This Week in Startups - Jason interviews EatKind CEO Neetha Avalakki and ‘TWiST Mean Tweets’ with Lon Harris | E1638

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

First up, Jason interviews Neetha Avalakki, the founder and CEO of EatKind. EatKind is an AI-powered search engine that converts ANY food or recipe into a vegan alternative. (3:20) Then Lon Harris joins Molly and Jason for another segment of This Week in Streaming. They play a TWiST version of celebrity mean tweets and discuss Neptune Frost. (36:41) (0:00) M+J Kick off the show (3:20) CEO of EatKind joins Jason (8:31) Embroker - Use code TWIST to get an extra 10% off insurance at https://Embroker.com/twist (9:41) Training EatKind’s AI + Product Market Fit (18:29) LinkedIn Jobs - Post your first job for free at https://linkedin.com/twist (19:44) Being a founder in India (35:12) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://Squarespace.com/TWIST (36:41) TWiST Mean Tweets with Lon Harris (49:46) Reviewing Neptune Frost (1:06:01) Directors and their breakthrough movies (1:12:22) James Gunn’s plan for the DC Universe FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis FOLLOW Molly: https://twitter.com/mollywood Subscribe to our YouTube to watch all full episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkkhmBWfS7pILYIk0izkc3A?sub_confirmation=1

Everybody, welcome to this week in startups on Thursday, Molly. I'm back at it. I'm being founders early. Yes. And I'm so excited. Today, I have a founder and CEO who is making an AI-powered search engine that converts any food recipe into a vegan alternative and tells you how to do that. AI, we're wondering what of the usage uses what we found out with this great founder.

And she is from India. I asked her a bunch of questions about entrepreneurship in India, and I got a huge lesson. And this is really what this week in startups is about. get to meet an entrepreneur, you get to learn, you get to be inspired. I came out of this interview, which is ready to go to India and meet 10 more Indian entrepreneurs. Really, really excited that we're bringing a lot of early stage interviews back to this week in startups. Absolutely love it. And this is an ongoing thing, by the way.

I've got one in the can that is similarly global and fascinating. And we're just going to keep on doing it because this week in startups. However, we also like to dive into this week in streaming. and we became briefly main characters on film Twitter for one day

you, me and Lon Harris mostly you mostly you so we're going to read some of our feedback and Mean tweets Edition we're doing

shout out to Jimmy Kimmel we're doing mean tweets We are doing mean tweets We're stealing it A tiny tiny bit But we also were inspired to step out of our comfort zones and watch some of

of the movies from the very list that kicked off all this kerfuffle. Yes. A.O. Scott's movie list. We watched Neptune Frost. And we will give our unvarnished take on this number two list on A.O. Scott's top 10 movies. And I

for the first time will demand a rating from Molly and Lon with no weights. You will be shocked at the results as well. I will read my first movie review in a I used to write movie reviews.

It's my first in a decade, and I will read it live on the air, and you will determine who is the better movie critic. Me or A.O. Scott. It's really going to be quite an amazing show, friends. I will also talk about the DC Universe. Oh, yeah, we got some DC Universe update. Wonder Woman, Batman, all that kind of good stuff. We do a little casting because clearly we're just taking over the whole industry now.

Absolutely. Our opinion matters most to us. It's going to be a great show. Stick with us. This Week in Startups is brought to you by Embroker. The Embroker Startup Insurance Program helps startup secure the most important types of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle. Save up to 20% off traditional insurance today at embroker.com slash twist. While you're there, get an extra 10% off using offer code twist.

LinkedIn jobs. A business is only as strong as its people and every hire matters. Go to LinkedIn.com slash twist to post your business. your first job for free. Terms and conditions apply. And Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to Squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch,

use offer code Twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. All right, everybody, welcome back to the program. Today on the program, we have a seed stage startup from India. And it's called Eat Kind. The founder's name is Nita Avlaki. Welcome to the program. Thank you, Jason. Thank you for having me here.

So we've been looking for interesting startups. We look all over the world and our producers found you. And we thought, wow, what a great idea. Tell everybody, what is eat kind? Eat kind helps anyone who is looking to eat plant-based or vegan food, convert any recipe in the world into vegan. So our search and discovery engine takes in a recipe. recipe name or a recipe URL from any recipe website that you ask you to veganize and scans the

ingredients and lets you know what you can use as swaps for all the animal-based ingredients in a recipe. So this is done location specific. So if you're using this in the US, you will be provided with options, products that you can buy in your possibly local store or online from American products that are available to you there. And currently, we are in three markets. U.S. and India is what we launched with.

And a few months later, we also did UK. So if you're trying this from UK or Europe, you will see products that are available in UK. And so would I be correct in thinking if a recipe called for in- one culture, butter, in another culture, ghee, in another culture, olive oil, maybe people's preferences would be different. It'll take that into account. Absolutely. So this is part of our own language training for our engine to understand the different names that are used in recipes and ingredients. So for example, the example that you provided was ghee. Ghi is also known as

clarified butter. So the recipe could be calling it either. So depending on who the creator of the recipe would use different terms for this. But while while you're looking at the recipe from US, you will see key options that you can actually buy in the US, which you probably did not know existed. So, and in India, it would show some of the local players here that make we're in key. Yeah, I mean, you could have creme fresh in France, or you might have sour cream in the US depending on the palette. And then, of course, now there are tons of vegan or vegetarian options for all of those. So you know what always works great is when a founder shows their product here on this

weekend startup. So would you mind giving me a quick demo in the audience? So we're at eatkind.co. So for people who want to visit it right now, eatkind.co, no m, right, dot co. Dot co. Right. So we have a simple search box on the page. So this is just one single search box where you can.

go type out what you feel like eating today. So it could be something like a lasagna, for example. Oh, you got me at lasagna. I love lasagna. There it is. L-A-G-N-A, yeah. So it's looking for ingredients. And then here we go.

So we can click on the Martha's Toad recipe. So when you look for a lasagna recipe, it shows up popular recipes from around the world. and these are not specifically vegan recipes. So now what this is done is that it's taken, it's passed the Bata Stewart recipe, detected what ingredients are possibly animal-based

and recommended products to you in the US that you can find as a replacement for these ingredients. And so if it's a meat lasagna, obviously, you got plenty of different choices that you might be able to swap out that are in the meat category, you know, some of the mock meat companies like beyond sausage or beyond meats, etc. Right.

There's so many different brands. And then obviously with cheese, okay, that's vegetarian but not vegan. And so you're going to need some cheese. And there's tons of that available, obviously. Parmesan cheese. We keep some vegan parmesan cheese in the house. Yeah. So how this works, for example, if I tried this in India,

and we do not have too many mock meat suppliers. So if you had to look for replacements for parmesan, you would be given options of possibly nutritional ease that you can use as a replacement because there aren't many manufacturers of parmesan, which is vegan. Or, for example, ripota cheese, the engine would ask you to use tofu in place of a storeboard you know, veganized record

our cheese. So it tries to find the closest replacement for you based on where you are. Listen, I've been dealing with business insurance

for three decades. I kid you not. Switching providers has always been a nightmare. Too expensive, takes too much time, and it often doesn't guarantee you're going to get any better coverage.

But now you can make switching radically simple with Embroker. Embroker is the perfect destination for industry-tallored commercial insurance. It's business insurance specifically for startups. Yes, you're listening to This Week in startups.

That's why they're here. That's why we're here. In Broker's single application will help your startup get four quotes for four lines of coverage in but 15 minutes. They match you with expert brokers for unmatched service that goes well beyond your policy. And listen, in Broker is so amazing. I use it. Again, it's just like a testimonial here. I use it.

