This Week in Startups - Airbnb earnings breakdown + Gen Z becoming adults on the internet | E1604

Episode Date: November 4, 2022

First up J+M deep dive on Airbnb's Q3 earnings (1:27), before Producer Rachel joins for another edition of OK Boomer! (26:57) (0:00) J+M tee up today's segments! (1:27) Airbnb earnings: surviving the pandemic + most profitable quarter to date (6:49) Comparing Airbnb/Uber market caps and the narrative around profitable companies (12:36) Odoo - Get access to all of Odoo's apps, services, and maintenance for under $25 at https://odoo.com/twist (13:38) Airbnb’s value prop + hidden fees, service industry issues (25:42) Masterworks - Skip the waitlist to invest in fine art using at https://Masterworks.com/twist (26:57) Producer Rachel joins J+M to tee up this week's OK Boomer segment (30:34) Summer Rachel Wood joins Producer Rachel to discuss having a baby and raising a child as a Gen Z influencer (41:19) Summer talks about creating content as a new mom, how she approaches posting her child, and the lack of education around pregnancy FOLLOW Rachel: https://twitter.com/_rachelbraun FOLLOW Summer Rachel Warren: https://www.instagram.com/summerrachelwarren FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis FOLLOW Molly: https://twitter.com/mollywood Subscribe to our YouTube to watch all full episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkkhmBWfS7pILYIk0izkc3A?sub_confirmation=1

All right, everybody. It's time to break down Airbnb's earnings. Yeah, but that's right. We're going to get in deep. We got our Sankey chart. We're looking at the ribbon. We're breaking down the colors. We're talking, we're comparing Airbnb and Uber's market caps since COVID. The massive rebound for both of those. And of course, talk a little bit about Airbnb fees. Can't help. Yeah, that's in the news. Everybody's getting a little upset about those Airbnb fees. And of course, Rachel is back. Rachel's reporting producer Rachel with another awesome OK boomer segment about mom fluencers. apparently Gen Z

is getting preggers. And we're going to see how they share that wonderful, wonderful moment in life on TikTok. It's giving baby. That was Gen Z talk. It's going to be a great show. Going to be a great show.

Stick with us. This week in startups is brought to you by Odo is a fully customizable and fully integrated suite of business apps that lets you build and scale your stack as you build and scale your business. Odu is a fully customizable. is now offering all of their award-winning applications, services, and maintenance for under $25.

To learn more, go to odoo.com slash twist. That's ODO.O.O.com slash twist. And Masterworks is the first company allowing investors exposure into the blue chip artwork asset class. Twist listeners can skip the wait list by going to masterworks.com slash twist. All right, everybody, it's Friday. Welcome to Friday. We made it, Molly. We made it. What a week.

What a week. What a week. In case you're wondering at home, friends, we're just still sitting on this one. We're just still incubating a future show. No fly zone. No fly zone. We don't need any planes drop it from me. I don't need anybody reblogging things I'm saying and spinning it. If I've got a comment to make about a specific company that I shouldn't talk about here on the pod,

I'll just do it on Twitter. which is an excellent platform for sharing knowledge and having conversations. In real time. In real time. It's amazing. We didn't talk about Airbnb's results, and I love Airbnb, and I love Brian and this company.

I know. And Joe, the co-founder who just left. Great, great, great week. Oh, wait, the co-founders just left. Tell me more. Joe, yeah, he was probably about that. I think he's going on to. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, great guy. I've actually got to know him personally, and he's a really, really extraordinary founder. And Brian's run the company. And they're doing everything right after their near-death experience. People forget they had a near-death experience and they did the riff of all riffs during COVID because during lockdowns, revenue went to essentially zero. Pretty much zero. Pretty much zero.

I mean, talking about scary. There are going to be, there will be, future business case studies written on how Airbnb handled the pandemic. And they will say, I'm going to predict now, that it was effectively perfect. My ex-husband was working at Airbnb when the pandemic started, got laid off. So I had sort of a front row seat to how they handled the layoffs, how they helped place people in new jobs, how the brand equity of Airbnb helped all those people get new jobs. Like it was a really, it was so remarkably handled. They spun up new products almost overnight. The experience, you know, rolled out the experiences product super broadly.

Did host management. Like, it was just remarkable. And then now, uh, reported earnings this week. It was such a busy week and there were so many earnings and there was so much going on that we sort of missed this one. So we want to circle back because Airbnb reported it's most revenue and most profitable quarter ever. Fantastic. Yeah. It's a very good. It's a lot. It's a reopening story, as we say in the business. And revenue 2.9 billion, up 29% year over year. It's truly high growth rate. When we talk about growth stocks, you know, over 15, 20%, on a big number, is fantastic. And free cash flow. And this is what people are very interested in a down market. You're not going to run out of cash and you're showing me the money. 960 million, almost a billy in free cash flow. The increasing cash flow is driven by revenue growth. and margin expansion net income was up 46% year-over-year to $1.2 billion.

And Airbnb said the main reasons for profit growth, going back to our conversation yesterday, increased revenue and disciplined spending. Oh, here it is. The reoccurring theme. We talked about this just yesterday with Robin. Mature companies, as you put it. Mature. Mature.

Which is what they told me to be when I was a kid. They said, can you just act a little bit more mature? And I said, I don't even know how to spell that word. But here you go. quarterly revenue, Q3, that's brought this quick chart here, Q3 2020 to Q3, 2021. You know, really great to see everything going up and to the right. And then you got your quarterly net income. So this is the dream scenario for investors.

The revenue is going up and the income, you know, your bottom line. Everything's going up. Feels nice to be an investor and a shareholder, an employee or a partner or customer of this product because the product gets better. And this is what we call network effects, Molly. as you well know, when you have a marketplace and the network effects kick in,

you know, you get more users, you get more hosts, they tell their friends about it. You know, the way most people will find out that Airbnb exists as a company

is a friend will rent one and then invite people on a family trip or something. You've probably experienced this over the last couple of years. We experienced it years ago, but the public,

writ large, is experiencing this. You know, these days. You've never heard of Airbnb. You only stay in hotels. And one of your millennial Gen X, Gen Z family members rents some beautiful place on Lake Tahoe and invites everybody and they say, how did you get this place? Is you your friend's house? And they said, no, I got it on Airbnb. You say, what's that. And this is really what we called in the business over the shoulder virality. People would do DoorDash or Uber or Lyft or Airbnb. The other person with them

experiences it. They get in the Uber. They eat the food from DoorDash. or they stay in the Airbnb. And real world virality is... That is a new phrase for me. I love that. Yeah, it's a real thing. I think David Sachs came out with it. Over the shoulder virality?

