Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - LaDainian Tomlinson’s Jordan Aura, Philip Rivers Trash Talking and Sacking The QB With Shawne Merriman

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Chargers legend and former NFL sacks leader Shawne Merriman joins the show to talk all things Chargers and more from his playing career. From the infamous rookie dinner that cost him about the price of a car, to the amazing things he saw LaDainian Tomlinson do in practice, Lights Out covers it all. The former All-Pro talks about his go to move when rushing the QB, what he saw from Philip Rivers in college that made him hate him and what he saw in the NFL that made him love him. Finally, Shawne talks about his son, a blue chip QB prospect and what it was like to see him get a scholarship offer from his alma mater, and so much more.   Plus, Jerry goes off about his New York Knicks making a trip to the NBA Finals, and in honor of Shawne the guys pick their Mount Rushmore of Freak Athletic Specimens, including the likes of Victor Wembanyama, LeBron James and more.   New episodes of Throwbacks drop every Thursday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also, make sure you’re locked in on social @ThrowbacksShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys & the Throwbacks community. (http://throwbacksshow.com/)      A big thank you to our sponsor:    NHTSA: Click it. Don’t risk it. Paid for by NHTSA. www.nhtsa.gov/clickit  00:00 Show open  04:22 Jerry celebrates the Knicks Finals Run  08:06 Shawne Merriman joins the show  09:10 Shawne on Philip Rivers’ comeback  11:49 Philip Rivers in college vs. In the NFL  12:42 Is Philip Rivers a Hall of Famer?  14:00 Reliving the Chargers vs. Patriots battles  16:01 Shawne on the art of the pass rush  20:47 What’s worse: A crack block or a chip?  22:20 NHTSA Muscle Memory: Shawne’s Go-to pass rush move  24:15 The one lineman that struck fear into Shawne  27:14 Shawne’s legendary rookie dinner  31:45 What was it like playing with LaDainian Tomlinson?  36:40 What was Shawne’s college recruiting like?   38:50 Shawne on Michael Beasley vs. Lance Stephenson  41:35 When in his career did Shawne think of his retirement plan?  44:50 Shawne’s son Justin being recruited to play QB  49:50 The Mount Rushmore of Freak Athletic Specimens   58:00 Timothee Chalamet keeps wining   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know, I'm damn they got in a couple of fights. My, you know, my first week there was like, oh, okay, we're good now. Man, that bill came and I couldn't fathom the zeros. The receipt was so long, due to drop to my ankles. I looked down to the bottom. I thought it said 3,200 and something. I was like, oh, this is great. Yeah, that's not bad.

I'll think, no, I can definitely do this. He was like, no, so I started counting over 32,000. That's so dumb. Oh, man. All right, welcome to another episode of throwbacks. Do us a favor. Go over to all the social. Shulls at Throwback Show.

Subscribe on YouTube Throwback Show. Listen, first of all, I thought I was big with my Nix jacket. You got a starter jacket? That's a starter jacket, baby. That's a starter jacket. That's 1996

New York Nix starter jacket out of the box in the closet on for NBA finals, dude. I'm just a sucker for the starter jacket, man. Even like the baseball ones, but this NICs won. This is like a New York uniform.

I do like your throwback. hat with the rope. You got in going on? Just trying to look as cool as you, buddy. All right. We are going to talk. How are we feeling, buddy? We're going to talk,

Nix before. I don't want to bury the real lead of the episode. We have a great guest for you today. A lot of you know him at, Matt, my lights just went out, bro. That's because we got Sean Merriman coming on the show. Lights out, baby.

Sean Merrimand. Sean Merritt. Favorite. Do you have any run-ins with him, ever play against him? Dude, that's my guy, man. Sack you in the backfield? He never sacked me because we didn't play. I mean, I didn't play enough toward, like the first year, my rookie year, we didn't play them. We were in the same division as them, but I think he was gone by that time when I was in Oakland. Yeah, because I was in Oakland in 2012. He was gone.

But Sean's one of my boys, man. I've known Sean since, I mean, college coming out. We hung out a bunch of the off seasons over the years. Just one of those. dudes. I always saw. It was just such a great dude. And he was a hell of a player, man. Obviously, injuries cut kind of his career short and stuff. But he, those first three or four years in the league, he was like, he was on his way. He's one of the greatest defensive players. And he really changed the game in pass rush. I think so honestly, I haven't talked to Sean in a bit, man, so I'm fired to catch up. And he's got to, and by the way, real quick, he's got a kid, a quarterback kid who's getting highly recruited. And obviously, I've just kind of gone through that. So,

I'm interested to see sort of that process and how he's handled that as well. That's what I want to ask him, too. Like, is that weird you were such an unbelievable pass rush? You're 39 and a half sacks in your first three years. And you got this kid growing up, your son, and like, he's a QB. Like, can you even, can you even help? Well, can you teach him how to, like, run for his life away from a guy that's going to take his head off? Every kid wants to be a quarterback at the start.

So like, it doesn't matter if your dad was Lawrence Taylor or your dad was Patrick Mahomes or whatever. Like, everyone wants to throw the football at first. They either want to be a receiver or a quarterback. Yeah. And you start to see at an early age, they got an arm. And you're like, well, I'm going to start. I'm going to have my kid be a QB. So, yeah, I think class of 2029.

So still got a couple years left in high school. But he's getting recruited. And that's a wild process as a dad. I'll be curious to see how he's handled. It's going to be awesome. One of my favorite guys. I actually were, and I'll bring this up to him, too. I worked out with them for a couple of days at Jay Glazer Gym, which, again, no business

being there. I shouldn't have been there. And also, great, sneaky, quick little entourage cameo, Sean Merriman had when Ari Gold was bringing a football team to L.A., Sean was like a part of the team that was helping bring it in. So Sean Merriman coming up, and then after Sean, we're going to talk, because figured we have, you know, one of the more athletic specimens of all time on the defense event.

We're just going to do our Mount Rushmore of athletic specimens. Yeah, just aliens. Aliens. And I have a feeling the aliens probably going to be on both of ours. Okay. Before we get to Sean, Matt, and I know you probably like hold your eye rolls. I'm not going to take too much of your time. But this Knicks run, okay?

But I just say something really quick. Jump in, jump in because I get going. Because, yeah, I'm not going to say anything. I don't need the eye roll anymore because your Knicks finally got to the finals. Okay. All of the lead up and the off-season. It's the same thing you do with the New York Giants. Preseason, we look different, Maddie.

I don't know. I feel it. It's the same with the Knicks. Now, listen, you haven't won a championship yet, but you got there. You're in the final and all you got to do is get there. So there's no more eye rolls, nothing but respect. And no matter who you guys get, I'm rooting for the New York Knicks, buddy. So the more, obviously, like, shock and awe, like, I let my mind.

my seven-year-old, stay awake to watch it. And once I kind of knew by halftime, my calves are done. This one's a wrap. I like, all right, buddy, you could stay up because I know where we're going to the finals. Brunson got the MVP trophy. My seven-year-old's like, Dad, I'm so happy, but I want to cry. What is this? I had to explain to him what happy tears were.

