This Week in Startups - "The weirdest economy ever," Noma shuts down, Jason demos ChatGPT's iOS app | E1653

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

Back from the weekend! First up, J+M catch up and cover a very strange economic situation. (2:07) Then, the duo covers NoMa, the world's most famous restaurant, shutting its doors due to an unsustainable business model (24:46), before going deep on generative AI news and demoing OpenAI's ChatGPT iOS app! (49:54) (0:00) J+M intro today's show! (2:07) Weekend catchup! Jason's chainsaw adventure (12:29) LinkedIn Jobs - Post your first job for free at https://linkedin.com/twist (14:04) Twitter view counts being a revealing engagement metric, Jeremy Renner's accident, "the weirdest economy ever" (23:17) House of Macadamias - Get 20% off at https://houseofmacadamias.com/twist by using code TWIST20 (24:46) Noma, the world's best restaurant, to shut down due to an unsustainable business model (37:43) Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub - Apply in 5 minutes, no funding required, sign up at http://aka.ms/thisweekinstartups (39:12) Massive wealth transfer upcoming and how that impacts the labor market, Kauffman Fellowship (49:54) OpenAI update: Microsoft reportedly integrating ChatGPT into Word and email, "derivative" AI tools, SOTD: XetHub, ChatGPT banned by NYC public schools (1:02:38) Jason demos ChatGPT's upcoming iOS app, which is currently in private TestFlight beta (1:11:12) Uber trademarks "Uber Air," eVTOL relationship with Joby Aviation, current chopper business FOLLOW Jason: https://linktr.ee/calacanis FOLLOW Molly: https://twitter.com/mollywood Subscribe to our YouTube to watch all full episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkkhmBWfS7pILYIk0izkc3A?sub_confirmation=1

All right, everybody, it is Monday. We had a big weekend, chopping some trees down. But first up on today's show, Noma, the restaurant Copenhagen. That's just amazing. I've been there once or twice. And yeah, big labor story. They're shutting down because they can't use free labor anymore. Yeah.

This is, I mean, I know you didn't see this coming that we're going to open by talking about the world's best restaurant in Noma shutting down. But we're obsessed with it because of that labor story we've been talking about constantly. The other story, we have done. and will be talking about constantly more generative AI or derivative AI. We're coming up with new names for it. Degenerate AI. Degenerate AI.

We're going to talk about the information report that Microsoft will integrate chat GPT, not just into Bing, but apparently also into Word and email. Yes. And yeah, I have a lot of feelings on where this is going. And also an announcement, I'm going to show for the first time the Open AI ChatGPT iOS app. I got invited to the early test flight of it, and I'll show it here for the first time ever on this weekend service. It's going to be a great show. Stick with us. This weekend startups is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. A business is only as strong as its people, and every hire

matters. Post your first job for free at LinkedIn.com slash twist. House of Macadamias is the next big health trend. Get 20% off your first purchase at House of macadamias.com slash twist by using code Twist 20. And the Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub helps all founders build a better startup at a lower cost from day one. Open to anyone with an idea, you'll get up to $150,000 in Azure credits, technical advisory, access to mentors and experts, free dev tools, and so much more. There is no funding requirement and it only takes minutes to join. Sign up today at aka.m.s. This week in startups. All right, it's Monday. My R2 unit is up and running. I'm back in the Bay Area. You don't see snow behind me. 14 days, Molly. I got 14 executive

days in. Good work. Of skiing. You know, an hour and a half to two and a half hours each time. Seven to 14 runs got into a rhythm. Feel great. Feel great. Wait. You would do seven to 14 runs in an hour and a half? something like that. There are these 900 elevation runs you can do real quick. But yeah, I think I is somewhere between yeah, I mean, it's like every 15 minutes

to 25 minutes, you can do a run depending on the length of it. It's 10 minutes. I'm really like the world. Three minutes to 10 minutes down, depending on the length of the run. And then 15 minutes up. You're like, let me do the back of the envelope math

on my ski runs. I am like the world's laziest skier. I like to do four to six long, lazy blue runs and then have a hot tie for the day. Well, you haven't gotten up there yet, but it's a day's worth. We'll get you up there. I make a buttered rum beverage, which is very nice. I sourced it.

It's one of the things, Molly. We're recording the show right now, everybody. But, you know, there's always a couple of things over the long weekends and breaks that we have to catch up on. So I like to give big tips, right? I hate giving to charity, although I do, you know, do that from time to time. but I prefer, you know, giving huge tips. So I give this guy a huge tip. And I say, hey, you know, what's the story with the buttered rum?

You know, how do you make that? And he just took it out. And he said, here, I sourced the buttered rum from this place. You can get it online. Take a picture. And I was like, well, thank you, Mr. Bartender. I took a picture and I ordered a six or eight pack of this buttered rum, which looks like butter. You freeze it.

And then you put a scoop of that in there with a little rum and a little hot water, maybe a little cream or something, whatever you're down with. Then you get a hot little butter spice rum off the mountain. Very nice. Delightful. Life is excellent. Yeah. And yeah.

That was my little winter break. I think we need to address the question that's on everyone's mind, though. Oh, oh, I am not taking the CEO job at Uber. I know everybody wants to know if I'll be the next CEO of Uber. I think Dara's doing a great job. I also will not be taking the CEO job at. Microsoft either. Great job being done.

Actually, I have a totally different CEO job that I wanted to ask you about, though, which I think is the real one that everyone wants to know, which is are you taking the co-CEO job at Salesforce. Yeah, Mark Benningoff. No, Mark Benningoff actually

I'd DM me over the weekend. He was like, hey, I got introduce you to somebody, and I gave my phone number. I said, Obama or Brad Pitt. That was my joke. Obama or Brad Pitt. So who are you introducing me to? Yeah, but seriously, what's up with the chainsaw? So this is a big controversial.

I literally got calls about this. My mom is calling, friends are calling. And I was like, normally I don't. I don't, Cinderella, but in this case, I don't need you, I don't need you cut an apple limb. So I've used a chainsaw before. You know, I've used a chainsaw. I've used a circular saw.

I've, you know, I helped build a lock cabin in my youth. I've done physical labor. I know it sounds crazy to be, oh, you know, people only know me in my 40s or something. So we had a tree or two fall. Now, I had a redwood that was dead that they told me I had to cut down. I don't want to cut it down, but they're like, it's going to fall on your neighbor's house, going to fall on your house. People could die.

Yeah. So we had a pro come. This is not cheap to take a redwood tree down. You know, they're quite high and it's tens of thousands of dollars. And, I mean, you get some nice piece of wood out of it. But anyway, long story short, during this water, what did they call the rain we had? Atmospheric river slash bomb cyclone, both. Okay.

It's a bomb cyclone atmospheric river. So, you know, around the sides of my house, we have a gravel pathway. It's quite charming. Now I have a plastic path and all the gravel is now on the tennis court. So there was so much rain, it came down and destroyed that. So that's like, whatever, some amount of money to fix that. Then some water got in the gym and the wood floor now looks like it's the deck of like, you know, the Santa Maria or the, you know. It's like warped wood.

So I got to rip out $10,000, $20,000 worth of flooring. I mean, maybe this stuff will be covered by my insurance. Who knows? Anyway, so it was quite damaging. And a tree fell. And then there's another tree about to fall in the front yard. And, you know, it's going to be like 10 grand to chop this thing up. And I'm like, everything in the Bay area.

is 5 to 10 grand and then when you get the bill it's 12 to 25 even in the East Bay I think the East Bay numbers you just cut it by about 20%. And you're like, hey, I need to get this thing done. They're like, hey, that's 3,000 to 8,000, right?

Yeah, then you get the bill and it's 5 to 15. 10 to 15 always, yeah. Yeah, and so listen, I'm not, listen, manual labor's hard, I guess that's why they put the word manual in it. But I'm like, it's Sunday. I don't want to sit in from my computer. I'm goddamn sick and tired.

I'm doing emails and Slack messages and dealing with the down market. It's, you know, it's never ending. Yeah. You just be responsive to email all day long. So I decided I would go buy a chainsaw and cut this goddamn tree up. And so, you know, I watched a couple of videos on YouTube about chainsaw accidents. And, yeah, they fall into a small subset.

And I got in my new suburban. I bought a suburban while I wait for my cyber truck. So I have a suburban. You did? Yeah. I always wanted to have a substand. suburban. Yeah, it's a sick car. Suburban is awesome. You know, I had two

electric cars and then I replaced the minivan with the suburban. I like to have one ice engine just in case, you know, stuff hits the family. Apocalypse. Yeah. Apocalypse kind of situation. I have both options. So anyway, I drive the suburban and I put on like a leather jacket. I put on my combat, my

Danner boots. And I put on I said, hey Siri. I'm a costume up for this. I'm a cosplay. Lumberjack. And I said, hey Siri. Play, this is Leonard Skinnerd on Spotify. I was to put on some Leonard Skinner. Now playing Diet Mousat by Lana Del Rey.