I love it. My team loves it. It makes life easy. Try in Broker today with the code Twist, and you get 10% off their startup package inbroker.com slash twist, in Broker, E-M-B-R-O-K-E-R-com slash twist, and use that promo code twist for 10% off. We love the product. Thanks for supporting us for so many years here at this week in startups. Now, is the reason that you're able to do this semantically so quickly across so many

different categories? I noticed it pulled a lot of different recipes. I remember five or 10 years ago, I think there was some sort of, tagging or CSS HTML project where when you build a recipe on the web, it knows ingredients, it knows steps, and you actually write the code so that Google knows how to organize them. I don't know what that's called that standard, but there's a web standard for recipes, is there not? Right.

So this is called either a schema or structured data. So Google provides a guide on what different types of structured data exists for search engine to understand. So the other examples of structured data could be a corrosal, a list. So any listicle would be structured as a list. And a recipe

is structured as a recipe. So it's divided into what is the description of the recipe, what are the instruction steps, and what are the ingredients? And it can go further down into what are the

components in the ingredients, which is what is the quantity, what is the unit, and what is the ingredient name, and so on. But our understanding of ingredients comes more from understanding a ton of open products, product lists that are there. So we have to scrape thousands and thousands of products to understand how they are exactly tagged. So when I say products, this is usually what you buy at grocery stores, and we had to scan these to understand how the ingredients are named so that we could get a deeper understanding of what goes into the cooking and not just the structure of the recipe.

Right. So for people who haven't seen this before, I'll just pull up very quickly, Google, in order to make search work better, has documented a bunch of different structured data sets. So here is the code and how you write a recipe, how to item list. And so when you're writing your code, you would say, hey, these are items, hey, these are steps. And then that gives Google the ability to index them, which is why when you go to Google and you see recipes, they're done so well.

And here is actually the code, how it is written. But this same structured data, I assume, doesn't exist for all products out there. And it's a little bit harder. So you had to do that work yourself. Right. So it does exist for product. So we had to scrape like several sort of marketplaces or e-commerce places where products are sold and see how they're tagged. So if you had to buy a milk product, how is a milk tagged versus condensed milk and evaporated milk in different countries?

So this is how we train our engine to learn about ingredients because ingredients are nothing but products that you buy in stores. Right. So what is the business model here? clearly we understand the need for this. The number of people who are becoming vegan or vegetarian grows each year. I think the bigger trend, correct me if I'm wrong, is people who are going to maybe eating a lot less meat. So maybe people are trying to have two or three vegan.

And I don't know what that's called. Flexitarian. Oh, flexitarian? I like that. So I have heard that term. So I guess flexitarians are just trying to maybe not eat meat seven days a week, maybe get it down to two days a week, three days a week. which is great for people's health, I understand,

and obviously good for sustainability on the planet. So how do you think you're going to make money from this? Is this something consumers will pay for? You put an in an app, you get a subscription, you think, or do you think you make money from it from affiliate fees? That's always tough for advertising. What's your revenue plan here as a startup? You rightly pointed out our big market is the flexitarian market,

and this is an ever-growing market of people, wanting to reduce their meat and dairy consumption. And our goal is to not, currently, this could be looked at as a very cool AI tool that can, you know, veganize meals with a snap of a, you know, like the click of a button. But going forward, our goal is to get more people to actually go buy these ingredients and cook a meal. So we will definitely be looking at having a subscription model for users who want to in the future create a meal planner that helps them meet their personal goals of eating less meat and less dairy and also stick to the cuisine and diet that they are familiar with already and not navigate away from it. So I think that is one of the biggest challenges that flexitarians have is that they do not have enough knowledge about the plant-based sector or the world like vegans do. And they want more options in general.

And they probably do not want to cook differently, especially if they're cooking at home for their entire family. So we are looking at mostly a subscription-based model. but also we want to fulfill the goal by making it easy for users to add to cart and check out these ingredients as well. And they're looking at veganizing your recipe. I guess in the United States, Amazon's whole food product or Amazon's. Or you could have multiple when you click on some mock meat, you could have or tofu or something or some mock spread or cheese. you could have links to other ones. You can monetize that on the margins.

It's not really great revenue for a startup. It's really not so... Absolutely. Yeah, it's not so expensive. Yeah, that can be the main business model for us, but we would definitely do this if it meets convenience for our users, for our end users. What I love about your subscription idea is if it's a subscription product,

oh boy, you know if people are getting value from it because if they don't, they unsubscribe. So it's one of the great things. about the subscription business model is you get that feedback as a founder and you really, your team and you are going to have to work really hard to provide enough value. Obviously, this is on the web to start. I guess you're going to move to a mobile app. That would be a great place to get subscriptions.

Do people in India, are they mainly on Android on a percentage basis? And then do they subscribe regularly to apps? Is subscribing to apps something that you see as a popular thing to do in India? You could educate me a little bit on the market there. Yes, Android is a big platform in India, and Indian consumers subscribing to apps has not taken off like it has in the Western markets yet. So even if it did, it would be mostly in the entertainment businesses,

like Netflix type. So we have our own Indian versions of it to watch TV shows and movies or could be stories. So I believe the market is getting hot in that space in India. But it hasn't happened yet, but that's an opportunity. My understanding is like iPhone's like 5% of the market there. I would assume iPhone is the top percent of the market, the people who have maybe the most money to spend.

So those might be the best market to go after. So what do you do as a founder? Do you go after iPhone for 5%, which might be 50% of the subscription revenue, or do you go for the 95% Android? What do you think? How do you make that decision? So for each kind itself and the flexitarian market, the big markets are in the US and Europe, and that's what I will be targeting.

And the US is mostly iPhone. And Europe is a mix, but also like my iPhone is big. So that iPhone is not something that I can ignore. Well, coming to the tech aspects of this, right? We're no more looking at developing two separate code bases to support multiple platforms. So we will be looking at, you know, a single code base and packaging them as apps on both the platforms. If people don't know this in the United States, everybody assumes Android is still in the lead here, but it's actually 55%. So right now, every potential new hire can.

can feel like a high-stakes wager for your small business. Your runway might be a little tighter right now, right? And fundraising, certainly that's a little bit harder. So you want to be 100% certain that you have access to the most qualified candidates available. That's why you have to use LinkedIn Jobs. Lincoln Jobs helps you find the right people for your team, faster and for free. Then you add your job to LinkedIn and you get that purple hiring frame to your LinkedIn profile. That spreads the word that you're hiring.

So your network sees the purple rig. What a great innovation over at LinkedIn jobs. We love all the easy to use tools that LinkedIn gives us. That's what we do our hiring. Like screening questions. Screening questions, they filter out the non-serious candidate. And it's really that simple. LinkedIn is where the most qualified people are.

And that's where you're going to find your next rate hire, just like I do. And so go find amazing, talented candidates today. And you'll understand immediately when you get to LinkedIn jobs, why they are rated number one in delivering quality hires versus leading competitors, LinkedIn jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, and they help you do it faster. Post your job for free. That's right, for free. LinkedIn.com slash twist.

That's LinkedIn.com slash twist to post your job for free terms and conditions apply because you're giving you something for free. What's it like as a founder in India in terms of trying to understand and conquer the U.S. market while you're based in India. I assume you get this great arbitrage. My understanding is a great developer in India might cost how much a year. tell me what a great iOS engineer might cost. Okay, I'll need to convert, but would probably cost about $60,000.

U.S. dollars per annum. Which would be half to a third. In the U.S. you would expect to pay 120 to 150. So that's a significant arbitrage. You could have two iOS engineers for every one in the U.S. Absolutely, right. But Eatkind is currently hiring globally. Our developers are in Indonesia, Ukraine, India.

