This Week in Startups - Apple’s MGIE, Google’s Gemini Advanced, Microsoft’s Copilot and more! | E1897

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

This Week in Startups is brought to you by… Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal-breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. TWiST listeners can get $1,000 off for a limited time at http://www.vanta.com/twist Scalable Path. Want to speed up your product development without breaking the bank? Since 2010, Scalable Path has helped over 300 companies hire deeply vetted engineers in their time zone. Visit http://www.scalablepath.com/twist to get 20% off your first month. LinkedIn Ads. To redeem a $100 LinkedIn ad credit and launch your first campaign, go to http://www.linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups * Todays show: Sunny Madra joins Jason to demo Google’s rebranded Gemini Advanced (30:21), Apple’s MGIE (46:31), and to explore the significance of Microsoft’s Copilot (53:27), plus Lucite, AgentHub, Quilter and more! * Viewers! How are you enjoying the demos? What grades do you give these AI companies? Tell us what we got wrong and right and what demos you’d like to see on the podcast. Let us know by mentioning us on X.com. https://x.com/Sundeep https://x.com/Jason https://x.com/twistartups * See the full list of all AI demos from the show here: thisweekinstartups.com/AI * Timestamps: (0:00) Sunny Madra joins Jason (1:56) Super Bowl viewership numbers compared to YouTubers like Mr. Beast. (6:23) Sunny demos AgentHub. (10:34) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at http://www.vanta.com/twist (12:32) The secrets behind all these media and tech layoffs. (20:02) Scalable Path - Get 20% off your first month at http://www.scalablepath.com/twist (21:23) Sunny demos Lucite. (22:54) There is a need for AI that fact-checks other AI. (29:09) LinkedIn Ads -  Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at http://www.linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups (30:21) The rebranding of Google’s Bard to Gemini while Sunny attempts to demo Gemini Advanced. (40:15) Sunny demos Quilter. (46:31) Sunny demos Apple’s MGIE. (50:41) Answering who will win between Microsoft and OpenAI vs Apple and Meta. (53:27) The significance of Microsoft Copilot. * Links: Check out AgentHub: https://www.agenthub.dev/ Check out Lucite: https://www.lucite.app/home Check out Quilter: https://app.quilter.ai/ Check out Apple’s MGIE: https://github.com/apple/ml-mgie Check out Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app Check out Microsoft Copilot Commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaCVSUbYpVc * Follow Sunny X: https://twitter.com/sundeep⁠ Check out Definitive: https://www.definitive.io/ * Follow Jason: X: ⁠https://twitter.com/jason⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/jason⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis * Thank you to our partners: (10:34) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at http://www.vanta.com/twist (20:02) Scalable Path - Get 20% off your first month at http://www.scalablepath.com/twist (29:09) LinkedIn Ads -  Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at http://www.linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups * Check out the Launch Accelerator: https://launchaccelerator.co * Check out Founder University: https://www.founder.university * Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp * Great 2023 interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland * Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis * Follow TWiST: Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups * Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast

The question is, can chat GPT, OpenAI and Microsoft, that duopoly, can they beat Apple and meta, open source? Your answer? No. Wow. Wow. Stunning. Yep.

Snap. Snap. You snapped it. You called. You shoved all the chips in. You believe meta and Apple will beat the mighty Microsoft OpenAI doopoly. And look, we've seen this movie before. This week in startups is brought to you.

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go to LinkedIn.com slash this week in startups. All right, everybody, welcome to this week in startups. It's time for our AI roundtable where we do demos. Me and Sundeepe have been doing this and the crowd loves it. The audience has been going crazy for these AI demos. Every week, we try to find five demos. that y'all will be inspired by or intrigued by. And just to keep tabs on the absolutely blistering pace of AI innovation in our industry,

you can see all the demos at this week in startups.com slash AI. You can go there, see all the demos and just really catch up with what's been an incredible, I don't know, what is it, like we're 14, 15 months into this since JetGPT 3.5 was released and took the world by storm. Yeah. How you doing, Sonny? You got your Super Bowl. you got your Super Bowl behind you. You were very, very excited about the Super Bowl.

You know, there was a lot of opportunity and it all went out the door with that last play. Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, was this a good Super Bowl? I mean, I know you're a 49ers fan, but yeah. Putting that aside, was this a good Super Bowl? I mean, the amount of excitement around it with this Taylor Swift stuff was extraordinary. Yeah, that was probably a bit too much, but, you know, anything that goes into overtime, well, come from behind, overtime, both teams. have a shot, both teams score, but one scored a touchdown. That's about all you can ask for. So, yeah, up there.

I think it was the most watched event ever. Wow. You see that? Yeah, 135 million or something. I don't know what the number was. What's crazy is, like, an average Mr. Beast video gets more views, so that's how much our society has changed. Gets more views, but not live.

So I guess the question is, like, of people watching live. Yeah. How do you think about that? Um, it's just, you could look at the first 24 hours of a video and, you know, how different is that than watching it live? Probably not much different. Everybody's at the water cool or seeing it the next day. Cumulative videos also matter. You know, if you were to go on to YouTube, the top most viewed videos are like Baby Shark, Gangnam style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things that kids listen to over and over and over again. So I think Mr. Beast falls into this category. It's not taking anything away from them. It's repeatability. No, Mr. Beas doesn't fall into repeat it. You can't watch that video again. Oh, I think kids do watch them over and over again, yeah. Really?

Not like Baby Shark, where they listen to it, you know, every day or ten times in a row. But I do think that there's probably some repeatability there. I think young people like to go back to the archive and watch the previous episode. It's kind of like Sopranos, right? Like, I've watched the Sopranos from start to finish three times. Okay, okay. You know, I think it is rewatchable, but maybe not like an audio song. But either way, it's pretty.

amazing when you think about Mr. Beast releases a Super Bowl every week in terms of worship. Yeah, from that perspective. Yeah. And it's a, the duration is also interesting. You know, the duration of the Super Bowl is, you know, five hour, four hour experience, whatever. Yeah.

He's now got 237 million subscribers. Pretty amazing. And there's a bunch of these channels from India that are also in the top 10. T-series. Yeah, T-series is like a, like a recording label in India. Mm, got it. So it'd be like, uh, uh, what was it back? Vivo or

Sony records, Columbia records. And then SET India, 168 million subscribers. Wow. I don't know exactly what that is. I think that's because of the denominator, right?

