This Week in Startups - Demoing Google’s MusicLM, AssemblyAI, and other AI tools with Sunny Madra | E1747

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

This Week in Startups is presented by: Issuu is the all-in-one platform for creating and distributing beautiful digital content. Get started with Issuu today for free or sign up for an annual premium account and get 50% off when you go to http://issuu.com/podcast and use promo code twist. Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal-breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. TWiST listeners can get $1,000 off for a limited time at http://vanta.com/twist .Tech domains are the go-to namespace to build anything in tech… and home to the world’s most innovative startups. Secure your .Tech domain today and lock down a 1-year domain for $10, or a 5-year domain for $50 at http://go.tech/TWIST today! * Today’s show: Sunny joins Jason to discuss the latest in AI. They chat about the launch of ChatGPT’s new iOS app and demo Google’s MusicLM (1:24). Then, Sunny tests AssemblyAI’s LeMUR and Wondercraft AI before wrapping with a look at Stable Diffusion’s deep fake capabilities (29:38). Follow Sunny: https://twitter.com/sundeep * Time stamps: (0:00) Sunny joins Jason (1:24) ChatGPT launches its IOS app (4:59) Sunny demos Google’s MusicLM (8:14) Issuu - Sign up for free or get 50% off an annual premium account by using promo code twist at https://issuu.com/podcast (9:33) Having taste, and how did Google train MusicLM (21:02) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://vanta.com/twist (22:09) The legal issues with training MusicLM (29:38) Sunny demos AssemblyAI’s LeMur (38:34) .Tech domains - lock down a 1-year domain for $10, or a 5-year domain for $50 at http://go.tech/TWIST (39:58) Sunny demos Wondercraft AI (47:18) Stable Diffusion’s deep fake technology (51:36) Creating more content with AI * Read LAUNCH Fund 4 Deal Memo & Apply for Funding Buy ANGEL Great recent interviews: Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis * Follow Jason: Twitter: https://twitter.com/jason Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis * Follow TWiST: Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin * Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast

I think it's interesting. As a podcast host, I can tell you, a lot of these podcast hosts suck. I guarantee you their AI will be better than 50% of podcast hosts in under three years. And that's not a really reflection of their ability at Wondercraft AI or AI. That's just a function of how bad some podcast hosts are. This Week in Startups is brought to you by, Issue is the all-in-one platform for creating and distributing beautiful digital content. Get started with Issue today for free,

or sign up for an annual premium account and get 50% off when you go to issue.com slash podcast and use promo code twist. That's ISS, you, you.com slash podcast and use promo code twist. Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC2 report fast. Twist listeners can get $1,000 off for a limited time, at vanta.com slash twist and dot tech domains are the go-to name space to build anything in tech and home to some of the world's most innovative startups secure your dot tech domain today and lock down a one-year domain for $10 or a five-year domain for $50 at go dot tech slash twist today all right everybody

welcome to this week in startups and really it's this week in AI we've never seen anything like this. So I made an audible. I called an audible. I decided to make a call in the middle of the year to have one of my great friends on Sunny Madra and Vinny. Vinnie's out today. And we just decided, gosh, instead of talking about all the nonsense around where we think AI is going, we just thought we would show you what AI is doing today. And this will serve as an incredible roadmap for you. This is your AI MBA. This is your master's degree. This is your PhD. Tune into this week in startups. I want to show you what's being built. And Sunday Madras here, he of course is the co-founder of definitive intelligence, which I have a little slice of. I put a

little investment in there. And let's people do analysis of information on the blockchain and other data mining analysis services. I think I described pretty good. Your own Personal data analyst. Your own personal data analyst. Ooh, this is a new mission statement. Updated, updated. Updated, evolved. Okay, I like that.

Your own personal data analyst. So we talked about this in ChatGPT4. I don't know if it was maybe a month ago, three weeks ago. It felt like three years ago, but I think it was literally three. You could upload a CSV and ask the data analyst at ChatChapT4. Hey, tell me about this file and it would make charts and give you some analysis. So you're going to build the industrial strength version of that, or you're building the industrial strength version of that, yeah?

Yeah, we already have it. You know, chat GPT is good if you have 100 megabytes of data. If you have terabytes or petabytes, then come talk to us. All right. So if you're screwing around, you can use the code interpreter on chat. I wouldn't even say screwing around if you're just doing something with small data. But, you know, if you're a big enterprise and you've got, you know, transactions for the last 20 years of your customers,

That's going to be, you know, several terabytes or even approaching petabytes for you. And you need to use a different set of tools. Big news. Chat ChippyT launched their iOS app. Yes. Which really does change your behavior. I have been trying to get, you know, I had this weird thing. I realized mobile Chrome does not let you set the default browser.

I didn't know why that's the case. I guess Chrome is getting greedy. Google's getting greedy. Safari's getting greedy. They want to own that real estate. I like to set my homepage up at what I would. want it to be. But this is now I'm going to just stop using browsers. I'm just going to go

straight to the chat GPT4 app. And Kurt Interpreter is now built into it. So did you download the app? And I had the app, by the way, like three months ago. They put me in the test flight. Yeah. And it was single use. Now, it seems like they're trying to get parity between the web experience and the app experience. It's not perfect yet, but it's getting there.

Yeah. And it doesn't have all the advanced features, like some of the stuff that we've been demoing. But what I found interesting is they did do like a, like a, you know, like a home screen widget. So I think that's what you were looking for at one point, right, Jekyll? And so you can, with the latest one, you can make it a home screen widgets, you can just push something on your home screen and it pops up and you can ask your question. But it, what we really need is I need to be able to say, hey, chat GPT, as opposed of saying, hey, Siri. And so that's the change that we really need is can I use Siri as an interface

for it and why do I need to use Siri for it. I guess maybe on an Android phone I could do that. Because Android lets you integrate into the operating system a little bit deeper than iOS does. All right. So we've been playing with a bunch of stuff this week. Big conversations all over the internet about regulation. We'll talk about that in a bit. But what have you been playing with this week?