So, well, since it's a 100% remote country, I also want to leverage the talent worldwide. Also where I live, which is Bangal or India, is also a startup hub. And hiring talent is expensive, even if, if it's, you know, India standards, it's expensive to do in India. So hiring globally helps because there could be a lot of mission online developers who would want to work for a startup like Eidkind.

So that broadens my search for talent. Yeah, absolutely. And that's interesting to hear. Even in India, you're raising money there and then thinking, hey, maybe Bangalore or some other places might even be more affordable than India, engineers, obviously, in India have been coveted for a long time. So you might be able to do even better in Eastern Europe, et cetera. Tell me about raising money for a startup in India.

I know why Combinator has aggressively tried to court, especially when they were doing remote entrepreneurs in India. Is Y Combinator a bit of a force there? Are you seeing American angel investors or American venture investors dabbling in the Indian market today? or are you raising money from angels who are local? Good question. So currently, Eidkind is bootstrapped.

I'm in the middle of closing an angel and family and friends around. And my investors are both based out of the U.S. and India, and I've incorporated in the U.S. Okay, Delaware Seward. Got it. Yes. Looking at the future, it does seem like American investors understand the space more. and the market.

So it's a little difficult to explain the flexitarian or the plant-based sector to the Indian market or to investors based out of India. And I think the primary reason is because India is already mostly vegetarian. Right. So it could seem a little alien that now some people would need help in veganizing specific. If you've been eating vegan for generations or vegetarian for generations, you don't need this tool. If you're an American who's eating meat and potatoes your whole life or you're from Ireland like me or whatever, you're Irish. Yeah, you might need to start to think about, well, how do I replace eggs in some bread or cake I'm making?

How do I replace butter? What's not going to ruin the taste? When you raise money, what are the valuations like in India? Are the valuations different? So for friends and family around here in the U.S., typically, $2, 3, 4 million would be the valuation? Is it the same in India? Or do you have lower valuations because the market, the cost basis is lower for running a business there? I think this year is slightly different from the previous year, last year. And Indian startup

valuations were as crazy as the Silicon Valley of startups. And currently, I'm raising family and friends around at a $1 million valuation because I do not want to get into the problem of high valuations with this economic circumstances. Yeah. So a million dollars, you dilute 10%, you get enough money if you're frugal to go for a year or maybe even 18 months and figure out product market fit.

And then how do you, as somebody based in India, understand the U.S. market. Do you need to hire folks? Just like I have no idea how to build a startup in India. People always ask me to invest in India in startups. And I'm like, I really don't understand the culture. You're from India. I don't know if you spent time here.

How do you as a founder start to understand the U.S. consumer? What's your process? Yes. So for me personally, I've been, I have traveled to the U.S. a lot with my previous work as well. I've built products for U.S.-based companies who have traveled to the Silicon Valley a lot. So I understand a lot about the U.S. culture as well as the plant-based market there. Spent a lot of time at Blue Bottle with Otley coffee. Oh, yeah, you got the only.

Sorry about that. I don't know. Chmott's not very happy about that. I guess you listen to All In sometimes. Only by default. but that's but that that that's sort of

the default that's available and most coffee shops in the US right so culturally I'm a little aware I do keep traveling to the US

but as we grow if we need anything that's customer facing like customer support will have to be hired in the US for the tech part of it I can hire

anywhere around the globe. When you look internally in India, what are the startups that Indian entrepreneurs and domestically that people are going after? Is it video games? Is it productivity software? Where is the excitement in terms of the entrepreneurial community, in terms of new ideas and things that are being built and funded there? Is it e-commerce?

Is it on demand? What are people building? I think there is a sort of a spike in regional language content in India. So India is not a huge homogeneous market like the US. We have different cultures, subcultures, lots of different languages. So the upcoming products, what is tagged as the next half billion, are really, racial language content that Indian consumers are currently consuming paying for. And that's where a lot of startups are innovating and VC money is going into as well.

So you've got a billion people, I believe that's around the number. Right. Yeah. But then you have people, I guess, Hindi, Bengali and Punjabi. Absolutely. Jabi. I mean, I meet all my friends. They tell me these.

But there's 20 more. And these are all distinct, unique cultures into themselves. Would they all use the same apps or do they need to have different apps? Would an app need to be almost regionalized for that different group, those different groups? Yeah. Every app in India are built for the Indian market needs to be regionalized. So they all need to support multiple languages, content in multiple languages as well. It could be movies or music or, you know, or audiobooks, whatever, TV.

Fascinating. I just started watching a TV show. I don't know if you've seen it, but it is called Kota Factory, K-O-T-A factory. It's become quite popular here in the U.S. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's a – I saw it on Netflix, and it was one of the highest-rated shows. You know, what I do is when I'm looking for a new TV show to watch,

I look for a show that's like on the critics list and this one, Kota factory. I guess they've done two seasons to comedy. But it's about people going to, I guess, this region to do very well on their standardized exams. I was just curious if you had seen it or not. Because it seems to be getting very popular here in the U.S. It was the first time I've heard of it. Okay. I'm not sure.

Yeah, I think it's a Hindi TV show. I think that might be right. taken, right? Yeah. Yeah. Did you enjoy the show? Oh, that's quite highly great. I'm in the first, I just finished the first episode when I was on the treadmill. I like to watch a TV show on the treadmill. And I did enjoy it because I got to see young people in India and the pressure they're under to perform on standardized tests. And it reminded me a bit of, you know, maybe not as much today. Standardized tests are not a big thing here in the U.S. as much. But when I was growing up, you know, in the 80s and 90s, standardized tests were probably peaking as like the most important thing

in your life. And in this series, for these young individuals, their entire lives are revolved around these. Is that your experience in the educational system there? Absolutely. Tell us about it. We don't know. So for the audience, explain the pressure you were under in whatever, high school or

and getting into college and these standardized tests. What are they called and what's it like? I'm an exception or a rule. My education has been. and the kind of pressure that I've had from my parents have been very different from a typical Indian student. But we do have what are called board exams. Board exams is what a student takes around 10th grade,

which is at age 15 and 12th grade at age 17. And parents make it out to be that this is the greatest thing in your life. And everything depends on the marks, or the grade, we call it marks here, that you score in these exams. And we have to study something like 13 different subjects for a period of month or two that we'll have to give these final exams. So these are not really continuous grading. But I think now a lot of schools are moving to a continuous grade system.

So there's less of pressure on the kids and kids also continuously study. And there are a lot of in bigger cities, a lot of alternate forms of education. But board exams and also entrance exams, so if you have to get into engineering or medical, so there are like different entrances that you have to take, which is called an entrance exam, to get a seat into that. And especially if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, parents are not very privileged. They will not be able to pay for a seat.

So it's very important, given how the competition is with the Indian population. These are extremely competitive exams. And unless you're in the 99 percentile, you're likely to not get a seat in a very good university or a college. Curious how you're looked at as an entrepreneur. and also as a female entrepreneur, is entrepreneurship looked at as like a really awesome thing for a young person to do in their 20s, or is it looked at like you people are crazy?

And then even more specifically, as a female founder, how are you looked at in India by your peers, by parents, or your parents' friends, what do they say about you being an entrepreneur and starting your own company? Do you think you're crazy or do they think it's awesome? Mostly they think it's really, really awesome. very proud of what I do. I started my startup journey in 2008.

This is my second startup. Back then when I joined, my first job was with Honeywell. I quit Honeywell to join a startup, which was angel funded back then. And during 2008, people thought I was crazy to do that. That I would not work for a US-based company or rather work for a small Indian-based startup. but now the startup ecosystem is so big in India and probably the fourth biggest in the world where I come from Bangalore.

