This Week in Startups - Andy Jassy’s lobbying efforts, small US cities enticing remote workers, Phaidra Series A | E1511

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

Today, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy is celebrating his one-year anniversary, and the NYT published an interesting profile that has a lot to do with regulatory scrutiny (3:01). Then we cover the boom of remote work incentive programs all over the US to attract remote tech workers (27:00). And, we get into an awesome new company called Phaidra in our Series A segment… some former DeepMind engineers started an awesome machine learning company (40:16). And we wrap with a great story about retail investors who have the same thesis as Jason (47:51). (0:00) Jason and Molly tee up today’s show (3:01) NYT published a profile of Amazon CEO Andy Jassy on his one-year anniversary of becoming CEO, and it had some interesting tidbits (12:28) LinkedIn Jobs - Post your first job for free at https://linkedIn.com/twist 13:44 More on the legislation discussed in the NYT article (21:37) Microsoft for Startups Hub - Apply in 5 minutes, no funding required, sign up at http://aka.ms/thisweekinstartups (22:54) Bezos is running for president (prediction) (27:00) WSJ reported 71 cities and towns in the US are now offering remote work incentive programs (37:19) OpenPhone - Get an extra 20% off any plan for your first 6 months at https://openphone.com/twist (38:33) Producer Nick chimes in on remote workers in Manhattan (40:16) Series A: Phaidra s a startup selling machine learning software that regulates temperatures at power plants and industrial factories (47:51) WSJ reported some amateur investors see the declining state of the stock market as a chance to double down  (56:08) Over the weekend Jason tweeted, “Terrify your investors in 5 words.” These were the best replies

Hey, everybody, welcome back. It's going to be a big week. Happy Monday, big week coming on this weekend startups. Yes, Amazon CEO, Andy Jassy is celebrating his one-year anniversary in the New York Times published a very interestingly timed piece about his lobbying efforts. And we believe that this may have been placed as part of Amazon's campaign against some regulatory scrutiny. Good follow up from Friday where we talked about those reports of Amazon canceling its private

label businesses. We're breaking down some pending legislation. and what it might mean for all the tech giants. And then we cover the boom in remote workers getting incentives to move to Tulsa and other places around the country. Turns out there's over 70 cities right now throwing money at tech workers and it's working. They're moving. Really interesting to see that. Team Tulsa.

And we get into an awesome new company called Fedra in our series A segments and former deep mind engineers started an awesome machine learning company focused on energy efficiency. my heart. Yes, don't cry, Molly. I know you like to cry. Don't cry. Don't cry about that. Okay. It's joyful, but yeah. And we wrap on a great story about retail investors that are having the same observation I'm having, which could be correct or not, but they're j-trading and they're starting to put money into the stock market because they think it's a unique opportunity to buy. This is not financial advice, but I'll be j-trading the whole week here on this week in startups. In other words, doing live trades on the air. So fun. That you can follow along. on in your fake portfolio account. You do not need to follow my trades and make bets when I make them. And if you do, only bet money you can afford to lose

because I'm going to be making some really crazy bets. It's going to be a great show. It's going to be a great show. Stick with us. This week in startups is brought to you by LinkedIn Talent Solutions. A business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters.

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mentorship resources, productivity software, training, and so much more. The program is open to all and takes five minutes to apply, with no funding required. Learn more and sign up at a.k.m.s. slash this week in startups. And open phone. As a startup founder, a lot of mistakes are easy to roll back,

but using your personal cell phone number as your company number isn't one of them. Openphone makes it easy to get business phone numbers for you and your team right on top of your existing devices. Visit openphone.com slash twist to get 20% off your first six months. All right, this morning, this is very interesting because on Friday, we covered this Wall Street Journal reporting that Amazon was considering shutting down

its private label brand. So Jason was like, this is how you take the sales. Take the wind out of the sales of regulation. Thank you. So this morning, then, the New York Times published a profile of Amazon CEO Andy Jassy. Interesting timing. Interesting timing on his one-year anniversary of becoming CEO. and yes, the really interesting part is like Bravo Amazon PR team for shaping this story in the direction of talking a lot about how Jassy has handled his time very differently than previous CEO Jeff Bezos.

For example, Andy Jassy has been very focused on increasing Amazon's lobbying efforts. In D.C., visited Washington at least three times to traverse Capitol Hill and visit the White House. In September, he met with Ron Clayne, President Biden's chief of staff. He has chatted with Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic Majority Leader, to lobby against antitrust legislation, talked with Senator Tim Cain, a Democrat from Virginia about Amazon's new corporate campus in the state. Macon, friends on the Hill. And it seems to be working. Senator Tim Cain told the New York Times that Jassy was diplomatic rather than, quote, out to bowl you over by force of personality. That's a sub-tweet of Bezos.

That's a dumb tweet. Yeah, we get that big giant laugh. And, you know, Bezos, I've told people, is going to run for president. I made this proclamation on the All In podcast the other week. My other friends over there laughed at me and told me I'm an idiot. But I will be proven correct. Number one, he bought the Washington Post. Number two, he bought the biggest house there.

Number three, he's been retweeting Biden. And four, he's been giving all his money to climb it. and five his ex is giving a ton of money. And he did all that Hollywood stuff. All of that was to increase his profile. You'll know that Bezos is officially running when he drops his autobiography or he does something like that.

But the $10 billion to climate donation, buying the Washington Post, all of this is just a stepping stone to running for president. I think there's a good chance he would run with Michelle Obama or somebody like that in 20, 24.

Time stamp it, people. Also, if he wants to be serious about climate, he needs to dump that mega yacht immediately. That is literally his anti-offsetting everything he does. I read this whole thing about yachts and what giant emitters they are. Like, I had no idea how bad they are. It's bonkers. They- I mean, it's literally like whatever he is spending on climate, he is undoing or will undo with that yacht.

No, I mean, not that much because he gave $10 billion. It's terrible. Somebody showed a picture of, it went viral over the weekend. you saw it, but like my friend just, you know, fueled up his yacht in the Mediterranean. Yeah. And he put like 7,000 gallons in it. It's a $7 piece. It was like a half million dollars to fill up the tank.

