This Week in Startups - Bonus episode! Tár review with Lon Harris

Episode Date: December 25, 2022

Christmas surprise! Check out Jason and Molly's FULL review of Tár, spoilers and all, with Lon Harris! (0:00) Tár review from Thursday (21:53) Bonus Tár review! Reviewing the critics, SPOILER REVIEW, and more! FOLLOW Lon: https://twitter.com/lons FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis FOLLOW Molly: https://twitter.com/mollywood Subscribe to our YouTube to watch all full episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkkhmBWfS7pILYIk0izkc3A?sub_confirmation=1

Okay, this is a quick introduction. We're going to give you the complete tar episode. We were so passionate. We're supposed to do 10 minutes on tar, Molly. We did an hour. We did an hour. This is not a movie show. It's appropriate because the movie's two hours and 40 minutes.

So, I mean, if you just even want to scratch the surface, you got to. All right. So this is just a bonus. This is a bonus episode. We're going to label this episode this week in streaming. But we're going to give you the entire tar breakdown. So you got 20 minutes last week on Thursday. We're going to play the 20 minutes.

from that. So if you heard it already, you can fast forward and then the last 40 minutes of the discussion, just a little stocking stuff for you. Let us know what you think about an hour on the film, TAR. And if you see it, let us know what you think. Molly, Merry Christmas to you and your family. Merry Christmas. I hope you're having a great one right now. Enjoy everybody. I hope you have a great time with your families. As long as you're in this mood, I feel like it's a good time to hit you with A.O. Scott. Let's talk about TAR. As long as you're all fired up. Now, we made a promise after our viral kerfuffle vis-a-vis the A-O Scott Gate. Top 10 movies of the year list.

A-O. Scott Gate. We made a vow that we would watch these 10 films. I'm going to go ahead and predict we're going to watch two, maybe three, but we have all watched the second. I'm definitely going to get to. I'm going to try. I'm going to get to seven. I'm in two. I've already seen four.

I need an assistant to watch these movies for me. I think I'm already four out of ten down. So I'm doing great. Neptune Frost, tar, flux gourmet, and then there, oh, nope. You must have seen no. You must have seen no. Even one more. All right.

Well, this is your job and you're 40% through. It's not our job. It's not my job. You're one of the great commentators on film. It's true. It's your job. It's your calling, if you will. We watched Neptune Frost.

Last week we talked about Neptune Frost. We all liked it. So much better. Two of you loved it. I liked it. Like we were a solid. We were the literal critic to consumer split. Jason wrote a very eloquent review and surprised us all.

Thank God. By now. Much better review than Neo Scots. Just in terms of pros and insights. We keep doing. Bullet dodge there. This week, we're back for another review. We all watched number six on the list, which is Todd Fields, Tar, Stalin, starring Kate Blanchett,

Naomi Merlin, and Nina Haas. The film got a critic score of 90. percent on Rotten Tomatoes and an audience score of 72 percent. It is about the life, the moment in the life of Lydia Tar, who is a renowned composer at the height of her career before the tables turn as her past catches up with her and her life begins to spiral. Okay. That's the setup.

And now we'll talk about like, okay, do we want a little like go around the horn? What did we all think? That sounds wise. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I'll go last. okay

I'll go last I'll go I loved it I think this is it is clearly one of the one of the best movies of the one of the most expansive

there is a movie it really reminds me of that people not enough people have seen let me know if you guys have seen it Kenneth Lonnergan the guy who did

you can count on me he's the writer director it's called Margaret Anna Pacquin is in it's fun but I think from 2011

and it is it's this very expansive long movie like three hour drama It's just a character study of this young girl played by Anna Pack, but it's stuff like a dramatic thing happens to her during the movie. So it's not like nothing happens.

Yeah. But it is really not about what happens so much as it is about the extremely complex emotions and aftermath that it has and how it impacts her life. And it's almost like this coming of age kind of thing. But it's so universal. It's really about all sorts of just like the what it is to be alive at this moment in your life and how. have things happen to you. And that's what Tar kind of reminded me of. Like, it is about, there are things happening to Cape Blanchett. It has a narrative thread. But I think it's, it's so, it's about everything. It's really about power and control and influence and regret and

guilt and how all of these things sort of interact and play around with each other in, you know, an adult, an adult's life. It's very much about her. It is all her. Like the whole thing. So I will say, so you are like, give it a number. Oh, are we doing one to ten? Hold scores. Hold scores. Oh, hold scores. Let's do our, let's do our qualitative feelings on it.

Right. Then we'll go to specific. Let's do this. We do our qualitative feelings on it. We're on the horn. Then we'll go into specific scenes, specific moments. That will be a spoiler territory. Right.

Good call. And then we'll give scores at the end to keep the audience engaged. Yeah. Sounds like a good plan here. Okay. So Molly, Your general feelings about the film. Pre-spoiler.

