Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - Joseph Sikora Joins to Talk Power, Acting With Jerry, Friendship With 50 Cent and Being Tommy Egan

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Matt and Jerry kick the show off by recapping the Dodgers epic World Series win before Jerry gives the backstory to his time on Power and working with today’s guest Joseph Sikora.   Then Joseph joins to talk the final season of Power Book IV: Force, his time on the original Power with Jerry, including Jerry’s infamous death scene at the hands of Joe’s Tommy Egan. Joe wraps up by talking about his future as an actor and his desire to produce and direct.   Finally, the guys pick their most memorable TV deaths of all time before they’re joined by Annie Agar for this week’s NFL chatter and a special Hollywood edition of Twisted Tea Trivia.   New episodes of Throwbacks drop every Thursday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also, make sure you’re locked in on social @ThrowbacksShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys & the Throwbacks community. (http://throwbacksshow.com/)      A big thank you to our sponsors:    Wendy’s Wake up with Wendy’s breakfast https://www.wendys.com/breakfast  Twisted Tea Grab a Refreshing Twisted Tea Today.  https://www.twistedtea.com/locations  DoorDash Win weekly with DoorDash Streaks! Order every Saturday, save up to $250 during College Football Season. Terms Apply.    Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code THROWBACKS for 15% off your next order.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fifth said to me, to know you is to love you. You should have your own show. You're going to have your own show. But look, when you don't make me money no more, I ain't going to fuck with you. All right, welcome to another episode of Throwbacks, everybody. Appreciate you joining us today. Take a second if you can. Follow us on all socials at Throwback.

show. Go to the YouTube. You know how I feel about this. Don't be afraid to subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. It costs you nothing. It's a throwback show on YouTube. Zero. What up, Jared? Well, first and foremost. Aren't you going to ask me how it feels to be a champion again? How does it feel Matt Liner

to be a champion again? It feels fucking great, bro. It feels good. Did you have any doubts at one point in that crazy game seven? The whole game I doubted. Yeah, the whole game I doubted. Ninth any, Niggie Rojas up with one out and we're down one.

Even in the extra it needs I had doubt. But yeah, I mean, obviously hell of a hell of a series. I think I tweeted it out, but it's got to be the greatest world series of all time. I mean, at least in modern day, like from far as I can remember, and some of the moments from both teams and the defensive plays and the eliteness of the

athleticism and the elite defense on both sides to me is what stood out. Like, performances aside, like it was just incredible the Dodgers and all the plays that they made to win that game. Like, just every play. Like, it doesn't happen that often. Those are the things that jumped out to me. Obviously, the Dodgers are loaded with stars.

And I think the Blue Jays may not, besides Vlad, you don't have the stars, but they have a really good top, unbelievable top to bottom team. But the Dodger almost role player, they just made every single play. Well, all the, by the way, yeah, like the players who don't make a lot of money in, considering all the other. Rojas, clutch. Tommy Edmund, defense, clutch. Kike Hernandez, clutch.

I mean, Pahe's the catch. That catch is insane. That's the end of the world series of that drops. By the way, it was absurd. That guy hit about, that hit like 090 in the world series. He got benched. So all of the guys, Will Smith, Will Smith, our catcher, arguably,

I mean, caught every single inning. Like, it was just, again, yeah, Yamamoto and like, all of these guys. But bets really didn't show up that much at the plate. Freddie Freeman didn't really show up much at the plate. Otani will have a great game and then a bad game at the plate. Like, I'm telling you, man, the stars did their job, but it was, it was the, the non-stars, right? The kind of forgotten guys that ended up stepping up and winning a World Series, man.

Well, was there anybody more in that situation, Matt, when you got, you know, bases loaded or whatever it was, one out, bottom of the inning? Like, where did you want that potential ground ball hit to? To me, it's bets. Like, that was the, like, hit it to anyone but Mookie Betts and, maybe. Maybe you could get lucky here and beat out a double play. He's the only guy that I knew, like, the minute it was hit up to short, I'm like, game over. Before you even caught it, I said game over. I was telling the wife, I'm like, okay, we double play wins.

If not, we lose. Like, this is like, well, and having the one run lead was obviously huge because you could, you could sacrifice or run. But I was like, ground ball, it hits over. And sure enough, a little chopper. I'm watching with the boys. I'm like, no shit. It's going to happen. And then he did, it was awesome, man.

So we got a great show. We got a great show for you guys playing. I'm going to preview that in one second. Last impressions for me, I was left with as far as the World Series going, you know what? Dodgers are now officially in 90s Yankee territory. I'm not trying to make this a Yankees thing. And what I mean by 90s Yankees is like you just have to assume they're going to make the play

or get the hit. And it's going to come from anywhere. It's going to come from Jim Layritz. It's going to come from Andy Petit with a pickoff move to third, right? They are just this season they're going into now really will etch them amongst some of the Three, three titles and six years. I mean, it's, and baseball's really hard to do. It's, they're a dynasty and everybody is back.

And listen, you're a ratings guy. The ratings were through the roof. And now everyone on social is like, well, basketball's got a problem. Basketball's always had a problem in the last few years. Basketball is hard to watch. And I love, and I know you're a basketball. I love, I love hoops. I love sports.

I love it. But it's like, it's just a hard watch for a lot of different reasons. and even the NBA playoffs are like it's just it's it's it's it's just not a great product in my opinion and baseball baseball the great thing about baseball and what they've done is right the pitch clock hey let's shorten the games it's too long right the three hour games no one wants to see it sit through that so they've done the things they've tweaked the all-star format like they continue to do things great all-star game is great they've continued to do things to adapt to 2025 The NBA is just the NBA.

Like, there's load management issues. There's, it's just, it's, and a lot of threes. It's a lot of threes. It's a bad product. And the ratings, you know, I'm at Fox, right? And we had the World Series and stuff. Congrats, by the way. Fox's eating good right now.

Oh, man. Steak and lobster. Steak and lobster. Toronto, L.A., initially not a great ratings boost because Toronto being in Canada and something with the regional networks and stuff, like, like it doesn't rate. It's just because it's in Canada. So, like, there was that. It's a little above my pay grade.

And obviously, L.A. has a tawny and all that. So it's a big market. But it's always like, this needs to go six or seven. And it went seven. And then it had every moment you can imagine, like, you know, home runs, walk off home runs, go ahead, home runs. And game seven. So, and then you look, I think it was like 25 something million people watch that game. Like, that's, that's baseball.

That's incredible. So shout out to MLB. I'm sad. it's over. Do not strike whatever you do. Do not ruin this. Baseball is in a great spot right now. Major League Baseball is in a great spot.

It was a great year. Those guys go get some, by the way, we'll see in March for spring training right around the corner. So you know who else is in a good spot? Well, first and foremost, too, we're going to be joined later with Annie Agar as we do every week. We're going to do Twisted T trivia. And I think there might be a twist to it.