It's actually true. Some of these things are so giant. They burn a colossal amount of fuel and sometimes people reposition them. So to reposition them, this is what rich people do. You know, like, okay, it's going to be in the Mediterranean in the summer, but then I'm going to move it down to the Caribbean for the winter. Just doing that could cost a half million dollars in fuel or something. So, but anyway, let's continue.

And you railed us. Yes. Let's keep talking about Andy. But so clearly trying to make friends ahead of regulation. And the Times also noted that the big, the most immediate regulatory threat is this American Innovation and Choice Online Act, which has been proposed, but so far has not come to a vote in either the House or the Senate. But it would stop large digital platforms from giving their own products.

Yeah. Preferential treatment. See, also, all the way back. to Friday. The Amazon basics thing. It's all coming together, people. It all is coming together. And what I found particularly interesting about this is there is an innovation and online choice

act that gets mentioned in the story, I believe. And this is something that I wasn't super familiar with, but I think it's worth us diving into. Most of us have not heard of the Innovation Online Choice Act, but it's a bill. and it would basically, I started reading up on it, it basically is for companies, so they have over 50 million monthly active users and a market cap or net sales of over 550 billion.

So they're saying like, this isn't for small companies that are scrappy. This is for the big, big companies. This would mean Apple, Facebook meta, Amazon, Microsoft. I don't think Twitter wouldn't be in here. Google, of course would be in there. So this wouldn't include Twitter

and snap as just an example, right? Because their market caps and their sales are under $550 billion by significant amount. So this is targeting like five or six companies. And it basically says that, you know, you can't unfairly preference your own products or services. So maybe you can walk us through this in relation to Amazon. Right. Or lines of business. So the hypothetical. Okay, correct. Yeah. So the hypothetical example here, of course, is Amazon putting its base products at the top of every search by default.

It doesn't necessarily forbid Amazon from creating the basics line. But it would say if you create this, you cannot unfairly preference it by putting it at the top. So I search for a lightning cable. They can't put themselves up top. But if they could explain, hey, the algorithm is showing our cable, number one, because it has the most five-star reviews and the largest amount of sales.

And that's how we optimize the algorithm. They could do that. Or they could buy ads in their own network to make it the number one by giving the number one to an ad slot, which is what they do on Amazon already. Yep, exactly. So there's there are back doors to get around this, obviously, but this is a starting point. Right. It would have to, the unfairly is what's doing all the work here, right?

They would have to be able to prove that it was unfair. Another example is that they cannot unfairly limit another company's products to compete against the platform's own products and discrimination in the enforcement of these regulations. So an example here would be the Amazon marketplace taking search traffic away from another inexpensive t-shirt brand that competes with basics. So again, the unfairly is the key here. It would be like, okay, we make these t-shirts under the Amazon basics brand. This other brand came along third-party seller that makes the same team. shirt and we're just going to hide those search results every time. Yeah.

So this isn't a great example on Amazon. The better example might be looking at an app store where we remember in the early days of Apple's app store, they wouldn't allow third-party browsers. They wouldn't allow other map companies. And they were like, well, we have those. But then they realized, oh, my God, we're getting ourselves in the antitrust cross-hear hairs. And they also wouldn't allow audible. So if you wanted to buy, which is an Amazon company, if you wanted to buy an audio book,

you couldn't do it in the audible app because that was considered a marketplace and you weren't allowed to run a marketplace, i.e. an app store, a store for buying movies or music on Apple. Right. And so this is the dance that I guess is going on. But I like where this regulation is going

because this is putting, this is targeting a very specific group of companies and they're just saying, make it more fair. And so there's a lot of, I have a lot of feelings on this, but I kind of like the direction they're going. Yeah, what I thought, what I think is really interesting about Amy Klobuchar, Senator Amy Klobuchar took the lead on this.

She's like, it turns out a really big antitrust nerd. And she seems very smart to me. She's very smart. Very smart. Can we get her on the show? I'd love to hear you interview her. Yeah, I interviewed her for Marketplace Tech when this legislation came out because she also wrote a book on antitrust.

And tech monopolies specifically, we should. Absolutely. Amy, if you're listening, I mean, Senator Klobuchar, please, come on the show. Extremely smart. And what's so interesting about this approach is that it's really trying to reinvent the way that antitrust is enforced. And I think that's very clever. It's saying like, okay, look, there should be new standards that are relevant to these mega businesses. Yes. Specifically, right? And I could imagine right now we're talking about their marketplaces, but there's going to be a time when we're talking about this with respect to cloud services. Sure. Without a doubt, right?

Like the data privacy or even just the ability to like shut down a business that might compete with yours. Here's an example. Like Netflix is on the Amazon cloud and Amazon runs a prime streaming service. Why can't I swap out on my iPhone and my Mac? Why can't in the settings I say I want to use Dropbox. I want to use my Microsoft drive. I want to use my Google drive to back up all my stuff.

Why do I have to, because I pay right now for 4 terabytes for Apple some really large amount of money, but I already have that on Google. Right. So why can't I just use one account, right? Why can't I swap that out? Okay, listen, take it from me. The summer is a great time to grow your small business. Why? Lots of people are taking vacations, summer Fridays, things like that.

And you can out hustle them with your team. And LinkedIn jobs is going to help you find the right candidates faster. Your first job post is always free. nothing to lose. Now, you know LinkedIn Jobs. It's the best hiring platform out there, and we use it all the time. What makes LinkedIn jobs so good? What makes it so special? What's the secret sauce? Well, it's obvious. It's the world's largest professional network with over 810 million people. I think when I started reading these ads a couple of years ago, it was like three or 400 million. They're going to go right past a billion. You can be sure of

that. And you can create a free job posting in minutes. That's the best part. You can add that little purple hiring frame to your LinkedIn profile so all of the people following you know you're hiring. That is the magic. And screening questions, they help. So it's very simple. LinkedIn jobs is going to help you find candidates you want to talk to and it's going to help you find them faster. Every week, nearly 40 million job seekers visit LinkedIn. Go to LinkedIn.com slash twist. LinkedIn.com slash TWIST and you're going to get your first job post for free. Terms and conditions apply because they're giving you something for free. And so I think, I think, you know, I have a couple of hot takes on this, but anything else we need, the audience needs to know about this specific legislation or the Jassy story.

