This Week in Startups - Apple Vision Pro, Meta’s MusicGen, Waitroom demo & more with Vinny Lingham and Sunny Madra | E1760

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

This Week in Startups is presented by: MasterClass. Learn from the world’s best minds - anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. Get 15% off an annual membership to MasterClass at https://masterclass.com/startups. Merge. Let your developers get back to their core product. Merge is a single API to add hundreds of integrations to your app. Integrate up to 3 customers for free today at https://merge.dev/twist Lemon.io - Hire pre-vetted remote developers, get 15% off your first 4 weeks of developer time at https://Lemon.io/twist * Todays show: Vinny and Sunny are back! First, Vinny demos Waitroom (2:12), before the group breaks down Apple’s new Vision Pro headset (41:10), then, Sunny demos a suite of new AI tools, including Meta’s MusicGen model(19:53). Follow Vinny: https://twitter.com/vinnylingham Checkout Waitroom: https://waitroom.com/ Follow Sunny: https://twitter.com/sundeep Checkout Definitive: https://definitive.io/ * Time stamps: (00:00) Vinny and Sunny join Jason (2:12) Waitroom's features (5:38) Waitroom's design for VC's and Sunny's thoughts (9:42) Features to add to next (13:43) Masterclass - Get 15% off an annual membership to MasterClass at ⁠https://masterclass.com/startups.⁠ (19:53) Meta's MusicGen (24:26) Creating music with AI (29:03) Merge - Integrate up to 3 customers for free today at ⁠https://merge.dev/twist (30:35) Exploring authenticity as AI becomes more prevalent (32:27) Sunny demos LumaLabs (36:55) Jason AI interviews Steve Jobs (39:45) Lemon.io - Get 15% off your first 4 weeks of developer time at https://Lemon.io/twist (41:10) Apple's Vision Pro headset (42:32) The key differences between Oculus Meta Quest and Apple's Vision Pro (49:49) The effects of headsets in the workplace (52:53) Using ControlNet to create artwork for QR codes (56:39) Developing code using Replit * Read LAUNCH Fund 4 Deal Memo & Apply for Funding Buy ANGEL Great recent interviews: Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis * Follow Jason: Twitter: https://twitter.com/jason Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis * Follow TWiST: Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin * Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast

The action item's obvious. If I were to say right now, action item, each week Vinny shows up with more than just his opinions, but he brings two or three actual demos of AI products. That would put it as an action item. Yes, Vinny? That's correct, Jason. This week in startups is brought to you by Masterclass. Learn from the world's best minds.

Anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. Get 15% off an annual membership to Masterclass at Masterclass. slash startups. Merge. Let your developers get back to their core product. Merge is a single API to add hundreds of integrations to your app. Integrate up to three customers for free today at merge.dev slash twist and lemon.io. Need to speed up your product development without draining your budget. Hire vetted engineers from Europe at lemon.io. Go to lemon.io slash twist to get 15% off for the first four weeks. All right, everybody, welcome to this weekend startups.

It's our AI roundtable with Sunny Montre and Vinnie Lingam. If we look a little different right now, it's because we're trying out Vinnie's super cool new product, waitroom.com. Tell us, welcome back to the show, Sunny and Vinny. Good to be back. Good to be back, Jason. Thanks for joining me in Waitroom.

Yeah, so it's Waitroom.com. This is your product. Yes. I see three video windows. Looks similar. It's in a browser. It looks similar to Zoom. some slight differences.

Tell us what we're experiencing here and how AI works into all this. So if you just click on the right end side, you obviously see people, but go to the summer AI. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer rise, exactly. Summer AI.

Summer. Yeah. And so you can then see all the stuff, which like we've been telling up before we started the recording. Oh, wow. So action item. Michael, to invest in audio and video stems and signed it to Michael. Michael's my co-founder is in the room here as well.

it's listening and it gives insights there that you have. You can scroll up and see all the different stuff we spoke about. And it's really cool because we're going to have a Slack integration button here. So you will push these things to Slack and you can push this. This is crazy. Look at this. It says catch up. The team engaged in a casual conversation about video quality beauty filters, touch up

my appearance, and recording methods during a virtual meeting. That's an accurate description of my first five minutes on here. So if somebody was coming in, they can catch up really quick. quickly, but also this insight here, the action item's obvious. If I were to say right now, action item, each week Vinny shows up with more than just his opinions, but he brings two or three actual demos of AI products. That would put it as an action item. Yes, Vinny?

That's correct, Jason. What's the lag between me telling you an action item and actually getting done? And then also summer AI summarizing it. So why we get my co-founder Michael to chime in quickly and he's This is the charming feature, so he gets 45 seconds to tell us. Oh, okay. So it takes about two and a half minutes. Obviously, you can't summarize every second because that doesn't make any sense,

but it's approximately two and a half minutes of conversation that we summarize every end chunks as they go along. We also, the stories also get better over time because we keep feeding that context as the conversation is happening to the LLM. And so it's more accurate and just, you know, improve those are going to go. along. What's more difficult, Michael? You know, the new state of AI and working with these language models or dealing with an insane dictator like Vinnie? Oh, sorry, you're out of time. You're out of time. That's the end of your 45 seconds. Sorry, Michael. That's actually pretty cool, though. So I'm looking at it right now while we were having that chime in feature. So this is kind of cool for a live audience. I could have people, I can allow people

45 seconds and I can hover over that end key and just end them anytime I want. Absolutely. And you get multiple people chiming in as well and you can have multi-shimes. Yeah, we've had hundreds and thousands people in the room. So it's like kind of like Twitter's faces, but with video. So you can do a video like the three of us and then people, you know, you can add more co-hosts or you can just have people chime in for a few seconds. Sure.

Great. What I like about it, though, is while we were talking, it did an insight. And again, it's like, it's like a DVR. It's like every two and a half minutes it chunks the transcript and tries to make sense of it. And here it says insight weight room.com can help teams catch up faster with meeting summaries and action items, etc. Except it. It's a transcribed weight room incorrectly, W-E-I-G-H-T versus W-A-I-T room. Now, the cool thing is that now on the back end, we're going to train that.