Over the shoulder. Like you peek over someone's shoulder and you're like, what is that product, basically? What is that out? Yeah. What is Uber? Actually, over the shoulder came from Travis. And then real world network effects came from Sachs, I believe.

He wrote a blog post about it. Here's the market cap of Airbnb and Uber of the last three years. You look at that. dip. You see the dip there, Molly? Wow. That's like identical. That's bananas. The dip, by the way, that we're talking about if you are not watching us on YouTube.com slash this weekend or on Spotify's video beta video product. The dip we're looking at is the arrival of the pandemic. The almost identical drop at the exact same time in market cap. And then the recovery. And frankly, Airbnb recovered much more quickly.

Airbnb went public in early 2021. Wasn't even public when this happened. Yeah. And you do see actually interestingly, Airbnb recover a little more quickly. Yeah. Because they were a safer alternative to hotels. Like they were actually able to offer a reopening experience to people,

I think that, you know, like nobody was quite ready to get in an Uber. Yeah. They were still maybe ordering food. You know what I think this was? But they weren't taking rides. Yeah. You might be right.

in the theory. I think your theory is correct. It might be the second factor. The first factor might be, I believe, that Airbnb, because of their RIF, was closer to profitability. And I think what's happened here in terms of the story is Uber getting very disciplined about profitability. Yeah. I think that's why they lag. And I think that's why they're soaring now, right? You had that 15% day a couple days ago when the results came out. I think now people have to believe the story, right? You talk all the time with our founders. You do your storytelling to seed companies, right? What's the key component that you try to teach them about storytelling when we do that at Founder University or the launch accelerator? That it has to be as crisp and straightforward as possible. Simplicity.

Clear over clear. Yeah. Simplicity. It's better to be clear than clever every single time. I like it. So when a founder, is telling their story, you don't need to use buzzwords. You need to have clarity, be concise, and make it easy to understand and believe the story, just like a movie. And with Uber, I don't believe that Wall Street or many people believe the story we can be profitable on a union economic basis. Now, why didn't they believe that story?

Well, because they were losing money on a union economic basis for a decade. And to be like a lot. like a billion dollar a quarter. Yeah. I mean, it was literally, and Amazon had the same problem. This can never be a profitable business. Amazon,

you know, people like this, you know, delivering books can never work. Of course, they found AWS and they found Amazon Prime and those two things together changed the story.

Uber paying $36 an hour to drivers, growing in a recession-ish environment, throwing off free cash flow, Airbnb throwing our free cash flow, people embracing these products and making them part of their day-to-day lives, especially the younger generations who have embraced these products and services,

I think people believe the story. And the story is, people will pay more per ride, people will pay more per delivery of food, people will pay, and there'll be plenty of inventory for Airbnbs, and people will pay a pretty penny to stay in an Airbnb,

probably prices that are similar to hotels. It used to be the story which you're saved money on an Airbnb. Now the thing is it's more fun, to stay in an Airbnb. You get more for your dollar. Not that it's cheaper, but you get more for your dollar.

Is that the value proposition you think now for your baby? I think it, yeah, I think it was for a while. You know, we have, and we talked about this on the show

where I was saying, like, I think this, I think Airbnb, went through a little bit of a reputation dip recently. Like, you saw a lot of people complaining about the fees and the,

the kind of, that the fees were sort of hidden and cleaning fees were too high. And, it was a it was a kind of a golden opportunity i think for hotels to have capitalized on that weakness and for them to say we uh offer this really easy experience you don't have to cook for yourself like you don't have to pay a cleaning fee that's part of the thing and i you know you and i talked about it briefly and i was like honestly i'm starting to like staying in a hotel like i just

want to be taken care of and i don't want to cook and clean and whatever but hotels you know be through a combination of sort of like i think trying to save money and not being able to hire and keeping a lot of COVID restrictions in place because I suspect it saved them a lot of money, missed the boat. Like, I think hotels did not, hotels had an opportunity to level up and take a ton of market share from Airbnb and they didn't. However, you do see Airbnb, the only downside in this earnings report was that their guidance heading into Q4 was like not what the market wanted. You know, they projected between $1.8 billion and $1.8 billion in Q4, which it would have been,

17% and 23% year-over-year growth, which again, in just markets being ridiculous, is great. 23% year-over-year growth is great, but it's not what investors were hoping to see. So the stock was down 10%. I think any dip in Airbnb's growth at this point is because of that reputation hit around fees and the increasing availability of hotels. Like, there's still to me a question. And I mean that as a consumer, like, I'm finding it easier to stay in a hotel. My kid and I are talking about going to New York for like in between Christmas and New Year's.

And he's like, can we see an hotel? It's just so nice. And I was like, that's very telling from the consumer perspective. Yeah, he wants a room service. He just wants to pool. He does. Looking for a better way to manage your company without tons of expensive disconnected software, then you need Odu.

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needs change, O-Doo will be there every step of the way with dozens of user-friendly solutions to choose from, and you get it all for under $25. To learn more, go to O-D-O-O-O-O-D-com slash Twist. That's O-D-O-O-O-D-O-D-com slash twist. Get more done in less time time for a fraction of the price with O-Doo. We've become a fan of these ribbon charts by this company app economy, I guess. They're doing some sort of chart thing. The Airbnb one is great. I forgot the name of this. Every time we do this, I call it a ribbon chart. It's not a ribbon chart. There was some guy who made a chart based on a steam engine. And we then spent 10 minutes on Google trying to remember the name of this. A Sankey chart. Sanky. Here's the Sanky chart.

Revenue $2.9 billion. Cost of revenue. 0.48 gross profit 2.5. Operating profit goes cut in half to 1.2. Operating expenses 1.3. And your net profit 1.2 there. International 1.7. United States, $1.2 billion. Fascinating that international is 50% bigger. That sticks out at me. Anything else in this Sankey chart stick out to you? Well, this is kind of a dumb question. So is Airbnb not profitable?

Wait, gross. Yeah, so they have an operating profit of $1.2 billion, operating expenses of $1.3 billion. So the gross profit is $2.5 billion. Sometimes I look at this chart and I'm like, but the red extends past the green. No. Going to the right, you get that, right? And then on the left, it's a little confusing because they make it red as well.