Well, you know, let's start with someplace fun and then we'll get into sort of the media topics. And I know you're a big fan of this, Jayco, so I think this will be a fun one for us. I'm going to make sure I share this properly. Okay. So Google this week, or you know, launched this, or made available to some folks,

what they call Music LM. And what this is is basically a, you know, a model that is able to generate music based on prompts. And so, you know, what we can do is we can take some of the recommended ones here. And so

you can do, let's start with something simple. You click that here. and it'll give it just a few seconds, and it will generate this. Okay, so we're playing some funky music here. What was the... So that was the prompt here. I'm just going to read out to everyone.

It was drums that sound like rain and thunder. So that one is not all that exciting. No. I'll do another interesting one here, which is chill out elevator music. And then we'll get into some more kind of fun ones in a second. And for the folks watching here, you can see some recommended prompts that comes up with.

So, you know, it's a little. Okay. So this is, you know, it's kind of interesting, feels like a bit, you know, early music generation. We've gone through this before. But where it gets kind of much more interesting is when you prompt it yourself. So I'll do one, J-Cal and then you'll probably make it better for you. So let's do Tulum Beach Party. The old Touloum Beach Party. Yeah, with a bit of, what do you want to put in there? there. Let's say... Cyberpunk? Yeah, cyberpunk. Okay.

Or Blade murder or something. Let's see. See if we get anywhere close. So, there we go. Maybe. Maybe I had some cyberpunk in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you can do Atlanta trap music with a New York 80s flare. Oh, okay. Yeah. You can see it's got a bit... Sounds like Jay-Z's voice. No voice, it's just music. I thought I heard... It's just music.

But you can hear like Jay-Z's voice going to something like that. You could. You could. Yeah. So it's kind of getting something. So this has been trained on copyrighted music, I assume, or on maybe a library of...

Okay. What is this? New York 80s rap. Yeah, this is New York 80s rap. Yeah. Back in the day, we used to on the block. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-fla-fla-fla-fie-fah. Can't lose.

Boom-pap. Okay, listen, if you're running a sales team, you got a design agency, you got a media business, you know the hassle of one-pagers, right? They never format correctly on mobile. You can't track them properly. It's a complete mess. I have worked in the media business for many years, three decades. In fact, I'm getting old.

And nobody had to figure this out until now. You have to check out Issue.u.com. Issue is the all-in-one platform for you to create and distribute beautiful digital content. It's not just one-pagers, those are important, of course, but you can create marketing materials, magazines, catalogs, portfolios, and so much more. Beautiful, evocative collateral to help you sell your product or service, but it also comes with amazing analytics that you can just pop up on a dashboard and you're going to track the weeds, the total time spent, device breakdown.

watching it on their iPad, their phone. It also works seamlessly with tools like Canva, Dropbox, MailChimp, and Indesign. Having a trackable magazine, if you want to level up, your marketing needs, you need to use issue. So get started for free or get 50% off an annual premium plan at issue.com slash podcast and use the promo code twist. That's I ssuu.com slash podcast and use that promo code twist so they know I sent you for your free starter account or 50% off an annual premium plan. Yeah, so, you know, I think this is pretty fascinating. Like, where is this applicable?

So, and if you're familiar with Rick Rubin, right, legend in the industry. Big fan of the Allend, pod. He just sent me a copy of his book. Oh, awesome. Oh, really? Okay, that's incredible. So where does this go? Let's talk about that a little bit.

So, you know, he gave this pretty cool and interesting 60 Minutes interview. Yes, not that long ago, right? And one of the things that, yeah, there we go. Awesome. We got a queued up here. And one of the things that he talks about here is that he has no musical abilities. He does not know how to play instruments or use the mixer board. Maybe let's play the clip real quick.

This became a meme with Anderson Cooper. But exactly what he does and how is difficult to describe. Do you play instruments? Barely. Do you know how to work a soundboard? No. No technical ability. And I know nothing about music.

You must know something. Well, I know what I like and what I don't like, and I'm decisive about what I like and what I don't like. So what are you being paid for? The confidence that I have in my taste and my ability to express what I feel has proven helpful for artists. So curating, really having a great ear and curating stuff and being confident in your selection process. And if you take that alongside, you know, a tool like this, I think there's a lot of people that, you know, fall in a similar category that don't have the skills to, you know, maybe play an instrument and or run a soundboard, but know the type of thing that they want to listen to. And so I think tools like this will evolve to support folks that are not just songwriters, but that have a great ear for something. But I had no way of creating it, didn't know how to pull up like any of the music tools.

I don't know if you've ever tried to use garage band or something. I mean, the stuff is it will take you 10,000 hours. Yeah. You know, the proverbial 10,000 hours. And in fact, I just saw a clip of the lead singer of the Smashing Pumpkins talking about how, you know, people will be able to get 50 different riffs. And instead of having to spend a decade or two in their parents' basement, you know, like he did, finding interesting ones, they'll be able to just do that with the software. and it will still be a selection process. So you're defending creativity in this process.

I'm wondering, this is going to, this also was a copyright hearing. Last week that kind of went unnoticed where people are just talking about who gets the rights to this. So did Google say how they train this? Did they find stock music, which is available royalty free? And so what that means is somebody creates a beat based upon what beats in the 80s were like,

but they don't, copy anybody specifically. They just copied the genre. And then they put it available in a thing like Splice or there's a couple of other places you can buy beats that are royalty free. You can put into any song. You don't have to pay a royalty. You don't even have to give credit. So I'm wondering how Google train this because Google is smart enough to know that this, they should not train this on Spotify or something. So did they? Yeah. So I think what, and Nick is sharing the same thing here. I think it's trained on samples from YouTube. Ah.