You have just so many people in India. You've got a billion people. It's, you know, 25% of the population, 17% of the population. 237 million subscribers to Mr. B. So,

330 million people in the United States. So he's got roughly if half of those are U.S., he's got half the U.S. population may be subscribed. I wonder how many of the 237 million subscribers are active U.S. subscribers. That's really the statistic I would look at.

So he just released a video on Saturday. Let's take a quick look at that. And we can see how many views that one has for just a rough sense of, you know, how he stacks up. I mean, I think he gets like a hundred million. Yeah, in the first couple of days. He got 77 million from three days ago, right? And two weeks goes at $128 million. Wow, that's wild.

Yeah, so it's basically within a week. Yeah. He's got a Super Bowl. There's also, you know, one of the other things to, you know, when you're looking at these statistics and how they're recorded, you know, there are drive-by views. So, you know, if you were to discount people who watched 30 seconds in both cases, the Super Bowl and Mr. Beast, you know, you might get a lot of drive-bys on social networks like YouTube or certainly Twitter.

You know, I think maybe half the views we get on Twitter for all in or for these podcasts, you know, people might be dropping off in the first couple of minutes. And so do you really count those as views at what minute do you, you know, I mean, there are views technically, but, you know, are they viewers, so to speak, right? So duration of views matters and percentage complete. That's one thing he obsesses about is a percentage completion. Complete. Yeah.

All right, let's get into our AI demos here. Let's just do it. Yeah. We have some really, really cool stuff today. It's a lot different than some stuff that we've seen before. So I'm very excited. So let's start off with one that is called agenthub.dev. Agenthub.

Yeah. Got it. And so they have templates. And so they have them for different types of use cases. I'm going to do like a simple one just for demonstration sake, daily stock report generation. So I can say I want an agent that generates a daily stock report. So I'm just going to use their template. I'm going to zoom in here.

And what this does, it's like a, you know, like you can imagine, like a little bit of a workflow tool. And I'm just going to say every day I want to see Apple, Amazon, and Nvidia. Right. We do that. And over here we hit run. What it will do is it has a workflow here, which walks through, you know, what it does, including WebStraight scraping, including some batch workflows.

So it's like your standard flow chart, you know, flowchart making software here. If this, then do that. Exactly. And they have all those templates there. So you can look at the templates. But while this comes together, it's generating the files. You'll see, I will get a report. So I've got three files here.

And so I've got Apple. So if I were to, let me just download these three. And if I were to download them and look at Nvidia. And you'll see I got this little, oops, that one didn't come out correctly. So let's look at Apple. Oh, well, it bugged out on me. It bugged out. But here it did a script where it said the average price is this. So if it did do it successfully, it would have filled that in. Yeah. And it was working for me before. I want to give

them credit. So I don't know if I messed it up or something. But yeah, it was pulling the price on these things and it was incredible. So it's going out into the open web and doing a search, scraping that data, normalizing and putting into a report. Exactly. And they have a whole bunch of different templates in here. I just picked a simple one, but they have ones for automated sales emails and outbound email creator. So these kind of multi-step flows with agents, which I think is really, really cool. So this reminds me a little bit of Zapier or if this than that. Combined with what we used to call workflow software in the 90s in 2000s, Lotus Notes was an original piece of workflow software that I actually used to script. I wouldn't call it coding,

but it was scripting like this. Hey, go collect this information. and then send it to this person. So if you'd think about like paying an invoice, you would create workflow software. An invoice came in. You know, there's somebody, it's,

this is a, you know, office supplies invoice. It has to go to the person who requested the staplers. Then it has to go to their manager to approve. Then it has to go to the office person to approve. Then it has to go to the CFO accounts payable person.

You would just send that invoice around. So, you know, this is kind of stuff like that where you could build workflow. Very interesting. And this is where you can start to... We've seen a couple approaches to this already, right? Sunny, we had somebody who was looking at recreating a web browser.

Remember that one we had with the Chrome extension just a couple weeks ago? That would kind of blew our minds. Yep. You know, this is kind of the mind-blowing automation here. Oh, here we go. So the analysis, yeah. Yeah. So this is the analysis.

So basically you can read it out. So this is more than just giving you the stock price. The stock price of Amazon has before. to the last few weeks. On the last date, the stock closed at $172. and $34, showing a slight decrease in the previous day.

The volume of trading has also been relatively high, indicating active market participation. We have the historical trend. We see there was a spike in stock price on this date reaching $174. $0.45. However, there's a downward trend

after that with the stock closing. I mean, I don't know if you notice this, but there are automated stories in Apple stocks where they tell you, like, this is an automated story. Have you seen those? Yeah. And so, like, you know,

I go check my Uber stock my Robin Hood and it's like, it's kind of like this, where it's like a little synapsis of what happened in the market. I'm like, okay, well, this isn't providing me enough value. I would rather, you know, I can look at the stock and know that, but I could see this being valuable over time and this is going to get better and better. What you'd want to do is you'd want to customize it. Listen, a strong sales team can make all the difference for a B2 startup, but if you're going to hire sharks, you need to let them hunt and you can't slow them down with compliance hurdles like SOC2.

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Stop slowing your sales team down and use Vanta. Get $1,000 off at vanta.com slash twist. That's vanta.com slash twist for $1,000 off your sock, too. You have the J-Cal yes, chef. And if I worked for you and there's something you want on a daily, I would build something inside Agent Hub, and it would basically get you something every single day that you wanted to see.

could be an output from, yeah. I could see this working for like, hey, collect all of the reviews of our product. Let's say we were, you and I were running a CPG company. Yeah. Every day, go to Amazon, go to our Shopify store,

go to Target, tell us all the new reviews, give us how the reviews are trending and basically write a report, which we might have, you know, a $30, $40, $50 an hour employee doing previously. Yes.

Who is, you know, our review analysis. Now the review analysis. analysis could be scripted and automated without a developer, and then that person doesn't need to have a job, or they can move up the stack to doing more important work. So this is, this is an A for me. Yeah. It's an A. I mean, I just like the structure of it, too, where it's like drag and drop, trade interface, and yeah, I could see this eliminating a lot of repetitive work slash jobs. And I think that's what we're seeing in all these layoffs that are happening. I I did a tweet today about it.