But those aren't losses. It's just the breakdown of the revenue. It's a breakdown. So when you go left on this chart, it's, hey, how did that breakdown? And so if this was the Amazon chart, it would be, oh, you know what's interesting here? The Sankey chart, they're using the Airbnb color, which is like a reddish. And it's not Bergen. What is it?

kinkish red. Yeah, it's like a, yeah, it's kind of pegy coral. It's like coral. Oh, coral, you're right. That makes sense. So they're just using coral to go left. In Uber, they might use blue or something. But yeah.

So that's, when you go left on the revenue, it breaks it down by unit. The other thing I've noticed, though, is that those fees I mentioned are highly correlated to Airbnb's profitability. So for all the people who hate it, like, that's not going away. And if anything, there were some tweets, you know, when people were freaking out about it. I think Brian Chesky was tweeting about how they're trying to figure out how to present the fees, like redesign the fees so that they don't upset customers so much, but they're not going away. Another interesting thing. Yeah, listen, everybody's going to complain about fees. The rent's

too high. Why do we got to pay for water and bread at the restaurant? Everybody's got to complain. People hate it about prices. Roll it in. It is what it is. Everybody relax. Everybody's got to relax. everybody's got to relax this is my piece of advice everybody's getting a little too crazy about things exactly like you look at a price yeah let's make sure your price is like a per trillion dollars more because the fees don't show up until the end it's a it is a design and presentation problem that's a bait and switch that they've ignored for a long time it's a bait and switchy i think that's a good point producer nick we've that in i give you credit for that one of producer nick so it's a it's a design issue you get banged you go walloped at the end with a 25 or 20% gets added at the end so you're you're you're searching you see one $1.99, you pay and you see, what, plus 20, Molly? Yeah, it feels like Ticketmaster or more. I mean, it could even be more than that. It might be like a $75 a night cleaning bee, you know, I mean, it gets.

Oh, man. Try to buy a Warriors tickets and you get all of a sudden hit with like 30% tax or something. Yeah. What just happened? I get what they're doing. It's maybe they got to rethink it a bit. Yeah. I think they are.

I mean, literally, Brian Cheskey was like, we're working on that. And then someone was like, it's taking you three years to figure out. I have to present your fees in a way that doesn't piss off all your customers. I mean, I get it. They'll get there. I mean, this would be like taking an Uber if they told you the ride was $10. And then they're like, and Uber's fee is 25%. And so it's now at 13.

You'd be like, oh, wait a second. Just show me the real price. And you go and you stay at an Airbnb. And now I'm just getting on my high house about it. But all the rules are the same as a hotel. You have to like check in after four, which I'm sorry is BS. Like if I pay you for a day and I only get six hours of a wake time or whatever, that doesn't, that's not a day. So you have to check in after four.

And then you have to leave. Yeah. So it's four till 12, right? So 20 hours. 20 hours. I never like that. I think it should be different. So Airbnb has all the same rules as hotels.

You got to check in after four. You got to check out at 11. They're constantly telling you you have to clean up before you go. Like you got to strip your own beds and you got to do the dishes and you got to take the trash out. But there's also a cleaning fee on top of that that I didn't find out about. Yeah, that I never understood either. You know what I like hotels? I think that's a little weird.

That's a vestige of it being like a mom and pop, not even mom and pop. Like it's my extra bedroom. So just be cool and, you know, don't leave a mess. Right. But now if it's going to become on par with a hotel, you do have to like make the experience on par with hotel, which should be I don't have to take my stuff off the bed. I like to as a service to the person to let them know. Like if I rent a four bedroom, I use two or three,

I always take the sheets and put them on the floor or pull them off all the way so that they know that these are dirty sheets because I do think that's like courteous. And I like to put the towels on the floor as well to let people know. This is if they don't have a laundry basket. Of course, I use a laundry mask, but nobody has those in hotels or anything. Right.

Anyway, this is elite. This one that I just stayed at, I cannot believe the list of rules and things that you had to do and the reduction in kind of the hours that I was actually, actually paying for and then a clean, you know, you can see why people are, and it's, you know what it is? It's that familiarity breeds contempt. Like we're getting, we now know about Airbnb, lots of people use it and we're finding the things that we don't like about it. But we still love it as evidence by their booming. They should let hosts have alternative

hours. This would be a really big win. So the host should say, standard hours, checking at four like a hotel, leave at 12. However, if it's not booked up, make a request and pick your own 20 hours. Pick your own 20 hour window. So you want to do 12 to 8 a.m. That's fine too. You want to get in at 12, leave at 8, we'll make it work. That kind of flexibility would be a really cool thing.

Now, when you have, I'm on Bonvoy Gold, and they always give me late checkout, which I think my checkout is one, two, or three o'clock. And also, like, as a white guy traveling for business, whenever I ask for anything, they just give it to me. And then if my wife goes down, as a Korean woman, and she asked for it, they don't even talk to her, looker in the eyes. It's really infuriating for me. I have to tell you, I don't want to make this about, like, Asian hate or race or something like that. We literally, Molly. It should be infuriating, yeah. It's infuriating to me. Well, because I also have three daughters who look Korean more than they look Caucasian, and I know they're going to go through this BS. We have to, when we have a service

request, my wife and I strategize, you got to make the service request because they're just going to look at me as an Asian woman and they're just going to, they won't even look you in the eye, they're going to be perturbed that you're asking for anything. I don't know if it happens to white women as well. I don't want to make this like about race. It's kind of outside of the scope of this week and startups. Like it definitely probably not. There's probably like, there's a higher percentage of it happening to your wife than it is for me, but 100%. I mean, our producer Rachel's like, oh, no, you always ask. My boyfriend was wondering or my dad would like.

Oh, is that the hack? My dad invoke a dude to back you up. I mean, it's so lame. I can't tell you that, I mean, the number of times this has happened where I'm like, my wife asked for a late checkout and she's in an argument. And I'm like, just hang up the phone. I'm going to go to the front desk. I go to the front desk.

You know how I say it? Hi, what's your name? Oh, Molly. Molly, hi. I'm Jason Calacatis. I'm a goal member. I've stayed at this hotel. I've stayed at Marriott over a hundred times in the past three years. I'd like a late checkout. I know normally it's two. I'd like 4 p.m. Can you let me know if this is possible because it would be very important to me?

