Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - Jon Heder Remembers Napoleon Dynamite, His Kanye Jay Z Collab and Challenges Matt on Nation’s Dumbest

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

 Actor Jon Heder joins the show to talk with Matt Leinart and Jerry Ferrara about his time alongside Matt on Fox’s new reality game show Nation’s Dumbest. Heder tells the guys what got him to join the show, what were his worst subjects, how it was getting to know the cast and compete against them. Plus, Matt gives Jon a little impromptu trivia on his worst subject: Sports. Then Jon talks his star turn as Napoleon Dynamite, how the movie’s success mirrors that of 2026 hits like Obsession and Backrooms and what it’s like to get back into that character. Finally, Jon talks his infamous collab with Kanye and Jay Z and his latest films Waltzing with Brando and Tapawingo, before Jerry has his own round of trivia.   A big thank you to our sponsors:   BetMGM: Make It Legendary. Please gamble responsibly. Download the BetMGM App to get started.    NHTSA: This Moment. Speeding Catches up With You. Paid for by NHTSA.    Uncrustables: Uncrustables sandwiches are ready from your fridge!      00:00 Show open  01:43 Matt talks the Nation’s Dumbest Premiere  04:35 NHTSA Speed: Matt’s longest runs  07:30 Jon Heder joins the show  10:50 Why did Jon sign up for Nation’s Dumbest  12:25 What were Jon’s best and worst subjects?   14:30 Recap of the first episode of Nation’s Dumbest  17:33 The difference between filming movies and a reality game show  20:35 Matt quizzes Jon on sports  28:48 The origins of Napoleon Dynamite  32:26 How Napoleon Dynamite paved the way for Obsession and Backrooms  35:23 Jon’s reaction to Napoleon Dynamite box office  38:50 Jerry learned the Napoleon Dynamite dance for an audition   41:18 Jerry’s Argentia – Spain pick  42:20 Jon improvised the famous Napoleon Dynamite dance scene  45:05 Jon on getting back into character for a commercial and Cameos  47:20 On being featured on “Ninjas” In Paris by Kanye and Jay Z  51:00 Matt gives Jerry his own Nation’s Dumbest quiz  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I do know you did something for the 20th anniversary, right? Where you brought the character back for a commercial, correct? Yeah, yeah. It's the easiest character to do for me. When we did it, it's like it had always been just hanging out there. Jared kind of stood there and he did his version of it when he read the script. And I kind of watched it. I was like, yeah, yeah, it's kind of like, just stiff and, you know, it was like putting it on a map.

It was the easiest mass to slip on. I'll do cameos and people are like, do it in the department. pulling character. I'm like, fine. I'm already 50% there. All right, welcome to the show, everybody. Do us to solid. Go to all the throwbacks pages, throwback show, YouTube, give us a subscribe, all social platforms.

A lot of great interaction. We're going on there. This is a big show for several reasons. We have a great guest, but we also, it's the premiere episode last night of Nations Dumbest with Our Star. One of the stars of Nations, Are you the next? Matt Liner, Matt, buddy. You are now removed 12 hours or so removed for being a reality star. How are you feeling, my man?

I've tried to put this show in my rear view the minute the minute we wrapped that show. We shot the show in the spring and just have been kind of counting down the days until it aired. And obviously, shout out to Fox. I've been doing a great job promoting it. Dude You were nervous You didn't want to be known as the nation's dumbest You were nervous going in

We've talked a lot off air Yeah I was very nervous going into the show Because you just It just It's very unpredictable I didn't know what to expect And as you can kind of see You know

With episode one It's just it's a lot It's fun but there's a lot going on There's a lot that you can't control there's a lot of ups and downs and I think that will be it'll be highlighted throughout this season

with all the castmates but I will say this ended the show with a lot of good buddies a lot of good friends we're all on a group chat we all have been very excited for the premiere

that just happened so tune in everybody watch it's a really fun watch you can watch with your family your friends your kids yeah and well when you when you said

you know show's coming out we should do an episode on it and then you were like, who should we have from the show on throwbacks? There was for me, I mean, great cast all around. But my first overall draft pick, outside of you, of course, to come on throwbacks from the cast of Nation's Dumbness, would have been the great John Heater, who I've been a fan of forever.

And I think it's a more iconic. Yeah, he has some of the more iconic characters. And he's joining us on the show. I cannot wait to hear his take on going into the reality competitive gaming space. I know. John's great. He's, he is... Did he strike up like, is that...

Was he like the first one you really bonded with? Yeah, you know what? I'll say this. We all bonded really well together. It was instant chemistry within the cast. And I'm not just saying, again, because this was my... I mean, you know, like, being in a locker room, I can adapt to a lot of people.

Obviously, like, I can get along with everybody. But, like, it's not always... the case with everybody, you know, and especially for like a reality show setting. And I think we all, we all instantly sort of just, we're all in it together. We all going through the same stuff. We all bonded really well. And John was one of those guys that kind of, he was kind of the ballbuster. He kept it really light. He kind of brought us all together. He didn't take it too serious. And I think that helped the crew. It helped someone like me, right? Because I was like super competitive, tense a little bit. Like I had fun, but it was intense for me. He was just like so nonchalant about it all.