I mean, I will say that in-it-I movies are too long, just generally, especially in the age of streaming. Like, if you're sitting, like, I was, you know, my son is not home. It was, I was like, okay, I'm just going to sit down and watch this movie. Now, you will, knowing me as you do, appreciate that this is colored by the fact that all during this one-hour-and-59-minute movie. So it's whatever it is. or no more than 159 minutes. It's over two hours. It's a solid.

Two hours and 40 minutes. 2.30. Yeah. 238 is what I kept saying because I kept. And then all throughout this two hours and 40 minutes, my brother was texting me because he got to watch the new John Ryan series or Jack Ryan series. So he's watching that, which is my favorite genre. And I'm watching two hours and 40 minutes of Kate Blanchett. It is like, that is all you're getting by God.

You have some good tertiary characters and she's amazing. but if you are either in or not in on Kate Blanchett and her performance here. I was in and there are things about it. The more I read about it after it ended, the more intrigued I was, I found it to be a bit of a, it was too long. It was like a bit of a slog. I didn't hate it. I really like it and I like what it was doing.

I just don't, I don't have that kind of attention. I'm adult ADHD over here. No problem. That's honest. That's honest. films, you know, different films appeal to different people. I have a very important announcement to me. Many of you have known that I have told everybody quite clearly.

And this whole A.O. Scott Gate, the kerfuffle, the Donnybrook, this entire Donnybrook, this craziness has all started with him leaving Maverick, the best film of the year, not even in his top 10. Him putting it, I believe, as number six on his list. Right? It's number six. Can I please confirm? Yeah, it's number six.

Okay. This proves A.O. Scott's incompetence. You wouldn't have seen this if not for him. No, I would have seen it. I heard the buzz. Oh, you would not have. This is clearly, and I haven't seen the other eight films yet, but for him to put Neptune Frost as number two.

And this is number six shows the complete absolute incompetence of AOL Scott. Oh God. Because this is definitely the last time we're doing this segment. Because this film, I'm allowed to have my opinion.

I'm allowed to have my opinion about it. He can have his opinion about mine. What I'm embracing here is what I'm learning through this process is that top 10 lists and film criticism is the greatest greatest honeypot in the world.

I'm leaning into it. This is tied with Top Gun Maverick for the best picture of the year. This film is going to become not only this year's number one film

across the board or tied with Maverick in my mind. Not only will this be number one or two on everybody's list, etc. When they make the top ten films of this decade, this will be on that list. and it will be high on that list.

This film will age and its importance at this moment in time will grow. Now let me explain. And we're not doing spoilers right now. The film is about a problematic Kate Blanchett as a female,

lesbian, abusive, horrible, but brilliant conductor. Let's leave it at that. That's not going to spoil the film for you. This is all revealed in the first couple minutes.

It's, you know, it's in the trailer. She puts on a performance. that will be the best performance of her career and one of the best performances in the last 20 years in any film. She's extraordinary in it.

The filmmaking is unbelievable. There are memorable scenes in this. There are monologues. There are two sentences. There are moments that we will talk about and debate at dinner parties all year long. And that's one of my criteria. May not be A.O. Scots.

I don't understand his criteria. It's obviously flawed. But my criteria is, if you were to watch this film as a group, how long would it stay with you? How many hours after the film would you want to talk about it? Just like the White Lotus season two, which last night at dinner, I had dinner with a bunch of besties, you know, eight people, everybody had seen season two of White Lotus. They couldn't stop talking about it for the first hour of dinner. Specific scenes, specific moments, what happened? This film is 100x that to White Lotus.

in terms of its importance and relevance. It will be dinner party discussions for hours afterwards. And what I love most about this film is that it challenges the viewer. It is not straightforward. Even the critics, the mighty critics who lured their lists upon us and tell us who is number one and who is number two. They can't make sense of this film. It's so hilarious to me. It is so...

It proves the point that this film is so important that you have one set of critics saying that this is the absolute pinnacle of the discussion about an artist creating great art versus the behavior and the human being of the artist, whether it's Bach or it's, you know, Kevin Spacey, pick a horrible human being who, you know, Harvey Weinstein. the artist versus the art. The power of social media. The generational difference between Gen Z, Gen X, and Boomers is all on display here. The power dynamics, identity politics, everything is absolutely meditated on here, but they don't spoonfeed it to you. You must take it in and interpret it for yourself. and that is the brilliance of the film TAR, and that is why it is number one tied currently with Maverick.

I will need to see both films again to make my ultimate decision. This is the goddamn film of the year, I believe, and Cape Blanche wins the best actress, and A.O. Scott is absolutely drunk asleep at the wheel for making it number six behind Neptune Frost. Neptune Frost is number 60. It's like we're fine. number one. That's it. I'm done. I'm very excited about this film.

And then we're not fine. And then we're fine. And then we're fine. All over again. Anyway, anybody want to react to my feelings and then we'll get it to spoilers. This is for the audience. I think it's interesting. I think there obviously everything you're saying is, is present. I mean, there's a big scene that's become very sort of famous where she's at, she's. Oh, go to spoiler territory. Here we go. Spoiler territory. Like, I feel like a lot of the discussion of the film does sort of come back to like, she's, like, Hansel culture, and it's about this person who's this very prominent high status person and this scandal.