Which is a very fascinating thing because they know what's copyrighted in YouTube. Obviously, they do a ton of work around that. Jason, you've talked about that a lot. And then they have a bunch of stuff that is just done organically and people are creating. That's what, you know, YouTube has so much content on it now. If you're a creator and you've created a beat, it's been uploaded there. So my understanding is that they've taken clips from YouTube to train this model. I guess we didn't,

hey guys, you didn't put where these quotes are. You put two great quotes in here. Where are those quotes from? Oh, sorry, that is from Google's

data set on Kaggle, which is where they host everything. I can pull it up on the screen. Okay, so, but is that how this was trained? Or are you guessing? Yes,

it's from their GitHub, for the music LM. All right. And so producers just pulled up that they built this, they trained it. Audio set consists of, audio set consists of an expanding,

ontology of 632 audio event classes and a collection of 2 million human label 10 second sound clips drawn from YouTube videos. Huh? 10 second sound clips drawn from YouTube videos. Doesn't see if those are copyrighted or not. The music caps database contains 5,521 music examples, each of which is labeled with an English aspect list and a free text caption written by musicians. Hmm. So if they, if they, if two million human labeled clips were of copyrighted content. I think there's copyright claim here.

Maybe they're saying they're only using such a small amount of it. Or maybe they're using people in the public as a way to defend themselves against copyright violation by saying those people made these clips so therefore you have to blame them. So in my scan of this, J-KEL, we were kind of looking at this

when we were preparing. Yeah. All the clips seem to be of, like, user-generated content. Not, okay. Yeah, so not like, oh, here's 10 seconds of rolling stones or something like that. The reason I bring this up is because we have talked about Sunny many times. Google waited to release this because Google is so aware of copyright claims because they bought YouTube at a time when YouTube had a multi-billion dollar, you know, lawsuit with Viacom and YouTube was going to be shut down for all the copyright violations going on there. and they were able to navigate that.

So Google is incredibly savvy on navigating fair use. They use robot.txte in their Google search. So you can opt out of being crawled. They get permission from people sometimes generally. They let people find music that other people are using in their videos and then let them shut down those YouTube videos or claim the monetization of that. Wasn't that the big unlock J. Kell, right? I've heard you talk about this a few times is when you can put music in

but they'll basically, they'll demonetize you for that video and they'll pick up the monetization. So if you have a video that has, you know, millions of views... So if we made our own track here and then we copyrighted it, so again, I guess

we could take these tracks and then we could claim copyright on them. Even though the AI built it, I wonder how that works. I wonder if that's in the terms of service. So if you and I sang over one of these beats, then we put it into, on YouTube, and we use Distro Kit to publish it to Spotify, whatever,

we claim copyright on it. Now, if somebody else uses it in their video, we can then get an alert, based on it being tagged in a database. Content ID is the system. Content ID flags, it tells us, and we can just say automatically, shut it down. So the Beatles might want to just shut down

anybody using their music and videos. But somebody else, the Rolling Stones might say, yeah, let anybody use it by default, just take their money. And so you may have seen all in two weeks ago, we put the Balenciago AI video that somebody made at the end of the show, and then it turned on ads on the show. So then we had a choice.

Either turn the show off, re-upload it, or just deal with the fact that somebody else is going to make, you know, $5,000 off that episode, which I think we just decided the latter. Wow. Yeah. So, and that's an interesting one.

Just, okay, so then it was it the music or was it the? The music that they use for that. own the right set of music. So they didn't make AI music. They used somebody else's track that I guess was used in a Balenciago stuff before I'm not going to play it here. Oh, okay. Crazy. And then here's the quote from this is a really interesting discussion. Here's

the lead singer of the smashing pumpkins. My general thought is that AI will change music forever. Because once a young artist figures out that they can use AI to game the system and write them a better song, they're not going to spend 10,000 hours in a basement like I did. They're just not. But are you, do you still

have the ability to get real art that way? Well, ultimately art is about discernment, right? So, like somebody was telling me the other day about how a famous rap artist would work, they would bring in all these different people and they would sort of pick the beat that they were most attracted to. Okay, now let's change it to AI. Hey AI, give me 50 beats. Listen, eh, I'm not really feeling. AI, give me 50 beats from the 50 most famous rap songs of all time. Okay? Well, I like number 37.

That inspires me. Yeah. So he basically nails what you just said. You can use this as a tool to be inspired. Use your curation. Your thoughts, Sonny? Yeah, I was actually going to just put in what he said in the tool, right? Like, should we give it a try?

Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Right? He said, give me a beat that is inspired. fired. By this 37th greatest song in hip-hop in rap. Yeah, 37th? Okay.

Yeah, he said, just see if it goes and finds a list on Rolling Southern. Rap song. Okay, ever. All right. See what it does. I don't think it has the 30s. No.

No. Maybe. No. See, it's not, well, that could be like an M&M kind of beat. Oh, the one, and I don't know. And I killed your cat. Um, yeah.

Okay, maybe. It's got some work to do. But I think, look, here's the thing. This is going to come out with weak results because it's not trained on copyrighted music. So I think this is weak and it's a one point out, right? Yeah, but you know, what I would say is like YouTube is full of very talented people that, you know, can produce like almost the exact same quality of, you know, copyrighted music.

You could hire people. Yeah. But here's what would be interesting. You're going to be able to take that language model, run it on your laptop, and take every single Dyer Straight song or every single Eminem song, Jay Z song, Biggie, put it in there, and then you're going to be able to do it on the copyrighted stuff, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's what people are going to be doing.

And that's something Google is not going to release, but this is, in fact, opportunity. And I guess this goes back to what Grimes is saying, you know, like, hey, just use, you know, what's her tool like health something? Um, so she's got a tool that they, she partnered with somebody just put out there. And she said, people are making songs that couldn't possibly be me, because I have a speech impediment of some type, like a Lisp or something and they, elf. Tech, the enunciation in this is better than I can enunciate. Yeah. Um, I think one got published, right? Just last week. I think it did, yeah.

And so shout out to DotTech, our new sponsor here. We're Health.com with Grimes. I wonder if Grimes secured a bag for using Dot Tech. If you're a SaaS or services company that stores customer data in the cloud, then you need to be, uh, SOC2 compliant. You knew that from a third party. And you need that third party to close big deals. And if you want to get compliant easier and faster, you need to use V-A-N-T-A.