No, no, Siri, don't do that. You got Lana Del Rey out of that? I have no idea with Sarah's day. She's like, she's trying to steer me back to. Amazing. She's like, stay on targets. So I'm like, okay, Siri, play me. This is Leonard Skinnerd.

You know, I just go to my local Ace Hardware. There's a little bit of a head fake because they put an Ace hardware inside of like a inside of, they put like a little corner Ace Hardware inside of a department, a grocery store. It's like, wait a second. That's not what I went.

So I go to Home Depot. Yeah, I'm like, I talked to the guy and said, hey, when I was changed. You really did. You really went to change. Oh, God. Isle 30.

What are you looking for? I said, you know, I've only used gas, but I hear these electrics are pretty great. It's like, they're incredible now. Let me tell you. The Ryobi. And I was like, well, you know, kind of like this other brand,

but, you know, maybe I give a shot. I got a riobe and I went out there and I started cutting this giant tree you know, 50 foot tree into pieces until the chain came off. Like kids do not do this at home. The tension of a tree that size

oh my lord. Like there's the chainsaw alone. The chain chain flying off actually is a way that people die. One. That's one. Yeah sure. Two or be. You know, a varying to varying severity. Sure. Lose a piece of you.

And then there's like the tree itself and the tension of a in trees so that when you release some of that tension, for example, like a huge branch can spring back or a rebound. But you don't know how to do the undercutting and the top cutting. And then the only problem was they didn't have any wedges. You need to have wedges. I've cut trees down before or I've cut trees that have fallen down, I should say. You need to have wedges.

I had no wedges. I ordered the wedges off Amazon. I forgot to pick them up at Home Depot. But I'm going to get the wedges here. Also, the chains normally come off. And I had to tighten the tension was a little off. It was a little loose. and supposed to come with the device

and then I realized I don't have any tools so I don't have to take the lug nuts off I can't receipt the chain so that's coming on Tuesday Wednesday so I'll be back out there

until the week cutting this thing now I was gonna say when is the guy coming when's the pro coming no I already cut it into the major pieces and I'm just to cut the rest of the pieces if you're not dead yet

you're probably fine and I bet it was cathartic Ryobie by the way great like up and coming tool brand I bought their power washer power washer one of the nice things too is with these electric batteries

you know, because of how good batteries have gotten in cars and previously phones. Yeah. Batteries actually charge super fast. They have like superchargers. So you plug the charger into the Ryobi. Like a fan goes off in the charging base station and it charges it fast. And then I was like, oh, I got my suburban here. I backed it up to the trees.

And I was like, oh, I got a plug in the back of my suburban. So I plugged the charger into the suburban, you know, my 110 outlet of my suburban. I'm like, yeah, I'm ready to go. But I was like, I don't have a hatchet. I need a hatchet. I need some wedges. I have my eye production. I don't have chaps.

Producers, you're really missing a chance here to rock some America. If yeah. Like, this is your moment. Right now, at any point in time, they could have pulled up some pictures of the tree. People, when I posted the tray, this might be my most engaged Twitter post. I mean, that Elon didn't respond to. Legitimately.

The ones where Elon responds. The ones where Elon doesn't respond, this is one of the highest. I think I might have a half million people viewed this. And nine out of ten people were like, literally everyone was like don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Go back to the one where he's like, what should I get? Because that is the one that made you sound like you were just like,

I can probably handle this, I'm going get a chainsaw like you had never seen one before. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. No, further. There's my ROI will be charging. I did like a little play by play. Yeah, there it is. That's the one.

Yeah, there's a tree that fell on the property. Any recommendations? Medium-sized tree. Everyone's like, Oh, yeah. So if you click on that. 700,000 views. 742,000.

Yeah. I mean, it's like double CNBC right now. If you're a small business owner and you manage hiring at your company, you know that success in 20203 will depend on the team members you surround yourself with. That means when you're hiring, you want to use LinkedIn jobs. So you get the most qualified, the most motivated candidate. Well, LinkedIn jobs is your secret weapon. How? Well, they match open roles with the people who have the skills, right?

You've seen profiles now where it puts people skills. You also want people with the values and the experiences that you're looking for, right? They have to be a culture fit. They've got 875 million members, the March to a billion at LinkedIn continues. And these are the most qualified people. You know, they take the time to maintain a profile on LinkedIn. So they're very proud of their professional achievements. That's just natural signaling that they're the people you want to meet with first.

And if you got a strong following like me, and I suggest you invest in your LinkedIn following, you can add the purple hiring frame to your LinkedIn profile. You ever see online? It says hiring. It's in purple. Well, that spreads the word. Every time you post to your network, every time someone comes to your profile, they see your hiring, they click on it. And boom, now you're going to get inbound that's even more qualified, right? These easy to use tools are built into LinkedIn jobs, including screening questions, which I love. They filter out the drive-by, non-serious candidates. So it's really simple. The most qualified people in the world are on LinkedIn. We all know that. And in 2023, you want to stack your team with those A players. The A players are on LinkedIn jobs. And that's what we did at launch. We've hired so many great people on LinkedIn. LinkedIn jobs helps you find qualified candidates that you want to talk to, and it helps you do that faster. Post your job for free. LinkedIn.com slash twist. That's LinkedIn.com slash twist to post your job for free terms and conditions do apply. The view count is weird though because it's a, the view count is a very revealing engagement metric. It is, isn't it? Yeah. They originally were going to do it, Molly. I remember in the early days of Twitter.

I'm not sure it says. And they didn't do it because they didn't want people to feel bad who were new to Twitter. So, you know, oh, three people saw my tweet, you know, when you're starting out. Right. But I think what it has done is for people who have a big following, you're like, oh, wait a second, 10,000 people's a lot of people. It is, except that then when you see that, I feel like it doesn't, okay, we're going to do our first story any minute now. Thank you, producer Nick. But I feel like it doesn't have the effect that it should have because what it really showed, like, for example, when somebody's like, oh, you should come and speak because you have this big Twitter following and a lot of people will come and listen. And I'm like, actually only like 1% of them actually are real.

engage or whatever. And the follower account to then replies and retweets and whatever kind of tells that story in a potentially unflattering way from like a brand or engagement perspective. If you are an old brand or you were on the suggested user list, it's pretty brutal. Because what happened was a billion people signed up for Twitter in the early days and then never used their accounts. Yeah. So follower account is probably off. If you were on the follower list, like there were people who were gifted being on the follower list. I offered to pay a quarter million to be on it. I wasn't on it. But you'll see certain people got a million followers, two million followers. And some of them

were journalists. I won't say which ones. But then you look at their actual view counts. They got a million followers. You're like, wow, this person's bawling. But then they have the same, you know, 10,000 or 20,000 people viewing. You're like, wait, 1% of a million, you know, 10,000. So what's going on here? And it was, you know, when you signed up, it automatically signed up for 50 or 100 accounts, you know, in the workflow. Yeah. This is interesting. Now I'm looking back in my tweets. Okay, no, I'm on, I'm on target. I'm staying on target. All right, we have a bunch of Monday news.

By the way, the best piece of advice, though, was David Sachs' reply? Did you see David Sachs? Yes, to survive. I was like, how am I in this position where I'm like, yes, David Sachs, you are correct. You see, you can be friends with the Republican. This is how I started 2023, you guys. This is what Jason has driven me to. You liked a David Sax Street.

David Sachs is right. And then a lightning bolt hit my house. That's what happened. See, because he had sent a piece of advice that was advice for 23, 23 prior to our survival for startups. And then he said to see previous advice. It's pretty funny. So anyway, I thought that was, it's a good time.

You know, to download physical labor. I've decided now I want to do some physical stuff every day. I'm in my 50s. I got to get out there and do stuff. Also, I want to move to the mountains. I've decided. I want to live in the mountains. Let's all go.

I feel like I want to live in the mountains. I got Starlink. I got the, you know, high-speed internet. And then I'm getting the GenTech generator. So, and I'll probably get a power wall or two. So I'll have like, dual, I'll have triple electrical and double internet. That should be more than enough. Yeah.

You know, even during season. And just get like a little, you know, a little pietere, a little apartment in the bay. I already have that. The old office. The old office. Right. Right. You could put crash there.

So, yeah, I just, I like being a mountain. And hey, and Jeremy Renner, I get well soon, brother. Oh, my God. I'm not. That was crazy. Jeremy Renner lives up in Lake Tahoe by me. and or maybe Reno, same area, you know, in the mountains. And he had a snow cat and it fell on top of them apparently.