So it's sort of flipped and reversed. So if you're in Bangalore, India and if you're not working for a startup or if you're not an entrepreneur, it seems strange. Oh, really? Fantastic. Yeah. But when I started my career, I did get counseled a lot. by people telling me that you shouldn't be doing this.

You should look at career stability where you can settle. But I always wanted to learn more. And I wouldn't find these opportunities and big corporates or organizations. But I'm happy to see that things have changed. And also I notice this when I'm hiring interns that they're really excited to work for startups. and they know that it's a huge learning opportunity for them. So it's not about the money that they can make. But they are always so when I ask them why you want to join Eatkind or a startup,

they always tell me that most of them tell me that they want to be an entrepreneur and start their own companies. They want to learn how we work within a startup and how we think about business model and other things, even if they're interviewing for a role for developer. So I think that's, that's, It is so great to have you on the program. Thank you for educating all of us on what's going on in India and the startup landscape. Continued success with eatkind.coe. Everybody check it out. Nita, it's just, it's been a pleasure. I wish a great success with it. And America and India, we have such a great relationship, these two countries. So many of the entrepreneurs I invest in here are first or second generation from India. And it's really amazing. to see the entrepreneurial spirit. It's just to be blossoming and growing there.

I think the fact that so many of the great technology companies here in the United States are now being led by Indian CEOs and management, it just shows how hardworking and innovative in that entrepreneurial spirit in India. And even for us Americans, we are super impressed. And so we expect great things from you. And I hope maybe in a year you can come back on the program and tell us how you're doing everybody check out eKind.co. Absolutely.

It will be a pleasure to it. And thank you so much for having me, Jason. My pleasure. This is amazing. Listen, if you want to be an entrepreneur or start a side project, Squarespace is an amazing place for you to start. Squarespace is the platform where you can build or sell anything.

You all know about it. I've talked about Squarespace forever, but there's so many great features that they've been adding year after year. That's why we use them here at launch for all our websites, Remote DemoDemoday.com. You can see one of our latest websites. And here are some of the features that you need to know about because Squarespace has not only the tools to make a beautiful, well-designed site that's responsive on mobile and iPads. It also has e-commerce built in.

And they do inventory management APIs, advanced analytics, in addition to those beautiful templates. Plus, they now have something called member areas. What are those? These let you generate revenue through exclusive members-only content. For example, you can sell a subscription to a cooking class or customer. recipes or your photographs whatever it is if you can think of it you can build it on squarespace and you don't have to give 15% of your top line to those other platforms which is really greedy that's way too high of a take they also have appointment scheduling now so you can

add online booking to your square space website head to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial all of that in one simple platform and when you're ready you can use the offer code twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We love you, Squarespace. Thanks so much for being the longest running partner here at this week in startups. That means a lot to me. Hey, everybody, welcome to this week in startups, Molly. It is Thursday.

Therefore, we have this week in streaming with Lon Harris. It has been an eventful, eventful week for us. This is the most eventful week in the history of this week in streaming because last week, I was a little offended a little bit by A. O. Scott, the famous movie critic, cinema critic

at the New York Times for making a top 10 list of films the 10 best films of Unbelievable. Stay on strike. This is how trolley you went with this. Oh, for God's saying. I've been chattling my inner S poster. And I said, Listen, stay on strike.

I'll say. If you're going to leave Top Gun Maverick off your top 10 list, Oh, God. Yada, yada. I went on a little hard. This is why everybody hates us. This is why everybody hates us. Lon and I do not deserve this.

I'm so sorry to both of you. Oh, my gosh. But I am, I was, I might have had a beverage. I don't know. But I was very perturbed by this list. Some people might stay triggered, but I'm not going to apologize because I think it's an important, As everybody knows, A.O. Scott

named this list, the top 22. The top 10 films of 2020. Not his top 22, the 10 best films. Good one. I'm saying it's the 10 best films, but every critic writes their top 10 list. It's not like A.O. Scott is forcing his top 10 on everyone else. People wait all you to see what the critics top 10 lists are going to be critics, they have their own awards shows.

It's an established thing. Okay. All right. It's free speech, bro. Yeah. Oh, well, bled. It is free speech. But the exclusion of Maverick from this list triggered me.

It's not excluded. It's just not one of his 10 best movies in here. It's enough of my opinion. It's enough of your opinion. It's enough of Molly's opinion. It's now time to see what the internet thought, Molly, please. Teeth this all up for us. Oh, God.

Jesus. They were not happy with you. No, they were not happy. And it was amazing. And now we get to play a game that I don't think we've ever gotten to play on this game called Mean Tweets, which we are stealing from TV. Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel, thanks. I want advice on art and I want it from Bloodless Tech bags.

So this is honestly perfect for me. Oh, God, that's so great. This was incredible. It made me want to get T-shirts. And I want all of us to go on Disneyland crews wearing our T-shirts. Bloodless Tech S-bags. Bloodless Tech S-Bags bags. He's referring to me.

referring to you or not Molly. Not anymore. Now it's in plural. We do not deserve this. I apologize. A lot of people definitely responded to this without watching. Because if you watch the video from the very beginning, I'm very clearly like, Jason, you're completely wrong.

Correct. This is great. Movies are terrific. Everyone should watch movies. I make it very clear from the beginning. So there were a lot of people who sent me stuff that made it clear that they didn't watch what I was saying in the video. I agreed with you based on the thumbnail.

it's Twitter. So of course they didn't because it's Twitter. A lot of these responses are including all of us or some of us in this when they really just mean Jace. Which is why, Lon, we're also getting the t-shirts that say bloodless tech S bags. I include myself as a great t-shirt. Okay. Really good t-shirt. All right. Should I read this one of myself? Oh, yeah. That's Scott Tobias. He's a notable film critic. Yeah, AV Club. Like I read Scott Tobias. Who wrote? Okay. This is psycho behavior. Have you considered that he loves a bunch of films you haven't seen? That's exactly what happened.

To which Jake How responded. I felt the need to reply. Put the drink down. Have you capitalized considered that TopConvera Maverick is the best American film in a decade? Which I'll be clear. That is your trolling. I mean, he's considered as a film critic. I know that.

I know who he is. I've read his work. I appreciate his work. But to be clear, this is a pure act of trolling now. Yeah, it is. In a decade. Yes, we understand. Yes.

Everything going forward is pure trolling. If people don't get that, that's totally fine. But I am leaning into this. I am literally in this tweet to break down the trolling here. I'm telling him that he hasn't considered top gun maver. You have got it. And he's a film critic. He's so proud.

He's so proud of this. I am. I am. What are you doing here, Lund? This is my time to be. This is walking into the Academy of Motion Picture Artis and Science is carrying a sink. This is, this is, this is

a let that sink in. This is a let that sink in moment. We can see a talk and graphic. Okay. Continue, please. This is amazing. This is amazing. Every personality is on display right now in our Zoom too.

Because Lon is like, Lon is just like straight up, go for it all in on Twitter. I'm like, I'm too good for the fray. And, you know, which is my own issue. And then J. Cal is just like, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll. This is the corner of Twitter in which I hang out all day.

Like, these are my people on Twitter. I'm going to do a public apology. This was a world's colliding moment for me where people are like, these are a lot of people who know me only from on Australia so don't even know I'm on this week at Starz. I'm like, what are you doing on this show with these tech bags? We take our reputations in our hand every day alone and we just go out on the limb. Wait, what was that?

It's almost like, says Drew McQueenie. It's almost like the person whose job it is to watch as many movies as possible has broader taste than the tech dink doofus who clearly has zero interest in film. Thank you. Okay. Drew McQueen, another very notable voice in film criticism. He was Moriarty on Ain't a cool news if you remember going back that far. Oh, wow. Yeah, I know Moriotti.

