This Week in Startups - OpenAI and Google race to launch multimodal LLM plus AI demos with Sunny Madra | E1811

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

This Week in Startups is brought to you by… Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website! Go to Squarespace.com/TWIST for a free trial. When you’re ready to launch, use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. OpenPhone. Create business phone numbers for you and your team that work through an app on your smartphone or desktop. TWiST listeners can get an extra 20% off any plan for your first 6 months at openphone.com/twist Fitbod. Tired of doing the same workouts at the gym? Fitbod will build you personalized workouts that help you progress with every set. Get 25% off your subscription or try out the app for FREE when you sign up now at fitbod.me/TWIST. * Today’s show: Sunny Madra joins Jason to discuss Sunny’s All-In Summit experience (1:34), OpenAI’s race to beat Google in launching the first multimodal LLM (9:07), whether generative AI needs a UI shift (33:00), and much more! * Time stamps: (0:00) Sunny Madra joins Jason (1:34) All-In Summit 2023 recap and Sunny’s experience (7:44) Squarespace - Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://Squarespace.com/TWIST (9:07) OpenAI’s race to beat Google in launching the first multimodal LLM (14:42) Experiences with image-generating AI and Midjourney's interface (19:23) The culture at Apple and where risk aversion sets them back (22:32) OpenPhone - Get 20% off your first six months at https://openphone.com/twist (24:03) Google’s advantages and chances against OpenAI in multimodal LLMs (31:30) Fitbod - Get 25% off at https://fitbod.me/twist (33:00) UI developments and what sets multimodal LLMs apart (44:22) ChatGPT Enterprise (45:37) Sunny demos Canva’s ChatGPT plugin (55:00) Code LLaMa's potential and Falcon 180B’s unique features (59:41) Sunny demos Headshots AI * Follow Sunny: https://twitter.com/sundeep * Check out Headshots AI: https://headshots-starter.vercel.app/overview Check out Falcon 180B: https://falconllm.tii.ae/ * Read LAUNCH Fund 4 Deal Memo: https://www.launch.co/four Apply for Funding: https://www.launch.co/apply Buy ANGEL: https://www.angelthebook.com Great recent interviews: Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis * Follow Jason: Twitter: https://twitter.com/jason Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis * Follow TWiST: Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin * Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast

You know what's really interesting is Zillow is gone. Oh, Zillow took theirs off. Yeah. Because it was so bad. Well, I thought it was like, again, heading in the right direction. But I think it's sort of this, you know, fear of chat GPT becoming like the apex aggregator. And so if everyone is just going there and searching for things and you're just a data source, then your business has less value. Well, you lose the interface.

You lose the customer relationship. I mean, that really is why. people should not do these plugins. Because you don't have the email of the person. You don't know why they're searching this. They can be scraping your data. And you just gave up any monetization. This week in startups is brought to you by Squarespace.

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Get 25% off your subscription or try out the app for free when you. you sign up now at FitBod.me slash twist. All right, everybody, welcome back to this week in startups. We're back. What an incredible week at the All-In Summit last week. And we're back to our regularly scheduled programming. First up, Sunny Madra, Sandit Madra, is back to do a bunch of AI demos. Welcome back, Sunny.

Good to be back. Congrats on the summit. It was incredible. I would say, look, every single speaker could have been a keynote speaker. So it was hit after hit after hit. Got it. And it was a lot of incredible content, good conversations. I liked how you guys were out there with every single speaker.

And, you know, there's probably four to six viral videos that will come from it. Because the content was really incredible from Dalio to Gurley. to grandma's. I mean, yeah. And, you know, the only thing I would say is, um, you need to have more people there. I think. And the people there were like, can we have less people? It's like, whoever got in, who wants less people, whoever didn't get in wants more people. Funny how that happens. Well, 1800 was, you know, I don't want to say it's unruly, but it's, you're moving a lot of people around. I mean, it's not easy. And so we are going to have a all in, board meeting in a week and just sort of debrief on what was great about the event, what could be improved.

But the speakers and the content were world class. I think there was only one speaker when it wasn't all three of us, which was Wolfram Alpha. Yeah. And he hung out the whole conference. It was really interesting to see the speakers hang out the whole conference because they wanted to hear each other. So congratulations to Freiburg, who programmed, I think, 85% of the content. I think the other besties like brought one or two speakers each, maybe. So it was, yeah, I really like more people to be able to come. I think there's two different ways to go with it. One is, I think we're just going to do one type of ticket next year and not have like general admission versus VIP and then scholarships. Because people just start comparing who's got a better seat.

It's like, you know, like on an airplane. Oh, first class seat. How much different is it than sitting in coach and it's our extra leg room? It's just like it's confusing for people. and like then some people are like, I would have rather been in coach and be like, I don't want to be in coach. I want to be in the first class.

Like everybody's different, you know? So I think we'll, we'll tighten that up a little bit. Parties were great. People had a good time. Can I share one image with you both that I think encapsulates all in summit more than anything?

Okay. We can take a little risk here, but okay. It's great. That's Stephen Wolfram, from Wolfram Alpha. I got to always get that right. Stephen Wolfram.

And he is at side the rave, the Blade Runner rave. with like 30 people, 40 people around him while like Grimes is on stage tearing it up. It was a pretty crazy final night party and the peer party. People had a lot of fun. We took over the Santa Monica Pier.