But he also was kind of like a handy guy who's up there living this lifestyle kind of there. You get back to nature. And his own awesome snow cat that he bought so that he could be super independent and plow people out, ran over him. Yes. I'm just saying he could also be considered a cautionary tale. Yes. About getting too cocky about doing everything.

yourself. I'm just saying, I'm just saying that's an option. I think there's, that's a way to think about it. I'm not a snow cat yet, but I do have a suburban. So I'm on my way. I was actually literally, this is how insane I've got. I can't believe like Montana Molly is over here just like, can you just be careful with the tools? Like, I literally started looking up like, hey, how do you put a snowplow on the front of a suburban? Can you put a, can for sure do that? And you should.

And I was like, then I can clean people's driveways. And then I realized, oh, wait a second. I'm a one percent or they're supposed. service that already cleans my driveway that I'm already paying for. I don't need to You're like, I'm not paying for the chainsaw thing, but Yeah, I'm not paying for that. I get it. You want to feel like that. A lot of news going on. Yep. And also, by the way, it falls under austerity.

I am in full austerity mode. Just because I feel like Jerome Powell is trying to break everybody. And I'm like, all right, pal, you want to break me? Let's go. I'm cutting my own tree down. I've already been making my own Cafe Dumont, cold brew coffee, so that's money blue bottle is not going to get.

Blue bottle can lace and people off. The poor guy who was going to cut this tree down, he lost a 5, 10K job. His kids are not going to college because I'm going to also do my neighbor's two trees. And so that's one year of college, his kids are not getting. And that's it.

Break the economy, Jerome Powell. You wanted us to take austerity measures. That's it. Here we go. I'm moving to the mountains. It's really that. This is really like the all-in influence. No, I just feel like, I mean, like, when is it going to end?

It's a disaster. It feels like a disaster movement. No, like that jobs report on Friday was amazing. Like, it's the weirdest economy ever because it's super unevenly felt. The jobs report on, hold on, hold on, I got to look at the specific numbers because I don't want to like screw it up. In short, we got more jobs. Yeah. Then anybody had expected.

It was like booming. There, I mean, it wasn't like booming, but it was a market that topped expectations. The unemployment rate is three and a half percent. We still cannot find people to work at like, you know, wage growth was, and for the Fed, God help us, because this is how our economy works. For the Fed, this is good news that wage growth was below expectations. Right. Meaning wages are not, you know, and if you annualize actually inflation over the like back six

months of the year. Sure. Is it like two, two and a half percent? Like exactly where the Fed wants it. Ah. So, so actually the stock market is booming today because they're like, I mean, you know, who knows with the Fed, but everybody's like, well, maybe the rate raising will not be as aggressive after all in February because like we had this good jobs report and like wages

are slowing down and inflation is significantly slowing down. Like, but there's this tech apocalypse happening. It's like right in our sector and it's easy to, it's sort of like how it's kind of, I would always say the stock market is not the economy. The tech industry is not the economy. It's a big chunk of it, though. But for us, all apocalypse are local. You step on an app.

All apocalypse is are local. I like that. It's like your zombie. No zombie apocalypse. Yeah. At Disneyland. No. Right.

Right. But our house. Just in San Francisco and the Bay Area attack and everything. Well, here's the thing, too. You know, like he wants, they capelates, rates artificially low. They printed all this extra money. And then they said inflation is going to be transitory.

And now these are the same people who are saying, well, inflation is going to be here forever and we have to break employment. And I'm like, did you just say you want to break people's employment and their 401Ks? Like, wait, how does this make sense? And I guess that's how they, that's their tool. I mean, honestly, we did a whole episode at Marketplace on like, and I will take credit for this idea. I was like, hey, you know what?

It kind of seems like maybe we should like not listen to economists. like maybe they like don't know what they're doing and we had this professor of economics from like the london school or whatever to come on and be like yeah no they don't know what they're doing i just feel like the age of expertise in charge of policy across the entire government and the fact is they're using you know the tools for the last recession to fight this one and this recession makes no sense like i will never be on board you know i had this little argument with you and brad gersner like i think there was every reason for team transitory to believe that inflation was transitory because the externalities of a pandemic-induced shortage of goods had never been seen before. Like there was no way to say for sure. And again, there are still boats. I can still see cargo ships stuck in the port of Oakland outside my window. And now we risk like all this stuff collapsing because maniacs like me are cutting their own trees down.

People are making their own coal brew. And I think everybody's going to go like into full austerity. measures and they're going to realize, you know what? Asteroity measures feel pretty kind of cool. It's kind of cool to cut your own tree down. It's kind of cool to stay at home and make some food. It's kind of cool to do a staycation or maybe go in an RV or whatever it is. You know, like it's really funny because the way you're describing austerity measures

sounds exactly like how I like lived to the pandemic. Which, to be honest, I kind of missed. Yeah. I kind of miss it. Oh, did I miss that trip to Europe all that much? Maybe not. Right. But I learned how to like grow charred or whatever.

You know, I don't know. Yeah, and it was kind of cool. Let me tell you about House of Macadamia. Yes, this brand has a special place in my heart because the founders, Carmen and Brandon, well, they're twist listeners. They've been listening to this podcast, and they told me that they got inspired to start this company after listening to this very pod and reading my book, Angel. In fact, their first angel investment wound up hitting it big, and they used the returns on

that angel investment to start a nut business. These people are crazy. They're nuts. They started a macadamia nut business, and it is delicious. You can see the graphics on the screen. All nuts are not created equal. Peanuts, almonds, cashes, walnuts, those are, you know, they're good nuts. But macadamias are the elite great nuts.

They're higher in omega-7s. And that's been linked to fat loss and natural collagen. They have more healthy fats. They have less carbs. And every product is vegan, keto and paleo. I love these. I love the dark chocolate covered ones. That's just me.

They have beautiful macadenae. Bar's buy some of these. Keep them in your desk draw. That's a healthy snack for you to have. They also have some zesty, spicy ones. If you have that kind of a day, I like to do that if I have like a nice iced tea and I can pair it with a zesty salsa dry roasted. So here is your call to action. Support a founder and have great macadamia nuts that are healthy and delicious. House of macadamas.com slash twist. House of macadamias.com slash twist. Right now you get 20% off by using the promo code twist 20. That's right. 20% off. House of Macadamacadamias. Damas.com slash twist.

Speaking of growing charge, I hate to jump all over the place, but I saw this Noma story. We didn't get to hang out for a while, so. I know. I just feel like this Noma story is going to just become like a great debate here on the show. Have you ever been to Noma? I went to Goost, which they call mini Noma in Copenhagen, because I couldn't get into Noma, but I feel like I went to the like indie band version of Noma. So I've been to Noma twice.

My guy, Tyler, who was based out of Sweden for a bit and did the Sweden, the tech meetup there, became friends with this guy. And so for my birthday, my friend Tyler took me to Noma and, you know, like Santa, eight of us, whatever. It's an incredible experience. For people who don't know, this is the height of fine dining. That's the best restaurant in the world. Best restaurant in the world, basically. And it's not, but the best restaurant in the world, you would think like the best hotel in the world, the Amman, if you want to say at Amman, Geary, that fancy looking place everybody takes the pictures of on Instagram, I think that's

$2,500 a night. My beloved Amman Hotel, Tokyo. When I went was $1,400 or $1,400 at night, now with the exchange rate, it's a $600 to $800. It's a pretty good deal, and I'll be going there in March. But it's only $500 a person to go to Noma. So it's within reach, let's just say. And anybody who wanted to go there, I mean, if you're a DoorDash driver, you could work, you know, they make on average $36 an hour, so you could work two shifts and you could

got a fly to let's like you still got a fly to Copenhagen and stay there and whatever as as as you know like if you're talking about the literal like it has been it has been deemed the best restaurant in the world for what over a decade it dethroned the french laundry it has three Michelin stars like it is top so yeah for five hundred dollars a person that is considered quite accessible for this level it's accessible for what you know being the best in the world like a buggadi's whatever a million or two million dollar car. That's the best in the world and a, you know, Prius is 30 or 40. Anyway, they are shutting down.

Yeah. At the height of their success. Yeah. Like we, and we're just going to acknowledge now that no, this is not a tech story exactly, but it is right on target with the labor conversation that we've been having nonstop. And we just blew up our group chat over this this morning. So I read the story and I predicted what the story would be about in the group chat. and then listen to it.

So like, I did exactly what Twitter tells you not to do. Are you sure you want to read the story before you retweeted? I'm like, nope, I have an opinion based on the headline. So my opinion based on the headline was,

this is a generational labor story based on the fact that people in fine dining work for free. And sure enough, I was exactly right. People go, there's 200 people working there. I don't know how many seats they have. But when I was there,

I watched like at least 12 people around the table preparing our meal because you can see it. You walk through the kitchen and they create you. And they're like putting flowers that have been painstakingly pruned, you know, one out of 300, you know, flowers. They go pick in the woods. People put in 12, 16 hour days. It's like working on a startup.