Of course. That's Moriarty. That's Moriarty. Dink doofus. I love it. I love it. This is fantastic. Tech ding duffis.

That's a, that's a. good construction. Technically, it has illiteration. Mm-hmm. It's a good. Yeah, basically I I basically came at

professional writers with a hot take that makes zero sense in their world. And then I doubled and it's just, it's the worst take possible. It's not a great take.

It's the worst take possible in their world. And so, and I doubled and tripled down on it just for comedic effect. Just quintupe. they've been really troll, none of these matter

at the end of the day until we got this tweet. GDT. My God, one of my favorite directors of women. Oh, man. GDT responded. Guillermo, Guillermo del Toro. That's how far this went.

Oscar winning actor. Director. Director. I'm sorry, director. I'm sorry, director. Odter. Water. devil's backbone,

Pacific Rim, Crimson Pete. So many great homes. Top 10s are not all pageants. They at best declare versions of cinema that express self. And they don't close a door.

They open 10. I think that's the key point. This list doesn't mean you're not allowed to enjoy Top Gun Maverick or it's not a great movie and it didn't do what it needed to do. It's just saying, here are 10 films that for A.O. Scott were

significant this year that he would like to share with his readership. I think that's the spirit in which to take this list. And yet our troll friend was unbowed. Unbowed. You know, listen, you're going to fight with, uh, with Guillermo del Toro. Literally wrote back to Guillermo del Toro. Bro, did you even see Takka, Maverick? Do you even lift?

The nicest, kindest, most generous soul. Just a genuinely great guy. A mensch. A match. You could tell because he didn't really like a bloodless tech dink bag. Yeah, not you're to insult anybody. He said he's a true artist and he just, he wants to share these films, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Take hell don't care. Did you see Top Gunne? I loved Hellboy. I just want to say, I love the Hellboy. He did the Hellboy stuff, right? I like his Hellboy films as well. I love the Hellboy stuff.

And didn't make your top 10. Jason wants to know. That was incredible. Pan's labyrinth. Amazing. It's fantastic. Have you seen, have you seen the devil's backbowls? You're just looking up his movies right now, aren't you?

I am because I'm looking through them because I just, I've always loved them. It's one of the few directors that when I see his name, I go see the film. I don't care what it's about. I know it's going to be interesting. Shape of what I love. Tell me about that devil's backbone. The devil's backbone is, it's set during the Spanish Civil War, and it's at an orphanage where a bunch of like, you know, like children orphaned by the war or whatever are living.

And it's really like kind of a coming-of-age drama set among these kids at this orphanage, but it's also a ghost story. They start seeing the ghost of a boy in this orphanage property and investigating, you know, how did this boy die? And so it becomes like a ghost story, kind of a suspense horror film. But it's really mainly about these kids and this orphanage where they're staying. Fantastic. I mean, I enjoyed Pacific Rim. I enjoy Pacific Rim.

People weren't crazy about Pacific Rim, right? Did that split the critics and people thought that was a little out of his wheelhouse? Yeah, I mean, it was not, it was not one of his most beloved field. the first one did did pretty well and has a big cold following. It was followed by he did not direct the sequel. The sequel was not very well received. I didn't even know there was a sequel if I'm going. It's a big room uprising.

Michael B. Jordan's in it. It's not as good. I'll just say the shape of water to me is like the shape of water to me. Wow. You know, just poetic. A nightmare. It was great too.

It's John Boyega who's in Pacific room. Right. Good opening scene in Pacific right too. So there you have. But he said he, I told him like, listen, and make a top 10 list. He says he doesn't want to do that. What was his quote?

I only do top tens under pressure. I told him I buy the Blu-ray of every single one in his top 10 and I don't own a Blu-ray player. So I will support those directors. I think that's, I think it's because of this. Like the we all have this hyper competitive instinct. I mean, the Oscars you see it come out to. Those are meant to be celebrating movies, but it becomes this like cutthroat like,

that doesn't deserve it this. Well, like we're seeing it right now with everything everywhere all it wants. A delightful movie. that is now, it's causing all of these debates and arguments. Is it worthy of best picture? Should Michelle Yo get it instead of it? Should they have nominated Stephanie Sue instead of Jamie Lee Curtis? And it's like, these are supposed to be celebrations of movies that highlight great things to watch.

Not which ones the better film. Top gun maverick or you can't. It's a no win which is the better one for use. Exactly. It's a no win. What the other one? I haven't seen the other one yet. Everything everywhere all it went.

Which is, we should win best picture. I don't. No, no. This is how I. am. This is how I am. I like trashy action movies. Okay. Not exclusively. I would like Maverick a little better than everything everywhere all at once. But having said that, I would love to see that movie get its fires mainly for Michelle Yo, who's been amazing in movies for decades. She's incredible. And has never been in that category of A-list actresses who's given her own

projects and get award consideration. And she's been amazing for forever. So I'd love to see her win. I recommend people see everything everywhere. Oh, I like the movie. I recommend it. It's on my recommended list. I enjoyed it very much. And she's fantastic. I'm making my top time this too.

Kay Kwan, the guy who played short round and had disappeared in years and is now supporting actor. It's wonderful in it. Fantastic also. I would like to see in that film. Making these lists and making and issuing awards has always been a no-win game. It is a Kobayashi-Maru. But never more than in the age of social media where everyone's all of a sudden got an equal opinion. And like the desire to be enraged at Jason is what actually really astonished me about this.

Like enraged. Like it literally does not matter in the slightest. It should not matter to A.O. Scott, it should not matter to any filmmaker. And I mean, I say this with all due respect. Why do people give a shit what J-Cal says about your top 10 list? I can tell you why. I can tell you why this is so contentious. There is so little at stake.

that's why we're doubling down on this and we're going to watch every single film on Iowa Scouts top list. That's great. And today, because I am open-minded to him having a top-ten list. I am offended that the New York Times

calls it the best movies of 2022. We took the one that Molly was most interested in seeing and that I was most interested in seeing which is a cyberpunk sci-fi films, something that is in my wheelhouse. Yeah. This is of his top ten list, the one that would appeal most to me, just given genre.

I like indie films. I like sci-fi. I love indie sci-fi. I love cyberpunk. It's right in my wheelhouse. So let's get to it. Molly, you watched Neptune Frost. Yeah, I watched it last night.

It is described as a science fiction. romantic musical. It's directed by Saul Williams, who's a rapper and a poet. Yeah, and a musical. I think he does beats as well, like a musician, poet, spoken word artist, rapper, a lot of those kinds of things. Alongside Anisia You Zaman, it is the synopsis. It's a very, like, hard plot to describe, and it takes a lot of...

I think you could get there. I mean, no, you can do it, right? It takes a while to sort of review. feel like what's going on. Before we get into the film, that the creators of the film, and we'll pull up the tweets, also jumped in on,

they, they are, you don't know this, Molly, the director and creator of the films. What? They are also in now on the A.O. Scott controversy

and Jake, I'm talking on. I saw Saul Williams in games. Now, this is going to, whatever we say right now, I'm warning you, Molly,

when we clip it, we are going to at mention them, and they will, we'll see this. So I just, fair warning to everybody. Well, then good, because I watched it and I liked it. I thought it was terrific. Please. Terrific for us creators.

It's terrific. Feel free to watch this video. Let's just, I want, uh, let's go Molly first. You described it. Finish describing it. Yes, please finish describing it. It does take a while to understand effectively like what the plot is. So you have this, the synopsis from the internet is probably the best way to go.

A group of escaped miners, they mine this. metal element called Coltan, which is a big part of consumer electronics, forms an anti-colonialist computer hacker collective in the hilltops of Burundi. They soon attempt to takeover of the authoritarian regime that's exploiting the region's natural resources and its people. It is astound. It's like astoundingly visual. It's completely, it's just an act of pure creativity, the entire movie.