I think these layoffs are really about three things. I'm talking about media and tech layoffs. Let me run this by you and see what you think. I think it's about three things. One, people had very high salaries during peak ZERP, right? There was a massive competition for employees

and a lot of people, I don't want to, I'm not, you know, trying to be cruel to anybody, but when there's a competitive market and you have unions maybe at the media companies fighting for people, as they should, maybe salaries got a little inflated. 10, 20, 30%.

Now that doesn't seem like a lot, but if you can lay off 10% of your workforce and then replace them with people who are 40% cheaper, or 50% cheaper, or they don't have the stock options, which we saw Evan Spiegel, I think, do at Snap. You know, he kind of got rid of top heavy people who had big stock packages.

I've heard that people who've gotten laid off from Google have been asked to reapply for their jobs with a fraction, you know, like a third less comp. Have you heard about this? Bomerang trend? Yeah.

So it's interesting that you use the word boomerang because another thing that I've heard layered on to that was there was an echelon of folks that were so highly compensated that in it certainly weren't the younger folks, but it was like the folks that were 20 years in mid, 20 years in like mid 40s and up that were at like really insane compensation levels of stock and salary. And what I'm finding is in some of. Some cases are being asked to come back, reapply, so that they can be reset. In other cases, they've created a lifestyle for themselves, and they can't do that because of,

you know, overhead. Low rate mortgages and overhead. And, you know, they got used to making, like, I mean, you know, Jay Kelly, you know, even in our art careers, it was insane to think about making a million to a million a half dollars a year. And this was pretty common in that kind of echelon. That strata of, I've been in the tech business for 25 years. I'm a Gen Xer.

You know, I did three job hops over 25 years or 20 years. I went from Google to Facebook to Uber. And each time I got a quarter million dollars more and I'm this elite person. And so then the second piece of this is I think people are looking at it saying, can I automate what this person does? And so here these tools, you know, I look at these tools and I always just squint a little bit and I'm like, okay, 10 exit. So here it did like a very basic analysis, highs and lows or whatever.

But if you asked it, hey, tell me about the contempt. Forget about even like programming it. But you could say to another LM, what question should I ask this? What would be common questions to ask about stocks? And it would say, oh, how does it compare to its competitors? Yes. How does this compare? And it could even come up with the questions to ask.

Yes. And then put them in the report. AI all the way down. Yes. So just like you get suggested searches, oh, you did a search for, I don't know, burritos. and then it said, well, here's burrito recipes. Here's burrito low-carb recipes, keto recipes.

Like, you didn't know to even ask, oh, is there such a thing as a keto burrito? And it's like, yeah, there is. Here it is. Boom. You know, burrito alternatives, whatever. So that's what I see with this is, okay, this replaces a $30 an hour person, right?

And if you ever want to do back of the envelope math as a leader in a startup, my trick is always 2,000 hours, right? The average person puts in 2,000 hours, generally accepted practice. So $30 an hour and plus. employees $60,000. You know, you add 20% to that. So it's $36 an hour, whatever, 36 times two. You can easily do the math, $72,000 a year, whatever. You start looking at that. I think this replaces probably like that level of employee. Yeah. Yeah. You know, now what's the next one it goes after? So you have the resetting, the automation, and the third piece is globalization and people finding people offshore who maybe really want work. And so those are my three things. And the best way to think about what it goes after is look at the templates.

Okay, let's see some templates here. YouTube video processor. Oh, SEO optimized article generator. These are exactly $30, $40 an hour jobs in my experience. And if you hire consultants, they tend to charge a double. I think you wanted one of these, a LinkedIn profile processor. Reads, right? You know, warm.

Oh, my Lord. Yes. LinkedIn warmed reader. Oh, this is incredible. Wow. I was just doing this one, right? Yeah. Oh, this is stuff.

So now we talked about this category, business process or outsourcing. Yeah. BPO. This is what happens in India. This is what happens in the Philippines. There's been an entire industry of doing this. Now, I think some of those people were doing their own scripts,

but now you're going to be able to do this yourself. So, you know, inbox categorizer, inbox summarizer, email order replyer. Man, this is next level. Yeah, it is, it is like, I mean, they're literally atomizing people's jobs, right? And so they're atomizing people's jobs. And so if you are the leader of a company and you want to do SEO and blog posts and social media and whatever, competitive analysis, like I could see doing competitive analysis here.

Like, let's say there was another podcast about, you know, I'm a food podcast and you're a food podcast and we're competing against 10 other chef podcasts. you could have this go out and summarize what the other chefs are doing, then have the AI ask, who are their guests, make me a list of their guests, you know, which of their videos are breaking out above average, and you can do competitive intelligence, competitive intelligence, boom, wow. I mean, if you are going into the job market today, this is a list of what you could avoid,

or this is a list of how you present yourself as the grim reaper. Yeah. I'm coming to your startup as the grim reaper. Oh, that mean, you know, the guy with the doors. mean with like knocking on doors okay knock on the door for competitive analysis knock on the door for whatever yeah what jobs are they coming for wow yeah i mean i give it an a too like but two is boom congratulations i really also i think interface matters here yeah i could see this interface like the top 50 percent of my team members are good at this kind of interface yeah and i that's one of the things i've

tried to work on in my team is just please learn how to use zapier please it'll make me happier if you learn how to use Zapier. Zapier. I love Zapier and I'm just constantly trying to get my team members to learn Zapier or basic, you know, Coda scripting, notion scripting. You've got some cool scripts that you told me, right? You that take your expenses from your credit card and put them into your Slack and all that. I mean, it's really basic, but like just, you know, people.

It's a game changer. Like if we're doing an approval process, I worked on getting credit cards for my team members that could be turned on and turned off, like, you know, those categories of cards. and then I like to have them sent into a Slack room with that person and with the operations person. So then everybody sees your expenses as they're coming in. If you forgot and you subscribe to something, you subscribe to the Wall Street Journal last year,

but somebody else has a Wall Street Journal and we don't need two and whatever, at least we see it and they can have a conversation about it, right? So transparency. Yeah, really interesting stuff. Okay, all right. Let's keep going. Well, start a strong start.