Well, the other thing, and this would potentially affect Amazon specifically. So one thing we should note before, well, let me continue on the legislation and then know one more thing. It would also include this bill should it advance. It would prohibit the use of non-public data obtained from or generated on the platform by. the activities of a third-party business used to support the offering of the platform's own price. So this is specifically, Amazon, you can create a basics line, but you cannot use data from third-party retailers

to decide which products to launch. And again, this gets back to... Yeah, it says non-public, specifically. Non-public. Okay. So if Anchor makes a really cool... Or let's do even a better one, somebody makes a really cool phone case

and it's super innovative Amazon can look at the public data it sales and what the review saying but they can't look at the return percentage or the profit margin or stuff like that like the returns would be

the great one so if they were to look at the 6% of people who return that case and then it said you know they ask you why and they had a thousand reasons why and it said oh, I don't like it because it doesn't come in pink or it didn't come in the color I like, I want blue. They could take that non-public data and then go make a pink and a blue one

and basically just by giving your sales data to Amazon, you're giving them a roadmap to make better product. So this says you can't do that. But what this is really about is Facebook. This specific thing has more to do with Facebook in my mind. You know why? They were looking at all of the data of what apps people were installing

and talking about and what features, yada, yada, and then they were copying them. So they knew that Facebook was doing this for a long time. So I think this is as much about Facebook as it is Amazon. Yeah. And I also maintain that I think cloud neutrality in the future, which is a phrase I think I coined in a wired

article. To find what that means. Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to start to have right now you have basically only three companies, really two with Google as a third that's trying to spend of a lot of money to catch up, who offer cloud services at scale and host tons and tons of businesses on their own infrastructure, right?

Right. AWS, Azure, and then Google Cloud is sort of the third player. So you find yourself in a situation as a business, a startup, even a pretty big business. I mean, I think for a long time, Netflix is the perfect example. Netflix was like primarily hosted on AWS. years. Now I think they do do much more of their own hosting, but Amazon provides a competing service, right? And Microsoft has a million different businesses that can be like if Slack were hosted on Azure, which in the early days it probably was and could still be, then you put yourself

in a position where you're just relying on hope and prayers that nobody at these big companies is looking at your data and figuring out who, you know, what your feature set is or who your customers are or we are uptime. Again, these companies will tell you to the end of time that they're not doing this, but there isn't any specific regulation currently preventing them from doing this. Potentially this Klobuchar sponsored bill would do it. And we should note that the cleverness of, I think, this framing in this particular bill is really working and is really freaking out tech companies.

They have all increased their lobbying dramatically. I have three hot takes here. Yeah. Number one, killer for startups. If this passes, it's killer for startups. Because this would make Google have to rethink Google shopping, Google Local, Google flights, and then, you know, some other shopping search engines or search providers would then rank higher in Google, Yelp and TripAdvisor, Expedia, all those places that are all startups.

Now, they're big companies now. But you would, it would be very hard for, you know, the Googles of the world to shut down those startups. And those startups could say, hey, listen, they're using our data from the app store. They saw our downloads, whatever. They saw our search results. And they made competing products. And just the threat of that is going to make these big companies behave better because

the penalty was ginormous in here. This legislation started at 15 to 30 percent. And now they're saying 10 percent of last year's revenue. And obviously this would be in the United States. It's a big penalty. That's not a speeding ticket. And all of the stuff that's happened previously were speeding tickets. Somebody has to pay $100 million fine, a billion dollar fine.

Who cares? 10%, you know, that could be billions and billions of dollars. That's going to sting. That's top line. That's not profits. It's top line. Okay, so that's number one. Let's kill it for starters.

Number two, CEOs are scared. CEOs are scared right now. They are. Sundar was talking about the Google ad business getting spun out. Amazon, putting basics. The cage has been rattled and folks are scared. Cheryl Sandberg left Facebook. I think maybe that's part of it.

Don't want to deal with this regulation coming. Yeah, the cage has been shut. They're shaking the cage here. And CEOs are clearly scared. And then number three, is that going to get a pass on all this? Because they're a walled garden, right? They don't have 30-party sellers. They don't have apps, as it were, or an app store.

so if they're a wall garden by design, how could they favor their own? There is nobody else on their service. So it's not like Shopify or Airbnb or Spotify or Target or any of these people are integrated into Facebook or Instagram and then there's a competing product that's going above it. Craigslist is not allowed on Facebook as like an app. They got rid of the apps.

And so the Facebook, what do they call their marketplace? Facebook marketplace? Facebook Marketplace. It's not like Facebook Marketplace is stealing information from their Craigslist version on there. So what do they do? They're going to force them? I was just thinking, like, what if they forced Facebook to make the stickers and the widgets open? Or they forced them to say, if I have an Instagram account, this would be killer,

instead of using the shopping built into, because now they have their own shopping tools built in, I could swap it out for Spotify. So I can just put Spotify. And I think they actually did a deal with Spotify. But whatever the other five, you know, Squarespace or. any e-commerce can be plugged into your Instagram natively. So the big thing I wonder here is

what happens to people who already have closed gardens like Zuckerberg built. This is probably, this would likely be covered under the unfairly preferencing a platform operator's own product services or lines of business. But they don't. Maybe.

They never allow anybody else. So it's not like they're giving preference. There is no preference. There is no choice. I mean, eventually there will be like the Oculus app store, I guess. there will be. Yeah.

But yeah, no, it's a little bit trickier. I would love to, we should get Senator Klobuchar on to explain to us how this would impact Facebook in particular. But I think this has been a huge part of the conversation about what's so hard about crafting antitrust for, quote unquote, big tech is that they're all in many ways very different businesses. And so trying to craft specific legislation as opposed to just use existing antitrust framework has been really hard. Yeah. Yeah. By some estimates, over 90% of startups will go out of business in year one. That's why Microsoft created the Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub.

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There are no fundraising requirements. And unlike others in the industry, I'm not going to mention any names here. The Microsoft for startups founders hub does it require startups to be investor-backed or third-party validated to sign up and access benefits? Nope, they're not playing favorites. They want to help everybody. It's truly open to any founder. And it's not about who you know.

It's about what you build. Any founder at any stage can take advantage of this. You can get up to six figures of value by signing up right now at AKA. Dot MS slash This Week in Startups. So sign up and start building today at AKA.m.S. slash this week in startups. And I just want to say, Bezos is running for president. Number one, he bought the Washington Post. Number two, climate donations.

