Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - The Best of Kobe Bryant on Throwbacks

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

For Throwbacks there is only one way to celebrate Mamba Day: by throwing back to the greatest Kobe stories ever told on the show. Whether it’s from players who had to guard him or hidden behind the scenes moments where Kobe let his guard down and was just a bro, we have heard every type of Kobe story imaginable on Throwbacks. Jerry remembers the time Kobe bet the Entourage cast on halfcourt shots and paid his debt in the most epic way possible. Or for Matt, there was the time they were just two retired dads chilling in LA. Plus stories from Bonzi Wells, Michael Redd, Micah Nori, Raymond Felton and more on the man, the myth, the legend, The Black Mamba, Kobe Bryant.   A big thank you to our sponsors:  BetMGM: Make It Legendary. Please gamble responsibly. Download the BetMGM App to get started.    NHTSA: Drunk driving changes your world. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA www.pledgetodrivesober.com    Uncrustables: Uncrustables sandwiches are ready from your fridge!    New episodes of Throwbacks drop every Thursday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also, make sure you’re locked in on social @ThrowbacksShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys & the Throwbacks community. (http://throwbacksshow.com/)          00:00 Show open  02:21 Matt got to know Kobe  04:01 Kobe’s Entourage cameo that never happened  06:40 Matt’s Kobe the Dad story   09:20 Kobe shot halfcourt shots with the Entourage cast for money  12:55 Michael Redd on what made Kobe great  14:36 Micah Nori on coaching against Kobe’s 81 point game   22:45 Matt remembers where he was when Kobe scored 81  25:25 Bonzi Wells on playing against Kobe  30:25 Raymond Felton on Kobe in the GOAT conversation  32:43 NHTSA Game Changing Decisions  38:13 Kobe and Shaq are the Greatest Lakers duo ever  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We put probably 18 people on this golf cart, dude. Standing in the back on the side. Just sinking, though. The car's probably sinking low. I got, like, coal on my lap. My boy is right next to me. Standing next to me, kind of kneeling down. He's like, he's like, bro, I can't believe Kobe Bryant's right next to us. I can't believe Kobe Bryant's right next to us.

He's driving us around. And Kobe is just like weaving and going and just flooring it over the, over the little speed bumps that are in the community. Kids laugh. And he's just Kobe the dad. Yeah, it was a special. Special memory that I always remember. All right, welcome into another episode of Throwbacks.

Do us a solid go over to all the socials at Throwback Show. Give us a subscribe on YouTube. As we continue our best of compilation as we get ready for season three in the NFL season, this is a special one because we've talked about Kobe Bryant on this show a whole lot. It's no big secret, Matt. That's your favorite player. I can still see the, we changed your shot around a little bit, but we still see the Kobe jersey.

back there and the momentality favorite athlete of all time man the only jersey other than your own that you'll actually wear in public as we saw because you're not a jersey guy we know that um but yeah he's someone who keeps coming up on this show whether you and i share some of our stories or a lot of basketball and even football players we've had on somehow Kobe Bryant is probably the number one athlete that comes up in casual conversation yeah i mean and for me you know obviously being at USC and Kobe being drafted and coming to Lakers in 96, I believe it was. You know, I was 13 years old. I'm a diehard Laker fan. And so I got a chance to watch Kobe his entire career in a Lakers uniform. And the impact, and he lived down in Orange County where I grew up, right, was down in Newport Beach.

And the impact that he had on, obviously not just someone like me who's trying to become an athlete, trying to make it to the NFL, all of these things, but like in the world. I mean, he's, he's international, right? Kobe's impact and legacy is international. So to, and also for me, and I've told these stories, but like to get to know him, you know, on a personal level, I actually have a great picture. I think I was right after USC, so I'm in the league.

And I got pretty good tickets. I don't know if they're court side, but they're right there. But I'm able to walk on the court. And my buddy Daniel, who's a lifelong, like, he is more of a Kobe fan than me. That's how big of a fan he was. There's this great photo that Daniel's, that Daniel's dad actually took of us. And it's me and me, Kobe and Daniel on the court pregame.

And Kobe's just talking to us. And Daniels look kind of like how you were, as we talked about with Justin Thomas and how excited you were. You were nervous of the best pictures. Yeah, it was one of the best pictures of all time, man. But rest of peace, man, Kobe, who's just, yeah, I mean, he's still huge impact in my life from an athlete and the mentality. And, you know, just the aura about it, man.

there's just this aura about him that he was untouchable, you know. But man, what a, it's tough, man. You know, I think, and still, too, even like on social media, there's, there's, and Kobe, someone who's been in the public eye since he was 18 years old, maybe even before that. And there's still stories that come up, you see from someone telling that you've never heard. It's the Lakers trainer, the famous trainer, Gary Beattie. Yeah. I think recently I saw something on Instagram where, when Kobe blew out his Achilles and then he had to go to the

free throw line to make his free throws. He offered Kobe a chair. He's like, hey, do you want, we can like get a wheelchair kind of over there. And according to him, Kobe said Paul Pier, or like, the truth. Paul Pierce is because Paul Pierce famously goes in that wheelchair. And he, he walked out and he hit both free throws and walked off. You know, I've told, and it's going to be in this compilation episode with the entourage guys, you know, because we shot court side at the Laker game so often.