So, but yeah, they get John on and just like you said, I mean, just a part of some classics and a, in an OG throwback, man. He was, he was awesome. We made a friendship out of the show too, which is cool. Well, Matt and John's bromance is coming up in a second. Before we get to that, we're going to do our NHTSA speed segment right now. So this moment presented by NHTSA, speeding catches up with you, paid for by NHTSA. So, Matt, I thought we'd do a little trivia, and I know we might do some trivia later in the show with me, but this one is for you, okay?

Matt, your longest career run at USC. My longest run at USC was against Colorado State on a flea flicker that was botched, and I'm pretty sure I went like somewhere between 23 and 27 yards. I don't remember exactly. Now, were those all positive yards, or was it botched? and you got like the lost yards back.

The flea flicker, you know how you panned off? He flicks it back. The guy wasn't open. I had a lane. I went down to the sideline. I had 20 plus yards. Well, the question was, the trivia question is,

what is your longest NFL run? Yeah. That's a good question. 46. There, wait, time out. You rush for 46 yards. I knew it was. Yeah, dude.

Wait, was that in one run or was that total, though? Yeah. Do we know? Is that one run or is that the, It could have been. It was a 46-yard run. Seven attempts for 46. Okay.

Yeah, dude, that's like, dude, that's almost, that's seven yards of pop almost. My longest run in the NFL, do you know the answer? I think, yes, I'm pretty sure I do. I know that I had a good long run against the Patriots in a preseason game, which was 20-something plus yards. My very first preseason game I ever had. Well, according to our staticians, and again, we're going to have to fact check this because you already just... Oh, I mean, there wasn't...

This shouldn't be too much digging. There wasn't a lot of running. We have you at a 20-yard run against the 49ers? Is that ringing the bell? What year was that? Oh, yeah. That might have been 2007. 2007.

Week one, you came out of the gates as a rushing quarterback. Monday night football. I played awful that game. I actually threw... Was that in Arizona or in San Fran? No, that was in San Fran. I threw two picks that game. But I did have a touchdown pass at the end to go up with like two minutes to Anquan.

And then we gave up a touchdown to lose. But yeah, I remember. Actually, that's the game. I've told this story. That game is the game where Patrick Willis chipped my tooth when he hit me so hard when I was outside the pocket. Just right up under my grill. Almost knocked me out. Patrick Willis, one of the great.

He doesn't, we don't talk about him a ton anymore. That dude was just scary. One of the quietest, just Hall of Fame careers, you'll see one of the greatest to do it, though. And one of the nicest people on the planet, too. Wow. You were a speedster, week 107. Part of Nitsa, Speedster, there you go. There you go.

I can't wait to work. Clock me about 10 miles per hour. All right. I think we have to get to the heart and soul, the episode. Let's get John Heater going. All right. You know this guy. You've quoted him at parties.

And John, by the way, I wrote this all myself. You've done the dance at weddings. and if you grew up anywhere near the 2000s, you owe at least one Liger drawing to his legacy. He turned gosh into a personality trait and made Tater Tots a lifestyle choice. From Napoleon Dynamite to a career full of the kind of weird, wonderful roles only he could pull off.

We're about to find out if he's smarter than me on Nation's Dumbus, which premiered last night on Fox. Please welcome The Man, the Myth, the Legend. get back in our screen, John Heater. Welcome to throwbacks, buddy. There he is. Oh, yeah. It's not a smooth on my roller chair, but it would be cool.

What's up, dude? Hey, thanks for having me, you guys. This is a real treat and a real honor to be on a podcast that I've never heard of. And there he goes. You will explain why that is. Do you want us to explain how Jerry and I got together? Well, why would John know our podcast? You will explain why most stuff within this world I am like,

I think I know the answer. Well, that's because you just live, you live in a little bubble somewhere in the United States. No, I literally was waiting for the answer, and I'm thinking in my head out loud, this is a sports podcast. I'm going to say, not a sports guy, right? It's not necessarily a sports podcast.

We are a throwback nostalgia. podcast. Heavy on sports. Okay. See, now that now you're even hitting nostalgia. I'm all about. We are not just a sports podcast, dude, which I know is your, you know, your strength. Uh, we're throwbacks dude. We've had some incredible throwback

actors, athletes on and we are fired up to have you one of the OG original throwbacks of the early 2000s. Well, thank you. Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. Yeah, as you know, and we will get into it. I'm not the most sports knowledge, uh, guy or like I get I love sports and like like I like I like playing them if I'm invited to a live live game that's cool but if like stats players like nitty gritty little things nicknames apparently

but wait let me ask you this then because you know we are going to be talking about nation's dumbest and the game show I'm a big game show guy but if you were going on a different game show for a million dollars and you had to play a sport what would be the sport you would pick you could get to choose you have one sport to choose for a million bucks play the sport yes you're playing you're playing this one i think all right give me give me some racquetball racquetball okay okay are you a racquetball guy i would watch you one v1 in racquetball for someone for a million bucks i could just picture you wearing a headband with short shorts played record that's the only matt you nailed it's the only reason why i love it because i get to wear short shorts and not get

it booed for it. So, okay, dude, so we met on Nation's Dumbus, which is so cool because I think shows like that obviously bring a lot of different types of people together. And it premiered last night on Fox. Honestly, just, and I don't know if I asked you this, what is the reason that you signed up for the show in the first place? Because when you hear the show and the title, it's kind of like, all right, we don't really know what to expect.

So what was the reason for you coming on? Well, they immediately, you know, when they describe, I get the email. It's called Nation's Dumbusar. I don't know what that's all about. Then you get, then you read the blurb and immediately like, okay, I need to get on phone with these people. And everybody, I'm assuming it was the same for everybody. Yeah. But they like begin the conversation with a chuckle.