The most shocking part of all this, Matt, is how stress-free it has been. Yeah. Since really game three and four of the Hawks series where it was like two-one Hawks, and everyone was in a panic, fire Mike Brown. From that moment on, obviously, it's been 11 in a row, and it's been stress. Yeah, the Cavs game was a little stressful, up 22 in game one. But even then, I was like, we're going to win this series.

So everyone, even yourself, I know you fancy yourself, a West Coast guy, and we're watching, we don't know who it's going to be, Spurs or Thunder, right? And what was supposed to be the best series of all time, game one was unbelievable. All those games since game one, O KC Spurs have been, eh, both teams are beating the crap out of each other. Both teams are doing some unethical basketball. And to me, with the Knicks have done,

blowing teams out, yes, you can say it's a boring game when you watch a team up by 30, but when that wave comes, and they go on those 24- match. Here comes the eye roll now. They've gone on like four different,

what are you saying, bro? This is a long-winded answer saying that the West is bad? No, I'm saying, but the Knicks in the first, in the first half of games going on these 25 to 1 runs has been far more impressive

than anything I've seen so far from OKC and San Antonio minus game one where Wemby went when Berserk in game one minus that I have not seen anything in games two, three, four, five where I've been like, whoa!

Crazy! Two very good teams in Oklahoma City as championship pedigree and they're going to be very hard to beat. And what are you going to do if the Thunder beat that ass.

Then what is it? The Knicks beat the Knicks ass? Yeah, then what is it? Haven't even allowed myself to figure out. Make no mistake about it. I want to win. I want a championship. I want to go to the parade.

I'm hoping I get to the finals. I can't watch that soft ass basketball from OKC. You got to me, man. I can't watch that floppy. If it doesn't go the next way in the finals, there will be a lot of sadness and a lot of disappointment, but I cannot look at this team. and just say like, wow, you guys disappointed the fans.

They have done nothing to disappoint. No, you get to the finals, dude, and the run you're on. And they're just playing so hard, and they're playing connected. So, yeah, man. This is crazy. Good luck to you, bro. Thank you. I'm going to take this jacket off for the Merriman interview.

I don't want to look too weird. Leave it on, bro. Leave it on. All right. We're coming back with Sean Merriman. This show is special to me because this is my fucking guy right here. We're joined by defense of rookie of the year, all pro, three-time pro bowler, 2006 NFL Sacks leader, one of the best sax celebrations of all time.

The only guy here to ever be directed by Michael Mann, Jerry, and part of Ari Gold's potential NFL ownership group in entourage. My boy, Sean Merriman. What up, dog? Let's go. What's up, fellas? What's going on, man? God, it's been a while since I've seen you, man.

You look good. You look like you still play, dude. Listen, I wish the way they're paying guys right now, I'll get my ass out there for a couple of snaps. No problem. I feel like you could go out there and get us a set, like, you know, a couple of key third down plays. I feel like you got there and put some heat on the QB still.

You know what's funny is that a lot of us, you know, at least probably within that 10-year period, it's not that we can't play is where we can't recover. Yeah. If I play on Sunday, there's no way in hell I'm making it to a Thursday night football game. It's just, it's not, and I can't practice. So honestly, on that foot, I got, I want to, what did you think if your guy Philip Rivers'

coming back last year and playing. So just the thing, so I was at Antonio Gates's Hall of Fame induction out in camp, right? So, you know, they had the reception after the award show and all that. So we all got together with me Gates, Drew Breeze, L.T. and Phillip. We were all kind of in a circle talking about, you know,

when we were talking more past tense. And I just noticed Philip was talking more in the present. And I said, it didn't click to me to halfway into the middle of conversation. And Phil is very animated, right? Talks with his fans, he gets into it, right? So he still has that part about him. So when the announcement was made, I wasn't shocked at him coming back. I text him because I was worried about his body.

Dude, he looked like 280. Taking those hits at that age, dude, and waking up the next day. Like, you remember how I feel. I don't care how much tort you had or whatever. When it wore off, it was hell. And so I texted him. I said, dude, I already knew he was going to go out there and be able to throw a ball. I wasn't worried about that.

Yeah. When he tried to get up, remember to play when he tried to get up, then it took him two years to get up. I said, there you go. That's it. Dude, he looked, he got it. I mean, he, Phil's, you know, Phil's a big dude, man. But he just like, his, he just looks so old.

But, dude, I give him pride. He balled too. He played good shit. I mean, he completed balls. But, man, he looked old out there. That was why. Madden did him dirty in the game. They made him look like a left tackle in Madden.

And if you tried to use Philip Rivers when he was to play with the cults, he literally looked like a left tackle. You know, the funny part about this is that Phil never been, he's never been athletic. He's never been fast. He never had the strongest arm. It was always how he prepared and his competition. He's just the most competitive person I've ever been around. Not athlete, he's just competitive person.

And that didn't stop like on the field. It was in a weight room. It was playing dominoes. It was cards. He never stopped. That was him walking around the building 24-7. So I wasn't shocked at all that he was. able to go out there and get the job done, right, at all.

I was more just shocked that he was able to go out there and play a full game. Multiple games, right? I was more shocked at that. Well, you know what, too? I love, like, you know, I've heard you speak about playing against Philip Rivers in college, that picture of you too. It's like so sick you two eyeing each other. And that's what I always love, like listening to talk about that.

It's why I love sports and football mainly because, like, that was someone you said, Like, you hated them in college, right? And then you become teammates. And I'm like, listen to you talk about him now. It's like, how could you hate this dude one minute? And then next minute, you're literally in the trenches willing to do God knows what to get the job done for him. It's beautiful. And, you know, I ask his teammates, right?

So in college, you don't, there's no, when you're watching film, you got the vertical and the horizontal view. And so the whole time you just see in Phillips head go back and forth. And you just know he's talking. I'm like, I cannot wait to take this damn dude at all. I just can't wait. And you're talking to him. He's playing, he's talking the whole time, never curses. He never says anything super disrespectful, but you're just not used to a quarterback saying anything back to you the whole entire game.

Fast forward, I get drafted by the charges. And I remember talking to a couple guys on the team. I think Mario Williams was one of them at the time. It was Mandy Lawson. A few other guys that I talked to at that time, they said, dude, you're going to love this guy. I said, you're sure? They said, yeah, you're going to love this, dude. And when I met him, we were close ever since, man.

So he's like just one of the best people to be around. I think I probably know the answer. And I think I'm going to agree with you. But he's got to, he's got to be a Hall of Famer, right? I mean, he's got to get in. Yeah. You know, the thing is, is that first of all, Tom Brady ruined it for everybody because it's only about rings, right?