I mean, it is hard to throw a party for 1,800 people. Let me tell you something. The number of locations gets really small when you get close to 1,000 people that you can have an event. And your choices are, find a raw canvas. Like we literally used a movie,

studio. Yep. We used a giant hall, Majestic downtown, which was okay, and then the entire pier. And you can't, like,

even a hotel, like if you want to use the Beverly Hilton or something like that and have like bad food, you know, I'm not dissing them, but like, you know, chicken,

you know, like conference chicken, like three course, bad salad, bad chicken, bad dessert. You want to do something like that, like,

it's going to cost a fortune and they can only fit a thousand people. And then everybody's going to, you know, like have to sit at cheesy round wedding tables. I hate that. So we went in a different direction, but L.A. adds a layer of difficulty as well because of traffic. So we didn't want people to be in their car for an hour. It was, I think, 20 minutes

drive to each party maybe. Depending on where you stay at 20 to 30 minutes to get to each party. So that was pretty good. Miami was... Yeah, kudos. Yeah, kudos to you guys. And last year was the first one, which is incredible, uplifted it this year. I think next year's going to be really hard.

I think it was, you know, Chmachas is trying to take charge of next year's one. So we'll see how that comes together because, you know, it gets harder and harder. But it's a good challenge because it's better for all the listeners, it's better for all the fans. He doesn't want to do the big one. He wants to do like a 50 person or a 100 person, you know, small retreat, invite only kind of situation. So I told them like maybe that that's the retreat, all in retreat. and then there's All in Summit. Summit, yeah.

One's like a think tank where people are kind of like the people who are on the stage are getting together to talk and do Illuminati shit. And then there's like All in Summit, which I think we could do it in Vegas, New York, in a theater.

There's a category of spaces like theaters that are generally four to six thousand people. You think about like Radio City Music Hall, the beacon in New York, the theater at Madison Square Garden, all of those, they tend to be 5,000 seats. Some of them go as high as like seven or eight. But then you could invite a large number of people

to experience the content, and then you'd maybe give, you'd maybe separate out the dinners and the parties where that would be like an upcharge or you could go to it if you wanted to, but there were a certain number of tickets, you know? Because again, you're basically talking about taking over a mega club or something

or having to take over Central Parks, you know, Great Lawn or something. It just gets nuts. Everything gets nuts at the, at that scale. So we'll see. I'm excited. I'm excited. I mean, I spent $2.5 million on three parties. That was pretty good. Yeah.

So a lot of money to spend on parties, but I think it was worth it. I think it was worth it for me. I thought it was a lot of fun. We had a great time, I think. Yeah. If your landing page is terrible. I'm out, right? Most consumers are. It's 2023. You can't have an ugly website. Stop selling for okay or good and have great. and great means you're using Squarespace. It's out of the box, beautiful.

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So there's a lot in the news where we took a little bit of time off because we had that. And I have literally had a call today with some of my older people. You know, I got some older people in my organization. I said, listen. Okay. The three of us are over 150 years old combined.

I need all the old dogs learning new tricks because they were asking me like, what publications should we promote this Cloud Kitchen's incubator we're doing too?

And I said, did you ask ChatGPT yet? Before we ever get on the phone, ask Chat Chappetee six ways to Sunday, ask Bard, and you'll saw the problem, which is actually how I got a lot of the party planners

and party ideas is I sit in chat GPT and Pinterest and I have both windows open and YouTube and I just start brainstorming ideas. and people were asking me my process and I'm like, what would be good themes at a cyberpunk party? What would be interesting food to serve on a pier?

You know, what movies in the 80s and 90s represented surf culture? You just, instead of doing Google searches, it all returns everything to me in a table. Yeah. And I move like probably three or four,

five times faster, which is bonkers. But there were some news out here. There are some news out here about open AI going multi-modal, multi-modal, multimol-l. Now, so I think

this is the first time a lot of people are going to be hearing about this. So let's talk about OpenAI racing to beat Google to launch the first

multimodal L-LM. What does this mean? Explain it to everybody as if they're five-year-olds. Yeah, so it's the next evolution. So if you think about our primary interaction mode with all the different

LLMs today, it's text. And so you give it text like you were talking about and it gives answers back to you. What multimodal means is your ability to give it any type of input. It could be speech, it could be video, it could be pictures, it could be a combination of those things, right? So that's the next iteration in these LLMs where, because, you know, today it's been separated out. you know, you sort of have, you know, Dolly or Mid Journey for images, right? You have Open AI, GPT4 for text. And so when it all kind of comes together into a single platform and a single model,

that that's what, you know, people are racing towards now. So because today, if you think about what's happening is people are fracturing. There's some folks doing stuff with text, some folks doing stuff with audio, some folks doing stuff. And not, no, there's not one clear leader across all of them. and what I guess the leaders are all trying to race towards is they want to become the single place where people go to to do all their LLM related activities.

Which makes sense. You know, multimodal from the word modality, modality in this case refers to, you know, like how something is expressed, right? And it could be input, but it could also be output. So when you say multimodality, you could draw on a piece of paper, take a picture of what you want an app to look like or draw it on the screen.

You know, like there are little drawing tools you can use on your desktop. And you draw something. And then you say, so you could have two modalities at the same time, I could draw it and then I could type in or say, make this into a modern looking iOS app. Yep.

And then now it's got a sketch of what looks like an e-commerce site. Plus it's, and then the output on the modality could be code. It could be images. It could be wireframes. So when we start thinking about modality, I think I don't know what they're referring to

if it's just input or if it's also output. Because that's where it's both. And so this requires the LLM to really have an understanding of what the user wants and how to interpret it, I guess normalize it. So an image turning into words, sounds turning into words,

code turning into words, there already are words, I guess. And then the output, you guess you would have to specify because you could say, I'm going to draw something, make this into a techno track. I mean,

now we're starting to get really weird. I'd draw an image of a bulldog with a bunch of stars and flowers around it, and I say, make this into an electronic dance track, make this into some like, you know, house party music. is like, okay, I'm going to interpret a bulldog with flowers around it into a dance track.

Is that what we're talking about here? I think that's like the stretch case. But yeah, I think the idea is to allow people to interact with these systems in any way they want to. So maybe it's more for the image case that you're talking about that. But like, you know, it comes down to its interpretation, right? And if it's able to interpret what you're saying and kind of glean from that, you know, what that music may relate to the image that you've drawn.