They're like, okay, we know, we know how this sounds. It's not that we think you're that we're not competing. we're not bringing in the dumbest people in America, or maybe they are and they're just telling us that. Maybe it's the nation's dumbest within this room. Yeah, exactly. But, but yeah, no, I, like, right away, I was like, I get it. This is a game show for people with senses of humor who can make fun of themselves,

who can totally own it. And I get it. It was like, you know, the characters I play are not the brightest tools in the shedyard. Wait. Sharper's tools in the shed. Yeah. So going into this, what would you have said, you know, because I immediately go into like competitive mode.

If I was getting the invite to be on this show and I agreed, I would be saying, okay, sports I feel like I'm all right with. I'm a decent history guy. Ask me something about cars. I'm screwed completely. What were like the two or three things? Like, man, I hope I live in this world because then I'll be out quick. category wise. Oh man. I don't know if there was like, you know, I'm pretty good with math.

I didn't know what to expect. I don't know. You don't even know that either. You're like, no. Well, there's going to be physical challenges, some team stuff. There's going to be like a lot of trivia. I was like, all right, well, trivia is hard to predict. You know, it's like it could be, there's certain elements of pop culture I can kill at. But then you pass like the year 2005, I'm like, be no good anymore. Renaissance art. John was hoping, like, if we have anything, any music from the 70s and 80s, I'm going to win this thing in a second.

I think that was- Nothing but Sabrina Carpenter questions. I think that was the hardest part about the show. And as people are going to watch this, and again, it premiered last night, was just like the unpredictability of it. Like, you just like, trivia, yeah, you know some of the basic stuff. There's a lot of fun. There's just a lot of stuff that at least I felt, John, that,

was out of your control. I think that was the hardest part. It was like you can control some of the stuff like, you know, the logic part, which you excel that big time throughout this show. But then there's some stuff like the team. Like you can't control who's on your team or what the team challenges. I thought that was the hardest part for me.

Oh my gosh. You like when I got picked to be the team captain for one of the, this isn't giving this is no, we can't give any spoilers. But this is fine because, you know, I was the team captain. I was like, sweet. okay and then they say it's going to be and i i remember thinking even you matt i think you're the first one i picked on my team because i was like you were i don't know what's going to happen but i think we can work well together yeah and then you know we grab our teams and they say spelling be and i'm

like yes that you ask the question spelling i kill at i kill at spelling so i'm like sweet and then of course i was like oh wait this is a team challenge and it's immediately say you're like you only as good as every single individual on your team I'm like, we're screwed. So last night, L. King was our first to get off, which, you know, when you watched that first episode back, there was a lot going on because that was the first time we all met. Remember, it was a long day shooting. We all met for the first time.

It was really well done. There's so many different challenges. Elle was like one of those where she was so sweet and kind of like quirky, kind of to herself, but like she crushed it. Were you surprised that she went off first? or what were your reaction to seeing her win? I wasn't super surprised because, you know, right away, this is my first game show.

I get competitive like, you know, anybody else, I think. But in a very different kind of way, I'm very much a harmonious guy. So I love doing the team stuff and working together. But that first moment when we all come into the classroom, when we start seeing everybody like, I didn't know who was going to be on the show. Right.

I see, I think you. You're like, who's this guy? And Chase. And Hilaria were the only three I didn't recognize. I was going to say, be honest, you had no idea who I was. No, I had no idea. But, you know, again, not being a sports guy. So don't take, like, I had kind of heard of or recognized everybody else.

But I was an L, actually, I didn't recognize L at all right away. And then I had, it's been like almost 20 years. I saw her when she was a kid. She was on a movie. I did like way back in the day. So I had no idea. And then I was like, okay, but yeah, you're sizing everyone up automatically right, right away. And I'm thinking right away after meeting L, I'm like, oh, she is a lot like me in terms of like,

she's going to be easy to play with. She's bright. There's some things in there. But like she's also, she's in it to win it. And I thought she might, she might be competition. She went on an absolute run. I was shocked. I will say I was shocked when she was in the final exam

when everybody's like getting all the questions. Like, how does she know that? I mean, because as people watched last night, like you have to, you got to know a lot of everything and just get a little bit lucky. But like you have to be able to rattle off. Yeah. 10 to 15 questions in a row to win.

Like you just have to. That's kind of the name of the game. It's those like you just don't know it Until, yeah, like you said, you don't know, like, oh, they asked the question, you know, who's, what was it like, what's the name of the Simpsons dog? I remember that. Jared, do you know that answer? The name of the Simpsons dog. Not the biggest Simpsons guy in the world.

No, you knew that, though, right? I knew. Yeah, I didn't know that. But I knew exactly, like, if you hadn't watched the show, if you, you know, just a simple little thing, it's not like scholastically, like, approving who you are. It's just like, do I remember that? So, I mean, and she just, everything lined up for her. That first episode was awesome. So one thing I wanted to ask you, every time I watch any kind of, you know, game show,

reality show, I always kind of put myself in there. Like, how would I fare in this environment? And being that you and I are both actors, it really made me think, was it a big adjustment because you're very much used to, hey, this is what we're shooting. They're going to call cut and they're going to give me, I'm going to get some coffee. and stay warm or cold, right? Stay cool.