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Twist listeners get 20% off their first month. If you're ready to scale your dev team and your business, check out Scalablepath.com slash twist. Once again, that domain name, scalablepath.com slash twist, 20% off. So the next one, this is super interesting. Let's put it in a very similar category. So this is called ReSight.

exactly. I apologize to people. I apologize to people with jobs that we're saying are going away. So this one creates these four types of basic analysis. You can do a business overview, competitive overview, financial overview, or buyers list for stocks. And so basically you put it in here. It's lusite.com.

And I'm going to have to share just a different window because its output is like a PowerPoint presentation. And so now, so I did this. I have a competitive presentation here and I basically did Nvidia

and so I have this seven slide presentation that does Nvidia competitive landscape so it's like GPU based products

these are the folks gaming products data center and cloud and you know basically feels accurate yeah

I mean let's look at it these are GPU competitors AMD right Intel make sense

you know these these are gaming folks that are leveraging, you know, their ecosystem. And these are folks that compete, compete within data center. It feels right. Then a little bit of a breakdown in each company for each section, valuations, and then recent M&A transactions.

This is done by an AI. It took three minutes. Now, the question is how much of this is correct, how much of is hallucinating? And that really is kind of where I think the industry needs to get to is, there needs to be AI checking the facts of AI. is this true? And that's, I don't, I haven't seen that, but this would be a really good product,

would be an AI copilot that fact checks other co-pilots. I know this sounds stupid. That's very meta. It's very meta. But imagine there was a fact-checking, a copilot. So I'm using Microsoft copilot, and I say, give me the competitive analysis for Nvidia. And it gives it to me.

Now I say to my fact checker, please go into this report and check each of the facts and find me sources for it on the open web, etc. And tell me if there's things wrong. And so that would be interesting is to take that PDF, upload it to Claude or chat JP4, and say, can you tell me if any of this is factually incorrect? Do you think it would be able to do anything like that yet,

or we're not there yet? So I believe that the foundational models are capable of doing this. The challenge that they're running into is in order to fact check, they have to use third-party data systems. They haven't licensed. Ah, got it. Because, you know, in the training data, they don't have like the current stock price of...

They're pulling it from some article somebody wrote previously in the OpenCrawl index. It's not correct. Yes. And so in order to fact check it, they have to subscribe to like a Google Finance API or Bloomberg or, you know, someone with an API. And that's where we haven't really crossed the chasm yet. We've been talking about this where, you know, the closest is like perplexity who has some data

relationships, but like no one's really fully done it with like a real data provider. And I think the minute someone does that, we're going to really see a distinct jump in the capabilities. And I think everyone's been on the edge of it. But it feels like it's coming very soon. I think it's a great idea. Yeah, I would like to have a fact-checking API. So this is something in journalism or just in general, like, is this a true fact?

So this is a request for startups here. Is this true? Is this true? Is this true? It's a toolbar. It's a copilot. It's a system tray. And it is reading everything in real time like Grammally does.

Yeah. And it will tell us, it will just look at facts in the background and just try to independently determine if they're correct. And you could, I mean, spelling is one thing that, right, is this word spelled correctly is something grammarly is doing. Grammarly is also doing is this, you know, is the comma in the right place. So here, when we're looking at this NVIDIA financial snapshot, I would like it to know this is NVIDIA,

know this is finance data, so it says, what is this? Okay, this is NVIDIA's five-year historical chart. And it says, go find it, and then compare it to this. And that would be super interesting to me as a device. And then just highlight things.

It's something I've always wanted as a product or a service is a fact-checking. As a Service. And having a human plus AI do this would be really fascinating. Fact checking as a service. Hmm. Hmm. I wonder if that is like a good startup idea.

This one, I just shared both the sheet and the Google stock price. I got the stock, sorry, the Apple stock stock price. I just did the share there. So I got those things accurate, which were 721.28. It's at .3 and it got the market cap rate. And then if I go back to the financial. that's a little bit harder to do through these tools. And what is the name of this one?

Lusite. Dot app. Lusite, L-U-C-I-T-E dot app. Yeah. I'm going to give it a B. Okay. I think it's like really a great start. Yeah.

The fastest way to produce investment banking style materials. It's a great idea. Remember I was talking before about these kind of projects and, you know, the dollar amount of the employee it's replacing? now we've gotten to you know a $100,000 employee like an analyst at a bank who makes these slides and so...

I pulled this one up. Oh my God. This goes back to your previous point. McKinsey puts 3,000 staffers on review citing concerns over performance as the recently frothy consulting business slows. Yeah, I mean, if people don't read consulting reports and the consulting reports are just a

hodgepodge of web research, you might as I just run it chat GPT or Klon. Or you've got an example, right, from all the stuff you've ever made. So you've got a corpus. And then you can just let train an AI on that and say, go make things that look like this. You know, what's interesting about Lusite is that's what they did, right? They trained in and said, these are like the five different basic, you know, investment banking style presentations, make them for us.

Right. They had the templates and they made a verticalized tool to just focus on that. Yeah. Just like we have a company saga. that is doing just screenplays and storyboards. And I told them, I was like, you know, this whole AI wrapper thing is nonsense. You're building a verticalized app.

You're going to build so much on top of it that, you know, it'll be like going to Google and saying you could do a spreadsheet at Google. Like, you could use Google search to do a math equation, right? You can put a math equation in the search box. Or you could use Google to search for flights or whatever. But that doesn't mean you're not going to do Expedia, kayak or a Google sheet or Microsoft expel thing, like you can get some basic functionality done

with ChatGAPT4 or Claude. But if you verticalize this, man, they can really, really refine it and build features around it, like fact-checking, like collaboration tools, etc. So I love these verticalize. I mean, if the AI wrapper vertical, I think it's going to be very big.

I think it's going to be awesome. It's going to be huge. Yeah. I think so as well. Yeah. But that's where we're going. Okay. So I give this big.

I like it. Okay. I like it. It's very solid. I'm like B plus, you know, like, I was probably higher, but I like the idea you said, if there could be a way that it could verify that the data is correct. Because now the fear you have is, yeah, citations. I think that would be really good.

I mean, it's like really cool. It creates a deck, times money. It's a really nice. Yeah. All right. Good job. Blue side. B2B marketing is not an easy job.

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Jake, this is going to be a two-part demo. Oh, two-part. I like it. Well, our friends at Google released Gemini Ultra.