So I hear a twist to the twisted T trivia. I mean, we're doing anything possible to. allow you to get on the to get me a W. But someone else who was in good position this is a very close personal friend of mine.

You know, we have a lot of athletes on this show, but we also love when we have our actors on. I am one of them. Joe Shakora. If you don't recognize

the name Joe Shakora, you should. You may know him as well as Tommy Egan, a character on power. I was lucky enough to be on the show, Power, for six seasons.

And Joe played an unbelievable character on that show. And now to the point where they have a whole universe now. Power has a universe with lots of spinoffs. And Joe stars and the title character force, Tommy Egan's spinoff in Chicago.

He came on to join us. And I was flooded with memories because I remember when power came my way, entourage was just starting to end. And it was a small part at the time, but it was one of the only times I had a showrunner, Courtney Kemp, who was a close personal friend.

And in my opinion, one of the best showrunners in town, called me and said, I wrote something for you. It's kind of small right now, but trust me, it's going somewhere. Just have the faith. And you know what?

Look, I'll be honest. Didn't pay a lot of money. Didn't shoot in L.A., so I had to fly back and forth to New York all the time. But what was on the page was good. The show was starting to grow. It was 50 cent. And then once I started watching the show,

I saw Joe and Omari Hardwick. I'm like, these guys are really good actors. There are a few spoilers. If you haven't taken part in the power universe at all. There are a few spoilers. I'm just pointing it out there. But it's old by now. And famously, the Tommy character eliminates. Unalives, my character. Like it says on this mug, I'm going to cancel Christmas on their ass. Guns you down. Guns me. It's one of your favorite shootouts now. It's, I mean, it's, it is. I've rewatched it like 15 times to see if you, you've worked on your

aim. But it's great to see you guys. It's great to see you guys on the screen. together. And again, it's funny, Jerry, because, you know, you are, you are more turtle to me than a Proctor, but it's being around you and knowing the success of that show power and seeing the people that come up to you. And we've kind of talked about this, how you kind of like reinvent yourself and all these characters and these roles. Like Proctor was, Proctor was a big, is a big deal. Like, there's a lot of people that see you only as Proctor, which is pretty, which is pretty cool, I have to imagine for you. And that's something that I think, you know, that we talk about with Joe is just, you know, these roles that you guys get to play. But it was, it was great to see

you guys back together just shooting the shit, telling stories. It's great, man. Joe's, Joe's a badass mofo, dude. Yeah, and he's out a great career. He was in Reacher with Tom Cruise. He was in true detective, Ozark, great role on Ozark. And needless to say, how I knew power was going to be a big deal, Matt. I was in Vegas at Summer League and USA Basketball. And back then, Power used to air on Saturday nights, right? Which is a testament to the show because it blew up. I was going to say it was airing on Saturday

night and it blew up. Saturday's probably not the slot you want to be. And I'm in Vegas at Summer League walking around the casino the next day after my first episode aired and I'm sitting there. I might have been playing Blackjack and I feel a giant hand clap me on the shoulder and I turn around. I look and it's Lamarcus Aldridge. I'm like, oh, hey. He's like,

you were awesome. You got Tommy out of jail last night. I'm like, okay, he watched it already. Then a couple of the NBA referees flagged me down and they're like, dude, you're the man. You got Tommy off out of prison. I'm like, oh my God, this show is starting to have that same thing that I knew once people started coming up to me with Entourage. And then lastly, Matt, the only time I got to make a tearful speech, when you are eliminated from the power universe, they bring you to the table read. They all basically, you do the table read, and then they bring you up and they clap for you and they let you talk as like a dead person. So I got to do like my locker room speech of what an honor it was. And I said I wouldn't cry and I cry.

You cried. You cried. A little tear. You had a great run. Did you ever, before we get into Joe, did you ever, what was your experience like with 50 cent? Did you ever cross past with him? I know him and Joe are super tight. We have an interesting history because 50 did a cameo on entourage that was initially scripted for Kobe Bryant.

But it was in season and Kobe literally. wrote back, I don't do anything in season but play basketball. So we had to change it from, it's the scene where my character who's starting to, the turtle starting to feel emasculated and like, I have no job. And then Vince buys him a Ferrari and his girlfriend,

Jamie Elyleyn buys him a Porsche. She's like, you guys think I'm losers. So he takes off in the Porsche and then pulling up next to him, which is now one of the more famous memes on social is 50 who says, I see you drive in your daddy's car. You look good though, and he laughs and drives away. Entourage had

money. We were going to get 50 whatever car he wanted, but 50 said, no, no, no, I'm going to ship my car out from New York and I want to be in my car. That was my first experience of 50. He also was in Las Vegas with me. And then when I come on to power, I know he was a character on the show and a producer, but how much is he really around? They always asked that with Wahlberg too. How much is Walberg really around? And 50 is around. Every table reading. He's directed episodes. his DNA, especially on them early seasons, was there. So, and 50 and Joe, and we talked to him about in the interview, it became really tight. And also, Google Joe Shakora Michael Jordan commercial and just enjoy, because he's in a Michael Jordan commercial from like 19, I think, 89 early MJ commercial.

So I think without further ado, we bring on Tommy, aka Joe Shakora. So, Joe, real quick, you mentioned some. interesting because, you know, when I came on power, it was obviously a lot of turtle stuff, but I've been in parts of New York and L.A. where I've run in the same hour. I've run into an entourage fan that's like, Pearl, what's up? And then I crossed the street, and it's a power fan, Proctor, and they don't know about each other. They don't watch the other show. So, like, if I ever was typecast, but how does it happen again twice? It kind of disproves the theory. Because if it was a real theory, it shouldn't happen twice.

No, and it's really have to once. But you did it. But you did it. it real twice. Like, I've done it, I mean, it's, I'm Tommy. It's like, at least for the real fans, or the majority of my fans, it's like, oh, when Tommy played the guy on Ozark, oh, when Tommy plays the lawyer on reasonable doubt, whereas you are, were turtle, and then you were Proctor and still are in some capacity. So to me, like, you kind of won that as a resurgence of, like, you are noted as truly as two different guys. Well, that's one thing I wanted, I never got the chance to really, as power ended, like, I left New York. And we never really got the chance to sit down.

But it's one thing I want to ask you when you get approached to do force and you're coming into season three, was it a no-brainer for you? Because this is such a great character. And then I know, you know, the show is now in Chicago and you're such a Chicago guy. Like, what was your mindset? Was it just a no-brainer I'm in? Let's go. I don't know, man. It was weird.

