This Week in Startups - RunwayML, AI Steve Jobs, & more with Sunny Madra & Vinny Lingham | E1755

Episode Date: June 3, 2023

This Week in Startups is presented by: Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal-breaker for startups to win new business. Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC 2 report fast. TWiST listeners can get $1,000 off for a limited time at vanta.com/twist. Embroker. The Embroker Startup Insurance Program helps startups secure the most important types of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle. Save up to 20% off of traditional insurance today at Embroker.com/twist. While you’re there, get an extra 10% off using offer code TWIST. .Tech domains are the go-to namespace to build anything in tech… and home to the world’s most innovative startups. Secure your .Tech domain today and lock down a 1-year domain for $10, or a 5-year domain for $50 at https://go.tech/TWIST today! * Today's show: Sunny and Vinny are back to break down what's next after AI layoffs(30:10), discuss RunwayML's massive valuation(52:09), and more! Follow Vinny: https://twitter.com/vinnylingham Check Out Waitroom: https://waitroom.com/ Follow Sunny: https://twitter.com/sundeep Check Out Definitive: https://definitive.io/prompts/new * Time stamps: (00:00) Sunny and Vinny join Jason (1:39) Sunny demos Runway (9:16) Jason AI interviews AI Steve Jobs (12:37) Vanta - Get $1000 off your SOC 2 at https://vanta.com/twist (13:44) Jason AI interviews AI Steve Jobs continued (18:27) The potential for genealogist AI startup (22:26) Converting thoughts into text with Audio Pen AI tool (24:40) Microsoft charging 40% more for AI-enhanced services (28:55) Embroker - Use code TWIST to get an extra 10% off insurance at ⁠https://Embroker.com/twist (30:10) Comparing hiring with improving employee efficiency (33:46) The ChatGPT share feature (37:47) Meta's Image Bing AI tool (40:33) .Tech - Lock down a 1-year domain for $10, or a 5-year domain for $50 at https://go.tech/TWIST (42:01) Microsoft integrating AI into windows (49:29) The Sales Recording Law (52:09) Big funding rounds and why investors must get in early (55:30) Japan going all in on copyright * Read LAUNCH Fund 4 Deal Memo & Apply for Funding Buy ANGEL Great recent interviews: Brian Chesky, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland, PrayingForExits, Jenny Lefcourt Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis * Follow Jason: Twitter: https://twitter.com/jason Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis * Follow TWiST: Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin * Subscribe to the Founder University Podcast: https://www.founder.university/podcast

I think everybody's assumption, just like seeing like a Twitter handle tweet something, that you'd be like, that's a tweet, okay, it's a LinkedIn. Am I sure that this actually happened in reality? I'm going to just get three or four sources. So everybody's kind of assuming that if something's in the press, that the press has biases and you have to learn the, you know, the indifengual nuance of each publication and that if you find something on social, it's probably been doctored.

I'm going to always guarantee you that. it a big publication in the next election, 24, will make a screw up and publish something, which is totally fake, and then apologize for it afterwards. 100%. That will happen. Yeah. Okay. This weekend startups is brought to you by Vanta. Compliance and security shouldn't be a deal breaker for startups to win new business.

Vanta makes it easy for companies to get a SOC2 report fast. Twist listeners can get $1,000 off for a limited time at Vanta. com slash twist. Embroker's startup insurance program helps startups secure the most important types of insurance at a lower cost and with less hassle. Save up to 20% off of traditional insurance today at Embroker.com slash twist. While you're there, get an extra 10% off using offer code twist. And dot tech domains are the go-to namespace to build anything in tech and home to some

of the world's most innovative startups. secure your dot-tech domain today and lock down a one-year domain for $10 or a five-year domain for $50 at go.com. All right, everybody, welcome back to this week in startups. It's our AI roundtable with Sunny and Vinny. Sunny Madra, of course, is the co-founder of definitive intelligence. They provide AI enhanced data analysis of both private and public data and Vinnie Lingam, the founder of Wait Room for one-on-one video conferencing. That's at Weightroom.com.

He's adding a bunch of AI related features. Welcome back to the program, Vinny and Sunny. Thanks, Jekyll. Hey, Sunny. Good to be back. Good to be back. All right. Tons of stuff going on.

Sunny, let's just get right to demos. It's demo or die time. If you're listening to this, we will sportscast what we're talking about, so you can just listen while you're driving. But if you want to, YouTube.com slash this weekend or search for this week in Startup's video on Apple Podcasts, or if you're on Spotify,

They have their own proprietary video player, which we have been added to. So you can just hit the video button on Spotify. I haven't seen it. I didn't know that Spotify did videos. That's cool. It's only a small number of podcasts. They're internal ones that they bought with like the ringer,

call her dad. Is it call her daddy? Those ones that they paid for, you can. They don't use like a public RSS standard, which is something I talked to Daniel Ack about. It's like, please respect,

you know, standards. because we have an RSS feed for video and an RSS feed for audio because it's two different experiences but with Spotify we have to take a third step and give them like a proprietary video but it's worth it I guess

so people can do it but I think it's much easier just to go to YouTube.com slash this week in or just search for this week in startups but let's get right to work. Sonny, what do you got first for us? Because you are playing with every tool as they come out, you're learning a lot. I'm doing the same.

Chat CheapD4 is like my default now and my God is it getting better. every day. Okay, so what do we see here? So this is a tool. It's kind of, it's interesting. The tools in the news this week,

as well as good to talk about it. So runway, I believe you guys had these, you had the team on. Yeah. And they just raised a massive round and agreed to move their, I think a bunch of their compute

over to GCP. So, you know, kind of interesting to see how that's playing out. Yeah, Google cloud platform. Yeah. And, you know, so they sort of have what, would say is a generative AI tool that allows you to do things to video, which is, you know,

pretty, pretty awesome. And I found a video of our good friend here, Jason, having a good time. Is that DJ, J. Cal? It's DJ. Well, this is like, you know, you're, you're jamming to a DJ in this case. So I'll just quickly play this video here. And.

Jay Cow filling the ranch water that Sunny made for me. Let's go. Yes. Yes. And so This was Kygo by the way Isn't that Uncle Beach Club?

That's Encore Beach Club We have the number one Sunny and I have the number one booth Overlooking Kygo Is that he pronounced his name? Yeah He's incredible Kygo you're watching

I'm a massive fan of yours Please feel free Shout out Kygo man That kid tore it up And that's me feeling No pain at 1 p.m. in the afternoon drinking Yeah

What's called ranch water Which is to kill So what does this do it The AI breaks down What I'm drinking No, it does not do that. So I went in here and it allows you to go, you know, video to video. And I said, this is cool, but this would be a lot cooler if it was cyberpunk.