Explain what that is to the audience, because I saw this and I was a little confused about what's the difference between Gemini Ultra and Google Bard. And then I saw a bunch of people

were losing their shit that they got access to Ultra, Gemini Ultra, on like their Google app. Okay, so there's a few different things. Bard's been renamed to Gemini. Google.

Okay. FYI. Okay. Then Gemini Advance, which is, and this is where this gets a little bit wonky, gives you access to Gemini Ultra 1.0. Ultra 1.0 is their most advanced model, which is great. The issue that I have is I have a Gmail account that's tied to a Google Fi account. Yep.

I'm going to pull this up here, and this is like totally wild. it's crazy because there's no way to try it. So when I go here and I go Gemini Advance, which I want to try, and I go upgrade, I get this crazy message saying Google One's not available, although I'm a Google One customer. Huh. Because if you're a Google One customer through Google Fy, so I'm going to hand this one over to you, J.Cal. Okay. If you can go to Gemini.com and see if you can pull it up, then we can try a Gemini Ultra together

or a Gemini Advance, which is Gemini Ultra. Okay, so BARD is now Gemini. I got that alert on my Gmail account, but I don't see Ultra. You should be able to click beside the hamburger. There should be a little down arrow beside Gemini. Oh, it says upgrade. Gemini Advent. I click upgrade.

Takes me to Google One. Oh, here we go. $19. Yes. So you got to pay your $18. So I start my trial for Gemini events. Okay, so now they have a chat GPT4 competitor. Yes.

And, okay, so I subscribe. And let's see what happens here. And so I haven't been able to try. this one because this is my little bit gripe to Google. So I got to give it a really low grade because there's no way for me to subscribe and try it. So you've got to do this demo. Okay, here I am. How can I help you today? I'm in. There you go. All right. So what should I do as a search here? What would be, how would we test this? Well, we just did Nvidia competitors, right? Yeah. Make me a table with NVIDIA's top competitors and the most important information

about them. So I told it to make me a table. And we got a little spinning Gemini wheel. So we'll see if it even understands a table. Absolutely. And patterned our AMD. Yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah.

But like... Not great. How about... What's cool is like... Lusite did a better job. That's what's interesting. Yeah, Lusite did a better job. So this shows you how vertical apps

are doing better than just command line. What are some event spaces in Napa I can use for... a 200-person corporate retreat. You know, I met with a company that is doing like an AI for event planning, and I've been using event planning. So here it goes. It's going to Google Maps for some reason.

And let's see. It's giving me web pages. So this is like a Google search. No, that's not what I want. A terrible answer. Searching the web. Here are some results. Yeah.

Give me 10 great locations to host a corporate offsite for, 200 executives in Napa slash wine country. Put the slash wine country there to see if I confuse it. Let's see if it gives me 10. I mean, I'm giving it very explicit instructions here. I mean, so far, this is a total fail. Yeah. Well, one of the things that...

Literally wasting my time. I could have gone to the web. I mean, if I wanted to do Google search, I would have done it. Yeah. One of the things that it's meant to be really good at is multimodal. So maybe ask it a question where it's, you know, bringing back some images. or some ideas around something.

It did. It did do a map of some items. It didn't give me 10. It didn't give me a number list. These are not very good. Yeah. This is not a very good result. It's doing what I intended it to do. It just didn't give me the fidelity of results I wanted. Like, if I were to ask an event producer for this information, I would have gotten a much better result. Like a human could do this much better. This is.

Maybe try your burrito example and ask it for, yeah, like, you know, something like that. Or sushi restaurants. What are some great sushi restaurants? with omocasa in the Bay Area yeah these are like things you would search Google for right

and you wanted to give you the answer you don't want to deal with all the links and everything else right so no so I mean this is okay it's hitting Google Maps again yeah not great which restaurants have Peking duck

in the Bay Area let's see if we got like a Peking I'm very specific I'm getting a dish right maybe they'll show me photos of the dish. Yeah. Same nonsense. I would have been better just doing a Google search. What are the pop peaking duck dishes in the world at four-star restaurants? Show me five to ten photos. So again, multimodos trying to get this. I mean, yeah, we got to, I think we're going to have to sit Sundar down again.

Remember I told him he's going to have to bring people in and do these searches? He fixed the name. He fixed the name. Yeah. I mean, fixing the name is not as important as fixing the answers. I mean, this is also slow. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, this isn't good. Yep. I mean, maybe. Hakasana. I did get Hakisan. I do think Hakisan is one of the top peaking duck places in the world. Mot 32. Okay. This is more promising. Okay, I take it back. If you had asked me the best peaking duck in the world, I would have said Mot 32 and I would have said Hakasan, both known for having, like, very elite peeking duck. King Duck, and it did give me the picture, so this is slightly better. I will say, like, generally speaking, continue to be disappointed, and they need to do more work on this. I'll give Gemini, like, a B. Nah, I'll give it a C plus. Oh, okay. Yeah, I just don't feel like it understands what I'm asking here, and I'm asking it very Google-centric versions of this, and it feels like they're just not, not getting it right enough. It's like, it's like close. Maybe it's a B-minus. I'm going to go B-minus. And unfortunately, I'm not, not, I can't grade it because I can't try it.

and they got to fix that too. I mean, I feel like Google is, needs to lay off another 10,000 people. I mean, I don't mean to be cruel, but I just feel like it's still bloated and like not elite teams building elite product. You know, I feel like Facebook and chat GPT, Microsoft, Tesla, Twitter, like more elite teams. And I just don't feel like this, like Google has eliteness going on right now. It's not elite enough. For my expectation of Google, this.

where Sergei, Samurai Surge's got to get in here and just... High expectations right now, yeah, for sure. My expectations of Google are real... I think that's why I'm giving it lower grades is because I've got higher expectations of Google than anybody else. Well, I want to try it, so I'll reserve to come back next week. So if someone is listening or watching and you're in Google, please help me subscribe. I want to pay you $20 to try it out.

I mean, this is the thing. You know what? They have so much fruffed at Google. I know how this happens. Like, they're like, oh, okay. we have this. And I brought this up with Sundar one time where I was like, listen, I did. I said, you know, you treat Google domains as second class citizens when we're paying you for Google Docs, right? Like, if I've got my company at Google Docs. And then I try to use Google Fi. It's like, no, you have to have a Gmail.