Like, I was happy to bring the show back to Chicago. But, you know, I've lived in New York now for most of my life. Yeah. And it was also like, why is Tommy going to Chicago? Does it really make sense? exactly um like i want chicago people that work i was really happy when the show ultimately came there but then there was all this kind of like it's so funny talking to you jerry because it's like the rest of like the stuff i was always like i'm like given answers like i'm like oh yes and then this

and then the showrunner said this and then these other actors and i love everybody and like with you i just want to talk with you like we're having a beer that's what we're doing let's do it no i know man and i should do a little bit more that well i will say that um that the first season of the power 4 show because you know as well as I do. We talked about it over beer and pizza in in Brooklyn. That I was like that Fifth had told me that he was so, you know, that he wanted the Tommy spin-off from after season two.

Yeah, 50 always wanted the Tommy show. He always said that. Yeah, Tommy wants to be a gangster. Tommy's a gangster. And so I think, and I appreciate that a lot. And he always fought for me. So I'm very grateful to 50. But for whatever reason that the show didn't go straight away.

And then there was complications. And then there was COVID. And then, you know, they announced their only three seasons, we're edited in the five seasons and all that stuff. So there were complications. But there was never hesitation necessarily. But because the first showrunner was a lovely guy, just not the right fit. Yeah.

That I stressed, I thought I was had before I wrote out like five pages. Nobody was listening to me. I was a little boy who cried wolf that everybody's like, no, he doesn't know what he's Oh, and Joseph wants so much. Why is Joseph being difficult? He's usually so good. and I was just like because I love the character and I'm like this not the character like I don't know if you noticed Jerry or if that you even watch the power court but they were

like trying to say like oh this is when when Tommy lived in Chicago I'm like what the fuck are you talking about we already said Tommy like he holds up a picture he said this is my dad when we lived in flushing before we moved south side Jamaica like Theresa like I was just like what the fuck is happening and like all the original things that they had which I don't think I'm at liberty to say what the original things I was giving ideas left and right about how we changed this damn show to get it back on track. So just to co-alide with Tom, even going to Chicago, I said, look, all right, if he goes to Chicago, rather than have him go back to see his crippled grandmother in a nursing home,

why don't we have him, like, captured by the Serbs? Yes. And watch the Chicago. Why? Because in the original power show, remember, where were the Serbs from? Chicago. So we're back in Chicago. And now he can get taken by these. And I'm just like, but nobody's listening to me. So I thought I was having a heart attack. I know the feeling.

It happened twice. No, but truly I did. So I went to a cardiologist. I got my, I got my carotid test. I had the die test put in me. Oh, you were really bugging out.

No, I thought I was having heart attacks. It was just panic attacks. And so, yeah, I was freaking out, man. And then we get to set and it's COVID. And I'm meeting all these lovely actors. And, you know, the writers are lovely people. In fact, Kirkland Morris, who wrote on the first season, I'm still friends with.

He's a great guy. But I'm just like, I just didn't get it. It just didn't get it. And then we were kind of rudderless by the end of that season, but I had, you know, some friends of mine that came back. I mean, I had Karen Hawks, who you know from directing the power show. He's great director, yeah. He's phenomenal, and he directed so much of that first season that kind of balanced me. I just didn't totally get it.

But the fans did. They were okay. They were cool with it. But then we got Gary Lennon back for the second season. And Gary is the, he's the heart of this guy. Yeah. You know what I mean? He's the New York of this guy.

He's a West, you know, he's, he's a Westie. He's a Westie. He's a, he's, I wouldn't want to push Gary Leonard into a corner. Like, I don't know where I'm going to come out of that guy. So I think that we got, and also stars, and I'm very grateful to Jeff Hirsch for this, making me a producer on the second and third season. It allowed me the accessibility to be like, when Gary says, what do you see wrong? It's for me to press on a Zoom button and talk to people.

This is what I see wrong. this is how I see a solution. This is what Chicago is actually like, now granted, I haven't lived there for forever, Jared, but there's something that you know. Like, I went back early. I talked to cops and robbers. You know, I relearned where's what's going on

within gang land. I grew up in Chicago. There were nations. So you had folks nation and people nation. Then you had all these subsidiaries between them. And people within the same nation, yeah, they fought. It was like minor discrepancies.

But like you had held to pay if the bigger people weren't. And like, yeah, are the BDs going to fight the BGDs? Are they going to fight within the SGDs? Sure, because you're talking about Latin folks and black folks. And when you're in the lockups, it's like, you know, people have to go here. But you're all folks. So, you know, you're going to be cool with these guys.

But when that head, those heads got broken off in the 90s to the early 2000s. It was all hell broke loose. And so I was just like, look, I get what we're doing, but we have to represent this city kind of correct. otherwise the city is not going to accept us and if we don't get blessed locally we will not be accepted globally well you got there you definitely got there

and you got you I was about to say all that work on the New York accent and then you're like Tommy's from Chicago I thought he's from Chicago what stuff well also I was the only person cast out in New York for the original power show you know what's better than the one big thing two big things exactly

The new iPhone 17 Pro on TELUS's five-year rate plan price lock. Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever, plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at TELUS.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. It's great to see you guys on the screen together. I feel like this is going to break the internet to see Tommy and Proctor back. And Joe, I do want to ask you this first, but I do want to talk about the scene where you kill Jerry because I watched it.

It's just like, it's funny to me. I have a question for you. But in regards to Tommy, you know, like, you've played this character for a long time. And I'm sure you've had to the process of going to some of these intense places and dark places. As me as an athlete, I think it's just fascinating to see you guys work in that direction. How hard, how hard is it for you to, you know, to leave Tommy? at work or to balance and separate kind of that role and that character to just every day job zero problem zero problem whatsoever it's not a problem at all and I think the big thing for me is that I came from the theater and that you can't survive doing you know a six month run or anything like that being that character all the time I mean even Daniel day Lewis like I don't know man I don't know if I buy that he stayed in that like that for the whole time was he linking the whole time maybe he did and that's cool and I get it but there's also a thing within the theater community where you go out afterwards and you hang

out afterwards and you kind of developed this muscle of flipping the light switch on and off. I always said that in the power show, I kept Tommy as close as I needed them. My first obligation was for the truth in Tommy. I didn't produce that show. I was just dedicated to the acting part. So if the actor for me meant to go visit Southside Jamaica, meant to go hang out on Guy Brewer, It meant to be in some of those parks and on those streets and meeting those people and talking to see what's the reality of where Tommy Egan would have come from. And the reality is, is a lot of guys that I met, even though Tommy has a very specific dialect that's very New York.

And I'm glad, God bless Michael Rappaport for saying that he couldn't believe that I wasn't from New York. So that gave me a lot of confidence. But Tommy being from the hood in the way of like, I still base Tommy from what I heard. And that was that these guys, these white kids from the hood men that I met still a lot of times had a default to kind of just sounding like a teamster. But it would be like influence because they grew up in that community. It was like it had to be like it was no thought at all. Or like, like, why does this guy be like this? You know what I'm saying?