Like how many rings you got really as a quarterback. That's how you're to the world and fans and everyone else. But if you look at his body, word. To me, I mean, I'm not, and I'm not just saying it because, you know, he's my boy. I'm saying it because his body of work and his numbers he's put up. He's a guaranteed Hall of Famer. But then you throw in the ring factor and everybody questioned it. I think him coming back, because we all forget, the further you get away from the game, people just forget about you. It's just part of the business. I think by him coming back,

solidified, you know, the story they made, the hype they made, the, how big of a news it was, and him go out and actually performed. It reminded people how special that duel really is. I think it put a stamp on anybody who had questions on if he's a Hall of Fame or not. You know, I went back because, you know, I was preparing to talk to. And I know a lot about you. We've hung out and talked before. But, you know, like you said, time goes by and you forget. And now, especially with the guy like Rivers too, you talk about rings and stuff like that.

Man, I watched that the fourth quarter anyway, that 06 Patriots game. I'm not trying to bring up old wounds. I'm sorry. but I just got to say memories slip like I forgot just how in control the Chargers were and then that Marlon McCree interception

and frick it with Troy Brown just popped I was like watching it again this morning I'm like oh my God he just holds on to that ball it's probably ballgame and you smoke I think you smoke the cults in the answer for sure we run through the cults and then we end up playing the Bears Bears

Bears oh the Bears yeah yeah we had that you know it's funny man you say that name Maldon McCree in San Diego, dude, you're allowed to get shot. You got to do it. It's so bad. And in me, man, I hate talking about any former teammate, right? But if you go back and really look at that play, it wasn't like he took off and ran 10 to 15 yards and got stripped.

It was like two steps. Troy Brown poked it out and then they've recovered it. But I was like when the Patriots on their run, dude, it was so many things that happened like that. It just, the ball just bounced the wall. I thought we had a chance to beat them again in the AFC championship game in 2007. Yeah. You know, and we all walked in that game banged up.

I had a knee. Gates had a foot. I mean, L.T. had a knee. We were all walking in that game banged up. It was a play. And I got, I sack Tom Brady twice, two or three times in that game. But it was a play I got him. And not only I hit him, the ball came out, the ball bounced back up right into his, right into his hands.

And I'm like, how? What deal with the devil did you make that ball about it? That never happens. It absolutely never happens where, I mean, somebody else might pick it up, an offense line that will fall on it. But I had him wrapped up, both arms. Somehow the ball bounces back into his hands. And I said, they're just destined to win.

And they were just on their run. Man, that's how the ball bounces in funny ways all the time. We had Jared Allen on last fall. And we had a really awesome conversation about, we had Vaughn Miller saying like rushing the passer and just the art of the past rush and I believe Jerry

what Jared said You got mentioned both times You and Sean You and Sean sort of changed kind of the way the past rush because they were a hand in the dirt

And then you guys were on the outside What was like your philosophy and process of rushing the passer? Well you know it's funny When in college I played this Leo position At University of Maryland I played this position

called the Lee. I was like a stand-up outside. You're in two-point stands, six technique, right over the Thailand. So I had to play the run against the titan. Sometime a double-team by the dropping coverage. I was required to do so much. And so when I got to the league with Wade Phillips, the defense coordinator, Wade had this philosophy like, we want you to go. Whatever you're great at doing, you're going to be doing 80% of, whatever you're not, is 20% what they all know I hate to drop in because it was no money. No money in drop. You weren't covering the flats. It was no money at dropping. And I wanted to go.

the quarterback. So what they did was, they lined me up in a seven technique or non-technique. They figured out that I can also play to run from out there as well. And they just told me to see ball go ball. That was, at least for my rookie year is what they wanted me to do. So I came from college. I had all these responsibilities, all these playing to run and having my hand in the dirt to somebody just saying, we need to go sack the quarterback. I said, you got to be, you got to be kidding. That's it. And so, you know, number one, is take off. You got to be explosive as hell off the line of scrimmage. And, you know, being 64, 265, I like, I like those physics, you know, me coming off the edge against a guy that's

moving backwards trying to block me, right? The second thing is you got to be violent, man. I think that, I think cornerback is the hardest position on the field to play. But when you're talking about a pass rush, you have a different mentality to line up every single play. And your first five to seven steps, no matter how tired you or have to be explosive, violent, powerful and then keep doing it. Right. And so your mentality, that's why we're all crazy. If you look at a lot of the great outside, we all got problems.

We're all sick. You guys are all different. Jared Allen did a TED talk on Pass Rush. He went for like 30 minutes on the show. My damn, this guy still was like living it in his mind. Did you have any tells? Like, I know like the details of the game, right? The tackles, certain tackles you played against the film study.

Did you have like going into, because you obviously were just so explosive off the edge And you could beat tackles every weekend. But like, did you have tells that you studied? Yeah, it turned into my first year when people didn't know about me as much is I could just beat people offshore talent. And I remember talking to LaVar Arrington and a couple guys who rushed a passer. I remember having a conversation with Bruce Smith. And they all kind of told me they said, Sean, look, you're on the map now, right?

Pro Bowl, all pro defense rookie year. You're not coming in shock in anybody anymore. And so you need to learn how to start playing against offensive. coordinators, what they plan on doing against you. And he was absolutely right. So the whole entire offseason, when I started looking at, they bring up a bun set over there, start motioning, guys, you know, kind of lean in their stance, afraid of the speed,

turn into the speed to a bull rush. And then became chess the whole time. And what people are going to do? Are they going to slob attack, chip off the edge? And it became a war zone and what I had to do week to week. Because I wasn't, there was only about, I would say, four guys that I would say that I lined up against during the season when I said, I got to beat this guy and I got to

concentrate on him because he's that good. That's the Walter Joneses of the world. You know, like the Joe Thomas is or Willie Rove. And Willie was a little bit older that time. But I also had Marcus McNeil on my team, which from out of Auburn, which he was been a guaranteed Hall of Famer

if he didn't address back because the dude was just, he was just a B, 6A, 69, 350 and have feet like a tight end. So I had to see him every day in practice. So I wouldn't, at my bottom. the time my second year came, I wasn't as worried about the guy in front me. I was worried about, okay, and he's going to do that. Which runnyback are they going to leave in the chip me off the edge? Now I got to go attack the chip and then spin off of here. It was a game every single week.

So I understand why Jared Island got into it. Because it's such an art, man. It's, yeah, that it's such a craft that once you learn just the ability to pass rush, you talk about Vaughn, there's nobody in the history of football would have been. So it would have been a around the corner as nimble as Vaughn had. The coach one, they had with Gerr Thomas back in the day. That was the closest one who I can compare Vaughn Miller to. So everybody had their thing that they was really good at. Mine, if I knew I got you off the ball and you was scared of my speed,

I instantly turned to a bull rush because I can bull rush your ass back into the quarterback, too. So then it became, you know, just it became a game of chess. What was, what was, what did you hate worse getting chipped by a fucking tight end or running back or a receiver trying to come down and crack block you to get to me? It depends on whatever. See, Phil's Hines or one of those guys. I was worried about that.