But this is no cuts, really. You're doing your challenges, but the cameras are still going, you know? So, I know, me as an act, when they call cut, I unplug my mic and I just go off to the side. This is a very different environment for you. They watch just go to the bathroom.

It was. It was like, because not just was it a game show, that was a thing. Game shows, I was like, okay, I can understand that situation, but this is a reality show. reality show they want to capture everything so like you said you're miced up and we couldn't we couldn't unplug our mics yeah and you know that yeah there's definitely stretches especially the first episode where they're figuring everything out this is the first time they're doing it all right they're going over rules they're going over all the technical stuff it was a crazy technical show yeah and you know we're all right we're working you know we're moving on to the next segment give us a few moments there was a lot of downtime where they're like like, please, you know, be patient with us.

And we're like, yeah, no problem. We're sitting at our desk and we're chatting and talking, knowing they could hear what we're saying. There's still 47 cameras on us too. Yeah, there's like, I don't know if they're recording right now. I don't know if they're listening to us. But yeah, we're either talking strategy or we're just talking about the show. Yeah, there's a little bit of that like all eyes are on you. There was like 40 cameras.

There was tons. That was insane. Yeah. Just a sea of cameras. So since, I want to do a little trivia game with you, John, just a little one. Since you're so well versed in sports, I thought I'd just ask you a couple sports trivia questions. Shoot. Listen, I have faith in you.

I think you can answer a couple of these, okay? I will say, on the show, no big spoilers. There was probably, I could probably count like five sports questions that I received. and I got maybe two of them wrong. That's not bad. 60% success rate. That's not bad for a non-sports guy. These are layups, dude.

You would have to live under a rock to not know some of the answer. There's one that I'm not going to give away because it would be a spoiler, but I already explained to you. No, I did not get it. I would have gotten it. Had it been a final exam question

because I would have had time. This was a speed round. so I was like in the moment I was like, John was a great my downfall and I'll get in this I was not a great

educated guesser just wasn't my strength John was a great educated guesser like just could just could process you know. All right here we go. Which NFL player has the most Super Bowl wins

with seven? Okay. NFL, that's yeah, football, not hockey, not NHO. Okay. Got it. Just want to make sure

it wasn't a trick question. The most Super Bowl champion. Come on. Johnny. The most Super Bowl, that is Joe Namath. No. I can't tell. I can never tell if you're serious or just effing with. No, this one, I, yeah, normal me would probably throw out something like Connie Cutter, but I know that's not even a human being.

So Joe Namath is your final answer? No, because of your reaction. I'm going to go for a second one here. The most Super Bowl wins. Yes, the most successful person. Yeah, I think it's one of the Manning. Peyton Manning. Good answer. Good answer.

Okay, the answer is Tom Brady. Tom Brady. Tom Brady. Actually, that, that, it popped up. Now it popped in your head. It's probably either Manning or Tom Brady. Okay, so we, I found this out about you on the show that you went to BYU. Yeah.

So you are related to Vi Cica. Is that Sikahama? Sikahama. Okay. Can you name another NFL player who attended BYU that isn't VAL? Just any BYU Cougar? Steve Young. Oh, nice. Let's go.

Clap it up. That's good. That's good. Okay, I'm going to give you one last one. Last one. Can you name the BYU player who just went first overall in the NBA draft to the Washington Wizards? It just happened like.

It just happened a couple weeks ago. Okay. So educated guests, but now I'm trying to remember his name. He is, is it the, the talking air? Do you know who I'm talking about? What's his name? He is the heir to the, I know, I know, let me explain. We have to get our researchers to check your name.

Oh, what's his name? It's not that hard, dude. His family owns like, or Ida, potato company. and therefore he's the heir to the tot like no you're wrong I can't imagine that this is just because you love tater tots it's not right no no no only because he was part of

I went to March Madness last year and he was playing in that game and everybody was freaking out about him so that's my education Can I give him the answer Matt real quick I put it I had to Google just to see if your fact is right and the answer AJ is and says no

he is not associated with a potato company. There's another guy on the team who's associated with I thought you would know, I thought this was big news. I thought you would have known like that wasn't the question, John. It wasn't the question. Wait, our researcher Oh, there you go. But I thought, Ritchie Saunders

is the great grandson of F. Nephi Grig, the co-owner founder of Nephi, sorry, I've never He's going to inherit Oriota. The Tater Tots. Yes. Yeah, there you go. But you've never heard of Richie. You gave us a trivia question back.

Was Richie Saunders on the team last year? I mean, that's an accident. Yeah, yeah. I thought he was bigger at news. I mean, I'm not, you know, downplaying Richie son. I mean, AJ DeBanza just went number one overall. So AJ did, what? DeBanza, yes.

He went number one overall. He was getting paid like $9 million last year, BYU to go to BYU. NIA money. Yeah. That's a thing. You get paid. Your college players get paid now, buddy. They do.

That's right. That I think I heard. Yes. But nine million, that's not getting paid. That's like. extortion, I think. For like six months of going to school. Yeah, yeah.

All right. Good job, dude. Oh, for, thank you. Any, uh, any, I got one of them. I got one of them, right? One for three. Any watch parties? I know Maddie had a big watch party for the show last.

Any, any watch party? What's the family vibe, uh, with your performance here? Maddie, Maddie has friends, you know. I mean, right at the top, he was talking about how he was texting all you guys and all these people. I was like, oh, shoot, I was only texting one person at the end of each episode. Did your, did your kids enjoy it? We haven't, we haven't watched it yet.