Number three, the Giant House in D.C. Number four, he left the CEO slot. Number five, he's now retweeting, Biden and criticizing. and being vocal. And number six, he spent all that money and time in Hollywood. That's like a big media play

to raise your profile doing Amazon movies and the Lord of the Ring stuff and James Mon. So I think he's teed up. Those are my six reasons. If you disagree, please tell me why,

but I think he's going to run with somebody very high profile and he's going to win. And I'm going to vote for him. It's a no-brander vote. Oh, haven't helped us. Okay. What do you mean having help us?

You're telling me, would you rather have Biden Bezos or Bloomberg. There's three B's, Biden, Bezos, Bloomberg. Rank them who you would like to see in office right now. Jesus Christ. Right now? So easy.

Or in 2020. No, I'm still going. Look, I'm just saying being an oligarch, being an oligarch does not prepare you to run a country. Like, we should disabuse ourselves of that notion right now. And when I say, when I say, haven't helped us, what I mean is, our options are literally only going to come down to oligarchs because that is just America. Who understands the economy business better? Biden or Bezos?

No, no, no. There's understanding how to make a crap ton of money. Yes. By paying as little as possible for good services and humans. And then there's understanding the economy. You just added a seventh reason he's running. He raised the minimum wage, gave benefits, gave benefits and paid for college inside of Amazon for workers. What does that sound like? That sounds like Bernie's agenda. That's why he did it. He's going to be able to go up there.

He's going to be able to go up there and say, you know what? At Amazon. And America's going to fall for it. Listen, like, America's going to go for this. Hookline and sinker because we love oligarchs and celebs. That is our jam. He's an entrepreneur. He has a small percentage of overall commerce.

He was an oligarch and now an entrepreneur. And now he's an oligarch. He's just a killer entrepreneur. Two words from. You're telling me you would want Biden over Bezos and Blue You would you, you would? I'm not saying I'm happy about it. I'm just saying, yes.

You would vote for Biden at 78 over Bezos and over Bezos at whatever he is 60? Right this second. Yes. Oh my. I'm not saying I like it. You have given me like a Sophie's choice situation. Or Trump. Make it easier.

Come on. Bezos Trump or Teal. This napkin box. Like, you're crazy. I'm going to have to spend another In another six months I'm going to green pill you I'm green pilling everybody

Forget about red pills And blue pills I'm green pilling people If you can make money and create jobs That's not an oligarch That's an entrepreneur I'm green pilling you

You're going to be in love with this concept I get six more months with you on air I'm going to turn your own Green Pilling is amazing And I want it on a T-shirt I'm going to green pill everybody Here's my hashtag green pilled If you can create jobs

The day I come around And this is the day I'll wear that shirt. America is about capitalism and democracy. That's what America is about. And democracy. Jeff Bezos is not about democracy. He, of course he is. Of course.

Listen, capitalism and democracy. This is the peanut butter and chocolate. Okay? And I put capitalism and then democracy in that sentence, it was an accident. I meant democracy, then capitalism. It was an accident. Green pill. Hashtang green pill.

It's the economy. It's the economy. Economy. UV. That's a pretty funny. Hulk smash. You want to see the economy at work? Who wants this mug with the This Week and Startup's logo? We got 93 thumbs up, seven more, six more, and somebody's going to get one of these.

Okay. That's a freaking pro. That's the economy at work, okay? Let's go. All right. Speaking of the economy at work. Okay. Sorry.

That's okay. It's okay. I'm just trying to get you to our team meeting. We can do this. Speaking of Amazon, actually. Okay. Speaking of every company, right? Yes.

Which is having this conversation about where to work. and fully remote and whether not to fully remote and how to how it could actually kind of spread the benefits of the economy around more equally across the country. Okay. Interesting report in the Wall Street Journal this morning about how 71 cities and towns in the United States are now offering remote work incentive programs. The data was reported from Make My Move, which is based out of Indianapolis and is contracted by cities and towns to set these programs up.

So, you know, if you're a city that maybe not a lot of people have. wanted to move to in the past, like Tulsa, Oklahoma. You're now offering maybe up to $12,000 in cash, some subsidized gym memberships, free babysitting, office space. You're like, come here. Yeah. Genius. I think this is so interesting.

And it is a like, it is potentially a way to equalize some of the housing shortages. I mean, obviously there was also a story in the weekend, one of them, maybe the journal this over the weekend about how like the housing. crunch now is hitting cities that have never had a housing crunch before, like Boise, Idaho, or like Yuba City, California. People are leaving California. They're going to Austin. They're going to Miami, but they're also going to Nashville and Atlanta and Utah and other

places, you know, Colorado. To be fair, they're also leaving New York and they're also leaving Austin and going to, you know, it's not just California. Yeah, but New York and California are the big losers in all of this because it's too expensive in both those places. And if you can work remote, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you if a home in New York

in California is going to cost you low millions of dollars and in one of these other places it's going to cost you half as much or a third? You'd be crazy not to go. And for these, for Tulsa, I've got a population of 400,000,

I'm reading here. They brought in 1,300 high-paid tech workers to the city. Okay, that doesn't seem like a lot, but they're going to get it to 1% of their population right now it's 25, just over, it's 30 bibs. So, you know, a third of one point added to the population,

and it could be over 2,400 by the end of this year. Yeah, they're going to hit 1%. Maybe they hit 2%. Genius. Yeah. Genius. Even small towns with populations as low as 12,000 are offering these one Amazon engineer moved to Greensburg, Indiana, population 12,000 with his wife and two young kids.

He got $5,000 from the city, a year of free office space, a gym membership, and, and this is clutch, babysitting for his kids ages 1 to 3. Wow. So that sounds like a $25,000 package with the baby. Maybe there's a cap on the babysitting, but this sounds like a 10, 15K package. That's amazing. It's amazing. I actually have some friends who's doing this.

Finland has a program called 90-day Finn, where they're specifically trying to attract tech workers and investors to jumpstart their innovation economy. And I have some friends who in August are going to go to Finland and live there for three months with their kids go to school there, have an apartment. They're like hooking them up with the place to live and the visa stuff and just trying to attract talent now that this kind of remote flexibility exists. This is happening in Portugal as well. So they are running like some golden visa where you, you know, and you can-

I think they may have canceled it because so many Americans to give me. I think they like, yeah, I was looking at it during the pandemic. Now I'm going to lie. Yeah. I mean, but still, like, they had a thing where it was like, if you went and bought $500,000 with a property, you got a green card. Amazing. Yeah. And you can basically buy your passport in a lot of countries.