I use your personal Gmail. It's like, you're taking your best customers and you're making us jump through goddamn hoops. So now if I want to use Google Fi at my org, you're making me tell everybody to use their personal. personal ones and then I don't have control over it as the, you know, but I'm paying you for this. Like, why is there a separation between the, and I understand why, there's a separation between the namespaces. But like, this is the same thing that happened with Nest. You know, like, you want to use Google Docs with Nest. You can't do, or whatever, Google Home. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the interoperability. And I mean, maybe this is just what happens when companies get too big and there's too many product lines and croft and stuff like that, but they have to simplify

this and make it easier. It should be so easy. Pretty straightforward. I'm surprised that that's happening, right? And, you know, yeah, the error message is fake. Please someone get in touch. We'll try it out. We'll do another demo.

Another demo. We'll give you another shot. I mean, but, yeah, Gemini advanced. I'm just not feeling it yet. What was your grade again? I'm going to give it officially a B minus. Okay, officially a B minus. Officially a B minus.

And you're officially. I can't grade it. I can't really give it a grade. But I want to. And I'll, you know, like everything else, I play with it before. I just couldn't do it. Let's keep our round table going here. Do you got another one for us?

Yeah, I do. And they should give startups a lot of hope. Yeah. Big companies with their unlimited resources trip over themselves. And we saw two companies, Lusite and Agent Hub, are much better products than the Mighty Googles, Gemini. So just to give those two companies their flowers, like Google can't get out of their way to compete with you yet. Now, they might figure it out eventually and just like take some giant

leap forward, but keep being scrappy startups. You can beat Google. You can beat Chad Chbett. You can beat Microsoft. You can beat, you know, Apple. You can beat all the meta. You can beat them all just by being scrappier and focusing on the customer experience. Everything is changing. Just do it. Two more quick ones. Okay. Two more quick ones. Here we go. Lightning Red. So the next one. Really cool. I actually just saw this earlier today on Twitter. Friend Eric Vichria. I think. he funded it over at Benchmark. And basically, it does PCB layout using AI. And so we're not going to do a layout here, but, you know, there's try instant

example. And it gives you some very popular things. I can say, oh, I want to do this Arduino. You've seen these things, right? I'm sure you've had some hardware. And just explain what it is. Yeah, what an Arduino is. So Arduino is like an open source design to run Android.

Right. It's like an open source computer that you can like build. off of the standard and it's got things like USBC port and exactly you know whatever HDMI and memory

so it's like a computer on a stick Arduino is like a computer on a stick that hackers would use yes but here you're taking an Arduino and well this is so when you're creating this is you know again we're going verticalized again

when you're creating the PCB that's what the chip and all the surrounding components go on the USB this uses AI to do the layout of the PCB. And this is a four-layer PCB that has, you know, these rules put in. And it did a bunch of different candidates, which is this candidate can be produced by the most fabs.

This candidate has the fewest layers. This one has the shortest number of traces. And all these things are factors in, you know, when you're making hardware, who, like, who's capable of making it, more layers are more expensive? Shorter traces means, you know, everything is closer together. Wow. Like, to see this being done by AI is wicked. Yeah.

And so this is where the flywheel gets out of control because you have AI building the hardware that could fuel and enable future AI models. Now, it's doing this with Arduino's, not Nvidia chips or not, you know, whatever. And the PCB, not the chips. It's this is the PCB, the board that they go on, right? Right. But, you know, it will eventually be AI all the way down. And so at some point, this AI will be pointed at chip manufacturing and PCBs and everything else.

And it's just going to, it's going to have, I think the first phase will be able to have insights that will inspire humans, you know, and save them time in making the stuff. But then at some point, it's going to have breakthroughs, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, insights are different than breakthroughs or efficiency is different than insights, is different than breakthroughs. So this, to me, is an efficiency player, right? like the person who's making these

is going to be much more efficient at their job. Correct. And it could be breakthroughs because the AI can think of things in those different ways as well so you can have it, efficiency plus breakthrough.

You can grow on both dimensions. Yeah. But do you think it's actually doing more than efficiency and insights and is at the breakthrough level yet? I mean, we'd have to ask them or... We'd have to pull someone in.

So I think you should have these folks on because, you know, look, I'm not an expert in PCB design. Or have them just tweet at us. Just tweet out the TWA startups account when we put the clip up. And just let's start these conversations on X. So X.com slash Sundip slash Jason slash TWI startups.

If this is your company or we mention your company, when we put the video clip up or you can take the clip and put it up on your handle, follow up with us. And let's start the discussion on X to just keep these demos moving. What do we get right? What do we get wrong? And where are you headed with us? And my question is, you know, has this thing had an insight or breakthroughs?

Not just efficiency, right? And so when you think about it, like I was talking about saga, this, you know, screenplay writing software, it's giving people insights and breakthroughs, right? You put in your screenplay or you say, hey, this is the TV show I want to make. It's going to be nine episodes. I want this character arc. And I just gave it like, well, I want to do the Sopranos plus Blade Runner. You know, I want to have like a mafia story and I want it to be a mafia story in a cyberpunk mafia story.

seems pretty interesting to me, like a crime family in the Blade Runner setting, right? So just, it would be pretty dope, right? Yeah. Like, who's Tony Soprano in Blade Runner, you know,

and what are they doing? And what's their crimes? And, you know, what are they trafficking in, right? Are they doing gambling? My version of that is modern Seinfelds. Like, when I, you just want to entertain myself, I just have one of these just write a modern Seinfeld episode.

And so for a writer who's in there, like, it's going to give you insights that, you know, I was talking to the founder of Saga and he's like, you know, I was like, how do people get these insights currently? And it's like, you know, they're in the shower, they watch movies, they read books, they go on long walks, you know, and that's why, you know, a great screenplay might take a human two or three years. But if you're sitting here using, you know, some verticalized AI, maybe you get a really cool insight with the AI helping you, oh yeah, you know, we should make an

anti-hero. Oh, no, what if it was a female lead? Oh, no. What if it was, you know, this person double-crossed them. You know, and it might have taken the creative Sopranos to have the relationship with the mother and Tony Soprano and the psychiatrist. Like, those were incredible breakthroughs that he had. I don't know how long it took to David Chase, like to come up with those. But, you know, maybe, you know, he could have had seven other ideas for Sopranos episodes, right? That would be really interesting. I would love to watch more Sopranos episodes.