And they look at me, Mr. Calacanis, I'll get you an answer right away. One minute. I come up there like I own the place. Now, I don't say it in an obnoxious way, but I just put it straight out there of what my expectation is. I am one of your great customers. I have a million bonvoie points. I'm gold, whatever it is. This is what I'm asking. for and I'm very gracious about it. I said it a little bit more. I say it a lot nicer. Oh, you know, I was like, that's pretty aggressive. I hate to destroy. I'll leave it in. Oh, hate, hate to be a bother. I'm a goal member. I've stayed here a hundred times in the last three years because it shows you that in the bomboy. I've got over a million bonvoy points.

If it's not too much trouble, I got an important business call. Can I keep the room till four? And I'll be out four on the dot. I would really appreciate it if you can get back to me quick because I got to jump on that call. And so I'm just coming down there and I'm just setting the expectation that we're in this together. You know, like, I'm a great customer. You're a great hotel chain, Bonvoy. I'm loyal to Bonvoy. I don't want to get my free commercial here,

but I love that brand. I love that app. I always said SPG. I just signed up for the business credit card where now I get like 60,000 points. And I got, they, and just having the card now, they made me gold. It's so good.

I advise you. I don't usually do that, but when they get the right points offer, I'm in. I advise you. I don't go Ken on them. I'm not going Karen Ken. I'm walking in.

Well, it's funny because you're saying that it's, it, your assumption is in some ways it's related to your style and the way that you're requesting it. But that's only like, that's like 20% of it. 80% of it is that you walked up as the white guy. White business travel. And then 20% is how you protected it. I walk up like a CEO. Right.

Right. Like I own the joint. I walk up like I own the joint. I mean, I can walk up like I own the joint too. But it won't have to say. They'll be like, You don't know the joint lady. Literally, you walk up and they go like this.

Oh, Karen. Let me get some food. Are you going to freak out? I need to feed my TikTok. Because apparently I'm a super caring. Apparently I have a super Karen haircut. No. All right.

Let's do. Your haircuts. I, this is the best. I've known you for 20 years. Just the best haircut you ever had. Whatever they did with that razor, I know it's a great. It's great. My guy is freaking good.

I watched this thing on TikTok. Have you got the TikTok yet? I do have the TikTok. This is an incredible. a blab. This guy has a woman in her hair. I'm like, what is this video? A woman's laying and there's a butcher block and her hair, like when your hair was long, is on the butcher block. And all of a sudden he lifts like a, what's like a meat cleaver. And he starts whacking her hair. Bang, bang, bang. And he's like chopping it like, like he's Tyler Florence, you know, cutting like tomatoes or

something. It's just chopping this hair. And then all of a sudden, like, in within 60 seconds, she gets up and she does the little like hair toss. And boom, her hair looks unbelievable. I think that might have been edited slightly. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know, but they're really good at making stuff compelling like that on the TikTok turns out. It was like a chopping block haircut. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. Actually, I literally just typed in chopping block haircut. Pull this up, Nick or Rachel, it's a thing. It is. Oh my God.

And then I mean, Google it right now. All right. Chopping block haircut. So this is the kind of stuff that they're doing here. Everything is content. This is the, this is so hard to watch. Oh, I see.

Because it makes like almost like a little. Yeah. Razor layer. Oh, Jesus. Now he's doing the feathering or whatever that is. He's doing the feathering. I cannot even fathom how freaking sharp that like machete. I mean, this made me very nervous.

I'm so nervous. watching this and then boom. Amazing. I mean, I kind of, I mean, I may grow out my hair to get this. It'll take two years, but all right. Let's move on. Sorry, everybody. All right. Let's do it. Okay, boomer, coming up next Friday. It's a Friday show. Right. Okay, listen, we've all seen the IPO market slow to a crawl. And according to IPO research firm, Renaissance capital in 20-22 IPOs are on track to raise the least amount of money in 30 years, which makes sense. You get inflation, you got the geopolitical stuff. We got a volatile stock market. But financial institutions can't just roll over and take these losses.

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You know, it's Friday. Yeah. Friday after a long, somebody earned a weekend off. It's no weekend off. I still got to work. But good work. Learning a lot. Let's leave it at that.

But where's Rachel reporting? Where's Rachel? Yeah, we got Rachel reporting with OK, boomer. There she is. Yes. So this was a really special recording I had. I actually had one of my longest friends on. And the reason,

I had her on was she recently had a kid. And I was like, wow, that's so interesting. Not only because I don't feel old enough yet to have kids, but I was thinking about it. We actually have had another guest find out that she was pregnant since being on our show, Nicole Rurez, back on episode 1459. She's been tweeting about it really interesting. Summer has an entire career built on the internet. She is an influencer with more than half a million followers. And I wanted to ask her, how do you think our generation will be treating putting our children online and sharing their lives on the internet and how will that differ from the prior generation so freaking really cool talk fascinating after i pulled myself up off the floor upon realizing that gen z is now old enough to have children yeah um the fact that gen zy is also becoming like mom fluencer is fascinating the evolution of the parenting influencer what a great freaking topic rachel zombies zombies they're becoming zombies oh zomis That's interesting. Z.

Mommies. So Gen Z right now is like in their 20s, right? I guess is what we would say something. She's probably about 25 now. And I think my mom had me before then or right around when she was 25. I just don't feel old enough like I could have. I don't even think I could keep a goldfish around right now. But it's been really cool seeing her journey.

But I guess like the only thing I have to like compare it to would be like those mommy bloggers or mommy YouTubers. But I have never really seen somebody who's had like their entire life on the internet. Like Summer has who she has never had another job other than, you know, promoting clothing and doing influencing on the internet. I'm like, how does that like totally shift your thought about sharing your child's life? Like that must make some kind of impact. Wow. So Summer Rachel Warren coming up next with OK Boomer. I am fascinated by this. I cannot wait to listen. It's actually interesting, Molly, when you think about it, Gen X.

we had mommy bloggers then we had millennials and we had YouTube mommy vloggers and now we have Gen Z and they are TikTok moms commerce or Zomers

Tickomers I don't know it's but it's really interesting how the platforms correlate and the video the blogging video and short form video are now going to correlate with moms sharing their experience you know it's Molly you might have experienced

this making a baby and being a mom, there's a lot of things to discuss. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a very, like, the genre will never go away, right? Because there is, it's a singular experience, of course. There is a ton to talk about. There's a lot to buy, not to make it mercenary.

But I think this question of like the zero boundary now between your online life and your offline life when it involves your, there was controversy about mommy bloggers. Remember when that first started? It would be like, you're talking about your, Oversharing. Yeah. Oversharing. And now it's like there's no, I don't know.