And based on its training data, how can it come up with it? And so it's a much harder use case. I think that's why we haven't, we didn't see it up front. It's easier to predict text from text and music for music. But, you know, image to music is really fascinating. I hadn't thought about that one. But why not? I think it's, yeah.

going to be crazy. And I'll be honest, I haven't really used any of the image, because I don't work in images all that often. I really haven't worked in those generative space because they're all very distinct. And they work in like, doesn't one of them work with the interface being Discord?

Yeah, mid-Journey. Yeah, and I'm like, what are you guys doing? This reminds me of crypto all over again. Like, Mid-Journey. should the interface for Mid Journey should not be Discord. It should be, I mean, I guess it's clever in some ways, but it should just be like

a chat interface. I think it allowed them to go really fast and basically have a command line interface that wasn't your terminal, right? And so, you know, the interface to MidJourney is really powerful because like in your command line, you can give it, you know, types of different flags, and it creates lots of, that gives you lots of

flexibility and they didn't have to go and recreate that interface from scratch. And I, you know, I think I've heard it may already even exist, but Mid Journey, I think, is pushing to have like a consumer facing interface, sort of along the lines of what you're talking about. Yeah, that's got to be, uh, yeah, that's got to be available soon, right? Yeah. So the, the edge was that, you know, by putting it in Discord, there's like a natural community

effects there because, you know, Discord is, you know, think about it, just like a giant Slack channel or, you know, go back to IRC or something like that. So when you're in there, you have communities of you can say cool stuff, people shared, you can comment on things, you don't have to build out all the social and chat features, right?

So day one, mid-Journey, if you're in the Discord for Mid-Journey, I can even pull it up if we want to look through it. Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, sure, pull it up. I mean, the brainstorming is kind of interesting to me because what happens is just, I'll just take party planning as about one concept. In year zero,

this first year of AI, it helped me find venues, it helped put them in tables, it helped me find ideas, it helped me come up with ideas. And it helped me find venues and come, find party planners, and then brainstorm ideas. But I found myself going back to the 1.0 mentality, which was not talking to an AI, but, you know, doing Google searches, clicking on image, the image tab in Google, going to Pinterest and just typing in, like, ideas for seafood at a party was one of the things I was doing. I wanted to have seafood, right? And I stumbled upon people who were shucking oysters. You, they walk around a party with buckets on either side of their belt and the buckets have oysters in them. They shuck an oyster. They put some, you know, minette on it or whatever those

things are. And they hand it to you, and you have an oyster and you throw it in the other bucket. It's kind of cool, right? People walking around shucking fresh oysters for people. Yeah, of course. It was kind of like a fun, interesting. You never saw a thing. I had people making craps, whatever. but I would really like to be able to take a picture of a venue and say, you know, give me some ideas to make this like James Bond or Blade Runner and then make a list of rental firms that have these items, right? That would have been really cool. And, you know, that feels like what this multimodal mode is going to do.

I'll be able to input an image, say something. I still don't understand why Chat, GPT4 doesn't have a. a talking interface yet. It seems so de minimis to build. It actually does on the app. If you use the app, it does. Within the app itself, like the iOS app or the Android app, it has like an audio button so you can just chat with it.

Yeah. Does that work with your AirPods in in a Hey Siri kind of way? I don't think there's like a trigger like Hey Siri. Yeah. You know, if you put it on your home screen or something like that, you can do it. See, that's what I'm trying to, you know, this is what happens when they lock down the iPhone so much. Yeah.

On an Android, I'm sure. somebody can jail break this in 10 seconds, but I want to have, I want to say, hey, chat GPT, uh, with my AirPods in, with my phone in my pocket and just say,

what are the three best sushi restaurants around me that have a reservation for two? Yeah. And read me the top, read me the top three dishes from each and not take my AirPods out. Yeah. But I guess, I guess maybe chat GPT mobile does that,

but you have to click on the mic button. And that really is, I know this sounds stupid. What do you think about user design, Sonny? The fact that you have to click on a button and take your phone out is friction. I want to leave these AirPods in all day and just be talking to it. So somebody take on a memo.

I think we'll see it. I think we'll see it soon. Is Apple going to catch up? No. No. They're just too far behind. They're going to miss the entire AI wave after they had Siri out first. I don't think it's far behind, but I think in order to be a leading player in this,

you have to take risk. And if you think about everything Apple does, just look at the last four iPhones. Like, they've really become super risk averse. And so if you're going to really play in the LLM space, you're going to be subject. And it's even affecting everyone outside of,

you know, open AI. You have to take a lot of risk because it's going to produce responses that have hallucinations in them, all the stuff that we've talked about. So I think given their corporate culture, given, I don't know if you saw the mother,

the mother nature kind of thing. What was your take on that? I'm curious. It's like a big misread of society and where we're at and where they're at and just it shows what's happened

to the culture of Apple. It's kind of crazy. I saw this excellent tweet that said, imagine you took that to Steve Jobs and said, hey, we're going to put this in like a keynote release

of a big product of ours. Right. He would be like, what product is this? Yes. You're talking about recycling. Yes. Which is important and valid, but this is what we're spending our time on is not what the device can do.

What's the magical component or upgrade to your device? What's it going to enable you to do? But, hey, you can feel less sad about consuming this. Correct. Yeah. See, I like it. I like some aspects of it as something to release not during a keynote. So I think the context here of, hey, we're doing a keynote, look at all these new features.

If they had 50 new features and that was like the last thing they showed, and by the way, all these new features, we want to just let you know. A lot of companies screwed up the environment. We're trying to do our best. We know that you're going to buy these devices every three or four years. Some of you buy it every year. We just want to let you know, you don't have to feel guilty. We're going to be zero waste. And we hear you on the packaging.

