., we have a set of closed leagues which don't work with one another and don't financially have a proper revenue-sharing arrangement. And for years, MLS benefited directly from an arrangement via soccer United Marketing Slum, where U.S. soccer and MLS were business partners. Ultimately, for NASL, a league I, Cardic, worked for and within at two clubs in the MLS, S-U-M-USS-F relationship was the underpinning of our undoing. Some, which is owned by MLS, provided exclusive media sponsorship outside of the Nike deal and marketing agency services for the USSF from 2005 to...

22. Whereas U.S. Soccer has been a regulatory body for NASL, USL, and NISA, has actually been a partner in business with MLS. Let that sink in for a moment. How can U.S. soccer be a fair arbiter? And how is MLS not to blame for the Open Cup's state of play? If they were, in fact, a partnership business-wise, with the Federation. Now, MLS is trying to create its own ecosystem based around MLS Next Pro and the MLS Next Pro League is a much bigger threat to sustainability and survival of other league systems than many realize. In the coming months, it will become more apparent the sort of moves MLS is making in the lower division space further destabilizing

USL and MISA. My understanding is that unfortunately Chattanooga FC a leader in independent soccer have joined this. So I am very disappointed. As a league system, USL has its own internal issues that concern me and will be articulated in a future posting.

Thank you, Cardic. Thank you. But more importantly, today, I am concerned about their long-term ability to withstand the onslaught from MLS. And clearly, MLS withdrawal from the Open Cup is designed to hurt USL, among other considerations. Quickly, perceptions can change from the giant cup sets NASL and USL sides had to defeat MLS teams in the past to MLS reserve teams, potentially being USL sides. MLS has engaged in the above-noted predatory efforts to destabilize potential competition, so has USL. This isn't the fair free market Because in fact There's been a finger put on the scale by the Federation in the past

I'm all for the free market Unless unlike many of the elites in the game in this country Who prefer a closed socialist model But we've never Had an open market Or fair competition We've had protection at the top and chaos the rest of the way down the pyramid.

MLS mission was to grow soccer in this country, but they continue to demonstrate contempt for lower divisions, and they have not acted as a partner to try and facilitate the elevation of the professional game in this country unless they control it. They act as primarily predators in an independent business with major markets protections that isn't invested in growing the game outside its metropolitan areas or clubs. It is MLS responsibility as well as that of the United States Soccer Federation and other leagues to facilitate a healthy professional.

game in this country instead of being predatory and condescending towards the other leagues or divisions. MLS withdrawal from Open Cup would further starve USL and NISA

of resources and deny clubs in both league systems at potentially lucrative gate for facing an MLS club in the Open Cup. The importance of the Open Cup and a healthy ecosystem that incorporates independent clubs and grassroots soccer cannot be understated.

The situation created by MSS withdrawal from the Open Cup has to be used as an opportunity to educate fans and stakeholders as to what needs to be done in the future. well what needs to be done in the future I think Chris had a good blueprint as for what to do get red at the professional league standards

so just throw them out destroy the leagues as they exist if the clubs want to continue existing great let's set up a pyramid an actual pyramid one that might actually pass FIFA muster and start over of sporting or any other MLS size want to participate

then great just divorce yourself from the Borg that is MLS and start over you have the resources and it's time to start treating the world's game like it is the world's game with actual clubs freely competing against one another with promotion and relegation based on sporting merits so if you have a bad season like horrendously bad season you're not you no longer have the protection that a perpetual

losers are custom no you are fucking down you are fucking down to the next level and you guys start adapting to that

all right enough enough and don't get any ant you trust bullshit either that only those protect

sections only apply to baseball okay soccer you are not exempt from that all right I wish I knew how the NISL lawsuit was going

because last time I checked NASL was suing USSF over this exact bullshit so I hope it goes well for them I hope they return to some relevance and hope to see New York Cosmos take the field once again because they are now the standard bears of independent soccer.

Sorry, Chattanooga, sorry Detroit City, sorry Miami, FC, you all abdicated your foothold in independent soccer when you joined these predatory leagues. all right predatory leagues the MLS and USL who should not exist they do not deserve to exist in my honest opinion so let's do a better job let's have open leagues let's have pro rel let's have let's have the money actually work its way down to the lower divisions let's help clubs like Santa Fe rather than target them and have people not be

aware that they exist because you're missing some really good soccer in the lower divisions. I would dare say better than what MLS produces. With all that out of the way, this podcast is a called for

is hosted, produce, and it is, by myself, Mike Sierniewski. The opening music for this season is Iron Bacon by Kevin McLeod and atcompetect.com, license under Creative Commons by attribution 4.0 license and our outro episode, uh, excuse me,

outro music for this episode is WAPA, also by Kevin McLeod at Incompetec. licensed under Korea of Commons by attribution 4.0 license. And I hope to be calm next time. If you are in the United States or Canada, you can call us at 816-832-516-0. Leave your message or question for us. And if we like it, we will play it on the podcast.

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