It's like there has to be like, yeah, what's this guy here? But like, what's this guy here? Like, why is he here? I love it. I don't understand. You know what I mean? You've got to explain to me like four or whatever. But, like, but there's still that there's, it's, it's, I think it's a delicate calibration that, that, um, took a lot of experience to, to, to behind the eyes and in the streets to make sure, make sure it was right.

Well, you, you obviously play that role incredibly. So I want to go back to the scene where you kill my boy, Jerry. Yes. Yes. Only one said he found it funny. The only guy in America said, well, I found it funny because I'm like, dude, you're the worst shot I've ever seen on TV. Yeah, you, I mean, Jerry's fired off, Proctor fired off 50 rounds. I didn't direct scene. I understand. I'm just saying as a fan. I generally don't know.

Like, what is a process like? I mean, you've obviously killed off tons of people in the show. But like, Jerry, like, what is that process like when you find out you're killing off Proctor? Go back to that day, shooting that day. Are there any fun stories behind the scenes? I literally thought, man, people are going to hate me. And we did it over two days. Remember, Jared?

Like a week difference or so, two weeks different. Yeah. We did it. And then we had to do the reverse cover. coverage on it, my coverage, you were already dead. So it was my coverage. So you weren't in the thing. So it was my coverage like two weeks later.

And then the director who I'm not going to say the name, right? I mean, people could, you can just look at the episode. He killed the episode. He killed the episode. He was great. But he wanted me to say the line when he goes, this isn't over Tommy to me to me to say, it is for you. He kept wanting me to hit you, but I didn't want to do it. I remember that.

I kept going, it is for you. Like, you know, like. It is for you. You know, like, it is for you, but it is for you. Like, it is for you. I just wanted to say it how I wanted to say it. I was just like, I don't want to get, he's like, just as an option. How many takes did you do of that?

It is for you, quite a few. I couldn't, but the shell casings was, but the budget was high. I mean, our budget on the four show was less than half, I think, about what the power show was. By the end, anyway. Well, I think we had the luxury, too, of knowing the show was coming to an end. So they were getting rid of the ghost's penthouse, right? So I guess Courtney and everyone was just like, you know what? If we're going to get rid of it, let's fucking destroy it.

So we had this hilarious. I mean, it's no noise complaints. Nothing. Nothing. You walked out. You got away with it. I walked out of it. I took the elevator down.

But that said, one of the reasons why Jerry didn't, or why Proctor didn't get any real off on Tommy was like the awkwardness of like we, it was hard for me to think about a guy. just not having um who's got balls i mean proctor had frigging balls so it was hard for me to be like he's taken such remember though remember that they had you behind the couch like this and i was just like yeah yeah i don't mind you know so i bet there's there's a suspension i think what cordney did brilliantly and she did she you know made that show brilliant um and also shout out to my boy gary lennon uh for you know especially coming in and doing really amazing work on that show but what Courtney did, I think, brilliantly, she didn't make New York. She made New York to get blessed by New York, but she made New York adjacent.

But she made it real. I mean, she worked her butt off and did an incredible job of making this dichotomous, complex world that it was real. And so I think that in our real world, that was the truth. So it's not necessarily what would happen here, right here in New York, where I am at 41st and Park. don't come here um but uh but it it was real in the power world and universe so i appreciated that so i remember when i first came on season two i obviously i watched season one right but i had not i didn't know you in real life uh i knew some of your work beforehand i've obviously was the pregnant guy on gray's anatomy that was your favorite when i get on you know it's season

two and like then i meet you and i'm like i feel like i understood you because we talked a lot about the theater and I was like okay I got a like I got a handle on who you are which ended up helping me so much because I think I was talking to Matt off the air it's like of course we have the death scene I mean you've put knives to my throat yeah bent my arm back and let me just tell you like no actor you could tell me do you enjoy getting beat up in the sea it's not no you it's part of a story so you're happy to tell a story but no actor wants to be getting their ass kicked on screen but also it's like I don't know you hear stories like people do get hurt when you're doing this shit. And like, I always

have the most, I've always had the most trust with you because I knew, no, and maybe it's because I knew you came from the stage. Like, I just remember that one scene when you have my arm bent back for like four hours. We're shooting. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. Joe's bending my arm backward for four hours.

Against a fucking brick wall or it was like a metal door. Up against a brick cold wall 30 degrees in New York and I'm like, this could go horribly wrong if it was with someone else. Like, it wouldn't have taken much to pop my shoulder out. And even where we're Holy feet. I'm so into it.

Because I'm so Tommy, Jerry. I'm just saying. To make it real. I listen, I've gotten hurt before. You said you've gotten hurt. I've gotten hurt in fight scenes and stuff before. I've gotten hurt. I had my sternum crack.

Oh, geez. Get your sternum. Jesus. Well, you have a six foot six over 200 pound guy actor that they talk you into doing the stunt with that they're like, no, no. Because I've done stunts my whole career. And I'm really quite good at them. Very athletic and I get it.

Now I have a stunt double dude. Most of the... Do that. Yeah. Hey, you. Put the ice coffee down. Get out there. But they talked me into. They're like, oh, this guy was a college athlete. And I should have said no. I should have said no. But like, you know, the actor in us, this is before the power show. So I was just like, I need to get paid. I need my next. I want these, maybe these people will like me better if I do this. But then I'm on the ground and I can't breathe. And I'm like, what the hell? And I'm like, I got to go to the hospital. And then they're like, oh, we already sent your stunt double home. I'm like, well, you shouldn't ought to do that.

That was a bad idea. Yeah. So that was a one. That was a one. One of several times I've gotten really hurt. But again, coming from the theater and having to do that night after night after night, and if you mess that up with the person, you're screwing your whole company. You're screwing the whole performance. So it's like there's no reason we made it look real because it's not up to me to make it look like it's hurting. It's up to you. A hundred percent.

Correct. Jerry pulls hamstrings playing, you know, 40-year-old and over basketball. I've seen like, I've seen like Connolly broke his leg on set. Kevin Dillon broke his arm playing basketball. I've seen bones break. You had your sternum broken. I mean, I'm not trying to sound like, oh, poor us. But like I learned that a young age, let the stunt man do their job.

Let's put the ice coffee and the smoothies down. And let's get in there. Yeah, but you were much more successful at a young age because I had to put it like this. I was in an interview with Morris Chestnut. And he's just like, well, you know, you know, I've been doing a long time too, Joseph. If I said, yeah, I've been doing it as long or longer than you, Marst, but you have been successful. That's the difference. You mentioned 50 earlier, and you guys have built just an incredible, I mean, work relationship, friendship.

Do you remember just initially meeting him and the memories you had and just how he's, how he's kind of just helped your career? Yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday, man. We went into the G-unit offices when they were on 40th and 8th. Well, Mari and I went up to the office, and I had this guy who, in my, everybody who meets me, they're like, damn, Tom, you're so small. But like, it was the exact. You're not that small. Well, I mean, because everybody wants Tommy to be six, too, and I'm five, ten, and change.