Yeah. Less packaging. Nobody wants to have plastic, you know, everywhere. We're selling a lot of these things. Like, there's a way to do it that isn't so preaching. Apple.com slash recycling. Go check it out. That would be a great way to do it.

Or you could just say, hey, here's the tonnage. You know, just so you know, we sell a billion devices. And if we have this much, so just so you know, when you get your phone, it's going to be in a really small package. We know you love unboxing. But look, if we make the package this big, when you unbox it, this is the number of trees.

If we make it smaller and we hand, I mean, imagine if Apple handed you the phone from a stack of them in a store in a sleeve. It's just like in a perfect sleeve, a paper sleeve.

And there was just a stack of them. And they just slide one off the shelves. I mean, that's what we all want. We don't want any packaging. Give me the damn device. Are you still using your personal phone number for your startup? It's 2023.

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And if you allow the sales team to run them up or the customer support team, it's just unprofessional. Be professional. Use open phone. And we use it for things like event communication. So we get one phone number, but it can go to multiple people, like around Robin. Then we have a shared phone number. Do that for customer support. And Open Phone is rated number one on G2 for customer satisfaction. And I trust G2's ratings. Open phone. It's ready. It's affordable. Starts at just 13 bucks a month. But Twist listeners can get 20% off any plan for the first six months at openphone.com slash twist. And if you have existing numbers with another service, no problem. Easy, peasy lemon, squeeze, open phone will port them over at no cost. Head to openphone.com slash twist to start

your free trial and get 20% off. I believe Google has the best data. They have the greatest data scientists and AI. So let's start reflecting back here. ChatGPT wants to get this out before Google. They're racing. What do you think of Google's chances here? Because they have that giant image database known as Google Images.

They have this giant video repository known as YouTube. I would think if they block ChatGPT, from using images, Gmail, and YouTube, that they would have a massive advantage in multimodal. Well, I think spot on,

and I think the one real, just I want to add one thing to it, then I'll answer your question. When it comes to YouTube, that's all generated content that through their terms of use, they have access to inherently. Versus, you know,

search and things like that, it could get a bit wonky because if they're pointing out to someone's site and using that for training data, but they can easily make one change to terms of use. And unless you want to pull your videos off YouTube, you're going to say yes. Similar to the way we've done in this Zoom thing, right? We want to try as we just kind of said yes, like they can train off this stuff. And so given that, I'm actually already experiencing an interesting change in my behavior. So I use the Google search app It's like a native app you can download iOS or Android. And inside that, you can enable generative search.

And I have to say, and you can do it within Chrome and other places, but I have to say 90% of my searches now are, you know, it's a standard search. And you can say, give me the gen result. And the gen result is incredible. And it's up to date. It's not limited in time. So better than chat, GPT, for an average search.

I, that's been my experience. Yeah. Yeah. See, I think we're in this little trow of indifference. Yeah. There was this peak enthusiasm. This is going to change everything. And then I think a lot of people stopped using it.

I know people in my organization have stopped using it because, like I said, I was on this call today and I hammered it over and over again before you ask a question on a call, especially at conference call. Please ask Chat Chitiam Bard. and then see if they give you a decent enough answer and then you can at least bring that answer to the party. But I think people are forgetting how powerful this thing is and it's like the habit has to be built

but you're telling me in the Google search app it's on by default. So instead of going to your Chrome or Safari browser and doing a search on your iPhone, you use the Google search app. Yeah. And you just have to turn it on, you're saying? Yeah, it's like in their labs feature

and then you can turn it on. and it's, you know, now to use the labs feature, you have to use an at Gmail account. Yes, you do. See, this is the thing people don't understand, is you either have to, in order to use these advanced features,

just type in Google Labs and you'll find it, these experiments, but if you're on a Google domain, like you have your own custom domain, like at launch.com, at inside, at definitive, you then need to go into your admin, if you have admin access and turn on experiments.

Yes. But it doesn't seem like, yeah, so search labs, you know, here I'll just show you. It says search labs isn't available for your account.

So that's like my corporate account. It's not available. So I have to then go switch to my Gmail account, which I never use. But I'm being forced to by Google. This is the weird thing. Google treats Google domain users,

Google office users, whatever they call it, as second class citizens. It's really annoying. So I just did this. What are the new features in the iPhone 15? And see here it gives me this little tab, because I have it enabled on my personal Gmail account.

And I click generate. And, you know, basically it's going to give you the quick summary, right? It's got USBC, the dynamic island is a cutout instead of a notch, 48 megapixel camera, yada, yada, yada, A16 chip, right? And so, and, you know, I actually used this the other day because I have the Apple Watch Ultra, and I said, what is the difference between the Apple Watch Ultra and Ultra 2, right? And basically here, you can generate it.

And like, you know, and even just below that, right here, J-Cal, this is a sponsored Apple ad, right? Which is compare the models. Yeah. And here, I just, it gave me the little thing. It did its own comparison in a table generated by AI. So now you could do, hey, what's the difference between the Apple Watch Ultra and the Google Watch, Pixel Watch, whatever they call that. Yeah, yeah. And it's very important you have to use.

If you want to use these experiments, you cannot be on your domains account. You've got to be on your Gmail account. Yeah. But they are enabling it for your work. So if, you know, I think at next a couple weeks ago, which was, yeah, maybe even the week just before the Online Summit, they did say they're launching all the generative features for the workspace account. So you can ask your admin to go in there and probably enable it for for the admin, for the work account. Yeah, but where do you turn it on? Here it goes. It says to turn on, you go to Google Lab, scroll down to that section, settings, hit enable, click. click on save, and then there you go.

Look for the SGE card and it's on. I don't know why Google is making this so difficult to turn on. It should just be on the top of every Google search page. Yeah. Is the reason they're not turning it on because it's going to take too much CPU and they would...