Yeah, because they were coming to the break jaws. I mean, that's why they broke all that stuff up. But it was mainly the chip, because a lot of the runner back who were scared of going 101, that's why I start attacking a chipper.

They would let you go past a little bit, think they're going out to their route, and they'll come back and just knock you on your ass, right? Why after that dude, I started going right, whoever was chipping me, I was going right for him and deal with him first because you're not locked me on my ass. And then I'll freak everything else out after. You know what?

We give the kickers so much heat of being like the loneliest guy in sports when they miss a go-ahead field goal. And it is like everyone's looking at you. But second most lonely thing in football is probably being the dude that has to like chip Sean Merriman. It's like, oh, man. But running backs are you like, oh, we got to chip. Sean this week's shit, man. That's got to be like, put a tight end over there. Put a big tight end over there and do it.

And they started to do that, right? Flex out the titan, bring the tight end back down and chip all with the tight end. But then again, it just became so much, man. And I didn't watch a lot of, I watched film, but I didn't understand it, right? Down the distance, when I can go, when I can get more creative on my rushes, when it keep in taint. If I'm in the short side of the field, if I can go on it because I know they're not going to roll out in the short side of the field. So I started to pick up on those things that they just took my game to the next level.

All right. I got a fun one. Each week we do this Nitz a segment, muscle memory. Click it. Don't risk it. Paid for it by NHTSA. You got one pass rush. You know what? I'm unfortunately going to throw in Walter Jones. You got one pass rush. God, he's a big human. Third and six, one pass rush against Walter Jones. What is your muscle memory pass rush? What are you going with? Something that's just naturally. Yeah, speed to power the inside on, because his feet, first of all, one of the largest human beings you ever seen your life. I mean, he's massive,

but he had great feet. And so, you know, Walter was great as, quick setting you and then making you come under and do stuff with them. So I would just get them up to line of scrimmits, speed to power, get him on his back and then come under because after that, you don't have enough time to make a play anyway. If you don't get that quarterback in three seconds on him, you ain't getting enough, right? And so it was always speed to power to the inside move, but get him up to feel fast enough where I can now be on the same level as a quarterback. That was always a goal against guys like that.

I love your tweet about Walter Jones on that list. Like my shoulder says Walter Jones to be on all of your linemen lists for going. Dude, he grabbed me one time when I first got, when I first, everybody got different levels of strength, right? You hear about these old guys, like Willie Rolfe, even in his old years, if he grabs you, you were just done, right? The John Runyon's of the world. But like those guys, when they get you, just forget about it, right? Just go on to the next play, forget, like a quarterback. Forget that play it happened before.

Lod back up like that should never happen. Jerry, you know how big these dudes are? Like, these tackles. Listen, I told you. Their hands are like just. Sean, do you remember I came to like Glazer's Gym, Unbreakable, right? I've seen you up there, I think. And I remember seeing like Lane Johnson workout.

Yeah. And then like, guys, like you work at first of all, I shouldn't have been in the jail. I don't know why I was there. But I just remember looking like, my God, how do you, how does anyone get past this guy for a sack? But then I look at someone like you and I'm like, all right, he can do it. Well, okay, I'll tell you this. It was one time that somebody struck a little. little bit of fear of me, a little bit before pregame. One time when I saw Lenny Davis up close

my teammate. Dude, dude, let me tell you something. I'm out there. We all stretching. I'm getting hyped up the music playing. I'm like, yeah, we go f*** them up. And Leonard Davis came out, big black dude, ball head, big beard, just trotting like a big ass horse next to me. I looked at my coach. I said, like, what is that? And he was a guard. He was a guard first and then move to tackle. moved to tackle, right? So I now said, I've never seen anybody in my life. And then, you know, the pads, the pleas, they had two inches, he had another 30 pounds.

I'm like, this doesn't even look real. He doesn't even look a real person. And it was a game that I was about to break the sack record for the charges. Oh, I think I had 17 sacks. I needed 16 sacks. And I was trying to get another one. So they kept me away from Curt Dill. They kept me away as long as possible.

Double teamed me, grabbed me. And they told me, they said, I wouldn't sniff Kurt today because I wouldn't go break that record against them for the charges. And I got one sack, dude, but it was hell. I mean, that whole game, they would just grab it. Was that 07? What year was that, 06? 06. It was an 06, yeah.

Okay, so I was, so, oh, a game that was. Yeah, Leonard, I probably, I probably said 20 total words to Leonard in three years. He the guy didn't talk. He just was a mountain of a human being, dude. How was he in? I mean, when I looked at him, he looked like the scariest dude I've ever seen in my life. He was a great dude. He just was quiet.

He just was super quiet. Like, he played guard because I got drafted. He was at guard. And then they moved him to tackle for the last couple of years. He was awesome, dude. He was a great teammate. He just like, he just, but he had that like, you just, you were kind of afraid to talk to him, man. He was just like, I was afraid to talk to him.

I don't want to say. I don't want to say that. I thought shit there just about everybody except for him, I think, that day. I was only president I didn't say anything, too. Like a big Leonard Davis, man. Yeah, he was like 6-7, probably 3.50, 340. You know what's tough this time of year? Trying to keep any kind of routine when you're constantly on the move.

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Go to cachava.com. Use code throwbacks for 15% off your first order. That's Kachava, K-A-V-A-D-com, code throwbacks. I was talking to Jerry about this. I know this story's been told your rookie dinner, right? then you have to pay a fortune. Yeah. My rookie night, I'm not going to get into it because it's pretty interesting.

But what, what, give us a story about that night because I always love hearing why the hell these stupid vets do this to us when we're rookies. And that had to hurt a little bit, right? When you're writing that bill. Well, I'll tell you what really started it. So I held out my rookie year. So they were pissed. I had an injury clause, right?

So basically if I showed up to OTAs or minicam and I got hurt, the team didn't have to pay me. So they kind of. That's terrible. They wanted to do something like a handshake and we'll take care of you type of thing. Like, no, if it's done in paper, like it doesn't count. Good for you. That, yeah, handshake. I didn't show up to two weeks before the first game.

Mind you, none of them seen me. So Philip and everybody's talking in the papers, he should be here. He's a rookie. He's our first round guy. We need them here. And I'm like, dude, like, who comments on other guy's money? And like, yeah, I want to be there. I'm calling my agent every day.

Is it done yet? Are they doing it? And I wanted to be there. So I think the built up of animosity of me not being there. And then also the rookie dinner coming. I didn't come in like as a regular guy. I came in with jewelry and talking. I'm going to F everybody up.

And I mean, I was all of it. Right. And so I didn't. It was like, okay, we got a chance to get him back. Right. And that was an opportunity to give me. We go to this place, pompomooze grill in Delmar.

And mind you, I don't, you know, dude, I've never, I mean, I bought a house. I bought a car at this point. But items, I've never spent this amount of money before my life. Especially in a meal. Yeah. So I'm sitting there. I'm not thinking nothing of it, everybody. If you're four years in, then you're, you know, you can come to this dinner.