Oh, yeah. Because we don't have live TV. We're going to have to wait until it comes out on Hulu. We're watching on who you really are just living the dream out. Love it. Out in the mountains. Yeah. Yeah.

No, we're definitely, I'm going to, it's like, that's funny you ask. I'm like, I should have a watch. party. Who's going to come over? Probably no one. Can I talk my kids into watching it? They might be like, no, I think they will because it's it's fun, dude, it's fun. It's so much fun. It's colorful. It's out there. They're going to have to bleep a lot from Carmen and ICE tea because, dude, ice. Yeah. Yeah, that's, but I think I'm trying to remember as I'm like, am I getting embarrassed them? No, I'm going to go for it. So yeah, we'll have a watch party tonight. All right, dude.

Well, so since you want to talk so much about Napoleon Dynamite, I think we should move on to, listen, at the end of the day, dude, like, I was a fan of yours before we met. I'm a bigger fan now because we've become buddies on the show. You had some just incredible throwback characters, and this podcast is called throwbacks. We talk a lot about, you know, we had Patrick Renan from the Sandlot. We talked about this. We've had a lot of just cool kind of old-school. guys. Just going back to Napoleon

reminisce. Did you ever think when you did that movie it would become what it became? How do I answer this question in a new way to make it interesting for myself? No, it was

And for our pod, thank you. We had no idea. We had no idea. Like we yeah, we I mean, it was like a student film. That's really what it was is like all besides a few of the you know the Hollywood actors that we cast we had John

Grides and a very small handful of people outside of our bubble but everybody else was just BYU students we were like all right let's make this movie so I think the key thing to think is we had no idea this was going to get picked up or that get distribution because when you're making a film and you know this Jerry like if you've ever done an independent film you're like like, okay, we've got the money to make this movie, but do we have the resources and the contacts and the money to then get it in front of people's eyes? And we had no idea.

We were like, what we're making this, but maybe we can get in a few, you know, film festivals or something like that. So, but as we're making it, and when we made the short, we made a short film first, like about a year and a half prior. And that, to me, was like,

this is something special. Like this short, and when Jared told me, hey, we're going to make a feature-length version of this, like, you want to do that? I'm like, yeah, of course, I'm game. I knew there was something special and different, but not at all imagining that it was going to hit to like the four quadrants in the world of like film. And audiences like, I thought maybe a couple quirky filmgoers were going to enjoy this kind of film. I had no idea kids were going to like it. I had no idea grandparents were going to like it, you know? That's really worth the whole spectrum.

Does a short, like, I don't, I generally don't know. Does a short film, what do you, when you make a short film, does that go to a film festivals for people that get a reaction? It's just like anything else. Yeah. You make the short is the short film was actually an assignment for school. So it was a school project. So you guys, you made this at BYU. This is a school project at BYU.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we did the short and then, you know, we showed it at the, BYU film festival that shows all the other student films and it was

awesome. I thought we were the best one. But then yeah, Jared put it in a couple like one, maybe two other film festivals. If you've ever heard

slam dance, slam dance is the Sundance adjacent film festival happens at the same time. And just a few buildings. So we got into slam dance. And it's not that it did anything for the film.

It's not like it opened up any doors. But I think it just helped Jared and myself realize people really like this. But it was more for us. We're like, this works. This character works. We can make an hour and a half of this guy

with a couple other weirdos sprinkled in. It's so funny because I don't know how much you've been paying attention to like, you know, what's going on with like horror films and like the movie obsession and backrooms and all this like internet lore, right? And how now a lot of producers and studios are scouring the internet for like these short kind of stories and all looking. for IP and it hit me once I knew you were coming on. I was like, in today's day, that short,

which I've never seen, which I would actually love to see one day, a hundred percent Napoleon Dynamite would have been some like internet lore that's like, whoa, they're going to make this into a movie. I think it was that kind of a thing with that character and the content that I think that story, I just think some stories are always meant to get discovered, even though at the time it probably seems impossible, right? Like, yeah, I've done indies where I'm like, oh, this one's good. And it's a DVD on my shelf, no one's ever seen. And I've done a few indies where it's like, I don't even know if this is maybe and it ended up doing okay.

But Napoleon Dynamite, I feel like in today's day would totally be some like internet IP that some producer finds and sits on. And then it just blows up. Like I goes on a similar run to like what obsession is doing now and backrooms is doing now. It's interesting because that feels like a brand new thing. Everybody's talking about especially with like you said with backrooms and obsession. because up until recently, I would as,

you know, when people asked me, would Napoleon have been Napoleon in today's like temperature and everything? Like, because back then there was still, we didn't have social media in 2000, not really in 2004.

You know, you had the internet, but it was still a lot of it was basically word of mouth. There's just word of mouth getting out there. We had a website with for a fan club for the film after. And that helped kind of get the word around a bit, but with people's attention spans and how quickly things come in and out of the theater, especially post-COVID, could have movie like Napoleon have, you know, done what it did.