You know, you invest a certain amount of money. You get the green card and then eventually you get the passport. So I think it's great. I think the United States should do it too. I think every country should be doing this in every city and location. This is an LTV play, lifetime value. We give you 12K on the way in. Yeah.

But then you're paying, you know, whatever, five. 10,000 in local taxes. You got to eventually hire a nanny. You know, you start paying real estate taxes if they have those. Maybe they don't have state taxes some places. They have just high real estate taxes. Austin is 2%. Real estate tax, but no state tax. So, and you know, then you go to the state fair with your family, you make some donations, you buy a car from a local dealer. And all of that adds up to, you know, once you get somebody to move there and they love it, yeah. Okay, they're going to stay and they're going to have kids. Then the second thing happens, which is monetary velocity.

This is an important concept. Monetary velocity is how many times like a dollar turns over? So you take like, you know, the monetary, and there's different, there's M1, there's M2 supplies, but you can look it up on your own monetary velocity. You can actually, we can pull up a chart here from the Fed, but they track this. And what happens with monetary velocity,

I'm sure you're aware of it, Molly, is how often do the dollars turn over? Well, if you're in a small town, and there's no big fish there, There's no splashy, cashy, you know, 100K, 200K developers hanging out. The monetary, you know, people might be watching their balance sheet. They're, you know, peas and cues. Maybe they don't hire nanny.

You know, they, you know, will watch each other's kids, right? You walk your kids next door. I'm going to go out tonight. You watch my kids Friday night. I'll watch them for yours on Saturday. But then you get these high spenders in there, man, they're spending money. Well, that nanny they hired, right? Or the housekeeper, they go to the state fair too.

And they spend some money in the local vendor at the state fair. Then they start spending money at a local restaurant. And all of a sudden, the dollars start moving around. And each time those dollars move around, there's probably going to be some taxation on them. So that's what you have going on here. Is those 2,400 people in Tulsa, they might represent 10 times as much income, probably 10 times at least, of the bottom, you know, whatever, 25,000. So they have a massive impact, massive impact. And then there's the second and third order impacts.

They start a company. They start a company. Mm-hmm. So you bring these 2,400 tech workers there. You nailed it. What are those 2,400 people going to do? Okay, they're going to work at whatever company for three, four, or five years. Yeah, and then, you know, 10% of them, that's 240 people in Tulsa are going to start a company.

What if they start Uber there or Airbnb or Spotify? That's what happened with Shopify, whatever city they're in, I forgot which one it was in, in Canada. Somebody will remind me, they all of a sudden started having this whole Shopify mafia emerge, like the PayPal Mafia. So this is brilliant. The losers are places that are taxing too much and are unlivable and don't have good housing, which would be, you know, San Francisco comes to mine, New York, the Bay Area, writ large. You know, it's just too expensive to live in the Bay Area. And I tell every startup, if we're giving you seed funding, please do not come here.

Yeah. I'd love to meet you. I'd love to hang. But if you come here, you know, instead of paying $1,000, you know, for a one bedroom, you're going to pay three. Don't come here. It's not worth it. Yeah. You know, 100%. And if, and then these cities will have to adjust in some way, right? It's just sort of like the cure for high prices is high prices. Like at all, over time, there is hope that these things will even out. To be fair, the Bay Area is going to continue to have really good weather and really good

food. I mean, I love Cali, but I'm done. I want to get the heck out of here. I was on Zeta. I'm not even a lie. I was on Zillow last night looking at all my hometowns over the years. Like I was like, what's happening? Hold on. Do it. I mean, listen to your, your cost of living goes way down, you know, do it. I just got to get my kid through high school. But I'm on, I think I started the three year timer. I really do. I think so too. Because it just is like, I love it here. My life is here. I'm exhausted. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But it's exhausting. It's expensive. It makes no sense. You do the math and you do it is hard to justify. Well, and then how good might the high school be in another. location compared to the one you're in. I don't know exactly what your situation is. But,

you know, there are some great schools here, but there are also great schools everywhere, you know, and you can make that move too. So I think this is a great thing for America. Honestly, I do. You know, if people can move for opportunities and states have to compete, it's just like public schools versus private schools, you know, it's for health care. When there's competition, I'm going to just put some green pills out here. There's no competition. Exactly. There's no performance. These cities are disruptors. All these cities are like teeny little disruptors. And what they're saying is disrupt the status quo.

They're going to create competition. The incumbents are in New York City, Silicon Valley, even places like Austin, Denver, Miami that have already become hubs. All of those places could potentially be disrupted by Boise and Omaha. You know, like anything like a city. Tulsa's offering you a babysitter and thousands of dollars to move there. San Francisco hates tech workers. They blame them from all the problems. and it's dangerous and you have to pay huge taxes and why would you do that?

And we have this incredible fentanyl problem. Like, does Tulsa have like, you know, these same issues? I doubt it. I doubt it. It's better run. And the people who are running San Francisco are idiots, you know? And so you have incompetent leadership. We're going to Tulsa.

Listen, it's not for me. I've never been there, but I can tell you it's not for me. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. I don't know if it's for me. Places people love, places people love include Pittsburgh. I don't know how many people you know from Pittsburgh,

but they are the most evangelical about their city. People freaking love Pittsburgh. People love Boise. Yeah, I mean, this is the thing, right? You know, I don't live in Pittsburgh, man. That's a little rough, man. Everything that we're saying right now is all true until winter comes. Like my parents are, or my dad and my stepmom are in Montana,

and they were like, yeah, a lot of kids. Californians bought houses sight unseen during the pandemic. And I cannot wait to hear what it's like when they come here and they have one winter. And I'm like, mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. I'm down with winter. If I can ski for sure, but I just don't want cold for the sake of cold. Like, that's a hard note from me. All right. Let's do our series of cold. Listen, lots of founders are Lucy Goosey with their personal numbers. They put them in company documents. They use them for sales calls, all this stuff. And to make matters even more messy, when you do that, you don't know who's calling. Is it a sales prospect? Is it somebody you're trying to hire? Or is it somebody from your kid's school?