And that it, all of that is in the film. But to me, it's so much more about the internal psychology. It's really, we're in Lydia Tar's brain throughout the movie. And we're sort of seeing the impact on her of losing her grip and like realizing what kind of a person she's been. And this experience of watching it slipped through her fingers in the panic and the feeling. year. And to me, that's what it's, it's more about that than necessarily like a treatise on what to do about this cancel culture. Like, I feel like there's, there's a reductive, and I'm not saying you're doing this. I'm saying like in the culture more widely, I feel like there's been kind of an attempt to like put this movie in a box and like, oh, that's the problematic. Cancel culture, woke is a movie. It is not that. Molly, I know much more than that. I agree. I think it's very reductive to put in that. I'm 100%. And I find it sort of disappointed. I mean, it just, it just, it's.

It's really interesting because, like, as a, by the way, let's move into spoiler territory, because we won't really be able to... You can fast forward to the end. I think that one of the brilliant things about this movie is to use that narrative device among many as this sort of the most obvious lens to get where we're going with Lydia and her kind of coming apart. And it is kind of delightfully predictable that then the US media would be like, this is all about cancel, turn social media when first of all social media hardly figures right it briefly figures as sort of a plot device to keep us moving toward her decompensation and it is in some ways the easiest direction to go in when you have someone with this much power like someone with this much power no matter who they are is always going to have probably some abuse like they're always going to engage because power corrupt

they're going to engage in some kind of abuse. So it's just like, of course, that's how you get there. Which isn't even to take away from that. It's so well set up and it's so taught how you get there. And it is a little bit unexpected. And so that makes it even more impactful. But yeah, like this, I'm all about the this lady cracking from the way that power not only corrupts, but destroys. There's a, that's what I found so fascinating.

There's a moment where towards the end, where she's getting a massage. she's got shoulder pain and she goes to get a massage and they line up all the masseuses and they're like pick the masseuse you want from out of the lineup in some Asian country that is not fully explained maybe it's Vietnam yeah I couldn't figure it out I yeah I thought I somewhere Southeast Asia somewhere but I don't think they put a fine point a Manila maybe or Indonesia Malaysia somewhere like that so and she's she's picking it from this line and and there's and it's all subtle. It's all, you kind of read into it. It's not put

a fine point on it, but it's all Blanche's performance where she has this road of recognition of, this is what I've been doing to people my whole life. I've been lining them up, picking the one I want. I move people around like pawns. They're not even really human to me. And it's such a complicated idea to capture

visually, like that, that's what movies are about. If you can take something abstract that we've all felt or that we've all thought about and find a purely visual cinematic way with just an actor and a scenario. What a great point. Visuals to bring it together.

That's what movie making is sort of all about on the most fundamental level. And the number five. Right. Well, the number five figures in symbolically. The number five figures in because that's the movement that she's like, the whole movie is building up to this performance, this one. And you know, like the foreboding is there from the first scenes with her, the interview where they say you're going to give this historic performance.

You're going to conduct this, you know, Mahler's fifth, the number five in the series in one month. And you pretty much know immediately that it's all going to unravel over the course of that month. And then there is, there's like this mysticism to that moment where the girl with the number five is the one who like looks up at her. Right. I didn't notice that. Yeah. In the lineup and let's be clear, this lineup is kind of saying, I believe that this is a house of ill repute. I don't know. I think it's the visual, like, Todd Field shoots it and lines it up visually in a way that immediately suggests brothel.

That's the image that we have. I don't know if he's necessarily saying it's because, again, we're refracting everything through Kate Blanchett's mind. And so that's what she's thinking about. But maybe this is just a massage parlor. I don't think it could get any indication. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I was going to say as well, if you think about the numerical like ordering and ranking, that's what she's been doing with the, with the, with the. orchestra as well. It's about who's in what chair, who gets what solo, who's in what seat. So that's always been her MO. She's always putting them in order. And they're even arranged like that. Like they're arranged in a semi-circle. You're the next favorite. Very good, Ma. So much was happening. I mean, despite everything I said about how I thought, I personally thought it was too long. And I personally think if you're not engaged in Kate Blanchett's performance, you're not going to

be able to get involved in this movie because it's so her. But it in two-sitting movie. It's a two-sitting movie if you, I mean, maybe. I did it. I loved it. You did? Jesus, how much time do you have in your life? No, no, I watch it two sittings because I was watching it with my partner. Oh, you watch it over the course of. I thought you watched it twice in a row. I was like, what the hell? But you guys.

I think the nice little 10 minute beat in the middle. Okay, very good. But I don't like being separate sitting. Okay, Molly, finish your point. I have a point to me. The level of like care. every single detail, every single shot, every single self-referential moment,

every single like realization that's unspooled is like taught. I mean, it's like a knife, which is crazy because I guess you have to unspool so tightly. And then it ends up at two hours and 40 minutes, which I know I should let go, but like, my God. Take 10 minutes off that for the trailers, very, for the credits,

very interesting stylistic choice to put the credits at The start. At the start. At the start. Film aficionados will have a lot to say about that. It's not super important to most audiences. But I want to point out, there was a New Yorker review. Who wrote the New Yorker review?