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Vanta's going to give you $1,000 off. That's $1,000 off at vanta.com slash twist. That's Vanta.com slash twist for $1,000 off. Your sock, too. Very interesting moment in time. How would people tell, I guess, is the question, where this came from? Because it's not giving you sources. And this is the thing I think all these AIs need to do.

And I think this is where the legal issue is going to come into play. I don't want to obsess over legal stuff. But either you regulate yourself or you get regulated. That's the nature of business of life. If these people don't show their work, and it would be possible to show, here's what the AI, here are some of the source material the AI used to make this beat.

It is possible to do that. It is possible, right? It is like taking bits of it, but it may be, it may be, you know, several bits, maybe, you know, and it's all possible, yes. And I think that's where we're probably going to have to head towards because the black box nature just, that's also very much on the closed side of things. And I, and I, you know, what I anticipate is as we move to the more open models, JCal, what we'll see is those, those ones will have the kind of references baked into them. So people will want to see where it came from. And that'll force the folks that are doing it in the close. I also think the challenge is for, and this is interesting because it came up earlier today in terms of, I think a lot of folks, let me try to find this link, we're talking about like what these models have been trained on.

And I'm going to try to find this link as we're just talking about it here and send it to the guys. But like, there is a really interesting share here that people talked about what the training sat. was, and one of the things included the Enron emails for many of the models. So there's a big open source set from, you know, back in the late 90s 2000 era, yeah.

So that got dumped. There's no copyright claim. Yeah, it's just in the open because of the lawsuit, right? Because of the lawsuit. But each of those individuals, I wonder who owns the copyright to those emails.

It's not public domain. It would be Enron's IP. Yeah, here it is. There's no Enron left to sue. So I guess, you know, in order to have, this is a really edge legal case is sort of interesting to me, but not anybody else. The interesting thing is in order to have you have to have somebody bring the case and there's nobody to bring the case for the Enron emails. You know, when a company goes out of business, it's like, you know, who's going to defend, you know? You have to find who owns that copyright. There is nobody owns that copyright.

There might be a shell company somewhere that does, which is super interesting. But the Grimes, oh, here's a chart. What is this chart? So this shows what someone, let me read this for the folks listening. What's in the Pile dataset from AI Euler that is being used to train a lot of the open LLMs, right? The following chart analyze the tokens in the test set. There are 22 sets in Pile from socials like Wikipedia, GitHub, you know, Books 3, et cetera. And, you know, if we kind of zoom in here, you see at the bottom it's Enron email.

So there's like 600,000 end run emails in the training set. Also, Hacker News is in there. I guess that must be open sourced. And there's YouTube subtitles. Now, that's interesting. I don't see Twitter in here. I do see Stack Exchange, which didn't give their permission, I'm sure. So that's an issue.

PubMed extracts, somebody probably owns that. So this is really interesting. We're going to have to have data sets. The reason AI is going so well is the data sets, right? And combined with the hardware, combined with the software, you take out one of those, it's kind of could narrow the success of this, correct? Correct. Yeah, you mean, they, you know,

at the end of the day, these are systems which use, you know, math to predict the most likely kind of next. character and a sequence that the human would like to see based on what has been trained on. So if it's not trained on as good material, you're not going to get as good predictions. And so, yeah, I can see that really changing. And, you know, you've talked about this before with what's happening with Poe and others, right, where they've started to close their data sets off and say, come to us directly if you want to sort of use our LLM if you want to experience our data on this.

And by the way, in music, like, there are all kinds of crazy drive-by lawsuits where people try to, you know, claim that their song from 30 years ago inspired somebody and Ed Shearren just got sued. He decided to take it to the mat. Usually these things settle out of court. Sometimes people do actually steal people's beats and they settle with them. Other times, people are using chord progressions, you know, GCD, CFG, whatever, just court progressions that are obvious. And that exists in many songs. Here's Ed Shearren explaining this. What did you play for that jury? If I was the jury, yeah, what did you say to them?

So it was, um, so my one is, um, when your legs don't work like they used to before. And then there's, have I told you lately that I loved you? And then, um, um, people get ready. There's a train of coming. Um, and then, uh, what was the? Looks like we made it. Look how far we've come, my baby.

I mean, there was a hundred and one songs that. What I was saying is, like, yes, it's a chord sequence that you hear on successful songs, but if you say that a song in 1973 owns this, then what about all the songs that came before? We found songs from like the 1700s that had similar melodic stuff. And so what's the URL for this, just so people who know, if people want to play with that test kitchen, Just type in Google's music LM.

You should be able to find it. Yeah, Google's AI Test Kitchen. That's the best way to get to it. Google's AI Test Kitchen is the name of where they're putting these experiments. Yeah, it's AITestkitchen. WithGoole.com, so. Great. Just type in AITest kitchen.

You'll find it. So they're just sharing all their work now because they were getting their butts kicked by, at least in public perception. And so Google's in the game. Just generally speaking, you feel like Google's catching up. The gap is closing. What do you think? Yeah.

The gap is closing. You know, it's all hands on deck. It's a different mentality. It's shipped quickly. You know, all these things that have been in around beta for a long time or private or becoming available. You know, they are realizing, you know, there's a war for developer mind share. As much as there is for, you know, the financial side of the world wanting to hear about it, the developer mind share is really important.

So they've really started to make a big push in terms of engaging with developers and making, you know, the tools available so people can play with them and see them. So that's been a distinct shift in the last, like, you know, I've just even, you know, 30 to 90 days. Yeah, this huggingface.com just keeps coming up over and over and over again, having, I guess, one, some amount of just getting in early and being a place where developers can find the latest stuff. But what we got next? Okay, so we're going to look at assembly AI. I thought this one was really, really interesting. Okay. They do a, you know, very interesting job.