And I was like, I don't know if it would have, it might have. But now that you say, you know, with all this attention being put on these like scouting the internet, like short stories, put it up there. Yeah. Reddit threads. Anything. Maybe the pendulum is swinging back And now we're going to these smaller sources

For our entertainment And I've really only been a part Because I did TV most of my whole career But I really only was in like one movie That went on like a box office run And I just remember how it literally felt like an episode of entourage That we would cover like I just remember how cool it was to get like the tracking

It's like wow this movie's actually performing Obviously the Napoleon run at the box office I mean, what is going through your mind when you're just seeing the numbers and the droves of people that are going to see the movie in theaters, which today's day, it's starting to come back. But I just always think about that behind the scenes,

like in your world. It almost been shocking to see what the box office was doing. It was hard to track. Ours was a very, very different box office lifespan because typically, like you said, you know, most studios, most films rely on that first opening weekend. Right. And normally that's when they get their biggest numbers.

And then it's either stay steady. If it's successful, it stays steady for a little bit or it barely drops off. But it stays strong. Hours was, well, we opened in like three theaters when it premiered. So the numbers would have been very well. Improvo? Not even, no. They were like, no, it was L.A. in New York.

It was L.A. in New York. And they were like, okay, we're going to just put it a few. And then they just smartly, like, put it in just a few more. But it wasn't until, like, maybe a few weeks later, they started putting it in, like, these specialty film, film-friendly kind of a theater, like, either out there or this is for, you know, quirky indie films. And it was just the, it was really the theaters that were our champions. Because they were like, hey, we love the kind of people it's bringing in.

People are, we're seeing repeat. people, audience members come back and buy tickets. So it just was more of like it was the opposite. It started small and then just screw. Every weekend, it got more and more and more. And we stayed in theaters. We came out in June 2004 and we were in theaters till about October. That's what was crazy.

What a run, man. What a run. That's so cool. And so again, it was hard to track the numbers. I didn't even know how to track the numbers. I didn't have an IMB sign in or anything. box office mojo. Jerry's got a question, but were you, so were you, did you go back to school?

Were you still in school during this? Like, were you as junior or senior? Were you back in school after this movie came out? Or were you already graduated? I had one more semester of school when it premiered at Sundance. Sundance is January. January, yeah. So it kind of worked out perfectly.

I come back from Sundance. I get all these, I've got a handful of, of business cards that I collected from managers, agents, publicists. It was insane. I was like that one week in Sundance was like overwhelming. I was like, oh, I guess I should get an agent now. So we got an agent. So great, dude. While I was finishing my last semester at BYU, I was like, okay, this is perfect. I'm going to finish up. And then literally like right as the semester ended, the movie was like a month from premiering. Got it. Yeah. So I moved down to L.A. And it was just just, yeah.

I got two fun facts for you. We did an episode of Entourage at the Sundance Film Festival in January 05. We actually shot at the actual festival, right? Okay. But the whole, I don't even, I think we had a joke, not a joke, a line in there

that ended up getting cut for some reason, but because you were there in 04, I believe, everyone at Sundance, right? Sundance, I think it was 0. Yeah, yeah, 04. Everyone in the following Sundance, Every movie you went to, because we went to some screenings and parties, and everyone was just talking about like,

we're just trying to find a next Napoleon Dynamite. That's the whole word at the Sundance Film Festival. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that. That's fun fact number one. Fun fact number two. I think maybe outside of some family members of yours and true diehard fans, I've watched the dance scene from Napoleon Dynamite more than anyone, because do you know, are you aware of the movie lone survivor?

Yeah, yes, yes, yes. There is the dance secret. So I auditioned for that character. I was dying to be in that movie, Lone Survivor. I'd gotten to know Pete Berg a little bit at this point. And he's like, yeah, you got to audition to everyone is.

And I remember getting it and it's, you have to do the dance. It's part of Navy Seal Hazing for like the young rookie, right? And that's the dance he decides to do. And I remember even asking Pete, like, do I have to be accurate? He's like, yes, you have to be exact. So he asked you to do John's dance?

I had to do the, it's in the screen. It's in the script. It says he's, doing the dance from the... I didn't ask me. And if you watched the movie, Alexander Ludwig, who got the part, does it?

But I'm trying to find the audition tape. But I watched it probably the night before, like 800 times in the row. My buddy shot the audition for me, and I did my best. But clearly, I got a different part in the movie. So I did something right, but not, I didn't get that.

That's wild because I remember I had not heard, you know, in any of our lives, you know, whenever there's something big about you that you don't aren't paying attention to you. You have friends with someone who texts you or say, hey, did you see this? Did you say that every meme is texted me a hundred times by people?

Of course. I've never seen it. But this one was, this flew under the radar, which is weird because it was a big movie. But I saw it early on. And I sat and I watched it. I was like,

totally took me by surprise. I was like, oh, whoa, that's weird. And I was like, and it was kind of like, this is weird because I've seen people do the dance. Right. thousands of times on YouTube and this and that. But to see it and depicting a movie, kind of legitimized it.

It felt like watching yet another dance. Alexander did his best, but it was crap, of course. You was, yes, it was not. But,

but now that I know that that was the audition tape, like, dude, you got to find that. He just hit up Peter Burney. I was like, I'm like, I don't fucking have that.

He doesn't want to steal your acting ability. She just wants to see you do the Napoleon dance. And in Ludwig's defense, I think, in the script it was supposed to be a bad rendering. It wasn't supposed to be like as nearly as good as you were able to perform it. He picked

the easiest parts. Correct. I don't know if he put the work in that I put in because I fucking studied you, dude. All right, sorry for the quick interruption, but the Argentina England game just ended. You know I have to get my pick of the weekend with BEDMGM and I want to be in early. So at the moment

of this recording, the game just ended. Spain, Argentina, and the championship. Okay. I think, I think Spain has been pretty unbeatable this whole time. Obviously, Argentina is a team you cannot put away. My pick of the week is the tie, basically plus 200 on BetMGM as we speak right now, because I think this is going into extra time or even PKs. And then I think you have to give the edge to Spain. I think finally this magical, messy run with Argentina is over. And I think then Spain would be plus, I think, minus 175, sort of for the anytime win.