There's no offline for these babies. It's really interesting. Can't wait to listen. All right. Let's listen. Thanks, Rachel. Okay, Boomer. I understood the assignment.

Thank you so much, Summer, for joining me on this segment of OK Boomer. This is a very special segment for me because Summer and I actually went to middle school together. I've known summer for a really long time. and I'm an army brat. So I don't have a lot of those friends. So this is really, really cool. Summer has half a million followers on TikTok. She is an influencer on TikTok and Instagram,

mostly covering the fashion space. And she's also a new mom. And I want to talk about both of those things today. So thank you, Summer. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad we're doing this. So half a million.

That is a ton. You also have like 130,000 followers, plus on Instagram. Instagram, so crazy. And the reason why I wanted to have you on today is I'm realizing that my friends are starting to have kids and a lot of them, which is really cool. But we are the first generation of people that really grew up online. And I think we're going to start treating how we put our own children online a little bit differently than our parents. And from the nature of your job, where you're constantly online and you're a new parent, I feel like you're going to be a subject matter

expert at this. And I think we should back up before we dive into what it's like being a mom and having a real life online to how has it been being a full-time influencer? Like, this is a fairly new career. How did you get into the space? How long has it been and give us the rundown? Yeah, no, it definitely is new. There's like really no guidelines or any public really like rules about our job at all. Like, we don't have HR if something's. going on. And we don't really have anyone to lean on when it comes to problems or just, you know, like asking for appropriate wages or being paid correctly. So it is a difficult industry to navigate being so new. But I basically got into it working at a, it's a social media,

PR. It was, it's called the Mayfair Group. It's this whole like crazy startup. They didn't really know what they were in the beginning, but they turned into a big merch company. And I was a part of their social sector. And I met other influencers there. And they were all just like, kind of just not gossiping, but I would just overhear them talking about, oh, Princess Polly just paid me like $7,000 to make a video. And I was like, $7,000. Like, yeah, I was like, I couldn't even fathom $700 when I was in college. This was 2019.

Like, this was before the pandemic. Like, I honestly, I really didn't understand money or numbers. And I still am figuring it out now as an adult. But, you know, in college, like, $100, like, seems like enough to get by when it comes to, like, food. And, you know, you spend most of your money on alcohol. Like, you don't really have priorities. Well, at least I didn't. Some people do in college.

But, like, I heard $7,000. And I was like, how, like, how did you even get? that brand to send you clothes in the first place. And like these girls would walk into the office wearing brand new clothes, the latest trends. And I loved it. I love fashion. I studied fashion. So to combine social media and fashion was really cool to me. I'm a huge creative. So I was making videos for the Mayfair group. And then they were contracting like other boutiques, other brands that needed help with their social media pages, like their Instagrams. TikTok wasn't around really just yet.

And they needed, like, girls to create, you know, user-generated content and make it seem like their brand was kind of the hype. And I realized, oh, well, why don't I just do this on my own Instagram and TikTok instead of doing it for, you know, a company who gets paid way more, like, cut out the middleman. Why don't I just do it directly to the brand? So that's what I did. I did the internship pro bono, didn't get paid at all, worked like a dog. Yeah, learned the ins and outs. And then, you know, just picked up like tips along the way, like how to charge, how much to charge. Who's paying?

What brands are actually paying? What brands don't. And I got emails from other girls. Like, I really did some digging. And it takes a lot of like socializing and network to really make your way through this very secretive industry. Yeah. It's super interesting hearing you talk about your path because obviously like this isn't something that you were necessarily applying to over on LinkedIn. Like you said, this is basically being a like a small business owner, freelancing. I see that, like, be even that those two sectors being even more similar to being an influencer than like a traditional job. And it's always interesting to me when people not influencing as a career because it says it kind of in the name. They're like, it's not a job. I'm like, okay, let's think about this, like, critically really quick.

So it's, you're influencing. You're literally influencing to sell something. We don't knock on people that do sales and being an influencer is literally influencing somebody to buy something. Like, this is just a new sector of sales that we're getting into. Obviously, it's working. There wouldn't be that many people making this much money if it wasn't working. So this is a new space that navigating, like you said, is really, really difficult. And I've heard about things going around.

We had Natalie Babaru on the podcast. who was a YouTuber turned founder, and she has explained to me before that there is like things like Google sheets that go around saying how much people get paid. It's just really interesting. Hearing about that side of things and navigating industry where like you said, it's pretty secretive. Yeah, it's very secretive. And I mean, yeah, I've heard some ideas, you know, finding out like trying to find middle ground when it comes to rates. And it gets very competitive, you know, like you'll hear another girl got the same deal as you. You know, she had a one post and three Instagram stories and so did you, but you have a more, you have a bigger following

than she does. And then you think like, oh, am I, you know, am I not good enough? Like, why did she get paid more? And it really goes down to like these PR or these like influencer relations girls only, it's usually girls. They only get a max budget from the brand that they work for. They get like, let's say, $24,000 to spend on a certain campaign. Like they have to spread that out amongst like their favorite influencers. And it's just kind of sometimes boils down to like getting like the scraps sometimes because they just, you know, reach out to you last or their biggest influencer that they really wanted for the campaign asked for like 80% of their budget and they really wanted them.

It really just depends sometimes. And it also really depends on like who's trending at the time because there's always an influencer who's got their moment. and they're going to be just like on every single campaign. Like people are just going to be asking for them. But it is tough just knowing that there really isn't any like middle ground. I think it's honestly because it's a female dominated industry. Like I hate to be like, oh, it's because, you know, men get paid more.

Men have more like saying things. But I have definitely felt in like rooms, even virtual rooms where I don't have much say solely because I'm a girl and I feel scared to even ask for what my worth is. And I think if this was a male dominated industry, it would be no question. It wouldn't be like, oh, influencing isn't a real job. It would just be like, yeah, that's a man doing his job. But when it comes to females, because we use our beauty, we use sometimes our bodies, sometimes, you know, our bodies and our brains, like our looks.

all come together in this. I think that really upsets a lot of people because that's almost a privilege to have. Not everyone can use their looks and make money with at the same time. So I definitely see where people come from when they get kind of bothered by influencers. But the way I look at it is we all, we're all gifted at something. We've all going to like make money off of some talent that we have. And if that's someone's talent, using their body modeling, like I see nothing wrong with it. Yeah. You see people that are influenced ranging a little bit more than you see like

the traditional fashion industry, I think, in what they look like in body types. And I think a person that highlighted the industry and people struggling in the industry and bringing light certain issues that happened that I, as somebody that doesn't work in that space, was the controversial TikToker, Victoria Paris, has spoken about time and time again about how she's like, I'm a skinny white woman on the internet.