and we had some really great interactions with Kobe over the years. I'll save those for what you're about to see. But one story I don't think we've told in there, one of the more famous cameos on Entourage Ever was 50 Cent, right? It led to that meme of him laughing and driving away in the Rolls Royce. But that initially, I could still close my eyes to this day and see the script. That cameo, hey, you look good in your daddy's car, which is 50s line. It was written in this original script was Kobe Bryant.

And we were shooting, I think, in April, which is getting close to playoff time. And I, you know, we were getting a lot of cameos at that point. And when someone couldn't do it, though, would usually be this drawn out. Well, maybe we'll try. It was a hard and fast. No. Damn. No.

During the season? No. Wasn't even like, well, maybe. Just no. Not happening. Not even asking. That would have been so sick, dude. That would have been so sick.

And, you know, obviously it's so sad what happened. And the family element is on a whole other level that we don't even necessarily have a right to talk about. But on a public figure level, I think what made it totally fascinating was we really haven't seen players of his caliber take the competition off and then start to like give back and give to other players

and be a public ambassador, whether it was women's basketball, because of his daughter or men's basketball. Like Michael Jordan, I think, does it, but does it privately. He never publicly does it. Kobe was just starting to take that competition off and be like a great hang for because all we saw, we saw him for 18 years or 20 years. Kill people.

And never let anybody in, probably let some guys in, like in the offseason workouts, right? Guys who wanted to like, you know, learn from him and stuff. But then all of a sudden you see him and you see him. you see him court side laughing and dapping he just he was he was so at peace with where he was and then and then you could tell like the next initiative was women's basketball and and paint it forward there and whatever else he was going to do right and that's that's the part that's just this it's so it's just it's devastating because there was so much more for him to give I think to the sport of basketball and really life just like to me it to me it's not sports to

me it's his whole mantra, the Mamamba mentality, the way you attack everyday life and being the best you can possibly be. But yeah, man, that's a sad part. I do want to tell this one story, though, because it, for me, it put him, it took away sort of that cape that you're talking about, and it painted them in just as a, as a Kobe the dad and Kobe, like, kind of the goofball. So, long story short, this is an offseason. I don't remember what year was, but he, but I, we're down in Newport Beach and we had a mutual friend. And we're down in, um, Emerald Bay, which is like a private gated community, private beach area. And it was like just a barbecue type of thing. A lot of kids were there. Cole was like, God, I don't even remember.

Maybe nine or 10. That's how long ago this. Maybe eight. I don't know. And so we're like, my friend's like, yeah, Kobe's going to be there with the kids. And I hit up my best friend who's a lifelong Kobe said, we're going down, whatever. So we go to this barbecue. We're hanging out. And this is just Kobe like, she's just telling stories, talking about guy. I'm like, this amazing. best part about this story is we have one golf cart. We have like a like a honestly I think it might have been a six-seater. I think it was an eight-seat golf cart. And you know, you're in a little community, right? You're going probably 300 yards through the little community. He's driving.

I'm in the front seat. So I'm sitting. You're riding shotgun? I'm riding shotgun. We put probably 18 people on this golf cart, dude. And it's kids. It's, it's standing in the back. Just sinking, though. The car's probably sinking low. I got like coal on my lap. My boy is right next to me. Standing next to me, kind of kneeling down. He's like, he's like, bro, I can't believe Kobe Bryant's right next to us.

I can't believe Kobe Bryant's next to us. He's driving us around. And Kobe is just like, just like weave in and going and just flooring it over the, over the little speed bumps that are in the community. We're all dying laughing, dude. It was like, I'll never forget the moment, dude. It was just like I've seen him in his human side a couple times, but that was the one well, never forget, man.

Just like kids laughing. He's just Kobe the dad, right? He was just the dad there that the, yeah, it was a, it was a special, special memory that I always remember. So I'm not sure if I told that before. I think I have on the show. I don't know if you, well, not in deep, not in great detail because I remember. I'm telling you 15 people on this thing. And people were doubled up on laps at the whole around everyone was standing up.

Because we were just, Kobe was like, fuck it. Let's just go. Let's just go. We'll get there, right? We only have one golf cart. That's great. Oh, man. Well, it is no secret again why we've talked to probably 100 athletes now at this point on this show

and most of them somehow find a way to bring up Kobe Bryant. So we present the best of the compilation, throwback style with Kobe Bryant. We told the Kobe story. Do you remember the Kobe story? Did I ever tell it to you? Oh, that was amazing. So the first time we're shooting at Staples Center courtside, Kobe was hurt. I mentioned we shot twice.