But I think you got to parlay that with the tie. I think it's tie, extra time, or even PKs. That is my bed MGM. Pick it a week. By the way, John, I went back and watched, because I asked you when we were together, I remember asking you because I was like, like a fan. I'm like, did you come up with that dance? And you improvised.

I know you've talked about this dance a million times, but you've improvised the whole thing. you only did it in a couple takes. I got to be honest, dude, for someone who doesn't look like they have movement, and like you're an athlete, but you can move. Yeah, thank you.

Take us back. What was that? Like, so was it three takes? Is that what you said? I think you've said on record. Yeah, we just did it three times, three chances. Less of a take.

And so the three chances, you're going up there and you're just, they're saying, roll, let's go. And you just go. Yeah. just going on the fly. Jared and I, I mean,

this is pretty impressive, dude. This is just classic, like student filmmaking. We were buddies. And Jared, when we really had all started, is like when we did the short film, he had already written that script,

and he had some other kid in mind to play the main role. But then he, you know, we were in a couple classes. I had done like acting in one other, like one or two other short things, barely any. But he just saw,

okay, this guy, the way he walks, moves, talks, I think you can match it. So I play the character in the short. But during the filming of the short, he was like, we had several similar, like friend groups, like that kind of crossed over a little bit. And he goes, John, I heard you like to dance, like kind of just mess around. I was like, yeah, you know, because it was a stupid little thing, like a party trick where I'd be like,

play some sweet music. Ah, I'm not going to. And then I just start bogging, whatever. and he's like, oh, and Jared is very much like he loves, like him and I love dance music. We love, I don't know if he dances, but he loves that kind of like disco, everything. So he's like, can we put that in the short film somehow? So he shot me like in character standing in the middle of like this gravel road in the middle of nowhere, kind of dancing.

It was weird and it didn't fit. So he didn't put it in the short film. But it got you. Dude, you went for like two and a half minutes, dude. For the feature, then he's like, I'm going to put that in the movie. And when it came to time, came time to shoot the scene, he was like, well, he was like, all right. Actually, he was just like 100% trust of me like you're going to do.

He never discussed it with me. And as we got closer, it's like, Jared, I'm sorry, are we supposed to get like a choreographer? Like, I don't know. She hasn't called me yet. What are we doing? And he's like, oh, I just assumed you do your thing. which is even more impressive. I don't know what my thing is.

I was like, all right. Yeah, I normally just freestyle. He was like, yeah, then you just do that. Oh, so good,

dude. I got two more things for you and then no, we got to let you go. I do know you did something for the 20th anniversary, right, where you brought the character

back for a commercial, correct? Am I? Yeah, yeah. So I did something like that with Entourage. Kevin Dillon and I did a commercial. Like,

we were like in character, but not necessarily a hundred percent. And I do remember, you know, because our characters, also were 25 almost years old. I remember going, shit, can I still do this? Like, I'm 45. At the time, I was 44 years old. I'm like, I have three kids now. Can I even do this? I was kind of nervous because I was wondering, like, I don't know if I even have this guy in there anymore. Do you have any

feelings of that when you were kind of dusting off the old, uh, the old chops there? Not at all. You were ready. You were ready. It's, it's the easiest character. Got him. Like I, when we did it and it, it's like it had always been just hanging out there. And the first time when, I mean, this is in prep for the short film. Because again, it was kind of all established for the short. Right. Jared kind of stood there and he did his version of it when he read the script.

And I kind of watched it. I was like, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like, just stiff and, you know, it was like putting it on a map. It was the easiest mask to slip on. And it was just like. And because, you know, I go out and I do live shows where we show the movie and we talk about the, they do Q&As. There's so many opportunities to keep it kind of there. It's lingering in the background.

It's an easy flex. There's, you know, I'll do the greatest flex of all time. Do it in the Napoleon character. I'm like, fine. Because I'm like, it's, it's, I'm already 50% there. Anyway. I can't tell. I was telling Jerry, when we shot the show Nation's Dumbest, I was like, I was like, dude, there were so many mannerisms that you did that just naturally that you do that just brought me back to that movie.

I'm like, oh my God. That's me just playing it up for camera and for you guys at home. I'm nothing but a turn around. Hey, guys, come on. Let's do. I don't know. Well, dude, you have, it's such an iconic pop culture moment. We talked about the dance.

but like I think another thing when explaining like a career you also you know with Blades of Glory and it gets sampled in the Kanye JZ song right which I saw we're not going to fully say the title on the show but I always call it ninjas in Paris right and if I can only think that song came out and we're about to do a 2010s kind of musical thing but uh that was on in every nightclub when I was going out and actually having a good run but just thinking about those two moments in like pop culture history dude i just want to say congrad that's that's this incredible you're in the hall of fame you're a hall of famer to me dude i my criteria is like obviously you have the film background which you're acting in your career uh you have two

massive pop culture moments massive between the dance and the song you hosted SNL which to me that's another and for me my criteria you're a good guy you do not seem like a dick in any way so you're a Hall of favor, bro. In my opinion, you are a hall of favor. It's debatable. I got to the jaw really well. No.