This is why I get sent this stuff. And it's so interesting like hearing somebody who is at the top of a lot of influencing. Obviously, there's like Emma Chamberlain, another skinny white woman who is up there is probably like the person that I've seen the most. And she might be the most popular influencer. The one on the male side, I guess, would probably be like Mr. Beast. I mean, even seeing, you know, the two different spectrums of them.

I think is just really interesting. And I think being a woman in a room, especially a room of men, that get to dictate how much money is on the table, happens a lot with female founders as well. I've never been in the room. And I've never worked in an industry where my paycheck was determined about what I wore that day,

how much content I made out of it. I've always worked out of it kind of in this space. I can see how female founders also struggle being like, how do you even approach a conversation sometimes? And maybe not even just female founders. This could be a young founder, somebody that doesn't, an inexperienced person in the space. How do you even go about having those conversations? Like, there's no rulebook.

And there probably won't be somebody that makes a rulebook on that for a very long time. And I think that's an important conversation to have, especially when it's like your livelihood. And another huge aspect of your life that I want to touch on today is you are, like I said, you obviously make a living online. This is your full-time job. It has been out of college, which is awesome. Now you have a wonderful daughter that I had the pleasure of meeting a few weeks ago, which was crazy. It's so awesome. And the thing that really inspired me to have you on the podcast was a former guest that was on episode 1459. She's also around our age.

Her name is Nicole. She has since found out that she was pregnant, which is great. And she's been tweeting about her journey and some stuff that she says. I'm like, wait, what the heck? I didn't know any of this. Like one of the things that she tweeted was like, okay, where's like the Gen Z maternity clothes? Because me and my husband are expecting and I don't want to wear skinny jeans for the entire time of my pregnancy. Like this just isn't in like, I'm not going to wear light watch skinny jeans.

Like this just is not my style. And the only thing that's offered for me are these in oversized shirts. And I was like, okay, that's like an issue that like you're not being able to express yourself, I think would be frustrating. And I know she works from an office. So that must be hard. And then also just see. how she's approaching, like, she's tweeting about her pregnancy. That wasn't an option for a lot of people, you know, a few years ago.

So not only how you're presenting like your kids online, but how you're presenting like your pregnancy online, like she's a very, very open about being like a professional. And I don't think her tweeting about being pregnant is hurting her career in any way. Maybe that's different. I'm not sure because I'm her age as well. So I didn't have any other peers that were, you know, I guess posting about their pregnancy like her beforehand, except for you. Do you think how you are going to approach putting photos of your daughter online or anything like that is will be, will that be any different than how our parents maybe did it or even how people that are like millennials like one generation above us did it?

Yeah. I mean, I think pregnancy itself has like evolved very much thanks to Gen Z moms. I honestly debate this a lot. As I've told you before, like don't know what's too much because my. partner believes in like the evil eye and he's taught me a lot about it and I've just never really I mean I've heard of the evil eye but I was like I don't really know what exactly that is and it's just like there is like people out there there are people that are kind of wishing like poor outcomes on you or like poor just like things to happen to you if you're doing really well and like

showing that on social media and almost like bragging about it and I've actually gotten a lot of DMs too of people who believe in the evil eye asking me like, aren't you scared? Like, don't post your baby like of her eyes and her face because she's so young and babies are so pure, you know, they're like literally untouched. And it's very interesting. There's two, it's very a polarizing topic obviously. And I also, my partner brought my attention the other day. I don't know if you've heard of this digital kidnapping. Have you heard of that? Is that when they steal baby's identities? It's, I think so. It's where like catfish with baby photos.

Basically, but these people like pretend that your baby is their baby. Interesting. So they give them like a new name and then they use pictures of that the babies that you put, like the pictures that you posted like even Photoshop your baby's face into pictures with them. Like all this crazy stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh. And I literally deleted like all my pictures of my baby's face. on the off the internet because I was like if that's a real thing like that's so disturbing like and there's popular creators um you know I cannot remember her name for the life of me she has like

two identical twins yes um vodka and scotch violet and yeah but what's her mom's save oh um maca no vodka let me see oh my gosh it's like the babies aren't names aren't vodka and scotch they're called Violet and Scout, I believe. Maya Knight. Maya Knight. Okay, Morgan Knight's the name of the mom. But yeah, Scout and Violin. I get those all the time on my... They're the cutest little twin babies ever.

And they're so cute. Yeah. But it's like we look at it. We're like, oh my God, cute babies. Like it's so pure. And then we're like, oh, what else are they up to you? You know, scroll, scroll, scroll. And then I go on about my day.

But it's like, what else are other people doing with those videos of these babies? You know, and then I've, I don't know, I've, like, because my FYP kind of, you know, obviously tailors to some of the things I've seen or some of the things I kind of just, like, watch for a long time because they bring me in. I've seen, like, weird videos about, like, these Reddit, like, threads about kids. And it gets weird. Like, there's a dark side of the web. So it's really dangerous, you know, where you wouldn't bring your kids around people that would

make them uncomfortable, right? you would keep them away, especially from strangers that are doing strange things that are like, that have strange behavior. You would keep your kid away from that in real life. So why aren't we doing that online? Because we think like, oh, you know, like I share everything I love. I share my dog. I share my breakfast.

I share my outfits. I get that. But then it's like, well, these kids don't. They're not at the age of consent. You know, like you as an adult are able to be like, like, please don't post that online. You know, I'm sure you are like, hey, don't post that picture of me with a drink or something. You know, like, I can do that for my job versus me.

Like, I can do really anything. Like, my life is my job. So that's where the problem lies that I think with these parents that are also influencers, they don't really know where to draw the line. And I'm not saying that they're wrong. I'm not saying Maya Knight is wrong. Like, I think she takes great care of her kids. She's talked about those Reddit pages.

that kind of take her down. And I believe she, you know, protects her children, but who knows where it's going to go in like 10 years when they're 18? Yeah. And it's really scary to think about. We have no idea. Yeah. And your content obviously is like still,

it's not like all content about your kid. Like you're not out here in any way, like exploiting your daughter or anything. Like your content is still very much about fashion. And it's interesting hearing you say like that like photos with like her eyes in it or something that could, um, you know, maybe trace back like her identity. And it's like, where does the, the line, you know, start and to end here? Like, are we, is it okay for us to start posting photos of our kids as long as we don't put their face in it? Like how Dax Shepard

from armchair expert, like another really popular podcast does, like he posts photos of his kids, but he puts emojis over their faces. It's like, is that okay? Or should it be like some other, like, celebrities or influencers? Because I think celebrities probably had to deal with this first with people, you know, exploiting photos of their children. I'm sure we just like not into them in any photos, but then, you know, you're not really sharing like your whole life on the internet and with a lot of people that are our age, not only is that like their career, but they grew up sharing their whole life on the internet. It's, it's interesting seeing people starting to approach this.