It's Richard Brody. Richard Brody. Richard Brody. Okay, Boomer, time to retire. He reduces this film. Richard Brody. I've now found a critic worse than A.O. Scott. Richard Brody.

Please clip this. You cannot mention both of them. He reduces this film to being. that it's championing in some way like this right wing anti-Meetoo movement or anti-identity politics is his point. Which is such a shame.

This is the OK boomer moment for him when he needs to realize he's done as a film critic. He missed the point of the film. This point of the film is about narcissistic personality disorder and the descent into madness and the enablers of narcissists. I am not a professional film critic and I got this.

What's his kid's name again? It's Richard Brody. How old is Richard Brody? He's got to be over 65 or 70. It's an okay boomer moni. A legend in the in the criticism game. He's been doing it for forever. Please, man.

Forever is probably the keyword. Did you read his review? I read his review. I'm not a huge Richard Brody fan either. I agree with you. I mean, it's doing the thing that I was basically saying before, which is I think there is a, it's easy to sort of put this movie in the box of like social commentary movie about cancel culture, but it's not about that's a very limited narrow view of what I think Todd Field is really doing here.

Okay. I was going to say about Richard. Hold on. Let me just finish my point on this and then I'm going to hand it up to you because I have a lot to say. But this is about narcissistic personality disorder. This is about somebody who has an egot, right? They've won everything. They've crafted this person, this image of themselves.

And they have a blind spot. they don't realize they have narcissistic personally disorder. That's the whole point of that disease. And you look at everybody around you as objects, as tools, to be manipulated like pieces on a chessboard. Now, some of the chess pieces are more important than others to her. Maybe her daughter, maybe her partner, maybe the latest fling in her orchestra. All of these different pieces, though, are chess pieces. In her game, to build a brand that is tar.

And this film is more analogous. It is not about cancel culture. It is not about identity profits. It's about what you see in a film like the conversation, taxi driver, Macbeth, full metal jack, falling down, the shining. It's about the descent into madness of a person who is so obsessed with themselves and whatever they're building in the world. That is what this film is about. And it is going to go down in the In the pantheon of films in Descent Into Madness, when people make a list about characters losing it, taxi driver full metal jacket.

I don't know what else you put in there, Lon, because you're better at this than I am. Conversation shining. This will be in that 10 list of dissents into madness performances. And that is what the film is ultimately about. And when I write my review, it's going to be better pros,

but I'm workshopping it here. Go ahead, Lon. And then Molly will do ratings. I was going to say, Richard Brody was on it. Best scenes. Best scenes. Yeah, he was on everybody. crap list earlier this year because he was the guy that wildly seems to have misunderstood Nathan

Fielders, the rehearsal. I don't know if you guys watched that Nathan Fielder show. Yes. But he was writing reviews every week like, this experiment isn't scientifically valid. You're not going to figure out what the town of rehearsed. But he was like criticizing it if it was as if it's the Milgram experiment. Seriously. He's offered at face value. And it's like, no, Nathan Fieldser's a comedian, sir. This is a comedy show. This isn't the Stanford Milgram experiment, right? We're not actually doing science. This is to make you giggle like Borat.

I don't know how you could miss that. It's actually pretty funny because through that lens, you know, the idea that he would do both of these as such a Captain literal exploration is pretty interesting. Because then there's a whole other element to this film that I'm so glad that Lon brought up in our chat before because I stayed up way too late after watching it, reading about this back half of the movie. And the idea, again, spoiler territory. The idea that when she's kind of chasing the new cellist and she falls and smashes her face open,

that that might be the moment where the rest of the movie is not actually real anymore. I didn't hear that. That's a great premise. One critic on Slate has written this and then it's sort of built and took on a life of its own on the internet. The idea being that, and it is true, the third act takes larger sort of leaps from. from reality. Things start to spiral and get a little bit more dreamlike, surreal. They're mentioning that scene where she's kind of lost and there's this big dog barking at her and it's almost shot like a horror film. There is also, there are moments where a ghost

appears. There's a character in the film who has taken her own life, and possibly because of her treatment by Lydia Tar, and at several scenes of the movie, if you look closely in the background, there appears to be a person. Oh my God, I didn't see that. She's freaking there. Look at the other ones. Okay, so there's that one and then there's another one. There are a few.

The next one. Or even just like scenes where there's a person, a redhead that we only see from behind watching her. And it could be just a regular passerby, but we know that this dead girl had red hair. So this is another one where she's sort of like in the. Right. background and these are these nights where she keeps waking up and hearing these weird noises see right there are already kind of creepy they're already these like super natural vibes when she goes for the jog and they're she hears screaming

and she goes and chases it we forgot that one when she does go to the basement following her latest uh love interest or potential love interest and it's like in a basement where she doesn't actually live and you're like well where did she go is she traveling to an abandoned building i also fairly subscribe to the idea that this is happening in like a supernatural world. I think again, it's like we're so in her head that this could be his way of, right, into madness that this is shining, her feelings of guilt, her feelings of life slipping out of control, a break from reality. But I do, you can read it as no, she's actually either in a dream or in a supernatural.