And so it'll now recognize that when you refer to weight room, it actually means weight room. So it's going to get smarter over time. and when we move from, you know, like GPD4 to 4.5 or 5. Well, look, my action item came in. So let me do another action item here. Action item. Allow each some AI item,

whether it's a catch-up action item or insight, to have a threaded comment thread, and port all of those or pipe all of those into a Google sheet, Notion page, or Slack room. So we have them for all time. That's an action item. That'll,

it'll do it. Action item, Michael. Um, so you know, I think, this is great for a dictatorship. This kind of software really shows the power of, uh, dictators.

No, Michael cannot chime in. No. Okay. So, Michael, you had your shot. That's enough.

Number you, Mike's like, I want another 45 seconds. So that's the beauty of this. Anyway, so I think the purpose of this demo we are, was to show you like what we're doing. And you,

And so we're actually focusing right now is on VCs, funny enough. So because VCs have a very strong power in the industry right now, if you're a startup and you get a link from a VC, you want to pitch them on, you know, on your startup, you don't care whether it's a Zoom link, a Microsoft Meetings link or a Waitroom link. You'll use whatever they give you to join the call. So that's the first thing.

Secondly is VCs tend to be a little lazier. They don't want to be updating their Salesforce every single time they chat to a startup. we will have a Salesforce integration where every time you have a meeting, it updates when you spoke to them, and then also put in, you know, insight from the meeting in there, into the notes, et cetera. And the reason this is interesting is that we are building custom prompts around our LLM. And we'll have an LLM in the future probably, but for now, custom prompts on GPD, on OpenAI. And those custom prompts understand the VCs business intricately. So as the startup is pitching, giving things, giving ideas, it'll be able to alert you to potential conflicts with other startups in your portfolio.

It'll be able to tell you, maybe you should connect this guy with another founder in the portfolio. So we're going to make it very customized. And the summer AI tab right now is common between all three of us. But you can have a private tab as well where it gives you private insights. Like, hey, Sunny's company is in conflict with this other portfolio company. Be careful not to tell them about this project that the company's working. Be careful with that. Be careful with that feature.

Well, so we have to train it, right? So once the model's well trained, it's going to give insights to the VC or whatever as the host and private insight. So that's, I think that's powerful. That's a really interesting idea. Okay, Sonny, you've been hearing all this and you're looking at it. What are your thoughts on this 1.0 of real-time meeting transcriptions, action items? I know some other people like Otter and there's a couple of people who've had some, you know, touched on some of these ideas. but this is pretty much the best execution I've ever seen.

Yeah, I mean, I think in your action items just showed up in the right here. Look, I really like this. You know, it's almost, there's like two aspects. One, there's the real-time capture of information that's like, you know, generally been a problem. And I think, you know, Vinnie has done it really nice, like integrated natively in the product. A lot of those tools, you have to add them as like extensions or like a new person into a Zoom meeting, which obviously, you know, changes the dynamic of a meeting. So I really like that.

I think the other thing that's cool here is the feature that Vinny just talked about is like the back channel, right? So whenever you're running a meeting, you always have some kind of back channel running either. It's within a private chat or a WhatsApp or I message. And so most of that is just for context of like, oh, hey, like let's talk about this next or something. And so I think like combining that could be really, really powerful. You know, these actions are coming in really great. Like, I think it's, you know, it's, you know, it's the other action item, which was pipe

AI items like catch up action items, insights into Google Sheets, notion, or Slack, which was the exact. So in order for these kind of technologies to work, you need to have some percentage confidence, I think, right, Sonny? Like, I don't mind if weight room is spelled wrong. You know, that people could hear that wrong. Like, a human hears that wrong all the time.

I might say calm and they think it's palm. You know, you know, I might say Apple. They might think it's Snapple. It doesn't really matter if it gets a word, wrong once in a while. But if it gets the gist of it, I can edit it and work on it. But when you have a great product like this or a great starting

point, Vinnie, I always tell founders this, you can tell when something has really got some potential, something does have a lot of potential if users, when using it, immediately come up with five or six ideas. Now, that doesn't mean that it's the perfect roadmap. It could be custom software for them.

But at least it means sunny that people are inspired. So what do you think you add to this next? What are the features you add next to wait room. If you were on the board or you were an investor, I don't know if you are an investor, what do you tell you, Vinnie, hey, dummy, you missed this, this and this. Well, look, I think the opportunity here is when Zoom took off, you know, during the pandemic and at the start, it was really low friction. What happened is as it's, you know, kind of gone enterprise, it has lost some of that low friction stuff. And now there was reasons

for people were showing up in random Zooms and all that. So I'd say, go back to low friction, any keep the cost super low. I really like this idea of shortening the meetings. And so you're already kind of doing that. And then integrating with other tools. I think that's the biggest, biggest feature here is integrating into other workflows.

Connect the API to if this, then that and Zapier. And you've got. Yeah, we need Zapier very soon as well. Tons of, tons of interventions. By the way, it's free. So, like, we're not even charging for it right now. It's free because, you know, we want the models to learn and train. And so the more conversations we have, the better we're getting at doing this.

So, you know. The good news for building services like this. I remember there was a Sequoia company that made video conferencing as a service. And I think all like AWS and Google, they all provide some sort of video relay as a service now. Yeah. Yep, yep. Which ones have you tried or which one do you? use? Any thoughts on the back end here and how effective that is for people?

I haven't used any of those. Yeah. So did you, you didn't have to write the video back end though, right? No, no, no, no. We use Agora. So we use Agora on our back end. Um, uh, but we, you know, we, like there are a number of companies doing it and Agora's been doing it for quite a while and they're a public company and we've been working and they know, we kind of use them, I guess, when Clubhouse was blowing up, and they were using Agora, and we said, okay, well, we should try it as well,

because they got to some crazy amount of scale. And by the way, Clubhouse went the same VC route as well. They went to the VCs first, both the community, and then it just blew up. And we started using Agora, and the product has improved dramatically over the past two years. I mean, we, you know,

Agora's product, yeah. They just came adding features, yeah. Yeah, and the founder came from WebEx, and the other founder, co-founder, like I think it was a co-founder of Zoom as well. So, you know, these guys understand their business and we're very, like, we're very happy to, you know, use their platform. It's going well. I mean, like, the quality we, so we're running this stream at 640 by 360, we can jack it up to whatever, right?