Okay. And so I put a prompt in here and said, make it cyberpunk. My favorite genre. It takes about two, three minutes to generate since it's video. Look at that. And then I was going to give this a play. So it put me in neon with like a cyberjacket. I'm fist pumping.

The crowd's going crazy. and it turned it into like a cyberpunk neon city. Yeah, which is unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, you think about like making a short film right now or just making an independent film. If you were making an independent film and you wanted to make Blade Runner today,

you could have shot me at the club dancing and then just said, cyberpunk it. We're giving it even more granular prompts. It's pretty outstanding. And that looks like, you know, probably the CGI of a, film in the 80s? Maybe better. I think better than the 80s.

Yeah, maybe 90s. We'd have to put that up against like, what are the 90s cyberpunk films, like Johnny Nemonic or something. It looks like Johnny DeMonic level. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And, you know, it's, so I think what this is going to do for, you know, creators and, you know, folks in this industry is, it's incredible. You know, just look at the detail in the background of the city and everything else and this lighting and it's, and really, I was really, really impressed.

by, you know, what these folks have done. And definitely great to see them, you know, raising money and, you know, bringing workload to Google platform as well. Great. Amazing. So that is runway, AI. And very cool demo. Vinny, any thoughts? I think it's awesome.

I want to try some of my videos. It's very cool, funny. Very cool. And in order to do this, you know, we obviously had the same. wow moment, maybe to a lesser extent, with filters on Snapchat and then Instagram copied it, et cetera. And then, you know, 10 years before that, we saw these filters on something like Photoshop. So you'd be on a desktop and you'd take a picture and you'd make it Cepia. And you'd be like, whoa. You made it, you made a, you made a color photo black and white or you made a, you know,

black and white photo Cepia. Wow. Like, that's incredible that you can do that on a desktop. And it would take an hour or 15 minutes, then on your phone. But now this is taking videos and making really convincing stuff. And it's free form. Like there you were limited to the filters that it gave you, right? You couldn't do it. This I just did it by prompt. This is not a pre-determined filter by them. I just decided,

cyberpunk, you know, given your, I know, Blade Runner's your series of all time. Well, you could also have done three more follow-up prompts and refined it, refined it, refined it, refined it. You could have told it to change the background or, you know, whatever, put it on a night sky. You could have done all kinds of different options there. So this is truly, yeah, groundbreaking.

Yeah. But this can't be done on your phone. You don't have enough GPU on your phone To process is It's all done in the cloud It's done on the cloud, right? But I mean, eventually Eventually

You could probably have this on your phone Or probably not? I don't think it'll Yeah, you know, I think in a few years There'll be some portion of it That'll be done by the local, you know, the GPUs on your phone

I mean, I'm sure if it can't be done in the phone and you just do it on render Renda can probably just render this thing real time A good use case, a good use case. Yeah. All right. Yeah, so I thought it was really exciting.

You know, we've seen a lot of stuff in and around generative photos and that's taking off. But these guys have done an incredible job with video. And it just takes that eight second video took about two, three minutes to produce. So I'm figuring if you had something longer, you could do it. One thing that we could do at some point is we could take the recording of the episode, you know, the Zoom recording we do JCal. and we should turn it into a different format for fun. Yeah, totally.

We should just... Well, the thing I'm super excited about is language translation. So the ability to take this, leave our voices in, but have it be in Japanese and then publish it or Arabic and publish it to another language to me as something I'm actively pursuing right now. So I'm looking for a partner to do that. That's a good segue to the next two things I wanted to pull up. So I believe on the last episode that we did together, we asked for some folks to create an interview between you and Steve Jobs. Oh, did that happen?

Yeah. It happened. And there's two that I found if there's more, just message us. We're happy to share. You know, this one is particularly interesting because they even rolled in ads. And then this was their pitch to you. So it's sort of like an interesting thing. I'll pay the first maybe minute of it or 30, 30, 40 seconds of it.

Welcome to another epic episode of This Week in Startups. I'm your host, Jason Kalakhanis, and today is a big one. We have an incredible guest today, the visionary, the Titan of Tech, the co-founder of Apple, the one and only Steve Jobs. This week in startups is brought to you by Kaitera, your indoor air quality management platform. If you're a real estate or workplace experience leader looking to create world-class buildings, you need Kiterra. And if you're Jason Kalakhanis, you need to get Ketka, you need to get

Kiterra on this week in startups. And if this is how entertaining our AI podcasts are, just think about how good we are at our core business. Welcome, Steve. Well, I don't normally do podcasts, but I'm happy to be here with you today, Jason. We're really excited about this new launch, and I think you're also going to be pretty excited when you see what we've developed. So let's jump right into it. Tell us about the new reality pro ARVR headset. I'm going to stop it there because if folks want to listen to it. We'll drop the link, but that was a pretty good one. And I like the creativity on the ad and

reaching out to you that way. Yeah, and they're trying to pitch me their startup, which is an air quality monitoring company called pay Terra, K-A-T-E-R-A. Tera. Kai-T-R-A. Kai-Tera, an air quality monitoring platform.

Interesting. Good job. Guys, isn't this scary? Like, you know how bad the election is going to be affected next year? I'm convinced, like, whatever we saw in 2014, whatever it was, or 2018, it was like nothing compared to what we're going to see now. No, I'm not worried about it. I think everybody assumes. You don't think people are going to put together fake?

Oh, I think they will. I think everybody's assumption, just like seeing, like, a Twitter handle, you know, tweet something that you'd be like, that's a tweet. okay, it's a LinkedIn. Am I sure that this actually happened in reality? I'm going to just get three or four sources. So everybody's kind of assuming that if something's in the press, that the press has biases and you have to learn the individual nuance of each publication

and that if you find something on social, it's probably been doctored. I am going to always guarantee you that a big publication in the next election, in 2024 will make a screw up and publish something which is totally fake and then apologize for it afterwards. 100% that will happen. Yeah.

I mean, that has happened, right? People have happened. Yeah, it happened yesterday with that article about the drones attacking the drone operator. Yes, we'll get to that one in a second because that's a early. Yeah, yeah.