And, uh, I meet fifth. And fifth is a beast. Yeah, he's a big dude. Yoked. And he just gives me the biggest hug. And he's like, man, we're lucky to have you, man. That audition was crazy. And like, all your audition, because I had, I auditioned five times for the Tommy role.

And, uh, uh, it was just like the. the warmest, kindest thing, then he was always accessible. Now, do I think that he was totally upfront with me the whole time? No, he's an executive producer. They're doing a lot of things behind the scenes, but I never felt like he didn't have my best interests at heart in some sort of way. Now, he's a, he's got gangster written all over him, and he really is a hustler. And there is a duplicity in that, but I got to tell you, if it existed, and I'm no dummy, if it existed, I don't think that it was ever, ever malicious. And I have had people that I felt have been malicious.

I will say this, though, too. Fifth said to me between seasons two and three, where I said, Fiff, I'm so grateful. This is the best. He's like, Joe, look, to know you is to love you. You should have your own show. You're going to have your own show. But look, when you don't make me money no more,

I ain't going to fuck with you. Just telling me. Keep it real. And he kept it real. I'm glad I'm still making a money. You can't stop now. Listen, I've had like the weirdest relationship in him because he did a cameo in power

where he pulls up next to me. Now it's one of the more famous memes of him pulling away laughing at me. Oh, an a garage. Oh, an entourage. And he shipped out his own car. Like we had big budgets on that garage. We could get you whatever car you want.

He's like, no, I'm bringing it. He shipped out from the East Coast his own car for that scene. And I just remember like, that's such a interesting move. And then when I saw that he was doing power I'm like, this dude, I mean And Courtney is such a huge fan of yours too, man

And I know that's real Because she was just a fan of your acting And I know that she tailored that role to you But you showed up and you showed out man You mean, you came you came dedicated I remember you were nervous You were nervous though that first Well, a lot of legalese dude

You were saying a lot of like I was like man But I felt like I had your back Like is he gonna be good? You saved me and what So Courtney can't who You know the only person Joe you've been doing this 35 years.

I'm not about 25 years. I'm like 39. 39. God bless you. I'm like 25 or 6. Courtney's the only person who has ever said, hey, I'm going to write something for you. I got an idea. I think you're, I'm going to write something for you and actually called and sent over the

material because she did it. I've had that said to me 30 times. You got to give love. I give so much love. But Matt, my first day really is, you know, Joe's character, Tommy's locked up. They send me in as the fix. to get them out. Monologues of prosecutorial malfeasance and like, I'm looking words of.

I know there was people at stars who didn't think I could do it to begin with. So they were like, ha, see, we told you this guy can't play a lawyer. And you crushed it. Well, Joe, again, being like giving was just like, I don't know, we had a few moments there where it just calmed down. And it's like, look, just say whatever. But just you know what the intention is. Go do it.

And that's, I mean, that was like day two for. me was me talking to you about prosecutorial malfeasance. And look, now I'm playing a lawyer on the reasonable doubt thing. And I do think of you, because I'm like, even in my, the deepest, like, most legally stuff I have to say, I'm like, this is nothing like they gave Jerry. I'm doing a cake walk over here. Joe, is there, um, I, when I played football, always like, even in like year seven, I'd always walk off the field and be like, damn, like that was, I got to play against

Tom Brady or like Ray Lewis. You know, you still have those moments as. And I'm sure, I know Jerry and I've talked about this. And when you look at your career and I know Tommy's been a big part of it, but you've had a great career. You've worked with just, you worked with a lot of great people. Is there someone that has stood out to you over your career that was like, holy shit, dude. Like I made it like this is my moment or like is there ever someone that's made you feel that way? I don't know about it.

I've never felt any moment ever in my life. I may have to keep it real with you that I've ever felt like I've made it. I still, when people are like, oh, how does it feel to be famous? I'm like, who are you talking to? But, and that's being honest. And I've never felt that. But I will say that I loved working with Tom Cruise so much. I would love to do something else with Tom, because Tom is just such a constant

professional. And he is like a little kid. Like when people are like, oh, he's up to this or he's up. Like, he's not, I don't think that guy's up to anything. He just is so happy. He loves, he loves life. He loves making films. He loves films.

in general and like did people get fired on jack reacher i'm sure it seemed like it but i think those were the people that didn't bring their a game and weren't like didn't want to be there or like had an attitude or didn't show up to play you know what i mean like the a game like the top ratings like these greats like i think that probably like you i mean any professional athlete i truly have nothing but admiration for being you know going through the chicago park districts you know athletics and you know even people who were great in high school, I'm like, holy cow, you threw the ball. How fast? That's unbelievable. So nothing but admiration for athletes, but I think in the same way that we're in these, this is not like boxing

where there's nowhere to hide, but on these team sports where you can excel like you do in an ensemble in theater. I think that there is something to be said for like giving yourself over to that game, like being, being nothing but present for this one thing right now, not thinking about your grocery list or your wife, but thinking about how to run that play, thinking about that, that tackle or that reception or whatever, just being totally dedicated to the moment. I think there is such a similarity within what both of us do. So to me, the best was like working with somebody like Tom Cruise and my buddy Jai Courtney, who was in the Reacher Show, who's still one of my dearest friends, but then truly like working

with Jerry. Like, I didn't even watch Entourage, but I know who the fuck Turtle was. I'm like, oh, I want to see this guy's up. But I want to know what this guy's about. like how and he was so dedicated to making this great character that was like I love this guy working with dom lumbar dominec lombardosie who i've loved in everything with my man joe perino chris tardio now like all of uh i don't just love italians by the i know tardio for like 30 years by the way i know tardio for a very long time he is so good in power talented guy way do you see

him in the third season i mean he's just he's so why that guy he's such a hand he's this handsome Italian guy from Brooklyn. Staten Island. Born in Brooklyn, raised in Staten Island. He loves to make the... Exactly. Jerry is just like, nah, nah. He's Staten Island, bro.

It might have been born in Benson Hearst, but you were raised in Staten Island. I think about you every time I go to Bay Ridge, by the way. That's my neighbor. You know, we're going to let you go, but I have to ask, because I get excited about stuff like this. And I know you got your production company now,

and I know directing is something that you you talked about and want to do and like I remember when entourage was ending I spent a lot of time in the writers room because I wanted to write and I'm fortunate enough I got to write a few episodes and that's sort of a part of my life but I just to me you're a storyteller at heart like you're a great actor but I think also you are a story even like on this pod today the way you're telling stories is just it's just a little different than normal so I want to hear a little more like Is that just something that you're going to, I mean, acting will always be there and something you're always going to do because you're great at it.