You can basically, so if we just, let me, I'm going to go to a different window for a quick second because this is one's in progress. So you show up and basically, you can, you can drop in a URL for anything with a transcript. So I, what I did was, because it's a good discussion point, I took last week's all in pod, I dropped in the URL. it does a transcription itself. And so here's a transcript on the left. And then what it does is it lets you create like a Q&A around it on your own.

And so what I did, I have a couple of examples queued up here. I said, you know, what was Friedberg's position on the AI hearing? And, you know, I think this is a good one. Friedberg's position is that regulating open source AI models will be impractical due to the rise of edge computing and many models already available, making it hard for regulators to try. track and audit all AI models. That was his position.

Yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. So you have signed up for this. This isn't available to everybody yet. This is in beta. Yeah. And I signed up and I thought it was really kind of neat.

Where do they charge to do a transcription? I think if it's under, it's like $24 a month or something like that, I don't quote me on the prices. Yeah. Oh, well, I'm looking at it right now. Audio intelligence is 0.00. 05 per second. So, I don't know what that is for an hour.

I'm doing the math right now. Yeah. 0.05 times 60 times 60. I don't know what that equals, but it looks like two bucks an hour. If I had to guess, I don't think I did the math right there. Fascinating. And so you could ask, what does Sacks think of Biden? Okay.

Or did Sacks mention Biden or Ukraine? Okay. I'll just do Saks mention. I mean, this is the kind of internal joke. Like everybody who's on the left, even some people on the right, are they play a drinking game. And be careful with this drinking game. They do a shot anytime he says Ukraine or Biden,

and you take two shots when he says Hunter. Yeah. If he says the media. Okay. No, he did not mention Biden or the Ukraine. It says. Oh, interesting. Interesting.

Well, this is like, I'll tell you what's interesting is very, sometime around last year, maybe 18 months ago, people started contacting us saying, hey, we can do all of this weekend startups, all of all in, we'll just transcribe everything. And I was talking to Nick about like, hey, I would like to do this for every, all 1,700 episodes of this weekend startups. And we had budgeted originally $500 per episode to have human transcription. Then machine transcription was like $150 an episode. plus we wanted to clean it up, put the people's names in it. And thank God we didn't do it because we started this process of doing like 10 episodes and looking at the results. And now I think this is all going to get so good that even doing it is a waste of time

because it's going to be built into every app. In other words, when you're on YouTube, the transcript is going to be so rich and great on YouTube. I don't know if we should even publish one. Does that make sense? Like I feel like this is going to go from 80% to 99% in the next. six months in terms of fidelity. Yeah. So I'm just, for anyone that's watching, I basically went to assemblya.com slash playground V2. And all you have to do, go here, drop the link. I won't do this again. And basically you're

off processing it. I did another kind of quick summary from here. I said, I didn't know the people. How does it know the people and separate different people? Because that is what, like, we had a service called Temi, TEMI that we were using for a while. We'd use Descript. And I think we have to identify. the people's names. Is that correct, producer, Nick? Yes, Descript is the best one at, they actually can identify different voices and then you just name the voices.

So they identify them and you tag them basically. Got it does it automatically. It's pretty great. I think there should be a thing at the beginning of podcasts when you're doing this where you say, hi, this is Jason Kalakanis. My Twitter handle is Twitter.com slash Jason. My website is calicanus.com. And then it, so if everybody did something like that, Nick, at the beginning of a podcast, Sunny,

then when you run it through these, it would just go find you and then it would add to the signature, hey, if you ever hear this voice again, attribute it to these two URLs. It's like a new robots at DXT. Yeah, it would be like just a way of defining

over and over again who somebody is. I have to say, just in my time working here, I started here in 2019 at the beginning of 2019, the transcript, the auto transcription world has completely changed.

It's gone from like a dollar a minute to, like this first one was, what, $2 for an hour and a half of It went literally from $100 an hour to $2 an hour. You're exactly right because it used to be Rev. Remember, Rev.com was the original and they would do human transcription. That was their big thing. And it was a dollar a minute. Then Temi came out, but they were not a not perfect. And now it's descript and they do every single thing for you. And it's a monthly, they don't even charge you on a per transcription basis. It's just a monthly charge. Crazy. And then the use of these transcripts is something I've got to get the legality around. What I want to do, there's somebody who can do this. this for me. I don't know if we can hire a developer to do this for this week in startups. I would like to just take the entire this week in startups corpus and normalize it and publish it to

Coda, Notion, you know, publish it to the web. And then, I've got a great firm that you should work with, the small, like, AI-focused law firm. We should, we should, we should, I can connect to it. Yeah. Well, I don't want to sue anybody. I just want to create my own website. No, but I thought you said you wanted the legality around it, so they'll help you with that. No, no, no, no. I mean, the legality, what I want to be able to do is come up with a lot of the legality. I want to be able to do is come up the license kind of like Grimes did, where I'd let people come up with a license that is if you can do whatever you want with the archive,

as long as you link back to the show page and, yeah, it's non-commercial. Maybe even let people do commercial, because they're interesting things with it, let them monetize a little bit. Rev share. Just a rev-share. Yeah, maybe rev-share.

Yeah, 50-50 rev-share. Do whatever you want. 50-50-rev share. Interesting. All right, let's keep on this one. So, like, the next question is a sum. of the Congress hearing section. And I think it does a really good job.

Like going back to your point on like, it's identifying what each, you know, of the host is talking about. So sort of what Sam's claim is and then, you know, what Chimoth jumps on about in terms of here. What does you say about Chimoth?

Is it, Chimoth says, like right here, I'm just going to highlight it. Chimaz says Sam went further than he initially suggested by proposing licenses for compiling and training models as a form of no-your, you know,

K-Y-C, know-your-cum-ciferation, right? Um, Sacks argues that Sam is seeking regulatory capture to maintain open AI's lead by creating red tape. Um, you know, Friedberg, we already got that. Pretty accurate. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, I thought, I thought this was one of the better summaries pulling out each person's position. And, you know, like, to your point, no one had tagged themselves. We've not done any work in terms of identifying, uh, you know, who is who. And it really, I think it really did a good job here. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah. Okay, great. So this is Lemur, L-E-M-U-R. Assembly.