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That's Vanta. dot com slash twist for a thousand dollars off your sock too I've got one more of these videos that I want to give credit to because these teams you don't put the work in to put this together so let me pull up the next one which it took a different approach but I thought this one I really liked as well so we'll just make sure we're at the start here so I decided to take a one year sabbatical I went to go work at Foxcon City in Shen Jen to see how bad it really was oh wow so you really went deep Yeah, I did. And, you know, after really embedding myself, I found there were certain quality of life

improvements we could make. Of course. These workers, they usually share a dorm room with a co-worker. Yeah. And these dorms can be a bit small, a bit run down. What I quickly found is that they love karaoke. So we installed KTV rooms on each floor to liven things up a bit. Okay. That's a good start. And that worked for a while. Yeah. So I think the quality of the first one is much better than this one. felt like an old school, like someone took snippets, but I don't know what your thoughts are, Jake, are you listening a lot more of these.

I mean, there are obviously you can tell there's something off, even with a lot of training data. It looks like these folks are using play. dot ht. Is that the AI powered text voice generator? The first group did,

the Kiterra folks, these groups, this group, Jackalope Labs, their sponsors were kind of a joke, like who lead that AI. So they didn't really lead into what technology they used, but, you know, kudos to them. It was fun to listen to. I think what's going to get interesting about this is the creativity will continue.

And I think what will be most interesting is when people create like a synthetic reality. And what I mean by that is if you really, like they wrote kind of a goofy script there about, you know, creating karaoke rooms or whatever. but actually if you had the collective thoughts of Steve Jobs and my collective thoughts from a bunch of podcasts, you could actually simulate how I might discuss, I don't know, something like a global event that none of us is prepared for. Like a tactical nuke, God forbid, going off in Ukraine. So how would the world respond to that? You could actually run a simulation and have like world leaders.

discussing what just happened and how they're going to reply to it. And actually, you might get like an accurate take on it if a nuclear war broke out. So that could be very interesting. And people do make things like, remember the day after that was a TV show where writers conceived of what would happen if there was actually a nuclear war between the United States and Russia. So here you could really create more interesting, deep views of this.

where you have a historical figure, interview another historical figure. I talked about like Joe Rogan interviewing Jesus or whatever it happens to be, Mike Wallace interviewing Hitler. I mean, you could make really wild combinations of people being interviewed

and, you know, could be compelling, I don't know. Any thoughts on where this like, where this synthetic podcasting is going? Do you see a world in which a synthetic podcaster makes podcasts

with historical figures or, a synthetic podcast that is not connected to reality. I would probably listen to this. So if you're having a conversation with Nelson Mandela, for example, and you're asking him questions, and the AI has learned his book, like Long Walk to Freedom and all the other stuff he wrote and it can actually mimic him and give real world context what he did and what he said, that would be really interesting because then it gives the interviewer,

it gives you the ability to actually create a summary, right? Like, instead of having to, in his own words, so how, you know, how was the first 12 months at Robin Island? Like, tell me about that. And then it would go into the history logs and come back in his voice. Now, that would be authentic. That would be amazing to listen to, right? But if it was like just made up, that would be like inauthentic and no, like it's just, you know, so it depends what the intention is, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah, that's an interesting take. And, you know, I do think sort of, Jake, how you touched on it. what people need to start doing is like, you know, for you, obviously have lots of transcripts from, you know, all the podcasts you've done and public interviews you've done and the books, right? Yeah. And so I think, you know, that perspective and taking that and answering it because I think you'll get the most authentic J-Cal, I think when it's just voice layered over text that was written by something else, that's where it's less genuine. Yeah. Yeah, you have to, you, and this is where if you want to think about the singularity and your consciousness, or your persona lasting beyond yourself, having a bunch of recorded interviews.

And this is going to lead to a whole other, what are those people called who are obsessed with Ancestry.com and those kind of like family trees. Genealogists. So like genealogists, I think, there's an AI genealogy startup here that would be incredibly powerful where you get prompts, you go to your family and you say, hey, tell me about the birth of Sunny. And then, hey, Sunny, tell us about your childhood. And then, hey, Sunny is sister or brother or cousin.

Tell us about your version of those. And the AI would create prompts, listen to the responses, then create additional prompts like a documentary filmmaker might, and then fill in, you know, this incredible story of the Madras and their journey over the last couple years. And then you could actually pull in historical events or whatever. But this could create, the AI would know what prompts to do to create the best outcome for future generations to learn about their family training. The past, yeah, it's really fascinating.

Like basically, you now have a way to capture that. And then, because capturing was always possible people could write, you know, transcripts or whatever they want of what happened. But now you can make a digital and then you can interact with it. I think that's really, really amazing. Yeah, but the archaea, whoever that, you know, genealogist is, that role could be an AI. So an AI genealogist who listens to your. your answers and forms follow-up questions is that I would be interesting to me. And that says, who else should I talk to?

And then goes and talks to them. So I had an idea. And I'll tell you how long ago I had this idea. It was 2018, okay, five years ago. My mom died and I was trying to figure out, like, how do you, you know, like, I can't talk to her anymore. It's just really hard to connect to something. Obviously, you know, she's gone.

And, you know, if I was a lot younger and I lost my mom, like, it would be a lot harder. for me, like, you know, teenagers, whatever. But, you know, and I started thinking about, like, you know, if my kids get older and something happens to me, like, who's going to give them guidance on certain things when they have a problem like, you know, first date or whatever, like, you know, stuff you go to your dad for

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, ask questions and stuff, like, what would they do? And so, the idea I had back in those days, back in that day, was, like, maybe I should just, like, get a video camera and, and, like, write 100 or 200 lessons that I want to give my kids that they can always look up one day and they can just play it back. And so,

like, you know, dad's advice to me for this. Dad's advice me for that. And then, like, fast forward to AI now. I'm like, maybe I can just create an AI version of myself. And just spent hours talking to the AI about my, my, my, like, the way I think about things, the way you should treat other people. You know, just like who I am, my values. It could be quite cathartic and therapeutic when you think about it.

It would be. And then the AI could auto generate me. Okay, so a video that looks like me. And it could talk to my kids. anything ever happen to me. You can talk to my kids. Like, so the, the, the, the inspiration really was for Superman, right? So when he goes to the North Pole and he's able

to speak to his ancestors. Fortress of solitude. Exactly, exactly. And so you know, when I watched the first Superman movies back in the 80s, like, that was amazing, right? You remember the special effects was great? So, like, wouldn't it wouldn't it be cool to create that? And allow people to create this, like, legacy of themselves? Especially if you did it with crystals and you

could, like, drop the crystal into the reader. And, like, Marlon and Brando comes out. Any founders that they want to start this company, I will fund it. It's a great idea. I would love to immortalize myself. And you know, you got to come up with like the list of questions. So maybe there's 200 questions or 500 questions or whatever. But once you've like fed all that in, it's great. And so that's a good segue to what I've been looking at this week. Okay. Here we go. Vinnie getting in on it. Exactly. So let me share this. It's this thing called Audio Pen. Have you guys seen this?