But, I mean, I could see you behind the camera, crush you. Yeah, man, directing is really where I'm super comfortable and what I really love to do. I also have, you know, all those wonderful hours I got to spend not only on the power show, but over all of these years as an actor, but really in the power show when you have, when you're respected in that way, you know as well as I do, Jerry. That it's like you have to be at that upper echelon, a couple of numbers where you can ask, you go oh anybody can ask anybody anything you can but if you're like me you don't to a point to slow down their day or take any of their time or whatever but i ended up being able to ask

so i know what everybody does on set and so i i feel like i can go as far as they want me to go if they want me to ask for specific lenses i can or i can let i can do a little bit of both or i can let the dp tell the dp how i'm feeling how how the movement i wanted it to go through the story right now i want something that's going to be a little bit more jolted right now. So, you know, can we do, can we, you know, if they say, well, do you want, you know, I'm like, oh, yes, of course I want a handheld, but I want you to suggest it because that's your job. I think through Gary Lennon, what I really understood the what I tend to gravitate towards is empowerment. So I think what I see Gary doing a lot of times is like,

you're great at this. So let me empower you to be the best gaffer you can be and have the most input that we can have from you so you can do the best job you can. So I'd like to empower the rest of the crew so we can all kind of collaborate on these shots and tell the story ultimately that I've put in a lot of time and a lot of passion

and I'd love to do it. So I hope I get to do a bunch of origins and hopefully if there's any other stuff. But then also other shows because I feel like that's where it lies for me, but also producing because I love to know the new story. We'll talk about it next time I'm on. I'll say next time

And next time when you do your own movie or show, you know your first call over there to practice. Well, and maybe I want to let me put hands on someone finally. Let Jerry practice a shooting and kill somebody on a show. Okay, yeah, exactly. By the way, it's just before we let you go to, it's great to see you guys together, man. It's always a treat for me to see Jerry wrap it up with his old buddies, dude. So we appreciate you coming on, man. You're the best, Joe.

Best deluxe season three. When you got time and you're back on the East Coast, let me know when you're free for a meal or whatever, Jared. For sure, man. It's been too long, man. All right, buddy. Good luck, man. Season 3 and 4. Love you well.

You too, Joe. Appreciate you, bro. All right, it's time for fresh take of the week presented by Wendy's. Wake up with Wendy's breakfast. We've been on a good run with these fresh takes. This isn't necessarily a take, but in honor of Joe Shakora, who unalived Joe Proctor and Power, we're going to do greatest or most memorable TV deaths of all time. We're going to pick three apiece and just discuss.

And this could be the ones that really hit you, Maddie. Hit you right in all the fields. Maybe you cried. Maybe you threw something. This is a challenging one because there's so many. Why don't we go? I want to go one one, pass it back? I'll just, yeah, I'll just, well, I'm going to start with.

Go ahead. I'm going to start with Misha Barton. Oh, you went to the O.C. I went to the O.C. California. Played Marissa Cooper from the O.C. She was killed off in the third season finale. I believe she died in a car crash caused by her ex-boyfriend.

Meaningful to me because that was like my teenage. Obviously, I grew up in the O.C. So it was like Beverly Hills, 90210, Mellrose Place when I was a little younger. And then as I got a little bit older, you had the O.C. And all of those. So, yeah, I mean, that was, that was, it was tragic. It was just tragic how that all went down. So I always think of TV death sometimes as the actor in me.

Like, is that a creative decision or a contract dispute? Right, right. And Misha Barton might have been a, that one might have been a contract dispute. It's right. But, uh, all right, you want me to throw one at you? Yeah. I'm going to stick in that era because this one affected me. And you youngens might not know the original 90210. Scott playing around with dad's pistol twirling it.

Remember, there was a big thing like, someone's going to die on 90210. Was it Brandon? Is it Dylan? It was Scott, unfortunately. but I was young for that one. That one stuck with me for a while. One of the greatest TV series of all time, Beverly Hills 9-0-2-1-0. This one got me.

This one I cried. This was a show that my wife and I watched from start to finish. This Is Us and Jack Pearson. Yeah. I mean, the show, if you haven't watched This Is Us, go watch it because it's like the most relatable show. If you just have a family and you're kind of going through it. everyday life, right? I think that was the draw. Manny Moore was great, and Milo was great, and Milo plays Jack Pearson. He dies in the house fire. Remember he goes back in? I don't know if

you ever saw the show, but he goes in. And then, well, he comes out and then he, I think he dies from like inhalation. Smoke inhalation. Smoke inhalation in the hospital. But man, I'll tell you what, dude, I was sobbing on that episode. Completely sobbing. That show made me cry every single episode. That's by design. Let me just say, I'm with you on that. And also, the fire started. And every time, Bree and I, we use this kitchen device a lot, started from a balty crock pot. Okay. So every time Bree and I put the crock pot on, I'm just like, keep an eye on that thing. Keep an eye on that. Oh, Jack Pearson, man. Jack. That one hit me hard. All right. One more from you?

All right. My, Ned Stark, Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones, to me, is still the greatest show ever made. And I will die on that hill. But Ned Stark is like the main character, the dad. He's the guy, right? And then he gets beheaded. And you're like, holy shit, this show is fucking tough. And that, I mean, talk about, I mean, you can name every death in that show is one of the greatest, most shocking deaths of all time. But Ned Stark set the tone.

His death set the tone for what, in my opinion, is the greatest show to ever. It was like a football team coming out, establishing the road. We're going to show you what we're going to do and you try to stop it. Well, the red, the red wedding. Like, I can name that show I love. There's so many, I mean, there's so many deaths in that one. We should, we should have a whole episode on Game of Thrones one day. I'm down.

I'm down. All right. What's your, what's your big boy? For me, for me, I go Wallace from the Wire, which was played by young Michael B. Jordan. And who, what was 13? Well, you got to watch the Wire, Matt. And it was, it was like two teenage friends. One of them through gang pressure has to execute his boy.

And they're like 13 years. It was like, it's heartbreaking. And Michael B. Jordan was unbelievable. So that is on the list for me. I'm going breaking bad, but it's not Walter White. It's his brother-in-law, DEA agent Hank Schrader. That whole part in the desert when like Walter's locked handcuffed in the car and they're basically going to execute his brother-in-law in front of him, that one has always, always stayed

with me. And we have to have a Sopranos cast member. There's so many. The one that always stood out to me, because I love this character, Briss Maltasanti, aka Michael Imperioly, where Tony Soprano had the golden opportunity where he could just make Christopher go away and actually not have to be worry about being caught for murder. So that one is always still, I can't even watch that episode. Can I give two honorable mentions really quick? I want to give one on, honorable mention to you, Proctor. Thank you. I've died a lot on camera. You've died a lot. And then also my wife, she played Agent Vega in the last season of

the mentalist. And she got shot in the chest in a shootout in a restaurant. And she died on camera. I remember that was pretty cool. So shout out to Josie, the white. Well, the biggest contract dispute one was Charlie Sheen on two and a half. Oh, yeah. They came back next to his like, oh, we got hit by a train. You got hit by a train. That's it. And then they moved on from them. Shoutouts to Wendy's. That's our fresh take of the week.