A-I. Assembly.A-I. Or assembly-A-I-com. Yeah. So that's the company and that's their product. Very cool. What else do you got in the delightful demos that we do here? Demos on Monday.

Demo or die. Demo or die. We usually do them on Fridays, but like at work, but now we've got Mondays as well. Well, I'm just going to queue up the next one. So this one was really fascinating. By the way, there's got to be 20 people doing transcription stuff like this. So I wonder if they all just wind up in the same place,

which is perfection. Okay. So everybody who's a transcriber is now out of a job. The concept of transcribing is over. I don't think it's over yet, but you should really level yourself up with these tools, is what I think. So if you're a transcriber, you use these tools,

and then you have to build a product or service on top of it. And the product and service on top of it would be, as best I can see, I would want somebody to make sure that the names were attributed correctly and any pertinent links would be added to it. So if somebody was talking about assembly AI and Limer, deep link to it, to the Google AI sandbox, deep link to it, right? So, but of course, AI's, I bet you you could ask AI to go through and find the relevant links and somebody's going to make something that puts hyperlinks into documents that are correct. I think so.

job too. All right, everybody, you know I've invested in 300 early stage startups. And, you know, having a great name is critical. But it's hard to find a great domain name sometimes. So people will then compromise their search for a name based on what's available. And you know what? There's a new domain name I need you to check out. It's called dot tech. Yes, there are now dot tech domain names. And this is the one go-to name space to build anything in tech. A bunch of people over, using it. And I even got jason.com, which I'm using for a micro blogging site that I'm coming up with. It's not exactly Twitter. It's kind of like, not exactly like Tumblr. It's just going to be Jason.com, where I give updates all day long about little tiny things that I don't want to share on

social, but that maybe I want to share it with y'all. So go ahead and get your own dot tech domain name. And you can lock them down now. There's tons available. One year domain, 10 bucks. Five year domain, 50 bucks. It's a great deal. Now's the time to go get a great. Tech domain name. Again, the word go.com.com slash twist is where you're going to go get these great domain names. So you type geo. Dot tec-h slash twist to lock in a great deal right now. You want to do it today. You want to get in there and lock down a great domain name. And listen, if your company's already up and running, maybe you want that for your tech team or to have it as a possible brand extension later on. So if you've got a great brand, you want to get the dot tech version of it as well.

Okay, so let's go to this next one. So I'm going to open this one up. This is really cool. Wondercraft.AI. Okay, wondercraft.a.i. And it basically can create a podcast from a bulleted set of points. And so in this example, I said, let's do the Twist Weekly AI. What is the podcast about?

It's the weekly AI podcast discussing and showing the latest in AI product. I took three sections from the notion that we normally use here. So we talked about OpenAI app, perplexity, which we haven't got to yet here, and then Apple bands chat GPT. And you just kind of... You put some links in there too. To the source the links in there, yep, correct.

And it, you know, you kind of hit it off and then it's going to generate her. We don't have to generate it because it's already generated. So here we go. So I'm going to play this now, make sure the audio comes out. So it's generated. Here's the transcript of generated. So all we gave it was a title, topics, and, you know, some links. And I'm just going to play the little intro here and we'll get started.

So ready? Corny music. Welcome to Twist Weekly AI, the podcast that keeps you up to date on the latest developments in AI. Join us every week as we discuss and showcase the newest AI products. Don't miss out on any of the exciting breakthroughs in this rapidly evolving field. Okay. It's sufferable. That voice is insufferable.

And now she's going to ask for likes and subscribes. But hear me out here. It gives you an option to use your own voice when you're doing this. Yeah. And as I was going through the process here, you'll see, you know, one of the sections was to choose your own voice. And you can do a lot of editing here. You can do a speaker. You can, it's got a lot of choices here.

You can add your own voices. You're picking Kevin, Julia. So it has all these different voices. And also add your own voice and add your own music, which I didn't do. I just kind of ran through this relatively quickly. So you can go through this process and you can basically add your own voice. Now, who's going to use this? Well, one, if you're a one man show or one woman show and you're trying to one person show,

that's a part of more accurate. Yeah, everybody. One person show and you're trying to put something together and you don't have the resources that the great resources that Twist does. And, you know, you basically, you do your research, you find things that are interesting. you prop it up here and you can basically get a podcast going, you know, quickly. And you can use that as maybe not your primary. So what I've seen people start to do is people that are publishing newsletters

who are already doing the work or using this to create a podcast just as another media for them. And you can imagine if you're an enterprise, you got something interesting you want to talk about, so you can do that in there. So I'll pause there because this one probably strikes closer to home for you guys. So I'll let you react on. Yeah, I mean, like many things, you know, You want the human's actual reaction. We talked about Rick Rubin and his reaction to stuff and his taste.

So what this doesn't have is taste. It doesn't have comedic impact. It doesn't have the surprise, the banter that you and I would have. Now, how much of people tuning into this is for the banter and the personality? I would argue significant. How much of is it for the new. news value and the information. Well, podcasts are entertainment, therefore, and information, right?

So this weekend startups all in are giving you information and they're entertaining you. It's going to be very hard for this to be entertaining, authentic, and informative. But I could see this working really well if it was just reading you stock quotes, headlines, etc. So for something, but, you know, if I listened to it and I didn't know, and then I found out I would feel dirty. I would feel like I'd been tricked. So maybe that's just a short-term thing.

Maybe an AI personality is the future. And there'll be some version where this Joe Rogan, we talked about this before, you know, if I could have, I don't know, I'm trying to pick somebody who's no longer with us, Johnny Carson. And I can have Johnny Carson interview Jesus Christ or Johnny Carson interview,

I don't know, somebody who's died recently who was an incredible artist, but, you know, Howard Stern, live on forever. Right, or Biggie Smalls, you know,

like so now you've got Johnny Carson interviewing, you know, Biggie Smalls. It's like, well, that's fascinating. So there are kind of

permutations here that you can't get. Yep. But I do wonder how soon it would be, how soon it will be before these are witty and entertaining.