They don't get paid. It's internships. Free internships is that. They're called stages. It's actually what you do. Yeah, when you're a chef, you, when you, your internship is called a stage spelled like stage. but you do these stages. I have a lot of chefs in my life.

So this stage is so valuable in the world that if you were to do it for a year, you could go work at any restaurant in the world. In fact, the TV showed The Bear, which we all love. Did you watch The Bear, by the way? I don't know if you. Oh, yeah, love the Bear.

The bear, he is, comes to take his brother's steak shop in Philadelphia, where Chicago, whatever it is, and he comes back from Noma with this Noma cookbook. And of course, his number two, right in the bear gets the Noma cookbook it starts going through it i think they literally show the Noma cookbook yeah i had totally forgotten that it was Noma but you're totally right

yeah i am pretty sure somebody correct me if I'm wrong if not they allude to it being Noma but I'm pretty sure it's like pretty clearly Noma like when you yeah yeah no it's a great catch yeah so it's pretty clear that he studied abroad and and you know if you just type in Noma and you pull up a picture from anywhere on Google you'll see like 10 of these people. Now, these people at some point have children or a mortgage and they don't want an internship, they want a job. And it turns out at 500 bucks, if you do 100 covers a night, even at 100 bucks, that's 50 grand. It can't even come close. Yeah. It can't even come close. But like, you know, you watch these folks. That's the number of people work at NOMA. It's bonkers. And the story noted, by the way, that the intern program, the stage program, supplies 20 to 30 full-time workers, stagiers, 20 to 30 unpaid employees who are literally,

and then you come there as one of these unpaid interns, and they quote this woman in the story who went there, and she's like, yeah, I didn't, I barely even took my knife out. She didn't go and learn how to cook. She learned how to make a little beetle out of fruit leather. And she spent her entire time there doing that. But so, like, nothing, this is so fascinating as a labor story,

because everybody, like, if you've ever, I mean, if you've ever even read Anthony Bourdain, right? Like, the thing about the restaurant industry is that it's abusive, brutal. It's full of sexual harassment. It pays nothing. This stage thing is like the biggest scam going and has been for decades because you don't just do one. You do like 10. Like you're expected to spend maybe up to two years going around and staging for free at various restaurants.

But what is so interesting. as a labor, like a generational revolution story, is that like all this has been coming out, Renee Rizepi, who is the chef of Noma, there have been accusations about this treatment and this abuse and this bullying and whatever that have stuck, right? That it's like all of a sudden,

all these industries that we were just like, yeah, they're totally abusive, it's awful. Yeah. Wouldn't want to do it. And now it's like, it turns out maybe you can't freaking do that. And like workers are not having it anymore.

And that's where it becomes generational. And I'll take the other side of it, if I may. I'll play a little devil's advocate here. Oh, I'm not saying that's the side. Is that the side? No, no, no. That's what the story says. Yeah.

I mean, there is a side here that like this is abuse of the people. Put it aside, obviously, drug abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, that stuff. I'm talking about like, is it abusive to work for free or for almost nothing? I'll take the other side of that. For 60 now. Okay, go for it. As a company builder. Feel free.

I, if he had charged, the mistake he made was he should have done what NYU does. NYU charges $80,000 a year. They charge $350,000 for an undergraduate degree, and people laud them. And these NYU professors out here, like on CNBC telling you like valuations and ethics and morals, all these dipshit NYU professors are telling everybody how to live their lives. while they are scamming students out of $350,000 undergrad for a degree that will never make them more than $50 or $60,000 or $70,000. So here's what the Noma Chef should have done.

No, I'm not, it's not, I'm talking about the guy on CNBC. I'm not actually wasn't. Not him. I forgot that. He's of the same opinion. He's not allowed on CBT protocol takes. I'm talking about the other guy. He's of the same opinion about the 80 grand.

So like, there's a guy on CNBC all the time. time, who just attacks tech companies, like, relentlessly from NYU, and they're just like, this guy's a genius. I'm like, yeah, 350 for a degree, a business undergraduate degree? Yeah, okay, sure. So if this guy had just charged people $10,000 every six months, and then gave them a degree and papered them and let them work on the highest end stuff on the line and did, you know, like whatever, I don't know, an eight semester, four year or, you know, make it three semesters a year,

whatever it is, charge people a reasonable amount, and then let them come, you know, as part of it, they have like more of a fellowship, more of a mentoring kind of situation. There would be no problem. So a lot of this is how you frame stuff. And this whole thing happened in the magazine industry when I was coming up. If you wanted to work at Vogue or New Yorker,

they were massively abusive with the free internships. And all the rich kids from the Ivy League schools, parents paid for their apartment or gave them their Pia de T in Manhattan, These were friends of mine. I was like, how do you do this? And they're like, oh, you know, my parents were helping me. I'm like, your parents gave you an apartment and they give you $3,000 a month of living expenses.

Holy cow. My dad gave me a kick in the ass. And take the luck. Yeah, exactly. That's, it tells you why every strata of society stays the same strata. Exactly. And so if you wanted to work at Vogue or you wanted to work at New Yorker or Vanity Fair, you just had to be willing to do a year for free, basically, going and getting people

coffee and returning. In Manhattan. Yeah. That's it. That was before Manhattan. And the same thing in the movie industry. The people complaining need to take a chill pill and say, I'm going to do this. You have to have autonomy in your life.

You have to have agency in your life. If you're going to do the NOMA thing. Wait, I'm sorry. Go back a second. Who needs to take a chill pill? The people complaining who are working 16 hours a day and then whining about it. The ones who are working 16 hours a day for free? Yes.

they need to reframe what they're doing and just say, I'm going to do this for six months. I am going to use NOMA, use their name for six months. I'm going to look at it as tuition. Instead of going to the Culinary Institute of America, which also is probably $100 grand, I'll go work there for minimum wage for free, whatever it is for six months.

I get the NOMA thing. I take a bunch of pictures. I write a blog about it. I document everything. I write a book, sell an e-book, whatever, make a bunch of TikToks, release them after I leave. and I use Noma to get my next gig or start my own restaurant or whatever, which a lot of people have done. But if you're going to go there and stay for six years or two years, then you're opting into being abused.

You have to look at it as a stepping stone. So that's what I don't like about this, because it is kind of cool that they do allow people to intern there who aren't qualified. Now, nobody gets to intern. I don't think you have had, I think you have done multiple free abusive status. as at multiple other restaurants to even get into no money. Okay, I will say there is 100% validity to your take. And that has been, that has literally been the attitude this whole time, right? The attitude has been, if you can hack it and you want to do it, come here because this is the deal.

Yeah. And that you can keep that going as long as you can keep the doors open and what Renee Ritzepi is finding. And that's the jet, this is the revolution, right? like what Renee Rzeppe and others are finding is that nobody wants to take that deal anymore. So like that has been the deal and everybody understood the deal. And now all of a sudden you do in fact have a generation of workers. And by the way, the age range of that generation is bleeding into all of them. But you have this generational revolt.

And it's fed by like it's so interesting how like historically speaking everything comes down to income inequality. If it gets too bad like income inequality is a reality. It's a power law situation. If it gets too extreme, there is always revolution. And so the roots of all of this are that people are feeling at the bottom end of the spectrum that the deal doesn't work for them anymore. They're like, look, we made this deal. We know that some of you are going to get really rich.

And most of us are not. But if we're okay and we can survive and we can pay the mortgage and we can have a good life, fine. We will not revolt. but when it gets too extreme and too abusive on either end, there's always a revolt, and now you're seeing this revolt, and people are just like, cool,

I understand all the words coming out of your mouth. You're telling me that's the deal, and I can take it if I want to. I don't want to. So then all of a sudden, Noma, the ballet, like startups, right? All of a sudden, everything that has relied

on people's willingness to take the deal is starting to crumble, and it's going to be crazy. A non-market deal, a lower than market deal, somewhere between zero and, you know, whatever, 25% less than market, right? That's where people would start to feel at 15 to 25%. So, yeah, I think that might be part of the cultural revolution going on here. All right, everybody, I want to take a moment to thank our friends at Microsoft.

Today we have Lahini R. Natchelam with us. She's a senior director of platform and growth at Microsoft. She actually created the Microsoft for Startups Founders, Tom. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Jason. and thanks for having me. So tell us a little bit about the Founders Hub. Why did you create it?

Yeah, so we built Founders Hub based on the feedback from hundreds of founders. We spoke to founders at all stages of their journey, so ones that were just starting out with an idea, to those that had actually built successful companies, just to better understand what their challenges and pain points were as they were building their businesses. And we found three challenges that kind of rang true regardless of where they were in their journey. The first one was that founders need access to coaching

and advice to get to that next milestone. The next is that they need to accelerate the time it takes to actually build an MVP or their second product or their next set of features. And of course, founders need capital to actually keep them afloat as they continue to build their companies. And so Microsoft for Startup's Founders Hub is a digital platform built to help founders with these challenges. Thanks so much, Lahini.