So it's pretty, it's pretty easy for us to go up. Because while it's free right now, this is live in production, by the way. So it's just free. So we're running low risk because why should we pay, you know, the high risk? We're not charging people. We're still in product development phase. But as the product improves, and we get, I think we're running. going to, we can go up to 4K.

So, um, you know, so we, that could be an upgrade package, right? So you pay for wait room. The AI is built in.

You want 4K. You pay a little bit more. You want, uh, integrations into certain, you know, into sales force. There's a fee for that.

So there's ways to make money as. You could also have a, um, a third tab here, which is transcript. And you can annotate the transcript. So you can have another one just the, you know,

run transcript. And you can annotate it. At the end of the meeting, at the end of the meeting, you're going to get, get a meeting minutes of the entire meeting. So it gets email to you and then you can forward it around or you can send the people in the company.

So we do it already. Even here when you have an insight or a catch up or an action item, it tells you the timestamp of it. And so that is super helpful if you wanted to jump to the timestamp, you could. And it's a range. And it's range. Like the last one you just came through 1036 to 1038. So for the past two minutes, we'll be speaking about Agora's experience of clubhouse and

found his background. So it tells you the time, like it's not. a single time stamp it's the range of when the conversation is having. Yeah, it's great. One of the reasons why criticism can feel obnoxiously aggressive is that sometimes people use criticism to sort of dominate or assert superiority. And that is not helpful criticism. So state your intention to be helpful.

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And I guess you could pick more or less. So that would be kind of cool too, is if I could have three settings, like more details, less details because, you know, and then also, does it know who everybody is? Yes. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it knows you, Jason. Yeah, so that's kind of interesting for our producer, producer, Nick, you know, when you have guests on the show or people are speaking, you get four different quick times from them and you can kind of line them up. But when you send a raw Zoom meeting, it doesn't know who's who, right?

You have to train it on who's who if you using a service like Temi or any other than descript or whatever. You have to like assign who is who. But here you don't, you know 100% who is who because they dialed into the meeting. So that's kind of awesome as well. You could put the percentage that people spoke, people who didn't speak. You could do what is the one for sales people gong? And there's a bunch of competitors to gong.

You could put like people, you know, people who ask questions, people who are inquisitive, people who are definitive, you can kind of add those kind of characteristics to it. So when I use grammarly, grammarly has a feature where we'll tell you, I don't know if you use grammarily, sonny. Yeah, I guess. Do either of you pay for grammarily? I do.

I pay for it too. So it's very interesting. And I pay for all my teams to use it. And when they don't have it on, like on a video conference, I go nuts because I'm just like, look at these spelling errors. Look at these grammar errors. Like, I'm a writer. Like, I have errors.

Like, if you're going fast and you're typing. But it has AI built into it now to make things longer, shorter, etc. But it also just has tone detection. So it's like, this is definitive. Well, that's the thing. So with AI, you're going to have, so in the future, Within three to five years, we're going to have the ability to read Sonny's face, your face, my face, look for like expression points, see, oh, Jason's angry right now,

Sonny's happy, et cetera. That's my bullshit face. You'll be able to do all you. I think you pretty cool stuff on, especially large groups. But like, you know, back to what you were saying, about the summaries. So Michael's actually working on a daily digest right now. So you'll be able to get a daydial of all your meetings, daily stats, summaries. And oh, the other cool thing, Jason, you could say something in this meeting like,

hey, Nick, ping me next week or even say, Nick, I'll give you, I'll send this doc to you by Sunday. And on Saturday, you'll get an email from the system saying, hey, you promised Nick in this meeting. Reminders. So now, remind us. So because it's intelligently understanding what the conversation is about, we're going to make it, we're going to make it way more integrated into your life. It's interesting if you combine this sunny with something like Slack or Asana or something. or Notion or Coda,

where people are doing their task management, etc. You could have these conversations know the project we're working on and have the OKRs or whatever and have the context of that, yeah? Yeah, I think what's interesting here, Vinnie, like, you know, when you've been evolving this product

and its weight room, you know, from its first incarnation, but it really is interesting now that you could think about this as an AI-native meeting tool, rather than the weight room concept. And so that's super powerful because it's doing all the work is what we see these AI is doing for us.

And so I don't know, maybe you have to even consider the name to do something like that. We have, we've had some conversations about that. That's definitely, wait. It's great. Wait room is great.

But Jason says it's nice. I think also like it's six. One word domain name. It'll add all this other features. It sticks to the sort of roots that we have. We can consider it. We do have like Nation, notion integration as well.

You'll be able to ask summer like, Hey, Summer, what are the sales for the past three months in the company? And if it's in notion, it'll look it up and give it to you right there. So while you're having a conversation at your meeting, you can actually,

without interrupting, like, interrupting the flow, opening up a new tab and whatever else, be able to pull the information out. You have a live assistant who's doing work for you. It's like having Jarvis at an eventors meeting, you know?

I tried getting Jarvis.com. What's the key about that? All right, enough. This has been great. There's your 20-minute commercial for Wait Room, but there's seriously a great job on the AI features. And let's go back to Zoom and finish the episode. All right, Sonny, you've been great at getting a bunch of really interesting demos

every week here for our AI roundtable on this week in startups. Over the past week, what did you play with? What did you find most interesting? Yeah, so I'm going to touch on some things that we, saw in different places, I think a couple weeks ago. So I'm going to just pull up a video here. And we tried the Google music generator. So now we have, which was called Music LLM, now we have music gen from Facebook and meta. And so very similar. Interestingly, you know, there is, someone has taken it and themselves and hosted it at at Hugging Face. Because, you know,

We've talked about what Hugging Face is doing for the AI community as well, which is great. And so very similar to the Google one we looked at, to Facebook one. And it's hosted here. So it takes a little bit longer to generate. So I pre-generated. But you can see the examples down below here where if you want an 80s driving pop song with drums in the background or a 90s. You want to try this one? Yeah, sure.