I found all the languages actually delightful. because it was really, it was like really fun to try to figure out when they'd switch and sometimes they'd be in French and I just am kind of like a linguist and I liked that. And it is sort of also this like beautiful love story. And then you know I'm there, you know I'm here for the like anti-consumerist message that's basically like you don't even care. You sit there with your iPhones and your internet and your Google and you have no interest in the people who suffer and die for this.

Okay. And what you're saying is it touched. on a lot of important themes, if I may summarize. It was very visual and artistic. It was mesmerizing. You cannot look away. Mesmerizing, great.

And also a little confusing came up in all the reviews I read because I went and said, what are the other critics think? And some of them were derogatory and how confusing it was. Other ones felt it was superficial. And then other people thought it was

God's gift to the world. This is a very polarizing film. Correct, Lon? I would say somewhat. I mean, I think like most established critics were like on the pro side. If you look at Rotten Tomatoes, this is like in the 80, 80% hugely positive reviews. Yeah, I think most critics are all bored. I would say for general

audiences, like, look, this is, I think nobody's arguing, this is a tougher nut to crack than like a Top Gun Maverick. It's experimental. It's taking big chances with with narrative choices. Like, it's not a clear throughline kind of story. And a lot of the dialogue is very sort of poetic, very sort of esoteric, kind of thoughtful. And I think that, But, you know, that could be a little alienating to a mainstream audience, but I think if you 96%, and even 75% on the audience score is very good for a movie that's this challenging. So I wouldn't say it's divisive. Well, and it's early days.

It's early days on the ratings. My prediction is those numbers will come down because when you have an art house hit like this, a Sundance circuit, I know it was a, I think it was a can. It was a can. But these independent films do extraordinary with critics. And then they tend to do much worse. It's not, as you're saying, LON. I don't think this is a movie that's ever going to reach, you know,

mainstream American audiences. I will speak for mainstream American audiences. They would hate it. But a percentage will, if you're open-minded, will like it. I don't think that's true. It turns out. If you give it 30, 40 minutes, you're going to be in for the most part. If you're an open-minded person who's open to these kinds of thoughtful experiments.

Okay. And that is the key. Now, Molly, if you rate it on a scale of one to 10, I'm like, I am not. I'm going to be very, you're going to be, I think you might be surprised. Did you seriously say no eights? No eights. You can't do half points.

Why can't you do eights? What's the matter of the eights? Because that's the cowards swore. Anybody who wants to give a rating and they don't want to take a position does eight because you can't, it's not saying I love it. Nine means you love it. Seven means you appreciate it, but it's not a nine. So I'll let you do a half point.

But I will not let an eight on this program for movie ratings of these AOCuts. So please play along because I know you're going eight. I was going to go. I was definitely going to go eight. Because it's, I'm not calling you a coward here. It's the safe rating. It's the safe rating. You don't want to insult anybody so you go eight.

Nobody feels bad about an eight. But you know if you give it a seven that might make people feel bad and you know you can't give it a nine. Give me your rating. Seven and a half. Okay. Lon. I'm a nine. I might be a nine.

point five, honestly. Wow. You're deranged, but okay. But that's exactly it's a beautiful. By the end of this movie. Blan gets art. Blan is more of an artistic human. Exactly.

Gradual start. Like for the first 15, 20 minutes, you got to kind of give you, you got to meet the filmmakers halfway. You got to be like, okay, I'm investing. Very generous of you. You got to invest in my attention. But by the time you get to the halfway point, when the musical sort of sequences start to kick it with some of these fantasy sequences start to kick it when he meets the wheel man,

and there's a lot of sort of like neon, black light, like weird effects and stuff. It gets very cool. And I thought it was really fascinated by the last half hour. It is mesmerizing. It is just like Molly represents. Yes. Okay.

Molly represents the mass audience. She gives it seven and a half. Lon, you represent the critics corner. You give it a nine. Completely accurate. Yeah. We actually mirror rotten tomatoes directly.

Very, very close. Directly. Yeah. This feels like exactly the kind of movie. I want to hear a guy like A.O. Scott recommend. It's something thoughtful I probably wouldn't have gotten to see on my own. But now that I read about it and hear about it, I think it's great.

Now here comes, Jake Hal. There's no red flags to be had here. Everybody will laugh. Everyone's just, everybody here. I'm tense stuff. Everybody's very tense. He's making his delighted face and that always makes me a little nervous. Like, what's he so happy about?

I enjoy being able to show my face in public. I am also a fan that you don't know this. I am actually a fan of experimental cinema. Let's just take a point. I knew this. Okay. All right. Let's hear it.

Lay it on us. Okay, Neptune Frost. This is J. Cowell's review. I haven't edited this yet. This is from immediately after watching it last night. A Neptune Frost is a cyberpunk experimental film that drifts into a musical, or perhaps better said, TikTok-length music videos.

The story is incomprehensible much, heck, maybe most of the time, with dialogue that switches from poetic to pretentious, incredibly created with costumes, visuals, and ambient music and sounds that feel like Burning Man and Cyberpunk installation I've seen at raves. It makes no sense while hitting on important themes. Having little plot, but after a slow start, will pull in most viewers. Could have gone more music and been a rock opera like Tommy or The Wall. or an indie cyberpunk indie film.

But that was not the art tour's direction. Happy they made the film. I am happy they got the recognition. And while it might be the greatest experimental film of the year, it is not a top 10 film of the year for me. For you. For me. For you.

Yeah. Good ad. It is a hypnotic, trippy, cyberpunk, with 90s graphics that I found delightfully intriguing. There you go. Oh my God, look at you. I'm a writer. That's a great review.

You are a writer. If I were going to a write review, that's exactly what I would have said. I think that's just about right on. I mean, I don't agree. I don't think it's that incomprehensible. I think for a while it's a little confusing. But I think that by the halfway point, once the sort of main characters that were watching,

Meta Luzza and Neptune. Once they've sort of met up with the others at the camp, don't give any spoilers, please. I think from there on, it follows a pretty followable rise and fall, like this collective comes together. They've got these elaborate plants, but then the people are onto them,

and there's an infiltrator. There's a story. There's a story. There's no spoilers, but there is a story. I want to commend the filmmakers. I want to congratulate the filmmakers. This is a true piece of art. I think six or seven Americans will turn it off after 20 minutes.

I think the three or four who don't and who practice some patience and sit in there a movie theater with their phones turned off, I think of those, let's say I think seven of 10 Americans, and I'm talking about just mainstream Americans, 10 out of 10 will love Maverick. Seven out of 10 will turn this film off regrettably after 30 minutes because it will move too slow and be too confusing for them. For the seven, and then the three who make it through will be done it. For the seven, of those seven, if they stick it out, I think another three will like it. So I think six out of ten Americans would actually like this film, which means the filmmakers could have done a better job in editing or could have got better advice in the beginning.

It's not their job to change their vision to meet people who are closed-minded about movies halfway. Is this their first film? Is it their first film? I believe it is. I believe it. Okay. So this is a first film. Like many first films, Lon, the filmmakers, need to get better at editing and tighten it up and maybe work a little on dial out or plot. It's not a perfect film. But it is a film worth seeing. It is a film worth your consideration.

There you go. I think that's, I think that's a good. That's a, that's a good. It's not number two. But the goal of like an artist is not 100% of a hundred percent. Right. A hundred percent approval. To make a statement and then you can meet the mirror and enjoy it and get something out of it or not.