He was always hurt. He was out for the year. His Achilles, right? He had a leg injury. Yeah. So we get the Staples Center at like 4 p.m. They barely want us there at this point. They're giving us very minimal cameras or whatever,

but we have four amazing court side seats. So we're there rehearsing at 4 p.m. Just to say like where the camera is going to be here. So you're here. He's giving us a rundown. Kobe comes out from the back in like just sweats and he's going to get some shots off. He's on one leg. Just him.

and us. He's shooting. Now, of course, we all stop what we're doing. And I'm sure, he kind of comes over. He's like, what do you guys do?

Like, season two. No one, we didn't really pop yet. And we were like, oh, entourage is like, okay. And it's ignored us.

Just went back to shooting. This is how, what a sick athlete he is. He's still practicing. Yeah, he's got one leg and he's still practicing. He comes out to half court.

We're wrapping up. He's like, hey, with a hundred bucks a shot from half court with my left hand. One foot. With one foot.

Left hand. my right, off my back, off my good leg, left handed. We're like, done. Either way we're gonna, it's gonna be great. First shot. We took it all. First shot, he misses, but not by much. He's like, another one.

You're like, another one of them scared the best. Misses, but it's like he's all over it. He's dialed in. Third, fourth, fifth shot. Never makes it. And not only does he not make it, just leaves. Doesn't say like that was fun.

Doesn't give us any money. That's awesome. So we're like, either way, And he stuck us with the bill. Stuff us with the money, but it's still a great story. Now we're filming, okay? Kobe's not playing. So at some point in a time out, an athletic trainer comes up to the five of us

and peels off $100 bills. In the middle of the game, this is from Kobe. And breaks us off $100. Oh, I had that tucked in. You had the $100 bills still? Is it gone? Rainy day, something, you know, emergency fun. Did he ever make?

He never made the show, did he? So he was supposed to, it's ironic. Kobe was supposed to have a cameo, which he didn't do. because I think he was in season. And then we ended up getting someone. It's become one of the most iconic memes from the show. Kobe was supposed to do the 50 cent cameo. My character, I'm having like this crisis of,

oh, I'm not doing anything with my life. Vince buys me a Ferrari. Jamie Lynn buys me a Porsche. I'm driving around the Ferrari and Beverly, like, 50 cent rolls up to me and is like, you look good. And it's a famous meme because he smiles and just drives off. It's on the internet every day.

But that was initially written for Kobe. but I think he was in season. And he was like, I have the script still where it says Kobe Bryant pulls up the tunnel. That's cool. But Kobe in season, you're just not getting to him like that. That was never going to happen.

And it worked out because the 50 meme is one of my favorite things. I also remember, you know, we have the director of this episode. This was Julian. I remember this. And he's English, right? And he's a fanatical soccer, football fan.

Fanatical. But it doesn't know anything about it. And he's like, hey, you're mates. Like, we're just not looking at him. Oh, Kobe, you're talking about, yeah. He's like telling us all this stuff, but we're just all looking through him.

And I'm like, buddy, this is like, you know, that I'm trying to come up with something. Michael Jordan. He had no clue who Kobe was. Whatever it was at the time. I was like trying to come up with an analogy player. Out of the way. Like, dude, this is a big one.

Yeah, he was trying to get us refocus. He didn't really understand who it was. We're not shooting until Kobe's done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With whatever he's doing. What made Kobe just Kobe? Kobe, because every time we have someone that played basketball, I always ask the same question, like, what made him so unique, what made him so different? I often feel like he is almost

underrated when you look at like the Mount Rushmore of players, for whatever reason this generation, just they go to LeBron and all these other guys. Just Kobe Bryant, how would you kind of describe playing with him watching him play? Probably the toughest challenge for me ever in basketball. him and AI 1A, 1B Kobe was really strong, underrated strong.

You had to be really physical with him. The more you were physical with him, the more he fed off that, though. Had the ultimate green light. So, you know, really not to what you can do with him with his skill set along with having the green light, right? But more than anything, I think, is mentality.

You got a mentality to destroy you. which I appreciated it because I had the same mentality. And so, you know, his ability to be completely obsessed with the game, a basketball, and you felt that when you played against him. And I had the privilege of being on the Olympic team with him in 08, but we had a three-year process before that. So we spent a lot of time with each other between 05 and 08 leading up to the Olympics and got a chance to see his work ethic, got a chance to feel him and practice.

Him and I used to go have our own training sessions. by ourselves, actually. So I had the privilege of seeing him of close beyond how most was able to see him. And what an incredible athlete, what an incredible mindset. That to me marks him more than anything. Obviously, when Kobe had 81, none of it worked.

Well, what do you, I mean, you remember about that game? I mean, you were on the Raptors' staff. Yes, I can say it now because it's been, you know, almost 20 years. But the reason I say that is deep down, like, and it was a regular season game. I mean, you're almost like, the game starts. It's kind of like, remember Rocky 5 when he was fighting the Russian and everybody was hating on Rocky?