We're going to have to wait a second here. This does take some time. but so this particular service is generating again music samples I think really really powerful for creators or you know folks that need intro outro music maybe for this pod we can generate one of these now because we can do something slightly different than what's already there in the default this week in startup jkow okay let me ask you a question about this processing speed that's going on here If you were doing this on your local computer and you had some great GPUs, would it go faster?

Or is this like using a lot of cloud? No, this, because it's a free service, is not using a lot of infrastructure. So you're probably getting shared GPU services. So if you had a really great GPU locally, you would definitely get a faster return here. It's only generating about 12 seconds as well. Okay.

So let's hear it. Yeah. Feels like a Miami Vice episode. Miami Vice, a two-part series this Sunday night on NBC. So, you know, I was going to talk in the episode. Okay, okay. It's pretty great. I have to say it.

Like, if it's doing this today, it's going to be doing so much more. I was, you know, when we went to see Keigo, me and Sunny went to see, is it Kaigo? Is it Kaigo? Is that he pronounced his name? I think so. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I decided I would like to be.

be a DJ and do a DJ set. So I want to do like a J-Cal AI DJ set, but I'm going to need help. I want a completely AI generated original DJ set. So I'll put that on the list of things that somebody can help me with to get themselves a general admission ticket. I need a producer or somebody to prompt engineer. I don't know what I need exactly. I think you need a prompt engineer.

a producer that is also good at prompt engineering. I mean, in the future, you'll have like prompt engineers and then, yeah, dropping some crimes vocals from the AI there. And yeah, just get a producer, get blood pop to polish it off. Done and done. Yeah. But so, you know, look, why is this interesting? We're just seeing now.

And like, well, let's maybe pause this one for a second. But, you know, Facebook's work, they're in and around the open source is great, because they're making these models available for everyone to use and pick them up, working obviously very closely with Hugging Face. And so I think it's great, great for the ecosystem. What's going to be great about this, Vinny, is if you look at the bottom 50% of music usage, it doesn't require, you know, all that much quality. It doesn't require that much uniqueness.

If we were doing something where we needed a little bit of music for a short film or commercial background for an add read in a podcast. You know, this will let you, instead of using stock music for your YouTube video, create something unique for you. But the truth is,

those people would never have hired an actual musician in the world to do this. They would never have spent $1,000 on it. They would have bought stock music per 10 bucks. And so here, instead of buying stock music for 10 bucks, you can do it for free and make something

truly unique. And that's just something that dawned on me, Vinny, is that we're going to be able to make unique stuff that's better than clip art. and royalty-free. Yeah, so I'm actually investing in a music startup that I can't take a little more stealthy, but they're basically, their thesis is that music gets democratized. Like, I can't play an instrument, right?

So I'm terrible. I can't play music. I love listening to music. I can't play it. And so they're trying to make it simpler for people to create this music and using AI as part of the whole thing. And I think, you know, I think we're going to see a lot more. of those types of startups in the market where basically enabling the mass market to be more

participatory in the music industry creating music now obviously you're gonna you know it's it's one of the things where music itself to learn like how to read music and sheet music and and how to play instruments is it takes years and lots of like you know muscle memory etc now i think there's there's definitely an opportunity for like what rock band did right rock band crushed it when they came out. They, you know, kids were playing rock band all time and their PlayStation's and drumming and whatever else. And I think you're going to see more of that.

I think you're going to see more startups leveraging AI to basically make it really, really easy to create your own music. And this is a good example of it already. Well, you can see where this is going to go, Vin, Sunny, very simply, there will be one of these for drums, one of these for guitars, one of these for vocals, one of these for piano. And, you know, you'll be able to specialize in a particular instrument, you know, and go deep on that, right? Like, you just think about guitar. I saw you had like a guitar riff. You could start

really, you know, an AI could go very deep, just didn't get to talk guitar, whether it's classical or rock or heavy metal, you know, uh, folk music, etc. Nobody's done that yet, right? No, I mean, I think, and that's, that's a really good insight, Jekyll in terms of like where we're probably going to go overall with these models is we'll start with really large ones that are generic and then we'll work our way into like, you know, I guess like almost application specific. And so a really great one for guitars and a really great one for synthesizers. And so yeah, I, and then people will specialize them in the way they do with real instruments, right? They'll understand how to work with them to get them, you know, like as a musician can understand how to work with the guitar to

get it to generate, you know, incredible sounds. We'll see the same thing here. Yeah. And then the next step, Vinny, is you say, here's an artist and here's their catalog. Um, here. their views and comments on YouTube. You know, you take an artist, you know, that has an incredible library, say Bob Dylan. Just feed in the entire Bob Dylan.com lyric site, every album, every bootleg concert. And then you say, come up with a new song for Bob Dylan that combines, you know, this news story, you know, something happening in the world with, you know, and write me a protest song or give me some ideas for a project.

I did this the other night where I was trying to come up with names for a new conference. I was brainstorming after Angel Semmel. And so well, I had an idea for a new conference. And I was brainstorming with chat GPT. And I was like, come up with a name for this new podcast and this new conference. And it has to have this word in it. And it came back with three incredible names that I would have never come up with. And this was in the first 10 minutes of brainstorming with chat, GPT.

So the brainstorming forgives your accuracy. Hallucinations in brainstorming are good. You know, kind of like that's why people smoke weed. I'm not advocating smoking weed for kids listening. But that's why some people will, you know, take a gummy or smoke some weed and then come up with brainstorming ideas. I kind of feel like we're also going to see something in that vein where you take the body of work plus these new tools and then come up with either unbelievably, uncannily,

accurate tracks or new sounds. Yeah. It's also hard to tell. I mean, I've seen people posting clips of, hey, here's a collab between these two musicians. And then they go,

ha, kidding. I just created that using, you know, AI. So, like, how do you know anymore when you,

like, it's going to be really, really difficult to, um, yeah, like, I'm a bit concerned with identity as it applies to audio.