Yeah, that's what I heard. That's, you know, basically, you know, it is like a kind of a compute issue. And so that's sort of what I heard in the background from a couple of different folks. But usually, I think within workspaces, if you try it on that one, I think there they just enabled it.

You don't have to wait for the wait list. Yeah, that would be the way to do it. Because then for your whole org, to your point that anytime they're just searching for anything, they'll see it there, right? And then it's not like, you don't have to change the behavior. But they still make you click the button. It doesn't do it automatically,

because I guess they don't. It was doing it. I think they turned it off for the same compute reasons. Right. And maybe even monetization. Because remember right below that was a sponsored Apple link, right? So now, like what I'm finding myself is I'm never clicking a sponsor link because I'm getting the answer in what I need right in the gen search. That's super dangerous.

Yeah. And that is what we've all talked about being a very dangerous. Yeah. That's a very dangerous thing for Google to then lose all that. So they are being judicious in rolling this out. All right. You know I've been on a health kick over the past year. And you know I care about data-driven solutions.

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for 25% off. So how is multimodal different than say writing code, right? The code interpreter. Yeah. Because code interpreter,

I guess when it's writing code is really just an LLM that is doing code instead of words, but it's still words at the end of the day. Yeah, I mean, look, I think that's like the first step into multimodal.

I would view that as kind of like very basic multimodal, even though both are in language. You know, it is sort of a different, I look at it as like a different use case. Interestingly, though, they renamed code interpreter to advance data analytics. Oh. Yeah.

That's because people thought it was for developers, not for data scientists. Exactly. So they've kind of renamed it recently. Interesting. And that itself feels like a different product. Do you think the UI for these products is going to start to break up a little bit? Or do you think we're still going to have this one UI to build them all?

So it's a really good question. And we've been spending a lot of time thinking about this even in my day job. I think the way it plays out over, let's say, the next 18 months is there's going to be a set of folks that try to integrate it natively. And then this is a really good segue into the first demo for this week. And then there's going to be a set of folks that say, I'm going to rely on the sort of, you know, the bards or the Google search or, you know, open AI to send me,

I'll integrate it via a plugin and we have a good example there. And then I think where I'm the most excited is like sidekicks, where you have an existing application. It has a bunch of context and knowledge, you know, could be data, could be features and functionality. And a sidekick kind of overlays on top of it. I kind of feel like we're going to see a lot more sidekick type applications than the first two in the next 18 months.

Because I think what we'll have to have is people rebuild applications from scratch to make them interact with like sort of multimodal prompts. We'll even get away from text. I think you'll have to reimagine that completely. Yeah, people are so used to. chatting with each other that chat felt like the natural interface

but there is a better interface I think when you're working on a let's say a Google sheet or you're working on a table or a document which is I don't want to ask a question and have it rewrite it

and move everything up I want to stay on the same document and just have it change that document you know what I'm saying I don't want to just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. Or if I'm working on an Excel document, I would like to just talk to it. And none of these are letting me do that.

And I had the CEO of Gramerly on recently. Oh, great. And I love Gramerly. Yeah, it's a great product. And I would like to just sit on my document and say, let's talk about the second paragraph. And then the AI would say, okay, what would you like to do with the second paragraph?

Here are some ideas. Make it shorter, make it tighter, make it funny. You know, I feel like I'd like to say this in a little bit less words and more pithy and maybe make a quip. And it's like, okay, here are some quips. Here's a shorter version.

And I just look at it and say, you know, I like the second version. Let's work on that one. And, you know, I'm talking to it and it's changing it as we go. Not moving it up. Then I got to cut and paste it, move it over to my application.

So that's what you mean by having it be a co-pilot. Yeah. And Grammarly does a really, good job. I don't know if you're tracking their latest features. You guys talked about it. But like they sort of have they've kind of built in some Gen AI features and it can

you know, and it's always been able to take your paragraphs and help you rewrite them. But now it has just some more superpowers which I find are really interesting. The latest version of Grammarly is pretty awesome. I always make sure my Grammarly is like up to date because they're just launching like the best features all the time.

It's pretty great. I have to say I am a big fan. of Grammarly and they've added a lot to it. Ah, you know what's interesting? I was trying to figure out why I'm not seeing it on my desktop. Google is only allowing you

because I've been using, I've been testing Firefox and Brave instead of Chrome because I found Chrome is like getting a little slow. And I switch. There's some optimizations you can do. I'll send you. That make it really fast. They've just launched them in the last couple of months that make it zippy fast.

Yeah, because something went wrong with Chrome over the last year or two where it just gets slower and slower and slower and I'm just like this is getting right fresh rush. They did a big push. I'll share them with you. Some performance updates that really make things like 10 times better. But if you want to use Google search experiments,

you must be using Chrome, which is like that bundling issue that the Justice Department doesn't like, which is to use these things, you have to and here I am. Now I have, oh, I had it all on. I have it for sheets. Yeah. Yeah.

I just, can somebody at Google stop doing, I mean, listen, you're Google. Make things easy, right? Like, why is Google making people jump through hoops to find this stuff? Just let people turn it on whenever they want. What are great 5,000 seat theaters in New York. Now I got it. So let me see if I try it, what happens. Hold on.

I'm going to share with you because this is what I'll do to plan the next all-in summit. Awesome. And you start thinking about party planners, right? Yeah. I mean, what do I need a party planner for anymore? You know, like I need them on the ground, maybe. Yeah. Well, you need like, you know, you need physical labor.

That's becoming more and more about it. Oh, there you go. You have it. Yeah. And now I have it. But look, here's a bunch of like random, you know, venues. But here I say generate. And let's see how it does.

It's generating to my query, what are great 5,000 seat theaters in New York. I think that's what I can rent. many there's Coney Island Amphitheater Central Park Oh, Casino Central Park Room? I don't know about that. Some other ones include What are the largest movie theater screens? Now, what are great 5,000 seat theater?