I have not seen it. So, you know, now I've turned on to recording mode. So now I can just like talk about whatever I want that can ramble on. It's like, you know, I think that, you know, whenever you go out to a restaurant, you should tip as much as you possibly can up to like 25% and always make sure it's a minimum of like 10 bucks, you know, because people work really hard and, you know, this is part of the income. And I can, you know, and then I can kind of ramble my thoughts in a different direction. and say,

I don't know whether we should tip for takeout. Like, when you go to takeout, maybe you should only tip like 10% or if you're buying at retail and it asks you to tip, like should you pay? You're rambling now.

I'm rambling, right? And then I go, stop. And then it transcribes it. And give it a couple seconds. It takes messy thoughts and converts it into clear text. Exactly. It gets rid of all the,

it gets through the rambling. Ah. This is a great idea. Yeah. This is something that I would like to see. built into notion. I like to see this built into Slack. Or, yeah, tipping etiquette beyond restaurant servers. I'm now in recording mode so I can freely discuss my thoughts on various topic.

For instance, when dining at a restaurant, it's important to tip generously up to 25% of possible and ensure the minimum it's around $10 is because servers work hard and rely on tips as part of their income, yada, yada, yada, yeah, yeah. Very cool. So how much of this is your words, you know, just remembering what you said versus... I'm not sure what the main. But I think it's doing a pretty good job of cleaning up. Like, you know, I spru, I ramble for a minute and there we go.

That's exactly, that's the core of what I said. And what I like about these guys is they actually have a subscription. So you can pay 120 bucks for a lifetime. It's a great deal for these supporters. And I love seeing companies, you know, you have all the benefits of like ZAPia integration and super summaries. And it's kind of like a better version of Evernote. If you think about it. And it's always, so like this is something which I'm going to subscribe now, but, um,

You know, this is something I would totally use. I don't either have an app. I want to have an app. They should have an app for the phone, but definitely for the web. But I love seeing companies taking AI and actually starting to charge for it. And that actually brings me to another point where I saw today, I'm going to try and pull the article up, but essentially Microsoft is starting to charge up to 40% more for AI-enhanced services on the existing products. So if companies, basically for co-pilot, right? So if you want co-pilot on, you know, on a thousand seats, word or whatever.

Exactly. Office 365. So they're not starting to charge, charge more for it. You know, this is, so I, like, here's my take is that, and I found, I found the article, so let me just share this with me. So, I mean, 40% extra to test. AI features, like, this is the opportunity you're in AI. I mean, that's, you can build,

you can take, like, it's effectively like done products. If you look at like pre-AI, okay, so like, and then post-AI, right? Free AI products are going to go to zero. The software products are going to eat. It's going to zero. The revenues for, for Zoom,

just for a dumb pipe to do a video call, is going to go to zero. Okay? You're going to be paying for all the AI features on top of So if they don't move quickly enough, companies like Waitroom, which is my company and others, are going to build AI-enhanced features, and basically you won't be able to charge for the base product anymore.

You're going to have to, the money is going to go to AI. Which is exactly what happened in cloud computing, right? People started giving away a 40, what was the original Zoom offer, like 45 minutes for free or something, which was enough for like most people to use. And then if you were a corporate, you're like, well, I just don't ever want this thing to end. It's embarrassing. And for 20 bucks a month or 10 bucks a month per user.

I just don't want to have that embarrassing moment on a, by definition, a 46 minute Zoom call is an important call. So I don't want to be embarrassed that I'm too cheap to pay, so I'll do the embarrassment. Exactly. So with Waitrum, we're basically moving to unlimited video. So you can do your video calls on our platform and no 40 minute cut off. And because we're going to monetize purely on AI features. And also, like, when Zoom had the 40 minutes limit, first of all, they were a lot smaller.

And it was 10 years ago, 12 years ago, whatever it was. like the market's moved on. Video conferencing is super cheap. It costs nothing. So, you know, what are you really charging for? I really believe the next wave of product innovation and product development is basically taking great products that worked in the pre-AI era and make them 10x better. If you look at Notion, I have Notion AI.

I'm also playing for chat GPT for my entire team. So I told my entire team, just pay for chat GPT. get chatcheed before and all the plugins early. And about probably two out of three, maybe half my staff is actually using it. The other half, I'm like trying to push to use it and they're kind of lead-eyeding it. Sure, but I'm not pleased with. Sure, by Jason. Sure, but Jason.

It's so hard. Like, I'm just like, you know, just getting people who are on the verge of like, um, not realizing they're going to antiquate themselves if they don't get their butts in gear and start embracing this technology. It's really hard. I'm like, and I say it explicitly, like, I think you're like not going to be. employable in a year if you don't know how to use these tools. I don't know how to say it more clearly, folks. But Notion is eight bucks a month, right, to add AI. So if you've already got, you know,

plus business enterprise, they're like, hey, eight bucks a month per member. And I'm like, well, you know, 20 members, 180 bucks a month, whatever that is, 160 bucks a month, $2,000 a year, plus I'm paying $2,000 a year for chatchip. $4,000 a year, 20 person, $2,000. team, a couple million in payroll, actually makes sense for me to spend and buy both. Just on the off chance that one person prefers using Notion AI to chat cheap before, I would pay for five of these services, $100 per employee per month, just if they would use any of them, because it will add what? 40% seems like the right number because I think people are going to be 30, 40% more efficient

with these things. Listen, I work with super early stage companies at launch. like literally year zero. They haven't even incorporated yet. And then we hit the Series A. People have thousands of dollars in MRR. And maybe they've only raised a couple of hundred thousand before that Series A. And they don't have their insurance set up.

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Okay, let's get back to this amazing episode. I don't know if you're going to need to hire people. I still maintain it's hundreds of percent. I don't think it's, I think it's going to be bigger than that, but let's see how it plays out. You think per year or over the next couple years? I say 30% a year in gains. And like kind of compounding, sure.