Because you can't see, right? Like, you know, visually, you can see when there's a fake bot on the screen. Like, you can, yeah, that's not real. But with audio, it's so perfect and so crisp and so clear right now, you can mimic people's voices. You can create songs. You can, like, I'm almost certain we're going to get a number one hit that's fake at some

point. Totally. Closing big enterprise deals is never easy. The last thing you want to do is slow down your sales team because of a lack of integrations in your product. And, you know, B2B buyers, they expect integrations. You're a startup founder. You're building B2B software.

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Again, you get three linked accounts for free already at merge. dot dev slash twist. Check it out. It is a game changer. I have a guy on YouTube I follow. He's called Laslo Bernie.

It's only got 34,000 subscribers. but check this out. This first one is the Sultans of Swing by Dyer Shades if it was written by Pink Floyd. So this guy understands the style so well that he can, you know, play the Sultons of Swing as if it was Pink Floyd, you know, Dyer Straits to Pink Floyd.

And then you can also do a Pink Floyd song as Dyer Straits. So this is comfortably numb, famous Pink Floyd's song. song, coming at you. K-Rock 97.5, New York City, Long Island coming to you. Jones Beach, 87 degrees.

And overcast, we might get some thunderstorms while you're rocking the beach. Stick with us. Get some AA batteries for your CD player. I also, I think I tweeted out like a couple weeks ago, these guys hired this actor who looks just like Paul McCartney

and they wrote this like parody song and he actually played the song, but like, they used AI for the voice. So it sounded just like Paul McCartney, they use AI for the actual song. But there's an actor.

So now you think, what, that sounds like him, it looks like him. It's not, it's not an AI, it confused me because I thought it was an AI vote. I thought,

like, other was Paul McCartney for real, but they made, it made it looks, it was kind of weird. It's crazy. Well, it's kind of like the deep fake,

Tom Cruise, which we all see. There we go. That's the one. Yeah. Oh, my Lord, that is... Okay. Let's do another demo.

All right. Sure. So just continuing here, another area, which I think is going to get really, really exciting, you know, ties into a bunch of spatial stuff, as we should call it now, because we don't use the M word anymore, is, you know, 3D generation. The M word being. Metaverse. Metaverse, yes.

It's spatial now that there's actually a real product. Yes. Made by a real company. There's always been real products. So what you can see here, and if you've ever been in and around, Luma Labs. Luma Labs. Okay, here we go. Image 3D, version 1.2 alpha.

Okay. Yep, exactly. And what they have here, and I don't have access, I'm on the wait list, but they have some pre-built 3D models. And so here I'm going to just pull up a highly detailed sculptor of a squirrel wearing a purple hoodie. And, you know, this is a proper 3D model. And you can imagine this is incredibly valuable for folks that are building things in the

Spatialverse and or video games, anything along those lines. And this, if you've been in around like 3D generation, this was a very, very, you know, kind of time-consuming. aspect. Yeah, and expensive. And so now, and for years, the way that this was mostly handled is there was these huge libraries of open source models that people would start with and then go from there. But now the ability to kind of generate these from a prompt is going to be incredible for the industry.

This is for video games as well. This is for Pixar movies. This is for any 3D modeling. Could be games, could be casual games. could be a movie or a TV show. So you can imagine immediately somebody taking a storyboard or somebody taking a screenplay and you could literally upload a screenplay to this product with a little bit of glue. Maybe you use chat GPT or Bard

as the general AI in this model and then tell it to use this one to make the characters. But you take it and just say, hey, you know, make Pulp Fiction but with cute furry animals or miniature animals. and it just takes every character, makes them into puppets or whatever you choose. And now you've got a storyboard.

And you just literally take scenes and say, make me this scene from Inglorious Bastards. And then just give it prompts to change the characters around until, you know, Quentin Tarantino feels a certain inspiration. This is really going to be amazing for ideation from directors and screenplay writers. And they want, by the way, they want to ban it. And on music, you know, friend of mine who is a, like, kind of does a podcast as a rapper, you know, he, he was saying

what people don't understand with these music generated AIs, like what we were talking about earlier is, this is how music is pitched, right? So today, if you want to pitch something to a famous artist, you may write it and then you may lay it down on a track and then get it over, but to put it in their voice is going to be hugely beneficial for the creation industry. because that's how, you know, that's the, and again, like, that's the general process. And I think, you know, Jacob, you and I have talked about maybe having Rob Goldberg on to help us here because he spent a lot of time in around music. But that's the process, right? You come up with either the lyrics or the beat.

So I write this great song, I'm Sia. I write chandelier. And instead of, and then I just say, hey, here's me singing it. But then you say, take the top ten pop artists who are trending right now and put it in their voices and send them a, one minute sample to their phones. Yes. And whoever wants this song can have it for a million bucks. Yeah. And wow, that's powerful. Yeah. And so that, I thought that was a really interesting way of looking at it because, you know, already today, you know, it's already happening. I may come up with a beat or I may come up with the lyrics and then I'm, you know, recording it and sending it over.

And then the artist has to think about how they think about, you know, how it's sound in their voice. Now you can take it one step further. And then the artist says, oh, great, I want to take this on. So for creators, I really thought that was an interesting way for them to look at it. And that applies here. If you've got a great game idea before getting it funded, you could build something that's like a prototype and then go off, get your funding and build out the whole game. All right. And as we were talking about before, here is the AI Steve Jobs. Jake Hal and shout out to.

Edward Brower, Brower. I have one demo I prepared for us. Great, awesome. You'll go next. One demo and one other thing. It's not really a demo, but I want to show you guys and tell you what I think. Oh, my God. It's got a cute. Here we go. Oh, they saw this one. Yeah. Here we go. They think. But this is Apple 101. It just didn't make sense to do a VR headset until now. When Apple releases something,

it's because the preconditions for releasing something insanely great have been assembled. Really, that is the secret formula. Apple has made mistakes and you have to try things. But Apple tends to get the big things right. Now, I think that brings us to Siri. Apple had an incredible lead, and it seems to have vanished now. Siri feels antiquated. Isn't Apple dropping the ball at this point?

You know, sometimes when you are the first, that means that going back and redoing the architecture, when there are big breakthroughs takes more time. I'm like oddly compelled to keep listening, not for myself, but for Steve Jobs. I look like some weird hybrid of me and Christopher Walken. Yeah. So, Steve Jobs. This reality headset is making my mind go cuckoo.