And I think being pregnant was almost taboo. It must have been because I have barely any photos of my mom pregnant. Barely. And my mom was pregnant a million and ten times. I am one on a million siblings. I didn't see any photos in my mom pregnant either, which is so weird to think about. And now we have tweets of Nicole tweeting out her pregnancy, which is so cool. And I'm learning things that I never knew. I didn't know trimesters weren't equal lengths until she tweeted it. Like I'm learning stuff all the time from her content. You posted photos, obviously, you still model clothing when you were pregnant. And it's like, hmm, like how we're approaching pregnancy in our generation is also just extremely different. Do you think that is a trend? that was like brought on by Gen Z in our generation or do you think anybody at any generation is now more accepting of posting their pregnancies and things like that online because of how popular social media has gotten? Honestly, I think it's the latter. You know, with social media being so popular, like you take pictures of ourselves like every day. Like we have so many photos. Like it's just so normal to constantly share what we're up to.

And like the influencer industry obviously opened up that like box, like Pandora's box of just sharing everything. And I think I think it's really empowering. I think it's great of like evolution for women. We're kind of like taking power of our like over our pregnancies and sharing everything. Because honestly, everybody kind of makes. Before I got pregnant, like, I feel like people really painted out to be some like glamorous and like beautiful feminine like journey in it is. But it's also like one of the worst journeys ever.

Obviously there's balance in everything. There's pros and cons to everything. But I think like a lot of women like our moms just didn't take pictures because well, one, you gain like weight, you know, your skin changes. You break out sometimes. you're in pain a lot. Like your body is just transforming. And I think there's just a little bit of shame in that. And it's like usually you just took pictures at like your best moments. And now I think it's cool how we've kind of like evolved and shown like the good

and the bad. So everybody's aware of the experience and what it's like. So we don't just like keep dusting things under the rug and being like, oh yeah. By the way, like that's also going to happen to you. but you're already like two trimesters in, so deal with it, you know? So I think it's positive.

I like where it's going. But I think we should just focus on like the mother's journey more so than the kids. I think we should protect the kids. Like even I'm kind of realized coming into this realization as we're speaking. Like I think what was so cool about sharing my pregnancy is like I just felt really powerful. Like this is my experience. This is my choice. And I'm going to share.

and educate everyone and, um, like, we're taking this journey together. But like, it was about me. But then once you give birth, it's like no one really cares about the mom anymore. They're all like very hyper focused on the baby. And I get why because babies are amazing. I love them, you know? But once, but like I said, we kind of have to protect them because like they are so pure. We, we don't know what they're going to think in 18 years. Like they might be really upset that everything was out there and I would hate for my kid to like come to that realization and feel like I didn't protect them or even ask about their opinion. Yeah, you can't get it's like almost like when you see people, I always see like really horrible situations where it's like, oh, this person was like

recording me on the subway and I didn't want to be asked. And I am, since moving to New York, I have been really, really cautious. Like I won't and I try really hard to not take photos like of people, even if you see like a famous person, I'm always like, this isn't, um, not appropriate, but like I don't have their consent. If I'm not going up to this person, say, like, I saw Chloe Cherry from Euphoria, um, which was really cool. I know. And I was like, yo, this is so sick. But she was walking kind of ahead of me. And I couldn't catch up to be like, oh my gosh. Like, that's really cool. And say hi. Not, I don't even know if I would have, honestly, because I'm probably nervous. But, um, I was like, oh, this would be really cool to take a photo of,

but I don't have her consent to take a photo and it's something that, like, I have to think about. And I feel like I don't have a child, but it's interesting because, like, you can't get consent from a baby. Like, they can't talk yet. They don't know. Yeah.

So it really does. I don't know. When do you think of it, like, consent? I mean, I ask my, I ask my partner, like, can I post this? You know, but that's because, like, I have 130,000 people that could potentially see what I'm posting. and then send it to someone that he knows. Like, it's just, or like, find out where he's at.

You know, what if he, you know, told someone, like, he was too busy, you know, to hang out and then he's, like, out with me. Like, it's just an invasion of privacy almost. Like, I, like, my parents never went through my diary. They never, like, went into my room without, like, knocking and slowly coming in. Like, I feel like it's kind of the same thing, you know, but we think. think it's just like really sweet because it's like kind of sharing your dog like oh my god my dog like so cute today you know but it's it's so humans are so complex like and i think we just think babies are so freaking cute and i totally get it and no shame to any moms listening to this that want to continue

sharing their kid i just think we should keep in the back of our minds and just like really take it back a notch on what exactly what we're sharing and like break it down and kind of put yourself in those shoes at like 18 years old. If you figured out that was happening to you. Yeah, totally. And I remember like, you know, being in middle school, high school. We obviously, both of us grew up like really far away from extended family. So my mom was one of those Facebook moms loved posting on Facebook.

And I remember being like, I don't really want you posting that photo. Can you untag me? And my mom would get upset because she was like, I want to show like, I want to show your soccer photos off or something like that. And I was like, yeah, but it's like a bad photo of me. And in her brain, she was like, I want to share. Because I'm proud of you. And on Facebook, it was mostly like our family that lived really far away.