And at the end, everybody was cheering. The crowd turned. Yeah, you were just a fan watching Kobe. So, exactly. So it was in L.A. They obviously cheering, but by the, like, when it got to 80, you were kind of like, oh, maybe he's going to get 100. This kind of, you know. And I know, I know Jalen Rose and those guys that were defending him in Mopeat,

they probably wanted no part of it. But the game plan was kind of like what we talked about. What do you want to do? Do you want to make somebody else be like, you know what? We're going to force it to be tough on Kobe, make him score. Well, he did. I don't care if he scores 80. Let me make it tough.

Well, okay. And you know what? I shouldn't say this because this is another bad reflection. Not only as I was part of when Kobe got 81, I was also on the bench with Sacramento when Clay got 37 in the third on like seven dribbles. So thank God. You don't want to hire me as your damn good. Yeah, but you're not, I mean, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, yeah, that game. I.

My former co-star and good buddy, Kevin Connolly on Entourage, I'll never forget that day he got invited for like, hey, got court side at the Lakers, like, oh, are they playing the raptors. he passed on the game and went to go see some three-hour movie at the Beverly Theater and he literally skipped court sides for the Kobe 81. And he's a massive Laker guy. I don't think I could ever live that down if I knew I could have been in the building for that. Well, and it's going to live forever too because I think on one of the Kobe statues outside of, you know, crypto or whatever, they've got the score sheet,

literally the score sheet on the side of the statue. I mean, he's my all-time favorite athlete. I got his jersey right here. He signed for me. Rest and peace, man. He's my favorite athlete of all time. I mean, just, God, what a treat to be able to watch him put up 80 on your team, though. You know what's funny, Matt?

You're absolutely right. And what you love about Kobe? I mean, there's many things, but Kobe wasn't imposingly big. You know what I mean? It's not like, I mean, Shaq and not take anything away from those guys. Like, I mean, Shaq is seven foot, whatever. LeBron is literally 6'8. When he was in his prime, he was 260, just, you know, so those guys, and again, they're very, very steel.

But Kobe, you just look, and Kobe was like a normal dude, but just unreal, unbelievable competitor. And, you know, just one of those guys that, like you talk about, and there's very few of them that have it. I do believe Anthony's one of those guys, and there's a couple of them. But at any given moment, they're going to, they can take over a game. They're going to make a shot. big moments and all this year. You're never too far ahead against them. And it's, he was impressive.

Where do you, I don't want to get into the list because you're coaching all this stuff, but where do you rank him all time as far as? Because I put him too behind MJ, people have LeBron, all that. Is he up there for you? You've seen a lot of great players. Yeah, Kobe. Yeah, I mean, Toby's, Kobe would be two or three. I mean, Michael, I mean, because I was young, would be one for me.

And I think the reason why, again, not to get into it a whole lot, but I think Michael, too, is just the greatest competitor we've, that's ever been around and just, you know, in his record of finals, this and that. But, and then Kobe and LeBron, to me are two and three. And, I mean, yeah. And again, I think a lot of it is just like the way Kobe was. Like, you know, I think nowadays, I think we're all throwbacks a little bit in the sense that he didn't, he was never buddies with guys.

You know what I'm saying? He wasn't worried about being buddies or friends. I love that about him. Yeah, like the Olympic Games when he ran through his teammate Gasol. That gave me chills in the dock. Like Pat Riley back in the day, like you would get fined if you were on the Knicks team and help another opposing player up, you know, like that type of stuff. Or dapping guys up before the game and still smiling and, you know,

and I understand it a little bit more, but just, I mean, that's the ultimate competitor and the work ethic, obviously, that, you know, is unprecedented, if you will, as Chris Bosch talks about that. He said that he was on that first Olympic team, and they talk about Kobe, obviously, coming back, and he's already worked out twice. But Kevin Durant said the one thing, and Jay Triano was a former head coach of the Raptors,

was an assistant with them. He said he'll never forget. They were having a night shooting in Vegas, and two guys were there. KD and Kobe were on the bus. And KD was shooting at one in and Kobe at the other. And I think KD, to that point, It was like I looked down and I saw the work that he was putting in and I was just, you know, and Katie was still doing extra work like getting his shots and all this, but watch the workout and the effort and the things that Kobe was doing and kind of changed his whole mindset of this explains a lot. So pretty cool.

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Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA. First of all, so immediately, obviously, he beat, you know, broke Kobe Bryant's 81 point record when he played in the Raptors. And I remember where I was for that. I was at Shellbacks and had a page at the bar when he beat that. We all, like, were just watching on this little screen in the corner when he got 81. I got a text from my oldest last night.

Dad, Bam's got 77s. So I was like, oh, shit. So I couldn't even turn it on because I'm on the West Coast, whatever was it on TV. And it was like two minutes left. And then you start to look at the box hard. And I am not, listen, 83 points. I don't care how you do it.