Everybody's there having a good time. And, you know, Antonio Gage and Drew Brees is drinking and having a good time. We've ordered out a couple bottles of blue to 13. So a couple hours go by, and I'm having a good time. I'm for the first time feeling accepted. Like, okay, everybody, we cool now. You know, I'm damn. They got in a couple of fights.

You know, my first week there was like, oh, okay. We're good now. Man, that bill came. And I just, I couldn't really, I couldn't fathom the zeros. Like how many, I just couldn't have been to me. The receipt was so long due to drop to my ankles. And, you know, I thought it. In fact, because I was drinking, so I didn't know.

I looked down in the bottom. I thought it said 3200 or something. I was like, oh, this is great. Yeah, that's not bad. Oh, no, I can definitely do this. He was like, no. So I started counting over. I was like, 32,000.

That's so dumb. Man. And by the car. Three cars of it is just liquor. I mean, I couldn't even explain the sickness I had that day, like that moment. But I'll tell you this, though. LT did stand up on a cheese. and it was talking to the team after the dinner

and telling everybody how much they're going to need me to perform and they're glad to have me. It's softened to blow. I'll say it's softened to blow. But I didn't talk to everybody fully until about the next week. That whole week went by dude. I was like, damn, you guys. That's rough, man.

So who took you all just a bunch of guys took you on, not like the delinement or anything? Well, it was a team. No, it wasn't positional base. It was like, if you're four years or up, you had a lot of children. Oh, so that's why. They brought the whole team for you.

Dude, I just had a running back dinner. I had like Edge. I had like four guys and that was it. I was like, I was, now we had a full night. It was pretty fun, but I don't get into that shit. Go ahead, Joe. Go ahead. Hey, Joe, we need to get into that.

Whatever that is. I've heard a little details of it, but off the air. Yeah, well, I'm working them to get that out. Maybe, you know. Yeah, the night didn't stop there. We had a good time. Well, we had a. So, you know, we've, we've talked like with Barry Sanders.

on this show and Matt's talked a lot about like Edger and James and we've even talked about like Marshall Falk but like the guy I always come back to the guy who single handedly changed like fantasy football for nerds like me LT man like I just like obviously you mentioned that name and everybody goes oh yeah not that we need to like he doesn't need us to be talking about him all the time but that's one running back that I look at and the way I see football now it's like everyone's kind of doing their they want their LT impersonator right the guy who could do all of what he did and still get the bulk of the carries. What was it like playing with that guy?

It must have been unbelievable. For me, so when I got drafted, I was 20 years old. And I think I was the youngest drafted ever at that time. I just turned 21 as I walked in the locker room. So, you know, I'm walking to the locker room when Antonio Gates and Phillip Rivers and low-neal, you know, all these vests has been around for a long time. But it was something about LT. So you ever hear, like, how people say that Michael Jordan got like this glow behind

Yeah, like an aura. Like this or. LT got that. LT has that about him, right? And so walking into the locker room and seeing him, you know, he had his diamond hoop rings in. You know, he's just had his look clean. I was like, man, this is LT. You know, I didn't act like that.

But in my head, I'm like, God damn, this is LT, you know. And watching him work in practice, this dude, like worked like he was trying to make the team. Like, he finished every play, ran 30 yards down the field. just always led by example and really said a whole lot. But when he did, you can hear pin drop. Right. So if LT says something, everybody else is quiet. That's what's bad.

And so you would see him do stuff in practice, you know, catch a ball out of the backfield, one-handed, jump in the air, jump cut, go right off his right foot. And when I seen it for the first time, I'm like, I'm looking at everybody, do you just see this? And everybody's like, dude, this is just an average Wednesday. right like he just did this all the time so good man so he was um and in fact when he broke the russian record in 2006 um we were playing the Denver and i got us right at the end of the game I think it might have been a minute something left or two minutes left in the game and that would have been it but I got a sack force fumble against j cutler and let me tell you how special l t is right I got the ball back it didn't hit me just yet that they were about to give l t

the ball i picked the ball up after I recovered it and I'm walking back over to the sideline and I hear them chanting LT. LT. LT. And I was like, oh, she, he's by the record. And I'm going to be a part of this damn thing, right? It's super cool. How does a whole crowd chant LT? Everybody know he's getting, he's getting the ball and he goes out and scores the very next play. It was just something about LB. I think I remember that. He was so different. And I put him, you know, in my top three, right? I got, I think you can, in my opinion, you can put Walter Payton, LT, right, neck and neck, two B, two A and two B.

Barry Sanders being one. Now, I know people come back and say, you know, you can throw Bo Jackson and, you can throw some other guys up there, but for me and all his capabilities and catching a ball and blocking and running you over if he needs to, being slick and agile and being able to be nimble,

LT is, to me, is the second best runnerback of all time, in my opinion. The two things with LT that always made you just know, all right, he commands respect. First of all, no one has ever once said, wow, LT. I mean, I know his name is Lidane and Thomason, but should he have that nickname? Because there's Lawrence Taylor.

No one, like, there'll be someone coming in with the initials, MJ and basketball and be like, oh, look at MJ. It's like, you can't call him MJ. We call LT, LT, no one ever is like, wait a minute. No, there's two. There's one on defense and there's one on offense, and they're both legends. That and the fact that he helped drag the Jets to the AFC championship game,

who puts him in legend. That's my cheap shot at the Jet Fans out there. He did, man. And he did that late in his career. Yeah, very late, very late. You know, and, but we had a run in San Diego. And we talked early about like rings, right, and how important rings were. And I get so much shit sometime for saying this.

I feel like we were the best team of that era of a decade. We just didn't get a ring. I think one year we had like 11 or 12 pro bowlers on one team. But it's unheard of our kicker and our punt, everybody. All major positions went to the Pro Bowl, special teams guys, Pro Bowl. And we were so loaded, but we just never got that one ring in that five-year span that would have probably solidified us as probably the best team of that era. Yeah.

But also, too, you also, I mean, and I agree, you also, it's kind of the same thing now with the AFC. Like all these, like Josh Allen has just can't get over the hump with Patrick Mahomes, right? Like, it's just the chiefs. You were in that same era of Brady. and Peyton, right, like in the Colts. It was just like almost a Big Ben. Don't forget Big Ben. Big Ben was fucking great. I mean,

talking about underrated in those teams. So you're almost just a victim of, and you guys were right there. You just couldn't get over the hump. I want to go back to college, dude. I know obviously you were great at Maryland. You had a bunch of offers. I asked Arian Foster this, my former

teammate at Houston, like, goes to Tennessee. I just want to know, like, what did Kevin Plank pay you at Under Armour to get you to go to Maryland. Look, KP didn't have money yet. I can't even keep a straight phase asking you that. KP didn't have any money yet. I'm sure I'll have a couple bucks.