And if they could do it all in AI and give me. Oh, man. Oh, man. to get one more season of Sopranos, or just to fill in one episode per season, just give the AI, you know, I don't know how many seasons that lasted,

but it was under 10, I think. Just give it each season and just say, can you give me 10 more minutes per episode of awesomeness? And I could watch it with some things I didn't remember, but 10 more minutes of backstory,

ooh, give me like, it would just be so, like, and I would fill my bucket. I would fill my bucket. I would be, really happy.

And that's what I think, like, you know, we're on the cusp up here. It's like, yeah. So anyway, I give this a, I give this a B-plus, just for efficiency. I'm not even going inside. I think it's a hard problem. I think it's a very hard problem.

Yeah, I'm a neophyte in this. AI being used. Okay. All right. Last one. Last one. So Apple this week released a model designed for modifying images.

All right. We had talked about that this was coming. Yes. And so the reason, yes. Yeah, exactly. And so the reason I want to show this is we can imagine, because we have a bet going on, what we're going to get in the next iPhone. And so basically, you know, I took a picture and I won't run it here. And I just did a simple, but one removed the background. And what this model does is two interesting things. It removed the background. And it also kind of gives the expressive instruction around what was required there. So we've seen things like this before, but Apple coming out and putting this out there means it's a little teaser. It's a new way to do. a teaser to the community. Breadcrumbs. Yes.

Of what's coming our way. Follow the breadcrumbs. So Apple is doing Maggie. Maggie is their image processing open source AI. You can do things like their model. If they're building this model and they're doing it, that means you're going to be able to go into Apple photos on iPhone 16, I would predict and say, hey, for this photo,

can you remove the background? can you brighten the faces and can you yeah whatever you know make it crispier or something or change give me some ideas of better lighting and that would be built into the iPhone and they'll probably have an AI chip or you know Maggie will be built into your phone so you don't have to go up to the cloud to do this yeah oh that's what you believe you believe this will run on a phone yeah and that's part of our bet for whatever it is June 1st or July 1st yeah exactly right this week in startups.com slash bets. You can look up our bets.

But yeah, so this is going to be down to the wire. We know that it's coming. Just explain to the audience what it means to have a language model slash language model plus chip set that can do this kind of stuff on a phone. What would that mean, you know, for consumers? What does that unlock? Why is it important? Explain it to people.

Well, I think we're going to get a phone. I think you can get like sort of unlimited memes. And so I think you were trying, you were asking about. this in one of our chats the other day. And so I just did this right now. So give the man a mustache. Yeah. How about give him a mustache? Give him a goatee that looks realistic. That's not funny, you know, like an actual, because he gave me like a character mustache, but give it a Ted Lasso mustache. That would be funny. Give the man a Ted Lasso mustache. This would be interesting if it knows what Ted Lasso is.

Here it goes. And it's running. What is this running on your MacBook or in the cloud? No, this is someone just posted this on hugging face. Exactly. It's a hugging face running this. And it's taking, looks like about 30 seconds to do it. And it gave me not a Ted Lasso.

That is not a Ted Lasso. So more work to do. But that's what's cool because they're putting it out there because they're going to get this feedback. And that's a different thing from Apple. And it shows what generative AI is about. You can't do everything inside a box. You've got to be open.

You've got to embrace open source. You've got to get feedback from the developers. Open source is going to win. Open source is going to win. You heard it here first. I think that what this means is like stable diffusion at 10 billion or whatever. I don't know what valuation they had. But these models are going to be open source.

And if they're open source and remember open eye when closed AI and they're not giving the code or the weights, right? The only person who has the code in the weights is Microsoft because they put 10 billion in. Because of their deal, correct. Because they're dear. So Microsoft has. the source code, I think, and the weights for Mopen AI. That's the reports. Now,

meta and Apple, two of the Magnificent Seven, are putting all of this out open source. Google is not open sourcing. Their Gemini Bard stuff, right? That's proprietary. Amazon doesn't have a large language

model. They might be participating with other folks. And Tesla's model for self-driving is obviously proprietary. I don't think that that's open source. It can't be. So the question is, does Microsoft versus chat GPT beat? Can chat GPT, open AI

on Microsoft, that doopoly? Can they beat Apple and meta, open source? Your answer? No. Wow. Wow. stunning. Yep. Snap. Snap. You snapped it. You called. You shut through the chips in. You believe

meta and Apple will be. the mighty Microsoft OpenAI duopoly. And look, we've seen this movie before. Operating systems. Microsoft, you know, Sun, all that seeds to Linux, right?

From what's powering almost everything out there, some type of Linux base, right? Saw it in databases. We saw it in, you know, programming languages. We've seen this movie through our entire history. It's very hard to have a proprietary platform model

beat an open source one. Now, for desktop, Microsoft Windows and Apple's. Apple's is built off of Open source. Open source. It's like a Unix base. Yeah, BSD base, I believe. But Android's open source, right?

And it seems to me... Android dominates the world in terms of phone. Yes. You know, Apple gets all the profit from iOS being closed, but I think that was sort of... You can't win it every time. Yeah.

You can't expect it to win every time. But in this case, I think I have to agree with you. Because knowing what I know about startups. If you're a startup, yeah, you're going to use the best product available, which is chat GPT4 right now. But long term, you're not going to want to be tied to their whims.

And they could change the rules on you. And so you're going to probably, which would be like, you know, like, listen, Oracle's great. Oracle databases run like some very sophisticated stuff. But I watched as startups used Hadoop, whatever, my SQL, you know, there's a whole. series of open source database stuff. And so, you know, to see a, oh, there you go, put it some glasses on them. What kind of glasses are those?

I don't know. I would just like to put sunglasses on you. Yeah, maybe RayBans. So, you know, I think Apple doing this is, if you're behind, you go open source. Yeah. That's what I've always said. If you were trying to catch up, you want to create chaos and you go open source. So I think Apple and meta are behind, so they go open source.

And they also have locked in with their brands. So it makes total sense. What did you think? I didn't see the Microsoft. co-pilot ad. There was a co-pilot ad? How was it? It basically was a direct competitor to, oh my God, that is not sun. Rayban sunglasses.