5,000 plus, see if it understands, plus there's in New York City, I can rent and put that in a table. See, this is where we'll see if it can actually put it in a table for that. you're really pushing it. Let's see. But, you know, and if it can't, it's going to, that's a little bit of a table. It didn't do it. But if I do the same query, see, this is where I get confused.

Because if I go to Bard and I ask for the same query in Bard, I bet you it does a table, right? So like, what is going on over here at Google? Like, you're, you got Bard helping us do this. And the card put it in a nice table with exactly what I want. So why not give me that in Google search? It's very confusing what you're doing over there. but I guess, they're trying to move fast, right? Oh, I like that export to sheets thing too.

That's new. The export to sheet thing is like an incredible feature because you click it. It creates a spreadsheet. And remember I said before, I don't want to be cutting and pasting. And I want it to cut and paste. So now it's made that spreadsheet. I can go open it. And what a great start.

This is. Because this is what I, the first step I ask my people to do is this. Is this. Yeah. And, but what I want to do is I want the AI here. Yeah. I want to say to the AI, while I'm in Google Sheets, add to column E.

They have that. You don't have that turned on. They have that now, too. They have that too. There's a Sheets AI companion? Yeah, there is. Yeah. Oh, my Lord.

Yeah. I didn't know they had that. I'm going to have to take a look into that one as well. But, you know, I think this is where people who listen to this show, you got to use this stuff every day. You got to use multiple ones because you will find over time like radically different answers from

each. Like chat GPT4, I bet you does a much better job at the same query even though it doesn't have so here Madison Square Garden Kings Theory Beacon Theater and I get links to the websites right? So I can say

um Oh nice. Add 10 more but limit them to theaters 10,000 seats and theaters between 4,000 and 10,000 seats. Also add a column with, ask, kind of with the price to rent the theater. And this is where, like, you know it doesn't have that information because it probably doesn't exist on the web somewhere. Exactly.

It's not an end's training. And look, it says it finding precise rentals, challenging variable nature of this. But at least it put in something. I wonder if it's guessing here. I mean, maybe that's the correct price. I don't know. But look, it did such a better job here.

Apollo Theater, Hammerstein Ballroom. And you just think about how much work this would be to do Google searches, to ask people. I mean, this was like a hard. task. And now all of a sudden, you know, you're just watch it do the work. So if you're a party planner and you're not using this, and if I said, hey, you know, what are some themes for a party in New York City that people could dress up for?

You know, now you're like, I just want to brainstorm, right? I'm just want to brainstorm some ideas. but look, it always puts it in a table, you know? And it says why it works in New York City. I didn't ask for that. Great Gatsby. That's a good one. Studio 54, that's a great one.

Great one. New York icons. Andy Warhol, that's a great one. Black and white gal is good. Sex and the City's good. Gangs of New York is killer. Wall Street. Oh my God.

So many interesting ones. I mean, it's pretty great. Yeah. I mean, I have to say, like, I was thinking of doing a Studio 54 one. and a great Gatsby one those are on my short list of parties for the next time. But I didn't think New York icons

and I didn't think gangs in New York and both of those are kind of fun. Gangs in New York would be so fun. That would be hilarious. You got a bunch of demos, but we're convincing you the audience of how this could help you in your job, so please send this clip to everybody

who works for me, please people. Stop asking me questions and just ask Chad JPT and then come to me with what answers they gave you. Oh, did you sign up for at GPD enterprise yet? Did you apply? We've had an enterprise relationship for, like, from the earliest days, just kind of nature of how we've been working with them.

And, you know, we... But there's an enterprise product specifically now that you can sign up for, and then it shares and it records everybody searches in like one sort of grand repository. So that's what I want. Yeah. Well, the enterprise features, and like, I don't know them all. to top of my head, but like the main functionality that's enabled there is like sort of like a single account, like what you're saying, you can kind of look at what everyone's doing in your organization.

And it's all, it's not like a, it's not inside your enterprise yet, right? So you still, it's not like you get it, like kind of on-prem or something, but it's the right thing to do as an organization in terms of how, you know, you've been thinking about using it, a single billing account, all that stuff. Everyone can go to it and all the information, you know, because, if you think about IP of your business, now when people are searching with it and they're coming up with these results

and you're paying them to do it, that should be your IP, you should retain that. And so I think that's kind of powerful. Let's go through some demos. I mean, it's been a couple weeks. You had a bunch of demos back up. Wow me with what's going on here.

Wow, me and the audience. Okay. So we're going to go back to plug-ins for a minute because, like, you know, we kind of started here and we started in plugins. I have our definitive one enabled. We're not going to use that, but slow plug. But I have Canva enabled.

So Canva is excellent. And so. Canvas in chat, GPT. Okay. Yeah. So you can say, Shout out Melanie. Give me a template for a graphic that I can post on a Twitter.

I'm just going to say Twitter for the sake of it. Okay. And so I'm going to do that. And basically, things are a bit slow today. So I'm going to have to run this one twice. there it goes. And so, and we'll iterate this really quickly.