I don't know. It could be anybody. It could be an old flame. You don't want to get random calls during your summer barbecue. That's where Open Phone comes in. They let you create business phone numbers. You just go to their website, openphone.com slash twist. You can create a phone number and account in under a minute. I kid you not. And you give everybody on your team a phone number. Then they download an app and you're done. It really is that simple. You can also do round Robin. so we have a general sales call number and it goes from one person to the next to the next or you can have everybody's phone ring at the same time

first person to pick it up gets the call. That's the way to do it for customer service. This isn't like the old days. We have to buy a bunch of hardware. No, this is all done in software. And that's why it's so affordable. Open phone has a starting price of just $10 a month. I kid you not.

But Twist listeners can get 20% off any plan for the first six months by signing up at openphone.com slash twist. If you have an existing number, they'll pour it over for free. O-P-E-H-O-N-P-H-O-N-E dot com slash twist. Openphone.com slash twist. We've got a series A company here.

Before you move on, Jason, you should mention that New York is a bit of a different. It's weird because, like, long-term permanent residents are leaving Manhattan, but it's actually getting a huge influx of remote workers that just want to live in New York City. So, like, this is a weird thing where you're getting... Well, you explain it on the show. I don't need... Fascinating. Continue.

I don't even know. It's a really weird thing. I have like, I think you're talking about young people. Yes. Who want to like live in the city and this is their chance. Who are like, we're fed up with San Francisco. Their jobs went fully remote and they all move to Manhattan. And they're like, I don't like.

Because Manhattan is dope. Manhattan is adult Disneyland. But it's exactly. And these are all very high paid workers that are living in cool apartments. Yeah. Whatever they want to do. It's a really weird thing where a ton of families are leaving the city. But a lot of them are being replaced by like young tech workers.

Perfect. Well, they also built a lot of units. the number of skyscrapers going up in Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan is bonkers. So you keep adding inventory. It's still ridiculously expensive, but there is a technical inventory. I mean, it's expensive, but not for a tech worker. And then think about your life. You want to be on the Google bus for an hour and 15 each way every day?

Yeah. 10 plus hours a week on a bus? Or do you want to just like go hang out? Like the six downtown and rip it up after work every day. Seriously. Yeah. I mean, dude, Manhattan is the. dopest.

That's incredible. I mean, it's hard for a family, of course, but. I'm ready. I'm going to Manhattan. That's where I want to go. I would love to. Well, that's what I mean. I'm working 10 years.

My kids go to college and then I'm buying the Knicks, which is going to require a lot more investment. So let's pivot to series A. Maybe we can find some more investments here. Let's get back to the roots. Yeah, we've got to make some money. It's more green pills. I knew a segment currently titled Series A and M&A.

It rhymes. What do you? Series A. Series A dot dot and MNA. And M&A. All right, first up, Series A, Fadra is a startup selling, this is so interesting. A startup that sells machine learning software that regulates temperatures at power plants and industrial facilities.

They just raised a $25 million Series A led by Star Shot Capital. It's a Seattle-based startup founded by alumni of Google's DeepMind. And this was born out of something that was happening there. This DeepMind team built an internal machine learning tool at Google to optimize temperature inside Google's server farms. Okay. Which, as you might imagine, use a lot of energy.

So this wound up saving them a ton of money. I mean, interestingly, this is kind of what Nest does at the residential level. This is like the nest mode, eco mode. Oh, yeah. For factories, though. That's exactly it. For factories.

And so they say they can cut industrial factory energy consumption by up to 30%. This is just that is a massive. money savings for the companies who use it, but also, like, create so many fewer emissions that aren't necessary. It's phenomenal. Yeah, you can also put on a sweater, everybody. I'm turning it to the dad. You know, I get that eco mode going on my nest, and I'm like, yeah, 62.

That's when we turn on the heat. And, you know, I got a revolt, you know, in my house because everybody wants to walk around in a T-shirt and shorts. And I'm like, put a sweater on. Wear sweatpants. We're putting this at 62. We're going to save some money. But I lost that battle.

I do think it's awesome that they could know in a factory. Like if you were just thinking about Google server farms, okay, you might have this giant, you know, 10 football fields worth of servers, right, Molly? Yeah. The sun is going to hit them, right? So there's one variable, the sun. Then there might be some that have a lot of extra hard drives

because that's where they're storing all the photos for Google photos. And let's just say theoretically, those hard drives put out a little extra heat. Then there might be time of day, when they do backups. And they're doing backups, you know, at this time of day,

but the sun's on and it's making the hard drives go hotter. So they might be able to go and say, you know what, there's all this extra heat over here. Why? Okay, what's running on those CPUs? What's running on those?

Oh, it's the backups. Okay, you know what? Put the backups at night when the sun goes down because we don't have to cool this as much. Or, you know, and there's a million other possibilities. Oh, this set of servers has, you know, these GPUs in them. These have the older GPUs in them.

these don't throw off as much heat. So we should, oh, and by the way, inside of the, you know, server farms, here's where the air conditioning is pointing. Okay, if we, you know, keep it at this temperature overnight, then during the day it cools down, you know, there's a million different variables

that you would never know. Just like the algorithm serves you up content you didn't know you were interested in. And you start, like, I didn't know I was into food reaction videos, but that's not, now that's my TikTok, my entire TikTok, is this chef,

who is just like cynical and he just rates stuff on a scale of one to ten and he duets them and I can't get enough of it. Hilarious. Like that's what's going to happen with this stuff. I mean, imagine you do this for water. Oh yeah. This is one of the things I think is very interesting about climate investing is that this is the kind of stuff that software can accomplish.

Like efficiency and measurement energy efficiency is the most boring and most profoundly impactful single thing that you can actually do. right, as a person or a business. Like, being more energy efficient is like a four to one return. I'd like to have this guy on the pod. We should get him on. Jim Guy.

Yeah, Jim Gao. Come on the pod. Somebody knows him, let's talk about this stuff. He seems like a real smart cat. Love this stuff. 40% energy savings in Google's data center cooling systems. I mean, what a cool series A. This is where when everybody starts talking about water in California, I start banging my head against the wall.