That's true. Actually, that's a good call. So what was the recruiting process like? I mean, you stayed home, but were you close going anywhere else? Yeah, so in the metropolitan area, I was number one player coming out in high school. And any of the top players that was before me always went to Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, State, Florida, South Texas. And I grew up like less than 30 minutes from the school in a bad area. So, you know, I kind of built this name in, in, you know, Prince Georgia County area.

So like Kevin Durant came from, we'd save areas. Michael Beasley because I played basketball first also through the same AAU team. And I wanted to be the first one to stay home. You know, I just wanted to be the first guy to stay home because it just meant like, why would I, you know, I made a home base here. You know, my coaches and people knew my background, where I grew up, how I grew up. And I was like, man, you know what, I'm going to stay home. So I had offers from Miami. Now, when you say somebody else who I possibly could have went to, it would have been Miami.

Did you? If I didn't go anywhere else, it would have been Miami. And I was scared to take a visit down there because I wouldn't have came back. That was that was their peak. That was your peak. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You would have never left, dude.

Antreel, Frank Gore. I mean, DJ Williams, I think, I mean, it was just loaded with everybody. And I was like, you know what? Let me just stay home, not take any visit. And then I just got inducted to the University of Maryland Hall of Fame a couple weeks ago. I know. Congrats, man. Yeah.

Appreciate it, man. And so it made it all worth it for me. And then right after me, who stayed home? Vernon Davis. Yeah, that's right. Vernon Davis stayed home. Right after that, I think it was like Tori Smith and Stefan Diggs. And so before me, the University of Maryland wasn't getting number one guys or top guys coming out of area.

And so it actually had an effect by me being able to do that. Sean, because we want to ask you, before we let you go, a couple of just fight stuff, because I'm just curious about that place. You mentioned Michael Beasley, bro. Did you watch? I hated that. Did you watch any of the, I don't even know what it was going on? We know, you know, I think or two about fighting.

I didn't like seeing the Beasley-Stevenson thing, man. I didn't like that. I didn't like that. I didn't like it. I just think, you know, when you're going into a different field, you put yourself at a vulnerable position, right? Because people are so used to seeing you dominant in another. the arena. Yeah. But I didn't, I just look at that stuff as entertainment now, man. Right.

Like, I don't really take it serious. I actually enjoyed them fighting, but, you know, me being in the fight business and being around the fight business for so long, I'm looking like, what if I had a 21-year-old Michael Beasley, right, that learned how to, who's going to stop that? It's true. I mean, seriously, and I've always been an advocate of this, I think that every former athlete in general, not just football player, athlete, should pick up some former combat sports when they're done because we all struggle at some point in time trying to figure out the next thing. And a lot of it has to do with one, being in the locker room, you're not around your guys anymore. The other thing is competition. You know, we don't have

anything to compete on anymore. I mean, you know, Matt, you might be to go out and play flag football, but I can't hit nobody, right? I mean, you just, you know, so that competition has gone, the regiment's gone. So I like to see guys still staying active. I think it helps with, you know, depression, anxiety, trying to figure things out of your next phase of your life. And me, I started training back in 2006 with, between 2005-2006 with Randy Gator. Jay Gladeser actually introduced me to a lot of those guys. I grew up boxing. A couple of my uncles were professional boxers.

And so I'm hitting the mitts one day. And Jake Glaze was when he had his gym, I think right before he opened Unbreakable, he had his own gym. And I'm hitting mitts in there. And he said, man, you can fight. And I said, yeah, you know, my uncles, I fought a little bit growing up and trained with them. Hey, I think you should try M&A because of the help you out in football. So I said, hell, man, if it'll help me out in football, let me know. Sign me up, right?

He said, you texted me an address. The next day I met him in the gym right off Libreya. I walk in a gym, Jay Glazes on my left and Randy Gator's on my right. Listen, I'm looking. And Randy just won the belt. He was like, I think at the time, the oldest champion that UFC ever had. And I looked at Jay, and I said, I don't know the hell you got going on here, but I'm not fighting, Randy.

That's just, that's. that's not going to happen. And then he explained to me what we're going to be doing, pumbling and grappling and working on hands and different stuff. And then it helped me out of lot in football. I actually want to ask you this, because you've had so much success post

football, and you kind of answer the question, but you know, you and I both know a lot of dudes who just, you know, they have that identity issue, right, when football ends, because it's all you know, it's routine. It's like, who am I now? At what point during your career were you sort of thinking

about the next step? Because you've been, very successful. Was there a point in your career when you were already kind of thinking of plan B? Yeah. Well, I've always kind of had the attitude of just been an entrepreneur general. I mean, I was selling lights out t-shirts in college when I got my Pail Grant money, right? When I got, you know, a couple of, we didn't make the money y'all made, you know, back there, so I had to get it the other way. But, you know, it was, so when I got that, I just, I started making lights out T-shirts and selling them to my teammates. You know, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew I wanted to do something. I think that when I had

my first big injury, I really said, man, this shit can be over. I never thought like, because we all walk around like with Superman and we, you know, we're going to have this long career. We never get hurt. We're going to make a ton of money. Everything's going to be great. So that was my like first dose of reality like, man, it should be over. And never been, I've never missed any significant amount of time.

I never had any problems like that. So me sitting out that year, it gave me more time to kind of hone in on on stuff that I wanted to do. You know, kind of fast forward. I think that a lot of guys struggle because they can't let go to the game emotionally. My first two years, I was sitting around on the couch still, even after all the stuff I had going on. I was on NFL network and I was selling clothes and Tilly's and Pax and I had a lot of stuff

going on. I was watching games, but I could do that shit for $10 million, right? Like, you know, I can get up right now. I can do that. I think, first of all, we need to let it go emotionally and whatever attitude we have because, dude, you know, there's a lot of great athlete. You probably play with some of the most freakest athletes ever, and they just couldn't get it together. You like, dude, why the hell is this deal?

He's fast, he's big, he's strong, as athletic. Why can't he go out and produce him a field? And you see the ones with less talent, but the mentality to go out and get things done. So it really comes down to the mentality and our mindset and how we do it. And I really believe, and I always say this, which is why I like working with a lot of athletes and some of my businesses and companies I got now, we're different. Like, once we put our mind or something, we're the most disciplined people walk in. the planet earth. We don't mind people getting on our ass because that's the only thing we know how to do. We don't tuck our tails in bad days. We deal with adversity, adversity injuries,

you know, getting bent or traded or cut away and still finding a way to get through it. And so we've been through the ringer. Those are all great things that you need to start a business and be successful. And so once you're able to take a little bit of that and put that somewhere else, man, you're going to be, you're going to be golden. You just have to find what that thing is. And I think that's where most guys struggle at, like, finding, okay, with, What if I took all this I got? Everything I got mentally and my strength and what I'm really great at doing, what if I put that here and something I'm really passionate about,

something I feel the same running out to a crowd of 70,000 people. Once you get that, that's what the Michael, the Jordans, the Irvin Johnson's, a lot of, and this, by the way, it's a bunch of other athletes that they don't get to know the ride and it's doing extremely well out here in business. But that mentality allows you to take all that shit, man, and put it somewhere. else. Once you do that, man, you can conquer a lot of things. So that, that's what it was for me. I just found out what that thing was for me. And I applaud it a lot early on than most guys are able to do. I love that, man. I hope a lot of people hear that because it's so important. Because as you know,

man, the game could be taken from you like this. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You have a son, Justin, I believe, 29 stud QB. Did he, I know he's getting recruited everywhere. Did he commit to Maryland? Did that happen? No, no. He has 10 offers, but he haven't committed. What has put your dad hat on because I kind of just lived this and I thought it was the coolest thing. What has this process been like for you as a dad? Dude, so I'll tell you a crazy story.