Which means every two years, people get twice as good. Right? So it's a rule of 70 years. Then we're in agreement. Then we're in agreement. I think between every two and three years, each employee will be twice as efficient. Somewhere between months, 12 and 40, depending on the employee and how much they embrace this, they'll be twice as good. I don't think these companies, I'm looking at my companies, I'm like, why would we ever hire another person if there's an AI tool that we can buy and have a human who understands our business, utilize it?

Goes back to the point that I made previously, Jay, with you. Like, once all these layoffs like happen, people aren't going to be getting their jobs back. So if we hit a recession. Say more about that. Say more about that. Okay. So what happens when you do these layoffs? And if we, if, you know, the rates keep going up and we actually hit a risk, it triggers like a serious recession.

And people cut jobs five, 10, 15 percent across a whole bunch of sectors. Those, the remaining employees are going to start finding ways to do that get the jobs done or the people that cut. when you cut, you cut your worst people generally, right? It's like generally. We get performers. We get performers. Overpaid, whatever. Whatever.

And typically those people, you know, the people who remain behind, if they become 20, 50, 100% more efficient, they can get the work done that wasn't being done. Like, it's difficult to replace someone right now. You're like, Sunny and I were working in office and he's doing a shitty job. And I'm like, I can do his job better. I'm not going to get him fired so I can do his job. But if they fire him and I go, okay, well, let me go and I, I need to get this work done because we're on the same team

and now we're going to work twice as hard to get the done. I'm going to find ways to replace him using AI. And then the economy turns, you're going to be like, I don't need Sonny. This is all automated. Like, good luck to him. And that's what's going to happen. If we hit a recession, those jobs are not going to come back.

I can't disagree with you. I cannot disagree with you. Sonny, how are you looking at your, Sonny, how are you looking at your company? Because you're growing, but you're building AI tools. So certainly you must be looking at your developers and saying add another developer or just allow the developers to become 10% more efficient in them. Yeah, we're going through a huge transformation and process. But, you know, everyone has generally been on board here to be AI first.

And so it's like sort of what you said, but even in the realm of a developer just saying, hey, make sure that all the tools are enabled, you go there. And then, you know, the good thing here is this is where being in the office really helps because I think. think when people are remote, J-Cal, and I think most of your org is, they don't see the person beside them and, like, how they're using the tools.

For us, you know, we have everyone generally in the office, and I think when people see that side-by-side, the other thing is just by leading, you know, I built something like last week, and it was only possible

because of sort of all the advancements and AI tools, right? And it kind of was able to leverage Replit and its co-gen capabilities and sort of, you know, where I was stuck, I could go to Open AI and ask questions and how I get around it. And when people see that, they go, oh, my God, this is a person that usually isn't writing code day-to-day, you know, doing these things. That's also a big thing.

So maybe for you, like, just sharing all your prompts. I know you started doing that a little bit, but just sharing how you're using it and up. Because they made that feature available now, right? The share prompt. You don't have to go through the shared GPT anymore. People don't know this. Yes. But inside of chat GPT4, you no longer need shared GPT, which was a third-party service.

It just has a share button. you click the share button, you can continue and take that prompt over from the other person in your chat, JP4. Did you see that? Yes, correct. Yeah,

we can pull that up, in fact, as well. Maybe you can show a quick demo that. Do a quick demo that, and then I'll pick it up and show how that works. Yeah.

All right, so this is an interesting one. I'll just do this one here. And this is why, like, really using this stuff every day is the only solution to not being obsolete.

I also think, you know, we had somebody secretly, email us who was on the email Sunny and I who was on the chat GPT4 web search team

where you go out on the web and you search and he said to us you know because I said hey it's kind of janky and broken that they were working on making it better and better I don't know if you've noticed this

but it's working better and better better oh yeah it's really like reading web pages and it's really yeah working okay so what is this one you did Yeah, so here's a simple one. I was testing something out and I said,

what can I eat for lunch and dinner and keep my calories under $1,300 and no sugar? Please show calorie counts. And so you can, you know, it's kind of a common one here. You could put this together. You can add this with J.Kalzzympic and get super fit for the summer. Absolutely. And here you go. And once it's done, you know, creates it.

And then I can say, oh, this is interesting. So there's a new little button over here on the left. So I'm just looking at, you know, the chat. history and you click that share button and what it does is it then turns it into something that becomes permanent. I can hit copy link and I can go and send that off to someone and they can open it up. Now when they open it up, so if you were to open an incognito window, I'll send it to you. Okay. Now I pick it up. Now it goes into my chat GPT4. I see it. He gives me a prompt. Okay. So now I can click on continue this conversation. And when I click on continue

this conversation, it's going to open up my chat GPT for, and I can say, can you give me just dinner and make it beef-based? And

boom, I can basically take off and it makes me a nice beef stir-fried dinner. So this is like... It's not quite multiplayer mode. It's handoff mode. Pass the baton mode. It's pretty cool, though. Like, I think this is going to be a bit, like, you know, they are

already had a lot of users very quickly. I think this is going to take it to the next level because... This makes it slightly viral. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The problem with this is, what it should be doing is it should be creating a group session. I ask a question.

It has my name on it. You ask a question. Then we invite Vinnie to it. And then all of us get less fat together. That's the... That's inevitably coming. That's inevitably. And that's going to be super game changer.

And that's really what should be happening in Slack. This is why Slack is slacking off. If I had a Slack room and we were in a Slack room and there was a Slack bot the Slack bot could be there while the three of us start a conversation and then we just say at Slackbot

or Slack AI tell us whatever and I don't know why chat GPT4 doesn't have a native Slack plugin that doesn't make any sense it shouldn't chat GPT4 should just make that oh God that would be incredible

just to just have it connected there are third parties that have connected it but it's not dynamic but this is where you want to have it in your work flow. And we're seeing that this is kind of coming. But I guess Microsoft is going to just embed this into office,

into teams, and they want you to go there. Yeah. Yeah, next week we'll try to do, uh, I didn't have a time to get it set up, but we'll do the integration of Google workspaces and all the generative AI. It's pretty cool. Um, it's a huge, huge product to purity boost. We got Adobe Photoshop.

Um, I got one before Adobe Photoshop. What do you? Let's, that's, this is from meta. You know, they've really turned it around. I know J-Cal's been a good trade on J-trading. Great trade for jatrading.com. Yeah. And so what they've launched here is called ImageBind.

And what this is, it's this interface between images and audio and audio and images. And so, you know, I can select an image here. And it's what I'm selecting is for those listening is a picture of a dog. And I'll play this and you'll hear sort of a dog barking. It can also go in the other direction where if you give it some audio and this audio is of birds singing. And this is called image bind? Image bind, and it's by meta.