Oh, you know, you have sun. Yeah. You don't have sun glasses. We're going to give me sun-eyes. Because you should be able to create them on your phone. Laser eyes. Yeah. So what, it's going directly after what? What is Microsoft Copilot going directly after? Chad, GPT.

It's a full experience that you couldn't really differentiate at all. So now I'm going to have to make a decision. Am I paying for Microsoft co-pilot? Am I paying for Claude, Po, or ChatGPT, or Gemini? Because now I'm paying for all of them. Correct, correct.

That's where we're going. Isn't it so weird that co-pilot, Microsoft Co-Pilot, is built off of ChatGPT4. Let me talk. Yeah. Oh, here we go. Yeah. I didn't see. Let me tell you.

We could keep talking, but like I just playing it here. Here we go. Or build something. Yeah. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Uh, they say I'm too old to learn something new. Yeah, too young to change the world. Yeah, so they're really going after the consumer use case, right?

That's what we're seeing here. They want to go after the consumer. This is all, you know, generate images. Yep, here we go. Yeah, right my code for my 3D game. Wow. They're literally just basically. Quiz me in organic chemistry.

So when you see this, did they pull the rug out from chat GPT by buying. into it and saying we have the rights to it, we're going to make a consumer product and then try to beat them with the consumer because it's the same product with a different wrapper. And Microsoft has massive distribution and chat GPT doesn't. I think that's the case. And, you know, the only thing we don't know is, you know, the deal that they've struck, is it for every model going forward? Or is it just for the existing models?

Is it just for the next one? I think what's going to be really interesting in that relationship, especially after seeing that ad, is how they coexist. Because before what was being sort of outlined was Microsoft was going to do enterprise stuff and opening eye would go after startups plus the consumer. Now it's, you know. Game on. Game on. And is Microsoft charging for co-pilot? Is it like 20 bucks a month, right?

Heads up against chat GPT or are they going to just make it free and just chat GPT? It's been free so far. I don't know if they have a plan, but so far it's been free. So if you're willing to go get a Microsoft login and do that, it's been free. So you don't have to use GPT4. Yeah, that's wild.

Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting, like as a chess board, because remember this also, when Sam Altman was ousted as CEO for 15 minutes, they were all going to go work at Microsoft. So Satya was going to hire them all, which means Satya,

maybe Satya's hiring them all. Or maybe he's just hiring people. and then he builds up his team and then when he gets the team to a certain level it doesn't matter so maybe like he did this interim deal I put 10 billion into it but I know this is a trillion dollar opportunity

so I just get the code base I get the weights and then I just replicate it and build something better. Yeah, very fascinating. Very fascinating. Yeah. Well, and then also you just think about bundling

right? Microsoft bundled the browser and we've seen this movie before so if they bundle co-pilot and it's just like it's everywhere because I got the little co-pilot on my desktop, my Windows desktop, and then Apple, if it's just built into the operating system,

I don't know if Apple's going to just make Siri their co-pilot. And then where's Amazon and all this with Alexa? Why can't Amazon get Alexa? I mean, shouldn't they just rebuild Alexa with a language model and just start over? There was an article a little bit recently they let go of a huge chunk of the Alexa team, right?

Yeah. And I think that's what they must be doing, right? They must be preparing. Yeah. Perfect example of being too early, right? Siri and Alexa were too early and didn't work, and they worked in, like, constrained environments. Did you get a Vision Pro yet? Apple Vision Pro yet?

No, you know, I listened to you. I'm picking my up. So I did the same thing, and I went to the Apple store to buy it, which they would let me buy it, but they wouldn't let me try it. Huh. And I said, well, can I just try it? And it's kind of like, I was a little bit like... Perchurbed? Yeah, I'm like, do you want me spend $3,400?

And they're like, it was on the Saturday, you know, it came out on the Friday. So they have them available because they're expensive. And I was like, I'm willing to do it. And, you know, I built a company. I think we should do it. I'm getting mine. Just go buy it. If you want, I'll pay for yours.

So, oh, yeah, sure. I said, thank you for you. I said, thank you for you doing this. And I don't pay you for this. You're getting a lot out of it with your, but I get more out of it, I think. So I will pay for yours. Submitted an invoice to us. And we will pay for yours, but you've got to use it.

And I want to incorporate Mondays will be AI and Vision Pro demos going forward. Vision Pro, okay. Four AIs, one Vision Pro. How about that? Is that a good ratio? Four to one, three to two. Okay. But I just want to, because I think it's the real deal.

After hearing Friedberg, who's like a, you know, he's a bit of a weirdo, you know, I mean that in a good way, you know, like, Freiburg's got a good sense for, like, weird shit, I think. And, you had a good use case, like, for work. Yeah. See, I'm going with Freeberg. on this one. I think Freeberg knows what he's talking about. I think you and I doing the demos for both of these emerging platforms every Monday

makes us even more. People tell me that Mondays are essential listening for this week and startups. And if we do this, maybe, I mean, you're going to wind up being the co-host here because it might be we have to do Vision Pro one day and AI one day and you're going to get nothing done like me. You just be doing podcasts constantly.

I mean, yeah, we'll pick it up, buy it. Send us the bill. I'll pay for it. And then we don't have to have to have the cognitive. I was ready to buy it. I just wanted to demo it. I was like, let me try it out.

I know, I just don't want that. Don't be a, you know, I get it. I get what you're saying, but, you know, it's kind of like, we got to make the jump here. It's clear that something's going on with this. Okay. There's something going on with it. And I think it's a desktop replacement. That's what my position has always been is this is a desktop educational replacement.

I think, you know, and then let's see if we can do an episode inside of it. Let's see, actually, here's what we do. This is what we should attempt for next week. Yeah. we do the AI demos inside of the Vision Pro and we release it. So like idiots, we wear the, we wear the goggles on Zoom on our desktops, but we do the demos. I don't know if there's a FaceTime feature or Zoom inside of it.

It renders your face and all that. Yeah, but could we do the demos and record the demos inside of our Vision Pros and then stitch it together? So like the demos we did today, you and I looking. Yeah. They would be on like a screen or something. something, right? It probably looked terrible for the audience, but it'd be interesting.

We'll give it a try. We'll have to do some prep. Okay. We'll have to do some prep. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.