Can an AI entertain you? And do you authentically want to be entertained by an AI is I think, where we're going to get to. So if the AI made you laugh, you know, there's like a, there's a level of can it provide information that's accurate?

And we all agree it's on the road to being accurate. Right? But it's still delusional sometimes and hallucinations and you know, whatever. So, but and then the next step is can it actually be entertaining and can you bond with the personality? And I think that's what the movie

horror was about is can you cross that uncanny valley. Yep. In which you could fall in love with. And listen, people fall in love with podcast shows. They love listen to the show. They use that word love. Could you fall in love with this artificial podcastos?

Of course you could. And so will that happen? Of course. And will we be competing against, you know, I don't know, of the top 100 and 10 years, will five or 10 of them be virtual? Sure. Why not? Completely possible.

I actually don't feel, I feel like there's an artist out there who can make, there'll be an auto GPT or where they call it baby GPT. You know, auto baby, there's a few of them now, right? Yeah. So now let's make it a baby auto GPT where we unleash this thing on the world and we just say, go find interesting people and then create a fake interview with them. And could that be interesting? Yeah, could. And could you make a custom interview? So I wanted to talk to this person about the topics you're interested in.

So, I mean, the mind kind of can go to weird places. You could have, you know, if I really love Johnny Carson as an interviewer and. he, you know, or Howard Sturney retired, could I have Howard Stern having an absurdist interview with Dolly, you know, or, I don't know, pick a, you know, an actor who's no longer with us. And that could be fascinating and sure, why not? This is a good segue to the last thing. I just wanted to show quickly and then let's come back on it.

So the startup that's building this Wondercraft, uh, uh, wondercraft. I think it's interesting. As a podcast host, I can tell you, a lot of these podcast hosts suck. I guarantee you their AI will be better than 50% of podcast hosts in under three years. And that's not a really reflection of their ability at Wondercraft AI or AI. That's just a function of how bad some podcast hosts are. Yeah. And the sheer number that are showing up.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, this is an interesting maybe take. What do you think? I didn't get your reaction there. What do you, I gave my whole analysis there. Do you think I'm being objective? Or do you think I'm being precious because of a podcaster?

I think you are, but I want to tie it to this last demo, then we'll close out on the discussion. You did I'm being precious? A little bit. Okay. Great. Fair. Fair enough. You know, because, and so let's kind of tie to this.

So this is the last really cool demo. So this is a combination of stable diffusion, control net, E.B. Synth and Fusion, where they took a couple of scenes from Cowboys versus aliens, cowboys and aliens. And they replaced current Harrison Ford with young Harrison Ford. so I was just going to play this video here real quickly. Tell me, he's a fool. She's in a better place. All right. So your reaction first to that?

I've never seen this movie before, Cowboys versus Aliens. I've never seen it. Cowboys and aliens, I think. Cowboys and aliens. I don't know when that film came out. I don't know anything about it. I think Harrison Ford is kind of my style icon, along with Daniel Craig. So this kind of hit both notes for me.

Everybody can obviously see the likeness and the personality and the ruggedness that I do have. And I do exude that male rugged confidence and style icons of my two style icons. I like them old. I like them young. So it's a bad example for me because I feel like old Indiana Jones, old Harrison Ford. An aging Daniel Craig is kind of strikes a nerve with me that they get better with age. You know, like Sean Conner got better with age. I like these guys who don't get a bunch of

of Botox and they just are like, yeah, listen it's gonna, maybe they do, I don't know. But they kind of like, yeah, I'm gonna be old and weathered. So I like the weather, but it crosses the Uncanny Valley. The Luke Skywalker Deepfake from Mandalorian three years ago, it didn't. Some kid fixed it. They hired that kid.

And now I feel like this de-aging stuff is a whole awesome space. And I would watch, you know, Alex Guinness is the perfect example who played Obi-Wan I would watch an old Obi-Wan series and if they could get Alex Guinness as a state to secure the bag for 10 million bucks Disney Plus please do the old adventures of Obi-Wan Can you imagine?

Hall of Guinness like on adventures as a Jedi Knight Yeah Incredible And I heard he did and I just saw a tweet about Empire Strikes Back and the deal that he made to be in Empire Strikes Back It was like some rev share deal that netted him like tens or hundreds of millions of dollars over time.

Yeah. You're talking about Alec Guinness? I think so. Yeah, he played Obi-One in the... Yeah, he got paid a lot. He secured the bag. Yeah. Yeah.

But in Empire Strikes back, in Empire Strikes Back, he did some weird Rev Share thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he, George Lucas funded with his own money and some loans and the money from the toys, he had the sequel rights. He funded Empire Strikes Back himself. And so that's the other story. that's crazy.

George O'Lucas just was like the entrepreneur's entrepreneur and he almost went bankrupt doing Empire Strikes Back because they were filming in like Finland or something or Norway, the Hoth scenes

and then a blizzard happened and then that, I don't know if it was Pinewood Studios or wherever like a bunch of sets burned out. I mean, it was like problem after problem after problem.

There's an amazing tweet thread that has all those details in it. Yeah. So if you're a Star Wars fan, you know all this because he's talked about it over and over again. Yeah.

Yeah. And I didn't realize, but like Luke Skywalker got injured. That's why some of the in the face is injured. He got a motorcycle accident. Yeah. And that's why the Tontan scene he gets his face ripped by the Tontan. Yeah. And then they put him in the back to tank.

They did that because he actually got, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this was a deal. So I think it was like Guinness, right? Half a day. Half a day and was paid, you know, quarter point of the film's gross. Yeah.

I'm yamskis. You know, I'm yamskis. All right. Okay, coming back to it, just kind of closing out on your question. So I think there's a couple of different ways to think about it. I think one, we always want to be able to produce more content and we're not capable. Going back to sort of the music example. So I think giving people the ability to create more podcasts is excellent.