All right, Annie Agar, joining us each and every week as she does, courtesy of twisted tea. Grab a refreshing twisted tea today. Annie, we're going to play twisted trivia today, right? Now, we have a twist on it, I've heard. Is this true? We have a twist on the twisted trivia. Yes.

Usually we do a little spin on twisted trivia, but this week we're going to do not just NFL players for you guys. We're going to do actors. or some sort of sports to reference actor that you have to figure out. Is this just to try and help Jerry get back? Is this like... It's basically leveling the playing field.

You know, we're trying to, yeah, we're trying to make sense. Yeah, because when you answered one of the picture identity questions and you said, oh, yeah, I threw to him. That's when we knew maybe we're on Eve, because I've never seen that dude without a helmet in my life. If I beat you at your own game, then you need to just stop. Well, here's my concern. Annie and I will just do this segment.

A lot of actors live in Manhattan Beach, so I'm worried. that's good. You're going to show a picture. Matt's going to be like, oh, I do have an entertainment background, Jerry. I mean, I was going to say, isn't your wife like big in the acting space too? She was. Basically, Matt just got it covered on all angles. So I would actually prefer to do acting entertainment. Oh, great. Jerry, you're screwed. Before we get started, real quick, Annie, what was worse? The Packers lost or the helmet uniform choice? What was more acceptable by you? Did you see Romeo Dobbs helmet, how funny that looked? I loved it. I actually loved the leather. It wasn't even the real leather. everything sucked my life is terrible and the Panthers

are the best team in the NFL other than that things are great guys are you gonna do like I play Jordan Love in my fantasy this week that was just a bad it's huge

he showed up like Brett Favre this week and he showed up like that Favra from something about Mary yeah yeah yeah

just all those two throws were just god awful good news though he did find the guy wide open in the end zone just wasn't our own guy that was one of the worst passes I've ever seen in my life.

And now they got Philly this week. Ah, man. Everything's going to be great. And they just traded. And they just traded with the dolphins. Oh, man. Wait, I have a dilemma. I have a question for both of you.

Interesting. I have the opportunity to start Jordan Love because my guy's on a buy or Jackson Dart. I got to go dart, right? His fantasy knowledge. Who do the Giants play? Doesn't matter. He's a rushing touchdown and a passing touchdown every week.

Yeah, he is. He's getting like 30 points a week. I would take him over. Because he's just one-man band out there over Jordan Love, who... I know, okay. And, Matt, I got something for you real quick. You sure do. What's up? Our boy, Danny Dimes, returned back to normal a little bit.

It was bound to happen. He's not going to play a perfect season. But a lot was made, too, of, oh, he's outside, on grass, cold weather. And I know, like, us non-quarterbacks sometimes and betters read into that. Is that a thing? Because he was never good at Giant Stadium. And that turf is the word. That field is the word.

conditions are hard. Is he, does the dome really help a guy like that? Oh, yeah. Horrible in Pittsburgh. I would say, I played with the perfect example, Kurt Warner. And Kurt was great. He's a Hall of Famer. But he was built to be a dome quarterback.

He played in the old dome for the Rams back in the day, the greatest show on turf. He went to New York. He played briefly for the Giants. And then he went to Arizona, which we had the dome. You know, we had a retractable, but we were always inside. there is a massive advantage for a quarterback in a dome that can consistently play in that. When you get to the weather games, that's why, that's why, like, teams will, like, that's

why the hand-sized thing comes in, which I think is so dumb, but you have to be able to throw and grip a ball when there are, you know, when it's weather. And so definitely, it definitely is something. I wouldn't attribute that to what Daniel Jones did this past weekend. Because it wasn't even that cold yet. It was like 40. Like, what's going to be if he's going into Buffalo in the playoffs like yikes yeah so there's something to the dome for sure i don't think this was that though i think like you said i think it was just one of those games man sometimes you just have a shit game and it snowballs and you move on to the next well now i got something for both of you because i was thinking about this when i was having my morning coffee and we can do

this quick before our trivia game to this so to me there's a bunch of teams that are crossed off for the playoffs maybe they could sneak in And so we could debate that. But I was thinking if we had a draft where we were going to combine two teams who have absolutely zero shot, they're essentially out of the playoffs of this season, they're just playing for jobs and stats because they get paid a lot of money. If we could combine two of those teams, is there any combination that would make an instant playoff team?

Okay. And I thought about this long and hard, and I have my two. Matt and I were debating, Annie, earlier, like, well, do the Bengals count. I have to. I have to. The Bengals do count as a team that's out. I don't know if I would be willing to count the Ravens yet. I, to me, they're still very much alive. They're still on top of the division, right? But let's just be clear, even though the 49ers, to Matt's point off the year, the 49ers are in third place and they're six and three. They are very much in the mix.

They count. So there's a few teams we could like, if you want to cheat, fine. But I have my two. Does anybody want to go first, or should I be the guinea big? I feel like there are not that many that could cross over to answer your question so I wonder if we'll have a couple of the same two I want you to go first yeah let's lead off I'm gonna go I'm glad you said Bengals

because I'm gonna start with the Bengals I'm gonna take the Bengals offense and the Browns defense you tell me that that is not one of the best combos in the NFL right now you're taking Flacco to lead you to a I am I am

I think he's yeah I think he's absolutely insane I mean the defense has been see I'm going even deeper with like, I'm going to select some defensive players. Oh, okay. And I'm going to select some offensive players. Jerry thought really hard.

I'm going, this is my homer pick. I'm going with my New York football giants. Because to Maddie Isis' point, you've got to have a QB. And of all these bad teams, that's a good one. And there's some offensive weapons and defensive weapons. I like, but the team, I think, that's under the radar,

they have some blue chippers that if you pair that, is the Raiders. Give me Max Crosby. Gimmy Gimmy Brock Bowers. They have some blue chippers. Just basically take all of them without Pete Carroll and they'd be great. Essentially, well, we do have a coaching problem. It's either Daible or Carol.

But I feel like if you combine the blue chippers of the Giants and the blue chippers with the Raiders, that's like a 10 and 7 playoff team instantly. Boom. That's a good one. Raiders is good. That's not bad. I was going, I was going, see, I was more along the lines with Annie. I was just, I was splitting it down one offense, one defense, since you didn't specify.

clearly with this whole thing. This is a lot of thought at 7 o'clock in the morning. Which is the most ridiculous question. But I'm going to go with the Cowboys' Offense and the Browns defense. Yeah, that's another good one. You got, I mean, Cowboys' Offense is really good. Their defense is trash. Browns and Miles Garrett.

I'm a long line as any. You need one player to disrupt a game. You have Miles Garrett. I understand that. I'd take Miles over Max Crosby, but... Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that was really good.