It's pretty impressive. But you're not that impressed with this performance of 83 points. No, no, no. I'm impressed. When I'm impressed with the performance, I'm not impressed with like the final number. Because I think, you know. Because he took 43.

Well, the 40 free throws. And then like, look, the wizards who like, in a way, shame on you for the, the poor defense for so long. But then they did try to foul him. They fouled other teammates. They were trying to stop him. They just didn't have the wherewithal to do it.

So I think the performance is unbelievable. I don't think like an NBA player even go into like, you know, Rucker Park or whatever, that's like some accomplishment. So to do that in an NBA game is crazy. But I'm less impressed with the final number because of the 40 free throws. And his, the heat, but, you know, they got him. so many extra possessions. It became, but it was a fun chase.

The moment was like, can he actually do this now that they're game planning for him? So I appreciate all of it. Shout out, 83 points is ridiculous, but I still think Kobe had 6.6, his shot selection. He didn't have that many free throws. I think he had half the amount of free throws. And from what I remember, at least, like, they were playing pretty hard defense on him. And he was just in an absolute zone on a shooting team. I'm not old-headed this and I'm not taken away from Bam.

It's awesome. No, and it's a great moment. I don't, for me, it's not quite aware, was I when? Shout out to Asia Wilson getting on the podium with him last. That was cool, though, that like, she happened to be in the crowd that night. So here's my final question on the matter before we get to some fun expansion stuff. Will this be a throwback we are talking about on this show 10 years from now? Will we do the remember when?

Will this be a memorable throwback moment, BAM's 83 points? I mean, you got Will at 100, BAM at 83 and Kobe at 8. Because we always do the Kobe anniversary, always will. There's going to be a BAM, out of bio, anniversary of 83 points. Where were you then? Where were you, sitting, bathing my boys when my oldest son texts me. He had 77. That's where I was.

What do you remember going into that, like, game five down 3-1? Lakers trying to close it. Now, I'm going to tell you the truth. If you look at the series, we went to L.A., you know, you got to play 2, 2,1-1. We split. in LA. We got our brains beat in game first. In game one, I'm sorry.

Game two, we beat them. So we're going back to Portland with all the momentum. Like, oh, we got two games at home. We're going at least, we got to get two of them. We're going to go three of one. And we're confident. We saw the looks on their face. We knew the matchups was there in our favor.

We knew we were deeper. We knew we had better players respectfully as a whole. As a whole. So we was like, okay, one of them going to get their point, Shack or Kobe. It is what it is. but we can't let the others. So that was the game plan.

And when we went to game two and, I'm sorry, three and four back in Portland, I think we might have let our guards down a little bit, a little more cocky because we had the home court advantage. The fans were great. And they snuck us in those two games. So you think the morale would be down? It wasn't. Guys were still like, man, we gave them a gift.

Man, we're going to go to L.A. and whooped them. We're going to go back home and whoop them again. And then we're going to go win game seven. So that was the mindset. And you basically did it. You basically did that very thing. Yeah. Well, you know, everybody would say that in that situation,

if we do this, we can do that. You know, you're thinking of the best case. So, you know, everybody threw it out there. And, you know, you don't know if it's going to happen, but it happened. And it was happening perfectly until for, so it worked well in game five, game six, and game seven for three quarters. And then after that, you know, the deboppel, 13 missed shots in a row, or whatever the case may be.

But it was no wavering on the fact that we still, to this day, for like we were a better team, and they were probably tell you to say. all people remember and you see the highlight and by the way i don't watch the last five minutes of our u sce texas national championship game with bince young just look at i'm the same way man it just it makes me it makes me shed a tear i'm like i got to turn it off because i know unfortunately i know what happens i know what happened but like game seven you only really see that the lob right from coby to shack but yeah i forgot the 13 missed shots because i'm watching it the doc and i'm like dude you're up 13 or 15 going into the four

you have the game one and then all of a sudden it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just like luck you know literally lakers got lucky and i'll be the first to say that i wanted to ask you about coby because i think you know for me personally like i think he's one of i think he's probably number two behind mj and you know there's all these goat conversations lebron all these people but like you played against him you saw him you saw him throughout his his prime in those years what are your thoughts on coby on where he stands as as one of the greatest of all time. Because I do think sometimes he's he almost looked at as underrated sometimes

you know with the way they view you know. I don't know. I just feel like these young kids now are like oh, like he's he's never really in that conversation sometimes, you know. And it sucks. It sucks. You know, I argue with my kids and I argue with these younger kids that I coached and I'll be like, fam,

y'all say that, but you guys never had to look across from him knowing that you got to guard him on NBC at noon where everybody's watching across the country. Like, you don't know what that feels like. I do, but, you know, honestly, man, Cole, you know, rest in peace to cold.