If you would like to check it out, go to the Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub and they have no fundraising requirements. It's open to anybody. If you're a founder, they want to support you. It takes five minutes to apply and startups can get up to six figures of benefits instantly. Sign up for the Microsoft Startups Founders Hub today at aka.m.s slash this week in startups. I think a lot of it has to do with how rich people's parents are. There's this big, massive wealth that's about to be transferred from parents, or boomers, whose homes and 401Ks, even despite this, you know, blip on the radar here in this recession.

Generally speaking, they have so much money, they can float their kids. And they had a smaller number of kids. They didn't have five kids. They had one or two kids. You got millions of dollars in the bank. You're dying in 15 years. You're like, you know what? I'm going to give my kid a credit card.

I'm going to give them. You know, I got this house that's worth $3 million. They're eventually going to get it, you know. I mean, that's a big, that's a huge part of the income inequality story, too, is that actually, as we were just saying, like, the strata's always stay the same. like generational wealth is now baked in. So if you're in that upper end of the spectrum, you're going to stay there and you don't have to stress and you don't have to work.

And if you're not, you're probably feeling the reason people are not taking these deals anymore is you're probably feeling like you're never getting out. But also, you're totally right. Like if you're the kid whose parents could afford to send you to culinary school and you had all of those opportunities and then you're just like, no, I'm absolutely not going to go get my ass kick, 16 hours a day by this nut job.

Yeah. I had played with this at a moment in time because so many people want to come work for me and learn to be venture capitalists, right? And I was like, I get no less than 20 emails per week. I'll come work for you for free. I know that email. That means I have to mentor you. I have to take all this time.

You're going to bounce the second you get an offer. Like, no, it's not worth it. Right. So we don't do internships. Everybody's like, oh, every new person who comes to work for me, Hey, let's do internships. I'm like, nope. Let's hire world class people or develop world class talent. Either we're hiring Steph Curry and Draymond or we're developing Steph Curry and Draymond. That's just my philosophy. Either we're going to, I guess who, I mean, okay, they recruited Kevin Durant or they developed.

I think they developed, right? Steph, Clay and Draymond. So that's just my approach to it. Like I don't want to deal with this. I don't want somebody resenting me, etc. But I had people who said like the Oakland days. Okay, yeah, sure. Moneyball. Yeah, and I had people offer me all the time, like, hey, I'll pay you to take my child and teach them and give them an internship. And I was like, well, that's interesting. Then I was like, I still don't want to deal with it. And then there's like this Kaufman Fellows, I found out.

Kaufman Fellows, I'm sure it's a nice group of people. I don't know if it's a for-profit or nonprofit. You've heard of this group, Kaufman Fellows. I know. Here in the Bay Area. It's basically like you get a fellowship and then you learn how to be a, a veteran. capital. And I was like, oh, my God, that's so charming. How great. How does one, you know, I'll, I'll refer people to the Kaufman Fellows, you know, who are, you know, looking to break into VC. Oh, my God,

you know, this is so generous of them to, you know, provide this service, you know, two years here in this holistic program. Do they pay? It's mad expensive. Of course it is. It's, it's, it's like the greatest dragon I've ever seen. Yeah. I mean, it's just an NBA. It's just like a different, yeah. Hold on a second.

I gotta pull you up. It's a, okay, hold on, guess, don't look, Molly. I'm not looking.

Okay. Tuition for the two-year program. It's a part-time program, I guess, or you, actually, no, you can't work during it.

It's a two-year program. Um, yeah. Yes. God, it must be, it rendered you speechless. Is it more or, less than a suburban.

The base model or the grand model with every single feature that I got. I'm going to say it's as much as the grand model suburban. Is it 150? 80K. 80K. I think mine was like 85. That's one of the reasons I wanted to buy a suburb. It's a very reasonable price for like a car given like it's $80,000.

Kaufman Fellows is $80,000. And you don't get a degree at the end of that. So you pay a $80,000 for this two-year program and you get warm introductions? You get a network. Hoffmanfell's is a lifelong network for growth acceleration and connection to capital. After graduation,

I mean, this is just like the worst. You just pay for a fraternity, basically. Basically, yeah. I mean, this kind of stuff. I'll be totally honest. There's your program for you, but I was just looking at like what you get for it. I don't want to make this like a,

I don't want to dog them too much, but I always meet these folks. because the Coffman Fellows can't stop emailing me. Fascinating. So the whole idea is they figured out, you know how it's hard to break into venture capital? Coffinbell is like, yeah, yeah, it's really hard. You know what?

Give us $80,000. We'll show you how to break it. And well, yeah, it's just, that's the fast pass at Disneyland. This is beyond the fast pass. I don't know what this is. I mean, this feels like more like, Coffin Fellows feels more to me like,

like when that celebrity, like, paint the picture of the person on the lacrosse. and had somebody take their estate teas for them and got a bit to Stanford. Like, varsity blues. It feels like a little bit more like a little bit more like, I don't want to say. I mean, I'm sure these people.

After graduation, your time as a Coffman Fellow has only just began building necessary relations of conducting business with integrity, investing confidently, are all a result of reliable network that becomes your most valuable resource. Our network is a deep pool of knowledge on deal flow diligence and follow on financing, but comes with the additional benefit of veteran experts, helping you develop strong communication skills,

navigate, fundraising, building customer partner, Trumbus sharing. You know what? I should do this. This seems like a really good griff. I was just thinking I was like, don't,

I'm like, don't diss it too much because one, maybe they would pay us to start teaching stuff or we should just launch it. I do Angel University already. I teach people, maybe I should do my own venture version of this. I think that's not a terrible idea.

$8,000. Yeah. And then just be like you can meet everybody. I mean, I teach Angel University. It's like it goes to charity. I think we charge 300 or 500 a seat and then the profits go to charity. Founding universities free.

Anyway, this is a kind of stuff. We need to start this as a profit center for sure. Did you have more of that charity? In the age of austerity. In the age of austerity, yeah. We'll get some revenue streams going here. All right, there you go. A network 27 years in the making.

$80,000. This is what Noma should do. No, and I think this is what Noma is doing. Well, yeah, what is the punchline? Yeah. Is that it's going to because they can't get a, anybody to go and work there for free for school. It's a school.

It's a school. So now they're just going to make it a teaching, which actually is what the other, remember the previous best restaurant in the world, El Bougi, was in Barcelona. I'm sorry, it was in San Sebastian or somewhere in Spain. Those two brothers then started like a teaching university instead. And then they would do these pop-up restaurants. And I went to one in Barcelona called 40 degrees. I heard about this.

Oh my God. 40 degrees is probably the best eating experience I ever had in my life. And it was one of those El Buiu brothers. And it was only there for like a year or something. And so Renee Rizepi is going to do the exact same thing. Started as turn Noma into a place where people will come to kind of learn, but actually maybe learn. And then they'll have these pop-up things. Yeah.

You made no money from doing this, Rzeppe. Red Zepi. That's the other crazy thing. A full-time food laboratory is what it's going to become. And then it'll feed the e-commerce operation called NOMA projects. The dining rooms will be open for periodic pop-ups. And yeah, he made no money on it because he didn't charge enough. I thought that's where you were going to go earlier,

which is like maybe he should have charged more for Noma. Because this gets back to that minimum wage conversation we were having. Like, restaurants are going to have to cost more. You can't serve a meal like this for 500 bucks. If you have, I was actually trying to do back of the envelope math. Let's say 10 people worked on this birthday party's meals, which I think was probably about right. It's like one to one.

But maybe it's like two to one because of all the prep work. So let's say like, I don't know, I'm trying to think 10 people, 10 hour shift, 100 hours going to the meal at, you know, $20 an hour, whatever. I mean, because in Copenhagen, minimum wage is much higher too. Maybe it's 25. I don't know. So what's some of the highest in the world. So now you're talking like it should probably be priced at 1,000 or 2,000 a person.

It should be. Right. and because that pricing only worked because 20 or 30 of the people working there at any given time were not being paid. Right. So the only way you're ever going to get ever, this level of food at this price ever again in the future, if this revolution holds, this is robots. Yeah. Or just, you know, maybe lowering the standard.

So the idea of like, you know, people have to like spend seven hours prepping this stuff. Maybe they have to spend two hours prepping it. It's just not going to be as outrageous. I don't know if people will tell the difference. I mean, I don't mean to be super controversial, but like the history of capitalism throughout all of human history is that you can only get stuff for less than it costs to make that stuff if you figure out a hack for unpaid labor.

And historically, those hacks have always been pretty bad. I mean, automation helps along the way. That's what I'm saying. Robots is the only, like, right? You can never have a $500 Noma dinner again if you have fair labor practices without robots. Robots, yeah, yeah. or yeah, you got to, I also wonder if like some of the dishes they did if the people who were eating it would even know the difference if they spent half as much time.