I don't buy that. And there, I don't buy that. Like, there are also those people who, who, have you read the really, really upsetting theory that like all of the Harry Potter stories are actually this. poor kid in a mental institution is horrible. It's sort of a big now. So there's always somebody who will. But I think 100% like the levels of her psychosis are clearly on display in that second half of the movie.

But also just like super side note many times in the very beginning and then throughout we see the cello, the cellist Olga, I think her name is. And she's messaging. First of all, what is that app where she can like message over a real time? Oh yeah. They kind of made their own social app. It's live streaming with her chat on top of it. She's messaging with someone about Lydia. Right.

Yes. Who clearly seems to know her. Like there's that weird exchange in the beginning. It's like, so you still love her. And then it's like maybe. And that is never explained. That's just happening. And you're like, wait, did this woman, is she a plant?

Did she already know Lydia? Like, is she messaging with dead Krista? This is such a great observation. I can. tell you what's happening. This is part of the dissent into madness. What's happening, Molly, and I'm glad you brought this up. This is a very astute point again. There are multiple times in the films where, you know, Kate Blanchett's characters on her private jet from her benefactors. And you have to wonder, all these benefactors are obsessed with her out of some virtue signaling

because they love, you know, her as a conductor and they love the concept of her as a conductor. They're patrons. They're patrons who know of her discretions and are enabling it. That's what we find out later in the movie. They're so cynical, these patrons, that they want her to be something to them, you know, in terms of what she represents. Because the film makes this point, there's never been a female conductor. She's a lesbian female conductor. They want to build her up, knowing she's flawed, knowing that she's got all these, you know, problematic issues. And that's a whole other side note of the enabling of narcissists, but you're right, there's a group of people who are on the other side of it who are using Kate Blanchette.

There are a group of people who are using her to an end, like her assistant who wants to be the second conductor, who they kind of allude to. I don't know if I'm reading into this, that maybe they had a relationship. Yeah, I thought so, yeah. Because she's perturbed when she's talking to another young potential liaison. And then there's her wife or partner that she has a daughter with who is also an enabler. She's an enabler who's like, when she finds out that she's got another girlfriend or another problem or another Me Too problem or another problematic problem.

She's like, why? She's not upset that she's having affairs. She's upset. She didn't come to her so they could brainstorm it and figure out how to get past it. Like they did with their relationship. Right. When she became the female conductor and she was with the first, whatever they call the first chair or something.

Yeah, the first chair. This is a very key point. There were a group of people who were realizing, Hey Blanchett is problematic, her character tar. And they're recording her covertly. they're building up their book of evidence, and then they're also trying to use her. And so that is the disgusting reality

that we all have to face, or that the movie tries to put in our face. There are people trying to use her, and she's using them, and it's all gross and horrible. It's also notable that a lot of the people in the film, not Lydia Tar specifically, but a lot of the other people around her

are supposed to be modeled on real life people. So Todd Field is making, like, the one that's really known, Mark Strong. Mark Strong is playing a guy named Elliot Kaplan, who's a... Oh, he's great. Desmond banker who desperately wants to be a composer. There's a real guy named Gil Kaplan, who... That's basically his story. He's a very wealthy banker who sort of bought his way into the

conducting world, and he's conducted Mahler's Second Symphony, but it's not very well regarded by people in the world of conducting. So if you are a classical music aficionado, So you write away clock to Mark Strong is supposed to be that. Oh, God, he even looks just like him. This poor guy. And, well, this gentleman passed away in 2016. So he doesn't have to see Marksson. He didn't see this film.

But there's also examples of conductors who've married their violinists from their orchestras. Like a lot of the elements of this movie, Todd Field must be a classical music fan. He's sort of lifted from. It's, I mean, that's the other. That is the other. note too, which is that it's so interesting that this is such a generational study, because I think any Gen Z reviewer, like, if you put a Gen Z review next to the Richard Brody review, they're going to be completely different reviews, right? There are like totally different storylines depending on what age

you are and what mindset you bring to this movie. However, the composer universe, the, the, like, density of the immersion into the classical music and specifically like composer reference universe. Yeah. That's a big wall for somebody to get past in those first few minutes.

It's brilliant. Like it's pitch perfect. No pun intended. But like to open a movie with a New Yorker author playing himself interviewing her that is so freaking referencing that I was like,

okay, this must be a version of satire, but it's also so dense that I could imagine a Gen Z like just turning it on. Trying to like

write stuff like that just blows me away. Like you have to make it sound authentic. Like what, you have to come up with a conversation that a New Yorker expert

and the world's greatest conductor would have on a stage in front of an audience. Yeah, but you know what, Lawn, in fairness, in fairness, the screenplay writer

got early access to chat GPT. So, Hello. Thank you. Call back to this week's big show. Oh, man.