Yeah. I'm just saying Edward Norton. It's a little Ed Norton, too. There's a little Ed Norton going on there. Yeah. But not too shabby jobs. I bought Apple stock in 1979. Yeah.

Wow. I mean, they're better off doing it with the 3D models. Yes. But I mean, the thing I love about that version, and I think that the copy was written by the individual, not by AI, is that it's familiar to have me interview a founder, which is cool.

Yeah. But if you put the right text in his, and you give him the right script, you know, and listen, respect to the family and like, we're not making a mockery of anything here. It just does bring back this,

and maybe there's some like period of time before doing these things that make sense. But it does make me really miss Steve Jobs being in the industry and the incredible force he was. I don't want to get emotional or anything, but like he's just such a great force to have in the industry to comment on stuff and to push the industry and it was like such a nonconformist and an incredible thinker that I just kind of miss

hearing him pontificate. I could listen to the guy for hours. I have listened to the guy for hours. All right. You got a great idea for your tech startup. And hey, listen, you're going to change the world. I know you're going to do it. But there's a problem. You don't have engineers, right? You need engineers. You need those developers. But it's hard to find them. And it's certainly hard to find them quickly. So if you're trying to reduce your burn rate and you're in a tight spot and you need to get engineering talent right now. But what you want to do is imagine there was a partner who could provide you with more than a thousand on-demand developers. These are really good developers. They're vetted, they're experienced, results-oriented, and they're passionate about helping you grow your

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Go to Lemon.io slash twist and find your perfect developer or tech team in 48 hours or less. And Twist listeners get 15% off their first four weeks. So stop burning money, hire developers and hire developers, martyr by visiting lemon.io slash twist. Any of your feelings? Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, I think it's a good segue to talk about

Vision Pro. I mean, like, this is this is the product. I think they... None of us have used it yet. Yeah, yeah. They gave select 30 minute demos to specific, I don't want to say friendly journalists, but, you know,

they're very savvy about who they give access to these things. Marky's Brownlee did a good one on YouTube on that I saw that one So yeah So a little bit of the PR game That Apple plays

They'll give early access to folks Who they know are super favorable to Apple That doesn't mean they're going to get a glowing review But I think they know how to use Access to Early Products as a way to shape reviews Which I guess is all for I love in PR demos I'd like to talk about this more like From a strategic perspective

Because I think a lot of people came out criticizing the price point. Okay, like, who's going to send to an offer? And I want to make it clear, like, this is not, this is the first version of something which is game-changing. You're going to get probably maybe even a million people buying it, and version two is going to be cheaper and better. Version three is going to be cheaper and better.

And it's not Apple iterates. Apple Watch version one, it sucked. Version 8 now is amazing, right? You know what, I should say it's not a base comment. It's a basic comment. let me restate. The based comment would be this thing just killed

the Oculus whatever, Rift 7. What did you think? It didn't. I think it does. I think it kills it. No, it doesn't. Not this version.

I think there was a couple of issues, right? If you take a step back, you look at almost every scenario they showed it in, it's highly, you know, sort of single player mode. And I think one of the things that we've seen now is, you know, people maybe coming out of COVID or whatever it happens to be, return to the office, people want to be in multiplayer mode. And so every, you know, that was something that really jumped out at me. I think another, another thing that really was unique in that, you know, they have this mode where it shows your eyes. and so they're sort of contemplating you wearing it

and then being around people that aren't wearing it and I couldn't get my head around like what that use case would be Jacob. You're in your office. Yeah, so you're in your office and you're working and then I come up to you and you're staring at me. You're using it while cooking was like one example and you kind of have some transparency. Here's the ready player one dude. You know, okay, so the reason why this just killed

the entire metaverse and meta's done is because of apps. When you see this demo, what this is going to do, I don't think it, when I say it's, it just killed it. The reason I think it killed it is because if you're an app developer, this is going to be 95% of your focus. You're going to deprecate everything you're doing on the Oculus or whatever they're calling it.

What do they call it now? The meta quest. But Jason, I'm not sure I fully agree with you there. I think they're two different markets. they're going after. I think that that Facebook is definitely focusing on the gaming side of things a lot more than productivity and communication. Exactly.

I think Apple is going to be, you know, it's a different market. And the price point, guys, it has to get down to sub a thousand dollars. Of course. To go mass market.

But that's going to take five years. It'll take less. Well, I don't think so. I don't think we get from three and a thousand to. I think they'll have multiple models. Remember the iPhone and they came out with that. S.

What was it called? I see, that that happens when the basic, you end of, lifing, the set in design, you have excess capacity, you can produce stuff.

That's what happened here. I think it's three, three years minimum, probably five most likely. We can tip this. People pay, but, 1500 bucks for their iPhones now,

a thousand to 1500 bucks. They boiled that frog. It's been 16 years, Jason, like, at $1,000 dollars, this thing's flying off the shelves. At a thousand bucks,

ain't what it used to be. But I don't think they're going to go from 3,500 down to 1,000 in two or three years, in two cycles. Same, but I think, what do you think? Yeah, I think they'll get the price down.

I'll take that side. I think they can get the price down. By win. When does it go $9.99? Yeah, when you're going to $9.5. Yeah. When it gets under $1,000, $9.95. Let's just use like the iPhone curve.

So the iPhone really took off in that third generation of iPhone. And so I think, yeah, three years, three to four years. Yeah. That's what I would say between three and five. Yeah. It will, yeah. So I think we're all agreeing on a time frame here. Three to five years.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. So we have the time frame. But, but so Meta, now. Now the gauntins been thrown down, so they have to respond. What are they going to respond with? The meta's going to be like the Android to Apple in this space, right?