I don't think I've told us to anybody. So University of Maryland was the first school to offer them. He went to a camp down there and kind of just tore it up. They took him to another field. They kind of had them working out. And he was just on the money. Just on a, even I've said back like, dude, he's on five right now. And I've seen 12,000 times.

But he's just laying the ball right in the money everywhere and just really locked in. And as we're walking off the field, so it was Coach Locksley. So Coach Locksley, by the way, was a runnybacks coach when I was at the University of Maryland. He's a head coach. We're walking off the field, walking up to the office with me, my son, Justin, and his mom, walking into the office. We're sitting on the couch. And Loxley's in the corner, me and his mom and Justin sit on the couch.

And he went through the process, told him how much he, you know, how much he thought he thought, how great he was. And then he said, he want to offer him to a scholarship to University of Maryland. Dude, I was, I was fighting one. I was fighting. Dude, I got goosebumps now, dude. I was, you know, because at 16 years old is when they offered me by the same coach, right? So it was kind of this deja food thing where I'm kind of, I'm kind of turning my head a little. bit to the side because I'm, you know, one of them, it's about the drop. I know it's coming.

The bottom lips off quivering and a little grab of it. If you don't, if you even think about it, but it was, it was such a cool moment, man, because, you know, that's what we live for, right? Like, that's why we do what we're doing. And he's going to go out and do the work and all that stuff. But to be hearing those same words come out of the same person's mouth who offer me as a 16 year old kid, dude, it was, it was one of the greatest days ever of my life. And then soon as we, the next week, he got to offer about nine more schools, but I think Loxie and Maryland wanted to be the first. But yeah, it's great. It's great, man.

It's going through the process. And then, you know, nowadays with social media, these NILs and everybody caring about, you know, with their posts on social media, who's got what? He's just such a good kid where he's locked in. He doesn't care about that. You know, I try to get a moment again doing more stuff. You're like, I just want to go play football. And I'm like, okay, you do that. I love it.

And let me, you know, handle this stuff over here, man. But he's at St. Francis now at Baltimore. And these guys, I mean, I don't know who's going to help. Who's going to play them this year? Look, they look ridiculous. But it's been a fun process all the way through. So great, dude. Oh, man, I literally almost got to your eye.

I think about it. I went through the whole thing. It was such a unique as a former player, just seeing your son go through the same stuff we went through. And then when you hear that and you get that first offer, like you're just so proud, man. I can't wait to follow him in the next couple of years. Was he always wanting to be a QB or do you ever go to that?

Come on, man, let's do some pass rushing stuff. Most kids want to be a QB. I couldn't get him to tackle a soul. Like, yeah, no matter how much shit I gave over the years. And I just found out, you know, he's working with Tony Raz in Jersey for a long time. Tony's a hell of a coach. He's training a lot of college and pro guys. He's going down to see Pax's Mahomes coach.

You're going to fly down to Texas probably in a few weeks to work with him for a weekend. But yeah, it's just he was born a quarterback, dude. I don't know what I did for God to try to make me have a quarterback at all positions. But he loves it, man. He just, you know, he's just born for it. It's just what he wants to do. Listen, man, this NIC can relate, right? This NIL world, man, he's going to be doing just fine in college, man.

You just protect him, protect him from all those other people like, you know. Like, that's what I'm trying to do. But he's going to be just fine, man. That's awesome, dude. Yeah, I'm looking to retire here soon, man. So I told me, keep on up. Just like my mom did me. Keep on up, buddy.

We're out of here soon. Well, dude, we're going to let you go, man. We appreciate you, dude. You're just crushing life, man. A great message on life beyond football. And I'll be room for your kid, man. It's going to be awesome to see you. Yeah, I got to get, we got to link our kids up one of these days.

We'll connect for sure. I'll connect with you offline. But we appreciate you coming on, man. We just had an athletic specimen. You could be considered an athlete. specimen in some ways. I'm an elite athlete, dude. You got a cannon of an arm, you fucking big dude.

I'm an elite athlete. That's all I'm going to say. I was never fast, but I'm an elite athlete. We can move on. We are going to do our Mount Rushmore of athletic specimens. Would you like me to go first? Mount Rushmore, this is going to be awesome because we've had, yeah, I would love for you to give me your top four guys, buddy.

Who's on that mountain? You know, I try to always take the obvious ones away, but you just can't because this is the most specimen of a specimen and that's Wembe of course I'm sure he's gonna be on yours no big surprise I try to leave him off because it's like he's on

there's no way Shaq my number two coming out of LISU there's just no if ands but's about it I had a tough tough one with my number three but I went off the major sports

I went Mike Tyson bro I went Mike Tyson Mike Tyson dude I understand he's short No, I mean. You actually look at his build, like, and the way he would move when he was, when he was like in his prime. And his prime, yeah, those first few years he was.

And ready for my last one? This is going to be one I think you got. I got Michael Phelps joining. That's yours? You had him? Yeah. I'll take him off, though, because we're different. Oh, yeah. Phelps is, you could argue Phelps is the greatest crazy specimen athlete of all times.

It's like a 611 wingspan as a swimmer, right? That's crazy. Yeah, dude. The guy's a fucking animal, dude. Yeah, you didn't have them on yours or you did? I did, but I'm going to take them off. It's okay, because I had honorable mentions. Okay, let's go.

So, Wembe's on there. I put LeBron on there. Okay, yeah, sure. I mean, big, nasty, fast. We've never seen a player like LeBron at 6-8, 260, point guard, blah, blah, since high school and still playing at 42, still dunking on people. So like the long jet. He's just a freak of nature.

Yep. I did have Phelps. So I'm going to sub Phelps with Usain Bolt. Good one. Same Bolt. Fastest man ever to run. No one I don't think will ever touch his records. Doing it at 6'5 and just with ease, like just watching him.

Like I don't usually like watching sprinters, but like watching him is like, it's a must see. It's pretty fucking cool. It's like watching Phelps swim. And then my last one, I had Phelps too. I'm going to put Megatron, Calvin Johnson. 6-6-2-30, ran a 4-3, I think at the combine. At 6-6, like Hussein Bolt, I've seen him in person. I've played against him in person.