And that was important to her. And it was interesting because for her sharing was literally sharing to like that group of people. And for me, sharing almost felt like, I was like, that's embarrassing. If there was like a photo that I didn't think was very flattering or just a photo that I wasn't like feeling like if I wasn't confident that day. I even talked to my mom about this today because I'm like, this is so interesting. And now I could care absolutely less than my mom posts about me. or of me on social media. I'm like, mom, whatever. Like, I talk on this podcast once a week. And if somebody wanted to get a bad photo, me, easy screenshot. So I'm okay with it now. But as a kid,

I'm like, you know what? That's like, I don't know. It's just, it definitely does put something in your mind and how my mom sees social media, even to this day versus how I do. And not just my mom, but that generation is completely different than how we see social media. So it's going to be interesting seeing more and more of our peers have children and how they approach that. And I do think, I don't think, first off, I've necessarily had thoughts on posting about my own children or pregnancy for very long just because I haven't had that many friends yet that have had kids until literally this year. I'm almost 25, and I think this is like the age where I had a few partners that got married

right out of, excuse me, a few friends that got married, for example, right out of college. some people that have just been dating their partners for a really long time. I decided, like, this is like, we have stable jobs now. So it feels like a natural progression for some of my friends to start having kids, which is so crazy to even think about because I don't feel that old yet. And now it's just starting to sink in, like, oh, my gosh. Like, this isn't like, it's not, like, when your friend calls you and says that they're pregnant, my initial reaction is that, oh, my gosh, like, I'm so sorry.

It's, I have to be like, I'm so happy for you. Like, what are you going to do? Yeah, it's like, oh my gosh. Like, what was it planned? It's like, yeah. And that's funny because like when I told my friends, like, it was mixed. It was kind of like, is this a celebration or do we need to figure out a game plan? Yeah.

And honestly, like it is, it's hard. Like, you don't know really like what to say. But I think that's a good response to be like, okay, what's the plan, you know, to not really pressure them to like say yes to having it because they feel like they have to. or, you know, so I personally, I think it's a really thoughtful response to just say, like, what's the plan? Oh my gosh, you know? Like, don't sound negative nor like overtly positive because you really don't know what your friend's like thinking and they, they're obviously telling you partially to get some of like feedback. Yeah. Let's see what you're feeling. Yeah. It's definitely,

it's interesting. I think like part of me was like, oh, I don't know if I really want to share my kid on the internet because I see how much comments that like we'll get comments on the podcast and most almost all of them are sweet but like one every you know like blue moon I'll get like a really creepy one or one that like doesn't like sit well with me and I'm like oh like I don't like that and I don't want my kid to ever be exposed even if it's one comment out of you know a blue moon to be exposed to that but then now that I'm seeing um on the other hand of that with pregnancy I saw after hearing like the experience of Nicole just on Twitter and not even like talking her every day and just seeing what she's posting.

I'm like, this is so informative. And I think being pregnant and like that entire portion of life is severely undertaught now and really, really, really outdated because the fact I have three siblings younger than me. I am one of them is six years younger than me. So I was like very aware when my mom was pregnant when I had baby, you know, babies were all over my house growing up. I nannied forever. And still like that, that era of being pregnant.

like I just didn't know that much about. And I was like, you know what? Out of anybody, it feels like I should have like known some of the stuff that she was putting on the internet. And I think with like this generation of oversharing, that's one of the benefits. It's like I am getting educated on this giant topic that, like I said, I had no idea trimesters weren't equal like periods of time. I didn't know that either.

Like that's not. I was so confused. I was like, wait, why is not the same amount? Yeah. No. And I honestly would, I, most of the same. stuff like everything through my whole pregnancy was like brand new to me and then like I would meet other women who knew like certain things that I didn't and I'd be like how did you know that?

I'd be like where did you learn this? But most of them are foreign. So I wonder if it's like our education system really because honestly all I remember like in school was them forcing us to watch that video of a lady giving birth and like seeing her like huge like bush and that a baby pop out. that that was like it. They're like, oh my God. Yeah, it's like, what if they actually broke down like each trimester and talked about like, you know, things that could happen during pregnancy? Like, there's death that could happen.

You could have like, you may have to get a C-section. They don't teach you about the differences between like a natural birth and the effects of like using an epidural versus like natural. Like I got an epidural and I swear to God, it felt like someone like shot me on. not with like meth for like five days straight. Like I was literally a zombie. Like I didn't know who I was or where I was, but I had like a brand new baby in my arms.

And I was like, what's going on? Like I had no idea how to function, but it doesn't matter because I had a brand new human and I had to just figure it out and like go on autopilot and just make sure my human survives. So there's a lot that goes down in a pregnancy. and I just hope, I hope the education gets a lot better. And yeah, like you said, that's the one benefit that will come from it.

Yeah, I definitely am excited to continue to see more in my friends, like enter different stages of life. And I'm not married at having no plans on being a parent anytime soon. So those are two stages that I've kind of like sat by and watched from the sidelines. And it's been really cool. And I am excited to keep seeing you be a mom. I think it's really, really awesome. Thank you. Do you think you want to have a big family like you were from a big family or opposite? I don't know because I used to be like, I don't want kids because I was like, I had kids around me all the time and I was like, oh my gosh, like, no. And I'm like, oh my God, yes, I want. I'm pretty sure I want kids. I don't know if I want as big as a family because we were, you and I were both blessed with being able to travel a ton as kids because of the nature of our parents jobs. And I do understand that is extremely expensive if your parents are not, you know, in the military. Like ours,

I remember, like, we would go to Italy, first of all, and stay at the campgrounds, and literally drive from Germany to Italy in a church van. And those were, like, some of my happiest memories as a kid. But, like, if you're going to Italy from the United States with a family, you know, of, like, six, that's a little bit more of a hike. Yeah. So we'll see on the big family. It's like a nightmare, honestly. It's just not as easy. And that's just not a really normal thing I've realized, too, for us is, like, saying like, oh, yeah.

like I've been to like 30 plus countries before like the age of 21 like you guys haven't left the US like yeah it's just so like mind bottling to me but that's just how it was being like a military kid so I'm definitely blessed and definitely grateful for that experience well excited to see Suki traveled on travel the world oh yeah she'll be a world traveler right she kind of already is and if people wanted to find you um where can they find you on social media uh you can find me on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube at Summer Rachel Warren. Amazing. Well, looking forward to that.

And hopefully, I know you have a podcast. Are you thinking about bringing that back? Yeah. We're in the works. Okay. Say Some podcast. It's on Spotify and Apple. Feel free to check that out.

Awesome. Yeah. And hopefully I'll have you on the next episode. Yeah. Let's out. All right. Bye, Summer. Bye.

All right, everybody, thanks for watching. Thanks for watching. Stay tuned for Sunday. We've got more VC Sunday school so relevant to the markets. So interesting, this job just gets cooler and cooler. And a very interesting and all too relevant this week in climate startups interview. Yeah, we're going to talk about capital calls and how that impacts not only LPs and the GPs and the VCs, but also how it affects your startup. It's essential listening for any founder out there.

Yeah, it really is. All right. See you then. Bye-bye. Thank you.