So it's going to be the cheaper. They're going to try and make it even cheaper, $500, $200, $200,000, improve the quality, et cetera, et cetera. And they're going to compute Apple. And when it's down to $9.95, the quest is going to be $4.95 for whatever it is similar today, which is, I think, 800. And they'll probably get it down. I don't think you're going to get, I don't think you're going to get everyone moving to Apple. Can I get a different question on the pricing? So, Jekal, you know, in the videos that we were just showing there, which,

show it using it as like an infinite desktop. That's the cost of like those studio displays, right? Those Apple studio displays are, they're about exactly, right? They're like three to five thousand bucks. Luxury product for them. Is that Mac Pro Tower and those luxury widescreens? I'm using one right now. That's exactly my point.

How much did you pay for that? Insanity. $5,000? I can't remember. No. It's at least five grand. No, no. The studio display is $2,000.

Okay. So just so you know, you could have bought the equivalent Dell monitor, and it would have been bigger and just as Chris for half the price, and then put a $1,000 Dell computer on the back of it and had a Mac and a Dell. Getting a Dell. So I think this use case that we're showing in the video here, which is like an infinite desktop, I think is the right way to think about it. I think this is an interesting one for, which could really take off quickly in a tradeoff with the studio display. And so that's, I find a little bit fascinating. I just also would love to have this when I'm working, yeah, in a hotel room on the road, in an Airbnb, on a plane to be able to pull up your entire setup and to see through it if the flight attendant goes by and you want to ask him for Coke Zero or something. You can still do it through your headset.

Yeah. And this is the minority report future I've always wanted. So I love this. and I hate VR, but I can see myself using this. I don't use VR. I like, I bought a couple of these things.

I don't like being trapped in there. But every developer on the planet is now looking at this going, you know what? I have an app in the app store. Every developer with an app in the app store is saying, oh,

what can I, what can I charge for this? So if your notion, if you're grammarily, if your weight room, whatever product you are or service, whatever game, com.com,

FitBod. If you're FitBod and one of our investments, you're looking at this going, you know what, I can charge 50 bucks a year for people wearing this while they work out, and I can work on their technique. And when they just look around the gym, it uses visual AI to create an inventory of all your equipment. And then after it creates an inventory of your equipment, it creates you a workout based on you having, you know, dumbbells there or kettlebells or whatever, and that it directs you to the proper kettlebell of the proper weight and says, pick this one up and it glows it red. You know, like, this is your personal trainer, you know, AI personal trainer in this goggles. Now, people in the gym would sound ridiculous wearing this,

but if it got you a better workout, it'd be worth it. So people glossed over this point that I'm going to make now in the Apple announcement. They showed the integrations with Zoom, Microsoft meetings, waitroom potentially as well. They basically created this, an SDK for video conferencing platforms to plug directly into this. And we're going to be the one of the first to do it. It's going to be amazing. And I think that I think this is like they've really thought through how do you, how do you put the, how do you use these vision glasses, what you're going to call it,

to do remote work. To me it looks like as sunny said, a single player mode product. It's like you're at home. It sits next to your bed or wherever it is and you use it when you buy yourself. But when you go out and play multi-player with your friends or you go to the office, you don't really need it. You know, I got to think like. you know, virtual white board services like Miro, you pop this up. You got three people in the office,

you know, in Palo Alto. And then you got two people, you know, in Ukraine and two people in Uruguay and one person in Australia. And you're all just going through the product roadmap and building stuff in real time. I could see a remote team all deciding to wear these 10 hours a day and build together and be on the same, what do they call those Kanban boards? Is that the right term? Canban, yeah. Canban. Yeah, Canban.

You know, like a visual workflow. And then you have summer AI in the background. Well, you know, and that people could put on a track and say, hey, we, like, when I worked in an office, we had a Sonos and people would put tracks on the Sonos. It was kind of a fun way to share music with each other. Some people would put their noise canceling headphones on and not participate in it. It was like a fun thing to do on a Friday. But you can imagine people like walking up to the canvance. band board, picking an item, a story, and then walking away with it and put it on their task,

and then me being able to walk over to their cube or whatever it is and watch them working in real-time writing code. And like, there's just 10 desktops in a space. And I walk around, like the plant manager at a factory, and I walk up to the designer's desk. I see them working. This would be a way to navigate the big tension between remote workers and the management. management is scared that you're working on two different jobs and they can't see you. Workers are like, trust us, we're going to do some side projects probably, but yeah, during the day, but seriously, trust us.

And then imagine you're, you know, during these four-hour blocks, we're having two four-hour blocks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, I could walk around and see everybody working and what they're working on and watch them work. It's kind of cool. And, you know, it doesn't have to be creep or anything. You can do the same thing. You walk over to my desk. and if you walk over, it just chimes me that you're there. You know,

you know, it's kind of like the, you know, Zuckerberg or, you know, walks around the design team. Hey, what are you working on?

Just a casual meet and greet. You can just set it for maybe, hey, every afternoon for three hours we're going to do a co-working session together. And you just have a virtual co-working session. What do you guys think? I think it's great.

And I'm looking forward to that world. I think this is a much needed product. I'm excited by it. Because I work from home. So, like, I am, I am in single player mode all the time.

This is, a lot of people do, by the way, like I think it's a big enough market. All right, Vinnie, you got to go. Thanks for coming on.

Congrats on your work on weightroom. com. Go check it out. Check out the weight room. All right. Thanks, let's rip through these. Sunny,

a couple more demos for me. Yeah, I do. We'll save some as well because, you know, let me show you on this next one here. I saw you do a replet.

I saw you writing some code? Yeah, yeah, where you're always doing that. for some replic copilot code? No, no, no, that's all mine. I mean, I didn't use a co-pilot. I thought this was interesting.

So this is using ControlNet to take the QR codes, but make them artistic. So obviously, we've seen these a lot these days because people use them for menus and, you know, I actually, you know, I like the integration that Apple and everyone has done where you can just open up your camera. and do it. You don't need anything kind of special. But this idea of turning it into a, and I think on this one right here, you can pull this one up if you want, and you can just put it on your screen,

if you want to pull your phone up, and it'll open the link up. And so the idea that you can make a QR code artistic and having the AI do it, I thought was really, really bright and just could open up a lot of new possibilities of embedding more information inside a scene or inside an advertisement

and make it sort of native. And so all of these ones that I'm just scrolling through here can all trigger your iPhone or any, I guess, can be any phone. Wow, these are stunning. What a great idea. They're really, really awesome. This is all done with ControlNet.