Use less water. Yes. And like, did you realize we have campuses where they have one water meter on the entire campus or one per building you need to have water

smart meters that are recording and sending information to a central location so you know that this floor in this dormitory at Stanford has been running

five times as much water and then you got to send somebody up there to figure out that there's a leak and then fix it but because we just have building by building And then because we can't charge people the proper price for water,

we're in this like tragedy of the commons where nobody is conserving. Nobody's paying the right price for water. And, you know, this is where the collective, you know, this $100 billion surplus we have in California, we should just earmark a little bit of that for putting water meters everywhere. And just, I had some startups in this space. They didn't work out. but, you know, between desalinization

and just reducing water waste, because there are pipes, Molly, that are broken, and we have no idea how much water is being wasted. Some people say it's like a third of our water. Some people say half. Nobody knows how much of our water is being done. And we need to have it like down to, we should not be able to build a new building

or rent a new apartment. Every time an apartment goes for rent, it should have to have a water meter put on it going forward. And you could split that cost between the building and the rent or whatever, but it would probably cost like a thousand bucks. And then the landlord would know, hey, apartment 3C is using this much water. Like in apartment buildings, everybody pays the water bill.

And I'm on like a slack with everybody in a property I own talking about the building and the water bills. And they're like, why did our water bill go up three texts? And it's like, I don't know. Maybe somebody's got a broken toilet that's just spinning forever. Every unit needs to have its own water meter, but that's going to cost 40 grand, but then that would be paid for in the first 18 months. Right.

So you use that $100 billion for subsidies to do that. Yes, yes, exactly. Yes. And then charge people what it actually costs. Also, yeah, don't let drinking water come out of taps or come out of hoses. I mean, people are watering their lawns with drinking water. It's just shocking. Yeah, they could be using gray, right?

Yeah. But you have to measure it first. And that's what the sensors. Exactly. See, they don't mention sensors in this one about phaedra. But I wonder if phaedra, as part of this, has to put sensors in to know the actual temperatures in like the microclimates of the factory and, you know, putting sensors on each vent. So you could really start to understand things with sensors in a really interesting way. Yeah.

And sensor technology gets cheaper and cheaper. It's really clear. enabled a lot. Yeah. I wish that, um, I wish I'd known about Fedra before they close their series A. If anybody out there knows about a company like this. Yeah, email. Call me. Yeah. DMs. Siding to her DMs. I don't know. You have open DMs or no? No, God, no. I'm a lady on the internet. Oh, God, no, right. Woman on the internet. Totally. Sorry. No, thank you. I mean, I do get some pretty crazy stuff. Slide into Jason's DMs and maybe he'll forward it to me. Well, you could, you could, you could just add mention her on Twitter. My email account is in my Twitter bio.

Okay. Perfect. There you go. You know. All right, Molly. I was reading the old Wall Street Journal and you and I were chatting at 7, 8 a.m. today when we're queuing up the stories. That's a great time, by the way, to email producers at this week in Startups.com with a story idea. It's the 7 to 8 a.m. hours, the sweet spot.

But I... Pacific time, of course. Pacific time. P.T. Don't. Don't ping us at 7.4 a.m. Yeah. Wall Street Journal reported that amateur investors, retail investors, watching the stock market

slide are doubling down. Hmm. And this happened. the week after j trading started i would just want to point out that my first j trade was stitch fix and i'm not trying to like chest thump here but how's my stitch fix doing somebody told me i'm up 10 percent today let's say blue mary down kind of hmm not only are you moving markets but you are apparently creating trends you are literally setting trends in real time because here's the way here comes the wall street journal

And it's like, yeah, oh, yeah. I'm up 6% on my Stitch Fix trade. Okay. So if I can do 6% week over week, I double my money every 12 weeks. That's what you're in for, folks. So you're in for. Here's the, this is not investment advice. Here's the headline on the Wall Street Journal comes through on Google on IMessage.

And I'm like, oh my God, do I know this guy? Because this is the headline. Many investors are fleeing the stock market, but some are doubling down. Quote, if I lose $15,000, I'm not going to die. I'm immediately like, oh my God, is Jason in this story? Wait, is that what I said last week? I think that's what I said. I'm all word for word.

In this case, it was not about Jason, but it might as well have been. The number of retailing clients at Morgan Stanley, which owns E-Trade rose to 7.8 million at the end of June from 7.6 million. At the end of March, they made an average of 880,000 trades a day. Day traders and J-traders are going shopping. I like to call any downturn a big. sale at the stock store. Okay. And that's what we have going on.

And evidently people are taking an advantage and really like trying to plow money into the stock market in the hopes, you know, obviously of a three to five year. It's a small dollar amounts, right? Like I read the story as well, these were very small dollar amounts. And people I thought were making rational justifications for it. Because they quoted Luke Bowman or Bowman, a 32-year-old amateur investor, software engineer, okay, father of two. He's a software engineer.

He says, quote, am I buying the bottom right now? I don't know. But I do know I'm buying at a significantly deep discount. That's exactly what I said last week. And I said it's bouncing along the bottom in my mind. If it goes down another 25%, I don't care. I'm buying it because I have a 10-year window. And he says it's the classic Warren Buffett mindset of being greedy when others are fearful.

We go shopping on Black Friday to get discounts. This is the same. I kind of like that except the largest asset managers in the world. are not buying stocks yet. Right. They're sitting on the sideline. So this means it probably is going to go down more. The sophisticated investors are not getting involved.

But you know what happens if the retail investors do this? As they said, what was the thing they said on Wall Street bets? We can say, we can stay, I think they used a much more vulgar word. Yeah, we can stay stupid. Longer than you can say something. Longer than you can say something. So anyway. The edits better because alliteration.