And I think the answer is half of the effort is for the chefs. Like I think at least half of it is for them to feel like they did something elite. Yeah. That's kind of honestly why I like, I sort of swore off fine dining after I went to like a Atelier Cren in San Francisco, which is, you know, was amazing or whatever. But I was like, you know what? kind of tired of like as a as a customer. I'm also kind of tired of just being like, this is your vision.

Yeah. And I'm just here for you to force it upon me, if you will. Right? It's just like, okay. Three hours also is a little too much time. I like, I like an omacasa if it's like 10 dishes or less. Like I can do that at a Japanese restaurant. But when you get to fine dining

and it gets to like the 16th dish, I feel like you got to wheel me out of the place. It's a little much. It's just like Christopher Tenet and the whole, right? It's just like it's it's like these Artis being like, this is my singular vision, and I'll do whatever I have to, do the people and the customers

in order to achieve it. And I'm like, okay, I'm not interested. I guess we should touch on this. Continue of chat GPT, taking over the world, opening eyes relationship with Microsoft keeps, we keep turning over cards there. You know, we had the,

I guess last week we talked a little bit about my prediction that, like this would find its way into search. And obviously, a lot of startups are being built around SEO. copywriting, journalism, anything to do with writing or images,

you know, this kind of derivative AI. I like to call it derivative AI because I think they're building things derivatively off of other people's work. So I'm going to dub it, derivative AI. Interesting.

What are they calling it? There's another word for this AI. Generative? Generative. I'm going to call it derivative. I don't like generative, because I don't think they're generative. because I don't think they're generating the idea.

I think it's derivative AI. So let's just call it what it is, making derivative works based on other people's innovations. Interesting virtue signaling there. Oh, now you're trying to paint me. I'm just trying to protect the artist here. Generative AI.

That's your virtue. I'm not saying it's negative. I'm just saying as a literal, as a couple of nouns that go together that describe turn into an adjective. I think what we're really honing in that, though, is we are officially in Bubble Watch.

when it comes to these tools. Like the funding for them and then also the promise where is this all going to go and how transformative is it going to be? Microsoft appears to be starting to, at least according to the information on some other reporting,

like Bet the Farm. On integrating this into Word, PowerPoint, Outlook, exactly. All of the office suites. Like basically next generation Clippy. Like Clippy goes from like Johnny number five. to how? Wizards were

wizards were a big part of using these, right? You have galleries. Hey, you're starting a new project. You don't have to start from a blank slate. Here is a birthday card. Here is a sales deck, whatever. Totally.

Yeah. I like this degenerative AI. So generative AI, derivative AI. You put it together. Degenerative AI. Degenerative AI is a degenerative AI. Do what? Yeah, DGN AI, like letter Kenny.

It makes sense, though. Somebody over the weekend was pitching me publicly on Twitter, a founder who had created a tool which allows you to, it puts in your draft folders a response to every email that you get. And so you just sit in your draft folder and you just start on third base. Just like I have, remember I was using like text expander tools and there's one built into iOS. I think they call it text. replacement in iOS, where you type in like a couple of characters and it expands it to be your

address. It expands it to be, yes, we don't, sorry, we don't invest in biotech. Here are some resources for you. So you can basically create these little cut, cut and paste quick keys to, you know, reply to people quicker, but this would do it in the background. And then eventually, obviously, we'll start, we'll just start replying to people and that will apply back to us and it'll just be our AIS having conversations. Email triageer is one. a bunch of these are coming out. So it makes sense. I want this.

And you saw it also with Notion. There's was very cool. You did a segment on that on this show. That was very cool. And then... It's freaking crazy. Gmail finishing the sentence. Right.

You know, as you go, like, here's your next three words. Hit the right arrow key if you want to accept. And like, you typed a date. Do you want to turn this into a calendar invite and all of those things? Yeah. Yeah. And then that turns into, do you want to put your phone on?

Do Not Disturb? Because it looks like you created accounts. So all of these tools are getting more and more common. You're seeing investors jump at it in 2022, according to pitchbook, investors pumped at least $1.37 billion into generative slash derivative slash D-Gen AI companies across 78 deals. That was almost as much as they had invested in the previous five years combined. And all of this leads us directly into our startup of the day. Actually. Yeah. Which is? Which is a company called I'm assuming it's pronounced ZetHub. It's X-E-T-H-U-B.

like GitHub, but Zet. And in fact, it is meant to be a GitHub for intelligent tools. So it was founded by a couple of former Apple engineers who were actually part of an aqua hire. Apple bought their company for $200 million. And it was a machine learning company. And they have since left and raised $7.5 million in a seed round and launched a public beta of this company that basically provides data storage for AI for people who want to build. these intelligent tools. So the idea is you've got all the things that we just described,

like the auto-complete in Google in Gmail, and you've got iOS being like, let me put your phone on, do not disturb. But you also have a bunch of developers who want to build those tools for every other company. And the key to building any AI tool is data and datasets and access to datasets.

But if you're a single developer or like a tiny little company, you don't have, either you can't afford or you can't store, primarily store a terabyte, one to 100 terabytes worth of data is what it takes to train any of these models. So ZedHub comes along and is like, all right, we're a data repository. We will store all of these data sets and let you access them, but, and other companies do this. So it's like AWS, but for data storage. But they'll also let you contribute and collaborate on the data sets and then provide data governance, like tracking of what changes have been made within the data sets to make sure that it doesn't get corrupted because your AI tools only as good as your data.

So there's this really interesting plumbing layer where companies are starting to be able to raise and create solutions around offering you the fundamental layered that you can build on. I think it sounds like a great idea. It's genius. I think we're going to hit commodification. So while ChatGPT is raising at $29 billion, my belief is open-shrase. is going to win this. And I believe open source

needs to win this. If you look at the top open source projects on GitHub, they're all in this category, TensorFlow and stability and Dolly,

these are all open source projects. And remember, Open AI was an open source nonprofit and then flipped to a for-profit. Now they got a $29 billion.

The insiders, I understand this tender offer for $300 million is not new shares. It's existing shares. So it's $300 million being sold. by people, and this is my unpopular belief of the day,

open source community is going to win this. They need to win it. And I think the value is going to be in the data sets. And then people are going to just fork all of these public models and keep contributing to them. Therefore, the idea that like right now, Open AI and ChatGPT allows you to do this, is going to be like, yeah, there's five ways to do that.

And everybody's training on the same data. And it's going to be, yeah. Producers, can you bring up the reply to Jason's tweet right there? Oh, yeah. Did anybody reply? Yeah. That first reply is kind of everything. It's everything that you're saying, but it's everything that ZetHub just launched.

Yeah. The first reply, the protocol that incentivizes structured and labeled data, ML ready data, to be open and tradable. probably wins the AI race. That sounds to me, and listen, I could be wrong, right? Because these are all complicated topics. But it kind of sounds to me that that's what literally launched today. Is that exact repository for structured and labeled data,

and it has data governance built in. It tracks when you make changes to the data. And then it allows for open collaboration. Seems to be kind of the key. Like they just provided the open sort of the GitHub cement layer for building all these tools. This is now going to become a quick discussion. We're going to move from the discussion of who has the tech to who has the rights.

And I'll just pass you a tweet here. Stability, which I guess is really chat GPT's main or opening eyes main competitor. They're doing this in a more open source kind of way. I think they have a chance at winning the day here because they are allowing people to already opt out. So you can as an artist, I think, opt out. attribution and opting out works. Who knows? Chimot said, like, you know,

we have a robot.txte for Google searching. We could have an AI.txte attached to every image, attached to every song, attached to everything. And if you want to ingest it, you have to read that and respect it. And people will just say, you know, you can use this for non-commercial AI use. You can use it for commercial AI use.

You can use it if you give me a citation. So if you in some way use my image in this derivative, work, I want credit for it, and I want to link back to the original. Now, how you do that and what percentage of the AI's mind and decision making went into, you know, if it took a thousand images or a million images, it's supposed to put a million links into the final product, that's going to be pretty hard to do. Right. But we're quickly going to move from the holy cow phase to the, did you have the right

to do this phase and who owns the dataset, which means I think. That's what I'm saying. That's why I think things like this. that hub company are so important. Like this is at the data is everything or the data are everything, depending on how much of a nerdy really are. Yeah. A bunch of data scientists just got really irritated with me for that.

I've given a couple, I've spoken a couple times to the data science master's program at Notre Dame. And I always open by asking them if they say, if it's plural or not. And they're always like, just don't bring it up. Anyway, the data sets are literally everything here. So the ability to be able to do this. collaboration, to be able to do this data governance and labeling is how you will get to attribution, but also how you will get to trustworthy generative AI, whether, you know, like,

you'll be able to say this is a legit data set or not. This one's basically pirated over here. Yeah. Put it in the bin. And people will still access that. Has anybody caught chat GPT using their information? So, you know, when we did like a lot of these tests, Jets, chat, GPT were the first or second result in Google, right? We never connected the two, but is there some long-tail piece of content? Like how to do a party plan for, you know, X, Y, and Z. And X, Y, and Z are, you know, incredibly niche things. And it pulled from one document.