Yeah. I'm just so thankful for what he brought to the game, the mindset he brought to the game, and the mama mentality is real. You know, people don't truly understand Kobe had no friends in terms of outsiders. If you were close to Kobe, you were special. You, like, every time I talk to Kobe,

off the court, it was like an interviewer. You know, our young fellow, you know, and they keep moving around. It was never like he'd trying to be my friend. He was like, and then you hear about the work ethic, you hear about the stories, and then you get on the court, and he's embarrassing you. Like, I just remember I thought I was one of the best defenders in the history of defense, just mentally because you try to be, you know, you try to have confidence in yourself.

I just watch this 6-6 man when he don't got big hands. He can't grip the ball. He's not more athletic than me. He's not overly faster to me, but just the skill set and the will that he had, it was unmatched. And I played against Jordan, older Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, And just that COVID, it was just amazing to watch as a fan of his and the competitor gets him to see if I could even match up.

And he was younger to me in age, but I was just like, man, this guy is just so mature and ahead of his time, the way he goes about the game, the way he, you know, holds people accountable to how they even address him. You know, Kobe don't even take no mess on how you even address him. So I just really appreciated him for the game. And I feel like it's dumb for kids to really, really overlook Kobe in any type of goal conversation because his game was special and he didn't have any

distinct advantages like bronze six nine two fifty he got all you know yeah michael jordan's uber athletic had these big hands you know all this this stuff of coby was just a six six skinny kid with a crazy crazy crazy crazy skill set where do you rand where do you put uh coby in that conversation because i feel like i'm i'm like mj coby and lebron is great clearly what he's been able to do but I don't know if Kobe doesn't get enough credit or he does get, because I've seen a lot of guys come on and say Kobe was the top, is closest to MJ than anybody. And it has some people who don't even have him in his top 10.

That's crazy. You played him. I mean, that was the same era. Like, where does he stack up against basically those two guys, right? That's the debate. To me, he's number two. That's my opinion. To me, he's red behind MJ, you know,

for what he's done to the game. And like you said, just a second ago, he's the closest thing to, to MJ. He's the closer things to it. Just his work ethic, the way he puts him to the game, you know,

the way he studied the game, student of the game, always learning. Like MJ said, he always used to call him and ask some questions, trying to get better. And just what he's done for the game

and what he's done during his time of playing, I mean, what can you really say, for somebody to say that he's not in their top 10? That's crazy. I don't know who. Jerry barely had him in the top five. That's not true.

Yes, it is. You relaxed. You said that. I'm just older than you, so I remember Magic and Bird a little more than you because I'm older. But like, I feel like if you look at Jordan, Kobe, like Tiger and even. Oh, you're going all sports now. No, I'm just, I'm just thinking. And LeBron, and this isn't even a slap.

Like, we always talk about the killer instinct and like the greatest, greatest, greatest, greatest athletes. Like those four. in my opinion or like the greatest athletes. And like I put Serena up there and you, Gretzky, like you have all these guys. But like that killer instinct is just like either half. Like Tom Brady played to 45 and like people could say he was, I train with him. People would say, oh, he wasn't great athlete. He was an absolute just psychopath when it came to like, I want to be the best of all time.

That's to me what Kobe was. You know, it's like he was a psychopath. And you hear stories talking about like the guys that played with him and his work ethic and all that. I was like, to me, he's, yeah, MJ is one A and he's one B. It's not even close. I totally agree with you. That L.S.M.A. Roots, too. This is an apology message from Uncrustibles.

They made the perfect pillowy soft game day snack and then also made you wait up to an hour to eat it. Maybe you've seen the thaw hack videos going around. People so desperate to thaw out their uncrustables, they wedged them in their armpit to warm up under their pillows. The other day, my son tucked one of his uncrustibles into one of my old hand warmers for my playing days. I don't even know where he found that thing. My boys have their own methods.

I don't even know what they're doing. I just, I hear them in the kitchen. And then I see them later and they're crushing one of their favorite uncrustables. They even have their baby brother in the mix. I think they put one under like the playpen to thawed out the other day. You shouldn't have to do all that, Jerry. And now you don't have to because now you can keep uncrossable sandwiches in the fridge. So they're ready to enjoy right when that craving hits.

There's no more wait time. Personally, I can say I accept their apology because when it's game time for me and my family and we're running out the door, I grab an uncrustable straight from our fridge. The 2026 Chevrolet Tracks is the stylish SUV for those on the move. And with the standard Chevy safety assist package, you have the backup to handle every turn with confidence.

The 26 tracks. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca. All right, it's time now for game-changing decisions presented by NHTSA. Drunk driving changes your world. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by NHTSA. So Matt, I'm curious for you, game-changing decisions.

When you made the decision to start taking football serious? Because I know you played many sports. Yeah, it was a pivotal time. I was, a lot of people know this, but I was a baseball first guy through and through. I wasn't the kid that grew up playing football, didn't eat, sleep, breathe football.