And what this will do, and so here it's going to give me, like a, so if I want to, you know, do some kind of post to Twitter for an event that's coming up or whatever it may happen to be,

it's going to give me a template I can work off of, but what's, and it's going to give me some, some different ideas here, right? And so what's awesome is I can go right from this, and I can click on this link right here, and it's going to open up right inside,

Canva. Oh, sweet. Yeah. And so, and so it's given me a few different templates that I can say, now I can say, oh, you know, these weren't great. So I'll say, I'll say, can you give me some templates that include headshots? And, and so I find this, this is like that interesting intersection, right?

because Canva will ultimately have some kind of co-pilot, but I find this interaction within this, you know, kind of chat GPT world, really, really powerful. And so going back to what you, you know,

you worked on a bunch of things recently, your team worked on a bunch of things. Yeah. This could really speed stuff up because you can kind of start from here and you can, you know, get off to the races and get going. Well,

it's interesting. You mentioned that. Nick and I are working on a new podcast, and we were just, we were going to do it we're doing a podcast for like capital allocators and we have a couple of ideas for names and we have to make art and I said hey who's our best artist can you just work with one of our people and show me these two names as a conference and a podcast

and maybe put it on a mug or a you know a jacket or a t-shirt and show me what the artwork would look like and usually when I do that I just pay an artist 500 bucks or a thousand bucks to do it they spend a day on on it, they show me. And then I'm like, okay, now I creatively like this one versus that one, right? But yeah, this is definitely a great start. So if I did make me a motivational poster, give me a motivational poster that is sarcastic and actually depressing. I'm asking you to do something pretty sophisticated, which was like comedy. So it's using chat GPT4,

sending this. And we're gonna, see, it didn't do it. It's giving me motivational posters. He got that part of it, but it doesn't feel like it understand the goal here. So why is it not using chat GPT? Because if I asked chat GPT4 without the plugin in,

it would come up with sarcastic yeah. Because it's good at coming up with sarcastic stuff, I think. Yep. But it can't put the two things together. Why is it breaking? Because it's still a light integration. A light integration.

It's still like what it's doing is it's probably taking what you're saying, sending a search over to Canva. Canva has a bunch of pre-built templates and is grabbing them. The next iteration of this is what you're saying should go over to Canva. Canva should have their own LLM that can generate these things on the fly. and make them available. And so to me, this is just, it's,

it's in the crawl walk run. This is the crawl phase of this still. And what you're asking for is more like in the walk and run, but they're going to get there super fast. Yeah. You shouldn't, like, I completely agree with you.

You should be able to give it exactly what you're looking for and have it, uh, and have it do that. Yeah. See, if I just asked chat TP, for make me some sarcastic, motivational poster slogans.

that are actually depressing for workers. And this is where, like, you're asking it to do comedy here or be witty. Okay, here's a table. Teamwork makes the dream work, but nightmares are also dreams. That's a good one. I mean, you can workshop that. Find the corporate ladder. It's just like snakes and ladders, but more snakes.

Live for the weekdays because your weekends because your own by us. That's darn. think outside the box but stay inside your cubicle there's your winner dressed for the job you want which is still probably not this one fell harder so we have someone to blame oh your ideas matter just not to us Nick turned that one before for me reach from the stars but don't expect to raise

it's pretty good so if I were to take these see what I want to do is take these And they actually explained it, which is pretty funny. You didn't, this success is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration, and 100% office politics is, that's really good. It's great. Please remove column two and give me just column one. Okay, now if I take these and I just have the one column, I should be able to cut these, paste them into the canvas thread and say,

show me these with a motivational image behind them. But it's not going to put the right image behind it. You know what I'm saying? I don't think, I don't think, I think the integration is still a little bit early. But let's give it a try.

I haven't tried it in this particular. Chat GPD4 plugins. Okay. Put these slogans on top of inspirational posters. Let's see. Let's see if it comes anywhere close to doing it. See, this also makes me wonder if the people who are building these plugins are even coming up with the use case or they're just...

Yeah. So it's just giving you templates to use. It's not a deep integration. It's not a deep integration. It's not even putting the poster. It's not even understanding that I want these slogans on top of it. Yeah. But that's not a ton of work.

I mean, hopefully someone from Canva watches this and they can implement it pretty quickly. Embarrassing. To my friends at Canva. Like, just sloppy work. Sorry, no, I'm joking. I mean, I understand. It's like, this is like, Melian, come back on the podcast.

Meli, come back on the podcast. We love you. You're awesome. No, I mean, do better. Come on. Come on, people. I mean, it seems like, is it that the plugin architecture is janky?

Is that the problem? No, no, no. The plugin architecture is really good, in fact. Which one's the best plugin right now that you use or I'm super or super impressed by? Because this did not impress me. This is more work than just using Canva. Well, Wool from Alpha, if you really want access to, like, kind of facts, does an incredible job.

You know, what's really interesting is Zillow is gone. Oh, Zillow took theirs off. Yeah. Because it was so bad. Well, I thought it was, like, again, heading in the right direction. But I think it's sort of this, you know, fear of chat GPT becoming, like, the apex aggregator. And so if everyone is just going there and searching for things and you're, just a data source, then your business has less value.

Well, you lose the interface. You lose the customer relationship. I mean, that really is why people should not do these plugins. Because you don't have the email of the person. Yeah. You don't know why they're searching this. They can be scraping your data. And you just gave up any monetization.

So this is where- The case, like if they link you out, like you're never going to be able to edit that poster in chat GPT. Like, Canvas still has like a lot of value proposition in my mind there. Well, if they're going multimodal, I have a feeling I could find the templates I like and then just tell ChatGPT if they're going multimodal to do what I just asked it to do. Yeah. I mean, see, this is where I think this relationship between the language models and the verticalized software,

I think they got to put ChatGPT in Canva. They've got to put a language model into Canva before Canva is in ChatGPT. That's it, full stop. And you've got to build enough accruement and features around it. that people do not go to chat, GPT4 first. Well, that's starting to happen with the growth of the models, right? Even in the last three or four weeks where we've been off, there's been some pretty significant news releases, right, from Lama code.

Yeah, so Lama code, which is, you know, META's version of code interpreter was released and, you know, made available for, from an open source perspective. you know, Falcon released a bunch of different models. And to show Code L-L-A-M-A, that is the coding tool. This is like copilot for a code interpreter from Zuckerberg. From meta, yeah. Yes. And they made it open source.

They made it open source. There you go. So here it is. Introducing Code Lama and AI tool for coding. And so this will be better than whatever chat GPT does, do you think? Because it's open source and people can rip on it and edit it and fork it and do all kinds of interesting things? Yes and yeah. So let me give you two different answers here.