And then you compared the result of chat GPTs to that one document. So if it was like, hey, I want to do like a crossover Greek and Japanese Christmas dinner. And ChatGDP was like, yeah, well, here's how you do like your lamb sushi with some Christmas, you know, you know, presentation. You'd be like, okay, where did that come from? Has anybody linked the two? I haven't heard of that yet. And I wonder if they built into ChatGPT. the ability to say, if this is using less than 100 sources, don't return a response.

So they don't get caught, cribbing somebody's information. I mean, it seems to me that if these tools that are being built are powerful enough to generate this information, they're 100% powerful enough to cross-check the information. We're going to be having a long conversation about the definition of derivative. And by long, I mean, probably the next 10 years. but also I did want to note that I saw like Friday, I guess, what's say,

that New York City's Department of Education has already banned CHAPGT from public school devices and networks. Yeah, exactly. Like, good luck with that. But that again, when we think about, like when we think about this kind of growing bubble, it's going to be the various shuffle builders,

like the data set provide, reliable data set providers and also utility. So like someone's going to build a chat GPT check. checker. Check for chat GPT in your home phone. Whatever. I have some inside information. I was invited to the test flight.

This is breaking news of chat GPT. It turns out chat GPT has an iOS app that they're testing. And I just sent you a screenshot over to our group chat. And here it is. So as you can see, I was just asking it like Bill Gurley's height and it keeps a history of it. So this is, no, I'm not joking. Somebody from the team over there sent it to me. So for the first time, you're seeing they have a,

and I was asking Bill Gurley's height, and then I was, I asked it to write a short play about, like, people debating, uh, the biggest political issues. And I did that while I was taping,

uh, all in. And, uh, what's interesting about this is it keeps your threads, as you can see in a, and it makes history here. And you can start to see like how this app would be very powerful.

Have you read, um, because you can search your threads. Yep. pretty crazy. Now, it doesn't have an audio interface yet, except for the one built into iOS, but you could start to imagine this having,

you know, more and more features. That would be very interesting. Everyone should read to see what the future is going to look like. Diamond Age by Neil Stevenson. It's an old book of his. but it's called the Diamond Age or a young ladies illustrated primer. And there's this interactive device that this girl is using throughout this book. That's her young ladies illustrated primer.

And it's basically, I think it's represented as like a book, but it's literally it's this. It's like just chat GPT in her pocket, except that it's an agent, if you will, like a, you know, interface for the entire world.

It's super, I mean, And this is like some of his most awesome sci-fi imaginings. But I've been fascinated. I think came out in like the mid-90s, right, 95? I've been fascinated ever since I read it with this idea of just having this interactive agent with you all the time to be your friend and to give you information and to give you advice and to tell you everything you need to know.

And like, this is that. You have it. You have it as a freaking chat thread, like a group message. It's pretty crazy. Check this out. I am right here, people. I'm also sending to our little group chat, a video I just made. I did a screen.

I actually did a screen recording, but this is like when you can start to see how powerful this is versus Google when you have it on your mobile phone. Check this bad boy out. I'm uploading it right now. So I just did a search. One of the best restaurants in Yantville. And then it gave me like a pretty good list. And then I asked it, well, which one has the best duck? And it gave me a pretty nice response.

So here I am asking it. You can see, I just type that in. You hit play. I'm the best restaurant in Yonfell. And boom, there it is. It's going to just start. Now, you can imagine it reading this to me, Molly, while I was driving through Yontville the other week.

It would be your young lady's illustrated primer. Yeah. And then I ask it a follow a question. Then you could imagine the next step being, okay, can you tell me which one of these restaurants, has availability, you know, in the next three days between 530 and 7.30 for a table of four. Right. Oh, and P.S. make an appointment, which the Google Assistant can already do. Yes.

I had never done. I just recently used that to make a restaurant appointment and it does the thing where it calls and sounds like a human. Yes. Yes. I literally called and made a reservation and then sent us an email confirmation. I was like, for restaurants that don't take reservations online. Yeah. So this is a brave new world. Congratulations. I have to say, like, these valuations make no sense. So I was talking to some insiders of why would somebody pay $29 billion for Open AI shares? Now, I'm not saying Open AI is not going to become worth a trillion dollars. Maybe they become the Google Amazon of the space. It's possible. But at this point, like, making that bet seems incredibly crazy. And, you know, who's making the bet? Jared Kushner's Saudi-backed firm.

So the Saudis gave Jared Kushner a couple of billion dollars, and then he's buying insider's shares. I mean, I hate to be cynical, but it's not exactly the smart money. Yeah. But Founders Fund is.

So there's that. Well, except that, yes, founders fund is, the Saudis are. If that's true. If that's true. Not smart money, yeah. I'm not saying, no, I'm just saying like, look, if you want to take, if you think that what you're doing is taking over the world, I'm not surprised that those two entities are together on this or destabilizing, right?

Like, I mean, like, this is technology that will destabilize the existing order. Whether that order is intellectual property or knowledge or higher education or lower education. Right? Like, I'm not saying it in the like lead to, but. Well, no, you just said, like, we. in the future. Imagine you have this device in your pocket. It does all of that for you. New York City just banned this because it is effectively invalidating teaching. I don't know if I buy that. These are arguments everybody made about Google, too. I'm not saying

I buy it. I'm just saying if you thought that that was the potential of this technology, you would probably put any money you could behind it. I kind of, yeah, as I said before, I think it's going to be about the data sets. I think Apple wins health with the watch data. I think Tesla and Ways win driving with their data. sets, right? All people running ways in Google Maps have some amount of data, all the cameras on all million Tesla's out there driving on the roads. But you only need to look at the Chinese to know how you should manage technology.

The Chinese, because of their authoritarian nature, can do what your parents would do. Very parental their approach, right? Like, hey, no video games during the week. Hey, if you want to use TikTok, you can, but only for a certain amount of time, you've got to watch math videos. You can't watch people dancing around in their underwear. right? They ban both of those things for kids. You know what they just banned? It's illegal. It's a crime to do deep fakes. Yeah. But speaking of destabilization, if you also want to destabilize everything, you would start with reality, which is what deep fakes do. Just saying, this technology has a lot of potential on both sides, which is why you see China just coming out and being like, yeah, you can't do that. It's kind of ironic. It's kind of ironic. It's sort of ironic. It issued a new policy Friday designed to prevent a spread of fake news and misleading edited imagery and video known as deep fakes.

policy criminalizes the publication of such contact without proper disclosure that it is indeed fake. Actually, if you told me that's what we were doing here in the United States, I'd be like, reasonable. I know. If you told me you have to label a deep fake, I'd be like, sure. Why not? You should have to label an ad. Absolutely. You just said CHAPD should have to label its sources, which is basically the same thing.

Yeah. The other crazy thing is that every kind of like sci-fi version of this is always like, well, you know, it doesn't matter if we have rules because China is going to do whatever they want. So it is kind of a weird development that China actually is like, no, no, no. They're ahead of it. They're ahead of it. EU's going to, well, I mean, we start to think about freedom of speech here, right? We start to think about, we always lean towards more freedom. So this labeling to me does not diminish anybody's freedom.

No. When you watch. But you would never win that argument in some rooms. I mean, if you label, when you go see a movie and it says based on true events, but, you know, a lot of these characters are fictional. analyze, yada, yada, and you know, like, yeah, they didn't actually transcribe what Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton said to each other. There was no recording of what Hillary Clinton or, you know, what, but a pick your Iran contract. Like, they make dramatizations of the OJ trial,

whatever. Some of those are based on transcripts from the trial. Other private conversations, the average isn't straight up made up. Move the story along and make it entertaining. Do consumers really know that when they put that little thing on the start of a movie? I think they do. I think we expect it's BS. I think most people know that this is based on people's memories from 40 years ago or they just made it up. We're headed into crazy times, people. These are the big trends of 2023. We have a lot of show under our belts already.

Do you want to quickly run through this Uber trademark? Sure. I got a tip today that Uber trademarked Uber Air. And I went to the... Uber. Air. You should say that again more slowly because that's a good one. Uber Air?

Air. Air. Air. Air. as in VTOLs. Yeah, that's great. I mean, they've had this, they had blade as an option inside of Uber, right?