We can stay stupid longer than you can stay solvent. Amazing. Got it. Right. So then does that effectively create a bottom? I know it takes a lot of retail dollars to move markets, a lot, a lot. But if there were enough retail dollars to say Stitch Fix is got 6% and it's not going back down, like, do, is there a world where institutional investors think they're waiting for a bottom

that doesn't come because retail gets in there and is like, sorry. Well, there's a lot of emotion here. We are at, if you were to look at the. The PE ratios over time. The PE ratios now are whatever it is, 20 or something on average. And the lows are usually 15 times. And so I think it could go down 25%. But if you wanted to own these stocks and you wanted to own them for 10 years, that was how

I came to the decision that I want to start buying companies I love and companies that I think are undervalued over the next six to 12 months and build positions in them that I'm going to hold for 10 years. Because I was using Vanguard funds, which I was using Vanguard funds, which I was. which is interesting in the story they talked about low-fee vanguard funds. And one person's approach was, I'm just going to keep buying, you know, whatever, 500 bucks a month in Vanguard funds,

instead of going out to dinner, instead of going out to the bar to drink, I invite my friends to drink at the house. Just like producer Nick does. So it's cool. They get the pregame on. Nick saves like, I don't know, you know, probably saves like 500 bucks a month pre-gaming.

I think I actually spend more money at the pre-games. It's like, yeah, you're... Oh, really? You're buying high end on the pregame? Yeah, we go classy at the pre-game. All right. Fine, but what would that free game have... Espresso martinis.

Apparel sprites. All right, those espresso martinis would question you, what is an espresso martini in Manhattan or newer? I'm mostly joking. It's got to be 25 bucks for an espresso martini. No, no. Like, probably like 16, 18, 16. Well, I'm thinking in a place I would like to go. I'm not talking about a dive bar.

I'm talking in like a proper cocktail. They don't really sell espresso martinis at dive bars, Jason. I'm sure you're not. All right. Well, I'm just saying if you went to a nice restaurant. Yes. Probably like 18 if you're in Manhattan. Okay, yeah.

So I rounded up to 25. with the tip and tax or whatever. So, yeah. You know, it's not cheap, is the point. So your espresso martini cost you three bucks at home. I will say that I, yeah, man, come on. I texted my financial advisor this story this morning. And I was like, wait, should I be doing this?

Should I be Operation Scrimp and save like the software engineer? And he wrote back, we are not gamblers. So. All right. I'm your financial advisor now. I want you to fire your financial advisor. And then you're going to join me on this journey. Sorry to, Mom.

Molly's financial advisor, you're fired. I want you to clear out everything and put it into a Robin Hood E-Trade account. And you're going to come on the... And by Bitcoin. I'm not giving financial advice, Molly. I'm not. But fire your financial advisor and let's start making bets. Orders.

I can tell you, I already had to inform him that I'm going to be doing angel investing and he was like, God help me. So... God help. We're good. We're good. No, I mean, I understand. Financial advisors are trying to protect against downside.

And that totally makes sense. It's great. they're trying to keep you in a certain strata because the chances of you hitting like crazy home runs is low and the chances of you losing is high. So they just want to, they don't want to get fired financial advisors. How do they not get fired by not having you experience like a 50% loss? They want to have you lose less than everybody else loses and just make a little bit, but they don't need to be heroes. So they're just trying to keep you in that band, right? Yeah.

Protects them out, which is understandable. That's great. That's not the station you're still a spring. the spring chicken here. You still got 20 years before you retire. Exactly. You should be making aggressive bets in my mind. But it's not financial advice.

That's why I'm here. Yes. But it's not, I'm not giving financial advice. No. Fire them and then start making J-trades. Okay? I'm not telling the audience to fire their financial advisors

and make J-trades. I'm just saying I got a girlfriend at Stitchfix. I'm not buying that. But I'm on 6% week over week. I turn $8,000. into like $8,600. It's literally going to be day trading. It's going to be day trading any minute now.

Sell, sell, sell, sell. All right, everybody. I'm telling everybody, tune in tomorrow, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I'm going to be making J-trades. As soon as his money clears into my Robin Hood account, I'm going to be splashy cashy the rest of the week. I need ideas. Somebody out Robin Hood about that clearing time.

Isn't Bitcoin supposed to solve that? Come on. Why is it settling taking so long? This is just so funny to like, and literally like, you're like living like a normal. right now waiting for cash to show up in your account. It's so dumb. You know what?

I could have, I could have stopped this whole thing just by doing a wire, but I just did, I guess, like automated ACH. But I'm like, why is there a 50K limit? Bank of America, a wealth from was a 250K limit. And, you know, Robin Hood's a 50K limit. Everything's a limit. Why is there so many limits? All right.

Thanks for listening. Before we wrap, though, we just, we have a little fun. We have a little fun to take us out on. We do. What do you think? I'm based on your tweets over the weekend. Jason tweeted. the following prompt, which got, in his words, some great engagement.

2,000 people reply to this thing. 2,000 people. Oh, yeah, read it for us, read it for us. I just said, terrify your investors in five words. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then we're going to go ahead and look at some of the responses. Somebody put, Jason is joining our board. But for the other investors, yeah, because it's going to be go time.

So, sure, why not? Full contact. J-Call's on the board. Jake Hale's joining our board. Jim Kramer said he's bullish. Oh, that's a lot. I like Jim Kramer. Stop them. Come on.

Oh, Ginny Lingham. Vinnie, front of the pod. 3-AC owes us some money. Very good, very good. All right, Heidi says, withdrawals have been temporarily suspended. Oh, okay, I said it's a theme emerging. Greg, with a bunch of numbers.

Greg, 16, 7, 669, 35, 420? Yes. Timed in? We have a ride. Wait a second. Did Sam? Yes. He really did.

Give him a Tesla plaid. No. Yes. That is the craziest story ever. Okay. So Greg 16669, 35420 is this like reply parody account and he's hilarious. He's hilarious. He gets famous people to reply to him and he's got a very weird looking face that has been

photoshopped. in a weird way, and he's hilarious. And he's hilarious. And he responded to Sam or just asked him, I think. If I can type this fast, will you give me a model, a plaid? Because Sam from FTX was saying that he types really fast and that was some advantage. And then Greg did a video of himself typing. And apparently Sam is so crazy, he bought him a Plaid Model S.

So I'm willing to get you an Ember mug, but we're not giving a Tesla plaid out here. we're not. Although, I feel like his response then to your prompt was both hilarious and kind of meta. Because he said, I learned this strategy on TikTok.

Which is six words. So you probably just drop the eye. Yeah. Okay, sure. And then Austin, All read, he, famous entrepreneur,

he wrote, We can always raise more. That is funny. That is truly terrifying. Interestingly, I did one, which was delight your investment. in five words. I got 200 responses.

No one cares. I terrorize them got 2,000 plus and growing. No one wants to be positive.