And look, if there are people out there who they watch 15 minutes of this and it's too much for them and they don't get it and they don't want to turn it up. Fine. It's not for them. That's up to you. That's not a statement on the movie or you as a person. Not everything is for everybody. I think that's the luxury of art. I actually think that is the luxury and difference. And that is why there is such a phrase as mainstream. Because mainstream is separate from.

Right. Here's what else. Experimental and from high art. I think this is exactly why these kinds of lists exist. Because none of the three of us would have probably watched this if it wasn't on A. I just also would like to state that my review having read A.O. Scots review

after reading mine, I wrote a better review. That's it. So to A.O. Scott. I had to get that in there. I am a better writer and critic. I'm saying it right now. You can call me tech, ding, dofist, whatever you want. I will.

A hundred percent of Americans reading my review or A.O. Scots, take our names off of it. We'll prefer my review. I'm going to be in the comments calling you a. Cannes stop. You can't stop. I'm a better film critic coming out of the gate. Dink, dude, wow. Decades of experience.

Troll. Troll. Don't engage one. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage one. What's this? What's this?

Another tweet? What's this one? No. Same tweet. That's all. That's just Nick Dink Dufus again. That's just Nick Trull. I wanted to hear the filmmakers.

And I would like to. Oh. This is going to be crazy. I heard from the Austin Chronicle who was very critical of me, not just you both. Okay. Did he actually watch the conversation? I don't know.

I shouldn't have even been in the video with you. They should listen to our conversation and they should listen to this conversation. Okay. Thank you for coming on here and putting your reputation at risk week after we. We appreciate you, bro. No, really. Okay. I'm just going to let people know that I am fans of these filmmakers and I think they have

great potential. They did this as a Kickstarter. Yeah, that's true. and shot in 27 days. I want to applaud. It's epic scale. There's a lot, there's a lot visually going on

in what's deceptively a simple kind of story. From a cinematic troll, I would like to say, I am in awe of what they created in such a short period of time. And I don't know the budget, but I don't think this is more than a million dollars because it certainly doesn't.

much less. This looks like 250K. I mean, they made art and it was compelling enough with graphics that were done

obviously without industrial light magic. I mean, these are graphics done on a laptop, obviously. And they, but they made you want to keep watching

when you got past 34 minutes. Here's one I want to see. I want to see them get a budget. I want to see somebody give these work tours a button.

And I cannot wait to see their second or third film when they have a budget, and perhaps, if it is their want, they patched the audience with something exciting

to latch on to in the first 20 minutes in the way Lucas, Spielberg, Scorsese, just any of the other mainstream filmmakers do, Tom Cruise,

you know, whoever, I want to see what they can do with a budget and if they capture audiences early. If they go, or tour for their careers, obviously that's for them. Great.

You know, my son and I talk about this all the time. My son and I talk about this all the time, the first album. My son's got really into rap. No, no, no. The first album is always the best. Because the first album is the least produced. Okay. And the most authentic.

And as they go throughout time, they get more and more produced and you start to get like more auto tune and more layers in the background. Like, they don't have to. I think this is sometimes true. It's not always true. Yeah, and you may be right. Like they, they, they, they, they sort of their third or fourth down becomes like the notion statement, like, Land, Lund, Lund, don't get pedantic on me here.

Take my larger point. Okay. My larger point is that these guys don't have to do that. Right. Right. Lofi is a musical style, or I'm sorry, a movie making style that's very specific. And they had a small budget. Like, they don't have to.

They could be, they have to become label sellouts. Mix tapes, exactly. Yes. Does this apply? Does Molly's point apply to filmmakers line? I was always of the thinking that the sequel, often the second of the sequels is better than the original Terminator 2 coming to mind. If Breastracks back coming to mind for somebody sits, but I know that's not always. But let me ask it another way. Like for a director, and I think, Molly, your point is some people like the rawness and then other people like the polish, right? Okay, I get it. There's a breakthrough period. I don't think it's usually. First films are usually seen just like, as you said, as sort of, you know, getting your feet, sort of making your sort of statement. And then it's the second, third, fourth films that become the breakthrough. I think, like, Wes Anderson would be a good example. Like, Bottle Rocket, the first movie, everybody was like, who's this kid? This is funny.

What's this weird thing? But then Rushmore and Royal Tennen bombs were the second and third film. They're really cemented, this is a Wes Anderson film. Tarantino, same thing. Reservoir Dogs. huge breakthrough. Who is this guy? This is incredible,

but it's Pulp Fiction, the second film that became the bedrock. This is what a Quentin Tarantino film is. What do you like better? Pulp Fiction or Reservoir, Molly? Rate them. Which one? You have to watch it tonight.

Which one would you want to watch Pulpiction? But I mean, to think about Tarantino is a guy who really kind of even built like I think, you know, maybe Django and Glorious Bastards, maybe his best movie.

Like he only got sort of better with AIDS. in some ways. It's once upon in time in Hollywood for me. Like, he's one of those

guys that you go to all the way to produce. Well, I know, I say, yeah, I got to think about my rankings.

Okay. Now, let's do. If you give me the whole, those are, giving me the whole thing to choose from then, yes. I'm actually,

this is a very interesting experiment. No, let's do, have you seen Bada. And Jackie Brown was his follow-up I have seen by the record, which may be his best

one on one. And you've also seen Rushmore and Tannabounds, I take it? Mm-hmm. Okay, so give me your ranking, Molly. Then, Lon, I want yours.

Yeah, 1, 2, 3 is the order. Now, give me the ranking. Molly Wood's ranking of those films. God, it's been a really long time since I saw Rushmore. So I'm just going to put that third because I can't remember it very well. And then I'm going to go. I'm going to actually go Bottle Rocket, Tannenbaum's Rushmore. One, three, two.

Go ahead. Lon, I'll give you the correct ranking after L. My favorite. I go Rushmore, Tenenbombs, bottle rocket. Because it's a fun comedy, but it really, like, his style kind of got solidified later. Lawn, it came close. The correct order is 2-1-3, like the area code, Los Angeles. Okay.

I think it's that are P.T. Anderson's got an amazing. Okay, well, do that. Let's do that. His first movie was Hard 8 with Philip Baker Hall at John C. Riley, which is great. Kind of a minor key character study. His second film ever was Boogie Nights. Imagine going from Hard 8 immediately into Boogie Nights. This epic scale, like, 10 times better.

A hundred times better. What a leap for your, for your. I mean, I like heart eight a lot, but that leap is an all time. Pull it up on IMDB. Let's get that one third fourth and fifth. Was it, I think Punch Drunk Love was the, oh no, Magnolia was the follow up to Boogie Nikes. I rewatched it recently on your recommendation. Magnolia stands up.

I mean, he just went on to do, I mean, after they're all bangers after Bucky Nights. Because then it's punched drunk love. That it's the master. That is their won't be blood. I mean, it just doesn't stop Phantom Thread, inherent vice. They're all great. For me, it's the master. There will be blood.

There will be blood. And then Boogie Nights. Those are my three favorite. And every time I switch my one and two with him, because if I see the master and then I see there will be blood, I go there will be blood. And when I see the master, I switch it. It's just nonstop. I mean, that's that guy. Are you a fan?

I didn't love licorice pizza as much, but I like all the others. I've seen boogie nights and magnolia, which I love. The master is one of the greatest pieces of cinema top ten for me. All right. Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix. And Amy Adams is also fantastic at that. And Amy Annens is just on par. Yeah, they just didn't give her enough of a role.