There's just, Rani Moss is probably the closest thing. But at 6-6 and the way he ran and jumped and all that and a career cut short as well, like I don't know if we'll ever get another Calvin Johnson. That's how special he was. I wanted to put Calvin Johnson on there. almost put Aaron Donald on there, too, just because of, like... I had Adrian Peterson is one that, again, just a freak running back, like, of what he was able to do at his size. And I always said this, like, there's probably high school, the NFL and football is nearly impossible.

There's a couple people I saw. I thought, I saw DJ Williams, the great linebacker for Miami, played for the Broncos for a long time. I saw him play in high school. We played against him. He was, like, one of those guys who physically could play in the NFL. You knew it right there. AP was the same way. You could literally, AP could have went from high school to the NFL and probably been fine.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, there's a Bo Jackson. There's a lot of guys. What would you have said, would you have like eye rolled me if I threw Aaron Judge up there? I get like the Yankee part and Yankee homerism, but like he's a freak, dude. He's a freak. And he can run and play the field, even though. I would say outside.

of, I mean, you probably should have put Otani on there. Otani's a freak of nature. I have them as my honorable too, but that's the thing. I couldn't pick between Otani and Judge, so I just left them both off. I mean, I think that's easy because Otani is an elite pitcher, too. I mean, just what he's doing both sides of the ball is ridiculous. But Judge, there's not a guy that's six, seven that can run, throw, like the five-to-a-tool player that judge is. I mean, we've never seen that in the history of major leagues.

Otani's the closest. Otani, I would put a step above just because he, Duke could win the Cy Young if he wanted to. Do you know who I almost put as like a joke? Jose Altuve. No, no, but sticking with that, Spud Webb.

J.J. Berea. Spud Webb. You know I'm going with this, right? Two of your twins? Yes, I do. By the way, El Tuve is my Halloween costume every year. Spud Webb. I dare you to tell me he's not

an athletic specimen. Dude, it's five foot six. Fucking does. I mean, then we might as well throw fucking Mugsy Bow. in there? But Mugsy wasn't dunking. I don't have any dunk videos of Mugsy Bokes. I'm sure Mugsy Bows could dunk.

You think so? Do he's 5.3? No, he's like you're high. He's like 5'6. No, Mugsy Bog's is 5'3. Could you ever... You would throw me the ball in the post against Mugsy Bokes. How close were you in your prime?

You were a lot heavier, though, in your prime. No, you're about 18 years old? Touching the rim. Could you ever touch the rim? No, I was like maybe two, three inches short. Like, I want to talk. myself until like I nipped it one time but it might have been like a nine foot

eight rim. Might have been nine foot eight. No, I used to have dreams as an 18 year old of dunking. It must be fun, bro. Must be fun. Hey what? Did you ever catch a body, Matt?

Did you ever catch a body or no? No. But I used to go to the layup line. I used to dunk pretty easily. I had a few dunk games in like in like a reclily game when I was like 20. What's your, do you know your wingspan or no?

No, but I did have a 36 inch vertical at the pro day. that must have lit up some charts right there. Not a new quarterbacks back then had. But I had your typical white guy hops. I had like a... Two feet jumper. No, well...

Well, that's a vertical anyway. I was a two-foot jumper. Yeah. But I was like the slow, lazy hop, right? Like, it took me a while to get up. It wasn't explosive, is what I'm saying. You jump off the screen. But I could get up there when I got up there.

So it was always like a good two-handed dunk. Catch lobs or no? I could catch a lob. for sure. But like in game, no one was throwing you a lob. Yeah, I got a couple back in the day.

But like it wasn't like pretty pretty, but I could get up and do it. Yeah, like 36, bro. I was dunking easily. I'll show you a video. I feel like you've sent me a video. But yeah, post or send me or post like one of your favorite

liner dunk video. Cole could dunk, right? Yeah, Cole could dunk. He's a little more explosive off the jump, I got to say. I mean, even though I've never seen you in your prime jump and play basketball,

I've played McCall. He's got pretty, he got pretty quick jump. He's definitely more explosive, that's for sure. But that's a good list, man. A lot of crazy guys out there. I mean, but Wemby is, Wembe is, Shaq's a good one too.

Fuck, I forgot about Shep. I just wonder, and we could wrap with this, I just wonder now, because similarly what, like, I guess you can't. Like, Steph Curry changed basketball to three-point shot, right? And then all big guys started shooting threes.

And now Yolkich kind of changed it with, like, a point-five being like, you still can't really emulate what Wembe's doing. It's like, it's like a, Steph is a one of one. He's a greatest shooter of all time. But like, but you could be six three and do that. But that's a skill. Like, he's learned a skill.

Like, you can't teach Wemby being seven, six and moving like a guard. I think we can't teach LeBron. I think we get a lot of fake Wembe's, like seven, four dudes who just don't have the athletic. Like you can't, like, there's just people that are just the rarest, rarest of rare. And that you may never see again. I judge. I mean, judge, dude, six, seven guy probably could be a tight end. Although, I don't know. Baseball player. They don't want no far to that football, but they like their days off. All right. That's the show for today. We will be back next week. I'm going to try to get a former Nick on the show next week to get us even more hyped.

Come on. Let's go. Let's go. We got to get it. We got to get a Nick's player. And pray for me. I might be doing this show from New York because I might be going to the final scheme. You should do this show from court side. bro, just do it live. Let's just do it. I couldn't handle it. I'd be hospitalized. By the way, Timothy Shalamee,

we've talked about him so many times on the show. He's like our goat. We've got to get him on. What a gee, dude. Just what a man of the people. This dude just loves his, I think he loves his Knicks more than you love his Knicks. Clearly, he's there.

He's at the games. He's crying. He's taking pictures with Jalen Brunson, like, that made his day. You know what I love that he said in an interview? Not that he said the one thing of his career, like he doesn't take anything for granted, but the thing for sure.

and I've always said this about my career. The thing I don't, and he said this as well, we don't take for granted is the fact that we've been able to go to these court side games. He's just lucky that, not lucky, it's just timed out, he is in the height of his powers while the Knicks are in the height of their powers. I was in the height of my powers,

and it was, you know, I was like, it's, he's in the height. Robinson, Dee Lee, Channing Fry, no disrespect. Love those got good players, but, like, you know. We get Channing Fry on. I love Channing Frye. He gave me one of the court side games I was at when he was young. He hit like a go-ahead three back with Biggs didn't really shoot threes like that.

And he came back down the court and I stuck my hand out for like a kind of a high five. But he like, he wound up Matt and slapped my hand so fucking hard, bro. I was, you could see me visibly court-side the game. He, he almost took my hand off. And I will never, ever do that again with that large of an individual. Channing Frye, come on the show. great Nick once a Nick always a Nick Maddie

Let's go buddy I'm gonna send you Some gear bro I need gear I don't have any If I send you a finals hat Would you wear it? Fuck yeah Like out of your house

No I'll wear it during the game though All right no doubt No doubt no doubt All right Later boy