I think where the technology has to come together is like what I really like to see is a combination of what we just saw with the Harrison Ford. piece combined with a generative AI where someone can take the style. And we've seen that in these, the music ones that we've seen are like the AI Drake, where the underlying music and the tempo and the beat is done by someone else. And then the voice is replaced. Now, if those two things can sort of come together where someone can understand the style of J-Cal, and then, you know, you're willing to do the revenue share and say, hey, I would really like J-Cal to be my world's greatest moderator of my podcast. And, you know, he doesn't have the time to do it, but he's He's willing to do it through sort of what you talked about, like through his voice.

He's made it available through a platform that he has and it understands all the inflections and it has like a way of coming up with unique and interesting questions. I think that would be really great. I think that would be sort of, and I feel like we'll get there sooner than three years where someone will take all the nuances that you've put together in the, you know, hundreds of episodes. It's got to be more than that. It's got to be thousands of episodes that you have. We're at 1700 episodes. 1700 episodes. And it can come up with sort of all the.

uniqueness of J-Cal as a moderator. Love it. And yeah, that's what, you know, we'd love to see that. If you're doing something like that, we'd love to demo that. Tell me what you think about this Harrison Ford clip and then me being precious about it. Like, do you actually think that these things will replace podcasters? I said, like I could see in three years, you know, it would be these folks at Wondercraft AI or another, or even like a generic model, or you can roll your own, would be able to make a host

that's better than 50%. of hosts, but I don't think they're going to ever replace the top 25% or top 10%. I think if you're in the top 10%, you're a virtuoso, you're just so good at it that you're not going to be replaced. But maybe there'll be an AI that could crack into the top 10, but I don't think you replace the top 10%. What do you think? Yeah, I sort of think of content as this like pyramid, and at the top, it's like you said, it's the folks that have really, you know, tuned into the craft and put the work in. And then sort of, you know, at the bottom of the pyramid, you have everything else. I think there'll be a lot more at the bottom, but I do think we'll

see something crack into, maybe not the top top of the pyramid, but just below that, where we're comfortable, the cost base is more affordable for someone that wants to listen to it. And so, I don't think you're being precious, but I think I really like what you said earlier, you should embrace this and you should kind of lead the charge and say, hey, let's create, you know, the world's greatest moderator as an AI for podcasting. Yeah. That can be there to moderate your pods. If you kind of led that as a charge, I think, then you know, then you're not being precious about it. I get permission right now. Somebody can train an AI and make me as the world's greatest moderator and you can make the J-Cal AI totally cool with it and as an experiment,

non-commercial experiment, whatever, we'll see where it goes. And people can then create me interviewing Jesus Christ. I mean, I think that's what you got to, that's the benchmark. You got to have me interviewing Jesus H. Christ or who would be another historical figure. Well, I mean, I don't think we, the Jesus Christ is maybe a bit difficult, but yeah, because you don't have video of Jesus Christ. How about you doing Steve Jobs? There's a great video of you and Steve Jobs. Yeah, there's a great video of me and Steve Jobs interacting. Right. Yeah, do me interviewing Steve on the program. I like you in Jesus. No, no, well, that's kind of like Steve Jobs is tech Jesus. So have me interviewing this. Okay. Whoever makes the best

version of this, I will give a ticket, a VIP ticket. I'll give Sightie's VIP ticket to all summit. If somebody can create, how many minutes? 10 minutes or more? Yeah, 10 minutes or more. Whoever creates the best J-Cal interviewing Steve Jobs, but it has to be now. And it has to be, it has to hit on current events. So he has to talk about.

How about how bad Siri is? Yeah, him freaking out about Siri, me telling him, like me criticizing Siri, it's got to be one of the themes. Talking about maybe he could talk about AI and what he thinks the future of it is. Maybe he could talk about what would be a current affairs topic?

Trump, him talking about Trump. We never got to hear his take on Trump. Hmm. China, maybe. Talk about China, the relationship with China. I don't know. People don't care about his politics. Yeah.

It was not as a tech. I think it's tech. I think it's tech. Oh. Talking about VR and AR, me interviewing him at the launch of the augmented reality, that's, okay, that's the scenario. Okay, so there's a $7,500 VIP ticket at stake here. There's a bunch of AI people that are raising to make J-Cal interviewing Steve Jobs on the launch of the AR glasses. And you just throw the AR glasses in there because there's people who have them.

Does it have to have video, too, of us? I think it does, right? Has to be some video. Bonus points. bonus points for some video. Yeah. Or at least images, because you could just have the audio, have images. But yeah, we'll do creative and we'll announce the winner, whatever, at some point.

That's a big $7,500 prize. That's a big one. Well, I mean, it's also going to be sold out. So those tickets, I got 25 tickets, 10 for family, one for this contest, one for my Twitter contest. And then I've got for my LPs. And then I've got my close friends who are now telling me that I need to give them tickets because they're co-hosting this AI segment. So I have to get you and Vidi a ticket apparently.

I think Vinny's, what's the vibe on tickets? Have you, have you, what's the vibe in our circle on tickets? Are people losing their minds or what's going on? What's the back channel on the Olin Summit? Well, you know, I think everyone, it's a, it's an interesting spot because I think everyone assumes they have a ticket. Because I think as much has been said. Oh, I see.

Everybody assumes that they have a, everybody in our poker circle assumes they have a ticket. Yes. Because as much has been said. There's 20, see, here's the thing. There's 25 tickets per bestie. I told my wife, five, six for family, immediate family members. Yeah. I have to give like 10 LPs, my major LPs.

I got to invite them to the event. Of course. I can't do any of my startup founders, sorry, but I can let them buy maybe the generation. And then I guess I got some close friends. I got to think about, hmm. That's a tough one. It's a tough one. How do you feel about working the badge station being a volunteer?

Sunny. No, the volunteer. Everybody wants to be a volunteer from this thing too. All right, everybody. We'll see next time when this week's starters. Bye-bye.