It's in their meta. Image bind by meta. So if you just do a Google search, you'll find it. Yeah. So hold on a second. Let me just make sure that I'm getting this correct. Okay. You picked an image and then it played you a sound

knowing what's in the image. Correct. Or it can make an image based on a sound. Correct. Oh, that's interesting. Now they haven't opened this up freeform. I can't put my own images or audio in, but you can imagine that they're just,

they have it working and we'll get there quite soon, which is really impressive for a number of use cases, especially for like accessibility use cases for folks. Ah, that's a great idea. So I just took a picture of us at the Kaigo from the beginning here. And then you click a button and it describes it for somebody who's blind. Yes. Or somebody's deaf and it takes a sound that.

track that Kigo is playing and it gives them a description of it in text. Description of it. Yes, correct. Oh, wow. Super powerful. So image to audio, audio to image, text to image and audio, yada, yada, yada. Really interesting. Yeah. So if you go to text, if you go to that top toolbar, there's text to image and video.

So if you click on drums, it just makes you both. That is super compelling. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And this goes back to so much cool stuff. is coming out that this is so powerful for all of tech. And this kind of stuff I can see just for accessibility

and other things, it'll be tremendous for folks. Yeah, this is, I mean, and if these models are at this good now, it's just out of the gate. These are really interesting. I don't know exactly the use cases for this. I do like yours, which is accessibility,

which is the general term for people who don't know of making products accessible to people who, you know, are deaf, blind, whatever the case may be. And so accessibility is super important. Wow, really nice. All right, listen, I have invested in hundreds of early stage startups. I've seen thousands of pitches. One of the things you want to have is a strong domain name.

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They did some announcements. I saw that on the docket. Yeah. Yeah. So they had a. That's their big conference. Each tech company has these, you know, sort of all the time. And the basic, I'd say the summary there was they have brought generative AI capabilities,

obviously via their partnership with Open AI into all aspects of Windows. And so, you know, this is sort of, I guess, the next frontier where within your operating system, it's integrated everywhere and everything you're trying to do. whether it's a task, you know, web-related, whether it's task on your computer itself. And so it's a full integration. And the interesting thing is, like, there was a lot of comments, you know,

this happened in the 90s. And if you know, you would remember this guys, right, desktop search, but when they brought internet explorer into the operating system, right? And this turned into a really, you know, big kind of war for them for a while around, you know,

kind of monopolistic behavior. Bundling. They're bundling, right? And so they're kind of, you know, they're taking that approach again and really kind of using it to create a highly integrated experience. You know, today you have your operating system and then separate somewhere you're going off and doing all these AI things. They're just kind of bringing it all into the operating system. So no matter what I'm doing, if I'm using Slack, they're going to have like a chat GPT AI. I don't know what Microsoft's calling that AI, but it will be in my task bar.

So no longer will I have to add AI to notion. or Slack, I will also have the option of using, if I'm using Windows, having Windows AI work with whatever software I'm using, which reminds me of this company that I had on the podcast called Rewind.A.I. I don't know if you've seen that. Yep. But this company has raised a ton of money at an extremely high valuation and the founder wrote a deal memo and then had people fill in a form to give their best offer in a bunch of D.C. against each other. Pretty crazy. I don't know if you saw that. Really fascinating guy.

And he didn't take the highest bids for this, but what they're doing is Rewind AI is recording everything you've ever seen, said or heard on your desktop. So every Zoom call, this call, would be recorded and put into their AI model on your desktop or your AI model. Then if you said, hey, you know, I was talking about Blade Runner, and it just went back and was like, yeah, here's Blade Runner, you were talking about it on All In, here's Blade Runner, you were chatting with somebody on I.

message, here's Blade Run, you're talking to Sunny about it. Just every mention of Blade Runner I've ever done, right? And it's like, whoa, that's pretty scary. And then I asked them, like, well, what if you get deposed for a legal issue? Yeah. And then your entire desktop and everything you've ever done is recorded in the AI? It's kind of scary. Dan Soroker, episode 1745.

It's a new world that we're in. You know, everything is recorded. everywhere we go. And, you know, I think that's what happens with the progress. But you're tying it back into the Microsoft thing in your Slack comment, what they're going to really be able to do is if the tool you're using hasn't embraced generative AI. And so let's say you're using a tool where you have to write a performance review.

You're at a big company and you're using some kind of workforce management software. Yeah. Exactly. And they don't have generative AI. Well, in the text box, your operating system will be overlay on that and say, and say, oh, you know what, I have to write J-Cal's review. Here's the three or four bullet points. Write me a text because I don't want to write it.

And so it's really going to bring AI capabilities. And it's going to sort of, I also think, like, act, you know, kind of predatory on top of folks that don't bring this capability right away. But it's smart on their part. You're going to have to, if you're doing AI for, for Wait Room, you're going to now have to compete with the operating systems AI. So if you don't do a great job. So I'm also sure that that's true.

So let's just go to the example of Waitroom, you know, across the company, right? If you have 1,000 employees in a company and they're all having five meetings a day on average, that's 25,000 meetings a week, 100,000 meetings a month across the entire organization. Those meetings will be way better enhanced it as an AI list. listening to everything, collecting the information, running summaries, reports, more importantly, tied into stuff that's not at an operating system level. So in the cloud, the HR systems, the, the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Salesforce, CRM systems, whatever it is. And now it's able to put, it's basically,

it's like a co-CEO. It's looking across the company and it's picking out certain things. And so, things like rewind is great for personal use. But how do you connect it to every single person in the company? And I can guarantee you now, not everyone's going to feel very comfortable with recording everything it happens on the desktop. Like, I think it's, I'm like, that's not cool. Yeah, and, you know, there's two-way consent as well. So they're putting, when you're on a Zoom, if you're using Rewind AI, they put a little

chicklet on my video saying, I'm recording to kind of let you know. Now, people have been doing this covertly with software like gong or, or I shouldn't say covertly. I would say, well, how would you describe it? Maybe on the DL, the down low. Illegally, because in California law, you have to actually disclose it. Yeah, but what Gong does is they kind of add another, I believe they add another person to the call. So I'm wondering how.

Oh, like fireflies are the same thing. So here's the risk between, so this is where I think this is going. And I've had this conversation multiple times as we. Zoom has got a platform where people can plug in third-party apps into the platform. So you've got fireflies, fathom, gong, whatever. There's a whole bunch. There's tons of these guys all using AI. Zoom's also announced that they're basically working with OpenAI and what's the other one with an A?