ControlNet. Control net is a stable diffusion model, correct? Correct. Part of stable diffusion. Yeah. Um, it's, it's basically prompts for, you give it a reference image. Yes. Say, this is what I want to start with.

I believe that's the difference, right? Control. Yeah. Yeah, you give it your image and then your QR code and then it comes up with this, um, which is, you know, I, I was really blown away by these. And so anyways, I thought this was really, um, yeah. And maybe we can do some of these at the summit. And for stable, for people who understand what stable diffusion is, maybe you could

explain. the, when people say stable diffusion, it's a little bit of confusion because there's an open source project and a company. Maybe you could explain what that is architecturally on a business basis. Yeah, I'll just kind of go down the basics. Like so when we talk about open AI, their models are like, you know, GPTX, right? It's a one, two, three, four. That's how they name it. That's their naming convention.

That's their naming convention. And then they have a different one for Dali, which is their image generator. So stable diffusion has a model called stability that is their image generator. And so stable diffusion is the company and like that would be open AI. And they have a model called stability, stability AI that is their, that's their model that they use. Yeah. And so you can use this open source project to make your own, you can fork it and make your own versions and compete. against stable diffusion

a company or the startup company is called stability AI I guess sorry the company is called stability AI and their model is called stable diffusion right so this is super

confusion confusing so this for people who don't have the reference point here if you listen to this week and start which probably do WordPress.org it's an open source project a bunch of people

for free contribute to the code there's WordPress.com which is a for profit multi-billion dollar company run by Matt Mullenweg that provides hosting services and services around that open source project. So you could take stable diffusion,

you can make your own products and services out of it. You're well within your rights. There are some rights where you have to give back. But yeah, this is a great use of of stable diffusion. Yeah, crazy. All right, you got one more for me? Hit me with one more.

Yeah, the last one. Yeah, this is your replica. Yeah, so here, you know, I just wanted to bring this up because I think a lot of people are tuning in. And I think a lot of kudos here to Replit. And then a couple of projects here, specifically Langchain. And so what I wanted to show here is, one, Replit makes it quite easy to get into a development environment and build something. You don't have to configure anything on your machine anymore.

Everything's done in the cloud. It's like a hosted. It's a hosted IDE that also has access to a shell and everything. else it needs. And they make it easy to deploy. So what I did was, is I created my own chatbot here that sort of has three functions. It can do searches out in the internet. It can calculate things and it can run some Python code. And you can see here, it's only about 60 lines of code for this. And so it's really is incredible. And I can deploy it. And if I go here, I'll just refresh this. This is, you know, I've deployed it out to here. And so we can ask something. what is the weather in San Francisco today? And what you'll see is it'll just kind of go through the process and realize it needs to, and it's here, it's like had a thought, do I need to use a tool? Yes, that's current search.

And then so it inputs this into weather in San Francisco today, it gets that back. Obviously, I'm just showing you the innards here, but if I didn't have that, And it's using LLM chain. It's using Lange chain alongside a service that provides a search engine results API. So SERP API is a service. And so it allows the LLM to go out to the internet to get this information, get the summary, and then provide it back. So if we didn't, so it's three steps.

It first figures out it needs to use a tool. Then it looks for the weather. it gets that back from a search engine reply, then says, do I need to do anything else? No, it has the answer, and then it basically returns that back. And so what I wanted to show here is, you know, for folks that are not and have not been developing for a long time, the buried entry is quite low to build these bots.

And, you know, there's lots of tools. So the tools I used in that particular code that I showed you here were very simplistic, you know, Langchane tools for current search or, calculator in a Python runner. I really want to encourage folks to go and try it because between RepLit and between these open source projects, you can get going quite quickly and you can create something that's pretty remarkable that runs and you can even have it deployed out to the internet on a URL as you see here.

Yeah. Great. Awesome. Well done. All right. I think this is enough product. You should be inspired to go do more friends of the show. and yeah

I'm really excited about the Applevision Pro I'll buy the first one I think when it's combined with AI but this is going to be one of the nice things about it is it's going to land right as a lot of these AI development kits kind of hit some level of you know critical mass

and or fidelity let's say fidelity and so it being able to look at your refrigerator and identify everything and just tell you the inventory of your refrigerator as you open and close your eyes, I really think people are underestimating how great this would be. Just

literally, you're going to be able to put this on, open each cabinet, look at each shelf, move stuff around, and then look at each of the boxes, and it will make you a list of everything in your cupboards. Then you're going to be able to tell it as you're looking at stuff. There'll be an interface, a chat, GPT interface for

Uber Eats or Uber Grocery or Instacar. or good eggs, and you'll literally be looking at your pasta shelf and say, you know what, add some Borilla Capulini to the check list. It's a great use case. I hadn't thought about that, but I think it'll be an excellent use case. Imagine walking around your house, just looking at every single, you know, appliance. And then having a catalog every appliance, I'm always thinking about estate management now

because I have two houses and you start to think about these things. Yep. Just walking around, looking at everything, the back and the front of everything, getting every model and then telling you,

hey, you know, your sonos is at a date. This is a 70-year-old sonos. Here's the new ones. This is the cost difference. Would you like me to get you a quote for this? Right?

So you take something like Thumbtack, which we're investors in. And imagine Thumbtack. You just walk around your home and it's like, hey, you know, the handle's broken here. And you just speak out loud,

what's wrong? I think this deck needs to be sanded. I think this needs to happen. Just boom, goes out and gets your quotes. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

It being your assistant on the side, and this is where Siri could actually make an incredible recovery. Imagine Siri was able to do that, and they made a Siri connected to a chat GPT4 level. I take the other side. I think you'll just, I think you said it, right? The apps will do it, right? And so there'll be incredible apps that you'll load up. It doesn't even have to be native within, you know, sort of the operating system of the

headset. You'll just have an app that's there for inventory. app for what should I do, what can I eat. I think you'll have all these kind of use cases. That's pretty cool. Yeah. All right. Listen, amazing job.

Really appreciate you taking the time to come on again. And we'll see you all next time on this weekend startups. Bye bye.