Okay. This is what a human is so okay. Have you seen his other films, by the way? Have you guys seen in the bed? I want to get to that. I want to get to that. First, hold on.

I got to take this around the horn again. Because this film is so amazing. Your favorite scene is going to be my first question. Then we're going to move. Sorry to take over the moderation here, but I'm very passionate now. I want to know everybody's favorite scene. And then I'm going to go around again for,

your second favorite scene. We're doing two rounds of favorite scene. Then we'll talk about the controversial ending and what actually happened at the end. Yeah. Molly, sorry to be part of the toxic masculinity that my daughter accuses me of. But ladies first, what is your favorite scene? If I may, if I may say ladies first, I don't know, that gets me canceled. I think it's fine. I think that's okay. I think it's fine. Ladies first go. Um, I, I, I suspect we are going to have a same favorite scene occurring. Okay. Because my literal favorite scene that I will watch a million times over and try to replicate constantly in my whole life is when she threatens a little girl at her daughter's school.

In German. Explain what happens. She realizes. And this is, there's so much happening here that's also really interesting because she's like clearly on the road a lot. She's kind of absent. The other mom is doing the bulk of the. the parenting. But she is the one who gets the daughter to admit that she's being bullied at school.

Like they play this game in the car because the other mom is like she won't say anything. I don't know why she's coming home with these bruises on her shins. And then Lydia, through this kind of special connection that she has with this little girl gets her to admit it. By the time they get to school, she's figured out that not only is her kid getting bullied, but she's getting bullied by Johanna. And she approaches Johanna on the playground, says, I'm. her father. And if you come for her again,

she does this all in perfect German. And it's like, if I hear about this again, I will get you. And if you tell an adult about this, they will not believe you because I'm an adult. It is so sinister. But believe me when I say that I will get you.

It's so sinister. And it's exactly how she wields power everywhere else around her. Yes. Except in this case, she's making it 100% explicit. She also self-identifies as the girl. girl's father, which is a fascinating

twist. That was amazing. That's her first thing. It's like, I'm her father. Yes. So therefore, this violence is in some way justified or more real to you, six-year-old. I am the violent father. I mean, there's so many layers to that of like calling herself the girl's father.

There's a lot. You're a favorite scene. So many. There is a, there is a scene late in it that I feel like is just a perfect expression of what this movie is because it's very dark but it's also very funny and it gives you a lot of insight into who this person is. The whole movie, she's been sort of irritated by her neighbors. She's got issues with the neighbors and at one point they come over and they ask her, please stop playing music. We're showing the apartment and we don't want to show the apartment

while you're playing music, not realizing that it's a world-class musician who people we'll pay $1,000 to listen to. So she starts, she takes out an accordion and plays an original song called Apartment for Sale. It's in the credits. Credited in T.K. Play it shit. She wrote that song. It's such a great moment.

It's incredible. So great. Really funny beat, I love. It's a little strange because she is playing an accordion and she's playing it out of tune and yelling and screaming. I thought, if I was a director, I would have had her play something perfect

and stunning and recognizing. recognizable. Like a box. She's a wreck by that point. No, I know. That shows her psychotic break. Yes.

Early in the movie, she would have worried, how is this going to sound? At that point, you know, she gets just, I just thought it would have been better to be like, I'm going to help you sell your apartment by playing the most perfect thing ever.

So the person was like, oh my God, this is delightful. But I agree. That was a polarizing moment. Another, there's so many tiny moments in here. There are two tiny moments that came up for me.

There's one where she's having lunch. and she is such a control freak that she's trying to get her new love interest the cellist she has a cellist I believe it's a cellist who

and these two go together this chelis love interest that shows up in the middle of the film she tells her to get the cucumber salad and she's like no I want more bread

I want more carbs I want whatever and the veal the veal and Kate Blanchette is like losing her mind that she can't dictate to who's she this person she just met. She then loses her mind because she wants to see her performance

and the before, she wants to get the album of her performance and she's like, no, it's on YouTube. And then she has to go watch it on YouTube and it's also breaking her heart says breaking her brain that she has to watch a YouTube video to see this person's performance. And then the moment where she's she, the same thing, I'll go to the second and then you guys can add it if you want.

But I think we're good at scenes. There's this moment amazing moment where this cellist, She wants to replace the best cellist in the orchestra. This is a very polarizing moment. She loses her orchestra because she's like, you know what? We should just have a contest or whatever. She says they're going to audition for the solo in this cello piece rather than just the usually the first cellist would do the solo.

Very polarizing. She then sandbags it because they, you may not know this, but this was in one of Malcolm Gladwell's books, Blink, I believe. When they do these auditions, they do them behind a curtain. and so other information can't bias you. The person's attractiveness, their height, their gender, whatever. Hair color, style. But she sees just out of the corner of her eye, like the shoes,

and she knows the sound of the woman's shoes because she ran into her in the bathroom or something, and she sandbags it and picks her because she has a love interest in her. But then the person happens to be so good that everybody, the owner who actually loves her anyway. So it just shows like these crazy power dynamics just all at once, and I thought those were like really interesting. Should we go to the ending of the film? Sure.

Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. So then, okay, so she has her whole downfall, which may or may not be a psychotic break, and then ends up, you know, goes to sort of a publicist firm and they're like, we're going to do a reset for you. And then we see her in a, you know, a stunning fall from Grace in this unidentified Southeast Asian country. And she is, she has been engaged for a gig and she's taking it really seriously. And we see her studying the music and, and like, leading, you know, doing rehearsals with the orchestra and saying like, what does this mean?

For you really doing her like maestro thing. And then she comes out. She's doing her getting ready thing. She's like the same level of nerves and kind of OCD behaviors that she has throughout the film. puts her headset on, begins conducting. And you realize that she is conducting a live monster hunter orchestra. And all these, she's surrounded by bits of cosplay. surrounded by people in these monsters.

This is like, Monster Hunter is a video game. It's a video game franchise. So it's a video game franchise. It's a concert of music. Oh, it is actually something that exists in the real world. Oh, yeah. They're absolutely very real.

Oh, I thought they just did that as like, here's a random cosplay. These things happen. Yeah. If you know it well, the pan where they're showing you the costumes is actually the reveal because if fans catch that joke, if they recognize everybody's dressed like Monster Hunter right away, for the rest of us, we need to wait until we see the name on the screen

in the background. But yes, Monster Runner is a real video game franchise. This is like the generational, this is the extra generational genius of this movie. Yes. Because it is a real franchise. These things are an actual, like, cultural phenomenon. Oh, these concerts. Yeah. And so

if you get the joke, there's a universe where you sit through the two hours and 40 minutes for, and it's all an elaborate setup for one giant joke. Like a laugh out loud joke. Like there's so much happening. What I love about this ending.

It's crazy. And I know it's controversial. But what I love about the ending is it shows, like, remember they dropped that she got an EGOT in the beginning? She got an Emmy. She got a Tony. She got an Oscar or whatever. I think that this might be like there's a movie.

She did one of these things for money and that she actually is the composer of the music. Therefore, even when she falls from grace and is totally canceled by the establishment, that this video game, crazy people, halfway around the world, will still, she can secure the bag from them. And the cynical, her cynical PR team is like, here's our plan to bring you back. You know, as if she's Kevin Spacey or Louis C.K. or something. And they're like, yeah, we'll start with a video game halfway around the world and try to rebuild your thing. And you can still be employable. And the way Louis C.K. can still do shows, right?

Like, he's still employable despite what happened to him. He's kind of making. He's nominated for Grammys now. And, Lon, what do you think, though, about the take, the reviewer interpretation that this was actually her getting back to the thing like where she started, where the true love of the music, because she's putting the same level of effort in that she would put into her muller and that maybe actually this is like, this is a reset in all kinds of ways. It's her rebirth because she's like, actually, I just love this and I don't need all of the private jet stuff.

Yeah, I think it's an interesting choice to not, like a lot of filmmakers and a lot of movies doing this kind of a story, I think would leave you at the low point. She's lost everything, where to go from here. You know, you can even picture how you would end that version of the movie. A close up on Cape Blanchett's face is she, like it's reached. She's reached the absolute rock bottom. The end of the shining when he's frozen. Yeah, exactly.

You do that shot, which would have come, which they did put in the film. When she knocks the banker off the podium and it's mine, I thought that was the end of the film. Right. Remember that she charges out? Yes. Didn't you think that was the end? Like she just, that she's so crazy.

She showed up and pushed him off that. Kubrick shot a final scene that is not in the film that never. It was, it was briefly, like he cut it like the day before the film hit theaters. You're in a hospital and you're tracking down the hospital corridor and you hear something, thumping against the wall,

but you don't know what it is. And then you pass by, Shelly Duvall. She's in one of the beds and a doctor is there. and he's like, Danny's going to be fine. It's just a little, you know, like a concussion or whatever, it's giving her. You're both going to be okay.

But then you keep panning and you see the thumping is Danny has a ball and he's throwing it against the wall and catching it like Jack Nicholson was doing earlier. So now he's got the madness. Right. No idea why Kubrick decided not to cut that, but he decided to cut that and he ends it with the close in on the Jack Nicholson photo. I would have been a better ending, wouldn't it have? It would have been.

I really like that. But back to this. So this could either be her, this could either be her lowest point or it could be her redemption art because she also, I just realized, not only is she putting all the reviewers pointed out, she's putting all this care into it. She's rediscovering her love for the music, but she also rediscovered her moral compass as evidenced by the fact that the scene with the goldfish full of women or the fish bowl makes her throw up in the street instead of be like, oh, just take number five, which is what she would have done if she were still in Berlin. I think that's what he's doing. I think it rather than ending it on the low point, he gives us this little epilogue. It is a little bit of a, like, there's potential for that she might, this might not be the end of her life. This might be the start of a new phase.