Currently, I think based on industry agreed upon benchmarks, it's not as good as code interpreter. Okay. But because it has the ability for folks to modify it, it's going to get there quickly. And so on this one, I know you like this, J.Cal, I'll say by January of 2024, this will surpass the capability of code interpreter.

Fascinating. Yeah. So this conversation you and I had at the start of our journey doing this week in AI, basically every week, the distance between chat sheet, for and everybody else is starting to narrow, specifically in certain verticals,

code being one of them. Interesting. And then what happened with Falcon? Now, is Falcon, explain what Falcon language model is to everybody. So that's a language model, I think, created in the UAE, in fact. Yes. And they have different size models. And just to kind of go back, you know, what different parameter sizes, I think they have everything ranging from like $1 billion to $30 billion. And the way for folks to think about the parameter size is like neurons. The more parameters there are, like, the smarter the model is. And it was most likely trained even on more and more data. Exactly. And so they now have a bunch of different models that they've released. $180 billion is going to be pretty significant.

And just for reference, Open AI hasn't published how big chat GPT4 is, but I think the consensus is that it's like four or five, 200 billion parameter models working together. And again, they haven't published this, but people have, you know, kind of people are saying this is what it looks like. And so it still would be, you know, I guess have five times more neurons than, say, Falcon 180B. Yeah, and this is amazing. The UAE has bought a ton of big iron, and they're working on this and making it open source as well. So you can go see it on Hugging Faces, the Falcon 18B demo.

Yeah. And you can play with it and download it. Yeah. You can do whatever you want with it. Yeah. And so if I were to put in here, what are some great themes for a gang, for a party in New York City? I wonder how it does. Masquerade Ball, Roaring 20s.

He got that one. Great Gatsby. Skyline and themed. Broadway musical theme party. That's not bad. Mad Men, not bad. Urban rooftop. movie night classic films of New York.

That's not bad. Speak easy. Prohibition error. Pretty good. Super Hair inspired. Jazz Age. Okay. Not bad.

Pretty similar. Your kind of makes sense, right? Gotham City. Gotham City. Metropolitan. You have fun with that. A bunch of people running around Manhattan office. All right.

It's amazing. We have time for one more demo. Give me your next best demo here. We go covered a lot of ground today. I got to get back on my LP calls. Raising Fund 4. Halfway there. Yeah.

Man, raising a fund in the worst economic market in 13 years, 14 years? What a great idea. Thanks, Jake, Hal. I mean, it literally is like, you know, I've never received so many. I love you. I want to be in business with you.

We are closed for business this year in my life. But I'm halfway there, so I feel pretty good about it. In this market, if you're getting halfway there, that's all. I mean, I'll get the rest. I'll get the rest. It's just going to take me another six months.

This one, I'm not going to do a demo because I was, having an issue with my API key with it, but I really want to push people this because this problem comes up all the time. And in fact, even you and Nick were going back and forth on something with respect to headshots. But basically, it's, you know, headshots enhanced by AI. What you do is you give it, you know, some photos of yourself and then basically give it, you know, some time to work its magic and it turned those into professional headshots. And I know people need this all the time. It's a very, very simple use case, but it's a common use case. And we,

you need it and I thought it was like super exciting and uh... I have seen people using this. There was one thing that people got a little upset about, which I guess everybody reads entities, but a woman had done them. I saw this on the, on the, the Twitter slash X, X formerly known as Twitter, and it made them a little too, what's the word here? It was a little too sexy. Oh, okay.

And, you know, like, you know, it was almost like making her an anime character in terms of proportions and stuff. And she's like, what the? It's a business headshot, not a anime superhero. And so, and then there's also, I think some people who were like, wait a second, this is turning me from this race into this race. So there were, there are, I think that's a bit of an interpretation problem. Like, I don't think you can read into it that the AI wants you to be another essence. ethnicity, it's just probably got a bad training set of data, right? Well, it's not just training set.

You know, you got to remember, these things are all tuned with a process called, you know, reinforcement learning with human feedback. Ah. And that involves humans and it involves humans and their preferences. And, you know, we, what no one really tells us is like, well, what is the makeup of those, you know, human feedback reinforcement learners, right? Got it. And I know like a lot of this,

Open AI had talked about this in the past. They had it done in Africa. I think they had teams, you know, kind of spread across Africa doing a lot of this work. The reinforcement learning work. The reinforcement learning work, right? And so a lot of this can, the models themselves, or even the training data may not have as much bias in it,

but definitely the humans doing the reinforcement learning. Like, we're humans. We're going to have bias in it. So I think it's something you've got to be mindful of with all, with all of these technologies. It's becoming a viral trend. If you just type in make AI professional headshots,

you can always tell when something's like making money because there were four ads for services to do this. Oh, really? Oh, wow. Yeah, $29 per person, done in two hours.

Only $25 for a collection of six custom headshots. Now, you think about what it would cost to get a professional headshot made. You've got to find a photographer. They're going to charge you at least, what,

hundred, two hundred bucks to come take your photo somewhere. It's going to take four or five hours of your day. Here, you take a couple of pictures of yourself. Yeah. And you're done. This is pretty... You might have even go buy a suit if you don't have one. No, that's the crazy part.

You could put yourself in... You'd be like, put me in Armani suits. Put me in some great suits. And we're good. And then you show up for work and you don't own any suits. They're like, hey, what happens to your suits, Sonny? Hellarious. All right, everybody.

They're in the Metaverse. Yeah, that's another this week in AI with Sunny Madra and Jay Cow, we will see you next Monday with another amazing episode. We're going to try to be consistent producer, Nick, in having every Monday, be all that AI goodness for you. So wake up Monday, get that this weekend AI with Sande Madra and your boy, JCal. And we'll see you all next time on this week and startups. Bye-bye.