Anthropic as well. And they've announced both these deals. Zoom is going to do what Facebook did to Zinger to all these apps. They're going to kick you out of the store. because Zoom wants to own the entire infrastructure. They cannot have these third-party apps taking notes, joining conversations, being tired. They're going to kick it all out,

and they're going to build this stuff natively. It might take them two years to get there, but they're going to do it as quickly as they can. And all these startups that have built themselves, basically built themselves on top of Zoom are going to be out in the cold. And I know it sounds self-serving, but that's why we built a full-stack video conferencing platform

from the ground up. We are not beholden to anyone. We can build whatever AI features we want. into our application, into our product, whereas I think that companies who are building atop of Zoom are in danger of being kicked out. Yeah, of course.

I mean, this is what happens. So your new innovative features become part of the platform. The App Store becomes the roadmap for the core platform to have other people do the work on product discovery, feature discovery.

Here's the Gong page on sales recording law, just so we're fair to Gong. They're on top of this, obviously, it's a core to what they do. And I actually didn't know this. Look at the map here. It turns out in terms of recording, you've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, maybe twelve states that require two party consent. California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Washington require two party consent. That means both parties have to know.

And the rest of the states don't. So pretty fascinating when you look at the map, like a lot of people. and I wonder how this works. If I'm calling from Texas or New York, which don't require two-party consent. No, it's where the person you're based. It's what you hear on like, you know, when you call Delta Airlines, hey, this may be recorded.

Yeah, but it's also where the person's based. So under California law, you actually have to have that, you know, if you look at the zoom, top left and corner here, that recording red button, you have to have that permanently displayed in California law. Right. But the question is, okay, so, yeah, if I'm calling, from New York to California. Yeah.

I guess the question is, how do you know? How do you know? If I say, hey, J-Kal, you go, hey, Vinnie, how's it going? I'm in Texas today. Okay, but then I'm in California. I go, how does it work? Or you don't ask me where I am. You assume I'm in Texas or another state.

So the problem is back in those days, you had phone, like the phone rules, you knew the area code of the number you're dialing. With IP, you don't know. They can be anywhere. Yeah. But Gong's a position, just to quote their website, we always obtain, from all parties, regardless of the call purpose. But this is like a social norm that's going to have to be really normalized.

It's already in our lives. Like I say, when you call your airline, they already do this. Yeah. I think it's when you are on a sales call or when we do calls with founders who are pitching us, we let them know we're recording the call. You can see it flashing in the top left of Zoom. It's no big deal. And we tell them why we're recording it up front.

Hey, we're recording it so then if you go on to a second meeting, that person can watch the call and then you can have a call. you okay with that. I think maybe one out of 200 people have, you know, maybe say I'd rather not record it. And now there's a power dynamic there. We're an investor. So what are you going to do? Drop off the call and not take our money or not have the chance at our money. So probably we have, you know, it would be awkward for people to say, no, I don't want to. And they're pitching their companies on public stages all the time. We're not like broadcasting it. But yeah, definitely is a brave new world here in regard to the desktop being recorded at all times.

and your privacy. Okay, Vinnie, you had a point to make about runway.m.L or runway ML? They had a big funding round. I think you're going to start seeing a lot more of these big funding rounds coming to the fall because the amount of compute power that's required to do some of these things, especially the infrastructure level, is significant. I mean, I don't know whether you saw Ashton Quitcher just raised a $200 million fund, AI fund as well.

And I think there's a whole bunch of other funds being raised to go off to this infrastructure layer. Now, the real question is how do VCs compete with Microsoft Google? And because they're not... AWS, they're not price-sensitive, right? They're not financial investors. They want to make sure that they get the company to use their servers, their infrastructure, except they're buying customers, they're buying lock-in future. And the VC market's going to be very crowded out trying to chase these deals.

So VCs are going to have to go earlier and earlier stage to, like, get the $100K, $250K,000, 500K checks in at the seed stage because the moment something has a hit or someone thinks interesting, they're going to come in over the top. And if they need, you know, large amounts of compute capacity, it's the big, and I think the competition between Amazon, Google, meta, Microsoft is going to get like really, really hot. And these guys, they don't care. They will pay billion dollar valuations on companies that are only worth 100 just so that they get lock in. So I think it's a really good time to be in AI, but I think that they invest have to go really early.

Yeah, I agree with that. And this company is going to take less funding. That's the thing I think is going to really cause an opportunity and a little bit of hand-wringing. If you raised a $2 billion fund or a billion dollar fund and you need to put in, you know, five, ten, $20 million checks, you know, companies might be like, you know what, I don't need $20 million. I'll just take five or I'll just take two and I only need 20 employees.

I don't need $200. So I don't want to build that huge infrastructure. I'd rather just have a SWAT team here. You know, really like Navy Seals type team. Speaking of Navy Seals, AI plane attacks humans then tower, or maybe it didn't. So a May 26 report written by Aero Society detailed a flight simulation that turned lethal, in quotes, as an AI drone turned on its operator as they interfered with its higher mission,

killing Sam, serviced air missiles. So what happened was here is they ran a training simulation, but I guess the press decided to run with this and say, hey, an operator was killed. So again, back to this hypothetical thought experiment. The press sometimes runs with stories, and then it actually turns out this didn't happen. It was just a simulation. Well, but even they didn't simulate that happening. It was a hypothetical that they could simulate that he spoke of.

about. Got it. So. Yeah. So it didn't even simulate the situation of it turning on it. It was a... Got it. Yeah.

This is the thing where like the press is just doing themselves no favors by running with these headlines constantly or like people with tweet storms where they do like a link baity headline because then it just blows back on you like, okay, well, the next story, you cried wolf. I'm just not going to believe it. Maybe we'll wrap on this one. Japan goes all in on copyright. It doesn't apply.

AI training. This was fascinating to me. So the industry of education said these concerns about potential devaluation of creative work, especially in anime and graphic arts sector, do not apply. So

thoughts on this? This is important. Seems like the wrong call. Well, really, I kind of take it the other way. I think this is what allowed the internet to really, you know, proliferate. And I think if we get stuck in a copyright battle at this moment right now, I think all the

advancements we're seeing will come to a stop and only the lawyers will win. So I think it's, you know, the way I think it, okay, I mean, I think it's worth of debate. My take is if the, you know, if the data is openly available on the internet, then you should be able to use it. if it's behind something and you have rules around it, then you can't use it. I think there's existing laws that govern here. Okay, so just because I'll take that.