Just kidding. I love, yeah, they, they, I got nickname, which is weird. It's like, it's automatic.

Like, I am a very nice guy, but I got, I get nicknamed everywhere I go, John, hater, hater. Right?

Because, because you, because you are, I think I, I'm trash talking. I say this on the show at some point. This isn't a spoiler. It's like,

I, I'm like, why do you talk so, much shit to everybody. He's like the guy in the back of the classroom that's just needling everybody, but like thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, which he probably is, but then he's just kind of like

getting under everybody's skin to throw him off. Like that's John. I know. In a good way. No, no. It was so much fun because this is such an eclectic mix of people that I'm like, and it's also my way of like kind of testing like who's going

to take it well. Everybody was pretty. Everybody was great. Like everybody took everything. We had a great time. Well, I'm excited to see the rest of your run on that. Also, I haven't caught Walton with Brando yet, but I'm going to check that out because Billy Zane looks exactly like freaking Marlono. Yeah, what else?

What else do you have going on? I can't believe it in the trailer. Sorry, Joe. What else do you have going on? So, let's see. Waltzing of Brand, the two recent films that just came out, waltzing with Brando and Top of Wingo. I'm trying to get the word out on that one.

That was, we shot it a while back, but it just came out a couple months ago. for Napoleon fans, I say, check it out. It is the first movie I've done since in Poland that's like a spiritual successor to it. It's kind of like if Napoleon is, you know, in his 30s or 40s, but it takes place in like 1980. I've got a sweet mullet and a mustache. I'm in. It's weirdos in the small town. It's a lot of fun.

Awesome. As the kids say, say less, man. I'm in. You just sold it to me. Well done. Nation's dumbest every Wednesday on Fox. you can catch the man,

the myth of legend. John, thanks for joining us, dude. Appreciate you, buddy. Thanks for having me, you guys.

Oh, man. God, I'll tell you what, I got a little bit of anxiety just talking about. I felt it. I felt you getting nervous.

After the premiere last night, but it's awesome. But in spirit of our show, Nation's dumbest, I wanted to give you some trivia. I wanted to ask you some questions to see if you are indeed the nation's dumbest between the two of us.

Are you ready? Yeah, Yes. These are sample questions. These are all questions that may or may not have been in the show throughout the show. But in tone, they're similar to what the show was. Yeah, very similar. Maybe they were in.

Maybe they weren't, but very similar. I'm going to rattle them off. And let's give you your best. If I don't know it, I'm just going to say pass, but I'm going to try to just throw out answers. And if you pass, you will lose a star, which you definitely need. How long does it take the sunlight to reach Earth? Oh, yeah. That's, that's, um, this.

This many light years. I'm going to go, no? I'm going to go 100 light years. Eight minutes. Oh, you're going minutes. Okay. I'm not going minutes.

I'm just giving you how long does it take? Got it. Okay. Got it. Okay. What part of the cell, you should know this, what part of the cell is known as the powerhouse? What part of the cell is known as the powerhouse?

The nucleotide. No? mitochondria. Mitocondria, yes, but you would have got it wrong. No, I would make up nucleotide. I knew it was mitochondria. We're going to shift here to a couple animal questions because Animals was highlighted in episode.

Animals was highlighted last night, episode one of Nation's Dundas. What animal has three hearts? Oh, I know this. I swear I've heard this fact before. Exactly. But this is the whole point of the truth. show. It's freaking hard. I'm out.

The octopus. Yeah. Dang it. A group of crows is called what? Flock. Good guess, but no, I'll give you one more guess. That's a good guess. A group of crows. This is actually fairly well known, and this is

potentially a question that's on the show. Flock was what I would have totally went. I don't have anything else. It's called a murder. Definitely didn't know. I did not know that. Okay, two more real quick. I'm going to nursery rhymes now. What did the cow do in Hey, Diddle, Diddle?

Cow jumped over to moon. Good. Which Renaissance, now I'm going to art history, because you can understand this is what the show does. Okay, I'm not bad at art history. Which Renaissance art, this is the last one. Let's close on a win. Which Renaissance artist was also a scientist,

inventor, and engineer? Galileo. No? Da Vinci. Al-Galayao was an astronomer. Damn it. He was an astronomer. Okay. So I'm in the back in the classroom. Like, just waiting the fight for my life.

And you're hoping to God, the next seven come your way to the next day. That's tough. The one I knew octopus. I should have got octopus. I had no idea about the crow one. Never heard of a murder. I should have got octopus. And I thought of the sun one in a completely dumb way.

Like now that I think about it. I've heard that before. I just, yeah. That's the nature of the show. Like, I'm always thinking those questions, and even when we did twisted trivia, I just always think it's like a trick. I don't just answer the question on its surface. I always think there's like some obvious trick.

That's what John said. John's like, you kind of always second guess yourself because like, is it really that easy of a question? And some of them were. Like some of them are like, how many wheels are on a unicycle? Duh, yeah. Duh, but you're like, wait, wait, what? Is it really?

You know, but yeah, man, fun. John Mears is great. Well, congrats. The show is great. I cannot wait for episode two. We're all in the Ferrara House. And what it does so well, and we'll end on this. This is what I love that any show does scripted or even non-scripted,

but especially in the game show sense, when you start really imagining how you think you would have done, that's when I think you know you got a hit. And that's what I'm doing with your show. So good stuff, buddy. All right, dude. All right.