Great talk, Jerry. Yeah. You didn't like this exercise? I thought it was fantastic. Got our brains going. Matt clearly didn't like it. All right, let's go to some Twisted Tea trivia. I'll wait for your brain buster next week.

Listen. That you can give us over coffee. Any, what you got for us today. All right. Are you guys ready? I'm very interested to see how this plays out. Who's better in the acting department? Okay.

Question number one. We have three questions, two pictures again. Question number one. Which team did Rod Tidwell I'll play for. Arizona Cardinals. Wow. Jerry got it. Yeah. Okay. Question number two. Which team made their trick play

the annexation of Puerto Rico famous in the last minute win over the Cowboys? Which team? Oh my gosh. Annexation of Puerto Rico. Over the Cowboys? Mm-hmm.

Eagles? Little Giants. Little Giants. Yeah. Oh, you hate the movies. Oh, shit. Oh, my God. I just watched that movie two weeks ago. Oh, my God. By the way, I got Arizona Cardinals, too.

That's fine, though. Yeah. But as history has shown, you were way too slow. I mean, we could go back to the tape. You started it, but I finished it fast. I beat you by a full second. Let's go. Okay, tied it one in one.

Question number three. Which college did former number six overall pick Bo Callahan attend? Great movie. Oh, gosh. Oh, no. I just watched this too Nobody came to his birthday party Wisconsin

Yes Good I had to think about that one a second That's great That's a great question Well done by our producer Okay two pictures now gentlemen Are you ready

Yes Picture number one Matt's up two one Picture number one Who is this person John David Washington Yes Wow

Come see me boy I didn't know Denzel's son played He played NFL football Correct. Never knew that. I love this category.

Let's go. All right. It's two to two. Question. Am I not doing better? Am I not doing better? Our picture number five, this is to win it all. Here it is.

Terry Cruz. I got it. That's a tie. No, it's not a tie. Shut up. I don't know if the audio lagged, but it sure sounded like Matt said it first. Oh, that wasn't even close. I couldn't have said it any quicker.

I said it like a split second later. Oh, same thing with Arizona Cardinals, Jare. Same thing with Arizona Cardinals. I was a full. second ahead of you on Arizona. Eddie, Adam. Are we serious here? That was not even close. Eddie, Eddie and Adam, jump in real quick. Was Rod Tidwell a clear and decisive victory? Yes, yes. Rod Tidwell was a clear and decisive victory. But Jerry, unfortunately, Matt wins the bag on Tiberg. Yeah, dude. That wasn't even close. Was it clear and decisive? Are you deaf? Yes, it was clear and decisive. I'm sorry.

I tried to. I try to. Oh, my gosh. Well, the record. It's been steady. Jerry, you can't even beat me at your own game. The competitiveness and Jerry is actually starting to get a little upset. It is widely understood that Jerry has the faster internet of the two, by the way. So, Matt won. That's hilarious. That is the way. How is that my fault that he has boost mobile or whatever is?

No, by the way, by the way, you are at a complete advantage and I still kicked your ass. That's the sad. You've got to get off that weak Wi-Fi, Matt. Come on, man. Upgrade the garage setup. A shout out to Twisted T. Thank you guys. That was fun.

This might be my favorite. I like this much better. It's fun. Much better than showing pictures of James and Grabber. It allows you to actually participate. I mean, we want you to participate. We'll give you a participation trophy as well, Jerry. Matt, they showed pictures of-

Matt Heisman. They showed pictures of players you threw to in like, in workouts that I've never seen without a helmet before. Jerry, we've played nine weeks, nine games, whatever, and that was one photo. I'm up seven to two. So do you want to talk about the other ones that I wanted? just the one that you're hanging your hat on. There are definitely some photos of some people that you know and have seen.

I had no idea who that was and you won it. Great. But it's not how you start. It's how you finish. Personally, those were so upset. Terry Cruz is a very, very famous man. Okay, yeah, he's a famous actor. He hosts a hundred television shows.

He is a very, very famous man. So it didn't really go obscure. What's the old saying? excuses are like but holes everybody got one everyone has one that's you never heard that excuse me no but i'm going to use that now that's hilarious annie thank you very much for joining us good luck to your packers thank you gentlemen where are you this week mattie highlight of my week uh where am i Iowa Iowa Iowa Oregon fun great town old heaven is gronk joining you again this week gronk will not we get gronk about twice a year actually we have michigan oh house state at the end and

that that's going to be a three hour show with grong and I think a little birdie told me a goat, it might be coming on the show. No way. Oh, that'd be electric. That little bird is going to be a great show. No, that's in a month. I can't believe, by the way.

We're in November. College football has done the rest in four weeks. It's wild. I know, because it's always around Thanksgiving. It's a weekend of Thanksgiving. Yeah, I mean, championship weekend is first weekend of December and then it's playoffs. Real quick about goats,

and I'm not going to go into this take because it captured me this morning. I get a lot of deep thought this morning. Lawrence Taylor, Lawrence Taylor has poked the only hole that I've ever heard that made me go, that's kind of interesting in the Tom Brady is not the goat conversation. I'm not saying I agree. Interesting. And he's probably being like an era guy I played in this era, but his goat is Joe Montana.

And he kind of equated it to like Brady's LeBron, Montana is MJ, never lost in the Super Bowl, played in an era with the rules were different. You could literally like physically try to kill a quarterback. I'm not saying I agree. It just made me take another sip of my coffee and go, huh. Like greatest career versus maybe. How many rings is MJF? Yeah.

Six. And how many does LeBron have? Four. Montana's got four. How many does Brady have? Seven. He's seven. Taylor's just like he also is seven and three in the Super Bowl, which is amazing.

But he lost three times. No one's ever touched. Terry Bradshaw also has four and four in the Super Bowl for the Steelers. Hey, I'm not saying I'm agreeing. I'm just telling you something that made me take a sip of my coffee and go, hmm, that's interesting. And I want no more part of it. A little controversy in the morning.

Jerry's had an interesting morning, Jerry. He has. I'm glad he gets to share it with us, Matt. A lot of, yeah, I know. A lot of the thoughts that didn't go really anywhere, but it's okay. And you know what? I'm feeling more confused than when I came on the podcast.

Did I confuse you guys this week? I don't know what Jerry's doing. But I like to see when Jerry's in a good mood because the coffee's hidden right for sure. My take of Jackson Dart needs to be rested by week 15 still holds up because what happened to Jaden Daniels scared me. And I want Jackson Dart protected at all costs. He should have been out of the game.

He doesn't even matter. They punted. They punted it down 387. Get him out. Anyway. I was going to say thank you to Adam and Eddie for producing the show today and all that. But you know what?

You guys sided against me when you jumped on the show. So no thanks to you. But thank you, Annie. Matt, safe travels. And we'll be back next week, guys. All right.