I'll just add to that. I think, like, in the same way we had robots. TXT files on the service, we should have royalty. Right? And so you should be able to say, look, if you're using this content for, like, for machine learning, this is how much we charge, you know, some amount.

And there should be some way to remit payments to the, website or the site. If every site up there said, look, I have a blog, you can pay me $10, you can use it for machine learning or $5 or whatever. And, you know, that's my price point. If you don't want to pay it, then don't pay it. And then the crawlers will respect

and that's what it is. License.t.t. A.i.t.t.c.is.a. is what we should have. I think that's a good because let me explain this to you, Sonny. I might want my blog post to be on my blog. I might want my podcast to be free, but I might

not want you to take my podcast and me. versions of me. So I might be open to you looking at it as a consumer, but I would like to put a, you know, I would put A.I.TXT on all my stuff and just say, but does that

robots are TXC though? You don't want it to show up in Google. It's, I may want to be in Google. I may want it to be free, but I may not want you to make derivative works based on. Which is actually the case for me. I don't want people making derivative works for this. You've got Creative Commons frameworks.

You can take one of those frameworks and say, you know, I grant a non-commercial license at this point for free. And maybe you select what it is and then you put a price to it. And then there's a way of remitting money. On a pragmatic basis, a practical basis, AI researchers just love the ability to just do a Bing search or hit some API and just say, you know, here's the database of every anime ever made. Go ahead and just, you know, ingest it and then let me make AI characters and then claim,

well, this AI character is unique in the world. But the training data made it. So that's the problem is I think a lot of these models are going to have to be unraveled and be rebuilt with permissions. That's why Reddit, an open source community is suing GitHub co-pilot, getting is suing stable diffusion. Twitter has said that they want to get paid Kora has said they have a framework like a Creative Commons framework.

I think somebody should automate the heck out of this. Like maybe you're correct, if they use Creative Commons as a starting point and have a Creative Commons to really derivative work framework. I might be okay with derivative works. Creative Commons should actually set up a, they should actually set up a payment mechanism, right? So they should say,

so if a website, you can go sign up a Creative Commons, you can take there, you can choose a license, and then you can earn money when people are using your stuff based upon what license. And instead of,

you know, when a machine learning system or a crawler goes in there, they can decide what they want and they can pay Creative Commons with some sort of account system. And, you know, it's centralized clearing of some sort. You know, it kind of makes it, look, it's hard to pull something like this off, but

it might be worth it because then it would make it worth it. Robotox T and T2 took off only because of Google, right? No one really cared about it until Google started crawling the entire web and people that just are worrying about it. Now every server has got it basically. So it's something along those lines. I think this isn't the best interest of technologists because what we saw happened to journalism where they didn't have a business model and people could get enough from the

headlines in the first paragraph to not click through. Facebook now has had multiple jurisdictions, Australia, Germany, California, say we want you to pay journalists or pay for a license to have even the snippets on Facebook. And then Facebook says, okay, we will exclude journalism. They did that. They called the bluff in Australia. And then they got a carve out for, I think, putting headlines. So they will call out the bluff.

But the better thing to do would be just to pay a small licensing thing. Like, what would it kill Google to say? hey, if we index a news organization like New York Times or Wall Street Journal, we'll pay you, you know, $1 per thousand views of the first hundred words, whatever, 200 characters. You could negotiate, you know, $2 for 200 characters, $1 for 100 characters, whatever you think the value of it is, and then you put ads around it and could be a great revenue stream. Twitter's doing a good job here. We're working with them right now where, you know, in the enterprise level APIs, they allow for

that and in any of the lower level ones they don't, right? And so they've made it quite clear if you want to do that. This is how you get it done. So, you know, the process is already. Is it true the cheapest package is $42,000 a month or something? No, so they, it was, but they just launched a $5,000 a month, which gets you one million tweets.

So what I like about Elon's approach in this, I want to, you know, I guess I do have some insight in knowledge or I have talked to him about it. But I don't have any like up-to-date information, but I have had conversations with them about this. And I think what's good. about it is there were people who had complete access to it who were making hundreds of millions of dollars

but paying very small amounts. And it didn't seem to be a correlation between how much you're making, how much value you're providing to your customers and how much is actually going back to Twitter to maintain the servers. And that was way out of whack. Now, there were also people doing free things

and that, you know, you might want to give an exception to, like, nonprofits or, you know, people automatically posting traffic information. search, whatever. I mean, there are all kinds

of exceptions you could make, but it was grossly, I think, undervalued. And Reddit now has followed suit. I don't know if you

saw that, but Reddit's API, uh, Reddit API pricing is not insignificant. And there are, um, there is a, an app because I guess Reddit was slow to get their apps out there.

There was an app that was a Reddit app using the API. And they say this app, Alien Blue or something. Apollo, the popular Reddit app for iOS, could face millions of dollars in fees as a growth of Reddit's new API model. According to the update posted by the developer, Reddit could charge Apollo roughly $20 million per year

at its current scale. Yeah, Reddit plans on charging about $12,000 per 50 million requests. It's a lot of requests. I mean, yeah. Yeah, Twitter is $42,000 for $50 million. Yeah. So, and you're paying, that, Sunny, for data and intelligence?

Yeah, for tweet data, that's where then putting, you know, kind of a layer of intelligence on top of. I like that. I mean, there are so many great businesses you could build on top of Reddit data, on top of Twitter data, whether it's brand management, competitive intelligence, you know,

just if you're some brand that cares about features, like if you were Breville or Delonge, you know, pick an appliance company, just the ability to look for every time people mention your brand, your competitor's brand, then do some analysis of are they saying they love some sentiment analysis? And then you could, on top of sentiment analysis, maybe they're talking about features.

Then you could put that against how many people replied to it. And all kinds of great intelligence and reporting can come out of this. Is that what you're doing? Is brand intelligence? Well, yeah, brand or just individual for advertisers right now. Advertisers trying to understand the scope of, you know, what's happening. All right. Well, they have it everybody.

Everybody can check out definitive intelligence. just do a search for definitive intelligence or go to definitive.io. Everybody check out weightroom.com. What a great domain name. That costs your pretty penny, huh? Vinny. Not too much.

250. No way. 75 10. No, I don't know. I think it was like 10K. That's it? What a great deal. Congratulations.

And we will see you all next time on this week's service. Bye bye.