The moment that I really decided to give football a shot and realize that I probably had an opportunity to be pretty good was the moment I got hurt and the moment I had surgery on my shoulder pitching. And I say that because when I healed up from my shoulder and I couldn't pitch anymore, I had to make the decision to either go back to baseball and pitch or play football. I had played one or I had played a year of football at that point, tackle, and I was pretty good playing quarterback. So that was the moment where now I wasn't thinking ahead. I didn't realize I'd be, you know, make the NFL and all that. But that was the moment where I said, I'm too afraid to go back to baseball.

I'm going to play football and give this a shot. And then the other big time sort of game changing moment was I'll never forget my junior year. I had a good summer and I ended up starting some games my junior year. and USC was the first team to offer me a scholarship and really the first team to sort of recruit me sort of out of nowhere. I remember Kennedy Pola, love him. He was at one of my games, had no clue. And I remember him, he said he called the coach. He said, hey, we got to offer this kid.

This kid's going to have a chance to be really good. And it was like super raw. So that was the moment, the moment I got injured was like football is my sport. The moment that USC started recruiting me was where I realized that I could really maybe, you know, get a scholarship to play football in college. Well, as game-changing decisions go, Matt Leiner,

I think you made an absolute game-changer of a decision. Isn't it crazy how? It all just, I always tell this, like everyone's path is so different. You never know. I mean, I was, dude, I was, I was going to buy my parents. I ended up buying my parents a house, but it was going to be because I was pitching in the big leagues.

I was 6'5 and I was lefty and I was throwing 95 and this and that. and sure enough, it ended up being in the NFL, which is wild. You would have got all sorts of Randy Johnson comparisons. Not quite 6-11, but the mid-unit. The mid-unit. Yeah, probably more a little Clayton Kirshah. You know, but touch in mid-90s, nice little curveball. Kirshah 6-5, 6-4?

I know he was a big boy. He's a big dude. When you decided to take acting serious, when was that for you? You know, I often wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat that I didn't make this decision and I just woke up like, oh, none of that ever happened. Like, this has all been a dream. It happened. For me, I started acting in college in New York. A professor thought I was okay and really tried encouraging me to take it seriously. I did this kind of play where a bunch of showcase where a bunch of agents and managers were at. And afterward, they said, you know, you should move to L.A.

We could do something with you. So I flew out to L.A. for a visit. And I met with all these agents and managers. This is 1999. And I really clicked with one. And she said, yeah, if you move out here, I think we could do a lot with you. And I remember flying home, I think it was like my third time ever on a plane and telling my mom, you know, I'm moving to L.A. And I don't think she believed me. And I'd saved up a bunch of money. I set my date January 10th, 2000. I'm leaving. All my boys in Brooklyn were like, no way you're moving to L.A. You'll be back in a week. And saved up my money. And I remember my mom up until the point where she dropped me at the airport when I was getting out. She did not believe I was going.

And I walked out and I got on that plane. Matt, I knew one person in L.A. I knew one person from New York had already moved out there. And I remember touching down at the airport and that person lived in Burbank. I got on the Super Shuttle with my bags from L.A.X. Over the Burbank, which took two hours, by the way. And I thought, when I got to Burbank, I'm like, this is Hollywood. I looked around.

So that's pretty cool, but I'm not overly impressed. And then, yeah, I often think about what would have happened if I never took the shot and made that game change decision and moved to L.A. From when you got off that plane and went to Burbank to the first gig you booked was how long? It was about six months. But I remember that the next day,

I touched down in L.A., got to Burbank. The very next day I was auditioning for a pilot that Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks were producing. And I read in front of them, them the next day. This was the time period of like, you know, tail end of like Dawson's Creek and scream. And so like if you were 18, 19 years old, they were just trying, there was so many parts. Yeah. There was nothing for 30 year olds at that time period. So, you know, and yeah, my buddy ended up being, I auditioned for band

a brother. I just went in. I had 30 auditions in the first week. So, uh, yeah, I often wake up at night scared that I did not make that game changing decision and move to L.A. And I, I don't even know what the alternative would have been. So, worked out. We're glad you did, buddy. Yes. And it led us to this friendship. Because it's the Lakers, and we're all talking about it,

we're going to go our all-time Lakers duo in dynamic duos. I'm going to clear the floor for you because I have a few candidates here. But I feel like yours is the one that matters because you're a bigger fan. Although L.A. for 20 years, I've been around the Lakers. This is not even as a Laker fan. my dad would disagree because my dad my dad would be more old school that's for sure let me just set the table really quick outside of the celtics i wouldn't even maybe that maybe the nicks maybe the nicks when you look at the lakers and you look at this and you go back and you just say duos or players

it is unbelievable the amount of hall of famers and just the greatest of all time. If you go top 25 greatest NBA players of all time, put LeBron in that list, right? If you consider him a Laker, all that. Luca, again, obviously nowadays, these guys bounce around. Supports Dewey. They probably have 10 dudes.