And she, we know that she has reinvented herself at least once before when she goes home and talks to her brother. Her name is not Lydia Tar. She made that up. That's a character she's been playing. She was Linda something. And so I think that the idea. is, well, maybe this Lydia Tar phase was just a phase and we're going to move into

the next version of who she is. Even more challenging for the audience. I didn't get that, that this was a redemption thing at the end. This is why this movie so fascinating. I think it's ambiguous. There's so much ambiguity here. And do I want her to be redeemed? So then that hits that whole theme of like, should you ever be able to come back from being a

narcissistic, horrible, abusing you know, evil person in the world and then under what circumstance, we haven't figured that out as a society. Exactly. Like, this movie is so, it's like, it's like the, is it Jasper Johns who painted the American flag and revealed it

and it was just a painting of the flag and people were like, what are you saying with this? What do you mean by this? What do you? It just looks like an old flag. And he's like, it's the flag. It's whatever you want it to be.

And people were like, it's a statement about this. It's anti-war. It's da-da-da. And he was like, it's just the flag. That's like how this movie is. This movie is just like, I've got it all. Let's rate the film. You decide.

And that's what I think is so disappointing about the Brody is like he's trying to be like the film is saying this and I think it's it's looking at this complicated nuance thing through the lens of this very complicated person and and it's just asking questions you know it's just asking questions it's the Jordan Peters Center movies I don't think it's saying here's the answer I thought this was more I say this is weird like people want to make it left or right leaning I thought it was trying to go right down the middle and just say here's the problem we are faced with as a society These are the issues we're contending with.

And also, here's a descendant to madness. Enjoy. We're not trying to assign it, the Tucker Carlster and Jordan Peterson. I was just saying it's just asking questions. And I think this movie legitimately is unlike that, to be clear. Unlike them. Yes. Okay, good clarification.

Okay, now we go to scoring. There'll be no eights. No eights. I know nobody's giving it a 7.5. So here we go. It's going to be 8.5 and above. Spoiler alert. Out of 10.

And I do give 10s to 50. I'm just putting it out there. I don't give 10 to employees or team members. I always want to keep them a little hungry. I'll give a 9.5, 9.75. There's no chance of that. There's no chance of that. But in films, I will give it 10.

There can be perfect films. I do believe TopConne Maverick is a perfect film. I give it a 10, up 10. Here we go. Going around the horn, Lon will start with you. Your score out of 10. I don't know if you are opposed to scores as a critic yourself, but let's try. I would give it, I mean, I would be very, I would be very sparing with a 10.

I think you could give them, I think that you're talking top film of the several years of the decade, maybe would be a 10. So I'm going to go, I think, 9.5 for Tar. I think that's a fair. I think it's a, it's one of the best films of the year. I think I think your, your theory that when we're looking back on the decade in film, it's going to be one of those titles. I think it's probably correct. Okay.

I think that happens with, uh, with some of the type of little children. And in the bedroom also are, I think are on that level and people regard them that way. So I don't think that's that shocking. So yeah, I think I think that's fair. And on your top 10 list, where does it fall? I know you're still working on. I can tell you exactly because I keep a running top 10 list going all year. Oh, and your notes app or something?

You keep it in it right? I do. It's a Google Doc. Okay. Where are you in? Right now, it is my number six move. I have it in the A.O. Scott slot. It's a number six of the year.

Wow. You want to hear the top 10? I can read it to you. Give me the top five above it. Yeah. Just so I can. Mad God is number one. the incredible stop motion animated epic, which I heartily recommend.

That's on Shudder right now. If you'll tip it, the special effects master's Star Wars, Jurassic Park. He made this stop motion animated film. Okay. And quickly, through the two, three, six, two to five. Okay, I'll go quickly. Number two, Park Chan-Wook's decision to leave. It is a neo-noir detective thriller romance from Korea.

Number three, after Yang, that's Kogonata's incredible sci-fi drama with Colin Farrell. That's on showtime right now. Number four, resurrection with Rebecca Hall. Also on Shudder, a thriller with her and Tim Roth, psychological thriller. Terrifying but brilliant. And number five, note, the Jordan Peel sci-fi horror film from over the side. Molly, give us a score here. What do you got? I'm going 9.2. Okay. I think it is all of the things we said it is. And also, it's too long. I'm sorry, that's a real thing.

I'm going to say, I don't think Mavericks are 10, actually, take it back. I want to reserve my 10 after Alon told me. I'm going to give both, both of these films are 9.5s right now. Both of them require a second viewing a year from now for me to really engage in them.

But, you know, for me like a Blade Runner, gladiator, Goodfellas, you know, those come to mind as my tens, you know, but I need, I need your, the master comes on and there will be blood come out as tens for me as films. It just takes a little more time

for me to see the film a second or third time. but I'm going to give them both 9.5s. I think this is an incredible film. Thanks for coming along. You should all watch it. It's a very important film. You should all watch it. Definitely.

Versus Neptune Frost. Like, I don't think many people will enjoy Neptune Frost. You'll be challenged by it, but this is a different thing. You will enjoy this if you give it time. Do an intermission if you need to. All right. I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.