So you can order a blade helicopter inside of an Uber app, I believe, for a long time. I know Travis tested. In New York, yeah. And it's getting quite popular. I think I see New Yorkers once in a while, and my producers can look for a screenshot of this. People will show the cost, you know,

when Uber surging, and then compare the Uber surge to the cost. of a chopper. And you can see here, in this one image, UberX, 100 bucks, the chopper,

200 bucks, and a black car, 150 bucks. But there are times when a black car and an SUV is more than the chopper. I think the chopper holds

six people, eight people. Yeah. There's no time on that screenshot. It said, five. I mean,

I would pay an extra $50 to take a chopper to JFK and not be sitting in the back of a car like, re-wr-wr-wr-room. I'm going to barf. You know, I had a rule against choppers, but a friend of mine...

I had a rule against chainsaws, but apparently we don't care about rules anymore. A friend of mine is a heliskier, and he owns a helicopter. And I went for a ride in it, and it's incredibly safe with, you know, really great, you know, pilots and relatively safe. I wouldn't use it... Oh, man. But I will use V-toles when they start in them, because they have the redundancy in them. Yeah. Anyway, this trademark was filed today.

And so somebody just sent it to me. Yeah, this is a big one. And it seems to suggest, and listen, like trademarks are always, this is a fun tea leaves kind of game that can suggest product development over time doesn't always. But it could suggest that over the next few years, we do start to see Uber in a great VToles, which it has been telegraphing. And invested, they're an investor in Joby. Yeah.

Uber invested in 2020, $50 million into the 590 million series. that Joby race. And then 11 months later did another $75 million investment in Joby. And as part of it, that deal, Uber sold Joby. It's Uber Elevate VTol business, which is smart because Uber Air is a way better name

than Uber Elevate. Joby market cap $2.2 billion right now, trading at $350 a share. I think it was a SPAC peaked at 15, now trading at $3. 35% of the SPAC price, all opening SPAC prices are 10 bucks. Yeah.

And Reed Hoffman, Mark Pink is, uh, we're involved in it. I, this, this is like one of those, I don't want to make a J-trade here live on the air.

I know. I'm like, are the guys coming out? Getting a little spiky sense here. Yeah, I think Joby has a shot at being, uh, the winner here.

The cup, it's a, you know, it's a smart guy who's running that company. The founder's super smart cat. Um, and, yeah. So you're telling me,

the next time I'm a JFK or flying out of JFK, I could take a helicopter for $50 more than an Uber black which I always take because they get so car sick that I have to be a big diva about a black car and it would take eight minutes as opposed to the 45 to two hours.

Yeah, 45 is more. Yeah, and then you have to get a car from the, you know, the heliport. And then if you, here's a challenge for the helicopters, no bags. You can have a backpack or a small bag. I think it's like, you can have like a really small bag. But if you have a roller or something,

they drive it to your hotel separately. Really? And how do they get their bag to the airport from the hotel? They drive that also? Like you'd have to send it ahead of time? I think that's a major logistic issue. When you get on the blade,

they take, when you kind of get driven to the blade on a little bus, they take your bag and they will send it in a car with other bags to Manhattan and that person drops off the bags at four hotels and then you get your bag an hour later. Yeah, but what about when you're going to the airport

when you can't afford, probably the time to get back an hour later. That's a tricky one. Oh, no, no, it's the same thing. You go to the heliport in your car. I think it's like there's one in the, I think it's an east side and a west side one. I've flown into both actually.

I should say, I've flown into the east. When I lived in New York, I flew into the east one, East Bay. There's a Hudson River one and there's East River one. I flew into the East River one with Mickey Shulhoff, who was in the CEO on the Sony helicopter one time. That was kind of fun from Teterboro. It took like five minutes.

and then when I lived on the West Side Highway in 26th Street, I used to look out on the heliport there. That was on the Hudson River. I will say another thing, another headwind, if you will, tailwind, sorry, for Uber Air and the VTOLs, is they're electric, right? Because there's a lot of pushback on the sound. And, of course, right?

It is, I guess it's less wasteful to put five people in a helicopter and do an eight-minute ride maybe then. every single person in a suburban for 45 minutes to an hour. But it's not an ideal climate footprint. But if you can be like, these are electric and they're quiet, there was a whole entire New Yorker piece about how irritating helicopters have gotten in New York City. So like this is a bit, I mean, this is just going to be like very consumer.

There's that comedian guy who yells and screams at the helicopter guys in Central Park. I've got that guy's name. I met him. Oh, my God. I knew it must be bad when I saw the New Yorker. doing a think piece about helicopter sounds in New York. No, in New York, it's like these idiots want to like see Central Park. And it's like, yeah, go to Central Park.

It's awesome. Go to Strawberry Fields. Go to the Great Lawn. You know, ice skating, chess, whatever. It's a million, the zoo. There's a million things to do. And they're like, no, no, no, I want to take a helicopter over it. I'm like, you can just look that picture up.

Just look on the internet. View of Central Park from above. Great. Now you don't have to annoy everybody in Manhattan. and then go for a bike ride in Manhattan go for a bike get a city bike go bike around

go to the boat there's a citizen army called stop the chop in New York this is from exactly one year ago in the New Yorker the current civic mood is one of disgruntlement and then they talk about

how it's all about just freaking helicopter noise and people are losing it stop the chop isn't going to take it anymore they should let them do it like one day a week they should charge them extra money to do it

and it's just also too dangerous to be flying helicopters over Manhattan. Silent electric V-toles. Like, that's awesome. At that point in time, that would be fine. Why should anybody be flying noisy chapters? That's ridiculous. It's so dumb.

Over the Hudson shore, if it falls, nobody gets hurt. To play over in hand, everybody dies. Come on. Come on. If you were just zipping over 34th Street, you know, and you're just, you know, going to Teeter Bar, I get it. Right. You know, but to just hover over Central Park,

Well, people are sitting there reading a book. I mean, God, you go to Central Park. You know, it's beautiful. Colic and you just sit there. You can a bottle of wine and loaf of French breads. Oh, let's go to New York. Get a wheel of gray and you just sit in the grass, get a blanket, smoke a jet. Well, I mean, whatever you're, whatever you're into.

I don't want to. You figure out what you want to do in Central Park. I like you just give him the rope is what you do, folks. You just sit here. You let him go. I can't stop. You just let him go. You know, go to.

stay away from the chocolate truffles. I'm going to say an even more old lady thing than to stop the chop people, which is like, I'm so over weed. Wait, what's the, my God. Can somebody just like de-stink weed? Isn't there something Eric Adams should do?

I like that guy. Derek Adams, the mayor, it's like a hardcore guy. Shouldn't he just be like, I ban it? And then get to a lawsuit. Helicopters over Central Park? Just ban it. Just be like, I ban it.

Yeah. That's it. I'm going to go. You know, whatever the law is. Who cares? Just go arrest people. Shut them down or whatever. Be like a dictator.

It feels like it might be time to wrap. Feels like we might be able to be too much rope. What's the place in, where did everybody go in the mission? Dolores Park, yeah. Oh, DeLaurus Park. DeLaurus Park is, yeah, Central Park was classy. Central Park, you'd like, you know, people would get dressed up and you go sit in the grass. You get a nice blanket.

People would actually think about what blanket they're going to bring. They would buy a blanket for the moment. You're going to stop. It's classy. They class it up. So you want Central Park to be. more rich people. Okay.

Understood. No, I mean, a dollar wine glass, but you, in Central Park, you'd bring on actual pair of wine glasses. You drink out of wine glasses because that would be classy. I'm, I don't know what people are. I'm messing with you. Come on. Dolores Park with a box wine and then just be careful. I'm so triggered.

That's all I'm saying. That's a rich guy. You know, I mean, no, no way. Lariths and chocolate truffles may get you. Be careful. Take a good, Dolores Park. Give me a break. All right.

I think that's about enough for us. If you know, you know. If you know, you know. Be careful with the chocolate dramas I was saying. Like you might You might have a little more of a grateful dead experience than a... Don't you keep your shoes on. Keep your shoes on.

Don't do the chocolate truffles or else. Unless you bring like a dead CD with you. You have you got like a dead playlist by all means. But, you know, there you go. All right, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow. We're back, babies. We're back.

We're back. We're back. It's Monday. Literally when we don't go to tape together. Anybody, we're like... And by the way, just go to Jason's chains, services.com. And if you need me to cut a tree down,

anywhere in the Bay Area, it's $5,000 for tree. All right. Tomorrow we'll be back. We have a fun, 2023 development for you. This weekend climate startups is now airing on Tuesdays.

Oh, nice. So we're going to have like a one-two bubble watch. Like today was the AI bubble watch. Tomorrow will be the climate tech bubble watch. So we'll have an interview. I have a story about a big funding announcement. And we'll be talking to a company about

recycling lithium ion batteries like the car size kind. This is a big need in the climate tech world. Turns out we need batteries and we need materials for those batteries and they're trying to harvest and recycle them and pump them out like ready to go

which is what's the kind of the development here. All right. We'll see you tomorrow everybody. Bye bye. Bye bye.