I was a little, she could have used more time, I think. She's great. She's great there. It kind of ran a note, too, but Magnolia is like the return of Tom Cruise. Remember he was just, like, gone for a while all young and sweaty? And then all of a sudden he showed back up in Magnolia, like looking rugged and like, he can really bring it if you give him the right character. And Frank T.J. Mackie, one of his all-time great, you know, creation is like less

Grossman in Tropist Thunder. Like, people don't remember Tom Cruise can do that until you give him a chance to do it. Yeah, they got to, he's got to become, you know, like a, he's got to be in like more ensemble films as things you don't expect. I love Ethan Hunt. If he wants to keep being Ethan Hunt, that's fine with me too. Oh, forever. Please be.

You know, Pete Maverick Mitchell. These are great characters. But he can also play. He really can. Very different other notes if you throw him a different kind of script. May I just a final statement here? this is a message to Neptune Frost's filmmakers. I wish you great success.

Thank you. That's great. If you do another GoFundMe, Kickstarter rather, I will be the first to put a non-insignificant donation and or investment in this film. I don't invest in films, but I will give a non-insignificant donation slash investment. I am a fan of the filmmakers.

And to A.O. Scott, your list is terrible. I'm a better writer. But thank you for introducing me to, if you had made this list, A.O. Scott's best films of the year, I thank you. There you go. What are, what's our next hit, by the way? Amazing. I know, what are we going to watch next? I will say Mr. Bachman in his class is currently streaming on movie,

which I just recently signed up for movie. Oh, I loved Tar. The Tarr's the other one I wrote down too. Also, isn't TAR also of the moment in terms of cancel culture, etc? I mean, there's more to it than that. There's one big scene that is about her kind of bickering about woke culture with a student at Juilliard. So that is there. And it is kind of a story of a cancellation in some ways.

But there's a lot more. That's oversimplifying. It's Cape Blanchet. It's Cape Blanchet. Cape Blanchet plays a world-class composer and conductor. I'm there for her. Like a legendary, the conductor of the Berlin Orchestra, who's like a legendary conductor, and it is about this pivotal moment in her life and career where there's scandals and

controversies, but it's also about her personal life and what she's going through it. It sort of takes it from a lot of different levels. Cape Blanchett, absolutely incredible, a fantastic script. Great cinematography. As we wrap. As we wrap. As we wrap. can we get your commentary on on what has happened in the DC universe?

Oh my goodness. Molly and I will step back. It makes total. I think we basically are starting to get the first real indications of what new DC studios heads Peter Safford and James Gunn are planning. And from what it sounds like so far, it is a page one reset. But we don't have final confirmation about everything yet, but we already knew that Wonder Woman 3 looks like it's done.

Gal Gadot looks like she's done being our Wonder Woman. We already knew that. Now they seem to confirm Henry Cavill is done being Superman. James Gunn is now at work on a script about a young Clark Kent that's going to reboot the character and we're going to get a younger Clarkin who's already, it's not Smallville. He's already Superman. But we're starting out at the beginning of his Superman career when he's still like a cub reporter at the Daily Planet.

So it'll be a reboot on Superman, new actor. We don't have final word, but it's starting to sound like once we're done with the current, you know, they've got a few banked movies. They've got this Flash movie with Ezra Miller. They've got Aquaman 2 with Jason Mamoa. They've got Shazam, too, with Zachary Levi. They've got this Blue Beetle film that was going to be for HBO Max, but they're now putting in theaters. Once that's done by 2023, early 2024, I think conventional wisdom is we're done with the entire Snyder-versy,

line up all of those actors and we're going to get a new DC universe in terms of the stars and rebooted versions. Molly, what are you most disappointed in this announcement? Oh, Wonder Woman for sure. Yeah, me too. But also, if they're going to can cavil as Superman, can he come back to the Witcher? I'm just saying inquiring moms want to know. The inquiring.

At least you can say another word that is moms is the first of the acronym. The word is, there's no confirmation on any of this. rumor is that Cabell wanted out of the Witcher for reasons. Not related. Home's love Henry. Oh, sure. Mom's love. Is that like a divorce moms look at him as like second husband material or second boyfriend

like boyfriend and rebound material? I'm pretty sure this is a pan mom. I think this is all mom. And a lot of men too. And a lot of men too. Oh, yeah. A lot of. A lot of.

A lot of different people. A lot of different. He has got appeal. Because he's got, he's got, you know, he's got the traditional like he's a big, you know, good looking, handsome, traditional looking guy, but he's also a huge nerd. Like, he loves Warhammer and collecting action figures and

video games. And so I think that's a lot of appeal for a lot of people out there, too. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, he seems like me, like a good, a cool guy to hang out with in addition to being a hot. It's totally happening. We are just off the rails right now. Just off the rails. Sorry, Lexlon. I will just say, I am intrigued

by the Superman pitch. And I think we said go young. Yeah. With the, with the reboot and get the Gen Zs, the millennials and the Gen Zs on board. If they get a 25 year old Superman to go with Robert Patterson, that thing's going to be explosive. It's not for us.

It's for the 20-year-olds for the next audience. The internet wants Elvis star. Austin Butler, who was just Elvis in Baz Luhrman's Elvis movie this year and getting a lot of Oscar buzz. A lot of people are like, and he's going to be Fade Ralfa in Doom, too, by the way. Great hair. He's taking over

for Sting's role in the second Dune movie. Look out for that. Great hair. This kid's 100% baby Superman. So they're saying this guy would be our next, our next superman. And who are they saying would be the young Wonder Woman? I haven't seen a lot of speculation out there yet. It was yesterday when they announced Cabell's not coming back as Superman.

Immediately Twitter blew up with, oh, it should be Austin Butler taking home. But no one cares about the lady, so no one even bothered with Wonder Woman. God. It should be that. There's not another Wonder Woman project like hitting the ground running right now. Fair, fair. We're sort of waiting for the next. Yeah.

But no, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. Sadly, no. That girl from Wednesday. That should be the next Wonder Woman. General Saturday? She could do it, sure. Too young, too small.

Doesn't you have to be an Amazon? You need somebody. When they remember, everybody was like she's too skinny because we all knew her from the Fast-of-Purious movies. Her powers are, she's a demigod. She doesn't need to work out. She's supposed to be taller than Batman in the... I mean, yeah, like, traditionally, Amazon's or, you know, they're athletic.

Who was the woman from House of Dragon? That's what Nagasen say in too, right, Millie Alcock? Millie Alcock's the younger one. Emma Darcy's the older Renera. I kind of like Millie Alcock has a wild card. She's very young. I'm kind of like both. If I'm being honest, either of those could work because they're both just strong.

I think she's 22. That's not that young. She could be a young guy. She could do this. I can see this. Yeah, I could see it. It's not. I want to see pictures of her when she's not in Game of Thrones to make my decision in casting. Right. Well, they did. They made her look a little younger so that it would distinguish her from Emma Jarn.

She looked like she was 18, 17 years old in that thing. Yeah. Right. Okay. Here we go. Thanks for we'll see you next week. And to A.O. Scott, I'm coming for your job. Okay. I'm going to read my review. Nothing but respect for me. I think I'll go on lots being clear. I'm going to get away this thing. I'm out. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. This has been Thursday. Molly. Yeah. great job on your movie It's great review The show is great this week

I got Tahoe Energy I got big Tahoe Energy Big Tijuana Energy B Tee I got out two days Two hours a day Seven runs a day I just warm myself up

I just got a ton of work I'm doing launch fund Four meetings going very well I got a lot of work I got a lot of show to do But I got a couple of runs And feeling great It's okay

You gotta do it You need balance I feel good Look at that guy going by That's just should be me There he goes So amazing If you want to see the view from my studio

And run right out, right? I could do that actually That'd be hilarious But yes, this is the ski run behind me And this is not a fake background That's making it. All right, great job, everybody. Thanks to our producers who are

Running a tight ship suddenly. Very nicely done, everybody. I really like the production here. Good job. We'll see it tomorrow. Bye-bye.