It supports what Dewey was saying. They always have the guy. They always have it. So my point is when you do some of this and you can talk about like Jerry West and Baylor and Wilts, Hamerlin back in the day. That's way before my time. And not enough rings, in my opinion. Not enough rings. It's, it's Kobe and Shaq. You would probably agree, considering we are in the same era of watching basketball.

Arguably, the greatest duo of all time. Jordan Pippen is the one, arguably. And I was looking this up. I remember Clears Day, like the early 2000s. The last major sports team, the three-peat. The Chief's going for that this weekend. the most dominant player of all time and Shaquille O'Neal. In my opinion, 1A, 1B to Jordan, Kobe Bryant. I think he's more in the argument than LeBron is a greatest player of all time.

We'll have to have an episode on that one day. I like that. We'll do an episode on that. The whole goat, I don't know. I look at it, the whole goat talk is another thing. It's so personal. Honestly, it's your personal opinion. I think it's so old and all that.

LeBron is great. LeBron, maybe the greatest athlete of all time, like what he's been able to do. Tom Brady, I was saying, like, Tom Brady played at 45 in the NFL. It's like ridiculous. I'm just saying the closest thing to Jordan is Kobe Bryant. It's not even close. It's the type of game, the killer, all of that. Anyway, I was, I was, I remember a lot of this Clear's Day because I was 18, 19 years old, diehard Laker fan watched every playoff game and they won the three Pete. And then I started thinking like, man, what if, right? That was the whole thing. And that's what Shaq would say now. And obviously Kobe's not with us anymore, which is just still unfathomable to even think that happened. The riff and the feud and all the little things that happened, and I was looking it up and

Phil Jackson got, like, find them because they were talking shit to each other. There was just so many different things. I'm like, man, if they would have put their egos aside, they probably, I mean, that's one of those things. There wasn't a if. They would have won two or three more championship. They probably get five or, they definitely get five or six. They would definitely get one or two more.

and they won three. I mean, Kobe got to five without Shaq. And Shaq got the one with DeWade in Miami. So to me, maybe the greatest duo of all time. They're the most dominant player of all time. Arguably the greatest of all time in the conversation of the top three, in my opinion. And yeah, I mean, when I think of Lakers, I think I do think of Magic and Kareem. I think that's the other one.

They got five of them things. They got five of those things. They're ridiculous. But it's Kobe and Shaq. man. It is Kobe. I agree. So I'm not going to really one up. All I'll say is, though, a very important one that came along that does almost feel similar to this, although he was not nearly as good or famous like box office globally as Luca. The Lakers getting pal. Yeah. Another player, no one knew was available. No one. The trade happened. And GMs were like,

wait a minute. Gassal's, what do you mean? Like, what happened? I, When Shaq left, we were miserable. I remember those teams. Three or four years, just miserable. You had, we drafted, Chris Mim was a starting center. There's no disrespect to anybody, but we just didn't have any players. And in the Shaq trade, we got Lamar Odom. We got a couple guys, but we just, like, it just never materialized.

And it was just Kobe, he was like, I think he got to the playoffs a couple times, but we just weren't very good. And that was when we lost, I think we lost a thing, we lost to Phoenix Sons in that because I was in Arizona. I remember, I think we lost the Phoenix when they had the, they were running and gun and they had Marion and Amari Stademeyer and Steve Nash. But then we got Powell. And I remember Kobe was like Kobe needed a big because that was the whole triangle offense.

And they needed a big and Powell, gosh, I mean, Hall of Famer, one of the more underrated players of all the time. Like, Powell was unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Perfect player for Kobe. Perfect player too. And then they had the right pieces around them.

you had the right pieces around them and they won, yeah, what, two more? Two more, Rick Fah, yeah. Odom, big Odom. So you got Shaq and Kobe? I do only because I witnessed it, but I, you know. Magic and Cream too.

I started, I'm a little older than you, so I do remember the very, very tail end of Magic and Kareem and Showtime. But the first real finals that I watched where I was like so dialed in was Lakers Bulls with Magic and no Kareem. So, you know, my dad, my dad always says that says, would your dad say magic and Kareem? Oh, for sure. Just like she'd say, Mohamed, he'd probably be right in a lot of circles.

But we would always, we would always say this. I said, this whole conversation is that, I said, pop, magic, you think magic's going to guard Kobe? Magic can't guard Kobe. And he's like, you think Kobe could guard magic? Magic 6-9. He'll post him up. I said, okay. Well, Kobe 6-6. And then I said, you think Shaq, you think Kareem is going to be able to, you know, box out Shaq? He's like, you think Shaq's going to block Kareem Sky Hook? What is he going to do with that? Sky. That's a great conversation. I said, pop. I said, Kareem, you could put Kareem as the greatest player of all time, too.

I mean, he was the points. Like, Kareem is unbelievable, right? And the sky hook was unblockable. But Kareem was 7-2, 7-1, 200 pounds. Shaq was 7-1, 320 pounds, and in his prime, like, you can't stop him. You could not stop him. And you can't tell me Kareem was keeping him out of the low post. No one was.

No one was.